An Arizona I-A-Ber Responds To Arizona Link [Pic]

Submitted by: fancylad 7 years ago in

Monday, I-A-B posted AZ"s governor"s speech about the bill that lets cops search possible illegals. An I-A-Ber writes in
There are 346 comments:
Female 635
if my grandpa hadn`t hidden in that truck that delivered oranges the rich guys over here wouldn`t have had a million dollar house to live in

D:<
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Male 893
@cuthere2
[quote]Also, you seem to have failed economics 101 - You call being in this country illegally victomless, yet you ignore (Yet again) the financial impact this has on Citizens[/quote]
Looks like someone failed debating 101. Know your opponent. I already told you this, but I guess I`ll say it again because you brought it up again. (maybe you forgot, maybe you`re stupid) I`m an anarchist.

Do anarchists advocate taxes?
No.

Do anarchists advocate citizenship?
No.

So why are you using this argument against me? Sure it can work against some stupid liberal, but I`m not some stupid liberal.
If there was no citizenship or taxes this wouldn`t be a problem in the first place now would it.

I already told you this in my comment on "May 01, 2010 1:54:52 PM".
[quote]SIGH - Honestly. Please, please, PLEASE try to not just read, but actually COMPREHEND what is being said.[/quote]
I can taste the irony.
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Male 893
@cuthere2

[quote]If bypassing our countries laws and sneaking into our country means that individuals cannot be properly screened, and thus murders, rapists, etc. are stealing into our country, it is no longer a victimless crime.[/quote]

A mexican kills another mexican in Mexico. That`s a crime with a victim. That same killers sneaks in America. That`s still a victimless crime despite the fact that he`s a killer.

[quote]If we had secured boarders, and made it more difficult for criminals to get in, then we`d have lower crime rates now wouldn`t we? Not victomless.[/quote]

Yeah, you could totally argue that, but you can`t say that we should socialize protection because socialism sucks and doesn`t work.
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Male 322
Also, you seem to have failed economics 101 - You call being in this country illegally victomless, yet you ignore (Yet again) the financial impact this has on Citizens. Millions of people sneaking over, taking advantage of our tax payer funded services? Many are paid under the table, so they pay no taxes.

Hmmmm - Let`s see:

Millions taking, taking, taking - whilst not paying into the system = not good. (Just keeping it simple for ya bud)

Victims - Crushing financial burdens supporting dozens of programs that are being abused by the entitlement mentality that is often carried over by these criminals.

So we have now identified:

Sex crimes - Theft - Violence - Gang violence - Drugs - Increased tax burdens on law abiding citizens.

All of this could be greatly minimized by proper screening and security.
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Male 322
SIGH - Honestly. Please, please, PLEASE try to not just read, but actually COMPREHEND what is being said. I cannot imagine why I would need to explain such a blatantly obvious statement as "you call it a victimless crime".

Guess I`ll have to get used to spelling things out for you:

- You claimed that being here illegally is a victimless crime. Remember that? Good job, let`s continue whilst we have momentum.

If bypassing our countries laws and sneaking into our country means that individuals cannot be properly screened, and thus murders, rapists, etc. are stealing into our country, it is no longer a victimless crime.

You could argue that many are not criminals, and thus it`s victimless, but hey, this is the real world Anarchist, and criminals are a fact of life.

If we had secured boarders, and made it more difficult for criminals to get in, then we`d have lower crime rates now wouldn`t we? Not victomless.
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Male 893
@cuthere2

[quote]See, you call it a victimless crime, yet ignore the fact that the REASON for the process is to filter out the criminals. 2,700 murders committed last year by illegals, and nearly 200,000 rapes were victimless?[/quote]

Point to me the comment were I said rape was a victimless crime.

[quote]If 70% of those individuals were former criminals and would have been filtered out through proper channels, then I guess it`s not a victimless crime afterall when you dodge the legal channels.[/quote]

No, it`s STILL victimless to cross the boarder and be here. It`s NOT victimless to have committed something like murder in Mexico and hide here.
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Male 893
@cuthere2

[quote]I also find it funny that you are so naive as to claim "if they rape someone, just arrest them."[/quote]

I did NOT say that. I said "If they steal from someone then arrest them." If I had said what you claimed I had said "if they rape someone, just arrest them." then that would imply that I think it`s simply. I don`t think that. STOP DELIBERATELY MISREPRESENTING ME!!!

[quote] So the problem is, with all these people sneaking in illegally, we don`t have the capability to filter out the hardened criminals. Yet you present "just being here" as a victimless crime. Wow, what a deceptive spin on words, as no one claimed "just being here" is a crime. Now who is mis-representing Anarchist?[/quote]

I would love to here your logic behind coming over here and at the same time not being here.

Besides,

-Breaking our laws by entering illegally = Victimless, therefore NOT bad
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Male 893
@cuthere

[quote]I never commented on your stance of prosecuting.[/quote]

Then why do you keep bring up things like rape if it is so obvious that I don`t advocate rapists not being persecuted?

[quote]I argued against your ludicrous claim that desperation causes crimes, and that giving jobs to these people would be some sort of workable solution.[/quote]

I AM TALKING TO A WALL AND HERE IS PROOF!
Read my comment at "May 01, 2010 8:26:56 PM" where I address the difference between give and allow, but since you`re a wall you continue to use the word give.

[quote]Yet your vague assumption completely ignored the hundreds of thousands of victims of crimes that have nothing to do with desperation. Shall I simplify this further for you, or do you get it now? [/quote]

Crimes like theft are usually the act of desperation. The fact that some crimes are not cause by desperation is irrelevant.
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Male 322
So the problem is, with all these people sneaking in illegally, we don`t have the capability to filter out the hardened criminals. Yet you present "just being here" as a victimless crime. Wow, what a deceptive spin on words, as no one claimed "just being here" is a crime. Now who is mis-representing Anarchist?

Rather, I stated ENTERING THE COUNTRY ILLEGALLY is a crime. Here I`ll make it even easier for you:

- Immigrants following laws = Good

- Breaking our laws by entering illegally = Bad

See, you call it a victimless crime, yet ignore the fact that the REASON for the process is to filter out the criminals. 2,700 murders committed last year by illegals, and nearly 200,000 rapes were victimless? If 70% of those individuals were former criminals and would have been filtered out through proper channels, then I guess it`s not a victimless crime afterall when you dodge the legal channels.

But you never considered that did y
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Male 322

"Am I talking to a wall???"

Nope, but apparently I am, as you seem to be having extreme difficulty understanding what I just said, as you`re for all intents and purposes arguing with yourself. I never commented on your stance of prosecuting. Show me where I have.

I argued against your ludicrous claim that desperation causes crimes, and that giving jobs to these people would be some sort of workable solution.

Yet your vague assumption completely ignored the hundreds of thousands of victims of crimes that have nothing to do with desperation. Shall I simplify this further for you, or do you get it now?

I also find it funny that you are so naive as to claim "if they rape someone, just arrest them."

Huh? You think it`s that simple? Tons of criminals sticking around waiting for the police to show up. These people are protected and assisted in hiding from the cops by other illegals. The problem is a lot more difficult t
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Male 893
@cuthere2

[quote]So you assume they come here and will turn over a new leaf just because a job is now available?

Most call that delusional. VIOLENT crime is the keyword here. So what happens in a recession like this one? You claimed it was lack of jobs that was feeding these crimes. So in a recession if they couldn`t get a job we should just expect huge increases in murders and theft, etc from these illegals?[/quote]

You can expect that from both legals and illegals. I am NOT advocating that you not prosecute people that cause crimes that have a victim. I NEVER said anything like that so again I tell you, stop trying to misrepresent my position.
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Male 893
@cuthere2

[quote]I also find your statement lacking in another area. You failed to consider that close to 70% of the illegals that commit violent crimes here in the U.S. were convicted of an average of 5 or more violent crimes in Mexico BEFORE they came to the U.S.[/quote]

If they committed a crime before they came here than by all means arrest them. I`m not arguing against that. What I am arguing (PAY ATTENTION) is that the mere act of being here should not be not be a reason to persecute these people. I am also saying that if they were allowed in the white market (like any other legal person) they would be better able to enforce contracts as oppose to using violence in the black market.
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Male 893
@cuthere2

[quote]Yet out of the other side of your mouth, you now admit it does not cause sex crimes. Yet illegals rape more than 137,000 women each year. (Those estimates were years ago, they grow each year, and some estimated now top 200,000 for 08, and 09)
They molest tens of thousands of young children, etc. So if these types of crimes are NOT impacted by jobs, or no jobs, then your statement really doesn`t solve the problem now does it?[/quote]


Am I talking to a wall??? For the second time I tell you, just because I advocate people be free for committing victimless crimes does NOT mean that I advocate people be free for committing real crimes that actually have victims. GET THAT TROUGH YOUR HEAD. Just being here is a victimless crime. Raping someone and theft is not.

If they rape someone then arrest them.
If they steal from someone then arrest them.
Are you deliberately trying to misrepresent me?
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Male 893
@cuthere2

[quote]Ah, so you admit that you were wrong then when you earlier claimed that if jobs were given to these illegals, then they`d be less likely to commit crimes as desperation causes crime. (A patently vague, and in this case incorrect statement)[/quote]

No, I don`t because last time I check theft was still a crime.
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Male 322
Anarchist, I also find your statement lacking in another area. You failed to consider that close to 70% of the illegals that commit violent crimes here in the U.S. were convicted of an average of 5 or more violent crimes in Mexico BEFORE they came to the U.S.

I posted that stat, and my sources in the other "Arizona" thread. Knowing this, your comment becomes even more laughable. The criminals are fleeing their country to avoid the law. So you assume they come here and will turn over a new leaf just because a job is now available?

Most call that delusional. VIOLENT crime is the keyword here. So what happens in a recession like this one? You claimed it was lack of jobs that was feeding these crimes. So in a recession if they couldn`t get a job we should just expect huge increases in murders and theft, etc from these illegals? LOL -What a poorly thought out idea. Seems your "solution" was a lame duck as you failed to consider the implications.
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Male 322
"For example, you claim "desperation causes crime" - Really? So what "desperation" is causing rapes and child molestation? Sex trafficking?


No, it`s doesn`t. Desperation causes crimes such as theft, not rape. Did I really just have to explain that??? "


Ah, so you admit that you were wrong then when you earlier claimed that if jobs were given to these illegals, then they`d be less likely to commit crimes as desperation causes crime. (A patently vague, and in this case incorrect statement)

Yet out of the other side of your mouth, you now admit it does not cause sex crimes. Yet illegals rape more than 137,000 women each year. (Those estimates were years ago, they grow each year, and some estimated now top 200,000 for 08, and 09)

They molest tens of thousands of young children, etc. So if these types of crimes are NOT impacted by jobs, or no jobs, then your statement really doesn`t solve the problem now does it?
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Male 893
@cuthere2

[quote]I suppose we should just let serial killers loose here in America too huh? [/quote]
Just because I advocate people be free for committing victimless crimes does NOT mean that I advocate people be free for committing real crimes that actually have victims.



[quote]I could chat with you about how parental abuse causes serial killers using your logic[/quote]
Make my f*cking day!
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Male 893
@cuthere2

Using your logic, you want people to steal and eat other people`s babies.

See? I can make BS claims too.
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Male 893
@cuthere2

[quote]How about vandalism, and gang violence?[/quote]

They would be less likely to commit actions that create victims if they had a stable income. So yes that too.
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Male 893
@cuthere2
[quote]Or perhaps it`s desperation for sex? I guess using your logic, it is now our responsibility to hand them over sex slaves to minimize kidnappings and rape huh?[/quote]

That’s different because the state is not stopping people who want to have sex from having sex, but it is stopping people who want to have jobs and employers who want to give jobs from conducting business. So again no, I am not advocating the state to do anything, be it give them jobs or sex slaves. Both of which is a positive action. When did I advocate a positive action??????? I am advocating that the state do nothing.

But let’s use your sex analogy. Here are the conditions that have to be meant in order to make a comparison. Two people who want to have sex should have every right to have sex. The state is not allowing people who want to have sex to have sex. This causes rape crimes to go up. This is axiomatic.
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Male 893
@cuthere2

[quote]For example, you claim "desperation causes crime" - Really? So what "desperation" is causing rapes and child molestation? Sex trafficking?[/quote]

No, it`s doesn`t. Desperation causes crimes such as theft, not rape. Did I really just have to explain that???
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Male 893
@cuthere2 May 02, 2010 5:16:26 AM

For the third time you strawman me. I never said don’t blame the criminal. I said they would be less likely to enter the black market if they would allow in the white market. If you’re in the black market the only way to enforce contracts is by violence, where as if you were in the white market you can go to a court or DRO. Do you honestly not understand this?

Where are you getting this idea that I think that people who cause other people to be victims (real criminals) to not be punished?

"May 02, 2010 5:22:36 AM"

For the second time I tell you, I’M AN ANARCHIST. If I’m against state law because I’m an anarchist then what the f*ck makes you think I advocate federal law!?!? It’s one thing to disagree with me, but it’s another to not even know my position and then claim I have some sort of double standards.
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Male 322
Answer something for me Anarchist, as you seem to have put absolutely no thought into the various facets of your argument.

For example, you claim "desperation causes crime" - Really? So what "desperation" is causing rapes and child molestation? Sex trafficking? Is it desperation for jobs?

Or perhaps it`s desperation for sex? I guess using your logic, it is now our responsibility to hand them over sex slaves to minimize kidnappings and rape huh?

How about vandalism, and gang violence? What are those individuals desperate for? Hugs?
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Male 322
How come none of the protestors, or persons on this board whining about the Arizona law has had a problem with the FEDERAL law?

In case you failed to do your research prior to complaining, here`s a list of what is handed to Immigrants straight from our government on "Your Responsiblities" (i HAVE THE SHEET RIGHT HERE)

1. Obey all state, Federal and local Laws

2. Pay Federal, State, and local income taxes

3. Register with the Selective Service (U.S. Armed Forces) If you`re a male between ages 18 and 26 (See page 11)

4. Carry proof of your permanent resident status at all times

Hmmmmm... So all this yelling of "Nazi Germany, show me your papers" and how "unfair it is I must carry proof with me" and yet all along, it`s been RIGHT THERE in the Federal law.

Double standards anyone? Scary how many people are uninformed.
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Male 322
Anarchist, so in other words, you`re willing to place teh blame anywhere other than where it belongs - THE PERSON COMMITTING THE CRIME!

I could chat with you about how parental abuse causes serial killers using your logic. I suppose we should just let serial killers loose here in America too huh? Your argument is quite amusing.

The age of blame and victims huh? No one is responsible for their own actions.
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Male 893
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Male 893
@cuthere2
Watch the last three minutes of this video. It will help you understand what causes crime. What is the free market

Let them enter the white market. If they`re in the black market, the only way to enforce contracts is by violence. Just one of many examples of how an unstable income can cause crime rates to up.
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Male 893
@cuthere2
[quote]Also, I`d like to hear the logic behind how having a job is going to make hardened criminals LESS LIKELY to rape, kill, etc. Please explain this to me. Especially since so many of the illegals are involved with drug trafficking, gangs, etc. If they have money under the table, why do they need, or want "jobs?"[/quote]

People tend to commit crimes when they’re desperate, but if they are ALLOWED to get jobs in the white market they would not be as desperate. A lot of conservatives are so brain dead. They think that most people commit crimes because they’re bad and not because they’re desperate. If you have a good income why would you risk that?
Don’t try to use laws to justify your position because laws can be unjust. For example in Nazi Germany it was the law to take away Jews. Did that justify it just because it was the law? No, I didn’t think so.
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Male 893
@cuthere2

[quote]Call it a strawman if you like, but it still shows your argument is irrelevant. LESS likely to?[/quote]

You’re worried about crime, then allow them to get jobs and help the economy. How is my argument not relevant?

[quote]So let me get this straight... They break OUR laws to get here, and we should accomodate them by giving them jobs, just to appease them so that they will be LESS LIKELY to commit crimes?[/quote]

You’re strawmanning me again! There’s a difference between give and allow. I am NOT saying that the state should give them jobs. I am saying that the state should allow them to get jobs. The state should leave them alone.
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Male 322
"but I don`t think they make any sense."

Uh, quite simple really. Surprised I`d need to explain this. Let`s put it in even simpler terms then.

Imagine that you are hosting a party. Everything is orderly, so all is well. But a small group of rowdy individuals show up and blast their music, start breaking things, vandalizing the neighborhood and the cops are called.

The cops are called 3 more times that night because the rowdy low lifes keep doing what they are told not to, and eventually the cops shut down the party for disturbing the peace.

Should you be angry at the cops for violating your rights to host a party? Would be pretty childish to be angry at the cops right? That`s exactly what you`re doing now - Seeing as how if the illegals would respect our laws, and stop with the murdering, drug dealing thieving, raping, etc. Enough is enough and now action is being taken. Yet you blame those who are responding to THEIR law breaking.
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Male 322
AnarchistGod - Call it a strawman if you like, but it still shows your argument is irrelevant. LESS likely to?

So let me get this straight... They break OUR laws to get here, and we should accomodate them by giving them jobs, just to appease them so that they will be LESS LIKELY to commit crimes?

You`re kidding right? That`s borderline my friend. Not to mention, it makes my original comment to you that much more relevant.

Also, I`d like to hear the logic behind how having a job is going to make hardened criminals LESS LIKELY to rape, kill, etc. Please explain this to me. Especially since so many of the illegals are involved with drug trafficking, gangs, etc. If they have money under the table, why do they need, or want "jobs?"
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Male 893
@cuthere2

[quote]But sure, let em work and that won`t happen right? I believe the word we`re looking for here is naive...[/quote]

That’s a strawman. I never said they won’t commit crimes if they were allowed to work. I said they would be less likely to commit crimes if they were allowed to work, which the state won’t allow.
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Male 893
@cuthere2

[quote]yet tehy still dodge taxes, take advantage of law abiding citizens who DO pay, and use up tax payer funded social services.[/quote]

Heeeeelllllllllllloooo, I’m an anarchist, why would you try to use taxes as a justification? I’m glad that they dodge taxes, good for them. No one should pay taxes. Just because I`m enslaved doesn`t mean they should be.

[quote]Illegal alliens are THREE - FIVE times more likely to commit VIOLENT crimes - Especially sex crimes such as rape, child molestation, and human trafficking. (Using children as sex slaves etc.[/quote]

As I told you, no they don’t. Even if they did, they would be less likely to commit crimes if they had a stable job, which the state won’t allow.
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Male 893
@cuthere2

[quote]Didn`t you just describe extortion? lol Either allow me to work, or else I`ll start invading homes, murdering, etc. Boy, you really thought that statement through didn`t you?[/quote]

No, it is the law that is the third party here. I never said that the workers are threatening the employer for work. I said they would be less likely to commit crimes if they were allowed to work, which the state won’t allow. Employers and employees should be able to conduct business without the state interfering.

[quote]illegal immigrants DO work[/quote]

They all work in the black market. There would be less crimes if they were allowed if the state stopped interfering and allowed them in the white market.
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Female 1,963
I`d like to argue your points cuthere, but I don`t think they make any sense.
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Male 10
You know what? Illegal immigrants don`t belong in this country. That`s what the Arizona law states. If you don`t live in Arizona, shut the hell up!! If you`re an illegal immigrant, get the hell out!! We don`t want you!! We don`t want any more dead sheriffs or border patrol. We don`t want any more shootings. You screwed things up enough.

Arizona Sheriff shot April 31st

So get your illegal immigrant families, pack up your crap, and get the hell out of here! Go make your country a better place. And if there`s anyone who doesn`t like the law or doesn`t like this rant, they can join you!! We don`t want them. As far as I`m concerned, they`re not real Americans anyway. Enough is enough.

STFU and GTFO!!
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Male 322
"it is not fair to the LEGAL immigrants. They should not have to go through any more trouble to prove that they are legally in the country than a citizen"

So you`re admitting your post is one sided, and concerned about the CONVENIENCE or lack thereof for one side, while ignoring the safety hazard, billions of dollars lost, and murdering of citizens. All because one portion of the population shouldn`t be "inconvenienced."

Seems your rants are misplaced. Ever heard of the bad apple spoiling it for the rest of the people? Shouldn`t you then be upset at the illegals who are murdering, raping, stealing, etc that are making this necessary? SHOULDN`T have to happen you`re right. Wrap your brain around the ROOT of what is making this NECESSARY - The illegals, NOT the state of AZ.

I shouldn`t have to fear for my family safety, and pay taxes towards illegals. Yet it`s forced on me by these illegals. Why aren`t these people protesting that?
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Male 322
"Didn`t you read my comment? I said they would be less likely to commit crimes if they were allowed to work. That`s why we should get rid of citizenship. Besides they don`t commit the most crime, but it`s irrelevant."


Huh? Didn`t you just describe extortion? lol Either allow me to work, or else I`ll start invading homes, murdering, etc. Boy, you really thought that statement through didn`t you?

For your information, MANY illegal immigrants DO work, yet tehy still dodge taxes, take advantage of law abiding citizens who DO pay, and use up tax payer funded social services.

In case you missedmy post earlier, Illegal alliens are THREE - FIVE times more likely to commit VIOLENT crimes - Especially sex crimes such as rape, child molestation, and human trafficking. (Using children as sex slaves etc.

But sure, let em work and that won`t happen right? I believe the word we`re looking for here is naive...
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Female 1,963
Oh and if that doesn`t work for you, how`s about a little biblical quote (hilarious coming from an atheist, I know):
"When an alien lives with you in your land, do not mistreat him. The alien living with you must be treated as one of your native-born. Love him as yourself, for you were aliens in Egypt."
Lev 19:33
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Female 1,963
Continued... "The Arizona bill would create a new misdemeanor crime for failing to have an alien registration document; allow officers to arrest anyone unable to show documents proving their legal residence in the country" link This means that they can make an arrest based on the lack of papers, not for any other crime. K?
Again, I`m not interested in protecting the rights of illegal immigrants, but the rights of legal immigrants.
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Female 1,963
Ugh, really? You think the general sentiment on IAB is liberal? Well it certainly doesn`t seem so to me.
I already spent way too long completely unproductively attempting to argue this in the original post about the bill, so I wont go over that again. All I`m going to say is that my argument is not and has never been "I want to let illegal immigrants do whatever they want". That is not what I want. I don`t even mind if illegal immigrants get deported. They have no legal right to be in the country.
HOWEVER, what I feel is the issue with this bill is that it is not fair to the LEGAL immigrants. They should not have to go through any more trouble to prove that they are legally in the country than a citizen should. And the biggest problem with the bill (and yes, I have read the relevant parts) is that you DO NOT have to commit a crime. I will quote fox news again (because that source seems to work on people who support this bill)
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Male 893
@sender02

Didn`t you read my comment? I said they would be less likely to commit crimes if they were allowed to work. That`s why we should get rid of citizenship. Besides they don`t commit the most crime, but it`s irrelevant.
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Male 188
why does my computer post everything twice?
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Male 188
Anarchistgod, Illegal immigrants DO commit the most crimes, in fact they all have perfomed at least ONE.
The same cannot be said of African Americans, Oceanbeast. They ARE criminals and do NOT deserve to be here. if they couldn`t get in legaly it is because they probably didn`t meet our criteria of not being a danger to U.S. Citizens.
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Male 188
Anarchistgod, Illegal immigrants DO commit the most crimes, in fact they all have perfomed at least ONE.
The same cannot be said of African Americans, Oceanbeast. They ARE criminals and do NOT deserve to be here. if they couldn`t get in legaly it is because they probably didn`t meet our criteria of not being a danger to U.S. Citizens.
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Female 1,264
arghhh chopped comment XD

I was saying: Also, all those drugs that cross the borders (familiar with the Zen Li Yeh Gon case?) would be monitored both ways. Trust me, there is nothing I would like more than to live in a country that is better than it is today, and that is respected for being a nation of laws. We have a looooons way to go, but hey! So do you.
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Female 1,264
>>The funniest part is how pissed off Mexico is with Arizona over this bill. After all, Mexico is much nicer to people entering their southern border illegally. Right? Right?

I am Mexican, and I have to say, I agree with the statement behind the sarcasm. I am against any kind of illegal immigration. I am not a hypocrite to say Mexicans who enter illegally the US are different to other Latin Americans who enter illegaly my country. It`s the same damn thing.

>>It`s not like we would know. No one goes into Mexico illegally. Mexico sucks. Balls.

Many US citizens come to Mexico because my government is so incredibly moronic to let anyone enter here without a damn passaport. I wish everyone was required a passaport to enter my country: we would get rid of all the American springbrakers to come here to rape and to use drugs, pedophiles, and criminals hiding from your idiotic authorities. Also, all those drugs that cross the borders (familiar with the Zen
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Male 173
I agree that immigration needs reform, BUT! that doesn`t give illegals the *RIGHT* to break the law.

just like if my gov raised taxes 300%, that doesn`t mean I can get away with it by not paying. at some point you WILL have to PAY.

Just like how law breaking illegals will have to Pay! for breaking the *LAW*.
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Male 599
Maelstrom X:
The funniest part is how pissed off Mexico is with Arizona over this bill. After all, Mexico is much nicer to people entering their southern border illegally. Right? Right?

It`s not like we would know. No one goes into Mexico illegally. Mexico sucks. Balls.
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Male 893
@strickt

There`s a demand to have portable currency that can retain its value, so in a stateless society businesses will compete to provide the best currency. There`s no reason why we would degrade to a barter system without the fed.
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Male 893
@eatmybologna

You`re article is useless because as I have stated before, even if it was true, and illegal immigrants commit more crimes on average, (which they don`t) they would be less likely be involved those activities if it was easier for them to get a job and making a living for themselves. You can make it easier for them by letting them get work.

I told you this before and all you did was show me that useless article again.
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Male 549
oh and Bush actually did try to get an immigration reform passed but it was voted down, Obama was one of the people who voted against it.

these people will not leave, they will claw and tear and cross 2 thousand borders just to get back here. the immigration system needs to be changed to be more humane, the illegals are not a major contributing factor to why citizens dont have jobs. when was the last time you saw a citizen picking beans, doing construction forbelow minimum wage, mowing a lawn for below minimum wage, these people arent here raping america, THEY ARE BEING RAPED BY AMERICA. just like the countries they came from, most hird world countries have been devastated economically and politically by American corporations that have raped the people with below human conditions and you still think they are coming over here to drat us? no they are here trying to survive something we inflicted on them. they deserve a chance to stay they are not criminals!
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Male 549
yohann - you are way off base, many studies have proven illegal immigrants do no more crimes than the rest of the population by average. as a matter of fact legal african americans are the ones clogging the prison system but i wont go there because there are tons of problems with the prison system. there are tons of problems with the immigration system. do you know how expensive it is to file for legal status? you are asking people who are literally facing certain death or a life of misery to pay their corrupt government thousands of dollars that they dont have to intercede, meanwhile the US is so inefficient it is easier to deny them legal status than it is to approve a drating visa.
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Male 184
It`s nice of you to show the opinion of the other side. It sounds scary.. Shame on us for judging before we knew the facts.
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Male 296
Obama failed to do something? What about the eight years Bush was in office and Clinton too.
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Male 1,678
I wish mexicans emigrated to Ireland, I need one to write an essay :(
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Male 2,893
Yeah!!!
screw Mexicans!(kidding)
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Female 1
When your ancestors came to the United States was it illegal to do so?
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Male 1,153
haha if iab didnt make fun of things we`d all be bored. atleast we can be entertained by your misery
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Male 432
What the hell, MrsPoods? Do you realize that your location states `eastern US` and arizona is a soutwestern state? The dumb bitch here is you.


P.S. She`s completely right. (about the whole same 200 people protesting, and the bill being GOOD. I don`t know about the rest)
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Male 1,882
The funniest part is how pissed off Mexico is with Arizona over this bill. After all, Mexico is much nicer to people entering their southern border illegally. Right? Right?
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Male 188
Wow, ive never heard an excuse like that for the fact that their`s nothing wrong with her argument
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Male 188
Wow, ive never heard an excuse like that for the fact that their`s nothing wrong with her argument
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Female 547
Bitch makes us (Arizonans) look bad. I`m not going to even highlight her stupidity; it speaks for itself.
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Female 155
oh crap thats my name (Ashley)
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Male 188
Most of the worlds countries will require immigrants, legal or illegal, to provide papers when they are pulled over or sometimes just when they buy something
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Male 3,482
Siyanor, I suppose I was in the wrong in assumption, but I wasn`t going to go back through 10 pages to find your comments.

I just assumed you were another one of those idiots making comments about how illegal immigration benefits the country somehow, and from there your comment about "fundamental laws of economics" just served to back that thought up.

I guess I have to apologize.
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Male 1,184
Altaru, did you even read any of my comments? Nothing you said the least bit relevant.

Stphn seems to believe that illegal immigrants are "well off" by being paid less than minimum wage. That is what I was talking about. I made absolutely no mention of the economic implications of immigration to the country.
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Male 3,482
[quote]If I was in Mexico illegally and was caught, do you think they`d let me stay and vote and change their national language to `English`?[/quote]

I`ve said it before. If you`re in Mexico illegally, going to jail or getting deported is the LEAST of your worries.
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Male 3,482
"You both clearly have lost some of your opportunity for education by ignoring fundamental laws of economics."

How the hell do you consider it economicaly beneficial for there to be millions of AMERICAN CITIZENS who can`t get a job because companies aren`t willing to pay them proper wages and benefits in place of some illegal immigrant who works for half the pay, and no benefits?

All this results in is a widening gap between the rich and poor, in that the rich end up paying less for their workers and make more money themselves, and the poor can`t get a job because the company would have to pay and protect them if the hired a legal citizen.

I fail to see how that benefits an economy in any way, shape, or form.

And don`t pull the whole "more people = more money being spent." More legal citizens working means more money being spent too, but you fail to notice that point, don`t you?
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Male 188
F*ck Yeah!!! I`ve never seen anyone so correct in the history of IAB!!!
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Female 4,447
The illegals that lived in the building where my first apartment was sold coke. INS came looking for them every couple of months. In a building that had 4 apartments, my roommates and I were the only non-illegals. And they rotated out constantly, always some new family member. It was godawful.
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Male 10
Illegal immigrants tend to commit the most crimes. When an immigrant can`t get a job to make money, can`t find work due to background checks, is avoiding INS like the plague, they have to make money one way or another: legal or illegal. Many are caught breaking into cars or homes to find things to pawn. On the legal side of the argument, quite a few go through neighborhoods offering their landscape services (ours from time to time). In fact, many of our neighbors hire them to do landscaping. And most of these guys are teenagers or slightly older working their hands off to get money. Legal? Maybe. I don`t know. I`ve never once seen the police pull up and ask for their ID.

If you`re in the country illegally and you`re caught, you`re going back. If I was in Mexico illegally and was caught, do you think they`d let me stay and vote and change their national language to `English`? Nooooo.
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Male 1,184
Altaru, I am not a loser. You and Stphn are. You both clearly have lost some of your opportunity for education by ignoring fundamental laws of economics.
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Female 12
Lol I love the government debate that`s taking place on IAB.
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Male 3,482
@Siyanor

Sayonara sore loser.
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Male 1,184
..............

Stphn, have you graduated from high school yet?

If not, once you do, perhaps we can have a meaningful conversation.

If you have, there`s absolutely no hope for you.
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Male 537
I too think iab is starting to sway... there was never this amount of political stuff on the site as there is now. Its really quite irritating, what happend to the internet memes and cat pictures? Dammit fancyfag, get your poo together.
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Male 8,300
Thank you so much Arizona IAB`er, for helping us understand the issue soooo much better. I have to say, I read at least the first 3 words of your email intently, before saying `Meh` and clicking `Next`.
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Male 273
PHXbunny
it was good that you got the conversation started. I totally agreed with you when you noted that IAB has started leaning to the left.

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Female 58
Thank you guys for you support and comments. I know I appreciate it and I think iab`s is loving the hits.

@bliznik

You have to be stopped for breaking a law FIRST! Only after that can they ASK you for your papers. This is not harassment.
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Male 905
nicely done PHXbunny :)
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Male 575
Silly Americans and their laws!
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Male 1,739
OK, I amend my statement, race is not always reflected in someone`s appearance. It`s not only Mexicans who will be harassed by this law. Other Mexical-looking people will likely also get harassed, regardless of race.
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Female 58
>nidonemo

I am telling the truth. It is horrible out here. And it should say that it`s 450,000 illegals out here not 50,000. My finger missed that key.

I just got home but while I was out I took a picture of a car with, "I`m mexican and I support sb1070." I`ll have to submit that as content.
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Female 269
Quote: My guess is that illegal immigrants commit less crimes because they are more worried about getting caught and deported.

Most people who "get away" with one crime (aka being in the country illegally), generally view the law with contempt or mockery, as the law didn`t stop them from the first crime. How is that deterring them from breaking it again? Illegal immigrants get caught and deported, sure... but what`s to stop them from coming back in?

Personally, kudos to the author of this note. IAB is mixing humor and politics, and that`s fine, but it`s a tough line to walk. Sites and people who try to do so most often end up either being flippant or getting serious about politics. She felt it was too flippant, so she responded with personal experience, and (most importantly) without resorting to personal attacks. Nicely done.
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Male 292
Not all Arizonans are that retarded. I promise. I live there.
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Male 9,305
"I lost interest mid-read because the font bored me D:"

Okay, I`m being serious when I say this:

If a FONT is boring you, I do believe you need to start exercising your patience. That shouldn`t be a problem.

If this person is telling the truth, the problem is much more dire than people jumping the border and sucking up unemployment. I wonder if it`s this bad in other states, or worse.
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Male 522
I see the chat in the corner! Arg hmm
...
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Female 708
Who uses that kind of font for emails any more? Looks like I`m reading a court document... I lost interest mid-read because the font bored me D:
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Male 5
@AnarchistGod

Read this and let me know when you rethink your `clouded` ideologies

Link here
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Male 343
I have the simple solution-- IF you live in the US lets spread the word to other countrys we`re having a nuclear problems and they are exploding at random times everywhere. Those "Illegal" Immigrants will poo themselves and leave! :D
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Female 434
Anyway I`m done with this topic and have already said all I can say on the subject.
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Female 434
Bliznik Actually that`s not true and technically what you said can be construed as racist. I have a friend who looks Mexican but in actuality is Argentin, My brother in law is Mexican but looks Italian and my husband is native American but looks Spanish......
Not to mention physical appearance differ greatly from a born in Mexico, illegal and born in America but with Mexican roots looks like.

If you want to make this a race issue when it is not go ahead. Just because the majority of the illegals are in fact from Mexico doesn`t mean I hate Mexicans.


If any of that made any sense????
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Male 549
your government itself is based on the Iroquois league, which later was raped by the settlers and the United States. funny how we took from the natives the best parts of their culture then chased them out of their own house, maybe thats what Americans are really scared of. America is more and more Hispanic everyday.
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Male 549
bliznik - race is a social construct, its something i think most people would agree would be best if it didnt exist. race is a physical trait, how is it ok to judge (probable cause is a form of judging culpability) someone on a physical trait.

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Male 25,416
wow, theres actual people on IAB! i thought they were all robots :)
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Male 10,440
You`re never going to stop "illegals" from crossing your border. They will keep coming no matter what if the situation in the US is better, albeit marginally, than it is in Mexico.
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Male 1,739
"IF the issue everyone is so upset about is the fact that cops can stop people based on how they look then who cares if your legal show your paperwork and be on with it."

There`s a difference between stopping someone based upon how they look and ARRESTING someone based upon how they look.

"Also they`re basing who they talk to on their appearance not their race. If the police were looking for a man with a red nose and curly hair would you shout bigotry against clowns??????"

Erm, race race is a major part of your appearance. ...and yes, if you created a LAW (not a temporary search for a murder suspect, but an actual law) that would allow police to arrest anyone with a red nose and curly hair, clowns would probably be in an uproar.

I like Altaru`s suggestion...mandatory ID cards for everyone and all police officers check for it. That`s fair, increases safety, and creates jobs and encourages people to be responsible.
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Female 434
I`m pretty sure the illegal immigrants are living quite well. It`s the poor bastard still in mexico that need a song so to speak. We should just invade mexico, make it an extension of the US. We could even create borders to add more states. This is a brilliant idea. We could make cocaine illegal and make a huge amount of money!
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Male 549
You see, most of Latinos are here because of the great inflation that was caused by American companies in Latin America. Aside from that, many are seeking a life away from the puppet democracies that were funded by the United States; places like El Salvador, Guatemala, Peru, Colombia, Nicaragua, Ecuador and Republica Dominicana, and not just Spanish-speaking countries either, but Haiti and Jamaica as well.
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Male 549
i am referring to the song by immortal technique. which speaks to those poor bastard illegal immigrants
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Female 434
The song at first may sound like it`s about a man who slept with the woman next door causing the demise of that woman`s relationship.

It`s actually a metaphor for our government "screwing us" or something like that.

I am so deep, right????


And now it is obvious that I am getting bored.
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Male 73
lol The Poverty of Philosophy was a series of letters later written into a book... Marx is not a man I or anyone else should be looking up to...
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Female 434
Well a song that always speaks to me is

Right next door by Robert Cray

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Female 434
Hahahahahahah you are hilarious. I think I am in love. The rap song????
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Male 549
not marx, immortal technique
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Female 434
No thanks. Karl Marx is not exactly someone I want to get my answers from.
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Male 549
poverty of philosophy

poverty of philosophy

poverty of philosophy

seek it and the answers will find you
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Male 73
"Strikt::: I appreciate such a hot man agreeing with me lol"

=) its hard not to when your dropping F`ing GEMS on these people!!
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Female 434
Strikt::: I appreciate such a hot man agreeing with me lol
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Female 434
Also they`re basing who they talk to on their appearance not their race. If the police were looking for a man with a red nose and curly hair would you shout bigotry against clowns??????
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Male 73
"This country is so damn focused on bigotry and racism. You know why racism still lives? Because we allow it. "

Ive said this time and time again, If the issue of race was placed on the back-burner and not in our faces 24/7 it would eventually become a non-issue you have nailed it right on the head!
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Male 3,482
[quote]If your legal...prove it and go on your way big deal.[/quote]

Exactly. And, in my opinion, people should carry a form of ID on them at all times anyway, in case of emergency.

So that ID card that the police want to take a look at to make sure you`re legal, could also help the local hospital inform your family and save your life in the event of, say, a car accident.

What say you, people who don`t think we should have to carry ID?

I know of a case where the mother of one of my friends was hit by a car at one point while walking across the street (by a drunk driver, in the middle of the f*cking day no less), and her family didn`t find out she had been killed until two weeks later because she didn`t have her ID on her at the time.

"We shouldn`t have to carry ID," eh? Say that when a member of your family dies and you don`t get the news until the police take you to a morgue to ID a body that might be theirs.
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Female 434
This country is so damn focused on bigotry and racism. You know why racism still lives? Because we allow it. We put so much importance on it. My daughter doesn`t see a difference in people that way. According to her her asian friend has pretty hair, and her black friend has pretty skin. They don`t even know what race is! Because she is growing up in a house where race is not an issue. Not a "racially sensitive" one.

It is sad that an innocent hispanic may get harassed, but this needs to get done. We need to stop worrying about the minority of legal citizens who may be bothered and lose 5 minutes of their time. It`s for the greater good.
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Male 3,482
[quote]How dare they leave their third world country. How dare they try and support their starving families on our jobs.[/quote]

How dare they mozy on in here thinking they`re gonna get a virtually free ride.

EVERY COUNTRY, EVERY GROUP OF PEOPLE, EVERY PART OF THE WORLD has faced problems, big and small, at one point or another in history.

And you know what NEVER solved those problems?

The people running away.

So for all those who`re coming here to "escape" or some BS, man the f*ck up and do something about it, instead of coming over here and relying on us to make sure the big bad people don`t get you.
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Male 73
IF the issue everyone is so upset about is the fact that cops can stop people based on how they look then who cares if your legal show your paperwork and be on with it. FREEDOM ISN`T FREE there is a price for freedom believe it or not and that price is the laws created by the governing body you belong to.
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Male 273
@ StphnHrrll

a little history on "anchor babies"
the 14th amendment was created after the civil war to allow children of slaves to become citizens.

it was not intended for illegal immigrants to come across and get a free pass by having a kid 5 minutes after crossing the boarder.

in my opinion section 1 of the 14th amendment should be done away with
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Male 1,739
Also, check out provision 11-1051 G, which allows anyone to sue police stations that aren`t harassing people <u>enough</u>. Prevailers will get attorney`s fees, which means lots of lawyers will take the case on contingency.

This will then encourage police officers to overly harass people who "look foreign" in order to protect their own a$$.

@StphnHrrll, you`re right. This is a huge problem, and needs to be taken care of. I wouldn`t mind a law that was applied to everyone equally (i.e. everyone carry an identity card, like a driver`s license, and police can always ask for it) But laws like this that are laced with words like "probable cause" and "reasonable suspicion" tend to promote bigotry.
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Male 3,482
[quote]There`s a dispute between two entities, dispute resolution organizations resolve it.[/quote]

And then charges a massive fee for the service.

You are, unfortunately, an idealist who honestly trust people to do the right thing.

But when companies are in control with NO regulation, they make the money they need, buy out the other companies, it becomes a monopoly, and from there THEY BECOME the government.

It`s half of what caused the Great Depression, in case you haven`t studied your history. Not enough regulation.

You trust that "competition" will keep prices low and quality high.

That`s not the case, unless there`s SOME governing body to regulate things.

Know why?

Because you`re dealing with PEOPLE. LIVING PEOPLE.

And no matter WHAT it is, people will find a way to f*ck up perfection, in case you haven`t noticed.

So... You`re an idealist. Which makes you an idiot, in my book.
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Female 434
Ahhhh Anchor babies. "I`m going to come to America knocked up, let them pay for the medical care associated with. Also they are going to pay for my food and housing costs and then when the baby comes we both become automatic citizens" Doesn`t that sound lovely.

Also quick question, If race shouldn`t matter then why on every form I fill out now it specifically asked if I`m hispanic or from hispanic decent. Why do they need to know this? I just started checking that box whenever I see it. lol
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Male 7,378
Carry your credentials (which is the law anyway for everyone, US citizens included) and there`s no problem.
------------
You have no idea what you`re talking about. You`re making false justifications to support an un-constitutional law.
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Male 273
@biznick

the key to the bill is right there in section B.
"For any lawful contact made by a law enforcement official"

this has nothing to do with race at all.

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Male 212
Ahh politics.
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Male 3,482
[quote]also legalization of pot could devastate cartels.[/quote]

Bullsh*t.

Maybe that would be the case if the problem was in, say, Jamaica, but most CA cartels don`t make a third of their money from pot.

It`s Cocaine and other HARD sh*t, and there are reasons that`s illegal, in case you didn`t know.

"i was illegal once, but now am a US citizen, i was given a chance and now am fully assimilated this is my country i pay taxes,"

Good for you, but how many NEVER file to become legal?

How many just stay here all their lives, and how many come over here JUST long enough to give birth so their kids can be American by birth-place?

Good for your case, you had the chance and took it. But people like YOU aren`t the issue here.

(I tried using quote this time, did it work?)
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Female 434
I will agree that this has the ability to be abused. But in this day and age police officers don`t have a very long leash. Youtube and lawsuits tend to keep cops on the politically correct side of things. Can you think of a better way to do this? Because what has been going on is not working. I read statistics somewhere that around 10,000 illegals cross into AZ a WEEK! could you imagine????
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Male 73
"I know, I can`t remember but someone ended up paying the fine for him. Poor guy. He should have shot them."

Ya he could have buried them on his land and been better off.
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Male 1,739
@Yohann, yes, we`ve read the law. Here`s the law.

The issue here is that police are allowed to arrest anyone who they have "probable cause" to suspect of being here illegally. Which essentially means, "You look different, so I`m gonna harass you." So, yes, race will be an issue unless there are some additional provisions added to the text to prevent abuse.

I`m all about penalizing illegal immigrants, but is this the right way to do it? *shrug*
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Male 73
OOOPS here it is

Link
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Female 434
I know, I can`t remember but someone ended up paying the fine for him. Poor guy. He should have shot them.
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Male 73
@StphnHrrll

Check it out he ended up losing that lawsuit and having to pay them money for this. SO FU(KING [email protected][email protected]#! Illegals trespass on his property and he has to pay them money for detaining them and turning them over to the Border Petrol
http://www.thebatt.com/2.8482/attention-u-s-citizen-do-not-defend-yourself-1.1183351
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Male 2,148
bliznik: How could this be abused by its enforcers? I`d like to hear this.
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Male 1,739
Thanks for posting this fancy. I think this is a good discussion to have. As much as I reflexively throw up in my mouth a little when I hear many Republican agendas, the right actually has some sound arguments here that need to be heard and considered.

Personally, I believe that this is an issue of a well-meant law that will likely be abused by the enforcers.
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Female 434
http://tinyurl.com/29obrmy

Remember this story???? I think Arizona needs this law.
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Male 2,148
woomanfoo: We aren`t dealing with the illegal problem on the same level as Arizona (I`m in Virginia). But you`re right, he just felt like he had to say something when he had nothing TO say.
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Female 3,574
Altaru, you need to use the quote system XD I can never read your comments lol
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Male 533
Aerophyre, I like how you`re implying that you guys are the only ones who deal with illegal immigration. Tobacco growers in Kentucky and Virginia employ illegal immigrants all the time. Corn growers in Iowa and Illinois Employ illegal immigrants all the time. It`s not just an issue in the West.
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Female 1,677
waah waah waah that`s all I see.

But I`m Canadian so my opinion literally means nothing.
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Male 3,482
"Why are people so eager to immigrate here in the first place, enough so that they`ll bypass the incredibly complex and difficult legal method and risk their own lives/livelihoods to cross the border?"

Because their country`s a sh*thole and they`re too lazy/stupid to fix their own damn problems.

Why the hell should they be allowed to run away from everything and come here?

Our country`s gone through some serious sh*t too, and we pulled through it. Hell, we had a civil war once upon a time.

And why should WE have to fix everyone else`s problems? Honestly...

It seems like the world over begs for the US`s help when things get rough, then when they`re back on they`re feet they hate us.

"If I`m illegal in Mexico, what happens to me?"

More often then not, deportation will be the least of your worries.
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Male 73
"I`m talking about if we had anarchy/capitalism instead of government."

Oh gotcha well in that case there would be no regulation of monetary funds. An anarchist state would degrade back into the barter system.
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Male 273
@ anarchistgod

ok, my bad, you`re wrong.

we should not make it easier for illegals to do the same thing that hard working Americans have to do.


I`ll tell you, it wasn`t easy for me to graduate high school, join the military, learn a trade, buy a house, get laid off, sell the house, rent an apartment.

but for illegals we should make it easier???

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Female 3,574
@strickt I`m talking about if we had anarchy/capitalism instead of government.
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Female 434
Okay this is totally going to sound racist, but bare with me. At least with males... You can totally tell the difference between an illegal and legal Mexican. They way they look, dress act. They tend to hang out in large groups of other latinos, they don`t look as healthy or clean cut as others. Not all of them do but you know what I`m talking about.
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Male 177
I find it fascinating that the people whose name tags read "Western US" (I.E: The ones that actually have to DEAL with said illegals) are universally in favor of this bill, and the ones whos tags read "Eastern US/Canada/Europe" are like "OH NOES! AMERICA IS ACTUALLY ENFORCING LAWS! THATS RACIST!"
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Male 73
"but... of it`s capitalism couldn`t someone else start making currency? And who regulates how much currency is printed? Who decides which currency is valid?"

The Federal Reserve decides when and how much to pring in the US
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Female 3,574
but... of it`s capitalism couldn`t someone else start making currency? And who regulates how much currency is printed? Who decides which currency is valid?
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Male 2,148
Paulacookie: If it solves the problem, who gives a poo about "racial profiling"? If you`re legal, you can just show your driver`s license and be on your way, right? Also, it doesn`t matter what illegal immigrant are here to do, if they wanted to be contributing members of our society, they`d just come legally. There aren`t jobs no citizen would do. That`s retarded. You know nothing about the illegal immigrant issue.
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Male 10
"Problem is the people who are illegal have an appearance that is almost universal they look latino. If you`re American of Latino descent and you live in Arizona your government to whom you pay taxes too just passed a law that allows your police to harrass you. Enjoy!"

Not without probable cause. Carry your credentials (which is the law anyway for everyone, US citizens included) and there`s no problem. They won`t just pick you out of a crowd and `harass` you. I`ve seen many police officers walk by those of Mexican descent and not say a word. They don`t question unless they have a good reason to do so. If I warrant probable cause, they`ll ask me for my ID and question me. I`ll give them their time, do what they ask, and be on my way.
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Female 434
Anarchist, even if you did leave.....; Those poor mexican victims. Well let`s just give them the papers they need to get a real job! I mean they did just sell cocaine to a middle schooler, but it was America`s fault!!
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Male 893
Capitalism is anarchy. There`s not a single difference.

Everything else is either socialized or corporatized.

All right THIS is my last post.
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Male 10
READ THE LAW!

Here`s what it does. It essentially makes being in this country illegally a crime. If someone is here illegally, they are charged, fingerprinted, and deported. But now that they have been convicted of a crime (basically trespassing), they can never gain citizenship status in the US. They can`t get a VISA, they can`t come through the border and work legally. THAT is what everyone is up in arms about. Apparently, illegals believe it should be okay to hop the fence a dozen times until they`re granted citizenship. If you`re VISA runs out, go back and apply for citizenship.

There is no `racial profiling`. It blocks those here illegally from EVER getting citizenship.
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Female 3,574
[quote]Anyway I got to go, this is my last post.[/quote]
aww but I`m interested! lol
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Male 7,378
Problem is the people who are illegal have an appearance that is almost universal they look latino. If you`re American of Latino descent and you live in Arizona your government to whom you pay taxes too just passed a law that allows your police to harrass you. Enjoy!
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Female 3,574
Oh, I was referring to if there was no government, only capitalism?
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Male 893
@ForAllThSin
[quote] @ antagonizer, oceanbeast, anarchistgod, madest, siyanor

you lose, get over it[/quote]

Funny, I don`t remember anyone calling me out when I said.

[quote]Even if it was true, and illegal immigrants commit more crimes on average, (which they don`t) they would be less likely be involved those activities if it was easier for them to get a job and making a living for themselves.[/quote]

Anyway I got to go, this is my last post.
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Female 434
I used to volunteer at a food bank. It was a small church ran food bank in a big city. It saw sometimes 200 people a day. (Which is a lot for 5-10 volunteers to handle) Majority of them were Mexicans who could not speak English. I came to care for the people who came in regularly and one who spoke English too started volunteering to help us translate. I know why they are here. Living conditions are horrible. The government does nothing to help. America is their salvation. I totally get that. Nobody here does not get that. What I`m trying to get at, is our borders can not sustain such a population increase, our economy can not handle it (See last 8 years). Regardless if they are dangerous criminals or not. We have no way of knowing their criminal background. They need to come here legally. We have programs where amnesty is granted depending on why you came here in the first place. Don`t let your sympathy for them, ruin this country. I`m not heartless just logical.
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Male 73
"There are MILLIONS of people lining up in other countries to fill out paperwork and take tests and get into this country legally. Even in Mexico.

Why should the illegals just be allowed to waltz in?"

GOLD STAR +1 REPS and any other thing I can say to show I agree 100%
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Male 10
It is NOT racially profiling. Race doesn`t matter. Citizenship does. A canadian being in this country illegally will be treated the same. RACE DOESN`T MATTER!! Call it citizenship profiling. People are using `racial profiling` to make the law something it isn`t: racist. That word gets more people to scream out against it than any other.

And we did a lot of good in Iraq and Afghanistan. You`re "it was kind of impossible to avoid some of it being good." is simply your opinion. Iraqis were thankful we were there freeing them from Saddam. I`ll admit, some innocents were killed. But compared to the number of innocents killed in the US Civil War and the American Revolution, the numbers are low. I see it as we did a heck of a lot of good, with regretably some wrong moves. How many lives did we save by thwarting the training of future terrorists. Saddam was supporting them financially.
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Male 3,482
"And don`t tell me that I know nothing about the illegal immigrant issue."

Please, go ahead. Prove you do.

"They do the jobs no citizen to the US would want to do."

This is a pretty stupid point, considering that right now most actual American citizens would do damn near anything to have a job.

Members of my family and friends included, by the way.

"And also, quit with the stereotyping of illegals. Not all of them are like that."

No, just the ones that end up causing more problems in a week than all the others in a lifetime.

"Mos of them abide to the laws that are here and work hard in the fields."

No. They already broke a damn law by being here. ILLEGALLY.

There are MILLIONS of people lining up in other countries to fill out paperwork and take tests and get into this country legally. Even in Mexico.

Why should the illegals just be allowed to waltz in?
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Male 73
@Paulacookie

How else are our police supposed to crack down on this illegal immigration issue that we have? Its like the insurgents hiding weapons in mosques because they know we cant bomb them, Illegal immigrants are exploiting the law and now complaining about it when we close the loophole that allows them to stay ILLEGALLY in our country.

If racial profiling were required to remove pedophiles off the streets would you oppose that to?
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Female 3,574
[quote]but it`s not like w e can really start own business that provides currency. Being privatized is useless if competition is not allowed.[/quote]
But why would competition not be allowed? Or rather, how?
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Male 15,510

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Male 893
@pui
Currency will also be provide by the private sector. People will use money that has a track record of retaining its value. Unlike the US dollar that lost over 95% of its value ever since the creation of the Federal Reserve. (is that corrupt enough? lol)

The Federal Reserve is private, but that doesn`t really mean anything, but it`s not like w e can really start own business that provides currency. Being privatized is useless if competition is not allowed.

@Musuko42
Is it easier to "shop somewhere else" or hope that the guy you voted for gets elected and for delivers all his/her promises?
Here`s a good video. I think you`ll like it.
Elections

I also don`t think people deserve to buy something if they can`t afford it. Not even food. That`s not to say that I`m against charities.
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Female 434
Jobs no one wants to do??? Again this argument? No it`s jobs no one wants to do for $1 an hour. So if the majority of illegals are mooching off of the welfare system and illegally live in a 2 bedroom house with 10+ people in it causing horrible living conditions for their neighbors and such. Dump their kids into our school systems expecting us to work around their inability to speak english, we should just look past the majority of them because some of them are good?
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Male 239
I`m getting annoyed at people who say illegal immigrants only do jobs nobody else wants to do. No they aren`t taking doctors or lawyers jobs but not everybody hates manual labor. I`ve been doing it for five years. My dad has done it his whole life my grandfather did it his whole life. Some of you (i`m sure a lot of you already have) should try a hard days work for once.
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Male 273
@ paulacookie
i know you just got here, but seriously can everyone stop saying "this bill is basically racial profiling"

read the bill pleeeeeeease
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Female 57
Wow, this person is stupid.
The problem with this bill is that it is basically racial profiling, which is totally illegal. The cops would be allowed to check the papers of anybody who looks illegal, which would be anybody from Central America.
And also, quit with the stereotyping of illegals. Not all of them are like that. Mos of them abide to the laws that are here and work hard in the fields. It just seems like they are all barbaric criminals because that is what the media makes them sound like. They do the jobs no citizen to the US would want to do. They are already treated like crap, even legal immigrants. And don`t tell me that I know nothing about the illegal immigrant issue.
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Female 434
antagonizer: Well why don`t you just rally for Canada to open up the border for the Mexicans. You are more then welcome to feed, educate and support them financially.
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Male 549
actually they dont lose, this law is good in a sense, it will hopefully spark enough fire under the FEDs to finally ave a real immigration reform thats both just and humane.
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Male 286
good points yohann. the politics of some of these issues have blinded so many people from good common sense.
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Male 273
@ antagonizer, oceanbeast, anarchistgod, madest, siyanor

you lose, get over it
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Male 1,610
I don`t think this girl understands that other people sometimes submit links and write their own descriptions.
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Female 434
Siyanor, sorry still think you are full of it.
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Male 273
@madest

you`re right, you can`t be stopped for no reason...
good thing the bill says nothing like that.

once again, read the bill. you have to already be engaged with the police to be asked for identification.
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Female 434
Stardagger... we didn`t refuse them the right to vote for hundreds of years. America has only been a country for 230 something years.
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Male 73
Its the fu(king law people if your here illegally then you don`t get to choose. And sure some illegals should be allowed to become Americans but only through legal means...
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Male 201
Antagonizer,

Mexico is not a third-world nation. It is not the responsibility of the United States, which has it`s own societal issues, to "educate and train" people who have sneaked into this country and exploited our system for their own well-being. I understand and sympathize with the drive to provide for your family, but the reality is not solely illegals coming in and working tax-free and draining that money from our economy straight into Mexico. It is the crime. The drugs, kidnapping, murder, etc. If 17 bums walked into your house and some of them were eating and some of them were murdering your family and pets I`m sure you wouldn`t say "oh well I guess I better run to the store to feed them." You would be outraged and try to get rid of them. As a matter of fact you wouldn`t let 17 well-behaved bums break into your house and eat your food. Things sure do change when they are applicable to you on a personal level, huh.
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Male 26
"how can you compare all immigrants, most of which are not criminals to a population of irresponsible murderers?"
Because they are criminals in a sense. Illegal immigrants don`t pay taxes. If you don`t pay your taxes the IRS finds you and will either fine you throw you in jail or both. Get your head out of the clouds and start looking at reality.
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Female 3,574
@AnarchistGod, tbh that actually sounds great hahaha. However, I guess I see a few little problems. One being currency... who prints the bills and decides how much money is out there? Wouldn`t something like that very easily get corrupted? Also, what if, say, I am someone`s employee and they screw me over (randomly withholds my pay or something) What would I do then? Who decides what is "fair" in times where people disagree? Would there still be laws? Who decides what the laws are? (not to say that the government now does anything to help people who have been screwed over by their employers. When I was 17 I worked as a waitress in a restaurant and the guy ended up paying me WAAAY below minimum wage. I went to the government, they decided he owned me $600... but think I ever saw that money? lol)
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Male 7,378
The police can not come up to any random person and demand ID. They can if you are driving a car and broke a traffic law but you are free in America to walk around without papers. People who commit crimes can be detained until their identities are confirmed but you must commit a crime. Learn your rights. Oh yeah that applies to non-Arizonans haha!
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Male 239
@anarchistgod

The problem with government is that with more people the governement becomes farther and farther removed from the people it governs. That`s why i think the states (I`m for much smaller states) should be the dominent force in america with the federal government having very little to do. Anarchy isn`t possible. I love the idea i really do, self reliance and the such but it won`t work out.
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Male 2,850
AnarchistGod, protestimg isn`t your only, or primary method, of tackling a government you don`t like: voting for different people to become the government is the primary method.

And in my opinion, is better than "shopping somewhere else", as it values your opinion, not what you may or may not have in your wallet.
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Female 5
@Yohann: Sarcasm is also helpful.

America is by no means ideal, it`s true. It is full of messed up poo that is very unfair, and the system is completely whacked. But try telling that to people who live on $1 a day, lug dirty water for 2 miles to drink at home, and have no options for higher education or any sort of decent health care. Just because they don`t have oil in their countries or high-profile dictators doesn`t mean they`re fine and dandy. Is our part in the solution to just keep to ourselves until we`re a utopia, then tell everyone we`re ready to help?

We did do some good in Iraq. Go us. Given the enormous amount of things we did there, it was kind of impossible to avoid some of it being good.
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Male 549
"because I know there setup to get all the P.O.S. off the road that drive drunk and kill people. Same idea."

sounds like you are trying to construe a different meaning not me.
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Male 273
@oceanbeast
he`s not comparing immigrants to murderers
he`s comparing everyone in the US to drivers effected by a DUI check point.

it`s like you`re not even paying attention to what you`re typing
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Male 893
@pui
Exactly! The way I see it is that the state is for the most part, is like any other business. Except a regular business competes for your dollar, so it strives to be the best. Unlike the state that can just take a portion of your dollar. If you don`t like what`s being done with your money that the state took then you can protest. But I think we can all agree that it`s easier and more effective to shop somewhere else then it is to protest or even revolt against the state.

I propose that everything from police, roads, and even courts be provided by the private sector in order to ensure that money is more effectively going where people want it to go. That`s why I`m an anarcho-capitalist.
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Male 10
Counter-productive, eh? Have you asked the Iraqi children that would`ve otherwise been murdered by Saddam what they thought? What about the mass graves our troops have found? Want to tell their wives and kids our troops should never have helped them? Go ahead.

The point of this thread was to basically say this: "If you`re a US citizen, then the US Constitution applies to you. If you`re here illegally, then leave. If you won`t leave, then we`ll have the police do it for you." Plain and simple.

This country can`t even help itself let alone take on the entire infrastructure of yet another country where its people won`t even try to make it a better place. Oh sure, we can dump in billions to save banks while giving pink slips to teachers, that`s just `oh so fine and dandy`. If you want to pay to help Mexico, then send in your paycheck first. I`m sure there will be a guarantee it won`t go to corrupt officials there.
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Male 549
donthaveone - how can you compare all immigrants, most of which are not criminals to a population of irresponsible murderers?
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Male 549
we the immigrants are good enough to slave and toil like all other americans but the problem arises when we ask for those same rights. we should know better.
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Male 953
If your legal...prove it and go on your way big deal.

Do I complain every time I`m stopped at a DUI check point? NO....because I know there setup to get all the P.O.S. off the road that drive drunk and kill people. Same idea.
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Male 273
@antagonizer

and who`s job is it to educate Mexicans??
it sure isn`t our responsibility, maybe Oprah can build a school down there for them.
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Male 549
antagonizer - yes! you understand what im saying. NAFTA and other organizations are posed to look good but actually do horrible things to third world countries.
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Male 508
Damn those illegal immigrants and their evil ways. How dare they leave their third world country. How dare they try and support their starving families on our jobs.

Maybe if you didn`t keep them poor, and hunt them down like dogs, but instead educated and trained them, your crime rate wouldn`t skyrocket.
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Female 5
Seriously, people, enough ingroup bias. There are plenty of people in every population - Americans, Mexicans, Iraqi, liberals, conservatives, everyone - who have done/are doing/will do horrible, messed-up things for selfish reasons. You don`t have to be a tree-hugger or petal-strewer to see a more far-reaching way to respond to all that.

Yohann: we "helped living conditions" in all those countries by sending the military in. This is all sorts of counter-productive. Instead of going in in a big wave and trying to force change, why not go in bit by bit and work with communities on a local level to help them overcome the issues they`re facing? Work with the government to help it overcome corruption? It`s not a simple or easy solution, but it beats slamming the gates on the rest of the world because we`re rich enough to ignore it.
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Male 549
i am all for closed borders and deporting criminals, but not all illegal immigrants are criminals, and some even deserve to stay here and become Americans.
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Male 273
@ Madest

um... ohio, where i live
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Male 7,378
Actually, several states have laws that require you to prove your identity to police whenever they ask. Even if you haven`t committed a crime.
------------
Name 1 outside Arizona.
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Female 3,574
AnarchistGod, hm so you`re basically proposing capitalism? Instead of having a state run school or police force, people would pay their own money to mini companies that deal these services?

I guess that makes sense, at least in theory lol. I haven`t looked into or thought about it too much, tbh.
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Male 1,184
Oh, also Stphn, employers AND employees would much rather that the employees have money now and pay taxes later. Which is very different from paying your employees less.
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Male 134
Amen, PHXbunny (Ashley). Finally someone with common sense.
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Male 273
*sigh* anyone else want to tell StarDagger how incredibly wrong he is? I don`t feel like typing all of it out.
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Male 893
@pui
I was replying to your comment at 12:06:41 PM.
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Male 893
@pui

People want their stuff protected, so they will pay for protection.
There`s a dispute between two entities, dispute resolution organizations resolve it. All these things can be done without a coercive monopoly (state).

Other than the false belief that a state is needed, I don`t really see why one would emerge.

By the way, when you say government, I`m just assuming that you meant the state.
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Male 1,184
Lol.. Stphn, do YOU know the exact amount you will pay in taxes this year?

Neither do employers. If they did, there would be no reason for them to file taxes.

Clearly you do not understand economics at all.
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Male 239
Stardagger... what point are you making?

Just about every group people in the world has done that at one time or another. People are drated up.
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Female 3,574
Hm, I guess it depends on how long they`re illegal for. There is a difference between someone who moves to the states and then takes a while before becoming a real citizen than someone who just forever tries to stay under the radar.
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Male 273
@oceanbeast

you wanna know how we are "helping" in Haiti

their govt is asking us to stop sending money. why you ask?

well agriculture has pretty much come to a halt. Farmers who still want to produce good have no more customers. the people are just receiving the hand outs. it`s gotten to the point where people living in the areas that weren`t destroyed are sneaking into the regions with disaster relief to receive free everything.

Why can`t we focus on our own country?? why do you hippies constantly want to help everyone else when we have our own issues?

dang hippies


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Male 549
pui - how do you think many legal immigrants got here? i was illegal once, but now am a US citizen, i was given a chance and now am fully assimilated this is my country i pay taxes, im a law abiding citizen, and understand what can drive a person to leave their own country. thats why we should approach this issue with more humanity.
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Female 4,039
*pew-pew* LOLLLLLL
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Male 549
stardagger - you sir are drating right.

yohann - haiti does in fact have cartels, but thats not my point , my point which you missed was fighting the cartles directly isnt the only way to get rid of them. NAFTA is one of the reasons central America is messed up, also legalization of pot could devastate cartels. you dont have to fight a war, you just have to think
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Female 3,574
I get the concern about this particular bill.

However, I do not understand why people are protecting illegal immigrants. Immigrants are fine, illegal ones are not. Someone explain to me why we should be sympathetic to illegal immigrants?
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Male 10
How many drug cartels with their own armies are located in Haiti? Last I heard, there aren`t too many. In Mexico and Columbia, you throw a rock in any direction and you hit three of them. They`re coming up through Mexico and hitting our border. Trying to help them fix their country would only result in more deaths. Forcing them back would in turn get them to fix their own country. They have to live there, so they fix their country while we`re up here fixing ours.
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Male 1,190
Wow at least the current wave of illegal immigrants are not
1) committing historical acts of genocide
2) Stealing the land of the people you massacred
3) kidnapping people from Africa to work that stolen land
4) preventing those ex slaves the right to vote for hundreds of years
5) creating a tax system that provides benefits to the top 1% of society
6) perverting the political system so that it rewards corporations, even in direct opposition to the welfare of society.

Man, maybe we should let them run things for a bit!
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Female 434
Never said it wasn`t worth it. Said it required a war that would cost billions of dollars. Similar to the one in Iraq, which the majority of people seemed to be against.
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Male 549
freeze ray of sense? that comment was almost prepubescent, there are ways of helping without war. are we at war with haiti right now? i doubt it but i would go out on a limb and say we are probably having the largest impact on them anyone has ever had.
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Male 17
Then I`m wrong and I guess we abandon any idea of helping Mexico so it`s less necessary for them to come to America. It`s not worth it if it would require war.
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Female 434
Oooh could that be my super power??? I`ve always wanted one.
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Female 4,039
@Stphnhrrll - I love how you stop everyone`s BS with your freeze ray of sense.
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Male 10
Uh, yeah. We would have to invade. Apparently you haven`t seen the drug cartels that are now enforced and entrenched. Fort Hancock, TX ring a bell? It should. Fort Hancock drug cartel war

In order to `fix` Mexico, we`d have to get rid of the drug cartels. You want to do that on your own, go right ahead. Maybe if we prance in gleefully spreading rose petals and smiling wearing tutus and hugging trees (in this case cactii), they will understand and abruptly drop their rifles and join us singing "Cumbia" or "We are the world".

If a gringo dares to set foot into Mexico with intentions to change the country and how those people live, they better be packing hard and loaded for bear.
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Female 434
In theory, helping Mexico sounds wonderful. But with change comes resistance and with resistance come force and with force comes war.
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Male 36
Asymmetric response:
"Hey, pal. Don`t do that or next time we`ll charge you a fine. What you`re doing infringes upon other people`s right to safety. So here`s a piece of paper that creates a paper trail. Now we know you know the law next time you decide to ride on the sidewalk like a douchebag."
"What!? Oh, no! My rights! Aaaah! Society is raping me and we`re all paying for it! There are pieces of sky all over the ground! Riding my bike on the sidewalk is my constitutional right! RTFC! Nooooooooooo! That`s not true, that`s impossible! Now we see the violence inherent in the system!"
"Uh?"
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Male 134
obama taint no merican. you carnnnn gerrrrtttt ourrrrtttt
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Male 549
the drated up part about this law is the underlying racial profiling.

oh and the fact that some Americans that will remain nameless don`t like the fact that legal immigrants are actually in America doing good things and that in turn is changing the face of America.
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Female 434
Yea but the leaders of Mexico don`t care about the citizens. they live high on the hog. That`s the problem. They would need a whole different type of government
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Male 17
True StphnHrrll. I suppose I was just elaborating on what MamboPoa said, but we can help without forcing change. Working with Mexico`s government to improve the conditions of their country does not mean we have to change Mexico.
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Female 434
In theory, helping Mexico sounds wonderful. But with change comes resistance and with resistance come force and with force comes war.
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Female 434
Siyanor, Oh and I call BS about them giving their employers the money for taxes. Why in the world would they do that? Why wouldn`t the employer just pay them less. You are so pulling all of this out of your ass.
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Male 17
We don`t have to invade Mexico to help there. We wouldn`t have to actually go into Mexico with our military to help them. We can help other countries through peaceful means, so the Iraq and Afghanistan examples are irrelevant.

Obviously illegal immigration is illegal. The problem is it is much harder to enforce then other crime. It is very hard to differentiate between legal and illegal immigrants without checking all of them. This violates the legal immigrants` rights, unless there is real reason beyond reasonable suspicion.
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Male 4
Your awesome Ashley
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Female 1,604
I say well said Ashley PHXbunny..
I am tired of people crying because they have no rights but yet they are living here illegally, and the illegal immigrant sympathizers
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Female 434
They`re not paying taxes. I don`t care if the employer does it or not. They don`t file a 1040 they`re not paying taxes. The reason why employers do the "under the table" pay for illegals is because the taxes are cheaper for THEM. So doesn`t count.
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Male 3,646
I read a newspaper article on this, and it said something along the lines of "it is now illegal to be an illegal immigrant." AKA nothing was being done to protect American citizens from illegals taking jobs etc...
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Female 3,574
Eh, the trouble with anarchy is it is simply the state between governments. After a while, people always discover that by forming groups, they can accomplish much more and when they start forming groups they start forming rules and laws and ta daaa! a new government is born. It`s the ciiiiiircle of liiiiife!

I won`t argue that there isn`t problems with government, I just don`t think human beings are capable of just living without creating government, even by accident.
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Male 1,184
Their income taxes are filed as their employers` income, StphnHrrll. They just give the money to their employers, and their employers then pay higher taxes.
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Male 10
Help improve conditions in Mexico??? Are you kidding me? We help living conditions in Afghanistan, and everyone complains we have no business there. We help living conditions in Iraq, and everyone complains we have no business there. We go into Mexico, and the outcry will be deafening.

Americans improved their country (it took a couple of wars, sure). They can improve their own.

If you`re not a citizen or have the proper Visa, you`re illegal. It`s illegal to rob a bank, so I won`t do it. It`s illegal to assault someone, so I won`t do it. It`s illegal to be in the country without citizenship or credentials, they shouldn`t be here. DUH! It isn`t rocket science. If I`m illegal in Mexico, what happens to me? No rights for illegals in Mexico? Nope.

Besides, if you`re not a citizen of the United States, then why the hell would you even think the Constitution even applies to you???
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Female 434
How can they pay income taxes? When they legally can`t file an I-9 or receive W-2 or 1099 or anything like that. Are they just sending the IRS random checks to be good people?
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Male 17
Let me correct my last sentence:
"Unfortunately, it happens to often where a criminal who is also an illegal immigrant is not deported, and that can`t happen."
I had a typo that was really bugging me.
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Male 378
@monktoast

Actually, several states have laws that require you to prove your identity to police whenever they ask. Even if you haven`t committed a crime.
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Male 1,184
..You don`t know of ANY illegal immigrants who pay income taxes?

Things have changed in the past year, then.
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Male 893
@ForAllThSin

I`m for order which is why I`m against the concept of law.

If you`re interested on what my stances are then here`s a pretty good video that sums it up.

Actually anarchy is order
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Male 17
I like you AnarchistGod, you`re funny.

Now to actually contribute again to the debate, MamboPoa is right. We need to work with Mexico on this, and help them improve their situation their to reduce the need for many Mexicans to come to America. Also, we need to do a much better job of preventing them from even coming in illegally in the first place. I would in addition propose we make legal immigration easier and instigate a zero-tolerance policy for illegal immigrants who are arrested for other crimes. Unfortunately, it happens to often where a criminal who is also is not an illegal immigrant is not deported, and that can`t happen.
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Male 273
ha ha, guess we were thinking the same thing StphnHrrll
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Male 273
no, illegals do not pay taxes, foreigners with working visas pay taxes. and if you`re talking about sales tax, that`s just pathetic.
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Female 434
Yea illegals do pay taxes. If they buy cigarettes, booze and beer. Sales tax and such. But they don`t pay income tax, which is what funds social programs such as medicaid and food stamps
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Male 10
First of all. The "wrong" way was to not act, as our `on so liberal` president did. Didn`t act! At least our state did something. And have you even read the Constitution??? There is no `reasonable suspicion` anywhere in it. If you want to quote, get it right the first time so we don`t have to correct you. Here it is:

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

*Probable cause* is the active phrase here. They need probable cause to pull you over, to stop you on the street, for being stupid enough to ride your bike on the sidewalk. Not knowing the law is your fault, not the police.
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Female 434
hahaha well it worked re-hauling Iraq`s. We are so successful in changing the way other countries do things
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Male 7,378
No this will all be settled in the courts. It will most certainly be deemed unconstitutional and Auburnjunkie will owe me $100.00 BOOYAH!
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Male 1,184
"the fact that illegal immigrants don`t pay tax"

Fact? FACT? That`s an utter lie. Illegal immigrants DO pay taxes. Maybe not ALL of them, but I can assure you most of them do.
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Female 434
Um.... obviously riding a bike on a sidewalk is illegal. Was unaware you didn`t know. That was probably why you only got a warning. Sidewalks are for people WALKING. If people decided to ride their bikes on the sidewalk it would then become unsafe for walkers.
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Male 239
Yeah Mambopo that`s the best solution... let`s overhaul mexico`s economy... just real quick like.
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Male 893
I deleted my comment.

@tyst13
I was NOT trolling! StphnHrrll provided no content as to why my warning was justified. She just basely told me to suck it up, which I consider to be trolling.
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Female 5
Illegal immigration is a huge problem, but all this argument and getting mad at each other and tossing names around is a bit unproductive, even if it`s entertaining. What the country needs is for people to think of better solutions.

How about the source of the problem? Why are people so eager to immigrate here in the first place, enough so that they`ll bypass the incredibly complex and difficult legal method and risk their own lives/livelihoods to cross the border? It could have something to do with the living conditions in Mexico. Maybe if life there could be made better, people would stop coming here because they think that ridiculously low wages for hard labor is a very good deal.
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Female 434
**BOOM** **BOOM** Ahh thank God I made it my legs are so heavy. Thought I`d come in to say



mmmmmmm M&Ms
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Female 570
the words "immigrant" and "illegal" put ogether sound ridiculous
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Male 7,378
Yeah sorry Anarchist.. Riding your bike on the sidewalk is a no-no. I thought everyone knew that.
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Male 4,593
I got an M&M stuck in my ear once.
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Female 434
Oh... ouch! Good insult. Never heard that one before. I know I`m so fat and repulsive. God even my face is deformed. As for the bitch part, can`t really deny it. Unfortunately most males think women who are smart and opinionated are bitches. So I thank you!
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Male 17
So AnarchistGod has now resorted to trolling. We can officially ignore him.
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Male 273
@AnarchistGod

wait a second.
if you`re against taxation, how can you be for illegal immigrants?

That`s one of the huge talking points on the side for this bill. the fact that illegal immigrants don`t pay tax but receive benefits from our tax dollars. i guess it must be nice to be an anarchist, don`t ever really have to take a stance on anything.
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Female 120
Phxbunny is really starting to suck. She sucks.

Amusing rant.
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Female 434
Anarchist, then don`t ride your bike on a sidewalk. Big deal. You got a warning not a ticket. Count yourself lucky
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Male 7,378
@ MichaelBored, You are the man!
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Male 893
@madest

How dare you say something like that about the police! They protect you! (sarcasm)


Here`s a personal experience of mine with the police. Link
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Female 434
Well more people are likely to get hurt from someone texting while driving. Maybe we should have random stops to check people`s last text sent. Obviously we need to keep people safe
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Male 10,338
I`m gonna say it before anyone else does.

Michealbored is a looney drattard.
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Male 17
I am as against illegal immigration as anybody, and believe some major reform needs to be done about it. Like anything, however, there`s a right way and a wrong way to do it. This is the wrong way. Police only need reasonable suspicion to enact the law. Reasonable suspicion is incredibly vague, and could be as simple as they look Hispanic. This threatens those who are here legally, as well as those whose families immigrated here generations ago. Rewrite the law to define reasonable suspicion, or limit it to legitimate violations.
As for racial profiling, that`s the hardest part about enforcing illegal immigration. Considering our problems are with Mexican illegal immigrants, it follows that the illegal immigrants will be Mexican (or Cuban if we are looking at Florida). As a result, illegal immigration enforcement would be wasting its time checking white, black, and Asian people. It`s a double edged sword.
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Male 10,338
@madest: Hating cops doesn`t make you right.

@anarchistgod: You know what I meant. Don`t mince words.
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Male 206
Dear PHXBunny,

Please look up the word "unconstitutional." You`ll be hearing that a lot more very soon.

Also, have fun paying for the all the civil rights lawsuits you`ll be paying for out of your own tax dollars. Oh, wait, what am I thinking? "The police won`t stop you for no reason." Yes, of course they wouldn`t. Can`t imagine why anyone would think they would.

Good luck with that.
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Male 273
I, for one, am pretty happy about the fact that madest and anarchistgod are in opposition to me.
Lets me know I`m on the right path in life
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Male 16
@madest there are bad people in every facet of life. the majority of cops are not like that.
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Male 263
yea we need to be harder on cops when they mess up, they shoud be held to a higher standard and if they veer off that standard be harsh with penalties
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Male 16
@StphnHrrll Drunk Driving kills. Driving is also a privilege not a right. I wouldn`t mind getting stopped randomly. In fact, I`d probably thank the cop for keeping our roads safe.
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Male 7,378
Yeah you can always trust cops to do the right thing. They`re much too busy protecting and serving to abuse their power.
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Male 263
we cant have open bordes unless mexico has them as well, well they dont. id love to go down there and live, and get free health care and cheap meds, sadly its illegal for me to go there and if i get hurt they wont fix me up if i dont have american insurence. they refuse health care to non citizens. mexico and mexicans from there can eat me
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Female 434
Well technically every illegal immigrant has committed at least 1 crime. You know crossing illegally into the US
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Male 795
They are trying to slander the tea party movement.

If you question anything the US government does, even though WE put THEM in power, you are "un-American" or a "terrorist". The truth is, the people pulling the strings are the terrorists. They want to be able to blame us when the next big attack happens (soon), faulting us for the "hate" and "negativity" we supplied as the catalyst for said attack. Say bye-bye Internet...
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Male 893
@auburnjunky
[quote]It`s communism without the leaders[/quote]
Really? I thought it`s anarchy without leaders. I guess I was wrong. *facepalm*

@ForAllThSin
Pat was just reporting what SOMEONE ELSE investigated.

@eatmybologna
Even if it was true, and illegal immigrants commit more crimes on average, (which they don`t) they would be less likely be involved those activities if it was easier for them to get a job and making a living for themselves.
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Female 434
But of course I would have to have done something wrong, right liberals? Democrats would NEVER create a law that is unfair to everyone. It`s my fault I got pulled over. I was driving like a drunk, right????? No I just happened to be in a car, on the weekend, after 11pm. END OF STORY. Until you live in Bremerton, WA don`t act like you know.. because you don`t.
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Male 272
this is crap
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Male 263
i agree cops should not have right to stop for no reason and ask for papers or id, that actully is a supreme court ruling that u dont have to show cops anything unless you are breaking a law. so, if a latino i sbreakin g the law they shoul dhave right to ask for papers and if none, BYE other countries do that to they ask for pass port and vidsiting visa if u dont have them they make u leave! we should do same
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Female 434
That`s not what I`m saying BiPolar. It`s RANDOM DRUNK DRIVING STOPS!!!!! How many times must I say this????? They stop EVERYONE.... RANDOMLY! They also do this in Hawaii and other states They have roadblocks and such so you know you are going to get checked out. But in Bremerton (The city I live) they did not set up roadblocks. They just pull you over. They don`t say "You were driving erratically" They don`t even mention anything you could have been doing illegally. They ask you what you are doing. Basically to see if they smell alcohol
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Male 10,338
I wouldn`t survive phasoo. No habla espanol.
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Male 285
im never okay with racial profiling, but this is the truth. Ask anyone who lives here (AZ of course) to take a walk or drive through University Drive that`s not close to the ASU campus and tell me what you see. For bonus points, to a trip to Casa Grande.
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Male 10,338
Cops don`t pull people over for drunk driving period! They pull them over for swerving, or the like. That is reasonable suspicion of DUI.

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Female 434
Oh yea let`s get rid of citizenship all together. Great idea! We wouldn`t even need to vote anymore, right? We could just elect Obama as King and he can do as he wishes.
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Male 16
@ it has everything to do with driving. Cops don`t pull people over for drunk driving without suspicion.
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Male 10,338
You think citizenship is stupid, because you are an anarchist. We get that. Too bad that form of "government" would not work in today`s society.

It`s communism without the leaders, and people are too smart for it. It worked in the days BCE, but it can`t work today.
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Female 434
They`re called RANDOM STOPS for a reason. They stop you and ask you what you`re doing and where you`re going. They don`t even ask for registration or insurance
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Male 273
@ madest
10th amendment will answer your question.

The Tea Party is against growing federal govt. Not against state`s rights. Maybe if you actually knew what was in the constitution you might find yourself agreeing with the American`s who are in the huge crowds that you refer to as "teabaggers"
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