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Date: 03/19/10 07:30 AM

181 Responses to Most Americans Believe God Has a Plan for Them

  1. Profile photo of Nneri
    Nneri Female 13-17
    992 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 7:22 am
    Link: Most Americans Believe God Has a Plan for Them - 82% of Americans ask God for help in making decisions; 71%believe that when good or bad things happen its God`s plan.
  2. Profile photo of almightybob1
    almightybob1 Male 18-29
    4290 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 7:38 am
    Another 61 percent say God has predetermined the course of their life

    I wonder how many of that 61% simultaneously believe that God gave them free will.
  3. Profile photo of Baelzar
    Baelzar Male 40-49
    1399 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 7:40 am
    And 90% of athletes actually believe Gawd is on their side in sporting events.
  4. Profile photo of BBQ
    BBQ Male 18-29
    467 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 7:50 am
    I wonder how many of them go "baaaahh" in other situations as well.
  5. Profile photo of Rick_S
    Rick_S Male 40-49
    3275 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 7:51 am
    in the 4th century people believed that there could be no people on the other side of the planet because the Bible says man descended from Adam and Eve. In the 17th century people believed the Earth was the center of the universe because the Bible says the Earth doesn`t move. Today people believe that the universe was created by intelligent design because the Bible says so.
  6. Profile photo of a1butcher
    a1butcher Male 40-49
    4812 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 7:53 am
    Oh God.
    I knew it went to long between anything posted about god.... And so begins another Epic, meaningless Flame war.
  7. Profile photo of a1butcher
    a1butcher Male 40-49
    4812 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 7:53 am
    Thanks for starting the fire Rick
  8. Profile photo of skaterboy17
    skaterboy17 Male 18-29
    296 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 8:01 am
    I`m sorry, but there`s just too much evidence to the contrary to actually believe that the universe was created by intelligent design. As soon as the older generation dies off, Christianity will begin to as well. Every other day you see some big news story about a scientific finding that obviously contradicts a Christian`s view of how the universe was created, how life on Earth began.
  9. Profile photo of cobrakiller
    cobrakiller Male 18-29
    7423 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 8:05 am
    people who are uneducated and poor need a god to believe in so they feel there is some reasoning to their lives sucking. im not saying its a bad thing, it just makes sense.
  10. Profile photo of cobrakiller
    cobrakiller Male 18-29
    7423 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 8:08 am
    skaterboy17, there is actually no evidence that there was no intelligent design. we keep getting closer and closer to our origin, but until we get there (which i dont believe we ever will) there is no way to tell either way. you may have been talking about creationism vs evolution in which case you would be right. but, even though im not a religious person, there has been no evidence that maybe things havent been pushed gently in certain directions by an unseen force.
  11. Profile photo of a1butcher
    a1butcher Male 40-49
    4812 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 8:14 am

  12. Profile photo of Glowy
    Glowy Male 18-29
    355 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 8:15 am
    BS
  13. Profile photo of kribbe
    kribbe Male 18-29
    2006 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 8:15 am
    The universe is infinitely big, therefore there must be an infinite number of planets... ever considered that god lost his poo and restarted on another planet, cuz we suck at running a planet with our free will?
  14. Profile photo of patridiot
    patridiot Male 30-39
    118 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 8:19 am
    It must be easier to not feel accountable for what happens.
  15. Profile photo of NotAllowed
    NotAllowed Female 18-29
    526 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 8:22 am
    not surprising, but as always, sad sad sad.
  16. Profile photo of ferdyfred
    ferdyfred Male 40-49
    13596 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 8:27 am

  17. Profile photo of NotAllowed
    NotAllowed Female 18-29
    526 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 8:28 am
    "there is actually no evidence that there was no intelligent design."
    cobrakiller, there is actually no evidence that there is no pink elephant orbiting the earth either.
  18. Profile photo of madest
    madest Male 40-49
    7379 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 8:34 am
    This proves most Americans are retarded.
  19. Profile photo of a1butcher
    a1butcher Male 40-49
    4812 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 8:35 am
    ferdyfred >>> Awww crap that was my next image..
  20. Profile photo of AnarchistGod
    AnarchistGod Male 70 & Over
    893 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 8:37 am
    God doesn`t exist. We all know that instinctively if not intellectually.
  21. Profile photo of unmercyfuldu
    unmercyfuldu Male 18-29
    762 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 8:38 am
    Thank you NotAllowed.
  22. Profile photo of Angelmassb
    Angelmassb Male 18-29
    15511 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 8:38 am

  23. Profile photo of Pooptart19
    Pooptart19 Male 18-29
    2442 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 8:39 am
    If the concept of free will is so important to Christians, how can God allow free will AND have a plan for their lives?

    Sure this has been asked before, but try arguing with a Christian about it. Oh the mental gymnastics!
  24. Profile photo of Valonqar
    Valonqar Male 13-17
    116 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 8:39 am
    As always, America fails to amaze me.
    @ kribbe though. That would also mean that there is an infinite amount of matter and energy, but is that even possible?
  25. Profile photo of cobrakiller
    cobrakiller Male 18-29
    7423 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 8:40 am
    notallowed, thats just untrue, we can see all around the earth with satellite photos and such. so we can see what is and what is not orbiting us.
  26. Profile photo of bumbleBB
    bumbleBB Female 18-29
    1113 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 8:41 am
    Doubt it... i wonder how "random" their smaple was.
  27. Profile photo of ferdyfred
    ferdyfred Male 40-49
    13596 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 8:42 am
    a1butcher - :-D !!!!
  28. Profile photo of Pooptart19
    Pooptart19 Male 18-29
    2442 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 8:42 am
    This proves most Americans are retarded.

    madest, I think the reelection of George W. Bush proved that years ago.
  29. Profile photo of unmercyfuldu
    unmercyfuldu Male 18-29
    762 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 8:44 am
    @cobrakiller

    How did I know you would say that and miss the point. We have no evidence that Zeus, aliens, leprechauns or the flying spaghetti monster DONT exist either. Just because you have no evidence something does not exist doesn`t confirm or give credit to the contrary.
  30. Profile photo of kribbe
    kribbe Male 18-29
    2006 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 8:52 am
    @valongar: everything that has not been proved wrong is possible, hell earth could be a electron circling around some neutrons and protons (that looks like the sun) inside another living being
  31. Profile photo of unmercyfuldu
    unmercyfuldu Male 18-29
    762 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 8:53 am
    NO, the election of Grover Cleveland proved it first! ...
  32. Profile photo of edana42
    edana42 Female 50-59
    2509 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 8:53 am
    @ pooptart19

    No, the election then the re-election of Willy Clinton proved it first. The Bush incident just re-affirmed it.
  33. Profile photo of alikabul
    alikabul Male 18-29
    696 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 9:16 am
    "According to the findings, better educated and wealthier Americans are less likely to believe God plays an active role in their life."

    Well duuuhh!
  34. Profile photo of Zerocyde
    Zerocyde Male 18-29
    3258 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 9:24 am
    I drating hate this country. I wanna move to Norway or something. Somewhere where people use their brains.
  35. Profile photo of Rick_S
    Rick_S Male 40-49
    3275 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 9:35 am
    "The universe is infinitely big, therefore there must be an infinite number of planets... ever considered that god lost his poo and restarted on another planet, cuz we suck at running a planet with our free will?" The universe is finite in size, but in an infinitely sized container. Since, according to science, it all began with a big bag 13.3-13.9 billion years ago, the universe can be no larger than 13.3-13.9 billion light years across. There are a FINITE number of planets. Therefore it is possible, if not unlikely, that we are the only intelligent life in the universe.
  36. Profile photo of NottaSpy
    NottaSpy Male 40-49
    881 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 9:36 am
    It`s a common mistake to assume that Christians think logically. If they had any critical thinking skills at all, they would not be Christians. You cannot read through the Bible with a critical eye and come out the other end believing it to be anything other than a fairy tale.

    Julia Sweeney`s "Letting Go of God" (easily found on youtube) is a perfect example of what happens when an intelligent Christian doesn`t disengage their brain.

    Between the unrelenting progress of science and the hard core religious nuts dying off, we may someday see the end of these very damaging beliefs.
  37. Profile photo of Spider_sol
    Spider_sol Male 18-29
    1452 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 9:38 am
    Rick, to clarify, if we assume the universe is roughly 14 billion years old and that things are traveling at the speed of light, then the universe is 28 billion light years across(things 14b ly from center). But the fact is that we can only see things 14 billion light years away because the light from other things hasn`t reached us yet.
  38. Profile photo of Rick_S
    Rick_S Male 40-49
    3275 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 9:40 am
    a1butcher: I didn`t mean to start a flame war. I`m just posting simple fact. At the time, those beliefs were held to be true because they were backed by what was found in the Bible. We now know that there were people on the other side of the planet at the time, and we also know that the Earth does move. Both Biblical facts were proved wrong, and are now accepted as being wrong. No Christian will argue that people weren`t in Australia in the 4th century, or that the Earth doesn`t move, even though the Bible tells them otherwise. Draw your own conclusion on the last Biblical fact I`ve listed. I am NOT saying Evolution is right, and I`m NOT saying Intelligent Design/Creationism is right.
  39. Profile photo of Rick_S
    Rick_S Male 40-49
    3275 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 9:42 am
    Spider_sol: Thank you. I meant just what you were saying, but screwed it up.
  40. Profile photo of Rick_S
    Rick_S Male 40-49
    3275 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 9:44 am
    "It`s a common mistake to assume that Christians think logically." Religion is about accepting things (sometimes at face value) on FAITH. Faith means you don`t question something. You don`t say "That doesn`t make logical sense." You accept it. You can, however, think logically in other areas of your life, and still have faith in your Religion.
  41. Profile photo of a1butcher
    a1butcher Male 40-49
    4812 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 9:49 am
    I was bound to happen anyway Rick S. but....
    You Crumpled up a wee bit of paper, gathered some kindling and pulled out you lighter then lit the paper and everyone else threw the kindling on the paper...
    Now the logs are being gathered and you know the rest...
    Just saying
  42. Profile photo of DJDoubleb
    DJDoubleb Male 30-39
    382 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 9:56 am
    Faith isn`t to believe in something without question... Faith is to believe in something in SPITE of questions.

    If you aren`t questioning your beliefs, how can you ever grow as a person or a christian?
  43. Profile photo of Geogypsy
    Geogypsy Female 18-29
    2546 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 10:06 am
    I`m amazed that such a high percentage believe that events in their lives are driven by divine intervention. I`m futhermore amazed that anyone would find solace in the powerlessness of such a thought.



  44. Profile photo of kribbe
    kribbe Male 18-29
    2006 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 10:06 am
    @Rick_s: just because someone says something is infinite does not mean that it actually is (e.g a man can be infinitely wealthy), we just say that it is infinite because we don`t really know how big it actually is and as i currently understand is that universe is all and that we have no word for what might be outside it
  45. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 10:08 am
    I believe the author of this article stating "...whining to God about problems" has the purpose of prayer very mixed up.

    The purpose is NOT to whine about your problems, The purpose is ask for forgiveness, guidance, wisdom, protection, and to praise God. God already knows your problems, He`s omnipotent (That means he knows everything).

    If you are whining to God, That`s not prayer it`s whining and God doesn`t like whiners.
  46. Profile photo of kribbe
    kribbe Male 18-29
    2006 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 10:09 am
    and on another note could you please leave a space between the actual comment and your criticism Rick it`s giving me a headache.
  47. Profile photo of NottaSpy
    NottaSpy Male 40-49
    881 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 10:13 am
    @Rick_S, why would you disregard what makes logical sense? How do you figure that you can use logic in other areas of your life when religion inserts itself into every aspect of the life of the faithful?
  48. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 10:16 am
    "I`m futhermore amazed that anyone would find solace in the powerlessness of such a thought."

    It`s obvious you`ve never felt the power of God in your life. God doesn`t leave us `powerless` far from it. The confidence in knowing God is in control takes the burden of worry off people`s shoulders.

    I`ve seen people go through so much drama, worry, remorse, and hate in their lives. Those are completely useless emotional drags on living. God gives us rest, We know he takes the burden. Jesus paid the cost to be the boss, If people would just let him.
  49. Profile photo of NottaSpy
    NottaSpy Male 40-49
    881 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 10:17 am
    Then you have the people, like CrakrJak, who know what God is thinking.
  50. Profile photo of sidewyz8
    sidewyz8 Female 18-29
    843 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 10:23 am
    a person wins the lottery: "Yes! I am awesome!"
    then gets hit by a car: "This is all god`s doing!"
    I can`t remember the point I was trying to make with his
  51. Profile photo of skaterboy17
    skaterboy17 Male 18-29
    296 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 10:29 am
    CrakrJak, when teeth start falling out of kids` heads, what makes them feel better about it? The "Tooth Fairy" is there to save the day, and they don`t worry about it anymore because the "Tooth Fairy" makes magical castles with their teeth. When people die, what makes people feel better about it? Knowing that "God" is there to take their "spirits" into "heaven", where they will live forever in a perfect place. Christianity was made up to keep people from doing bad things, because if they sin, they go to "Hell," and nobody wants to do that. It probably just started as a story that some mother told her child at night to calm him down. It helps people to cope with difficult things in their life to believe that everything works out in the end, just as long as they believe in "God".
  52. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 10:30 am
    "It`s a common mistake to assume that Christians think logically."

    So you are assuming that we, As humans, Think better than God ? That `logic` and `science` can explain away everything ? There are millions of questions still unanswered, Many of which will likely never get answered.

    No matter how technologically advanced man becomes, We still rely on forces we have yet to explain or understand fully. If you believe you can outsmart God, I pity you.
  53. Profile photo of slayer50515
    slayer50515 Male 18-29
    988 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 10:32 am
    "The results, published in the March issue of the journal Sociology of Religion"
    Instant and permanent dismissal of this metastudy.

    Unless I see who was asked, where they were surveyed, how the study was conducted, what questions were asked, and much more about the study (including exact numbers) I will severely question these results.
    For now, I will dismiss them.

    Direct quote from one of the "studies":
    82 percent of participants reported that they depend on God for help and guidance in making decisions.
    71 percent said they believe that when good or bad things happen, these occurrences are simply part of God`s plan for them.
    61 percent indicated they believe God has determined the direction and course of their lives.
    32 percent agreed with the statement: "There is no sense in planning a lot because ultimately my fate is in God`s hands."

    Which numbers did they base this on? This is all extremely misleadin
  54. Profile photo of skaterboy17
    skaterboy17 Male 18-29
    296 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 10:33 am
    When you were a kid, what made you behave yourself? Most likely, it was that if you were naughty, "Santa Claus" wouldn`t being you any presents on Christmas, and you`d get coal instead. Now that you`re all grown up and can actually realize that there`s no way that a fat man can fly around the world in one night and deliver presents to every single child, and that your parents were the ones giving you the presents, do you still believe in him?
  55. Profile photo of slayer50515
    slayer50515 Male 18-29
    988 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 10:35 am
    Misleading*
    Only 61% of the participants indicated they believed that god has a plan. NOT 82%.
    On top of that, 32% agreed with the statement: "There is no sense in planning a lot because ultimately my fate is in God`s hands." That says a lot about the people surveyed. They literally think they don`t need to do anything, that they are completely controlled by god and not themselves.
  56. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 10:41 am
    skaterboy17: It`s far more than a collection of `stories`. Nearly every problem man has encountered has an answer in the bible. The `characters` in the bible were far from perfect and did not lead perfect lives, Except for one Jesus.

    There have been many other `stories` crafted over the years, But people know they are stories and treat them as such. `Stories` in and of themselves do not have the power to change people`s lives, The Bible does have that power.
  57. Profile photo of NottaSpy
    NottaSpy Male 40-49
    881 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 10:42 am
    @CrakrJak, You make a very basic and illogical assumptions, thus my point from earlier.

    Science can`t explain everything and it may never be able to do so, but it does a far better job than the Bible.

    We rely on forces that we cannot explain, that does not mean that the missing piece of the puzzle is God.

    If there is a God, we could never outsmart him/her/it/them, and I would never presume to be able to. But if you used any type of critical thinking, you would realize that the Bible cannot possibly describe God.

    If you believe in God because you will then have the answers that science can`t provide, then I pity you.
  58. Profile photo of sweetrebelnc
    sweetrebelnc Female 18-29
    847 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 10:44 am
    there is no god. and if there is she certainly doesnt give a sh*t about us.
  59. Profile photo of pui
    pui Female 18-29
    3575 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 10:45 am
    What CrakrJak said.

    Also, just because you do not and refuse to try to understand why someone is christian doesn`t mean it`s completely loopy. As someone who grew up as part an atheist family and became christian voluntarily later in life, I think I`ve thought critically about what I believe a lot more than most atheists have.

    That`s all I`m going to say on IAB. I have no need to justify to anyone why I believe what I do, especially if no one is actually going to listen if I try.
  60. Profile photo of skaterboy17
    skaterboy17 Male 18-29
    296 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 10:46 am
    Doesn`t the bible say that man shall worship nobody above God? And isn`t this the main cause of many of the problems that man has encountered, being that wars where millions of people have died have all been to convert entire civilizations of another faith to Christianity? I hear the Crusades were lots of fun.
  61. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 10:48 am
    "Now that you`re all grown up and can actually realize that there`s no way that a fat man can fly around the world in one night and deliver presents to every single child, and that your parents were the ones giving you the presents, do you still believe in him? "

    Here is a good example.

    No, A fat man doesn`t fly around the world in one night. But the `idea` of Santa, In giving without thought of compensation and helping other people. That Christ did the same for us and we celebrate his birth. Yes, This DOES exist. And we are better off for it.
  62. Profile photo of green_batman
    green_batman Female 18-29
    728 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 10:49 am
    CrakrJak: What if those forces we don`t understand are simply the more complex aspects of nature? We don`t know everything there is to know about nature, so it could easily be that those things that are thought of as "miracles" are simply phenomena that are unexplainable by current science.

    Further, the thing that bothers me most about Christianity is that it treats us as lesser beings. I am not a child; I can take responsibility for my own actions, good or bad. When luck has it that things go wrong, I don`t need a personified being to blame. It is simply the course of nature. Further, I don`t think that humans are inherently sinful, awful beings. I think that we are born in a state of neutrality, and that our actions determine what kind of person we are from there. We are not perfect, but the utterly self-effacing humility that we are expected to show in the face of God is silly, and, I would argue, bad for the advancement of society. Having some pride gives us moti
  63. Profile photo of Siora
    Siora Male 18-29
    221 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 10:50 am
    God is inside your head, religion always has been an idea taken way too far.

    Science has always been there, backing up ideas with evidence and an endless amount of documentation and proof.

    Sure, you can say that i can`t prove that he doesn`t exist, but looking at the world logically, science wins hands down. Unfortunately a lot of religious people are too close minded to venture out and see how much more beautiful the real world is than the one that the Bible describes.
  64. Profile photo of green_batman
    green_batman Female 18-29
    728 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 10:51 am
    Having some pride gives us motivation to do better. Being utterly humiliated tends to make people feel that any endeavor is worthless.
  65. Profile photo of Siora
    Siora Male 18-29
    221 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 10:52 am
    Additionally, (i hope) there will be a time when science is so incredibly vast and concrete, that there will be no religion to start wars and generally make peoples lives a misery.
  66. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 10:57 am
    "If you believe in God because you will then have the answers that science can`t provide..."

    I don`t need to know the answers, It`s entirely possible we as human beings aren`t responsible enough to handle those answers. A prime example of this is nuclear chain reaction. We done a marvelous job of making bombs that would destroy nearly every living thing on earth, and that`s just with one of the atomic forces.

    Maybe we shouldn`t be meddling with poo we have no clue about, Marie Curie died because she had no clue that the radiation would kill her. You could fill whole libraries with the questions to things we don`t know the answers to.

    Have faith in fallible human beings messing with forces they can barely describe ? Have faith that those same humans won`t do something awful with that knowledge ? Sorry, You can have `faith` in that if you want to. I`ll stick with God.
  67. Profile photo of pui
    pui Female 18-29
    3575 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 10:57 am
    If you aren`t questioning your beliefs, how can you ever grow as a person or a christian?
    I agree so much.
  68. Profile photo of almightybob1
    almightybob1 Male 18-29
    4290 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 11:02 am
    slayer: Nice to see some healthy skepticism. That`s good science.

    The journal article can be found here. The figures such as 82% can be reverse-engineered from the weighted responses found in the table in the Methods section.
  69. Profile photo of ElijaBlack
    ElijaBlack Male 18-29
    275 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 11:04 am
    you say god
    i say luck
    you say luck
    i say chance
    you say chance
    i say life
  70. Profile photo of almightybob1
    almightybob1 Male 18-29
    4290 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 11:05 am
    Crakr - you`re using the argument from ignorance, that because we do not understand everything right now, we never will because God did it.
    Look back at how far we have progressed in just the last hundred years. Think of all the things people used to think were caused by God or different gods. Thunder and lightning, tornadoes, tsunamis, sunrise and sunset, crops growing, the seasons changing, disease, famine, plague. Science has since shown us why all these things really happen.

    Our civilisation is advancing and learning at an exponential rate. To arbitrarily decide that NOW we`ve reached the limits of what we can learn is ridiculous.

    I have no need to justify to anyone why I believe what I do
    Incorrect pui. You are instructed by Saimt Peter himself to always be prepared to justify and explain your beliefs in 1 Peter 3:15.
  71. Profile photo of Siora
    Siora Male 18-29
    221 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 11:06 am
    @CrakrJak:
    So you`re saying that we should stop all human advancement in exchange for a bunch of fairy tales made up by people thousands of years ago?
  72. Profile photo of Siora
    Siora Male 18-29
    221 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 11:09 am
    @Almighty:
    Remember that most christians don`t actually know enough about their religion to form any solid arguement. It`s kinda funny.
  73. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 11:11 am
    "the thing that bothers me most about Christianity is that it treats us as lesser beings. I am not a child; I can take responsibility for my own actions, good or bad."

    So you believe you are equal with God ? or if you don`t believe in God, That humans are the highest beings ? If we were, Wouldn`t we know all the mysteries of the universe already ? Maybe that`s not what you are getting at, Maybe you just don`t like being `preached` to. That`s understandable.

    God full well expects us to take responsibility for our actions. Just like we expect our own children (when grown) to take responsibility for themselves and their children. We love our children and protect them, Just as God does for us. That doesn`t mean our children are `lesser beings`, It means they just haven`t grown up yet.
  74. Profile photo of almightybob1
    almightybob1 Male 18-29
    4290 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 11:12 am
    Marie Curie died because she had no clue that the radiation would kill her.

    And through the work that she and others did, we now know the harmful effects of radiation, and how to protect ourselves from it. How many millions of lives has that knowledge saved in the years since?

    If we had instead said "Oh God wanted her to die, it was her time, God has a plan" and thought no more about it, how many more millions would have died of radiation sickness in the meantime?
  75. Profile photo of almightybob1
    almightybob1 Male 18-29
    4290 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 11:17 am
    That humans are the highest beings ?

    What do you mean by "highest"?

    Fastest runner? No.
    Best natural hunter? No.
    Fastest swimmer? No.
    Greatest lung capacity? No.
    Best eyesight? No.
    Best natural camouflage? No.
    Deadliest claws/teeth? No.
    Most intelligent living creature and best at critical thinking? Undoubtedly yes.

    We have evolved as an intelligent species. That`s our edge. Other animals have evolved with different superiorities and inferiorities. It doesn`t make them "higher" or "lower", because it`s like saying a sledgehammer is "higher" than a fork. They`re each good at different things.
  76. Profile photo of NottaSpy
    NottaSpy Male 40-49
    881 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 11:20 am
    @CrakrJak, you make a good point, technology has some very dangerous possibilities, and the worst is yet to come.

    Nuclear weapons was just the first test of humanity, next is climate change, then biological weapons, then self replicating nanite, and then strong AI.

    The reason I`m so passionately anti-religious is because these tests of humanity will require well reasoned thought for us to survive. Religion has played no part in helping us through our nuclear weapon phase, and actually seems to have hurt. Religion is hindering our ability to deal with climate change and medical research.

    People proclaim how they want to save lives in the name of religion, but religious doctrine always gets in the way of real life saving. We have powerful weapons at our disposal, its time we do away with the 2,000 year old morals that put us in great danger.
  77. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 11:21 am
    "Our civilisation is advancing and learning at an exponential rate. To arbitrarily decide that NOW we`ve reached the limits of what we can learn is ridiculous."

    We have progressed very little scientifically from the understandings we gathered from 1900 to 1970. That indeed was exponential. We are now nearing the limits, Perhaps at the edge of what we can know in many areas of science. I`m not saying that we won`t invent new things or stumble upon new discoveries. But if you picked up a science book from the 1980`s and compared it to one now, There would be little difference.

    Yes, Microchips are smaller, Processes more efficient, etc.. But we already knew that would occur. Those things haven`t brought us any closer answering many fundamental questions.
  78. Profile photo of Siora
    Siora Male 18-29
    221 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 11:23 am
    "We love our children and protect them, Just as God does for us. That doesn`t mean our children are `lesser beings`, It means they just haven`t grown up yet."

    Does that mean that we aren`t lesser beings to god then? We`ve just not grown up
  79. Profile photo of Siora
    Siora Male 18-29
    221 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 11:25 am
    Also,
    "We have progressed very little scientifically from the understandings we gathered from 1900 to 1970."
    Evidence plz lol!
  80. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 11:33 am
    "Religion has played no part in helping us through our nuclear weapon phase, and actually seems to have hurt. Religion is hindering our ability to deal with climate change and medical research."

    I disagree, Thank God America is Christian nation or we may not have stopped with just 2 bombs dropped on Japan. I believe our ethics and morality certainly saved the rest of the world.

    Do you think Hitler (If Germany had developed the A-bomb) Would`ve stopped with just 2 bombs ? What about Stalin or Hirohito ? Or how about the present day problems with Iran & North Korea developing them ?

    Christians have compassion, Even for those that are not Christian. We give more and more generous with our money and time than any other religion on earth.

    Our ethical concerns have prevented science from making `Frankensteins` and other abominable mistakes. I don`t consider that a bad thing at all.
  81. Profile photo of pui
    pui Female 18-29
    3575 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 11:33 am
    almightybob1,

    "Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces" Matthew 7:6

    Direct words from Jesus Himself. Also, I`d say the above verse describes IAB when it comes to religious debate pretty accurately.
  82. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 11:36 am
    "Does that mean that we aren`t lesser beings to god then? We`ve just not grown up"

    If we had faith the size of a mustard seed we could move mountains. I`m not saying we could all walk on water and perform miracles, But we do have untapped potential that we`ve yet to realize.
  83. Profile photo of almightybob1
    almightybob1 Male 18-29
    4290 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 11:42 am
    pui - That verse doesn`t really say "don`t explain your beliefs", whereas the one I quoted explicitly does.

    And if you`re right and that`s what it says, you just provided yet another example of why we shouldn`t trust the teachings of a book that can`t even agree with itself.


    Do you think Hitler (If Germany had developed the A-bomb) Would`ve stopped with just 2 bombs ?

    Hitler was Christian, or at least believed in some sort of God or Creator. He repeatedly makes reference to it in Mein Kampf.

    And to be honest, saying "we only dropped TWO nuclear bombs on civilians" doesn`t really make your case look good.
    America, which you say is a Christian country, remains the only nation to have deliberately used nuclear power to wipe out non-combatants. Is that compassion?
  84. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 11:43 am
    Siora: "Evidence plz lol!"

    As I stated, Go find a 1980`s science textbook and compare it with one printed now. Very little will be new material.

    No go and find a science textbook from the 1930`s and compare that with one from the 1950`s, Huge differences! The newer book will be twice the size, and that will be obvious before you even turn the first page.
  85. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 11:46 am
    "Hitler was Christian, or at least believed in some sort of God or Creator. He repeatedly makes reference to it in Mein Kampf. "

    He repeatedly made references to Jews to, That doesn`t mean he was Jewish. Hitler believed in `Pure Aryan Race` not in a Jewish Jesus.
  86. Profile photo of NottaSpy
    NottaSpy Male 40-49
    881 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 11:47 am
    @CrakrJak, your delusions run deep. We stopped at 2 nuclear bombs because the President is answerable to the other branches of government, our legal system, and the people of the United States, as well as his own conscience. The examples you gave were of people who did not need to answer to anyone, and thus would be free to be as batpoo crazy as they want to be, their conscience be damned.

    2nd, you are wrong about Christians being the most generous, and you would need to show some evidence to back that up. Most people are generous, regardless of religion (or lack thereof).

    3rd, the fact that you think science is nearing its end and that we have made little progress since 1980 shows how scientifically illiterate you are.
  87. Profile photo of pui
    pui Female 18-29
    3575 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 11:49 am
    That verse doesn`t really say "don`t explain your beliefs", whereas the one I quoted explicitly does.
    Yes it does, in certain situations. The verse from Peter says that you should try your best and share your wisdom and what gains you happiness with others, but only to those who "ask" (as in, actually want to hear it). Jesus said in my verse that if someone is not going to try and listen to you, and possibly even attack and hurt you, why spend the time to try and teach them to no end? They are not worth it. There are some cases in which trying to teach someone is truly pointless. I think this applies to IAB.
  88. Profile photo of Nidonemo
    Nidonemo Male 18-29
    9311 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 11:49 am
    "Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces" Matthew 7:6

    Uh...what would these animals do with them in the first place? Does a dog need a shrine? Does a pig need jewelery? No, they don`t. It`s out of their frame of understanding.
  89. Profile photo of Heureux
    Heureux Male 40-49
    1054 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 11:51 am
    "We have progressed very little scientifically from the understandings we gathered from 1900 to 1970."

    Nonsense.

    Perhaps most of the progress of the last 40 years across all fields, has simply been beyond your understanding.

    Our understanding of the fundamental structure of matter has changed dramatically since the 70`s, as has our understanding of genetics, immunology, virology, for example. Cosmology, the study of the universe, has dramatically changed over the last 40 years. We`ve discovered an entire new class of virus`s, and new phases of proteins, new particles of matter, and of course, string theory.

    Your contributions here would have some value if you spent less time staring at breasts, and more time researching any other than breasts.
  90. Profile photo of pui
    pui Female 18-29
    3575 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 11:52 am
    Nidonemo, that is the point. It is likening trying to teach the glory of God to slanderers to giving pearls to swine. It`s useless.
  91. Profile photo of Solvent
    Solvent Male 18-29
    2842 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 11:57 am
    Hooray, more futile arguments about religion!
  92. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 11:59 am
    ".... the only nation to have deliberately used nuclear power to wipe out non-combatants. Is that compassion?"

    Let`s tackle this one piece at a time.

    Every Japanese woman and child was being trained to fight against an American invasion, At that time.

    Estimates were that American soldier casualties from an invasion would be in the millions.

    We warned Japan that we would use a weapon with immense destructive power, Before we bombed. (unlike the attack on Pearl Harbor, Where there was no warning at all.)

    Even 2 a-bombs didn`t initially sway the Emperor, It took the threat of many more for him to decide to surrender.

    We rebuilt Japan and didn`t make them pay reparations as was the conditions of surrender in many wars previous to that time.

    We didn`t force them to adopt our religion, We didn`t colonize them, And we didn`t force them to change their traditions or culture (except militarily).

    No other natio
  93. Profile photo of almightybob1
    almightybob1 Male 18-29
    4290 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 12:00 pm
    Crakr - When I said he made references to God, I meant passages like this:

    The folkish-minded man, in particular, has the sacred duty, each in his own denomination, of making people stop just talking superficially of God`s will, and actually fulfill God`s will, and not let God`s word be desecrated. For God`s will gave men their form, their essence and their abilities. Anyone who destroys His work is declaring war on the Lord`s creation, the divine will.

    These are clearly the words of someone who believes in God.
  94. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 12:01 pm
    No other nation on earth has been so generous toward a former enemy.
  95. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 12:07 pm
    almightybob1: He may have believed in God, Bob. But he certainly did not believe in a Jewish Jesus.

    You have to remember Hitler was wolf in sheep`s clothing. As was Jim Jones, David Koresh, And many other charismatic leaders.
  96. Profile photo of NottaSpy
    NottaSpy Male 40-49
    881 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 12:08 pm
    I love how the Christian is defending the needless destruction of human life. We could have made our point just as well by taken out and entire fleet, or airbase, or other military target. Instead, we dropped it on a populated city. Maybe the Japanese were too radical at the time for that to have worked, but we didn`t even try. Human life is valuable enough that we should have dropped at least the first bomb on a military target.
  97. Profile photo of almightybob1
    almightybob1 Male 18-29
    4290 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 12:10 pm
    No other nation on earth has been so generous toward a former enemy.
    We back you in illegal regime change/oil wars. Pretty generous.

    Every Japanese woman and child was being trained to fight against an American invasion, At that time.
    Is an off-duty soldier at home in New York City a combatant?

    unlike the attack on Pearl Harbor, Where there was no warning at all
    "But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. " - Matthew 5:39
    Retaliation is not a Christian response. Jesus himself forbids it, so this contradicts your claim to be a Christian nation.
  98. Profile photo of almightybob1
    almightybob1 Male 18-29
    4290 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 12:13 pm
    He may have believed in God, Bob. But he certainly did not believe in a Jewish Jesus.

    Whoa whoa whoa. Remember the Holy Trinity? God = Jesus (= Holy Spirit)?
  99. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 12:17 pm
    Both Hiroshima & Nagasaki had military defense plants. We had purposefully not bombed (with conventional ordnance) those cities in advance and so their leadership moved military assets there.

    Also at that time, Japan Didn`t have much of a naval fleet left, and had so few planes and even fewer trained pilots that they didn`t bother sending them up to meet our bombers.

    Would you have preferred we sent out millions of soldiers in a meat grinder, Forcing them to kill women and children attacking them ?
  100. Profile photo of NottaSpy
    NottaSpy Male 40-49
    881 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 12:20 pm
    @CrakrJak, is it your contention that there were no military targets that would have proved the power of the nuclear bomb without massive loss of human life? What kind of Christian are you?
  101. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 12:21 pm
    almightybob1: Your comebacks are getting pretty ridiculous now. `Picking nits` isn`t gaining you any points.
  102. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 12:26 pm
    NottaSpy: I`m saying that even if we had wasted a bomb doing so, It wouldn`t have swayed Hirohito. As I said before, Even the 2 a-bombs we did drop on his subjects didn`t sway him. Only the threat of more (Including the potential of one being dropped on his own head) did. Hirohito was willing to sacrifice everyone, To fight to the last woman and child. We saved those women and children from his decreed fate.
  103. Profile photo of NottaSpy
    NottaSpy Male 40-49
    881 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 12:36 pm
    @CrakrJak, fascinating logic (NOT!). Nothing you have said explains how our Christian values drove us to destroy massive numbers of human lives. We didn`t even try using the bomb on a military target. Still would have sent a strong message, and we obviously had a 2nd bomb to use on a city if it was not successful.
  104. Profile photo of kribbe
    kribbe Male 18-29
    2006 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 12:38 pm
    @crackr, yet i see no difference between you and bob other than the sides both of you are defending.
  105. Profile photo of Animecha
    Animecha Male 18-29
    147 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 12:44 pm
    "Christians have compassion, Even for those that are not Christian. We give more and more generous with our money and time than any other religion on earth."

    You don`t think that has more to do with being the largest religion on earth living in the wealthiest society? Christians are no more or less ethical then any other human being, in fact if you look at societies where the populous is more inclined towards disbelief in any god teen pregnancy and violent crime is much lower.
  106. Profile photo of SomeShoes
    SomeShoes Male 13-17
    2056 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 12:50 pm
    hold on, what happened to 40% of americans not even believing in god?

    bloody hell, just idiotic
  107. Profile photo of cobrakiller
    cobrakiller Male 18-29
    7423 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 12:50 pm
    unmercyfuldu, and you two both seem to have missed my point; skaterboy17 had said that there was evidence against there being a god, when in reality there is no possibility of there being such evidence. since notallowed decided to be a smartass, so did i.
  108. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 1:03 pm
    NottaSpy: Your obviously not listening then, And don`t want to. I`ve explained very clearly how it saved millions of lives and shortened the end of war. I guess you`d rather have something to blame Christians for in your arguments than own up to the facts of history.
  109. Profile photo of Pooptart19
    Pooptart19 Male 18-29
    2442 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 1:10 pm
    You guys, trying to get CrakrJak to question the foundation of his religious beliefs is utterly useless. He has different standards of evidence and you`re better off trying to teach Latin to a schnauzer.
  110. Profile photo of madduck
    madduck Female 50-59
    7421 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 1:11 pm
    I am sure these stats are skewed. We have no idea where in the US people were polled, how big the poll etc. Fine, I accept that lots of people still believe in god, but to believe that so many people believe in intercession is just ridiculous.
  111. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 1:12 pm
    "Christians are no more or less ethical then any other human being, in fact if you look at societies where the populous is more inclined towards disbelief in any god teen pregnancy and violent crime is much lower."

    That solely depends on your definition of "Ethics". Is it ethical to kill the unborn or elderly ?

    Also, teen pregnancy and crime statistics have nothing to do with religion.
  112. Profile photo of NottaSpy
    NottaSpy Male 40-49
    881 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 1:14 pm
    @CrakrJak, and its the lack of reasoning that you have showed that must explain how you can rationalize your belief in Christianity. Let me make it plain for you.

    Lets limit this to just 2 options for the President:
    1) Drop the first bomb on a military target. When that doesn`t work, drop a 2nd on a city.
    2) Drop both bombs on cities.

    Option 1 kill less people. Option 2 kills more people. Both make the same exact point to the Japanese. You have not explained how option 2 is the better option. You are the one who brought this up as an example of Christian values. Please explain how the slaughter of civilians promotes your Christian ideals.
  113. Profile photo of Pooptart19
    Pooptart19 Male 18-29
    2442 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 1:15 pm
    Also, teen pregnancy and crime statistics have nothing to do with religion.

    Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
  114. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 1:18 pm
    Pooptart19: That`s because I have well rooted foundations.

    Also, I believe it`s likely possible to teach a dog to howl `Nosce te ipsum` but it wouldn`t know what it means.
  115. Profile photo of Almighty_Jew
    Almighty_Jew Male 18-29
    103 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 1:18 pm
    YEAH WELL, I CAN ARGUE TOO!! RELIGION IS FOR POOPY-HEADS, SO IS ATHEISM SO =P.
  116. Profile photo of Pooptart19
    Pooptart19 Male 18-29
    2442 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 1:21 pm
    Pooptart19: That`s because I have well rooted foundations.

    Is is just me or did anyone else imagine Crakr doing a Z-snap when thinking up that statement?

    Oh no you di`n`t! xD
  117. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 1:24 pm
    NottaSpy: A-bombs are not like today`s smart bombs, When they explode they take out many square miles and the fallout harms many more.

    As I explained before, Hiroshima & Nagasaki were both military targets.

    You however don`t accept that, You want to believe America & Christians are bloodthirsty and evil, So be it.
  118. Profile photo of brutalnewt
    brutalnewt Male 30-39
    111 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 1:26 pm
    The rebuilding of Japan after WW2 was to provide a capitalist nation in the east as part of the effort to limit the influence of communist Russia. It wasn`t any kind of generosity on the US part. Also, dropping the A-bombs was a political move, not military. The first one was to show the world what the US could do, the second was to show that we were capable of repeating it at will.

    More on topic: religious arguments are stupid.
  119. Profile photo of NottaSpy
    NottaSpy Male 40-49
    881 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 1:38 pm
    @CrakrJak, then back to the question, did every single military target have a large civilian population? They couldn`t find one military target that wouldn`t have needlessly killed thousands of people? Not one?

    I never said Americans are bloodthirsty, you need to stop having your brain mashed up by Fox News. In fact, if you look back, I said most people are generous.

    I am an American, who is obviously not a Christian, and I am arguing that we could have accomplished the same outcome with a lot less loss of life.

    In your attempt to prove that Christians are the only good people, you have picked a horrible example. You follow Jesus and yet you defend our use of nuclear weapons. You give the impression that Jesus approves of us nuking entire cities to hell. You are exactly why Christians are so very dangerous to modern life and you don`t even have the faintest idea how your twisted beliefs can be the end of us all.
  120. Profile photo of iceblack
    iceblack Male 18-29
    551 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 1:40 pm
    Where were this guys making this poll?
    Outside of a church?

    82% seems waaaaaay too much for me
  121. Profile photo of Fatninja01
    Fatninja01 Male 30-39
    25406 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 1:44 pm
    Wow religion on IAB, didnt expect that!
  122. Profile photo of Dakkar
    Dakkar Male 18-29
    1256 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 1:46 pm
    The ultimate mistake on both sides is believing science and religion are in conflict. Despite the fact that the leaders on both sides have spoken to the contrary, their followers seem to blatantly ignore it.

    Is it because we don`t want people to live their own lives and be happy? Do some atheists take their passive-aggressive approach as a subconscious way to rescue religious persons from their "ignorant ways"? Do religious types give out free Bibles for the same reason?

    Atheists claim a world without religion would be a infinitely better place. The stoutly religious claim that without it, the world would crumble. I`m of the opinion that if we allow people to be happy and live their own lives, following whatever creed they wish, then we`ll all feel a lot better and saner.

    This, of course, may not hold in every single instance; I am a realist. But it is a good template doctrine.
  123. Profile photo of Dakkar
    Dakkar Male 18-29
    1256 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 2:02 pm
    "Option 1 kill less people. Option 2 kills more people. Both make the same exact point to the Japanese."

    That is completely untrue. The U.S. military looked at numerous targets for the bombs. They had Japanese cultural experts to help them in this decision. In general, they were faced with 3 types of targets, high-pop./low-military value targets, intermediate-pop./intermediate-military value targets, and low-pop./high-military value targets.

    Kyoto and Tokyo were not bombed because of the ethical problems of destroying high population areas. Also, they were concerned about destroying spiritual centers in these cities. All of this would make occupation very difficult.

    High value military targets were also not chosen. They felt it would embolden to populace, and the impact would not have been enough to force the Emperor`s hand. Note - A number of his top military officials were hell-bent on fighting to the last man, military and civilian.
  124. Profile photo of MagsHeadroom
    MagsHeadroom Male 18-29
    86 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 2:08 pm
    Dakkar, atheists don`t claim that the world would be better without religion. In fact, if religion was true, the world would probably be a much better place filled with moral justice and afterlife - atheists just realise that that isn`t true. You`re thinking of antitheists, I think.
  125. Profile photo of Dakkar
    Dakkar Male 18-29
    1256 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 2:09 pm
    So, the U.S. military chose two industrial centers. They didn`t have the population of Kyoto and Tokyo, and lacked the spiritual history. Plus, as Crakr pointed out, they did contain military targets. Also, Hiroshima and Nagasaki were chosen because they had mountains/hills. This geographical feature would help absorb some of the destructive power. Hitting a city on a plain would be much more destructive.

    Also, the assertion that showing the Emperor and military leaders the power of the bombs would have forced their surrender is unfounded. Military experts at the time and current historians generally agree that using the weapons on people was the only way they would work.

    I know this really isn`t part of the whole thread. But I enjoy military history, particularly WWII, and I can`t help it when something needs to be corrected.
  126. Profile photo of Dragonlord
    Dragonlord Male 18-29
    734 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 2:15 pm
    Matthew 10:34 . Apparently his plan for some people is to manifest himself as a human AND SLAY THEM WITH HIS SWORD! HELL YEAH!!!!!
  127. Profile photo of Dakkar
    Dakkar Male 18-29
    1256 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 2:17 pm
    I`ve heard numerous self-professed atheists on this site and in my experiences, particularly on my campus, that make that exact claim. Whether or not they are truly atheists is for another argument.

    And you`re only considering a "Christian" benevolent deity. I could argue that all of the perceived "badness" in the world is due to a vengeful deity that offers no afterlife.

    There is no way for me to consider the question you posed though, because it is invalid. You have made the assumption that if some deity exists then the world would much better as a direct result; the world is not good, therefore there is no deity.

    But good is a matter of opinion. Plus, as I have stated, there is no reason that it must be a benevolent deity.

    Overall, we cannot apply human logic to explain anything supernatural, real or not. That is the basis of faith. And I claim trying to rend people of that faith, be it atheist or religous, is wrong.
  128. Profile photo of ZNaught
    ZNaught Male 13-17
    351 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 2:23 pm
    Guys, I understand it may be difficult, however if you guys think this makes people stupid and that clearly there is no intelligent design, maybe give reasons. Back up your claim. As they stand now, I have just as much of an authority to claim that Obama himself is jesus. (well many people think so anyway)
  129. Profile photo of NottaSpy
    NottaSpy Male 40-49
    881 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 2:27 pm
    @Dakkar, iIt was a political move, plain and simple. CrakrJak wants us to believe that we were acting as all good Christians should at the end of the war.

    I realize there were many factors that played into the decision, but they were political, not religious. You strengthen my argument by pointing out that the concerns were not from a Christian perspective. Had we been abiding by Christian values at the end of the war, we would have made protecting human life the paramount factor in choosing a target, and that was my point. Unfortunately I tried to boil it down to two options so he understood.

    BTW, I am not an Athiest, I have no idea if there is a God or not. I am anti-religion since religion deems it necessary to impose their belief system on our nation`s policy. That wouldn`t even bother me if their policies did not result in needless suffering and death.
  130. Profile photo of Dakkar
    Dakkar Male 18-29
    1256 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 2:38 pm
    It was not my intention to support anybody`s claim, as I said, I deviated from the discussion. My main point was to refute the claim that attacking military or civilian targets would have the same impact.

    This is probably a break between our opinions which will never be reconciled, but I don`t see many truly meaningful attempts to use religion to influence policy. Some fragments of Christianity do have a role in American society, but I feel it acts simply in a aesthetic role.

    Also, I feel there is no inherent causal relation between religion and "suffering and death". It is correlated, because of our inherent, violent nature, but of course, correlation does not imply causality.

    I claim that if religion did not exist, a scene like that between Palestine and Israel would be happening somewhere else, for a completely different reason. No matter how progressive people think humans are, our violence is an indelible mark on humanity`s character.
  131. Profile photo of Dakkar
    Dakkar Male 18-29
    1256 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 2:40 pm
    Note - Of course, abortion is a big topic with religion and policy. But the problem is not solely due to religion. I have atheist friends who have strong moral objections to some types of abortions. It`s largely a disconnect between those with moral objections and those that don`t. Once again, compromise on both sides is needed.
  132. Profile photo of ZNaught
    ZNaught Male 13-17
    351 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 2:48 pm
    @Dakkar: You cannot compromise when lives are being taken. If you were to do research, you would even find that pro-abortion scholars do not argue for abortion on the basis of life not existing. So it clearly does.
  133. Profile photo of Dakkar
    Dakkar Male 18-29
    1256 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 2:58 pm
    I`m not saying you`re right or wrong. But someone from the other aisle can claim, `there can be no compromise while women are not allowed control of their bodies.` You`ll never convince them and they`ll never convince you. Realistically, at some point, one the sides is going to "lose" and feel very disenfranchised.

    To avoid spinning our wheels now and alienating a side later, I feel that they should be willing to compromise. In my opinion it is the mature and rational thing to do. But if the sides refuse to, then I will apathetically turn my head and pretty much continue to ignore the whole thing.
  134. Profile photo of NottaSpy
    NottaSpy Male 40-49
    881 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 3:00 pm
    I agree, war would happen with or without religion. Same goes for charity. I also have strong anti-abortion views.

    What I`m talking about is teen pregnancy, stem cell research, molested choir boys, rich churches. Teen pregnancy can be reduced if it were not for the church`s influence. Less children would be molested if leaders weren`t forced to be celibate, and those who are molested wouldn`t suffer as much if the church didn`t sweep it under the rug. Stem cells have a very real possibility of saving many lives, but is inhibited by the church. Religion doesn`t create goods, but they earn and spend fabulous amounts of money that could have gone to better uses. Charity and generosity do not need massive infrastructure. Science yields far more rewards for the dollar than religion. Its almost as if religion gives a man a fish, and science teaches him how to fish.
  135. Profile photo of Dakkar
    Dakkar Male 18-29
    1256 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 3:12 pm
    But I don`t have a problem with people donating to religous affairs, since it is not mandated by the church or by the state.

    It`s a hazy area, true. More funds into cancer research could definitely help (unless it is already saturated in funds, I don`t know). But, again, I wouldn`t want any mandate from the state to give to these projects. Funnily, the government already does mandate it.

    In general, it`s cost-benefit analysis for me. Currently, people`s money is going to fund certain projects, help the unfortunate, etc. and it is taken from the government. With the money that remains, they can happily spend it on what they want, even if some believe they are just effectively throwing it away in some instances. I`m not sure if deviating from this course would help or hurt, but considering how far we`ve come, I support following the current doctrine. Until I feel sufficient evidence proves otherwise.
  136. Profile photo of Dakkar
    Dakkar Male 18-29
    1256 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 3:14 pm
    Okay, hopefully I`m going to take a break. Gotta work on revisions for a research paper. It never ends.
  137. Profile photo of skaterboy17
    skaterboy17 Male 18-29
    296 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 3:17 pm
    CrackJak, why are you against science and technology? God didn`t give you the internet, without science you wouldn`t be on IAB in the first place. Try sitting in your living room and see if God brings you a computer and internet connection.
  138. Profile photo of ZNaught
    ZNaught Male 13-17
    351 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 3:26 pm
    @Dakkar: Considering how life starts at conception and christians are clearly against murder, how can there be compromise?

    @NottaSpy:How is teen pregnancy increased because of the church? Just because priests are well priests, does not make them perfect or free from sin as you make it seem. Stem Cell research from the fetus has cured 0 diseases. Adult stem cells (those from adults, these do not cause the death of the person) have cured over 100. From what I have read (unfortunately I cannot find any statistics), the religious are more charitable. Of course you may say that science yields far more rewards than religion, if you are an atheist. To believers, religion offers the far more valuable eternal life.
  139. Profile photo of Dakkar
    Dakkar Male 18-29
    1256 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 3:32 pm
    Quickly - Mitigating factors such as rape, contraceptive failures, etc. Also, some may have to compromise their beliefs and accept life not at conception but after 1st trimester. Just as stout feminists would have to compromise that they do not have free rule over their bodies over the entire pregnancy.

    Making any of those compromises should not make anyone feel less of a Christian/Feminist/Whatever. It shouldn`t but it probably will...
  140. Profile photo of ZNaught
    ZNaught Male 13-17
    351 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 3:35 pm
    @Dakkar: Saying not to accept life until the first trimester is extremely absurd. If it is alive then, why is it not alive when it is conceived? The only difference is growth, not in actual substance.

    Why women think that just because a baby is IN them that it IS them confuses me. If you get a steel plate put in your body for one reason or another, it is not part of your body. Your body may utilize it, but it is not made of the cells that make up the rest of your body. Nor is a baby.
  141. Profile photo of Dakkar
    Dakkar Male 18-29
    1256 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 3:49 pm
    For the same reason an atomic pile 1g under critical mass is not considered a bomb. All the parts are there, just some addition is missing. That`s at least one argument. Again, this is not necessarily my position.

    The fact of the matter is, no matter how correct people think they are on either side of the abortion debate, they will never be able to convince the other side. The topic has become too polarized.

    And I`ll be completely honest. The Pro-Life side is likely going to lose pretty much completely at some time in the future, that`s my outlook on the American political horizon. If I`m right, I would expect some Pro-Life supporters to be willing to compromise now and get some victories and not submit to an "unconditional surrender".
  142. Profile photo of NottaSpy
    NottaSpy Male 40-49
    881 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 3:49 pm
    @ZNaught, insisting on abstinence only in the schools has been proven to increase teen pregnancy. Attacking planned parenthood and any condom use increases teen pregnancy.

    Exactly, stem cells from the fetus hasn`t lived up to its promise because religion stepped in and utterly destroyed that line of research. That forced researchers to find an alternative, such as adult stem cells. That put the field behind by up to a decade. There are people dying right now that we possibly could have saved.

    Check Fox News, I`m sure they can point you to something showing religious people are more charitable. First, show me that it is true, then show me that religion causes charity, and not that charitable people are drawn to religion. Next, show me that those who have devoted their lives to science in order to help people were included in your statistics.

    I would rather not have eternal life since having it would require me to praise and worship the murderous God of t
  143. Profile photo of seabass101dg
    seabass101dg Male 18-29
    478 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 3:55 pm
    Im not gonna make a long post so im just gonna say: FAIL
  144. Profile photo of _kiersten_
    _kiersten_ Female 18-29
    1684 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 4:16 pm
    Hai. I am Atheist, I don`t like that you believe in something. Stop that now. Its bad.

    Orly? Hai, I am Christian, I don`t like that you don`t believe in something. So YOU stop that.

    And that is basically how every single religious conversation is.
  145. Profile photo of ZNaught
    ZNaught Male 13-17
    351 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 4:21 pm
    @NottaSpy: I never said that that should be the only thing being taught in schools. Planned parent hood is effectively targeting minorities. Most planned parent hood locations are within areas of high minority population, and thus the 12% african american population accounts for 35% of all abortions in the US or 1/3 of the african american population.

    Why pursue that field if it has yielded no results when there is a viable moral solution? Even if it did save lives, it is taking them. How could you have the morality to be willing to take innocent life to save others? Do you approve of using other humans as test subject to possibly improve medicine against their will? What is the difference?

    As I stated, I cannot find statistics. Why don`t you find me statistics arguing the opposite? Again, If I do not have statistics I cannot prove anything, nor can you prove the contrary.

    How is God murderous?
  146. Profile photo of _kiersten_
    _kiersten_ Female 18-29
    1684 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 4:25 pm
    @Znaught, You do kind of have a point with the minority part of Planned Parenthood. Here where I live its about 90% African American, and everyone is very poor, each of the planned parenthood locations are located in the poor neighborhoods, however, whenever I have been to the more upper class, and white cities I can`t even seem to find one anywhere. BUT. I am just saying I can see where you are coming from in THAT point.
  147. Profile photo of _kiersten_
    _kiersten_ Female 18-29
    1684 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 4:28 pm
    Oh. And since Nottaspy kind of mentioned it. Teaching abstinence to children is so...stupid. Maybe if people would actually teach about the consequences of sex, plus inform us on the ways to prevent it, teenage girls wouldn`t get as pregnant as much. But thats just my opinion :D
  148. Profile photo of ZNaught
    ZNaught Male 13-17
    351 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 4:28 pm
    @_kiersten_ Apart from the immorality of abortion as it is, it is clear that Planned Parenthood is clearly set up with the purpose of thinning out the minorities. Why? I have no idea.
  149. Profile photo of ZNaught
    ZNaught Male 13-17
    351 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 4:30 pm
    @_kiersten_ Well, considering I go to an extremely Roman Catholic school (I myself am not Catholic), we don`t solely talk about abstinence. They also teach us about the consequences and statistics of premarital sex, such as the much higher divorce rate.
  150. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5385 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 4:43 pm
    If 82% of America Believes in God, does that mean that 18% are making decisions to take God out of things like School?

  151. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5385 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 4:45 pm
    The problem with any sort of religious debate is thus: Every decent conversation about religion online is soon over taken by extremists on both sides.
  152. Profile photo of _kiersten_
    _kiersten_ Female 18-29
    1684 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 4:48 pm
    I don`t think there purpose is to thin out minorities...Planned parenthood are placed in those regions for a reason. To help the lower income people. It`s not like its ONLY for abortion. You can get pills, check ups and condoms for free. That, and plenty of richer white people get abortions, I am sure they are better at hiding it too.
  153. Profile photo of almightybob1
    almightybob1 Male 18-29
    4290 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 4:48 pm
    teen pregnancy and crime statistics have nothing to do with religion.

    -.-
    Come on now Crackr.

    Increased crime rates amongst Christians, when Christianity explicitly states "thou shalt not steal".
    Increased murder rates amongst Christians, when Christianity explicitly states "thou shalt not kill".
    Higher divorce rates amongst Christians, when Jesus explicitly forbids divorce in Mark 10:2-12.
    Higher abortion rates amongst Christians than amongst atheists.

    More secular areas obey the rules of Christianity better than more religious areas.

    Increased teen pregnancies and STD rates amongst Christians, because the sex education is vastly inferior or non-existent. It clearly shows that religious views do not stop people having extramarital sex, it only stops them having safe extramarital sex.


    These are all documented causal relationships. I will provide references if you want.
  154. Profile photo of NottaSpy
    NottaSpy Male 40-49
    881 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 5:00 pm
    @ZNaught, I don`t care if you said it or not. The point is, abstinence only in schools increases teen pregnancy and it has church backing, which was my point.

    I also don`t care who planned parenthood targets, they provide a valuable service in preventing unplanned pregnancies. The point is that they are targeted by churches, reducing access to those valuable services.

    You are the one who made the assertion that Christians are more charitable. I call bullpoo, so it is on you to show something to back it up.

    How is God murderous? Really? Umm, try reading the Bible. God is either outright killing people or ordering believers to kill people. The God of the Old Testament is a willful and violent, and He is unpredictable in shallow, ego driven kind of way. The only thing boundless about him is his eagerness to take offense and punish us.
  155. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 5:12 pm
    Increased murder rates amongst Christians, when Christianity explicitly states "thou shalt not kill".

    No, it doesn`t. That`s a mistranslation. There are numerous orders to kill in the Christian bible. Killing is not only allowed, but often required.

    Most Christians are at least fairly decent people and very few kill in accordance with those orders, but it`s completely wrong to say that Christianity forbids killing.
  156. Profile photo of ZNaught
    ZNaught Male 13-17
    351 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 5:13 pm
    @_kiersten_: To help lower income people with what? Achieving the the many emotional after affects of abortion? As for birth control, it is essentially abortion.

    @almightybob1: A distinction needs to be made between true Christians and those who simply believe in some guy named Jesus.
    References would be appreciated.

    @NottaSpy: Church backing? I would think my Catholic school with our own dominican priests would be about as inline with church teaching as possible. Could you be wrong? Please cite.

    Planned pregnancy. Funny thing is that sex is designed for pregnancy, people these days act as if it is a side effect. IT IS THE PURPOSE. If you are unwilling to get pregnant, why are you having sex at all? Unless of course you are unaware of the purpose of sex?

    http://atheistethicist.blogspot. com/2010/01/atheist- charity.html (remove spaces)That is one source I have found. It would be unusual for an atheist to give this information as it only hurts
  157. Profile photo of ZNaught
    ZNaught Male 13-17
    351 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 5:19 pm
    @NottaSpy: Murder is the killing of innocent people, of which God does not do.

    As Angilion said, "ratsakh" in the original hebrew means murder and not kill. Very different words.
  158. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 5:23 pm
    Murder is the killing of innocent people, of which God does not do.

    Only because your god declares them to be guilty before (or after) killing them and has the fallback position that all humans are guilty anyway.

    Going by your argument, many killers are not murderers because they don`t regard their victims as innocent.
  159. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 5:25 pm
    Edit and repost because of a mistake:

    They also teach us about the consequences and statistics of premarital sex, such as the much higher divorce rate.


    They`re teaching you to make unsupported assumptions in line with their religion and to not think rationally if it means questioning them. You`ve absorbed a classic logical fallacy without realising it - confusing correlation with causation.

    There`s a far more likely causal link, namely that the same religion that forbids premarital sex either forbids or at least very strongly discourages divorce. So the people who follow religious orders regarding premarital sex are likely to also follow those religious orders regarding divorce.

    So the causal link is between religion and premarital sex and between religion and divorce, not between premarital sex and divorce.

    To put it another way, the religion coerces people to stay in unhappy relationships. I don`t regard that as a good
  160. Profile photo of ZNaught
    ZNaught Male 13-17
    351 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 5:28 pm
    @Angilion: I am not referring to the subjective innocent but rather the objective.

    And possibly so, many killers may not be murdering but rather killing, however a just government should be the one to enforce such laws.
  161. Profile photo of NottaSpy
    NottaSpy Male 40-49
    881 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 5:30 pm
    Your link is a total fail, and led to me finding actual studies that show you are wrong. That link is to a blog (ie. just someone elses opinion). But in the comments below, someone included a link to actual studies that destroy your assertion: http://www.alfiekohn. org/miscellaneous/religionhelp. htm (remove spaces)

    Church backing: http://www.medicalnewstoday. com/articles/26091. php (remove spaces)

    Your opinions about sex are irrelevant. Kids will have sex regardless of what you think or preach about it. We can`t stop them from having sex, but we can help them prevent unwanted pregnancies. Unwanted pregnancies leads to needless suffering. That was the point. I will not be drawn into debating your 2,000 year old morals.
  162. Profile photo of catbarf
    catbarf Male 18-29
    1455 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 5:30 pm
    "Funny thing is that sex is designed for pregnancy, people these days act as if it is a side effect. IT IS THE PURPOSE. If you are unwilling to get pregnant, why are you having sex at all? Unless of course you are unaware of the purpose of sex?"

    Thanks to birth control, modern technology permits the purpose of sex to be recreation, fulfilling a biological impulse without the added complication of an actual child.

    "A distinction needs to be made between true Christians and those who simply believe in some guy named Jesus. "

    Oh, I get it. A TRUE Christian is just one that agrees with you. That way you can make absurd claims about Christians and tautologically demonstrate them to be true by defining TRUE Christians to be that specific group.
  163. Profile photo of ZNaught
    ZNaught Male 13-17
    351 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 5:34 pm
    @Angilion I was providing one example. However there are more such as HPV. HPV cannot be prevented by using condoms and is almost impossible to prevent.
  164. Profile photo of almightybob1
    almightybob1 Male 18-29
    4290 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 5:35 pm
    No, it doesn`t. That`s a mistranslation.

    Fine.
    Increased murder rates amongst Christians, when Christianity explicitly states "thou shalt not murder".
  165. Profile photo of catbarf
    catbarf Male 18-29
    1455 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 5:37 pm
    "HPV cannot be prevented by using condoms and is almost impossible to prevent."

    Bzzt, wrong. A vaccine is easily available and highly effective in preventing infection.
  166. Profile photo of NottaSpy
    NottaSpy Male 40-49
    881 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 5:38 pm
    "Murder is the killing of innocent people, of which God does not do."

    LOL, You tried to defend your God from my accusation that he is murderous by defending the needless slaughter of people? You have just shown how ignorant, callus, and dangerous religion can be.
  167. Profile photo of almightybob1
    almightybob1 Male 18-29
    4290 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 5:46 pm
    ZNaught, all the references can be found in the description of this video. It has a few other interesting statistics too - for example, atheists make up over 10% of America`s population, but less than 0.25% of its prisoners.
  168. Profile photo of ZNaught
    ZNaught Male 13-17
    351 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 5:48 pm
    @catbarf: I never said it was not possible to have recreational sex, I was saying that that is the purpose of the act and people should not be surprised if pregnancy is the result. It is like drunk driving, sure you can do it, but you shouldn`t be surprised nor be the victim if you somehow get in an accident. It was entirely your fault in the first place and you should take responsibility.

    No, A true christian is one who actually practices their religion, not one who just calls them self a christian because they believe that Jesus was God`s son. Believing that is not worth much if you do not follow his teachings. I could call myself a Muslum, but if I do not follow the Koran, what is that worth?

    @NottaSpy: Yea, probably should have read the whole article. However, even if I am wrong on the issue (I am not going to bother doing any more research), that still does not change much.

    I am quite sure there are people that have not had sex because of their religio
  169. Profile photo of theHUSHSOUND
    theHUSHSOUND Female 13-17
    543 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 5:56 pm
    So we had a band festival coming up soon. My band director had written three things on the board that were, according to him, necessary for a good performance:
    1. Rehearsal
    2. Practice
    3. ?
    As he was talking about the third point, it became prayer. He said that praying is an important part and can improve our playing. If we pray we can do better!
    As an atheist, I was incredibly offended. Violation of constitutional rights much? It was so uncalled for and I was appalled my band director would seriously go there. The third thing should be concentration, not prayer.
    IMO, praying to ask for advice is kind of irrational. It`s like asking for answer from an inanimate object. I can see where people come from, but it`s not my thing.
    Coexist, people!
  170. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 6:10 pm
    @Angilion I was providing one example. However there are more such as HPV. HPV cannot be prevented by using condoms and is almost impossible to prevent.

    Since there are vaccines for HPV now, it`s very easy to prevent. Just get vaccinated before having any sex. HPV could be eradicated as effectively as smallpox was, if an entire generation was vaccinated in childhood. Or even just vaccinate girls, as the only risk with HPV is that some strains of it can be a factor in causing cervical cancer.

    So so far you`ve given one example that`s completely fictional and one example that`s factually wrong.

    I think you`re grasping at straws to pretend that your religion`s fetish with controlling people by controlling their sex lives has a rational basis and is good for the victims (and yes, I do mean `victims`).
  171. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 6:18 pm
    No, A true christian is one who actually practices their religion, not one who just calls them self a christian because they believe that Jesus was God`s son. Believing that is not worth much if you do not follow his teachings.

    Believing that is the essence of Christianity. Whatever orders you impose on top of that are from other people. You don`t know the teachings of Jesus. You know what some people have told you to believe are the teachings of Jesus. Not necessarily the same thing.

    A person could reject some of it and still be a true Christian. There are many sects of Christianity that have different ideas as to what Jesus` teachings were, so it`s hardly a new thing.

    You don`t even have to really believe the son thing in any kind of literal way. It is possible to interpret it as a spiritual link, i.e. god the father. The most famous Christian prayer ever starts right off the bat by saying that *everyone* is a son or daughter of god.
  172. Profile photo of DeutschDude9
    DeutschDude9 Male 18-29
    473 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 6:38 pm
    I call B.S. with the study in general. Americans have to be smarter than that.
  173. Profile photo of polkafromny
    polkafromny Female 18-29
    376 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 6:45 pm
    "According to the findings, better educated and wealthier Americans are less likely to believe God plays an active role in their life." I like that one.
  174. Profile photo of _kiersten_
    _kiersten_ Female 18-29
    1684 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 7:30 pm
    To help lower income people get things like birth control, condoms, checkups and any assistance of that kind for a cheap, or free price.
  175. Profile photo of _kiersten_
    _kiersten_ Female 18-29
    1684 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 7:31 pm
    Also, I hope you aren`t saying birth control is on the same level as abortion, because if so you are quite stupid. You aren`t killing a "child" There never was a child, even without birth control there isnt a guarantee a child would happen.
  176. Profile photo of LazyMe484
    LazyMe484 Male 18-29
    10443 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 9:08 pm
    "The majority of Americans think God intervenes in day-to-day life."

    So, all this time I`ve been saying Americans are stupid, but now I`ve got, like, facts to back it up? Awezome!

    ... but not really. Those figures are off.

    These are more accurate, seeing as how they`re, you know... real.
  177. Profile photo of drips
    drips Male 30-39
    904 posts
    March 19, 2010 at 9:43 pm
    So happy I`m atheist and don`t have to attribute the ups and downs of life to a loving or punitive deity.

    Also it`s hilarious that people use stats like this to then reason that "Americans are stupid" because religious beliefs aren`t an exclusively American concept. Hopefully humans can evolve out of that mystical woo-woo belief crap someday soon. (I include homeopathy, telekinesis, religion, tarot, etc. in the `crap` category)
  178. Profile photo of antondekat
    antondekat Male 30-39
    2 posts
    March 20, 2010 at 1:52 am
    Thanks for that link LazyMe484, pretty interesting. I think this is a case of half assed journalism. The study must have been on people who considered themselves devoted Christians or something. The last sentence ""However, my findings indicate that while this is true among those less committed to religious life, it is not the case for people who are more committed to religious participation and rituals." I think highlights this.
    It`s insane to think that 82 pct of all Americans consult God when making decisions.
  179. Profile photo of aseirinn
    aseirinn Male 70 & Over
    877 posts
    March 20, 2010 at 2:55 am
    GOD DOES NOT EXIST !!!...RELIGON IS A `SELF CONTROL` MECHANISM DREAMT UP BY MEN A VERY LONG TIME AGO...THERE IS NO HEAVEN, HELL, SANTA CLAUSE, TOOTH FAIRY OR EASTER BUNNY...ITS AN ILLUSION!!!...just my opinion!
  180. Profile photo of Max_Normal
    Max_Normal Male 30-39
    501 posts
    March 20, 2010 at 6:01 am
    He sure does, obesity followed by frailty followed by oblivion.
  181. Profile photo of redspade
    redspade Male 13-17
    150 posts
    August 19, 2010 at 11:15 pm
    HORRAY for the bitter reality that we are all meaningless specs floating through the universe and all existence of life is a mere coincidenccccccce!!

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