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Date: 03/31/10 04:01 PM

204 Responses to It`s The Real-Life Face Of Jesus

  1. Profile photo of cobrakiller
    cobrakiller Male 18-29
    7426 posts
    March 31, 2010 at 2:33 pm
    Link: It`s The Real-Life Face Of Jesus - Thanks to new technology, a 3D model was made from the Shroud of Turin. This is what he used to look like--so they say.
  2. Profile photo of dotrom
    dotrom Female 18-29
    93 posts
    March 31, 2010 at 4:15 pm
    the shroud is wrapped in controversy

    Punny!
  3. Profile photo of a1butcher
    a1butcher Male 40-49
    4812 posts
    March 31, 2010 at 4:21 pm
    Bring on yet another flame war. God smite me now!!
  4. Profile photo of Wassup287
    Wassup287 Male 13-17
    45 posts
    March 31, 2010 at 4:22 pm
    Ignorant people.
  5. Profile photo of MadhatterVTR
    MadhatterVTR Male 18-29
    198 posts
    March 31, 2010 at 4:24 pm
    jesus is black... duh watch dogma...
  6. Profile photo of Fatninja01
    Fatninja01 Male 30-39
    25408 posts
    March 31, 2010 at 4:24 pm
    Wow thats crazy!
  7. Profile photo of a1butcher
    a1butcher Male 40-49
    4812 posts
    March 31, 2010 at 4:27 pm
    Hey, I just noticed at 1:42 they show his nut sack!
  8. Profile photo of pui
    pui Female 18-29
    3575 posts
    March 31, 2010 at 4:29 pm
    Eh, I don`t buy it.

    However, I agree, the 3D render is pretty hawt. I`d assume the son of God would be a fine specimen of a man anyway :P
  9. Profile photo of ScottSerious
    ScottSerious Male 18-29
    5316 posts
    March 31, 2010 at 4:34 pm
    who?
  10. Profile photo of duckflash
    duckflash Female 13-17
    570 posts
    March 31, 2010 at 4:39 pm
    jeez when will people get over worshipping some dude who claimed to be the son of god, and a virgin, and probably suffered from a mental disease like his parents.
  11. Profile photo of fiizok
    fiizok Male 40-49
    591 posts
    March 31, 2010 at 4:40 pm
    Looks a lot like Rasputin, actually.
  12. Profile photo of duckflash
    duckflash Female 13-17
    570 posts
    March 31, 2010 at 4:40 pm
    @madhattervtr, jesus is black??? *runs and downloads dogma*
  13. Profile photo of Batmanners
    Batmanners Male 18-29
    4007 posts
    March 31, 2010 at 4:43 pm
    Not loading for me.
  14. Profile photo of Lionhart2
    Lionhart2 Male 40-49
    8309 posts
    March 31, 2010 at 4:50 pm
    Jeepers, are people STILL insisting the Shroud of Turin is ANY face, let alone Jesus`? Apart from it having been disproved countless times, fold any cloth in half, put it in the bottom of your shed floor and make sure it gets damp, and voila, your very own Shroud!
  15. Profile photo of pui
    pui Female 18-29
    3575 posts
    March 31, 2010 at 4:51 pm
    Lionhart2, I`d totally try that, except I don`t want a bunch of pilgrims at my house :(
  16. Profile photo of obbycomma
    obbycomma Female 18-29
    315 posts
    March 31, 2010 at 4:51 pm
    Hokay. So, without wanting to start a flame war or anything like it, lemme just say I watched the whole program last night and it was fantastic. The digital rendering techniques and cg utilization are incredible. The evidence brought forth is also very interesting. I wish they hadn`t made him blink though. Creepy.
  17. Profile photo of umm_WTF
    umm_WTF Male 18-29
    31 posts
    March 31, 2010 at 5:00 pm
    ok so here`s something i think everyone can agree on, first of all everyone`s image of jesus is automatically wrong, why? because they assume he is white.
    this is impossible for the location and time from which jesus lived in, he would have been a very dark tan to brown.
  18. Profile photo of 2and2equals5
    2and2equals5 Male 18-29
    33 posts
    March 31, 2010 at 5:05 pm
    Say hello to Leonardo da Vinci.
  19. Profile photo of pui
    pui Female 18-29
    3575 posts
    March 31, 2010 at 5:08 pm
    lol, why do you assume *everyone* thinks Jesus was white? :P
  20. Profile photo of a1butcher
    a1butcher Male 40-49
    4812 posts
    March 31, 2010 at 5:10 pm
    What if Jesus actually looked like this guy?


  21. Profile photo of KoalaMeatPie
    KoalaMeatPie Male 18-29
    2582 posts
    March 31, 2010 at 5:10 pm
    "Took it to the public"
    Yeeeaaaahhhh because the Public really knows.
  22. Profile photo of Linkenberger
    Linkenberger Male 18-29
    1164 posts
    March 31, 2010 at 5:12 pm
    I still think they should put Jesus on currency somewhere. If anything it would make paying your local whore all the more uncomfortable.
  23. Profile photo of dapaperboy
    dapaperboy Male 13-17
    214 posts
    March 31, 2010 at 5:13 pm
    how could they get a skin tone/color from under a towel?

    lol@ pui and yes obbycomma the blink is very creepy and i totally agree with you umm WTF.
  24. Profile photo of zombieland
    zombieland Male 18-29
    418 posts
    March 31, 2010 at 5:15 pm
    Anything....ANYTHING from that long ago is subject to speculation. Especially the details. I do believe a man, led a religious rebellion against the roman government. From the time and location, it is VERY improbable he was a Caucasian.
  25. Profile photo of Dragonlord
    Dragonlord Male 18-29
    734 posts
    March 31, 2010 at 5:23 pm
    @a1butcher Actually, that`s probably more accurate. Certainly better than extrapolating from a know con. Also, I always knew Jesus had a huge fat nose.
  26. Profile photo of bakedBEAR
    bakedBEAR Male 13-17
    87 posts
    March 31, 2010 at 5:25 pm
    lol@ the Virgin Mary candle app for the iPhone on the side.
  27. Profile photo of a1butcher
    a1butcher Male 40-49
    4812 posts
    March 31, 2010 at 5:26 pm
    If Jesus actually looked like that guy, we would think he was a nut case.
    Well I wouldn`t... but I`d give him all my change, thats for sure!
  28. Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12151 posts
    March 31, 2010 at 5:29 pm
    The Shroud of frikkin` Turin? Seriously?
  29. Profile photo of pui
    pui Female 18-29
    3575 posts
    March 31, 2010 at 5:32 pm
    Isaiah 53:2b says "He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him, nothing in his appearance that we should desire him." Describes someone pretty average looking in appearance who does not stand out, or possibly someone even a little bad looking. Definitely not some beautiful, blue-eyed hunk of a man anyway. a1butcher`s depiction might not be far off :P
  30. Profile photo of MissMage
    MissMage Female 18-29
    697 posts
    March 31, 2010 at 5:32 pm
    "ok so here`s something i think everyone can agree on, first of all everyone`s image of jesus is automatically wrong, why? because they assume he is white.
    this is impossible for the location and time from which jesus lived in, he would have been a very dark tan to brown."

    People have a history depicting Jesus`s race based on their own because it makes him more relatable and personal to them. Though I`m pretty certain most people in this day and age recognize his true race and can connect that with how someone of that part of the world would have looked, though he doesn`t have to be THAT dark. Realistically he could have been any olive based shade as Isrealies tend to be.

    Growing up I imagined him a glowing wheat color. Lol.
  31. Profile photo of ajmullan
    ajmullan Male 18-29
    105 posts
    March 31, 2010 at 5:46 pm
    im catholic and still convinced that the shroud of Turin was faked by di Vinci or someone bad ass like tht. Yea, i mean i believe in jesus, and im sure he looked something remotely like that, but still. i think the shroud of Turin is faked.
  32. Profile photo of a1butcher
    a1butcher Male 40-49
    4812 posts
    March 31, 2010 at 5:53 pm
    He was probably ( like pui said ) just some plain old ordinary looking guy that we would never give a second glance at.
    The thing is, he had mega charisma, obviously, or we wouldn`t even know about the "man". I`m sure there was alot of guys claiming to be the son of god at that time. He just pulled it of better than the rest.
  33. Profile photo of belunan
    belunan Male 30-39
    1507 posts
    March 31, 2010 at 5:59 pm
    This is the religious equivalent of rubbernecking at a car accident. People are curious but nobody really cares.
  34. Profile photo of Fleh
    Fleh Male 18-29
    231 posts
    March 31, 2010 at 6:01 pm
    There were actually tons and tons of people claiming to be the son of god at the time. Jesus probably did exist, but he wasn`t the only "Saviour"...there were tons of others saying the same thing at the time of his existence....or at least that is what the history channel told me tonight. Either way, why do they always make him look white? HE WAS AN ARAB!!!!
  35. Profile photo of Fleh
    Fleh Male 18-29
    231 posts
    March 31, 2010 at 6:03 pm
    Jesus probably looked more like Osama than anyone else man, come on
  36. Profile photo of msieg007
    msieg007 Male 18-29
    2035 posts
    March 31, 2010 at 6:07 pm
    As others have stated, Jesus was Middle-Eastern and therefore would have had brown skin and curly hair.

    BUT HERE`S AN INTERESTING FACT!

    The common depiction of Jesus (white guy, flowing brown hair, RIDICULOUS abs) was actually based on a man called Charlemagne.

    Seriously, Google Image search Charlemagne and tell me he doesn`t look like Jesus. (Or should it be vice versa?)
  37. Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12151 posts
    March 31, 2010 at 6:07 pm
    A well-known scientific study found that he likely looked something like this:



    Full story here
  38. Profile photo of aradia670
    aradia670 Female 18-29
    35 posts
    March 31, 2010 at 6:08 pm
    @ajmullan: you`re right. it was di vinci.
  39. Profile photo of ggolbez
    ggolbez Male 18-29
    1933 posts
    March 31, 2010 at 6:10 pm
    How can you get a representation of a face that never existed?

    Also, got to love that their Jesus is white.
  40. Profile photo of lemurs366
    lemurs366 Female 18-29
    385 posts
    March 31, 2010 at 6:11 pm
    they did carbon dating on the cloth and found out it was made of cloth from i think the 1600s, so ya, defs not jesus
  41. Profile photo of a1butcher
    a1butcher Male 40-49
    4812 posts
    March 31, 2010 at 6:12 pm
    davy... thats a picture of you, for the sake of Christ, take it down!!!
  42. Profile photo of pui
    pui Female 18-29
    3575 posts
    March 31, 2010 at 6:12 pm
    davymid, cool link! I actually like that appearance better.
  43. Profile photo of lemurs366
    lemurs366 Female 18-29
    385 posts
    March 31, 2010 at 6:14 pm
    In conclusion to davy`s link, Jebus was totes really uggles
  44. Profile photo of yudontn0me
    yudontn0me Male 18-29
    845 posts
    March 31, 2010 at 6:14 pm
    im gonna say this once. not to troll, but cus its the truth. Jesus was black.
  45. Profile photo of a1butcher
    a1butcher Male 40-49
    4812 posts
    March 31, 2010 at 6:17 pm
    yea Fleh. There was a dozen guys claiming that at the time but what set this man "Jesus" apart was he was WAY more influential and charismatic than the rest. The guy told a great story and was very convincing.
    I think if he could see into the future and saw all the misery his words would create, then he wouldn`t have said a gawl dang thing.
  46. Profile photo of madest
    madest Male 40-49
    7379 posts
    March 31, 2010 at 6:17 pm
    Hey we found another way to make Jesus look white!
  47. Profile photo of aseirinn
    aseirinn Male 70 & Over
    877 posts
    March 31, 2010 at 6:21 pm
    this drivel is horrible to watch...nursery rhymes to keep the masses in the dark...why do the faithful always look for proofs?...because they really have no faith...
  48. Profile photo of Glendower
    Glendower Male 18-29
    337 posts
    March 31, 2010 at 6:21 pm
    The Shroud of Turin has been proven to be a fake. So they created an image of the guy who made a fake artifact sometime around the 13th century (give or take a hundred years. I dont remember exactly)

    And I`m supposed to care, why?
  49. Profile photo of Lionhart2
    Lionhart2 Male 40-49
    8309 posts
    March 31, 2010 at 6:27 pm
    Haha Davy, so you DO read my blog then!!!

    (Well... back when I could be bothered updating it that is).
  50. Profile photo of jak22
    jak22 Male 18-29
    154 posts
    March 31, 2010 at 6:30 pm
    umm, first jesus was a middle eastern jew. that guy is pretty european looking. also, the common image of christ is really just a roman man named cesaer who an artist used to try to depict jesus`s image, a hundred years or so after christ died. cesear was anglo saxan, so the common image was used in europe throughout its conversion. so, this whole thing is sorta bullpoo. there is more of a chance he was balck than white. just sayin. an im white, so its not a racial bias.
  51. Profile photo of a1butcher
    a1butcher Male 40-49
    4812 posts
    March 31, 2010 at 6:30 pm
    Thanks for the link Davy.. I`ve seen it before a while ago but its good to read it again.
  52. Profile photo of Raokin
    Raokin Female 18-29
    456 posts
    March 31, 2010 at 6:36 pm
    To me, the Jesus in that video looks like he could have been Middle Eastern. If he existed, he wouldn`t have been very dark; he would have looked like modern people from Palestine, Lebanon, Jordan or Syria (Israel not so much, because a lot of the Jews living there probaly have European blood). The Middle East is so close to Europe that I`m sure quite a few Middle Easterners could pass for European and vice versa.
  53. Profile photo of Hybrovi
    Hybrovi Male 18-29
    79 posts
    March 31, 2010 at 6:44 pm
    For those saying that the Shroud was "proven" to be fake, think again. The scientists that did their little experiments with carbon dating and such admitted they made mistakes in the process.

    Not saying this means that it isn`t a fake though, just pointing out it has yet to be conclusively proven.
  54. Profile photo of ElSombrero
    ElSombrero Male 13-17
    716 posts
    March 31, 2010 at 6:50 pm
    Glendower:

    Actually, the same scientist who declared it to be a fake later revised his hypothesis.

    He believes it to be from Jesus` time.

    The first carbon dating of the Shroud dated it to the 13th century.

    However, later investigation revealed that the piece of the Shroud the sample was taken from was French woven (old and new threads woven together) with thread from the 16th century while undergoing repairs.

    The wool thread from that time period combined with thread from Jesus` time would give a date of 13th century.

    So, in fact, they believe the actual shroud to be from Jesus` time.

    However, due to the conditions in which the Shroud is kept in, almost any carbon dating would be inaccurate.

    Only one carbon dating of the Shroud stands the chance to be accurate. It would have to be from a piece of the Shroud that was burnt in an accident.

    They are currently in the process of obtaining a piece of burnt shrou
  55. Profile photo of ElSombrero
    ElSombrero Male 13-17
    716 posts
    March 31, 2010 at 6:58 pm
    However, that`s not to say that the Shroud isn`t Jesus` or isn`t fake.

    It proves, by carbon-dating, that the cloth is from Jesus` time.

    It could very well be another guy. Or it could have been added on later.

    The mystery is how it got there. Some of the top experts studied this thing from top to bottom... no idea how it got there.

    And by the way, they really can`t tell skin color. So don`t assume it`s fake because of that (and he probably paled in death).

    And the not-curly hair may be simply the fact that they soaked him in oils and the like.

    All I`m saying is that we can`t disprove the Shroud. I`m not saying it`s real.
  56. Profile photo of tlshaman
    tlshaman Male 13-17
    378 posts
    March 31, 2010 at 6:58 pm
    "I don`t think this should be anyone face."

    WHAT?!!?
  57. Profile photo of LazyMe484
    LazyMe484 Male 18-29
    10443 posts
    March 31, 2010 at 7:15 pm
    HE`S A PIRATE!!

    YAARRR!!
  58. Profile photo of mervviscious
    mervviscious Male 40-49
    1794 posts
    March 31, 2010 at 7:22 pm
    hahahahahahahhahahahaha....Religion is funny..
  59. Profile photo of a1butcher
    a1butcher Male 40-49
    4812 posts
    March 31, 2010 at 7:25 pm
    ElSombrero>>"And by the way, they really can`t tell skin color. So don`t assume it`s fake because of that (and he probably paled in death). "

    Don`t forget.... he "didn`t die", or so they say

    Happy Easter all.
  60. Profile photo of pui
    pui Female 18-29
    3575 posts
    March 31, 2010 at 7:26 pm
    He died and then came back to life.
  61. Profile photo of Boadicea
    Boadicea Female 18-29
    1678 posts
    March 31, 2010 at 7:37 pm
    ...and then died again?
  62. Profile photo of Thetas
    Thetas Male 18-29
    1540 posts
    March 31, 2010 at 7:39 pm
    Is there nothing more important for a news station to report in the world than about a guy who did a 3D representation of Jesus` face and then running around asking people what they think of it?
  63. Profile photo of skullgrin
    skullgrin Male 18-29
    937 posts
    March 31, 2010 at 7:41 pm
    the shroud definetly ISNT jesus, since jesus never existed. the ONLY mention of jesus in history is the bible...thats it. If you want to believe in jesus then i guess you must also believe in the x-men, harry potter, and edward cullen..since they all have books too.
  64. Profile photo of pui
    pui Female 18-29
    3575 posts
    March 31, 2010 at 7:42 pm
    The Bible says he was taken up into Heaven in bodily form (Acts 1:9), soo not really? lol
  65. Profile photo of CinematicD
    CinematicD Female 18-29
    239 posts
    March 31, 2010 at 7:43 pm
    Jesus is hot lol
  66. Profile photo of _kiersten_
    _kiersten_ Female 18-29
    1684 posts
    March 31, 2010 at 7:50 pm
    Thats pretty cool o.o Jesus is looking nice ;D
  67. Profile photo of xKrazyKoalax
    xKrazyKoalax Male 18-29
    208 posts
    March 31, 2010 at 7:58 pm
    skullgrin you`re just a religion troller.
  68. Profile photo of trailleadr
    trailleadr Male 40-49
    715 posts
    March 31, 2010 at 7:59 pm
    Oh nice edit ABC. I watched this last night. He says, "does the shroud and my depiction look the same? no. It wouldn`t because the shroud is a 2d representation of a 3d shape." They edited it so he says "yeah" nice going, hacks!
  69. Profile photo of a1butcher
    a1butcher Male 40-49
    4812 posts
    March 31, 2010 at 7:59 pm
    Well,pui, the important thing is we get a long weekend out of it. J/K ;)
  70. Profile photo of skullgrin
    skullgrin Male 18-29
    937 posts
    March 31, 2010 at 8:02 pm
    "skullgrin you`re just a religion troller"

    do you want to show me where jesus was mentioned outside of the bible? the bible cant prove the bible. I`m sorry. Jesus never existed. If you want to try and talk about what someone looked like, lets first prove he was even a real person. No one, and i truley mean NO ONE, has been able to do this. Why? Because you cant prove something that does not exist. Jesus is a retelling of the story of Horus. Look it up if you do not believe me. If anyone is doing any trolling its the catholic church on all of you...
  71. Profile photo of fattpill
    fattpill Male 30-39
    255 posts
    March 31, 2010 at 8:05 pm
    I have an uncanny ability to start a flame war so sorry. The Bible says Jesus was beaten so bad that he didn`t even look like himself or even look like a man. The bible says you couldn`t tell what he looked like. Plus it says his beard was ripped out of his face. So why does the shroud have a beard on it. So if the shroud was put on a beaten swollen and damaged face so badly that you couldn`t even tell if it was a man the shroud would only be a big red stain not an imprint of a face. Praise Jesus for his sacrifice I hope you never have to say to God, "Sorry I didnt believe."
  72. Profile photo of skullgrin
    skullgrin Male 18-29
    937 posts
    March 31, 2010 at 8:07 pm
    unthinking faith would be an excellent question to ask the creator of the human mind
  73. Profile photo of pui
    pui Female 18-29
    3575 posts
    March 31, 2010 at 8:08 pm
    skullgrin,

    Roman Tacitus, Annals 15.44
    Flavius Josephus, Antiquities 18:3
    Julius Africanus, Extant Writings, 18
    Pliny the Younger, Letters 10:96
    The Babylonian Talmud, Sanhedrin 43a

    There are more but I don`t feel like finding them all for you. There are many secular references to the existence of Christ. Infact, we can reconstruct the Biblical story through secular writings: Jesus was called "the Christ", performed "magic", led people with new teachings, and was killed on passover. At the very least, he existed.
  74. Profile photo of skullgrin
    skullgrin Male 18-29
    937 posts
    March 31, 2010 at 8:11 pm
    none of those refrences you posted mention anything about jesus, what are you talking about?
  75. Profile photo of npdarren
    npdarren Male 18-29
    602 posts
    March 31, 2010 at 8:13 pm
    A 2-dimensional representation of someone`s face doesn`t look like that. I wish I knew how to link images to show what I mean. A 3D face/body/object translated to a 2D surface is stretched-out and very distorted.
  76. Profile photo of skullgrin
    skullgrin Male 18-29
    937 posts
    March 31, 2010 at 8:13 pm
    and what i mean by that is, nothing mentions jesus at the time of his supposed life. Everything is "after he died" which would be ater the bible/story was already told/written
  77. Profile photo of Pooptart19
    Pooptart19 Male 18-29
    2442 posts
    March 31, 2010 at 8:14 pm
    I think the real question here is... if you wear the Shroud of Turin as a cape, does it grant one superpowers? `Cause that would be nifty. :)
  78. Profile photo of fattpill
    fattpill Male 30-39
    255 posts
    March 31, 2010 at 8:15 pm
    Nice Skull grin just deny. You may not know what you are talking about so just deny. Where is Angillion when you need him. He is smart enough and he is agnostic.
  79. Profile photo of pui
    pui Female 18-29
    3575 posts
    March 31, 2010 at 8:16 pm
    Lol, this is why I don`t bother doing this on IAB. You clearly didn`t look them all up and study them in like, the 2 minutes it`s been since I posted my last comment. Nevermind, this is pointless.
  80. Profile photo of fattpill
    fattpill Male 30-39
    255 posts
    March 31, 2010 at 8:19 pm
    www.gotquestions.org/did-Jesus-exist.htm
  81. Profile photo of Nidonemo
    Nidonemo Male 18-29
    9311 posts
    March 31, 2010 at 8:28 pm
    Now make him say "I am Robo Jesus! I have come for your souls!"
  82. Profile photo of pui
    pui Female 18-29
    3575 posts
    March 31, 2010 at 8:29 pm
    LOL omg I wish they would do that! Or make him a character in Guitar Hero or something XD
  83. Profile photo of Maelstrom_x
    Maelstrom_x Male 18-29
    1883 posts
    March 31, 2010 at 8:32 pm
    The Shroud of Turin was shopped, I can tell from parts of the cloth and having seen a lot of shops in my time.
  84. Profile photo of a1butcher
    a1butcher Male 40-49
    4812 posts
    March 31, 2010 at 8:41 pm
    Debating Jesus on IAB is fruitless. Anyone with a brain knows they put a religion themed link up, on a regular basis, just to get the hits up and to get a nice high comment count to boot.
    Take a look back and you`ll see IAB does this and the comments go through the roof.
  85. Profile photo of a1butcher
    a1butcher Male 40-49
    4812 posts
    March 31, 2010 at 8:42 pm
    Oh. a guitar hero 3d shroud Jesus would be epic too
  86. Profile photo of skullgrin
    skullgrin Male 18-29
    937 posts
    March 31, 2010 at 8:44 pm
    "Nice Skull grin just deny. You may not know what you are talking about so just deny. Where is Angillion when you need him. He is smart enough and he is agnostic."

    i actually DO know what im talking about though. i`ve ALREADY done the research on this...extensively. I`ve been researching this topic for just about 10 years now, how about you?

    Exactly.
  87. Profile photo of Lionhart2
    Lionhart2 Male 40-49
    8309 posts
    March 31, 2010 at 8:47 pm
    @Maelstrom_x

    The Shroud of Turin was shopped, I can tell from the angels and having seen a lot of Jesus`s in my time.
  88. Profile photo of Jadavid
    Jadavid Male 18-29
    127 posts
    March 31, 2010 at 8:52 pm
    LOL @ lionhart
  89. Profile photo of pui
    pui Female 18-29
    3575 posts
    March 31, 2010 at 9:00 pm
    You are full of crap, skullgrin. If you had researched it 1) you would know those quotes do refer to someone that fits the description of Jesus Christ and 2) That most of the quotes I posted are written by scholars and historians who existed within the first century after Jesus died.

    If you have researched this, I`d expect a better argument.
  90. Profile photo of skullgrin
    skullgrin Male 18-29
    937 posts
    March 31, 2010 at 9:18 pm
    "You are full of crap, skullgrin. If you had researched it 1) you would know those quotes do refer to someone that fits the description of Jesus Christ and 2) That most of the quotes I posted are written by scholars and historians who existed within the first century after Jesus died. "

    1) that is inconclusive and therefore worthless
    2) after he died means nothing since there is no way of telling if the mention is based on anything of factual value or just hearsay.

    I`m looking for proof of his existence - which does not exist. You would think that if someone as influential as jesus, as supernatural as jesus, and as known as jeuss was there would be mention of him all over the place - yet there is not. There are only vague mentions of people that *might* have been him, or stories about him that were written after his story was conceived. Like i said; worthless.
  91. Profile photo of primetimekin
    primetimekin Male 18-29
    7936 posts
    March 31, 2010 at 9:18 pm
    I don`t know what to think.... about the Shroud of Turin that is. History channel I do not trust at all.
  92. Profile photo of skullgrin
    skullgrin Male 18-29
    937 posts
    March 31, 2010 at 9:19 pm
    look up horus...this is where the story of jesus and the entire catholic religion came from. Its just a retelling of an ancient story
  93. Profile photo of pui
    pui Female 18-29
    3575 posts
    March 31, 2010 at 9:26 pm
    How exactly are they "inconclusive"? These historians` writings are considered trusted by many as being accurate by today`s standards.

    Why exactly would someone living just 20 years after Jesus died not have any valid information about him? This is someone who has witnessed the early church growing in person and quite probably spoken to people who *were* there when Jesus was around and could testify to his existence.

    Also, there are many, many more writings referring to him than the ones I cited here.

    Anyway, I`m going to bed, but I seriously think you should *actually* research it. It`s interesting. My motto is "question everything" and I really think more people should live by that :)
  94. Profile photo of pui
    pui Female 18-29
    3575 posts
    March 31, 2010 at 9:28 pm
    LOL omg the whole Horus thing? Okay I`m not trying to debate whether or not the Bible is true here, just that a guy named Jesus existed and caused a stir. However, I took lots of art history, myths and legends and ancient history classes, and I can tell you right now that you need to do more research into that yourself.

    Anyway, I`m done with this for real this time.
  95. Profile photo of primetimekin
    primetimekin Male 18-29
    7936 posts
    March 31, 2010 at 9:29 pm
    skullgrin, most scholars have discredited the view the jesus never existed."There are those who argue that Jesus is a figment of the Church’s imagination, that there never was a Jesus at all. I have to say that I do not know any respectable critical scholar who says that any more.” Burridge 2004, p. 34
    ^ "The nonhistoricity thesis has always been controversial, and it has consistently failed to convince scholars of many disciplines and religious creeds... Biblical scholars and classical historians now regard it as effectively refuted." - Van Voorst 2000, p. 1

    The only thing up for debate is whether or not certain portions of Jesus` life were enhanced for emphasis
  96. Profile photo of vilem
    vilem Male 18-29
    372 posts
    March 31, 2010 at 9:33 pm
    Pretty sure the shroud appeared in the 1600`s when there was a massive insurgence of "relics of christ", a time when having some such religious artifact meant pilgrimage and donation. In fact there were so many pieces in existence that it was said they could fill a ship (Sorry that last bit is from wiki :(, but i`ve heard it many times before, mainly during tours through cathedrals) Just makes me really doubt the validity of this object.
  97. Profile photo of primetimekin
    primetimekin Male 18-29
    7936 posts
    March 31, 2010 at 9:35 pm
    vilem, a study done by oxford on the relic showed it was from the middle ages....with that said a few weeks later they said they screwed up the process and it might actually be a lot older than that. So its debatable
  98. Profile photo of vilem
    vilem Male 18-29
    372 posts
    March 31, 2010 at 9:36 pm
    Pui i think what he is trying to convey is that all of those sources are secondary, therefore here-say. There is no primary first hand evidence of Christ`s existence, including a lack of execution record for anyone named "jesus" in the roman records.
    NOT trying to deny that it is possible he existed, just trying to possibly clarify thoughts.
  99. Profile photo of vilem
    vilem Male 18-29
    372 posts
    March 31, 2010 at 9:39 pm
    Prime: you`re talking about when it may have been created, which i admit could being at any point in time. But it was in the 1600`s when it was first revealed to the public, before that no church claimed to be in possession of it (to my understanding)
  100. Profile photo of primetimekin
    primetimekin Male 18-29
    7936 posts
    March 31, 2010 at 9:40 pm
    Well....that chances of it being created 2000 years ago, and not being used for another 1600 are slightly unlikely. Truth is, no one has any definitive evidence about that shroud
  101. Profile photo of vilem
    vilem Male 18-29
    372 posts
    March 31, 2010 at 9:44 pm
    Prime: agreed, this is by no means definitive proof of it being a fake, just slightly suspicious is all.
  102. Profile photo of LoofahBoy
    LoofahBoy Male 18-29
    3302 posts
    March 31, 2010 at 9:48 pm
    Right, because Jesus was a pale-skinned european.

    *facepalm*
  103. Profile photo of SparkleBabys
    SparkleBabys Male 18-29
    508 posts
    March 31, 2010 at 9:58 pm
    ARYAN JESUS FTW
  104. Profile photo of AirborneJT
    AirborneJT Male 18-29
    145 posts
    March 31, 2010 at 10:03 pm
    Skullgrin, there are two flaws in your logic about the lack of records of him. The first is that the bible has many bad translations. While the bible may say something along the lines of "The masses gathered around Jesus", it is now known that "The masses" was nothing more than a small group of people. It`s a mistranslation.

    On top of this, I assume that you may not have a firm grasp on life before the internet... Even 20 years ago, people of the world were very disconnected from each other.

    So, in conclusion- someone with a following of 12 people could very easily be overlooked by historians who were more concerned with recording recognized religious leaders of the time. The Christian religion was founded decades after his death.

    If you are looking for proof of his existence, then maybe you should do some objective research and do your homework. Personally, I don`t believe in Christianity, but I have done enough research on the subject to
  105. Profile photo of gbatemper
    gbatemper Male 13-17
    10 posts
    March 31, 2010 at 10:08 pm
    Only if they drating do another test. Thats not on the corner. Mother draters it will make the world roar if they come with decisive answers.
    Who the drat cares if you damage a little bit of the cloth, we NEED TO KNOW IF ITS JESUS.
  106. Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12151 posts
    March 31, 2010 at 10:14 pm
    vv I doubt very much if the church would ever let that happen.
  107. Profile photo of lapajara
    lapajara Female 18-29
    117 posts
    March 31, 2010 at 10:41 pm
    I like the Patrick from spongebbob`s in real life picture better.
  108. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    March 31, 2010 at 10:58 pm
    vilem, a study done by oxford on the relic showed it was from the middle ages....with that said a few weeks later they said they screwed up the process and it might actually be a lot older than that.

    It`s more complicated than that.

    The Vatican supplied a small sample from the cloth.

    Scientists tested it and got a date of about 1300. They did not screw up the tests. The sample was divided and tested seperately in different labs by different teams, with the same results.

    A few years later, a couple of other scientists challenged the *sampling*, not the *dating*. It was a proper peer-reviewed scientific challenge. They put forward and supported the idea that the sample was taken from a skillfully done medieval repair, not from the original cloth. Skillful enough to match, but not original.

    So its debatable

    Yes. The Vatican has chosen to not allow further sampling, so a definitive test is impossible.
  109. Profile photo of kirstoner
    kirstoner Female 18-29
    535 posts
    March 31, 2010 at 10:58 pm
    um, wasn`t the turin shroud proven to be fake? =s
  110. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    March 31, 2010 at 10:59 pm
    For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don`t believe, no proof is possible.
  111. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    March 31, 2010 at 11:03 pm
    we NEED TO KNOW IF ITS JESUS.

    i) Why?
    ii) You can`t.

    The best you could possibly get is a fairly accurate date. It might be a shroud about 2000 years old, but even if it is that doesn`t prove it was Jesus. Plenty of people died over a period of decades about 2000 years ago. So you`d have to take it on faith anyway...which leads me back to my first point. Why does anyone need evidence if they have faith?

    Even if, somehow, it was possible to prove it was Jesus (who wasn`t called Jesus), what difference would it make? It would just prove that he really existed, nothing more. It wouldn`t prove Christianity.
  112. Profile photo of defiythelie
    defiythelie Male 18-29
    230 posts
    March 31, 2010 at 11:04 pm
    yeah what ever blah blah blah. Jesus is made up.
  113. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    March 31, 2010 at 11:08 pm
    But it was in the 1600`s when it was first revealed to the public, before that no church claimed to be in possession of it (to my understanding)

    It was first shown in 1350. Which is why the carbon dating tests looked so damning - they dated it to 1260-1350. 1350 (and a lot of time before and after) was a very good time for faking Christian relics. There was a lot of money and power to be had from them. The better the relic, the more money and power. So it`s definitely plausible that someone faked it. What better relic than the shroud?
  114. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    March 31, 2010 at 11:11 pm
    Well....that chances of it being created 2000 years ago, and not being used for another 1600 are slightly unlikely.

    True, but it is possible that it was kept in secrecy (for security) in the middle east as an extremely holy relic, then looted during the crusades and revealed by the son (maybe grandson) of the looter after his death.

    The dates match well enough - the shroud was first revealed in 1350.
  115. Profile photo of vilem
    vilem Male 18-29
    372 posts
    March 31, 2010 at 11:15 pm
    Ang: From what i read an individual claimed ownership of it in 1350, but there are no documents of it ever having been shown to anyone. Meerly someone saying on record "I have this thing". It wasnt until the 1600`s when it was claimed by a church in Turin who than showed it to the public.
  116. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    March 31, 2010 at 11:19 pm
    I`m looking for proof of his existence - which does not exist. You would think that if someone as influential as jesus, as supernatural as jesus, and as known as jeuss was there would be mention of him all over the place - yet there is not.

    The big flaw in your argument is the assumption that he was influential and well known *in his lifetime*.

    He wasn`t.

    The major power (and major source of literacy) in that area at that time was the Roman empire. Why would they care about the life and death of a minor trouble-maker in a minor province noted for trouble? That`s all he was to the empire at the time. A religious figure in one of many little local religions within the empire...whoopie-do. The empire didn`t care about that either - they tolerated almost any religion as long as it didn`t disrupt the empire. Why care who or what barbarians worship?

    The scarcity of the evidence means very little either way.
  117. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    March 31, 2010 at 11:26 pm
    Ang: From what i read an individual claimed ownership of it in 1350, but there are no documents of it ever having been shown to anyone. Meerly someone saying on record "I have this thing". It wasnt until the 1600`s when it was claimed by a church in Turin who than showed it to the public.

    It was moved to Turin a little earlier than that (1578) and there are earlier records of it being moved. Some people saw it earlier than 1578. I think the 1350 date is the most likely.
  118. Profile photo of vilem
    vilem Male 18-29
    372 posts
    March 31, 2010 at 11:29 pm
    Ang: Matt: 4:25 "there followed him great multitudes of people from Galilee, and from Decapolis, and from Jerusalem, and from Judea, and from beyond Jordan."
    There are also references (as i understand it) to his fame being known by the great priests of the age, as well as the roman governor pilate.
  119. Profile photo of vilem
    vilem Male 18-29
    372 posts
    March 31, 2010 at 11:32 pm
    ang: Yeah you`re right, 1500`s my bad. For some reason i was thinking 16th CENTURY and wrote 1600`s haha. Durp. But the only record i can find of anyone acknowledging the shroud in the 1350`s is a guy named Geoffroi de Charny who claimed ownership. I can find no records of anyone else having claimed to see it. If you can find more on this i`d be really interested.
  120. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    March 31, 2010 at 11:43 pm
    Matt: 4:25 "there followed him great multitudes of people from Galilee, and from Decapolis, and from Jerusalem, and from Judea, and from beyond Jordan."

    So one of his closest followers said he was a big deal. Unsurprising. How many people made up this "great multitudes"? What was the original phrase, anyway? So much of the English translations of the bible are very wrong.

    There are also references (as i understand it) to his fame being known by the great priests of the age, as well as the roman governor pilate.

    Are there? Written by whom? People with a vested interest in making him out to be a big deal? Why would a Roman governer risk executing a major religious leader for nothing much? That would be asking for trouble. Most importantly from the point of view of Rome, it would cause disruption in the smooth running of the empire.
  121. Profile photo of ajr2006
    ajr2006 Male 18-29
    943 posts
    March 31, 2010 at 11:50 pm
    Who would have thought there would be this white guy walking around in the Middle East thousands of years ago
  122. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    March 31, 2010 at 11:53 pm
    I can find no records of anyone else having claimed to see it. If you can find more on this i`d be really interested.

    It was on display in the church he built in Lirey. So a fair few people would have seen it. That`s one reason why some people think it`s fake - a relic was just the job to attract money to a church, so it would be just the job to establish a new church and make it powerful.

    It was condemned as a fake by the Bishop of Troyes in 1389. Apparently, the letter he wrote to the Pope condemning the shroud as a fake still exists.

    http://www.shroudstory.com/later.htm

    The condemnation is known as the d’Arcis Memorandum. There are also documents challenging it, at least in part on the basis that the bishop of Troyes had a very strong motive to discredit the shroud - it was drawing people (and thus money and power) to the church at Lirey and away
  123. Profile photo of vilem
    vilem Male 18-29
    372 posts
    March 31, 2010 at 11:57 pm
    You`re point is interesting, but there is really no evidence for it besides the lack of evidence that exists. Yeah, its true that his followers would want to make him seem like a big deal, but alternatively it is also possible that they could entirely make up a character to be the hero of their religious order and glorify him to promote their views. If you allow exaggerations into the narrative than where do you stop.
  124. Profile photo of vilem
    vilem Male 18-29
    372 posts
    March 31, 2010 at 11:59 pm
    Thank you for the shroud reference, thats quite interesting. (especially the part about the firemen breaking through the bullet proof glass to get it to safety ha-ha, dedication!)
  125. Profile photo of NotAllowed
    NotAllowed Female 18-29
    526 posts
    April 1, 2010 at 1:31 am
    don`t people have anything better to do with their talent? like solving crimes or something?

    besides, jesus could not have looked like that!
    he was a jew remember??



    now that`s jesus.
  126. Profile photo of TopperHey
    TopperHey Male 18-29
    1930 posts
    April 1, 2010 at 2:21 am
    Yeaaah, isn`t the turin shroud fake? I`m not going to bother watching.
  127. Profile photo of jamesuyt
    jamesuyt Male 13-17
    680 posts
    April 1, 2010 at 2:24 am
    It`s a bit dodge that they created the image from the `proof` and yet the picture has terrible lighting. I bet the left-side of his face looks terrible or something so they hid it
  128. Profile photo of G-Rod
    G-Rod Male 18-29
    72 posts
    April 1, 2010 at 2:31 am
    "I don`t think he should have any one face." Yeah, what the drat? Why should people have just one face if you believe they actually existed as flesh and blood. After all, Hitler had a face to match every race and age...mean person.
  129. Profile photo of almightybob1
    almightybob1 Male 18-29
    4290 posts
    April 1, 2010 at 2:46 am
    For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don`t believe, no proof is possible.
    Not true. There are plenty of things that would convince me of the existence of a god or gods.
    Whether I would then worship that deity is a different matter.
  130. Profile photo of xxPinkxx
    xxPinkxx Female 18-29
    3830 posts
    April 1, 2010 at 3:11 am
    real or not, it IS interesting..
  131. Profile photo of tenty
    tenty Male 18-29
    425 posts
    April 1, 2010 at 3:59 am
    They did one of those carbondating or somehing tests on the shroud, is about 600 years old, that is impressive in itself to be honest....
  132. Profile photo of Max_Normal
    Max_Normal Male 30-39
    501 posts
    April 1, 2010 at 4:40 am
    More fuel for the lost and the credulous.
  133. Profile photo of kairobert
    kairobert Male 18-29
    1626 posts
    April 1, 2010 at 4:52 am
    Hehe April fools. Wonderful.
  134. Profile photo of Dr_Sexy
    Dr_Sexy Male 30-39
    1597 posts
    April 1, 2010 at 5:05 am
    jesus actually had a rag face, the shroud was pretty spot on in the first place.
  135. Profile photo of FitzySpyder
    FitzySpyder Male 18-29
    119 posts
    April 1, 2010 at 5:20 am
    actually tenty, the corner they took the sample from for carbon dating was the corner that analysis of ended up showing that it was repaired at one point. I`m not one to say the shroud is real or anything, but the results of that carbon dating test were definitely off, they need to test from the other section of it to find the true age.
  136. Profile photo of feiku
    feiku Female 18-29
    526 posts
    April 1, 2010 at 5:33 am
    They proved the shroud was fake awhile back. They were even able to sucessfully replicate it using methods that would have been available during the time of it`s creation.
    http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/europe/10/07/italy.turin.shroud/index.html
  137. Profile photo of feiku
    feiku Female 18-29
    526 posts
    April 1, 2010 at 5:35 am
    Oh and one more:More linkies!
  138. Profile photo of pariahnola
    pariahnola Male 18-29
    649 posts
    April 1, 2010 at 5:53 am
    You see this is why I`m a pastafarian, we don`t have foolishness like this with the FSM
  139. Profile photo of fishgul69
    fishgul69 Female 18-29
    914 posts
    April 1, 2010 at 6:21 am
    "PRAISE WHITE JESUS!"
  140. Profile photo of sugaman2k3
    sugaman2k3 Male 18-29
    357 posts
    April 1, 2010 at 6:32 am
    haha...hey ppl at the vatican...look at 3d jesus on my tiny blackberry screen...that look like jesus to you...no?
  141. Profile photo of GuardinGnome
    GuardinGnome Male 18-29
    2893 posts
    April 1, 2010 at 6:55 am
    they just spilled some ale on the effing tarp.
    Then, someone said," Hey! That looks like that one guy, whatshisname? Oh Yeah, Jesus!"
    There you go.
  142. Profile photo of skullgrin
    skullgrin Male 18-29
    937 posts
    April 1, 2010 at 7:07 am
    airborn, you say the bible only says a few people followed him...what else besides the bible said this? oh? nothing? case closed. you can not use the bible to prove the bible. dont try and say i have flaws in my logic when your ONLY source of information is coming from the ONLY book that mentions him.
  143. Profile photo of skullgrin
    skullgrin Male 18-29
    937 posts
    April 1, 2010 at 7:08 am
    "For those who don`t believe, no proof is possible"

    this is not true
  144. Profile photo of skullgrin
    skullgrin Male 18-29
    937 posts
    April 1, 2010 at 7:11 am
    "The big flaw in your argument is the assumption that he was influential and well known *in his lifetime*.

    He wasn`t. "

    you`re assumption that the story based on his lifetime is real and not a made up story is your big flaw. You do not have any proof that the stories about jesus are infact real. You just assume they are because that is what you are told. This is most people in heres logic. They assume that he is real because a book says so. No proof of jesus existing outside of the bible = no reason to believe he was a real person.
  145. Profile photo of Lionhart2
    Lionhart2 Male 40-49
    8309 posts
    April 1, 2010 at 7:25 am
    NotAllowed wins.
  146. Profile photo of Pooptart19
    Pooptart19 Male 18-29
    2442 posts
    April 1, 2010 at 7:31 am
    For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don`t believe, no proof is possible.

    Actually, Crakr, if you provide good enough evidence, I`ll believe anything. Produce said magical Jesus right now and that would be pretty damning.
  147. Profile photo of hannahyak
    hannahyak Female 13-17
    31 posts
    April 1, 2010 at 7:32 am
    "you say the bible only says a few people followed him...what else besides the bible said this? oh? nothing? case closed."

    You really can`t use that as proof he didn`t exist. Just because it is only in one book doesn`t make it false. The "origin of the species" was probably the only book of its time to speak about evolution, yet does that make it false?
    That period in time wasn`t well documented. I mean, I don`t believe in the bible myself, but I can`t use the fact that it isn`t backed up by other books as evidence against it. That just doesn`t work.
  148. Profile photo of
    bdr127
    48 posts
    April 1, 2010 at 7:33 am
    Wow, for a guy supposedly born in the middle-east, he looks a heck of a lot like a white European! :-/
  149. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14273 posts
    April 1, 2010 at 7:45 am
    Nope not him Jesus had a chainsaw arm and fought the undead for our sins.....
  150. Profile photo of BenTheBug
    BenTheBug Male 18-29
    1195 posts
    April 1, 2010 at 7:48 am
    "Wow, for a guy supposedly born in the middle-east, he looks a heck of a lot like a white European!"

    Christ is a Greek name... Do you know his entire heritage? If I was born in Europe, would I have to be white?
  151. Profile photo of MTM1
    MTM1 Male 40-49
    9 posts
    April 1, 2010 at 7:56 am
    FEIKU:

    "They proved it`s fake..." is a bit of an overstatement. First of all, who are "they" - the article suggests that it was one scientist who did some personal "homework" in an attempt to disprove the "convential wisdom" that the shroud is actually the burial cloth of Jesus...

    ...that said...

    There is ample evidence to strongly suggest that the shroud - or perhaps the markings on the shroud - are of a different era than that of Jesus. But even so I`m fairly certain that there hasn`t been any definitive statment by the scientific community at large disavowing the shroud as the burial cloth.

    I think it is not a stretch to say that a majority of people who aren`t jaded by religious devotion are in agreement that it is not a "holy" artifact (read: not Jesus). But while there is even a glimmer of hope that it MIGHT be the real thing the "devoted" will continue to believe.

    Damn you c
  152. Profile photo of Baelzar
    Baelzar Male 40-49
    1399 posts
    April 1, 2010 at 8:07 am
    Historical Jesus is Hearsay Only

    "All documents about Jesus came well after the life of the alleged Jesus from either: unknown authors, people who had never met an earthly Jesus, or from fraudulent, mythical or allegorical writings."
  153. Profile photo of Frankii
    Frankii Female 18-29
    437 posts
    April 1, 2010 at 8:37 am
    But the Shroud of Turin wasn`t actually Jesus...
  154. Profile photo of yepimbored
    yepimbored Male 30-39
    131 posts
    April 1, 2010 at 8:59 am
    Religion fascinates me even though I`m a non-believer. How can people be so eaten up with a fable/myth/possible reality that is over 2,000 years old, was re-written and translated by theocratic rulers to push political agendas, killed millions of innocent people, broke into hundreds of sects, bastardized by zealots, amalgamated into local traditions, damns non-believers to eternal hell for not believing a story, and argues merits on circular logic. Will God ever be as dead and ancient as Amun Ra? Those religions lasted a lot longer than 2K years and we scoff at their cherished beliefs. Funny how Christian "science" always seems to obtain the results for which they are searching. Find a plank of wood on a mountain- OH LOOK! It`s Noah`s ark! Smudge on a rock- It`s Jesus!
  155. Profile photo of Nidonemo
    Nidonemo Male 18-29
    9311 posts
    April 1, 2010 at 9:18 am
    2-1 they use this model for a new Jesus 3-D cartoon show. :P
  156. Profile photo of osmandias
    osmandias Male 40-49
    205 posts
    April 1, 2010 at 9:25 am
    @skullgrin: absence of proof of existence is not proof of non-existence!
    Grmbl, why am I (forced to) defending views or arguments of believers (again)?
    There are enough holes in the fabric of any believe system, especialy in the christian. There is no need to hit any straw man or to misregarde logic.
    If you`r criticising religion, go on I`m on your side. But do it right.
  157. Profile photo of
    bdr127
    48 posts
    April 1, 2010 at 10:23 am
    "Christ is a Greek name... Do you know his entire heritage? If I was born in Europe, would I have to be white?"

    @BenTheBug: For one, the word Christ is a Greek "translation" (I use that term loosely) of the Hebrew "Messiah" which means "anointed one."

    Second, Judaic historical genealogy records place Jesus` lineage in the Middle East. There is nothing to indicate he or his relatives were from Greece.

    Regarding you last point, nowadays it`s easy for people to move from place to place, making couples and children of mixed races relatively common. That just wasn`t the case 2000 years ago. If you were from Europe, you looked like a white European.
  158. Profile photo of admisaok
    admisaok Male 18-29
    516 posts
    April 1, 2010 at 11:31 am
    Jesus is the Greek translation of Jeshua, which is Hebrew for Joshua... so really you should call him Josh
  159. Profile photo of Nebbie
    Nebbie Male 18-29
    864 posts
    April 1, 2010 at 11:39 am
    Uhh... Jesus was from Jerusalem... He didn`t look European...
  160. Profile photo of Berenice
    Berenice Female 13-17
    536 posts
    April 1, 2010 at 11:45 am
    I`m sure Jesus didn`t have pretty eyebrows.
  161. Profile photo of bak5102
    bak5102 Male 18-29
    32 posts
    April 1, 2010 at 12:42 pm
    This post requires the creation of a new IAB category, "Stupid of the day". It`s stupid.
  162. Profile photo of Raokin
    Raokin Female 18-29
    456 posts
    April 1, 2010 at 1:10 pm
    "Wow, for a guy supposedly born in the middle-east, he looks a heck of a lot like a white European!"

    So does the president of Syria. That doesn`t mean he`s European, though.
  163. Profile photo of Baracus619
    Baracus619 Male 18-29
    38 posts
    April 1, 2010 at 1:53 pm
    Man, im gonna become a televangelist, If christians are this stupid imma be a millionaire!
  164. Profile photo of Lellin
    Lellin Female 13-17
    54 posts
    April 1, 2010 at 2:41 pm
    But they already pretty much proved that the shroud of turin is from the middle ages... So what they`ve created is a 3D image of the poor guy that died and was wrapped up in order to create a piece of religious propaganda...
  165. Profile photo of skullgrin
    skullgrin Male 18-29
    937 posts
    April 1, 2010 at 3:31 pm
    "You really can`t use that as proof he didn`t exist. Just because it is only in one book doesn`t make it false. The "origin of the species" was probably the only book of its time to speak about evolution, yet does that make it false?"

    ----

    No, but the lack of mention anywhere else does. As for your apples to orange example of "the origin of species" though, evolution has been scientifically proven since and at the time of that book they were proposing evolution as a theory. The bible does not treat itself as theory.
    ----
    That period in time wasn`t well documented. I mean, I don`t believe in the bible myself, but I can`t use the fact that it isn`t backed up by other books as evidence against it. That just doesn`t work.
    ---

    that time period was VERY well documented actually - which is all the more damning.
  166. Profile photo of skullgrin
    skullgrin Male 18-29
    937 posts
    April 1, 2010 at 3:35 pm
    "@skullgrin: absence of proof of existence is not proof of non-existence!"

    ok, how does this change "there is no proof jesus existed?"
  167. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    April 1, 2010 at 3:42 pm
    Yeaaah, isn`t the turin shroud fake? I`m not going to bother watching.

    On the off-chance that you`ll bother to look at an answer to your question, I`ll answer it. Answer it again, actually, but of course you haven`t bothered to look for an answer even in this thread.

    Quick answer:

    It`s still unknown whether or not the shroud is a fake. Good evidence has been presented supporting the idea that the sample that was dated was taken from a medieval patching of the shroud and not from the original material. Further testing has not been allowed.
  168. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    April 1, 2010 at 3:50 pm
    you`re assumption that the story based on his lifetime is real and not a made up story is your big flaw.

    If I made that assumption, it might have been a big flaw in my argument. But I didn`t, so it isn`t.

    You do not have any proof that the stories about jesus are infact real. You just assume they are because that is what you are told.

    Wrong again. I don`t assume the stories are true. Also, `infact` isnotaword.

    No proof of jesus existing outside of the bible = no reason to believe he was a real person.

    I`ve looked into it and I think there is sufficient evidence to say that it is probably true that a person existed ~2000 years ago who preached a reform to Judaism radical enough to split the religion, with the reformed Judaism becoming Christianity.
  169. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    April 1, 2010 at 3:55 pm
    that time period was VERY well documented actually - which is all the more damning.

    i) The great majority of the documentation was lost between then and now. Very few written records last 2000 years.

    ii) It was very well documented from a purely Roman perspective. Rome did not care about localised barbarian (i.e. non-Roman) religions or preachers. Christianity only became well documented when it became an issue in the empire.
  170. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    April 1, 2010 at 3:59 pm
    But they already pretty much proved that the shroud of turin is from the middle ages...

    ...and then some other scientists made a solid challenge to those findings. Proper scientists, proper science, proper peer review.

    From a scientific point of view, the age of the shroud is uncertain.

    Of course even if it was proved to be ~2000 years old, that wouldn`t prove who was buried in it. If anyone was - it could be a fake even if it is 2000 years old.
  171. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    April 1, 2010 at 4:03 pm
    Regarding appearance...

    It would be a mistake to assume that people in that area 2000 years ago look the same as people in that area today. 2000 years is time enough for populations to move and change. Maybe they did, maybe they didn`t.

    So...are there any extant Roman descriptions of Judeans?
  172. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    April 1, 2010 at 4:08 pm
    For those who believe, no proof is necessary.

    True

    For those who don`t believe, no proof is possible.

    False.

    The whole reason why I don`t believe is that the evidence is woefully inadequate. I don`t believe in things - I go on the evidence or lack thereof. Evidence would cause me to change my opinion about the probability of it being true. Proof would cause me to be sure it was true. That is the nature of proof.
  173. Profile photo of Penelopi
    Penelopi Female 18-29
    85 posts
    April 1, 2010 at 4:15 pm
    I think the lady @ the end of the clip had it right.
  174. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    April 1, 2010 at 4:19 pm
    Jesus is the Greek translation of Jeshua, which is Hebrew for Joshua... so really you should call him Josh

    Not quite. Jesus is a somewhat mangled version of Iesu, which is a transliteration of a Greek name which might or might not have been a transliteration or translation of his name.

    Joshua might be a reasonable Anglicised transliteration of his name, or it might not. We don`t really know.

    In case anyone is wondering, the Greek connection comes from the fact that Greek was the lingua franca of the region back then.
  175. Profile photo of skullgrin
    skullgrin Male 18-29
    937 posts
    April 1, 2010 at 5:47 pm
    "If I made that assumption, it might have been a big flaw in my argument. But I didn`t, so it isn`t."

    so then what are you basing your logic that jesus existed on?

    "Wrong again. I don`t assume the stories are true. Also, `infact` isnotaword."

    so what is your argument against me about? Picking out typos is a sure sign you have no argument though.

    "I`ve looked into it and I think there is sufficient evidence to say that it is probably true that a person existed ~2000 years ago who preached a reform to Judaism radical enough to split the religion, with the reformed Judaism becoming Christianity"

    however there is no records of this other than the bible...which means....no proof
  176. Profile photo of skullgrin
    skullgrin Male 18-29
    937 posts
    April 1, 2010 at 5:47 pm

    "i) The great majority of the documentation was lost between then and now. Very few written records last 2000 years."

    how can you say this with a straight face? how can we know a lot of information was lost if it was lost? there would be no way to tell since it never would have existed. This is a common misconception

    "ii) It was very well documented from a purely Roman perspective. Rome did not care about localised barbarian (i.e. non-Roman) religions or preachers. Christianity only became well documented when it became an issue in the empire."

    and there was still no record of him...the most important/influential person to have ever walked the earth...and yet somehow hundreds of years later people were able to retell his story?
  177. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    April 1, 2010 at 5:54 pm
    how can you say this with a straight face? how can we know a lot of information was lost if it was lost? there would be no way to tell since it never would have existed. This is a common misconception

    I can say it with a straight face because I have some understanding of the situation.

    The Roman empire was a very literate and organised society, even more so than the Roman republic that preceeded it. We know that they kept extensive records of official business. Hardly any of those records still exist, which is hardly surprising after 2000 years.

    and there was still no record of him...the most important/influential person to have ever walked the earth...and yet somehow hundreds of years later people were able to retell his story?

    There are Roman records from the mid to late 1st century. Decades later, not centuries.
  178. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    April 1, 2010 at 6:03 pm
    so then what are you basing your logic that jesus existed on?

    The reasons I`ve given so far. You don`t care, so why are you asking? Just assume I`ve wasted my time writing several posts explaining them and you`ve ignored them. That saves us both time.

    so what is your argument against me about?

    We hold very different positions. You`re adamant about denying even the possibility of the existence of an entirely mortal man preaching reform of an existing religion. I`m not.

    Picking out typos is a sure sign you have no argument though.

    Poor use of English is a better sign.

    however there is no records of this other than the bible...which means....no proof

    Are you aware of the possibility of any position other than the two most extreme (absolute faith that he is God the Son and absolute faith that he never existed at all, in any form)?

    Serious question.
  179. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    April 1, 2010 at 6:05 pm
    Damn, I missed one of your ad hoc changes of terms.

    so then what are you basing your logic that jesus existed on?

    I have not stated that Jesus existed.
  180. Profile photo of skullgrin
    skullgrin Male 18-29
    937 posts
    April 1, 2010 at 6:09 pm

    "I can say it with a straight face because I have some understanding of the situation."

    if you believe what you just said then you obviously dont...

    "The Roman empire was a very literate and organised society, even more so than the Roman republic that preceeded it. We know that they kept extensive records of official business. Hardly any of those records still exist, which is hardly surprising after 2000 years."

    and i`ll repeat:

    there was still no record of him...the most important/influential person to have ever walked the earth...and yet somehow hundreds of years later people were able to retell his story?


    "There are Roman records from the mid to late 1st century. Decades later, not centuries."

    and they knew his story how? If the original writers were lost how did they write about him? word of mouth? well thats not proof of anything
  181. Profile photo of skullgrin
    skullgrin Male 18-29
    937 posts
    April 1, 2010 at 6:18 pm
    "The reasons Ive given so far. You dont care, so why are you asking? Just assume I`ve wasted my time writing several posts explaining them and you`ve ignored them. That saves us both time."

    but none of your reasons are valid...


    "We hold very different positions. You`re adamant about denying even the possibility of the existence of an entirely mortal man preaching reform of an existing religion. I`m not."

    um...no im not. All i said was there was no proof. Untill there is proof i will continue to deny that he existed though as there is no reason to assume he did.

    "Poor use of English is a better sign."

    lol, another grasp of the straws - that wont win any debates my friend.

    Are you aware of the possibility of any position other than the two most extreme (absolute faith that he is God the Son and absolute faith that he never existed at all, in any form)?

    Serious question.

    of course
  182. Profile photo of skullgrin
    skullgrin Male 18-29
    937 posts
    April 1, 2010 at 6:18 pm
    of course i do, but that is irrelevant in this discussion seeing as were discussing the jesus from the bible*
  183. Profile photo of StarDagger
    StarDagger Male 40-49
    1189 posts
    April 1, 2010 at 6:19 pm
    Too white, anyone from that region, especially someone walking around alot in the sun would be much much darker.
  184. Profile photo of MandyLea
    MandyLea Female 18-29
    247 posts
    April 1, 2010 at 7:35 pm
    how do they know that that shroud actually covered Jesus at one time?
  185. Profile photo of Volsunga
    Volsunga Male 18-29
    1548 posts
    April 1, 2010 at 8:36 pm
    Really all this proves is that the shroud of Turin could not be Jesus. The facial structure of that man doesn`t look Semetic in any way, looks more European, probably Greek or Anatolian.
  186. Profile photo of tstyblucryns
    tstyblucryns Male 18-29
    496 posts
    April 1, 2010 at 10:02 pm
    "power out of his fingertips" HAHA!!
  187. Profile photo of wolfguy423
    wolfguy423 Male 18-29
    172 posts
    April 1, 2010 at 10:57 pm
    i thought the science of it was pretty cool.
  188. Profile photo of yarrrpirate
    yarrrpirate Male 18-29
    394 posts
    April 2, 2010 at 2:12 am
    You do know the shroud of Turin is a hoax from the Middle Ages, right?
  189. Profile photo of Squinky
    Squinky Female 18-29
    117 posts
    April 2, 2010 at 3:05 am
    Wow what a surprise, he looks like a slightly tanned white male. Considering where he was from, shouldn`t his skin be a lot darker? The representation looks exactly like every other picture, painting or statue of Christ around.
  190. Profile photo of osmandias
    osmandias Male 40-49
    205 posts
    April 2, 2010 at 3:20 am
    @skullgrin & angilion:
    How about the following conclusion?

    There is no proof or disproove of the biblical jesus ever existed. The character could have been entirely made up. He could have been several people whos stories got mixed together or he could have been close to what is described in the bible (with some exagaration and the usual loss between retelling and translation).

    Fact is, that some decades after the alleged preachings of that jesus there were christian communities all over the then-knowen world and some centuries later christianity was the established church of the roman empire.
    Quit of a success story for a fictional character.
  191. Profile photo of osmandias
    osmandias Male 40-49
    205 posts
    April 2, 2010 at 3:25 am
    Fact is also that we are still stuck with people who believe in this character. (which is no big deal in itself) Some of those also believe (and make it a point that the believe in christ is connect with the other believes) that creationism has to be taught at school, gay people shouldn`t be allowed to marry and condoms don`t help to fight aids.
    Those people are the real pain in the back.
  192. Profile photo of lyckosam
    lyckosam Male 18-29
    193 posts
    April 2, 2010 at 9:44 am
    i hate to be a pedant, but it`s widely accepted that Jesus DID exist. i think the debate lies in whether or not he was the son of a god. there are simply too many independent historical references to him for him to have been entirely fictional.

    so he was real, but probably just a forward thinking bloke who a lot of people liked. time distorts the truth.
  193. Profile photo of skullgrin
    skullgrin Male 18-29
    937 posts
    April 2, 2010 at 10:30 am
    "@skullgrin & angilion:
    How about the following conclusion?

    There is no proof or disproove of the biblical jesus ever existed. The character could have been entirely made up. He could have been several people whos stories got mixed together or he could have been close to what is described in the bible (with some exagaration and the usual loss between retelling and translation).

    Fact is, that some decades after the alleged preachings of that jesus there were christian communities all over the then-knowen world and some centuries later christianity was the established church of the roman empire.
    Quit of a success story for a fictional character. "

    reminds me of someone similar. This person actually has a lot more documentation but is still known to not be real..this person, of course, is santa clause. There is actually more proof that santa clause is real today in 2010 than there is that Jesus was. Think about that for a second. someo
  194. Profile photo of skullgrin
    skullgrin Male 18-29
    937 posts
    April 2, 2010 at 10:30 am
    **someone who we know that does not exist actually has MORE proof of existing than jesus.
  195. Profile photo of skullgrin
    skullgrin Male 18-29
    937 posts
    April 2, 2010 at 10:32 am
    "i hate to be a pedant, but it`s widely accepted that Jesus DID exist. i think the debate lies in whether or not he was the son of a god. there are simply too many independent historical references to him for him to have been entirely fictional."

    there are zero independent historical refrences of jesus existing. ZERO, zip, zilch, nada, none. Jesus existing is not widely accepted by anyone but christians and catholics - which doesnt mean anything.

  196. Profile photo of k-two
    k-two Male 40-49
    122 posts
    April 2, 2010 at 11:32 am
    @skullgrin, who wrote:

    "There is actually more proof that santa clause is real today in 2010 than there is that Jesus was."

    Do yourself a favour and google for Nikolaus of Myra, aka Nikolaus the Saint, who in the 4th century was bishop in a region which today belongs to Turkey. He spawned many legends, and he certainly was different from what these legends (and an Atlanta based soft drink company) made of him.

    Which means that your example perfectly supports what you are denying, i.e. that there is proof that a man did exist in historic Palestine whose myths outlived him by millenia - and that he was certainly different from what the legends want to make us believe.

  197. Profile photo of skullgrin
    skullgrin Male 18-29
    937 posts
    April 2, 2010 at 3:50 pm
    no no no, im not talking about the real saint nick, im talking about the coke-a-cola drinking, red suit wearing, reindeer riding fat guy who slides down chimneys on x-mas eve and delivers presents to all the good little boys and girls. There is more proof that THIS guy is real, than there is for Jesus
  198. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    April 2, 2010 at 5:07 pm
    You do know the shroud of Turin is a hoax from the Middle Ages, right?

    Are you basing that statement on the carbon dating of the sample that was later found to probably be a patch and not the original material?

    If so, your knowledge is out of date.

    If not, what evidence do you have?
  199. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    April 2, 2010 at 5:10 pm
    Really all this proves is that the shroud of Turin could not be Jesus. The facial structure of that man doesn`t look Semetic in any way, looks more European, probably Greek or Anatolian.

    Do you know what Judeans of 2000 years ago looked like? If so, how? You can`t simply assume a lack of change over that period of time and be sure of being right.
  200. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    April 2, 2010 at 5:12 pm
    how do they know that that shroud actually covered Jesus at one time?

    They don`t know. They have faith instead.

    There`s no way of knowing short of time travel. Even if the shroud is ~2000 years old and it is an image from a corpse, that still only narrows it down to one of a very large number of people.
  201. Profile photo of television17
    television17 Male 13-17
    49 posts
    April 6, 2010 at 1:49 am
    The `Shroud of Turin` was scientifically disproved as Jesus` garb. It`s all over the everywhere, and I thought someone here would have a glimmer of IQ left after browsing hundreds of "10 more of Fancy`s random images he ripped by hitting random picture on Photobucket", or wherever he gets them from...
  202. Profile photo of pmarren
    pmarren Male 40-49
    4575 posts
    April 14, 2010 at 8:54 am
    What a crock of sh*t.
  203. Profile photo of IndyEngineer
    IndyEngineer Male 40-49
    24 posts
    April 22, 2010 at 8:53 pm
    Fairytale

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