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You`ve got a fundamental misunderstanding of the core concept. The big bang created the universe, thus, the evidence for this theory is all around us. Thats how they came up with the theory, they observed what was happening and came up with the most likely explanation.
Personally, as an aethiest, I believe I`ve taken a rational viewpoint by always questioning what is most likely. I know that some things cannot be explained by Science, indeed I`m sure Science will never be able to explain everything. However that just means we don`t know how some stuff works, or worked, not that a higher being must be controlling things.
So - that`s a double-edged sword Znaught.
Why do you believe in God?
Prove me wrong, pissants.
Why do people like to like to stand the bible in one corner of the ring and science in the other like they opposing forces?
Science is a tool, it is a method as man tries to find proof of when, where, how, and why.
The Bible is a collection of books that some feel is devinely inspired, or at least written by devinely inspired people, about the character of the creator. They are not in opposition, they aren`t even in the same field...
Oh, and... I think the baby mammoth is cool.
GET YOUR dratING HEAD CHECKED, THE BIBLE IS FICTION YOU CRAZY BIBLE THUMPER, I HATE CRAZY PEOPLE WHO CANT GET OVER THE FACT SCIENCE HAS PROVED RELIGION TO BE FALSE.. GET OVER IT!!!!!!!
You obviously cannot rule out religion. If you can, what are your grounds for ruling it out? Instead of insulting people for being religious, maybe try backing up your claims. You sound just like a liberal/progressive.
yeah, when you`re trying to argue with science physical evidence is kinda necessary.
But, you can just call people whackers and ignore them, while making fun of them for being ignorant if you want to.
[quote]Uh - did a bible whacker just diss something for not having phsyical evidence? ROFL.[/quote]You know what`s ironic? That means you`re just as "wrong" as us.
Davymid...I love that picture.
Uh - did a bible whacker just diss something for not having phsyical evidence? ROFL.
Religion has never suppressed science. People in power who fear change because change means a chance that they will be less influential and therefore less powerful have. Power, corruption, and control (government) has hindered science. Religion just happened to be their tool.
Religion and science are in no way contradictory.
Lionhart, mate, did you just pull out (I believe you did) the feared and inimitable WHEEL OF POWER?!? Holy smokes!
I dint mention their own religion I said religion has opressed and supressed science, for example Copernicuss` book on the sun being the centre of the solar system was supressed for decades, they then burned his supporter Bruno at the stake as a heretic,Galileo was threatened with torture and placed under house arrest till he went blind by the inquisition then they prohibited his books for 200 years! Campanella was tortured seven times by the inquisition for writing In support of Galileo. Descartes delayed his book supporting Galileo and when he did publish he was listed on the prohibited books list signed by the Pope!Protestants wanted him tortured.Newton, Halley, Darwin, Hubble, even Bertrand Russell, could go on all persecuted harassed supressed by Religion for daring to challenge it!
I could go on, but this is enough for you to work with for now.
As for science, I can think of many things that it will be impossible for science to prove and things that it has failed to do so thus far.1) Considering how matter is essentially "recycled" at the big bang, we will never know if others occurred before it. Nor will we be able to conclude why it occurred in the first place.Cont. IN next post
So are you.
You`re being silly.
Perhaps, and nobody thus far is saying otherwise. But, the facts are that non-christians did not do these things; christians did. In fact in that time one would have been harshly persecuted and/or killed for not being christian.
The dumbest comment I think I have ever seen on this forum. Given enough time, resources and willpower science throughout history has constantly proven everything we put to the test and will continue to do so. I would say Sciences` biggest roadblock is organzied religion and the drated up thought processes that hinder rational and logic thought.
You mean the "christians" that systematically killed and/or enslaved the Native Americans in the name of the Queen of Spain? Or later when the other Christians came over from England and colonized, multiplied and systematically killed American Indians for land and resources? Which christians are we tlaking about? BTW love your religion... it`s better than a horror film!
@vilem: If you hadn`t noticed, the United States was founded by Christians. Now there is no law that forces separation of state and church, only that the government cannot pass laws which prohibit certain religions or their exercise and laws which force certain ones upon you. Read the constitution. The truth is, religion and everything else in life is impossible to separate. For a christian, our very values and usually our political views are directly related. As for the public school system, if anything it is actually prohibiting religion and promoting atheism. One more step towards socialism I suppose.
My point is that people are hypocritical. They don`t like being bombarded with someone else`s opinion, yet most of them would take any opportunity to do it right back, and cheer anyone on who does so (seriously just look at the people on this site as an example)
holy crap i didnt know they were alive to begin with!! f you, high school
Chances are Cubans will say the first, while the US will say the latter. It`s about context, and points of view.
The Bible is a story book, yeah I can see that. But then so is every book that has a who, what, where, when, and how in it. The only books that come to mind that don`t have that are math books, and to a point, science books.
And another thing, the Bible has been put together by, you guessed it, historians! Woo! They gathered data on old texts, journals, etc., compiled them and made the Bible. There are many books that could have been put in to the Bible but haven`t. Have you heard of the book of Thomas? Probably not, but it exists.
Bottom line, any book`s interpretation is in the hands of the reader. No book will be 100% accurate.
As for the atrocities of religion, generalizing a few bad people as representing a whole religion is absurd.
Why do people care so much? Because they are hell bent on dictating the lives of others, pro life, prohibiting stem cell research, imposing "intelligent design" in schools, etc.
Or do you want the horrors of religion too? Suicide bombings, child molestation, the suppression of women, jihads, crusades, persecution of gays, I can continue on this list longer than the character limit in this reply. If you need to add a face to some atrocities I will be the bringer of reality and rational thinking to you, have a look for yourself here
You people are misusing the term troll. Anyone who disagrees with you is now a troll. WTF!
[quote] The Bible is a history book. End of story. [/quote]
Lord of the Rings has more accurate history than the bible. The bible is a story book. End of story.
[quote] Who decides what goes in a history book? [/quote]
Historians, ie; people who know what happened in the past through research.
Yawn... old news.
Anyway... This story is pretty old. Like two years or something. Is this the first you`ve heard of it?
Cry me a river!"
Wow. Pathetic logic. Gotta love the internet.
This $hit is getting old.
And while we`re on about it, if the site is about contemporary thought, what the hell is the deal with the mindless censorship?
I`ll answer on his behalf: absolutely. Everyone should have the right to mock anyone else. Humour defuses anger. When people take themselves and their beliefs too seriously, and think that their opinion is sacrosanct and shouldn`t be mocked, THAT`S when the trouble starts.
/used to be Christian, so I have the right to mock them.
EXACTLY. Although, I bet I could figure out why.
I never said I didn`t trust it. I just said it can`t be taken literally. And if us Christians are wrong about where we go in the end, then jokes on us. Why do other people care so much?
There are even things in Greek history, which heavily influenced early Jewish/Christian history, which seem dubious, but were based off real events. Troy, anyone? It`s doubtful that Achilles was burned as an infant, and dipped in the River Styx...but, chances are there was a great warrior named Achilles who was killed by getting stabbed in the ankle and probably died of infection.
My point is that try to view the Bible as a history book, it all happened to some degree; maybe Moses didn`t `part` the Red Sea, but the Jewish people did escape Egypt to get to their promised land. The Bible is not, and should not be a stand point for morality, rather it should be used like modern day history texts.
As I said in a previous comment, I`m Christian and I say this openly, without fear of being smitten.
The Dead Sea Scrolls were most likely written by the Essenes during the period from about 200 B.C. to 68 C.E./A.D.
Care to revise that statement sir ?
Cry me a river!
Unfortunately, I`ve found myself more let down than entertained each time i have visited this site in the past few months. This "community" that you have developed, is really quite saddening in itself, and i would hope that you all are smart enough so that i dont have to explain myself.
"Also who is to claim what was and was not lost in translation not only between man and god, but between languages as well? Unless you were there the day those words were written, don`t try to act like you know 100% that is what it literally mean.
You got to remember the bible was translated from a dead language to Hebrew, then through many others into English. We can`t even freaking properly translate Japanese into English today without loosing a lot of meaning."
Okay. Your first sentence alone gives me reason enough not to believe a world in the Bible. Your second sentence goes on to say that unless you were present at the time the Old Testament was pieced together, you can`t have any valid claim as to what the Bible even means (considering half of it is apparently literal while the completely nonsensical parts are only meant to be taken by interpretation).
Unless you`re basis for Japanese-English translation is cheap Hentai, what the HELL are you tal
1. It`s always someONE`s fault. I`d suggest running if you see a large cross coming your way.
2. That just can`t be true! I`m pretty sure the 30-some-thousand different denominations of Christianity might have trouble agreeing on that one. /rollseyes
3. Everyone knows that the important parts, you know, the ones that validate their points and arguments, were all mistranslated or have one of 1,000 different meanings.
Wow, so much its hard to know where to start.
1. *I* haven`t got this debate going.2. The Bible is the INSPIRED AND ACCURATE word of God, it says so. 2 Timothy 3:16-17, "ALL Scripture is God-breathed". You can`t believe `just some` of it, you believe ALL (including that provision) or none.3. Lost in translation: you make the same mistake most people ignorant of the Bible make - assuming it was translated from one single source. It wasn`t, there are THOUSANDS of copies of the various books extant, in Hebrew, Greek, Latin, everything.
What I have a problem with in Christianity is people saying "I believe this but not that... God loves me BUT he doesn`t hate anyone, I believe he created the world BUT not in 6 days."
You`re full of poo if that`s what you think, because your faith is a pretense in that case, a convenient life-view without the corresponding responsibility.
Here`s my opinion. Christianity (like nearly every religion) condemns other religions simply for thinking or believing outside of Christian beliefs and ideas. I`m pagan. Your religion condemns me to an eternity in hellish pain, torture, and absolute perfect anguish... because I believe differently. So, I apologize for not being sympathetic to your `mistreatment`.
You got to remember the bible was translated from a dead language to Hebrew, then through many others into English. We can`t even freaking properly translate Japanese into English today without loosing a lot of meaning.
Pun definitely intended.
God literally wrote the ten commandments in stone, According to the bible. So, Ya God writes in Hebrew.. He knows all languages, He knows what`s in our hearts no matter what country we are born in.
God could`ve taken any amount time to create the universe. Does time even exist to God the same way it does to us ? It`s true, God is all powerful, That means there are no limits to his power. So, 6 seconds, 6 days, 6,000 years or 6 billion years, Does it make a difference ? It doesn`t change the fact that God made it, and he made it a certain way.
@davymid: Hope so.
The same crew who were running IAB 3 years ago are the same crew who are running it now. There has been no change in direction, and we take on board the comments here.
Congratulations, however, on having the courage to stick-up to a friend you guys.
Just shut up. Believe or disbelieve in whatever you want... just stop going after people who think differently. It`s annoying and half of us want to put you through a meat grinder for it."
@ElSombrero: THANK YOU.
I`ve actually become really fed up with it lately, and I don`t enjoy iab at all anymore. =/ I use to come on daily now I come on here like once every two weeks and skim over for anything decent.
Eh I`m hoping this is just a phase though and iab will move on eventually. I use to really love this site.
I don`t care if you give me his birth certificate, I still think he`s a Muslim extremist born in Kenya.
Come on, IAB. This thing is cool enough without the trolling. Feh!
Yep, I see the problem with your logic right there.
I know we often bang on about how this is a community, but it`s actually true. And we mods do listen to the complaints, we really do. After all, there are many other sites out there, and we appreciate the dedication of the regular users who return to this site daily. Last thing we want to do is get a reputation for cheap shots. And this is coming from (personally) the most militant atheists amongst the guys who help run the site - this was a bit too far.
We`ll address this and sort our house out. No-one wants to come to a party where the mood is nasty.
Thanks for input everyone, vitriolic and otherwise. We genuinely, sincerely promise to take the comments on this thread on board. If people don`t complain, nothing gets changed. It`s appreciated and listened to.
p.s. Lionhart, awesome shop job brother...
The Pentateuch (the first 5 books of the Bible that begin the Christian tradition) uses variations of the Hebrew word `Yom` to describe creation. The Christians interpret this word as `day`, but the word can also mean extended periods of time. With this in mind, Genesis can be viewed as a way to show us the order of the way things came to be...and nothing more. Considering this, religion and science are not opposed.
The problem with that Lionhart2 is that the bible is written by man, not god. Problem is, man is not perfect and has flaws. Many people debate the 6 day creation because of that fact.
I wouldn`t mind so much if it was equally spread around amonst all religions/philosophies/etc.
you know the saying "Misery loves company"
you win :)
The Bible means 6 LITERAL, 24 HOUR days. Firstly, you`re making the mistake of using an English translation; the original Hebrew uses a word specifically referring to a real day, not another meaning like "any day now".
Secondly, the "Gap Theory" (which is what you are talking about) falls to pieces when you consider animals/birds/fish had nothing to eat for several thousands years, if they aren`t literal days.
If you don`t believe in God, fine. But if you DO believe in Him, then its as easy for Him to make the world in 6 literal seconds, minutes or days as it is for him to take thousands of years, so why question it?
I can`t remember who said it, but
If you can`t trust your religious books when it says where you came from, how can you trust where it says you`re going?
That, my friend, HAS to be...
I`m convinced, time to throw that Bible out.
Agreed, What is a "Day" to God. All we know is that a new "Day" is the beginning of one time period and the end of another.
3 eras of time on earth; Hadean, Archean, Proterozoic; Plus the 4 divisions of the latest one, Phanerozoic; Paleozoic, Mesozoic, Cenozoic & Present Day; Equals 7.
Mere Coincidence ?
Umm, speak for yourself? I happen to enjoy the hell out of those "stupid religious debates."
Are you joking?
I really don`t know because some christonuts can be that stupid sometimes.
Yes of course when the bible says a day it actually means ~833 years *sarcasm*.
The bible can`t be taken literally. When it says he made the world in 6 seven days, it does not mean 6 days of 24 hours. It could be 6 days of 5,000 years or something.
By the way, if you judge all things which you are ignorant about to be equivalent you`re in for a boring experience of life
Just shut up. Believe or disbelieve in whatever you want... just stop going after people who think differently. It`s annoying and half of us want to put you through a meat grinder for it.
Your mums so unnecessary
It`s an interesting finding, and, just for the heck of it, you have to bash Christians in the process?
It would have been absolutely perfect without any stupid heading.It`s so unnecessary.
The Field Museum has the specimen and I am going to be seeing it soon so I`m actually pretty excited
Then we replaced half or more of the links with tired old funny pictures, which I DO find amusing sometimes, but hell, I can find them everywhere on the web.
Then we started constant religion bashing just for the hell of it.
Now we click on one of the 2 or 3 interesting posts left per day, and we get advertising shoved down our throat instead.
Mod or not, I`m not sure how much longer I`ll be here. IAB is about 3% of the site it was when I first joined.
My thoughts exactly. Its really gone down the drain.
"Does Fancy have nothing better to do than bash religions and the Japanese?"
Yes. It wouldn`t be as fun around here if he didn`t. Now run along, church wont wait for ya!
I guess he doesn`t, but I`m fine with that.
Calm down people, its really not a big deal. So the guy hates religion, your not gonna change his mind. The best thing you can do is not click it, cuz guess what? Everytime you refresh the page to read the comments your giving this page more hits, and thus more money. stop supporting the things you hate.
Same here actually. 5 years ago IAB had 25 links a day, of which I found about 20 clickworthy, and it kept me entertained for about 2 hours a day.
Mod or not, I`m not sure how much longer I`ll be here. IAB is about 3% of the site it was when I first joined.
In any case, I`ve seen this before, and it`s very cool.
I see the new KKK homepage here.
Since fancylad became a f*cking non-nice individual who thinks that EVERY christian is a bible thumper with no scientific knowledge at all. Obviously fancy is running out of things to post on iab, so he has the daily christian bashing post so he can amuse the atheists. Putting an ignorant anti christian caption for a non christian related post is an all time low for iab.
Well...religion is like a house of cards. If you knock enough cards down, the whole house falls.
Science keeps knocking those cards down but christians refuse to admit that the house is falling! "
Well put. The problem I find with religion is the fact that it`s unfalsifiable, rendering arguing over religion useless. The fact that people can easily state that "God did it" or "God put fossils on Earth to test our faith" is dumb.
It is equivalent to me saying that our decisions are told to us by an invisible leprechaun on our shoulder. He can`t be detected in any sort of way. You can`t prove me wrong? How dandy --> let me go start my leprechaun religion.
I love science :D
You mean, 300th? No pizza for you until you study.
And none of them spout nonsense about passages that are "taken out of context". The Christians I know are actually sensible, and realize that the times the bible are talking about were cruel, harsh times.
Science keeps knocking those cards down but christians refuse to admit that the house is falling!
And was is pretty tounge and cheek.
2) The Christian-bashing is old.
can someone give me a link or something to fill me in?
1.Christian2.Someone who agrees that this could be a mammoth baby that is 40,000 years old.
Its a 40,000 years old news
I`m guessing the only christians you know are the ones on street corners holding signs. That`s too bad.
Not every Christian is some crazy, hardcore bible thumper, you know."
Because it`s fun.
And it`s very rare, that last part. VERRRYYY RAAAARE.
As in, not true. *tehehehe* I did it again, iab!
That`s not true. I`m a Christian, I know a lot of Christians, and I know maybe one or two people who believe the world is only 6000 years old or so.
yeah, the caption was in poor taste, the pic was interesting in its own right. i`d like to know what exactly they are using that grid for.
Because it`s fun.
As in, not true. *tehehehe* I did it again, iab!
eg "Back in the day" "The days of our forefathers"
Not every Christian is some crazy, hardcore bible thumper, you know.
I`m an atheist, but putting bible poo in the caption here doesn`t make sense. If other 40,000 year-old poo they found didn`t prove anything to Christians, this won`t, so why even mention it?