Peaceful Assembily is Attacked By Police

Submitted by: Subushie 7 years ago in

Do we really have freedom of speech? You decide...
There are 179 comments:
Male 3
I really think you guys are not fully understanding the situation. People were injured and buildings were damaged by these protestors. They interfered with the operation of the city and threatened it`s citizens. I cannot give you video because I do not beleive such video exists. What I can give you, as I live in Pittsburgh, is a firsthand account that these protestors turned violent. Not all of them. But what do you expect the police to do, wade into a crowd of potential hostiles to grab one person who is guilty of a more serious crime, or everybody that had already violated the city`s containment agreement? And republics are democracies, you need to take a civics class. As for Europeans broadly generaling the American sociopolitical sphere, particularly lycosam, I would ask you to show a shred of respect to Americans and at least have the decency not to label about 200 million people incorrectly.
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Male 712
:: it can be anywhere from nothing to a city ordinance to inciting a riot and a few places ::

First, I`d like to know if anyone has any footage or links to that footage of a masked man throwing a rock. If you do, have a look...that masked man can be arrested and charged with a felony which would be inciting a riot, yes, however, the police still do not have grounds to escalate a situation. These Pittsburgh officers obviously threw the de-escalation portion of the academy out of the window.

Misdemeanors and city ordinance violations, perhaps but nowhere have I seen anything that would show inciting a riot. Secondhand hearsay accounts being what they are, show me a video of those events occurring.

As for democracy, America never has been and is not now a democracy. It`s a constitutional republic and should remain that way.

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Male 193
America and the UK both have the same problems. That said, I`d rather live in Britain where the state, overarching as it is, is at least liberal and essentially left-wing, as opposed to the US where batpoo mental religious conservatives seem to be in control of so much.
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Male 549
listpoos - your damn right man. "paperwork" this paperwork is a tool of control, where is your god given rights? life liberty and the pursuit of happiness, you dont submit paperwork to be born, although through paper work the government will know of your existance an issue you a number, why then if you are protesting and assembling something would you turn yourself in with paperwork that will surely be declined. you dont ask to use your rights, you take them!
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
-- Thomas Jefferson

this country is tired of govnt oppression! only brainwashed liberals cant see the government is evil!!

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Male 271
pigs
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Male 138
stupid country...sorry, but it`s true and you know it! I was born in the US, but i live in Europe now, thank God.
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Male 3,147
Seems it`s not only my country that uses kettling on apparently peaceful protesters.

Let`s face it... non of us really have true democracy. yeah, our countries pay a bit of lip service to it, but when it comes down to their own citizens speaking out, they clamp down on it and spin the facts the way they want them.

the US & UK governments condemn Iran for beating peaceful protesters... but then do it themselves time and time again.

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Male 315
*a few places inbetween (got cut off)
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Male 315
I can usually side with police on matters like this, and in a way I still do here, but this might be a little too much. I`d like to see the footage from a non-bias perspective, or even a more intelligent perspective cause this guy just sounds like an idiot. (Who starts off a video like this with "real quick"?)

But I still would like to remind people that the individual officers are not to blame its their bosses at the top that ordered this response. Obviously police don`t get together to vote "oh hey should we go wreck that gathering?". So don`t blame the officer for hitting you with a baton, once they are in riot gear response mode, thats what they do. Unfortunately it`s like throwing a grenade at an ant, way too much. They could have just sent a handful of normal uniforms to hand it.

And no Genocyde, its not just a simple ordinance at worst. There is no video to judge, but it can be anywhere from nothing to a city ordinance to inciting a riot and a few places

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Male 7
i need to see the raw footage. compete and uncut.

everything else is just a spin tool

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Male 712
::The rights of the protesters were obstructing the rights of other pedestrians. The protesters were obstruction roadways. Roadways people have the right to use. Why should they be allowed to obstruct the rights of others, when they in fact broke the law, thus losing their rights to begin with, as serathis had stated.::

That would be a city ordinance violation at best and the most that could happen is a fine imposed. Fact is, these protesters were gathered in a park and doing nothing more than using a bullhorn. Again, that would be a city ordinance violation at best. When the police told them to disperse, they were dispersing only to find that no matter where they turned, more police were blocking their means of leaving, thus escalation was made on the part of the police, not the protestors.

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Male 3,646
The rights of the protesters were obstructing the rights of other pedestrians. The protesters were obstruction roadways. Roadways people have the right to use. Why should they be allowed to obstruct the rights of others, when they in fact broke the law, thus losing their rights to begin with, as serathis had stated.
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Male 712
::They didn`t assemble with the proper paper work i`m guessing. And Genocyde, you do have to ask someone to exercise your peaceful protest right. It`s to seperate the crazy`s from the honest protesters, for the benefit/protection of society.::

Wrong again. You only have to gain permission to exercise a privilege, not a right with which you were endowed from birth.

This argument is from the angle that the right is only reserved for a select few and the government will decide who those few are. Might want to take a civics refresher as well.

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Male 274
They didn`t assemble with the proper paper work i`m guessing. And Genocyde, you do have to ask someone to exercise your peaceful protest right. It`s to seperate the crazy`s from the honest protesters, for the benefit/protection of society.
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Male 174
@ accgoalie13

I misunderstood what you were saying. You are right, the colour is to do with the impurities.
However, SilentFray was disputing the fact that pumping oxygen into a fire increases the reaction and thusly temperature.

PS: accgoalie13 Thanks for keeping you reply well educated and non-critizising.

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Male 3
@joey7415963


Sorry, I am not trying argue or discredit you, I was simply trying to inform.

Wikipedia is partially right. Like I said, changing the in inlet conditions does change how the reaction occurs. You have the same amount of air available. I did not say the temperature didn`t change. Naturally, a more complete reaction will put out more heat. But that is not why you are seeing a change in the color of the flame. The color of the flame is depended on the amount of impurities, or soot, in the flame. A more complete reaction does not have as many impurities in it.

In a furnace you are correct in that you are adding more oxidizer to a reaction. It is not a completely open system. A bunsen burner is an open flame and there is nothing restricting the availability of oxygen to the system.

Thank you for listening

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Male 174
@ SilentFray

I`m sorry but it didn`t warrent quoting a scientific journal, it is commmon fact that a fire burns hotter with more oxygen, in fact with the bunsen burner the hottest it will be is when you have a blue flame and you take the measurement at the apex of the blue flame!
I suggest before disputing my argument, again, you check your facts. I have shown a remedial document (Wikipedia) that explains the concept. You have disputed this on your own knowledge and have proved that you do not know what you are talking about!

So good night to you to!

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Male 3
I have lurked on this site for a while, this video finally drove me over the edge. I live in Pittsburgh, so I know for a fact that the overwhelming majority of protests were NOT peaceful. One of my friends was among the National Guardsmen at the protests. The protesters were given specific areas to assemble in, and these boundaries were not respected. They were also arrested for throwing stones, bottles, and other weapons at the lawmen. CS gas and smoke grenades were used to disperse crowds and if the methods were resisted police moved in and began using batons and shields to push people out of the forbidden areas. Notice how the footage is consistently backing up what he says until the part about tear gas in his face, which is suspiciously missing.
The protesters were in the wrong over and over again, don`t buy into this garbage about 1st amendment rights being violated.
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Male 712
::Well Genocyde, it may be a right to bear arms, but it`s still illegal to own an AK47 (in America at least).
And it`s a right to peaceful assembly. But it`s still illegal to gather without proper paperwork.
It`s also illegal to own a gun without a permit. Therefore, your argument is seriously flawed.

Something is missing here, methinks... in fact me knows.::

You`re right, something is missing there...the fact that you don`t have to ask anyone to exercise a right with which you are born. Might want to read through The Constitution again or at least take a Civics refresher.

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Male 549
sohtlofagny- you are right man, most of the people on here dont even know who or what the g20 is. the g20 runs the world, they are world government, its real and its kept under secrecy, why do you think the most powerful group of financers (g20) make all their meetings in secret. there are others like them as well
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Male 103
I dunno about you guys. Protesting isn`t hippy, it`s American. It`s voicing your opinion, and if you`ve been swaded to believe otherwise you might as well give up your rights and move to North Korea, damn commies. Also what about this wasn`t peaceful? It was a total infringement on rights and you know it.
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Male 32
Noamfer: lol No you wouldn`t. You would lie down like everyone else in that video did.
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Male 32
This whole video seems sketchy as hell. This is just like one of those videos of students who deliberately leave out the fact that they harass, assault, and damage property before the police show up and "take away their rights." I know the police station wouldn`t shove 1,000 officers in riot gear for a group of students protesting in a park, legal or not. They simply don`t have the money or patience. Maybe 50 in riot gear at the most, but not nearly the amount shown in the video.

There is something seriously fishy about this video, and I suspect the story is going to disappear completely once the real proof is out there for everyone to see in court. I wouldn`t be surprised if these people starting doing illegal crap to lure the police out there, only to claim that they`re being silenced by the government.

I love the fresh smell of fear-mongering and propaganda in the morning.

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Male 172
I`d shoot every single policeman in the ass. Seriously, tear gas? I would drat them up
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Male 992
Peaceful protesters my ass.....good for the troopers.
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Male 413
damn dirty hippies
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Male 724
Wow people protesting at the G20 Summit, beating should be dish out simply because its getting old. (Jk lol.)
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Male 549
duckboy - also was this "Oooooo" an attempt at sarcasm or where you trying to patronize me? id rather have a real debate sorry wont respond with the same foolery
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Male 549
it seems orwellian to say that paperwork is needed to assemble, paperwork for a gun is one thing, i understand the logic behind it although not sure if i agree with it. but what is america without the right to gather people of like minds to talk and expose certain things at a rally? now im not saying the rules arent in place, im saying the rules are wrong. where is freedom if people cant unite at a park to talk? where is liberty in letting your government know everything you do?
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Male 3,646
Sorry oceanbeast, I forgot the words "fully automatic". Ooooo, like that really makes a difference to the people in this video, people who probably want to get rid of the second amendment. Though unless you procure the stamp tax and meet the proper requirements for such a firearm. Though probably the only place to get such requirement is through military training, or at least the easiest.
And even you said it PROPER PAPERWORK! You need PROPER PAPERWORK to own and operate a gun, and you need PROPER PAPERWORK to have a mass gathering.
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Male 549
ak47`s are not illegal you can even have a full auto one if you get all the paperwork. whats wrong with america!?! you need paperwork to assemble? seems a ss backwards, if we have to ask to express our rights then arent we slaves? we should be able to gather anywhere for any reason as long as it brings no harm to anyone.
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Male 3,646
Well Genocyde, it may be a right to bear arms, but it`s still illegal to own an AK47 (in America at least).
And it`s a right to peaceful assembly. But it`s still illegal to gather without proper paperwork.
It`s also illegal to own a gun without a permit. Therefore, your argument is seriously flawed.

Something is missing here, methinks... in fact me knows.

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Male 549
whether you agree with it or not, you are having military-like forces controlling a crowd of protesters. this is looking pretty scary, this happened in miami a few years back but the police didnt send out this many men.
do you know who the g20 is?! inform yourself, do you know why so many troops where out? they have the money to pay for protection, the g20 is one of the most powerful assemblies on earth, and they arent looking out for you, they are very much your captor. we must protest these groups, realize our country isnt ours anymore, soon there will be a revolution, we have to take back the government it has been made too big and too shady .
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Male 712
First Amendment clearly states that we have the Right to peaceably assemble to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

It`s a Right, not a privilege. In order to exercise a Right, you just do it. You don`t ask permission from anyone.

That`s sorta like the Right to Keep and Bear Arms. You just do it. Don`t ask anyone for a damn thing...

That being said. If the police want a crowd to disperse...then, here`s a novel idea. How about allowing them to do it. Might work. You might not encounter too many who are willing to act rationally.

By the way, if one guy in a mask tosses a rock, arrest him.

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Male 122
"What would you do if a can of tear gas landed in front of you because a guy in a mask threw a rock?"

Run away with the most apolitical gait you`ve ever seen.

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Male 561
Oh, and maddog ,I meant the protester in my original statement. You made the assumption.
Welcome to the dumb-masses.
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Male 987
"I dislike extremists no matter which side they are on."
drating seconded.
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Male 3,431
Parks are a "Day Use Area" meaning they`re closed after sunset for public safety. As a citizen, I sure as hell don`t want a rally going down in a park after night fall because I can very nearly guarantee that it will end up being trouble.

That being said, if you want to be sure the power stays in the hands of the People, be sure you support your second amendment right. It`s the only reason we have all of the other liberties our forbearers fought against European oppressors to gain.

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Male 678
I just spent the entire day looking at G20 riot videos. What a terrible day that will go down in history. Both sides, both police and protester all across the world went about it the same way. A few ruin the message by acting like jackasses. the police are forced to act and overreact they did. What does this tell everyone. Obviously the plan of getting the public message across isn`t working. Any suggestion IAB`ers? What would you do if a can of tear gas landed in front of you because a guy in a mask threw a rock?
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Female 288
@cleminem:

Who cares if it`s a Nazi rally? Even if they WERE sitting in the park trying to bring an army of Aryans, it wouldn`t matter. Millions of beleifs and races are discriminated every day, and whatever they happen to be gathering for, no matter how bothersome they were being, the police had no right to stop or abuse them. It doesn`t matter what you beleive is wrong, because no matter what you think, there`s gonna be someone out there to disagree with you. Everyone should get a chance to speak their mind, no matter what it means or who it offends.

Leaving that topic, at 0:48 there`s a sheild-holding fail. Policeman, you`re doin it rong.

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Female 678
"Are we sure this is a protest and not the aftermath of the Steelers` home loss to the Bengals?"

That was lame. If you`re going to insult anyone at least be clever with it.

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Male 147
For cryin` out loud, most of the protestors were scared by the people that lived there ,because the homeowners chose to protect themselves and let it be known that thier town would not be taken over (I Love Pittsburgh).

Secondly there was never any military in Pittsburgh.

Thirdly, the Idiot in the first part of the video was one of the main instigators.

Finally, the reason that people were were so on edge was because of the actions of the protestors in London and Seattle.

The protestors are so FULL OF S H I T!!!

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Male 147
As stated before, THE NATIONAL GUARD WAS NEVER CALLED OUT IN PITTSBURGH!!!

Most of the protests were limited and were a JOKE!!!

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Male 9
dont blame the soilders blame the pigs
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Male 1,523
Ok I got a few things to say bout` this...
-That guy totally looks like George McFly!
-Thats was completely unnecessary, unless those people are lying.
-IT LOOKS SO MUCH LIKE HALF LIFE 2!
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Male 383
I would like to find out what they all are protesting or assembling for.... if its something like a neo-nazi rally, i say go police! throw more tear gas! But since he conveniently doesn`t tell us, i don`t think we will find out anytime soon....
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Male 1,590
Are we sure this is a protest and not the aftermath of the Steelers` home loss to the Bengals?
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Male 496
Yeah, nice editing, does not change the fact that these guys were doing more than "peacefully protesting" and conveiniently mananged to only show footage of them being "persecuted".

Riot police don`t just "show up" at a peaceful protest. If riot police were there, then those kids wereup to something and are now looking for sympathy from the rest of the world.

Personally, I think they need a spellchecker first.

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Male 3,369
SaltyVarnish

Will do! Not gonna happen but you all can hope!

Or not! I`ve seen my ass! Scary stuff!

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Male 678
maddog if you do end up baring your ass in woolies please include the IAB logo on the left ass cheek for verification.
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Male 3,369
arcticsheep

Thats warning number one! Any more racism from you and you can say buh bye to posting rights!

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Male 3,369
TalcumX

Please explain! How is Obama responsible for this? You said it, not me! Show the rest of the world how this didnt happen under Bush please! I`m not painting him as a saint. I cant vote for him for a start!

As I said..I`m not American so it`s not my problem, but to say this is "Obamas world" is outright stupid! This has happened in America for how many generations now?

Please feel free to correct me! I dont take offence at being proven wrong! I`m off to bed now but I will answer (tomorrow) how you explain how this is diffrent from 2, 3, 4 or 40 years ago in America! I`ll admit to being a wanker and bare my ass in Woolworths window if you disprove me!

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Male 561
Hey maddog,so if I don`t agree with your opinion, I should not state mine? That is exactly the point I was making. Yours is the mindset of the sheep.
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Male 121
If they had permission from the city, none of this would have happened. Enough said.
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Female 22
"America stands for freedom, but if you think you`re free, try walking into a deli and urinating on the cheese!!!" Anarchy Burger - The Vandals
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Male 561
Wow...I`ve never been called a `tit` before...Thanx.
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Male 3,369
TalcumX
Male, 50-59, Eastern US
336 Posts Monday, November 16, 2009 4:04:31 PM
Welcome to obama`s world
----------------------------------------------------

You tit!

No really. How many vids like this did we see under Bush! I dunno but I lost count! I`m not American so it`s not my problem but this crap has been happening for a long time! Dont Blame Obama when the police state started before he was elected!

So if you cant accept facts stop posting please!

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Female 3,598
woah... you are sheeple.
wow. we cannot let this get out of control people. that man was right. if you give the government an inch it will take a mile.
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Male 569
can`t watch. "assembily" ruined it for me already.
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Male 561
Welcome to obama`s world
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Male 422
Maybe teh police pirates had hidden teasure under the park...thats smy explanation
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Female 846
yea shur, the whole US government was ennacted and put forth 225 years ago for the sole perpose of busting your chops. like the government would spend taxpayers dollars to break up a "peaceful" assembly, and spray mase in "law abiding" citizens` faces for no reason other then to get a few good laughs.

get over yourself. obvious there was a good reason for them to be there.


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Female 678
@joey

Wow you`re still caught up on the more air = hotter flame. If you can pull a better site than wiki or one that`s not on the first page of a google search, I might give you a chance. BUT you don`t so good night.

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Male 716
I`m not reading all these comments... It seems to be 9/11 conspiracies all over again.

Your "scientific fact" will not help you prove your point. Too many variables in the real world. If you want to prove your point, you`re going to have to hunt down some documents on it or whatnot.
________

Anyways, all I have to say is..

These people did something Really bad... or they know something they shouldn`t.

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Male 19
I dislike extremists no matter which side they are on.
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Female 107
Looks set up. Pittsburg has a lot of police, but thousands? in riot gear? over a "peaceful" protest? Un-F-ing-likely.
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Male 478
Misspelled Peaceful "assembily" is misspelled.
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Male 233
"Nice one sided argument. Would be interesting to hear the other side."
Exactly what I was thinking.
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Male 174
@accgoalie13

Taken from Wikipedia:

"The amount of air (or rather oxygen) mixed with the gas stream affects the completeness of the combustion reaction. Less air yields an incomplete and thus cooler reaction, while a gas stream well mixed with air provides oxygen in an equimolar amount and thus a complete and hotter reaction. The air flow can be controlled by opening or closing the slot openings at the base of the barrel, similar in function to the choke in a car`s carburetor."

It does increase temperature, in a similar way to a furnace by pumping in Oxygen!

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Male 678
I have read to many posts i cant remember who....but..... to the guy that said something along the lines......who knows what the gov does behind closed doors, how many hoops they have to jump through to make a change all the work they do is not simple and takes time to make a real economic change.

I ask don`t you think this is a problem? Why does it take so much to make a change? Is it political job security or smoke and mirrors to confuse? I am not a economic expert nor do i want to be. but I do believe the public should fight to make change simpler.

As for sickntired, good to have a opinion and i respect your views and agree with some but get to the point i don`t want to be preached to by someone with no ambition in life.

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Male 3,332
Nice one sided argument. Would be interesting to hear the other side.
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Male 108
Thank you very much for this link. It`s important to open people`s eyes from time to time and wake them up a little bit.
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Male 678
All laws are subject to the interpretation of the man with the biggest gun or the largest force. America, being the largest trigger happy force in the world will create its own biased viewpoint on any law/situation. I agree completely with maddog! you don`t NEED that force to take control of a situation.
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Male 1,646
"Not to mention the amount of people needed to pull such of a conspiricy would make it impossible."

yes, that argument would be understandable if it was something like some inside organization or something, but this is the U.S. government, and as i stated before. the government only seems clumsy up close, but behind closed doors they are capable of anything imaginable.

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Male 193
the argument is so insane, with the proof they already have the trial should be given to these people
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Male 3

"If you think about a bunsen burner, you have a yellow flame, then you open the vent at the base of the burner to let Oxygen from the air be drawn into the mixture and then you get the much hotter blue flame."

Opening the base of a bunsen burner does not let more oxygen into the flame. It changes how the air mixes with the fule. When the base is open this allows for the air to mix with the fuel (premixed flame). When its closed the air has to mix with the fuel at the outlet of the burner, thus the flame is not as pure. The orange and red you see is not the change in temperature but the amount of soot in the flame. If a flame where actually get to the point where it were put out blue light it would completely melt the bunsen and probably set everything near it on fire.

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Female 678
@accgoalie13

Yup, that`ll do it. All it takes is a hairline crack or a gas pocket and the stress will blow it right out.

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Male 14,331
From what I`ve seen everything about the molten steel is a myth.All reports of it are second hand and there`s no evidence of any molten steel or thermite residue which would be capabel of doing that.Not to mention the amount of people needed to pull such of a conspiricy would make it impossible.
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Male 3
"How long was it burning? for hours and hours...then yes. but they towers fell within TWO hours. Holding steel at 300 degrees (less actualy because of the heat sink affect) would only cause a slight sag. The beams and the rest of the building should of held up."

The building failed because the welds failed on one of the floors close to the crash site. Once one floor failed it was just a domino effect. One floor fell ontop of the one below it causing the welds there to fail. This domino effect is what caused the beams to eventually fail and become distorted.

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Female 678
what rubin0nrye was getting to is:

Pittsburgh is a nice place to live. There`s not that much crime, the people are nice (except to Philadelphia fans) and the area has a unique culture. He was right. Those WERE NOT Pittsburgh Police officers, they were military. The whole time leading up to the events the big headline was, "Does Pittsburgh have enough cops to handle the event." The city replied, "No." Soooooooooooo they called on the US gaurd and what not to fill in. This is vary rare for the city.

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Female 678
"maybe it wouldent need to melt, but somehow it did..."

Exactly, things don`t add up at all. That`s what these people are trying to figure out. There`s educated people asking question and getting no answer.

It`s all politics and no science. What happened to science?

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Male 174
Some great replies to your argument here:

http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread....

Laboratory conditions are never true in real life, there are too many variables.

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Male 51
@AnwarNova "I`m not surprised this happened in Pittsburg. That place is notorious for violating the rights of peoples." (sic)

How is my city "notorious for violating the rights of peoples"? That is a BOLD statement not to back up.

Besides, if you knew anything substantial about the G20 police abuse, you would know that the majority of the police force here were NOT Pittsburgh police, but imported from other areas specifically for the G20. They covered their badges when they were doing something wrong because they knew nobody would be able to find or identify them; they would be half across the country by then.

To blame Pittsburgh for the actions of police that could very well have been from YOUR city is - dare I say it due to the recent arguments on this board - naive.

Just because we beat you in hockey and football doesn`t mean you can attack our civil servants. Meanwhile, you should read some of the many articles talking about the extreme politeness and fa

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Male 1,646
"It didn`t need to melt to give."

true, but in hundreds of videos and pictures of them cleaning up ground zero there is molten steel up to 2 weeks after the attack. so maybe it wouldent need to melt, but somehow it did...

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Female 678
"I`d like to see evidence of this because I`ve seen a lumber store burn down and twist steel I-beams like pretzels. I doubt wood and costruction chemicals burn hotter than jet fuel."

How long was it burning? for hours and hours...then yes. but they towers fell within TWO hours. Holding steel at 300 degrees (less actualy because of the heat sink affect) would only cause a slight sag. The beams and the rest of the building should of held up.

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Male 14,331
Oh I missed the key there melt.It didn`t need to melt to give. Try to bend a piece of steel then take a torch heat the steel till it`s red try to bend it again much easier isn`t it.
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Male 14,331
"jet-fuel does not burn at a high enough temperature to melt steal"

I`d like to see evidence of this because I`ve seen a lumber store burn down and twist steel I-beams like pretzels. I doubt wood and costruction chemicals burn hotter than jet fuel.

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Female 678
Air is only 20% Oxygen! You still need a lot more heat.

A lesson in steel making:

Steel makers use a metallurgical coal called coke. This coke burns at 1832 degrees and along with the air burst you can bring it to a temperature that can melt steel.

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Male 25,416
NO comment ....
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Male 174
Hmmm maybe I`m not remembering back to my Chemistry lessons, but if you have a fueled fire, then pump in Oxygen does it not considerably pump up the heat?

If you think about a bunsen burner, you have a yellow flame, then you open the vent at the base of the burner to let Oxygen from the air be drawn into the mixture and then you get the much hotter blue flame.

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Male 3,755
Well, we`re talking about it.

By the way, I must do it and I`m sure tons of others have, but...

Assembly is misspelled.

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Female 14
What a little f_cking liar.
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Male 174
Hmmm maybe I`m not remembering back to my Chemistry lessons, but if you have a fueled fire, then pump in Oxygen does it not considerably pump up the heat?

If you think about a bunsen burner, you have a yellow flame, then you open the vent at the base of the burner to let Oxygen from the air be drawn into the mixture and then you get the much hotter blue flame.

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Female 678
"Yes the metal can withstand a kerasine fire, but what about a kerasine fire injected with 70mph winds. At that hight the shear amount of wind would create a `blast furnace` some of the recovered wrekage of the towers showed warped metal columns!"

Again, wheres the heat? To do what you`re talking about you need an intense amount of heat. You`re not going to get that with jet fuel.

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Female 678
"The WTC towers 1 and 2, were built to withstand multiple collisions from aircraft of any kind, and jet-fuel does not burn at a high enough temperature to melt steal. although it can burn high enough to weaken the building, but not enough to make it collapse."

The steel in the rest of the building would pull the heat away from the affected area (aka Heat Sink). Fuel burns at 300 degrees, structual steel burns at (roughly depending on carbon content) 2400 degrees. Thermite on the other hand burns at 3000 degrees and was found diluted in the remaining slag (oxidized metal due to a cutting process) on the site.

I`m not on any one side. I`m just leading you to water. It`s up to you to take a drink.

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Male 174
Yes the metal can withstand a kerasine fire, but what about a kerasine fire injected with 70mph winds. At that hight the shear amount of wind would create a `blast furnace` some of the recovered wrekage of the towers showed warped metal columns!

Whilst I do agree there are sketchy things surrounding the whole topic, there remain things that can be attempted to be explained.

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Male 2,076
"they are just non-nice individuals and probobly deserved what they got"

Nobody deserves to be assaulted by the police for using their rights.

I`m not surprised this happened in Pittsburg. That place is notorious for violating the rights of peoples.

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Male 1,646
"that the planes did not cause the collapse."

lord, im tired of this, but i keep on seeing stuff that makes me want to explain this.

The WTC towers 1 and 2, were built to withstand multiple collisions from aircraft of any kind, and jet-fuel does not burn at a high enough temperature to melt steal. although it can burn high enough to weaken the building, but not enough to make it collapse. and on top of it all, WTC 7 witch im sure you don`t even think about, wasn`t even hit by a plane and collapsed from "fire" and on top of everything, any reasons as to why it collapsed are completely left out of the 9/11 commission report. if that doesn`t sound at the least, sketchy to you, idk what will.

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Male 338
i`m always skeptical when footage is edited in this manner... i guess i could believe it a lot easier if it was simply just raw footage...
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Male 174
I am not an idiot! Like I said I am sure I have a far greater academic career than you! Just because someone does not beleive what you beleive it does not make them an idiot! It is not fact, it is name-calling! Where are your facts? You ask me for facts but you haven`t supplied anything but opinion! Now take everyone`s advice and chill out, re-join when you can express an OPINION without calling alternative OPINIONS idiotic or blind or niave!
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Male 101
www.wearechange.com is a group of people trying to prove that the government caused 9/11, go to the site they claim things like al qaeda is not real, and that the planes did not cause the collapse. they are just non-nice individuals and probobly deserved what they got, however free speech is free speech, but check the site out its full of bullpoo and propaganda.
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Male 14,331

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Male 8
ok sub, you`ve got a good point. Im leaving.
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Male 8
LMFAO, its not name calling, its an actual fact. If you think we have rights you are an idiot. It is clear that we have no rights. Civil rights is an illusion. To convince yourself otherswise means, to me, you are blind and niave. You show me where theres REAL proof of a right to bear arms, a right to speak comletely freely where it would actually matter, any number of so called rights we have that when it comes down to it, we clearly dont. The government is greater and you will lose everytime. To fight them will just make your life hell and you will change nothing. Because i see that does not make me greater. And because you are an idiot does not make me greater. Im Sorry your an idiot. But its just something we all have to live with. Its what makes us human.
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Male 1,646
@sicandtired
at the risk of being verbally molested by you, i believe joey was attempting to end the argument in a peaceful manner, so how about you take a breath and chill out. being angry and trying to make a point are very hard to do at the same time and normally make you come off as a crazy person, take a breath. next time you wish to state an opinion, do it calmly.
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Female 112
I want to see the whole video, not just the spliced together stuff. I want to see what you were doing before the cops got there. I want to see everything that happened. This was like watching a propaganda film.
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Male 8
No, no, thats directed at you! You are blind, you are naive. My first message was not to you, but to the kid in the video. Thats what i was commenting on. The rest is most definitely directed at your dumbass. After i was told by you to STFU like your somebody who really matters. A few generations after you are dead you will be forgotten. Its just life, i mean, ive learned to live with it, you should too. So, Im not sure why you are pointing out the things i said to you as proof that im greater than all. No, thats not the case, you have made yourself stand out and have proven yourself an ass hole to me which at least shows me that i am greater than you.
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Male 174
"anyone who keeps telling themselves we do have rights is an idiot"

Your also enforcing your opinion through mindless name calling, that is why I `attacked` you.

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Female 4,039
@rubinonrye "they were flinging feces at us, and generally doing VERY illegal things"

GTF out? Really? People are f`ing crazy.

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Male 174
"I do not think i am better than anyone else at all"

Of course you don`t:

"Your thick little mind is too small to understand the meaning of anything"

"Your blind, your naive, and your nothing"

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Male 8
Joey i can see you completely dont understand my train of thought at all. And thats ok, because it may not make complete sense because i dont have the words to explain it all. But you are so very wrong. I do not think i am better than anyone else at all. I have not claimed at all to be greater than any. I am a stone on the side of the road just as the next person. I feel plenty of times where i have also been kicked down the road in amusement. My message is to anyone who does think they are greater than. And the other poster is right, i am kinda just venting. I just get a huge kick out people who think they matter. My message was technically directed directly at the person in the video and his followers. I wasnt commenting on a single thing in the comments until i saw joey attack me. Who the drat are you to tell me to shut up. We dont have any civil rights and there is tons of evidence to prove it and anyone who keeps telling themselves we do have rights is an idiot.
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Female 678
The police also gassed and beat a few University of Pitt students. Here`s another view and you can see that the students didn`t do anything. Check out the scene on the stairway. Some people were just trapped in the middle of it all.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZT3O5m0E...

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Male 12,365
Good grief, are there still burbling fools who think that the USA government attacked the WTC and the Pentagon?

Even LSD isn`t a powerful enough hallucinogen to explain anyone believing that crap.

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Male 174
Lol, I was going to say something about "you`re" aswell.

PS: Sorry for posting off topic, I don`t mind people having alternative opinions but when they throw insults at people with other beliefs (as in sickandtired) I will question them!

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Male 4,239
the land of the free
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Male 127
lol rage
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Male 7,378
There`s more about 9/11 than you think you know. Google "William Rodriguez" for more.
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Male 84
sicandtired, go suck some nads. you make no sense at all. oh wait, thats probably because i have a "thick skull" with a "small brain" so i wouldnt get it. but in any case, you`re probably having a bad day since your posts make no sense and you`re just venting at joey because that last post had nothing to do with this article. oh, and another thing, YOU`RE retarted. YOUR spelling of "your" really annoys me. for someone who is so smart, you`re really not.
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Male 51
I live in Oakland, the park shown in the videos is my back yard. This guy is twisting the situation in major ways.

The protesters were on a College Campus and in an area illegal to assemble, even peacefully. Sadly, it was not peacefully. The man in the video does not tell you about how every business window up and down the main streets in Pittsburgh were smashed, even Mom n Pop shops. Students were being assaulted by protesters, they were flinging feces at us, and generally doing VERY illegal things. The cops were doing their job the best they could in dealing with these A-Holes who think they have the right to do anything.

What the cops DID do wrong: they treated EVERYBODY like they were a protester. Students were clubbed, tear gassed, etc. just for being on the street. My good friend was leaving a bar, and as soon as she stepped onto the street, she was hit in the arm with a tear gas canister, cutting her badly.

Don`t listen to these complaints, the students were the real victi

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Female 178
this is absurd.
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Male 670
thats the type of poo that turns an ordinary citizen, into a home-grown terrorist. good job asswipes, you`ve just created the next taliban!
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Male 174
@ sickandtired

Again, what makes you think you matter more than me or anyone else on IAB?
What makes you think your intellect is so much greater than everyone elses?

TBH, I`m probably much more academically advanced than you, what qualifications do you have to warrent that I am but a mere stone for your amusement? I probably have a much better life without the need to fool myself into a false sense that I am so much better than everyone else.

You’re a troll and so again I say STFU!

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Male 8
Again, joey, I will say whatever the f u c k I want cause I call it how I see it. You dont seem to have anything worth while saying at all. Your blind, your naive, and your nothing. Your like a small little stone lying by the side of the road. As i walk by i may kick you down the road more for some amusement, or i may just step right over you like i dont even notice your there. I can chose to use you for my amusement or not. You think you matter, but again thats because you are blind and naive. You dont matter, not one iota. But im sure youll go on with your meaningless life trying to convince yourself in some way or the other that you do matter. You DO make a difference. But once you die...that period on the end of pointless ness....you will see that you didnt, dont and wont matter....ever. But im trying to make you understand something that your small mind just wont be able to wrap itself around. Im sorry if line of reasoning is too deep for you to grasp.
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Male 1,646
"but yet our own government can`t even do the simplest of tasks without screwing it up. "

Publicly, they cant. to reform things like health care, and fix the economy. it takes channels, and voting and hundreds of different hoops they have to jump through to get something as simple as a tax raise initiated. but behind closed doors, no one is aware what our government is capable of... when they dont have to sign papers and ask congress, and make campaigns. without people holding it back, our government can be a very powerful entity.

and per the zeitgeist argument, there are equal amounts of people for and against the claims they make about the government. so I`m going to just agree to disagree with you on that.

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Male 2,440
[quote]maybe wearechange believes certain things that are far-fetched, but the idea that our own government caused 9/11 is highly probable. and shouldn`t be overlooked simply because it sounds crazy. the government had everything to gain from the atrocities of 9/11. The patriot act, for one.[/quote]

Just because the government took advantage of a crisis doesn`t mean they directly caused it. The bullsh*t claims by 9/11 Troofers SHOULD be disregarded. They claim that US government orchestrated 9/11, but yet our own government can`t even do the simplest of tasks without screwing it up.

[quote]so assuming this is true. there should be a link or some report that you have read that says that zeitgeist is non-sense.[/quote]

There`s this thing called Google. Take two seconds and use it.

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Male 174
@ sickandtired: Don`t ponse around thinking you have some sort of divine knowledge of what is truly happening and calling us all BLIND or making pathetic statements like DON`T YOU GET IT?

Tard! STFU!

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Male 8
Joey...Go f u c k yourself. Ill say whatever i want to say peon. Your thick little mind is too small to understand the meaning of anything. Go back to living your meaningless little life...it will be over soon.
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Male 174
@ sickandtired;

<sarchasm>
Oh how wise you are, I am so thankfull you enlightened me with your infinite wisdom! </sarchasm>

STFU!

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Male 1,646
@pooptart12

maybe wearechange believes certain things that are far-fetched, but the idea that our own government caused 9/11 is highly probable. and shouldn`t be overlooked simply because it sounds crazy. the government had everything to gain from the atrocities of 9/11. The patriot act, for one.

"that has been refuted time and time again."
so assuming this is true. there should be a link or some report that you have read that says that zeitgeist is non-sense.

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Male 147
I live in Pittsburgh and the National Guard was never here. The guy with the mic at the start of the vid was one of the biggest instigators. The funniest part of this was when the protestors walked through Lawrenceville the homeowners were out on thier porches holding baseball bats and axe handles in order to protect thier homes from the protestors.

Most of the arrests were in the Oakland area which was an illegal assembly.

All in all, after it was all done, the protestors turned out to be a bunch of wimps.

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Male 14,331
I don`t understand these people in one breath they say Geogre Bush is an idiot. Then they say he made 9/11 wouldn`t you have to be pretty friggen smart to keep that many people required to pull this off quite. Nixon couldn`t even pull election fraud how the hell would the government pull of 9/11.
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Male 376
I didn`t make it though the whole video because I couldn`t stand that pretentious douche "reporter."
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Male 2,440
[quote]pooptart19, how is it so unbelievable? they use the same proof that the government is using to accuse the extremist Muslims, they just have different idea`s of who to accuse.[/quote]

No, they are a bunch of pseudointellectuals who listen to nutjobs like Alex Jones and think that the US is run by either the Illuminati, the Free Masons, or the reptilian humanoids from the Alpha Draconis star system. They are insane.

[quote]and you show me your proof that zeitgeist ideas and theories aren`t true.[/quote]

That is not how we go about things. You first have to back up your claims with evidence. What you are asking me to do is the equivalent to saying "Prove to me that Xenu ISN`T real and that thetans DON`T inhabit the body!" I can`t prove a negative.

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Male 17,511
First off there is a curfew in the park, Secondly this "Peaceful" group had been lobbing rocks and such at the police all day. Thirdly hurling insults at police with a megaphone is just asking for a cracked skull.

Bottom line is, People need sleep. Your civil liberties don`t include infringing upon others right to a peaceful nights sleep. This includes all those idiots with 1000watt subwoofers cranked up at 3am, Bastiches!

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Male 256
I`m not too fussed what happened that day, but needing permission to "rally"? I`m sure this is what started the civil war in Ireland.
Yet more videos of the USA slowly losing the fight...
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Male 1,646
pooptart19, how is it so unbelievable? they use the same proof that the government is using to accuse the extremist Muslims, they just have different idea`s of who to accuse. and you show me your proof that zeitgeist ideas and theories aren`t true.
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Male 1,270
The guy in the video makes me want to club him over the head with a nightstick.

How good would that feel?! :-D

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Female 635
First off, wearechange is, yes, a lot of conspiracy theorists.
I don`t care. Even conspiracy theorists have the right to free speach.
Just like you and me and everybody.
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Male 2,440
Subushie, there is no validity to what these 9/11 Troofers claim and Zeitgeist is utter tripe that has been refuted time and time again. Take off your tin foil hat and use your common sense.
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Male 4,807
SilentFray>>>> Thanks for the link, cool street view.
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Male 8
Dont you all get it?? Are you all really that blind? Theres no civil rights! Theres probably never been. I definitely see that its getting worse. But youve got no rights? You may have some BASIC civil PRIVILEGES That they allow us to have. But they will even strip you of those behind closed doors. And the majority of americans, blind, dumb, ignorant, naive, people...and not just because they are americans, but because they are human....will look at this and say good, you dumbasses deserve this. And cant even SEE that fact that they are watching THEIR so called civil liberties being stomped on in their face just as much as if it was them. You need to realize that civil liberties is an illusion. and you can think your gonna fight for them all you want but youll really do nothing. Except make trouble for yourself. When you realize that this is a police state, you have no rights and your not gonna win against the government... i dont know, maybe then youll be at piece with your
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Male 8
PEACE with yourself or something. Its just life to me, there is no control, I just try not to put myself in those situations cause it just makes life harder on myself. See, i realize i have no rights. I dont like it, but i also see that not one country in the world has rights. Its just life. your really no better than a rock on the side of the road. Equal rights is a modern fairy tale. Id rather sit as comfortable as this life allows me in my house with the company i choose. Not being beaten and tear gassed. While i watch for all you idiots fight for my "civil rights" Notice how your the only ones that speak out. The pigs dont say poo and have nothing to say because they dont need to say anything. They just beat you and lock you up.
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Male 1,646
and BTW people who are saying that it is a 9/11 conspiracy. if you look into what these and many other groups are claiming, there is alot of volatility to there stories. the 9/11 commission report is less detailed then pretty much all of these "9/11 nuts" theories. stop believing everything the government and the media slings your way, just because its said by someone that 100,000,000 people believe doesn`t mean you have to

here`s a little food for your brain
http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/

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Male 2,440
Ugh, 9/11 Troofers. The whole lot of them need to be severely smacked upside their little noggins. I highly doubt they were being as innocent as they claim.
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Male 4,807
Constitution??
Americans seem to think they have one after 911?

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Female 678
Here`s a taste of what was going on elsewhere when this was going on.

http://www.in.com/videos/watchvideo-g20-...

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Male 1,929
Forgive me if I don`t believe they were entirely innocent. If I had a point, I`d try to publicise this event WITHOUT asking for money at the end.
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Male 3,369
Whatever really happened, thats messed up!

Thats a serious show from the police! Thats the sort of crap that starts riots, not ends them!

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Male 1,646
I posted this! yay!
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Male 56
This is ridiculous. There isn`t much else to say.
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Male 10,440
I saw the site... these are 9/11 nuts.

I`m not going to argue for either side, as both are stupid.

lol @ est87... yes. There is a 100% chance that will happen...

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Male 2,690
Wow this is ridiculous. Many cops get power hungry and do idiotic things, but of this stature? Wth.
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Male 79
Went to their website and wasnt TOO surprised to see that they spew a lot of propaganda. They believe 9/11 was the work of our own government and other such opinions, which I`m fine with people believeing in even if i dont, however they seem to be misleading in a lot fo their vids. Just saying what other people here are saying, research what happened before throwing yur opinion behind them.
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Female 2,509
evaave87

either the local colleges cancelled classes at night (when this protest was) or closed completely. Your friend didn`t go to class cause they were cancelled.

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Female 2,509
I work not even 1/4 mile from where the "peaceful" protest was. There were only a few incidents of police stepping in. One group did not have a permit, one was throwing items and the other group had a smoking device. Another group that was hoping for a huge turnout was a fizzle. So my question is - okay, whatdidyado first?
Overall, people in Oakland (where this protest was and where several colleges are)didn`t get all work into a frenzy. Actually we had several "protest" groups that when the camera crew were filming they held up banners that said "go Pens" or "go steelers". Yeah, there were a few college kids that were idiots and some windows that were trashed, but overall it was manageble and the protests fizzled.
Yeah, Pittsburgh liberal news sensationalize the event. However, it was determine that Pittsburgh was the most overprepared city for what we actually got. We had more trouble in Oakland when the Pens and Steelers won.
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Male 959
First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak out for me.
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Male 18
Just like the "Don`t tase me bro" episode, I would really like to see more video of what happened. Too many people spin things their way and disregard the truth, An opinion gets formed by people and then the truth doesn`t matter according them.
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Female 29
my freind lives right by that park, she said it was INSANE! She couldnt leave her house to go to class.
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Male 90
your a drating moron bac8434, siding with the cops and armed service men of this "united states", just wait a few years when we all get forced into camps and await certain death from our OWN people.
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Male 24
I don`t know exactly what happened here. You don`t really get to see much of the video coverage of the rally, and you are only getting one side of the story. I`ve seen a few of their other videos, and I don`t agree with the message of this group. But they should have every right to say it.

This is just the latest in sadly too many videos and stories I have come across of our first amendment right being quashed in this country.

In this day and age with "Free Speech Zones" and the fear of sedition do you think the Million Man March could happen? The anti-war protests of the 60`s and 70`s?

How about this, the protests in Tiananmen Square lasted for 7 weeks before the Chinese government cleared them out. Do you think in the current United States they would even last 7 days?

How long do you think, say 100,000 people, could gather and protest peacefully before they were kicked out?

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Male 7
Has anyone bothered to notice that the events he is narrating to us are on camera and being shown as he speaks, and that the tape does not match what he is saying? Yes, he was attacked once as he walked backwards while refusing to leave, but he was hit in the chest, not in the back. Way to sensationalize it, douchebag. Then he claims he was hit in the knee by a police baton, but I guarantee he would not have remained standing if that were true, yet he doesn`t even seem to flinch on tape. Then he claims that a cop nearly hit his friend after he tripped, but we see his friend fall on camera and the cops are a good 10-15 feet behind them still, not nearly close enough to hit him. Then he says the cops chased people in a "pitbull" mood, but we can clearly see they are just walking in a line to prevent people from passing, not chasing anyone. And how in the hell can you claim that they put tear gas in your face as you laid down, yet your tape conveniently stops there? I call BS.
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Male 4,680
I`ll need to hear the other side of the story before I make up my mind on this.
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Male 1,045
what`s an asembily?
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Female 30
"E.g. If they say lie on the floor, lie on the floor, don`t start saying I want to go home now or this is assualt!Lastly you can`t start something then as soon as your outnumbered expect to be allowed to go home!"

They did lie on the ground when they were told to, and as the guy said, they began using tear gas on people already on the ground. There`s no reason for that. Also, yes they can expect to go home. If all they are doing is peacefully assembling to talk about their government, then they have every right to do that. The Police/Guard shouldn`t have been called in the first place. They had committed no crime, so they should be allowed to leave. It`s completely against our rights to be held somewhere if a crime wasn`t committed. If they were charged with a crime, they would have been taken to the station and allowed to state their case. None of this happened. The Police/Guard held them there against their will when a crime was not committed.

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Female 1,395
"Do we really have freedom of speech?"
the existence of this video proves that we do.


No it doesnt. Freedom of speech is the freedom to express yourself without fear of being attacked, intimidated or molested by government forces.

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Female 511
Not having a permit does not warrant hundreds of frickin` RIOT POLICE!
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Male 174
Moral of the story: Don`t rally against world leaders without expecting a defence, TBH I only saw footage from what you chose to show! Why should I beleive your sob story just because you put a music track to it?
I didn`t really see any assault on there either! If you would have just done what they told you to then they wouldn`t of had to use force! E.g. If they say lie on the floor, lie on the floor, don`t start saying I want to go home now or this is assualt!
Lastly you can`t start something then as soon as your outnumbered expect to be allowed to go home!
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Male 139
"Do we really have freedom of speech?"

the existence of this video proves that we do.

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Male 35
More than likely they didn`t go through the proper legal channels to hold such an assembly, in which case the city is completely within its right to disperse the crowd.
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Female 678
"happened that caused the national guard to be called?"

It was at the G20 summit and I urge you to check out other videos on it.

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Male 196
Well, before we can decide anything, it`d be nice to see the whole video. This is only showing bits and pieces. Who knows what had been cut out? If there was actually police misconduct, there should be repercussions. However, seeing as how this is an anti-establishment 9/11 Truther group, I`m going to go ahead and assume there is more to the story.
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Male 721
well that sucks
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Male 4,593
Yes, but did they have mini-donuts at the park?
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Male 7,831
i wonder though, because they only show only a couple of minutes of footage, what happened that caused the national guard to be called? if they really did do nothing wrong, what the f*ck is up with pittsburg?
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Male 32
dont understand how stuff like that can happen...

if that hapened here the media would be all over it like hungry dogs that havent been feed in 3 years (exagerating of course :P)

i must say it shocked me a little since we always heard that USA is the land of freedom...

then again maybe something happened that isn`t told i dont know ...

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Male 2,159
Well, that was terrible. Not that I can criticise all that much because the same thing happened in London earlier this year. You have to ask why this poo happens though. Surely you should wait for something to actually happen before wacking and arresting people?
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Male 45
None are more hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free.
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Male 2
I bet these are the same protesters who want gun rights taken away.
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Male 1,646
Link: Peaceful Assembily is Attacked By Police [Rate Link] - Do we really have freedom of speech? You decide...
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