Gay Education

Submitted by: rgsupergrove 7 years ago in Funny

Commence the discussion!
There are 309 comments:
Male 37
How many stories have you heard about a dude/dudess breaking up a family by announcing that they are gay/lesbian. Just because your gay/lesbian doesn`t mean you don`t want kids.
If everyone were either gay or lesbian, then there would be no unwanted pregnancies. You`d still have a paternal/maternal instincts, it would just be that if you want kids, you close yours eyes, do the dirty with the opposite sex, and wha-la, 9 months later youd have a kid. A kid with 2 moms and 2 dads, and a poo load of christmas presents
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Female 158
I couldn`t care less about the bible! It only says being GAY is bad. not lesbian. So HA! Sorry guys, but you`re on your own.
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Female 1,283
I`ve noticed that all the sources except one had "American" in it...foreshadowing of America`s future!?

}-) <---sneaky fatherless child he is!

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Male 477
Angilion... about the Gospels.. There were supposedly 12 apostles, but none of them actually wrote a gospel. At least not one that made it into the Bible. Matthew, Mark, Luke and John were not written by apostles, but by 3rd party authors who only heard stories from other apostles. Mark and Luke aren`t even the names of ANY of the apostles listed in any gospels (which can`t even agree on the apostles` names in the first place). All the earliest copies we have of any of the gospels were written at least 7 - 100 years after the Apostles they are attributed to died.
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Male 1,162
I wasn`t seriously arguing at all, actually. Just making a gay joke. Get it? Aaaah, good fun.
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Male 12,365
Whoever was reading my post to you didn`t get to the end. I`ll repeat it for them to read to you:

[quote]It amuses me how many people are arguing that homosexuality is so appealing to everyone that if it wasn`t suppressed then the number of people having heterosex would be too small to stop humanity fading away through lack of children.[/quote]

Now...are you seriously arguing that everyone would be gay if they weren`t coerced into being straight?

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Male 1,162
You appear to be making the "homosexuality will cause humanity to die out!" argument, which is the same rubbish it always was.

Its not rubbish. if everyone in the world was gay then there would be nothing there to populate more penises for you to su-... uh nvmnd.

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Male 2
Actually, evolution isn`t the process of making things "better", it`s a random selection of genes partially based on the environment. Things evolve one way or another, but they don`t necessarily get "better".

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Male 1,918
If you believe in Darwinism, then you should disagree with homosexuality, cause that will go against the fact that in evolution, we evolve to become better, and try to find any mention to continue our population. Contradictions from anyone?

So you`re stating that being gay means you are a worse person? That evolution worked backwards?

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Male 26
I was intrigued... and then laughed to HELL and back at the last fifteen seconds. I go to Furman University in Greenville, SC, and seeing that about Bob Jones made me laugh so. Hard. Hahahahahaha
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Male 12,365
[quote]and i agree with you, trello. i believed that the bible had things missing/mistranslated way before the da vinci code came out. it is several books. people may very well have left some books out[/quote]

It`s dozens of books and we know as an absolute certainty that people left many books out *because the people who did so wrote down that they did*. First Council of Nicea, 325. The OT is much older and there aren`t any records of its creation, so we can`t be sure about that.

Then there`s simple deduction. For example: There are 4 gospels in the NT. There were 13 apostles, so the other 9 gospels must have been left out.

(13, because I`m counting Mary).

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Male 12,365
[quote]If you believe in Darwinism, then you should disagree with homosexuality, cause that will go against the fact that in evolution, we evolve to become better, and try to find any mention to continue our population. Contradictions from anyone?[/quote]

My main one is the word `Darwinism`, which you wrongly use as (a) a faith and (b) synonymous with `evolution`.

You appear to be making the "homosexuality will cause humanity to die out!" argument, which is the same rubbish it always was.

It amuses me how many people are arguing that homosexuality is so appealing to everyone that if it wasn`t suppressed then the number of people having heterosex would be too small to stop humanity fading away through lack of children.

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Male 25,416
I like boobs to much to be gay!
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Female 1,798
Pink---books were left out, e.g. the book of Sophia.

of course, part of that was because it was extremely convoluted and hard for the average person to understand--but it was also because the leaders of that time didn`t want an entire book dedicated to a strong, female figure.

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Female 3,828
this forum is nuts. but i expected it.

i think being gay is something your born with, the only ones who really choose, in the sense, are bisexuals.

and i agree with you, trello. i believed that the bible had things missing/mistranslated way before the da vinci code came out. it is several books. people may very well have left some books out

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Female 1,798
JaLacaob:

it`s interesting, I`ve heard that about lesbian/gay male brains before, that they`re "hardwired" similar to the opposite sex...did you know that lesbians, when they`re ovulating, can pick out the faces of women in a crowd more easily than they can men? this is opposite of straight women, obviously, who are better able to pick out the faces of men when they`re ovulating.

I think we have made a point that homosexuality is definitely not a "choice" :)

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Male 1,647
Point made, PsychGeek. Didn`t mean to imply Darwin coined it. :P
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Female 1,798
actually akabane, I disagree with you completely.

Darwin NEVER stated that evolution has a direction. We do not become better or worse, we only adapt to our surroundings. To "evolve" does NOT mean to get better, it simply means to "change".

That said, it should be noted that Darwin also did NOT coin the term "survival of the fittest", that was Herbert Spencer.

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Male 1,647

akabane: Darwinism begins to lose effect when humans make a different `survival of the fittest`. Many people are now obese, not because they`re better fit to survive in the natural world, but because they are now formed by society`s effect on `natural evolution`.

Perhaps homosexuality is partially also a result of extreme overpopulation. There`s breeds of frogs that will not just be gay, but CHANGE SEX to accommodate underpopulation of one of the sexes. Homosexuality is not a very far stretch in that light.

There are MRI scans of brain activity that show a gay female`s brain is stimulated sexually by the same thing that a straight male`s brain is.

Really, what`s the big deal? These people don`t hurt anyone.

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Male 1,093
If you believe in Darwinism, then you should disagree with homosexuality, cause that will go against the fact that in evolution, we evolve to become better, and try to find any mention to continue our population. Contradictions from anyone?
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Male 12,365
[quote]It is Jesus confirming that God made man & woman - and then going ON to say that for this reason a MAN shall leave his father and mother and join with his WIFE (not "significant other").[/quote]

That`s the flimsiest scriptural reason for opposing homosexuality that I`ve ever heard.

*If* (and it`s a big if) the translation is correct:

It`s sex-specific. So, once again, it`s only men who are restricted.

It states that marriage makes two people "become one flesh". Which is obviously not true. So the verses cannot be taken literally.

It implies that no man can leave home until he gets married.

I think it`s also worth pointing out that the bible allows for people to be forced into marriage against their will - do you think that doing so should be legal?

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Male 1,685
"i am god and you can not prove that i am not"

_ HEY! me TOO!

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Male 207
antibodies of a woman make people gay...

right.

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Male 339
And, seriously -- "erroneous" "fallacy" -- who talks that way?! Oh yeah, a kid trying to sound smart when he doesn`t really know what he`s talking about.

Free life lesson for you,- big words don`t make you sound smarter.

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Male 339
@yanging

*sigh* - read it again. It is Jesus confirming that God made man & woman - and then going ON to say that for this reason a MAN shall leave his father and mother and join with his WIFE (not "significant other").

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Female 1,264
LOL Freud! He was such aa funny man.
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Male 480
i am god and you can not prove that i am not
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Male 12,365
[quote]If one true God existed, his existence would have been revealed to all cultures, not appear suddenly in one and then have to "spread" through violence and evangelism.[/quote]

That`s not necessarily true.

There might have been a one true god who has since died or moved on to somewhere else.

There might be a one true god who created humans and has since become bored with them, leaving them to do whatever.

There might be a one true god who is for some reason constrained from being involved in the lives of humans and so has to leave them to do whatever, including mass-scale violence, hatred and oppression in the name of that god.

There might be a one true god who enjoys mass-scale violence, hatred and oppression amongst their creations, like some rather unpleasant child playing a game.

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Male 12,365
[quote]Does anyone here believe in God? Can anyone prove he doesn`t exist?[/quote]

Can you prove that the Flying Spaghetti Monster doesn`t exist? Does that mean you have to believe that he does exist?

[quote]I suppose the burden of proof rests on believers, but still I`m curious of the logic behind it. Arguments for God are much stronger, or at least seem so.[/quote]

I`m at a loss here. You talk about logic and then you say that the arguments for a specific god are stronger. That doesn`t make any sense. Belief in any god(s) at all is purely a matter of faith and belief in one particular one only even more so. What does logic have to do with it?

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Male 12,365
thor82:

The NT was a *selection* of *some* Christian stories made *by some men* in Nicea in 325. The selection was made at least in part for political reasons related to the Christian takeover of the Roman empire.

The existence of many copies of it therefore can`t be used as evidence of the idea that the bible is the literal and inerrant word of god.

Also, there are nowhere near 24,000 copies of it *dating from that time*, which further undermines your argument.

Also, it was written in ancient Greek.

Unless you read ancient Greek fluently and you have access to ~1700 year old copies of it, you don`t even know for sure that what you read is an accurate account of the selection of some Christian stories by some men, let alone that it`s the word of god.

The NT is *at best* a politically motivated selection of some part of some Christian stories which might or might not be an accurate written version of the original (mostly spoken) stories from 300 years earlier.

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Female 385
[quote]Does anyone here believe in God? Can anyone prove he doesn`t exist? I suppose the burden of proof rests on believers, but still I`m curious of the logic behind it. Arguments for God are much stronger, or at least seem so. I don`t see how homosexuality is wrong unless God exists and says so... even though to me it`s still gross... just sayin`.[/quote]

You cannot prove a negative. The most you can do is say that no evidence has been found for the existence of a God. Which, there has been none. Life did not spontaneously poof into existence. The universe is old and complex and evolving. If one true God existed, his existence would have been revealed to all cultures, not appear suddenly in one and then have to "spread" through violence and evangelism.

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Male 117
I agree with your position as far as I can tell, DarthJay, but he makes a good point. Jesus wasn`t talking about that if you look to the context of the passage. He was speaking about divorce.
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Male 172
@Darthjay:

I created an account just to reply to your erroneous post. It is illogical to quote a new testament quote that refers to an old testament passage and say "Here, look and see that it is written also in the new testament". I`m just pointing out the fallacy of your argument.

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Male 117
Does anyone here believe in God? Can anyone prove he doesn`t exist? I suppose the burden of proof rests on believers, but still I`m curious of the logic behind it. Arguments for God are much stronger, or at least seem so. I don`t see how homosexuality is wrong unless God exists and says so... even though to me it`s still gross... just sayin`.
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Male 12,365
thor82: I have worked on Saturdays. Do you think I should be killed?

If not, why not? It says I should be in your bible, which you claim is divine and inerrant.

Also, would you like several dozen more examples of grossly disproportionate punishment, e.g. beating your son to death for being disobedient?

Then there`s the utter impossibility of some of the stories, the most famous being that the the Ark.

Then there`s a famous issue of timing, which you could work around by assuming that your god faked all the evidence to mess with people`s heads for a laugh.

I have sympathy for Christians who actually read their own bible. If they think it`s inerrant, they have to pretend to be an insane and savage psychopath. If they think it`s partly metaphorical, they have a pick `n` mix religion that anyone can interpret into anything.

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Male 93
Ok...is it possible that "god" has a reason for homosexuals? Could it be a divine solution to ease over-population? I`m agnostic leaning towards athiest. But if you believe in god, isn`t this a possible explanation?
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Male 131
thor82 - Ermm...sorry to break the news to you, but the Bible IS flawed. For a start, it is not one book, written by one perosn (or God), but 66 different books, written at different times by different people, for different reasons, then passed down like a huge generational Chinese Whispers, and then translated (sometimes inaccurately) into different languages, then steadfastly stuck, mistakes & all.

Take the "Camel through the Eye of a needle". The hebrew for rope is `Caa-mel`, but nobody has bothered to correct it for centuries.

I appreciate the Bible as a holy book, but I don`t revere it any more than the Koran, Bagavad Gida etc, and I certainly don`t believe in picking & choosing bits of it, expecially as the entire Bible is so contradictory!

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Male 339
Now from a scientific point of view...three main studies are cited by ‘gay rights’ activists in support of their argument:

1) Hamer`s X-chromosome research
2) LeVay`s study of the hypothalamus
3) Bailey and Pillard`s study of identical twins who were homosexuals.

In all three cases, the researchers had a vested interest in obtaining a certain outcome because they were homosexuals themselves. More importantly, their studies did not stand up to scientific scrutiny by other researchers. There is no reliable evidence to date that homosexual behaviour is determined by a person’s genes.

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Male 339
Just to be clear on the whole "Old Testament Only" thing, here`s a verse from Matthew 19:4

And He answered and said to them, "Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning made them male and female," and said, "For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh."

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Male 4,807
What does the trip back to Kentuky have anything to do with it (4:44)
Now I`m really confussed
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Male 144
For what this video showed, the scientific evidence does support this theory. I am compelled to agree with it.
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Male 235
This video is a load of horse crap. I hope they`re not showing this in schools...
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Male 56
Angillion "It`s possible to be a Christian and believe that the Christian bible is often wrong because it`s not divine, i.e. that people messed it up very badly."

Thats contradictory to what is in the Bible. Homer`s Iliad has over 643 copies of the manuscript out there, and I`m guessing you believe that this accurately represents what Homer wrote. The New Testament has over 24,000 manuscripts that have been preserved over time. As a Christian, I don`t believe it is possible to pick and choose a verse to fit the context of your argument then ignore other verses, but I also believe that the Bible is divine, and that in order to believe the Bible you have to believe in it as a whole. People can believe what they want, but I don`t think as a Christian that it is plausible to believe the Bible is erred.

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Male 12,365
"Anyway why does religion come up with gay rights and such? I believe that for marriage to truly be proper it should be taken out of the hands of religion and given to government. free of discrimination."

I think marriage should be taken out of the hands of religion *and* out of the hands of government, that it should go back to being a [quote]weddian[/quote], which is an entirely personal thing. That is where the word `wedding` comes from.

I regard these three things as being seperate:

A marriage
State recognition of a marriage
Religious blessing of a marriage.

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Male 12,365
[quote]aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand once again, you can`t pick and choose lines from the Bible to fit your argument.[/quote]

But that`s exactly what you do, PsychGeek, when it`s convenient for your argument. For example:

[quote]all of your points come from the Old Testament, which was written thousands of years ago when the peoples of that time believed in a "cruel and unjust" God. try reading the New Testament (except for Revelation), and you`ll see he`s not nearly as cruel.[/quote]

I could post lines from the NT (but not including Revelations, as you choose to not pick that part) that you would disagree with - you would choose to not pick those lines.

But you later say that you skip the bible entirely and just make up your own religion anyway - you`re taking the "pick and choose" thing to the greatest possible extreme.

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Male 12,365
[quote]who are you to tell me how to be a Christian? I believe what I want, and read what I want. I choose not to read/believe Revelation because I don`t want to.

stop attacking me as a person for what I believe, you`re once again making yourself look like an idiot.[/quote]

So..you`ve got a religion that you make up as you please to suit yourself and a god that never tells you anything anyway.

You`re saying that makes other people look like idiots.

I disagree.

The specific argument being made, which certainly isn`t idiotic, is whether or not a person who *makes up their own religion*, as you do, and *who explicitly rejects established tenets of a religion*, as you do, can plausibly refer to themself as a follower of that religion.

That is not an idiotic argument.

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Male 12,365
[quote]all of your points come from the Old Testament, which was written thousands of years ago when the peoples of that time believed in a "cruel and unjust" God. try reading the New Testament (except for Revelation), and you`ll see he`s not nearly as cruel.[/quote]

The change is so dramatic that it has been (and continues to be) argued that Judaism and Christianity are actually worshipping two different gods.

Or maybe one god who had an utterly life-changing revelation about 2000 years ago, one that completely changed their personality.

But bear in mind that your own new testament has Jesus saying that all the old (Psycho God) rules must be obeyed utterly and until the end of the world.

Being a Christian requires some carefully selective thinking.

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Male 12,365
[quote]Baal, Doc Brown is not omniscient/omnipotent. Your argument is sh*t.[/quote]

It was an excellent use of popular culture in an analogy to explain an argument. You failed to understand it. You also appeared to have ignored the last sentence, which summarised the argument without analogy.

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Male 12,365
"do I think myself to be a more moral being than the God of the Bible? Then yeah"

"You`re more moral than someone who can`t do wrong? Holy damn."

Almost every person is more moral than the god of the Christian bible, who is a psychotic mass-murdering megalomaniac with a taste for torture and a raving demand for absolute obedience in everything from everyone.

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Male 12,365
"they really should cite their sources if theyre going to say that homosexuality occurs in nature."

There are many...but there`s a strong tendency to use a mutable definition of "homosexuality".

When applied to humans, "homosexuality" is interpreted as meaning "always choosing a partner of the same sex, regardles of circumstances" and usually strongly implies long-term pair-bonding.

When applied to animals, "homosexuality" is interpreted as meaning "having homosexual sex at all". That includes, for example, animals that will hump anything at all, like dogs. Those animals aren`t homosexual. It`s just changing the definition on the fly to fake evidence. Which actually undermines the argument, because the fakery can be exposed and the whole argument is tainted by it.

It`s irrelevant anyway - nature is not an indication of right or wrong. For example - murdering someone to steal their resources is perfectly natural.

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Male 12,365
Continued...

Then there`s the problem of ancient Hebrew not being the same as modern Hebrew and there`s the problem of Hebrew being written without any vowels back then...so there`s a lot of scope for wondering what any of the OT actually meant to the people who wrote it, even if you believe it`s a true reflection of your god`s orders.

Then there`s the issue of what Christians should do about the OT, which is Jewish and predates Christianity. Obey it all to the letter? Ignore it all? Just pick out some bits you like and interpret them however you please? That`s what usually happens, but that doesn`t mean it`s theologically correct.

Then there`s the issue of unknown words being used in the NT. `arsenokoitai`, for example, is usually translated as `homosexual`. Why? Because many centuries later, the people who controlled the translation wanted it to be translated that way. No-one really knows what that word means.

Etc.

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Male 1,646
"well i do know this one chick that goes back and forth"
`shut up"
lol
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Male 12,365
"ok bottom line. IF you want to be a christian then you have to believe what the bible says, which is that homosexuality is wrong."

Your argument looks solid, but it`s wrong for two reasons:

i) It`s possible to be a Christian and believe that the Christian bible is often wrong because it`s not divine, i.e. that people messed it up very badly.

ii) It`s possible to conclude that the Christian bible is right and does *not* say that homosexuality is wrong.

It does say so if you look at translations, but those translations are wrong. Often very wrong. Nearly all the references are actually male-specific, so lesbians are pretty much fine. Other references are about very specific contexts, usually related to Judaism and Christianity trying to overthrow earlier religions for political reasons - the verses are actually about demonising other religions. No-one really knows what the infamous Leviticus verses mean anyway.

Bah, post size limit.

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Male 12,365
"the answer, *in my mind,* is yes. God ULTIMATElY knows what will become of each and every one of us; he knows where we`ll end up. However, he does not know what will happen to us day to day."

That is denying the omniscience of your god, which is a pretty major heresy for a theist of the Abrahamic god.

As for the whole idea that some of the <insert holy book here> is literal and some is metaphorical, I`ve only ever seen that used to allow a theist to prop up their own ideas of what they`d like the book to say. I even know one Christian who is certain that adultery is actually not wrong at all, and that takes some seriously "metaphorical" interpretation.

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Male 153
rofl @ Mikalang

lazy phail?

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Male 4,290
Mikallang: Here`s a list, with all the sources at the bottom. That took me all of 1 minute to find with Google.
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Male 610
they really should cite their sources if theyre going to say that homosexuality occurs in nature. they flying spaghetti monster is real. see how that works.
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Male 6
That`s interesting though people brought up in a culture with a specific religion are more likely to be a member or at least assosciate more strongly with that religion than any others, perhaps our ideas about sexuality are conditioned in us in the same sort of way?
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Male 2,220
Whereas - religion is a question of choice....

You can question whether you`re chosen religion is the correct one.

Or not.

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Male 2,220
A choice? Like you can just choose to change your sexuality? Wouldn`t you have to be pretty near asexual to start with to pull such a stunt?

Maybe *that* is the rub, maybe peeps are not so easily categorised, maybe "gay" and "straight" are the opposing (unreachable) ends of a spectrum, where each person registers is different and likely a product of nature and nurture. Maybe if we all lived long enough, the needle might even start to drift.

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Male 674
time to get another drink and some more popcorn, I wish all things in life were as entertaining as watching religious debates from the stands.
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Male 674
Crakr, if being gay is genetic, and occurs all throughout nature, yes gene therapy might be able to eliminate homosexual tendencies, but the same argument could be said that Gene therapy could cure people of being inferior races, "Cure the black away" so to speak.

If it is a choice, which I can assure you that no sane person would choose to be gay, the general oppression and discrimination towards us isn`t worth it if it were a choice. I myself have had the "pleasure" of being forced to look down the barrel of a loaded gun just for being gay.

But even if it were a choice, people are grated full legal protection from discrimination due to their religion, which is definitely a choice.

As for bisexuality, I can`t give scientifically proven facts to support me, so i wont even go there.

As for this religion debate thing going on, keep on fighting, the rest of the world is watching and laughing at the absurdity of your pointless debates. Speaking of which, time t

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Male 17,511
Here is the rub. If the cause is genetic then gene therapy, genetic manipulation and/or selective breeding would eventually eliminate homosexuality.

If it`s a lifestyle choice, Then it`s not like skin color or ethnicity that you are "born with" and thus doesn`t qualify for legal protections like they do.

Either way, If you start talking about "curing" it, Homosexuals get pissed off. If you approach them from the genetic angle about it, they`ll argue that it`s a choice and visa versa.

Personally, I`ve seen environmental factors play a large role in the makeup of one`s sexual orientation. Thus leading me to believe it is, For the most part, A lifestyle choice. Otherwise how else could there be Bi-sexual people ?

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Male 4,546
Additionally, and let me make this point quite clear:

WTF!!!! BURNING COALS!!! MY SKIN!!! AAAAARGH! AAAAAARGH! AAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH!!! HELP ME!!! HEL IT BURNSanjsrkqnwjfnskajdfks!!!!

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Male 4,546
Basically:

Poop says:
Faith is believing in something without a good reason. Faith is irrational.

Dictionary says:
Faith is believing in something without proof. <Implied: Faith CAN BE, but ISN`T NECESSARILY irrational>.


In other words, you are using Blind Faith, (and as you "like to use numbers"), a specific subset of the set of "faith", and applying its qualities to the entire set of "faith".

This helps your point, but you win 1 grammar point, which doesn`t really bump your score much. I believe grammar and spelling only counts in a tie breaker.

FYI, I get 2 points for catching it.

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Male 4,546
Faith is not defined as Poop has chosen to define it.

Whilst it would be convenient for Poop, for his definition to be correct, it is, alas, not.

8 definitions of faith (out of order).

1) Belief in God. (Whether rational or not)
2) Confidence or trust. (As above)
3) Belief in anything. (As above)
4) A system of belief. (N/A)
5) Obligation of loyalty. (N/A)
6) Fidelity to one`s promise. (N/A)
7) Christian Theology. (N/A)

Finally, the one you were most likely thinking of, and the only one you accepted as possible because it fit your worldview:

8) Belief without proof.

The part however, that you`re ignoring, even when you use the correct definition, is that belief without proof, is not the same, as belief without evidence.

As such, it is perfectly viable, for someone to claim you have faith in a myriad of things that will upset you greatly. And they`ll be right.
"No, it`s science! It isn`t faith!!!!!!11 RAWR!"

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Male 36
"phasoo
Male, 18-29, Western US
217 Posts Monday, November 02, 2009 1:42:51 AM
may hot coals descend upon the next one who continues or starts an argument."

pfft yeah who would do that... anyway im off to play my xbox 360 which is way better than any PS3 console >_>

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Male 285
may hot coals descend upon the next one who continues or starts an argument.
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Male 452
Pooptart19, you`re a douche and trp712, don`t encourage him... I am not going into my religious beleifs, `cos, really, who`s business is it?
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Male 2,238
Nah Reor, Poop ain`t no troll. He`s a good dude, with diametric opinions to myself, but a troll he is not.
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Male 2,238
Reor, it`s not as if it really matter who has been here longer. I persoanlly lie Vorp; he tries not to tell us how to do our jobs, one of his most redeeming qualities.

Religion came up after someone mentioned, (7 pages or so back) how Christians tended to discriminate.

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Male 36
ok this is the last thing i say

trp712 mods yes are people 2 and have opinions. My mistake but below I would say you got trolled.

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Male 36
vorp, its not a case of knowing more than the mods. Ive been round here longer than you have (you probly came with tha big wave of peeps for the pics, you know after IAB got generic)

Anyway why does religion come up with gay rights and such? I believe that for marriage to truly be proper it should be taken out of the hands of religion and given to government. free of discrimination.

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Male 2,238
Double Post, my bad.

[quote]Moderators are here to stop these arguments not participate.
[/quote]

So, Reor, what would you rather have? A group of mods who say nothing, then come out, banhammers swinging? Or what we have at IAB, a group of people who just want to make life better and more interesting for everyone else?

Your choice, dude.

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Male 2,238
[quote]trp712 = fail mod[/quote]

Heh, I can see how you could have that viewpoint, reor.

But it`s just my opinion. I`m not getting worked up or anything, just debating with a fellow user.

Everyone here is entitled to express their opinions, just as you are right there.

And thanks Vorp. :-)

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Male 1,837
i still think that people do it as a choice.

whatever.

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Male 1,452
29 posts and you already think you know more than the mods, silly silly boy
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Male 36
trp712 = fail mod

Moderators are here to stop these arguments not participate.

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Male 285
Whoa, what the hell kind of argument did I stumble upon? Not important, I just had 3 tacos, 2 muffins and can of mountain dew. Life is good.
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Male 2,440
[quote]Okay then, you`re no troll, and i`m no pussy.

This will go on until one of us wins, which is pretty much the way of the world.

Therefore, this one is Even Stevens, IMO.

Good game, mate.[/quote]

Okey doke lol

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Male 2,238
Okay then, you`re no troll, and i`m no pussy.

This will go on until one of us wins, which is pretty much the way of the world.

Therefore, this one is Even Stevens, IMO.

Good game, mate.

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Male 2,440
[quote]Not a p*ssy, just not in the mood to get mocked by some troll for something I believe in, once he`s already been through one arguement, unsuccessfully.[/quote]

I`m not a troll and you ARE a p*ssy. Just because you can`t comprehend that free will is incompatible with an omniscient/omnipotent god doesn`t mean I failed an argument.

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Male 2,238
[quote]If you`re not taking Christ`s divinity literally, you are not a Christian.[/quote]

I`m sorry, I should have said I don`t take MOST of the bible literally. Read down about 3 pages or so.

[quote]P*ssy.
[/quote]

Not a p*ssy, just not in the mood to get mocked by some troll for something I believe in, once he`s already been through one arguement, unsuccessfully.

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Male 2,440
[quote]and Poop, I`ll sum up the whole "what makes you Christian" thing in 3 words:

I. Have. Faith.[/quote]

Faith is believing in something without a good reason. Faith is irrational.

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Male 2,440
[quote]Poop, as Catholics, we don`t take the bible literally. Catholics are a kind of Christian.[/quote]

Christians: those who believe Jesus Christ to be the Son of God (the Messiah).

If you`re not taking Christ`s divinity literally, you are not a Christian.

[quote]And i`m not about to explain random beliefs so you can pick them apart.[/quote]

P*ssy.

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Male 2,238
Have a good one Psych. Sweet dreams and all that. Hope to see you round sometime. Pop into chat again sometime, even.
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Female 1,798
and Poop, I`ll sum up the whole "what makes you Christian" thing in 3 words:

I. Have. Faith.

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Male 2,238
[quote]Poop, I can actually say this, as that`s not opinion.
You`re wrong. Catholics, a branch of Christianity, do NOT take the bible literally.
[/quote]

Poop, as Catholics, we don`t take the bible literally. Catholics are a kind of Christian.

And i`m not about to explain random beliefs so you can pick them apart.

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Female 1,798
OH MY GOD. we`re not giving you the EXACT ANSWER you`re looking for, so you insist on calling us wrong. I told you what makes me a Christian, yet somehow you can`t understand it. I think your ego has gotten in the way of your ability to comprehend what I`m saying.

I for one am going to bed, because this argument is going circles.

g`night all, and thanks trp, for helping to make this an awesome discussion :)

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Male 2,440
[quote]I am a Christian because I believe in God, and I believe in Christ. that`s enough for me.[/quote]

How do you know that Christ wasn`t just made up? Written by Man?

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Male 2,440
Answer the goddamn question, the both of you. How do you consider yourselves to be Christian?
Or better yet, tell me what you believe and why.
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Female 1,798
I am a Christian because I believe in God, and I believe in Christ. that`s enough for me.

You can`t tell me I`m wrong, because frankly to even try would make you look like a nitwit. You have no right to tell us how to act in our faith.

Get over yourself.

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Male 2,238
See below post.

I consider myself a catholic. You`ve learnt something, dude.

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Female 1,798
and who are you, Almight PoopTart, to tell us how to be Christian?

let us have our faith the way we want it. you`ll never win this because you`re fighting a fight that has no right answer (FOR THE MILLIONTH TIME).

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Male 2,238
Poop, I can actually say this, as that`s not opinion.

You`re wrong. Catholics, a branch of Christianity, do NOT take the bible literally.

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Male 2,440
PsychGeek, how exactly do you consider yourself to be a Christian? Same for you, trp.
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Male 2,440
This "I`m a Christian but I don`t take the Bible literally at all" bullsh*t is insane.
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Female 1,798
lol I agree trp, Poop is just talking in circles at this point :) he seems to think that the way to win an argument is to put others down.

that has a name, sir, and it`s called bullying.

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Female 1,798
LOL oh Poop, there you go making me laugh again :)

my ideas about my God spring from MY IDEAS, i don`t use the Bible, I frankly haven`t read it in ages because I choose a more personal relationship with him---I don`t need a book to tell me who God is. but for those who choose it, whatever floats your boat, i completely respect it :)

YOUR VERSES WERE WRITTEN BY MAN, that`s not an opinion that is a fact. when you say "your god is a pr*ck", THAT IS AN OPINION, not fact.

i`m not the one who needs to grow up, love.

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Male 2,238
Poop. I swear to God, i`ve said this about five times.

Bible. Not. Literal.

Inspired by God, written by man.

I`m starting to think you`re being stupid on purpose. Just my opinion, of course.

Thanks Psych, btw. :-)

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Male 2,440
[quote]Okay Poop. Listening, brah?

The bible? Not literal.

Plus, yes, he IS the source of evil, as he made everything and all. Sin comes from choosing away from God. Sin comes choice, that means.

So, wait, what does this tell us? Oh yeah, God created free will.[/quote]

First off, "sin" is a bullsh*t idea from your theology. As I stated before, God`s will is God`s will. Eve didn`t CHOSE to take the apple, it was God`s will for her to do it.

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Male 2,440
PsychGeek, you consider yourself a Christian, yes? And your ideas and knowledge of God springs primarily from your holy text, yes? Grow up and stop this "but that was written by Man" bullsh*t when confronted with versus that show your god to be a pr*ck.
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Female 1,798
LOL trp :) way to put it, man :)
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Female 385
I guess that`s kind of my point. The Bible cannot be trusted as a source of God`s will. It`s one thing to take the broad strokes, such as trying to be a decent person, and apply them to your life. But too many people get caught up in the fine details, many of which were meant for bronze-age goat herders and have no place in the modern world. I agree though, the Bible should not be taken literally. To do so is to miss the entire point of the Bible. But good luck convincing the kind of people who make all Christians look bad of that.
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Male 2,238
Okay Poop. Listening, brah?

The bible? Not literal.

Plus, yes, he IS the source of evil, as he made everything and all. Sin comes from choosing away from God. Sin comes choice, that means.

So, wait, what does this tell us? Oh yeah, God created free will.

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Male 2,440
[quote]and how do you know God himself said that? maybe it was put in there by Man.[/quote]

How do you know that the Bible wasn`t written by Man and for Man, Psych? They could`ve all been high and made it all up.

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Female 1,798
"God as the source of evil:

Jeremiah 11:11, 16:10-11, 19:3, 23:12, 26:3,13,19, 32:42, 35:17, 36:3, 36:31, 40:2, 42:10, 44:2, 45:5, 49:37, 51:64"


aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand once again, you can`t pick and choose lines from the Bible to fit your argument. How do you know God said those things, Poop? you don`t. what you`re pointing to was written by MAN.

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Female 1,798
i agree with trp, yae, come back and talk after you`ve read the arguments we`ve made. we covered your topic a while ago.
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Male 2,440
God as the source of evil:

Jeremiah 11:11, 16:10-11, 19:3, 23:12, 26:3,13,19, 32:42, 35:17, 36:3, 36:31, 40:2, 42:10, 44:2, 45:5, 49:37, 51:64

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Male 2,238
Lulz Yae, they`re good things. You didn`t back yourself up at all.
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Female 1,798
Isaiah 45:7 - "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things."

and how do you know God himself said that? maybe it was put in there by Man.

don`t take it literally, love, for the MILLIONTH time now. jeez will you ever read what we say?

btw, you can`t pick and choose quotes from the Bible to fit your argument, because for every one you choose, there are others to contradict it. The Bible is NOT MEANT TO BE TAKEN LITERALLY, LINE BY LINE.

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Male 2,238
Sh*t DOES happen. Due to free will, mostly.

Okay, thanks for clearing that one up, Psych.

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Female 1,798
"Psych, when a hurricane destroys your house, it`s not because God is trying to send you a message. Its just means a hurricane destroyed your house. Face it, sh*t just happens."

I never said that it doesn`t. I know stuff happens, and I know God does not pinpoint certain houses to destroy. I frankly don`t think he controls the weather.....

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Female 385
Isaiah 45:7 - "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things."
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Female 1,798
yes trp, I`m also Catholic and don`t take it literally :)
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Male 2,440
[quote]actually, God and I talk all the time. Sometimes I yell at him because I don`t agree with the choices he`s made in who enters and leaves my life (i`m referring to someone who passed away a year ago), but He forgives me in the end.

like I said, I have a personal relationship with my God, and even though he never directly tells me the answers to my questions, I eventually figure them out.[/quote]

Psych, when a hurricane destroys your house, it`s not because God is trying to send you a message. Its just means a hurricane destroyed your house. Face it, sh*t just happens.

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Male 4,546
Disclaimer:
Don`t go all Dirk Gently and the Holistic Detective Agency and start talking about the interconnectedness of all things.

Yes, I suppose the Price of Asparagus does therefore have something to do with it, but no more so than the itch at the back of my knee is "somehow related" to a New Zealand wasp named Bernie.

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Male 2,238
Yae, Read the rest of this forum, then come back. These points have been covered.

Bible is inspied by God, written by man. THEREFORE, there are inaccuracies.

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Female 1,798
"At one point in the Bible, God is even directly quoted as saying he is the source of all evil in the world."

really? where does it say that? back it up with proof, love.

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Female 1,798
Yaezakura:

don`t forget that the Bible was written by man, and has been re-written numerous times, with books changed, left out, and added.

once AGAIN, the Bible is (IMHO), not meant to be taken literally.

jeez i feel like we`ve had this discussion..hmm, oh yeah, BECAUSE WE HAVE.

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Female 1,798
"PsychGeek, why leave out Revelation? If you`re not to take even the slightest story in the Bible literally, then how are you a Christian at all?"

who are you to tell me how to be a Christian? I believe what I want, and read what I want. I choose not to read/believe Revelation because I don`t want to.

stop attacking me as a person for what I believe, you`re once again making yourself look like an idiot.

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Female 385
Even if you don`t take the stories literally, it still paints a picture of a God that is evil by any reasonable definition, as only an evil God could ever perform these actions. At one point in the Bible, God is even directly quoted as saying he is the source of all evil in the world.

As for the New Testament, it changes nothing. It is still the same God. And is horribly inconsistent. Jesus says to love everyone, other books say to hate this and that, and everyone tends to forget what Jesus said to support their bigoted beliefs that come from elsewhere in the book. If a God exists, it certainly doesn`t take after the one described in the Bible, otherwise it would be ripped to shreds by all the contradictions in its existence.

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Male 2,238
Jesus Poop, have you not been listening?

I`m Catholic, I don`t take it literally. I assume Psych is the same.

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Female 1,798
lol Baal ;)

and THANK YOU, trp, for saying what i have been all along :) maybe now he`ll actually understand it now that two of us are saying it :)

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Male 2,440
[quote]Yaezakura:

all of your points come from the Old Testament, which was written thousands of years ago when the peoples of that time believed in a "cruel and unjust" God. try reading the New Testament (except for Revelation), and you`ll see he`s not nearly as cruel.

don`t take the stories so literally, for the THOUSANDTH TIME. jeez will you read all the comments before you make a point that has already been discussed?[/quote]

PsychGeek, why leave out Revelation? If you`re not to take even the slightest story in the Bible literally, then how are you a Christian at all?

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Male 2,238
Poop, she`s saying that it`s your opinion, and our opinion.
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Male 4,546
"God has everything to do with everything"

That doesn`t make:
How God sees our actions.
related to
How we chose our actions.

Anymore than God`s favourite word is related to the price of Asparagus.

Yelling "God has everything to do with everything" does not mean that Everything related to God has everything to do with everything.

Perhaps a few more swear words will convince someone?

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Female 1,798
actually, God and I talk all the time. Sometimes I yell at him because I don`t agree with the choices he`s made in who enters and leaves my life (i`m referring to someone who passed away a year ago), but He forgives me in the end.

like I said, I have a personal relationship with my God, and even though he never directly tells me the answers to my questions, I eventually figure them out.

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Male 2,440
[quote]"how do you know, poop? have you talked to God recently? because it seems to me the ONLY way any of your arguments can be proven valid is if you can prove that you`ve recently talked to him, and it is through these conversations that you have come to your conclusions.

you haven`t talked to him?? really?? well then, i guess what you`re saying is really just a matter of opinion and assumptions then, isn`t it?"[/quote]

PsychGeek, you`re the one who claims to have a personal relationship with your God. How about sitting HIS @ss down for an interview, hmmm?

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Female 1,798
woo Baal for the win!! :)
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Female 1,798
Yaezakura:

all of your points come from the Old Testament, which was written thousands of years ago when the peoples of that time believed in a "cruel and unjust" God. try reading the New Testament (except for Revelation), and you`ll see he`s not nearly as cruel.

don`t take the stories so literally, for the THOUSANDTH TIME. jeez will you read all the comments before you make a point that has already been discussed?

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Male 4,546
Lets analyze your "philosophical argument"

P1) Problem: Worded as "has done" negates your argument, and is a more accurate description.
P2) True.
P3) I disagree with this priori, as it makes an assumption I don`t feel is relevant. ( I.e. P7)God obeys time like people do).
P4) True.
P5) Assumes P7.
P6) True.

Conclusion: Omniscience and free will are compatible when being viewed from effectively an indeterminate future point.

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Male 2,238
Yae, read down a few pages. The whole thing about the bible not being literal.
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Female 1,798
how do you know, poop? have you talked to God recently? because it seems to me the ONLY way any of your arguments can be proven valid is if you can prove that you`ve recently talked to him, and it is through these conversations that you have come to your conclusions.

you haven`t talked to him?? really?? well then, i guess what you`re saying is really just a matter of opinion and assumptions then, isn`t it?

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Female 385
[quote]in YOUR opinion, he`s cruel and unjust.[/quote]

No, I think from any unbiased POV, he`s cruel and unjust. He slaughters innocent children for the sins of their fathers (The great flood) and sometimes for the sins of a man not related at all (Killing of the firstborn in Egypt). He orders his followers to destroy villages and rape virgin girls into submission. He punishes everyone who doesn`t believe in him, including those who do so due to lack of exposure, so that genuinely good people who don`t believe are punished, and evil people who do are blessed.

All of these are atrocious to anyone with a functioning conscious.

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Male 2,440
Baal, your argument IS sh*t. It does not work at all.

"To put it simply, God can see the end result of our actions. That has nothing to do with how we chose them."

God has EVERYTHING to do with EVERYTHING. That`s sort of what makes God GOD.

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Female 1,798
and i never said "might makes right", only that you`re extremely arrogant :)
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Female 1,798
lol do you not at all hear me when i say that it`s all a matter of opinion? in my eyes, what you say is bull. in yours, what i say is bull.

do you actually read anything we say before you start making a response, or do you just say the first thing that comes to mind, no matter how redundant and boring it is?

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Male 2,238
[quote]To put it simply, God can see the end result of our actions. That has nothing to do with how we chose them.
[/quote]

Thank God, someone who can eloquently say what i`ve been blundering around. Thank you Baal.

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Male 2,440
correction: "To have free will is *to* have choice."

PsychGeek: I`ll say it again. Might does not make right. My ego has not gotten bigger, only my ability to stand up when confronted with bullsh*t no matter the level of power.

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Male 4,546
"Baal, Doc Brown is not omniscient/omnipotent. Your argument is sh*t."

In your own words Poopy:
"I was breaking it down simple as f*ck for you"

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Female 1,798
oooh look, there poop goes cursing again. methinks he`s running out of good arguments?
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Male 2,238
[quote]trp, you idiot

Your argument is sh*t.

you`re an idiot if you can`t see that.[/quote]

Easy does it, poop. We`re not swearing, nor do you need to.

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Male 4,546
Basically, your argument is limiting God in several ways he is not limited to and makes many assumptions about the nature of time.

To put it simply, God can see the end result of our actions. That has nothing to do with how we chose them.

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Male 2,238
[quote]Oh, and excuse me for standing up against the injustice and cruelty of your god.[/quote]

I thought this debate was about God and free will....

[quote]Might does not make right in any case.[/quote]

I never said it did.

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Male 2,440
Baal, Doc Brown is not omniscient/omnipotent. Your argument is sh*t.
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Female 1,798
in YOUR opinion, he`s cruel and unjust.

so you`re now the knight in shining armor, here to save all us ignorant Christians from the wrath of this awful God?

good lord sir, I do believe your ego has gotten even bigger.

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Male 2,238
Nah dude, numbers can`t be disputed, so it`s easy to mislead people that way. That`s how I`d do it, anyway.

Um...free will=/=choice, is what you`re saying. If you can do what you want, with free will, then that`s choice.

Btw, to do the italics, it`s [ quote ]text[ /quote ], without the spaces.

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Male 2,440
"I mean, since you obviously don`t accept him, but are talking about him as existing, then do you consider yourself made by God?"

trp, you idiot, I`m using God for the sake of argument.

Oh, and excuse me for standing up against the injustice and cruelty of your god. Might does not make right in any case.

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Male 4,546
"Did God not already plan Abraham`s whole existence? For a person claiming someone else to uneducated, it seems that you haven`t done enough hard thinking about the incoherencies of your god."

Not understanding the overlap of predetermination and free choice is not other people`s fault.

If God existed in time instead of separate to it, you might have a point.

To simplify. Assume free will.
Doc Brown goes into the future and sees himself talking to Marty McFly, and gives him the option of taking a Banana, or Apple. He makes a choice.

Doc Brown knows what choice Marty makes because he has seen it.

He then returns to his own time, and at that point, lives it back to the point where he is having the conversation.

Marty has a free choice, but Doc already knows the answer, only because he has seen it.

In the case of God, he does not travel through time, he can watch the whole thing from the outside.

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Female 1,798
i actually think it`s hysterical how no matter how many times we tell you that there is NO right or wrong answer to this, you STILL think you`re the only correct one.

:) you`re making me laugh, pooptart, because of your ignorance.

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Female 1,798
no trp, PoopTart thinks he made himself. that he appeared out of thin air, *poof*, as the all-knowing being to our questions.

we must bow down, for he is holier-than-thou!!

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Male 2,440
"Good smokescreen, with the letters and numbers and such, btw."

It`s called a philosophical argument. I was breaking it down simple as f*ck for you, hence the numbers.

" `Omniscient - "having complete or unlimited knowledge, awareness, or understanding; perceiving all things.`

In my dictionary, there`s no limits on `all.` Therefore, God knows everything that could happen, as well as what does.

Therefore, there can be free will, because there are many paths for us to take, all of which He knows. It`s up to us, through free will, to pick the right one."

NO. No no no no no. Get his into your head, trp. To have free will is not have choice. Not the perception of choice, but choice. God, being omniscient and omnipotent, makes choice impossible for you.

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Male 2,238
Poop, a square and a circle are definite, nothing like religion is, or isn`t.

[quote]do I think myself to be a more moral being than the God of the Bible? Then yeah[/quote]

You`re more moral than someone who can`t do wrong? Holy damn. Plus, again, written by man, not literal.

I mean, since you obviously don`t accept him, but are talking about him as existing, then do you consider yourself made by God?

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Female 1,798
"No, PsychGeek. You are wrong. Your idea of God being all-knowing yet allowing us to have free will is self-contradictory and you`re an idiot if you can`t see that."

who the heck are you to say who`s right and wrong? seriously dude, deflate that massive ego of yours, i can see it from my apartment.

i`m not an idiot, and neither are you. i, for one, am mature enough to see that there are opinions OUTSIDE OF MY OWN.

you`re still working on that skill, i see.

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Female 1,798
"trp, if you mean do I think myself to be a more moral being than the God of the Bible? Then yeah, I absolutely do on every level."

....i honestly don`t know how to respond to this, except to say that it proves my theory: you are extremely arrogant and egocentric.

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Male 2,440
No, PsychGeek. You are wrong. Your idea of God being all-knowing yet allowing us to have free will is self-contradictory and you`re an idiot if you can`t see that.
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Male 2,238
Good smokescreen, with the letters and numbers and such, btw.

Omniscient - "having complete or unlimited knowledge, awareness, or understanding; perceiving all things."

In my dictionary, there`s no limits on `all.` Therefore, God knows everything that could happen, as well as what does.

Therefore, there can be free will, because there are many paths for us to take, all of which He knows. It`s up to us, through free will, to pick the right one.

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Female 1,798
so you`re saying i`m flat-out wrong and what you`re saying is fact?

you really are arrogant, aren`t you? i`m starting to not take you seriously again, because you`re just spouting off for the sake of spouting off.

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Male 2,440
"Poop, question. If all that you are saying is true, does that mean you see yourself above God?"

trp, if you mean do I think myself to be a more moral being than the God of the Bible? Then yeah, I absolutely do on every level.

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Female 1,798
tart, you`re fighting an age-old fight that does NOT HAVE A CORRECT ANSWER.

again, you`re acting as though everyone else is wrong, and you`re the only right one.

if you could please stop strutting around thinking your answer is the end-all and the answer to the age-old questions, i`d really appreciate it.

you`re not right/wrong, neither are trp and i.

give it a rest already. or do you not understand that IT`S JUST AN OPINION??

if philosophers like Plato and Socrates couldn`t come up with a definite, universal answer, then neither will you. and on your best day, you`re not as smart as they were on their worst.

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Male 2,440
PsychGeek, there`s an opinion and then there`s being flatout f*cking wrong.

It`s not an OPINION that a square is not a circle. It`s a fact.

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Male 2,440
trp, PsychGeek, read this and use your brains. I give you a summary of:

The Problem of Divine Foreknowledge:

P1) If God is omniscient, then God knows EXACTLY what every person will do at every moment (t).

P2) To say that a person x has free will means that there is a moment where x performs an action (A) but COULD have done other (B,C...).

P3) But if x could have done other than "A" at "t", then x could have caused God to have a false belief.

P4) Since God is omniscient, it is impossible that God could have a false belief.

P5) If P4, then it is impossible that x could have done otherwise at "t"

P6) If P5, then x does not have free will.

Conclusion: If God is omniscient, humans cannot have free will.

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Male 2,238
Poop, question. If all that you are saying is true, does that mean you see yourself above God?

Also, the point that you are making, we`ll have to agree to disagree.

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Female 1,798
tart, give this a rest already. you will not convince me or anyone else you`re right, because in the end it`s just a matter of OPINION. you want to win the fight? fine, you win. but only in your eyes. i`m tired of this round-in-circles fight that has no answer.
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Male 2,238
Cman, read what we`ve been saying, then come back. That`s already been addressed.
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Male 2,238
[quote]You are talking out of your @ss, sir.[/quote]

I respectfully disagree.

The text IS within our understanding, some of us anyway.

And being allowed to understand? Well, sir, that is called religion.

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Female 1,798
"ok bottom line. IF you want to be a christian then you have to believe what the bible says, which is that homosexuality is wrong. im sorry. you want to accept homosexuality? stop being a christian. no more needs to be said."


who in the HELL died and made you King of all the Christians??? who in the HELL made such a stupid rule??

I sir, am a Christian. and I am very pro-gay rights.

You are nothing but ignorant and have no clue what it really means to be Christian. Accept others for who they are, and don`t judge them for what they can`t control.

homesexuality is NOT a sin, and it`s NOT a choice. bottom line.

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Male 2,440
"Woah there Poopy, bold words. If there was no free will, then there would be no sin. And if free will didn`t exist, then people like yourself wouldn`t exist; if god was that controlling, surely he`d want everyone to follow and believe him?

God gives us guidance, then lets us run along and do our own thing."

trp, Let me break this down to you, okay?

If God is God, then God knew beforehand what creating Adam & Eve would lead to, yes? Where is the choice in the matter? If God doesn`t WANT something to happen, then it DOESN`T. God`s will is whatever it is that happens. God can`t create something that can "betray" him (Lucifer) and can`t create something that "goes wrong" (Adam & Eve).

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Female 1,798
trp is not talking "out of his @ss*, he`s voicing is OPINION, like you are.

the only difference is that trp doesn`t put others down for what they say, unlike you.

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Male 617
ok bottom line. IF you want to be a christian then you have to believe what the bible says, which is that homosexuality is wrong. im sorry. you want to accept homosexuality? stop being a christian. no more needs to be said.
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Female 1,798
aaah see here we are entering into a discussion that has existed for thousands of years: can free will and God`s will both exist?

the answer, *in my mind,* is yes. God ULTIMATElY knows what will become of each and every one of us; he knows where we`ll end up. However, he does not know what will happen to us day to day. This is free will. He allows us to make our own choices in life and go where we will, because ultimately we`ll all end up where He wants us to be.

You talk as though your answer is the *only* right one. this is not an argument about right and wrong, it`s a matter of opinion and faith. stop acting as though no one else but you can be right. you have your thoughts on the matter, and i have mine.

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Male 2,440
trp, Psych, first off, the both of you need to look up a little thing called the "Problem of Divine Foreknowledge."

"What God says goes, yes, BUT the bible isn`t solely what he said. Human limitations come into it, meaning the book is biased in many places. And once again, like a cracked record, I am saying that one shouldn`t take it word-for-word."

Human limitations? If we are limited in our understanding, then why not create a text that IS within our understanding? Or simply allow us to understand? You are talking out of your @ss, sir.

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Male 2,238
[quote]If God exists, free will does not.[/quote]

Woah there Poopy, bold words. If there was no free will, then there would be no sin. And if free will didn`t exist, then people like yourself wouldn`t exist; if god was that controlling, surely he`d want everyone to follow and believe him?

God gives us guidance, then lets us run along and do our own thing.

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Male 2,440
"why would I think about the incoherence of my God?"

Sh*t, you know, gosh. I mean, why WOULD you think about it? It`s not like it`s GOD or anything. Darn me for questioning.

"...in my mind, He is perfect and does everything for a reason. I *personally* don`t think he plans every minute of our lives for us, that`s why he gave us brains. however, I do think he knows the ultimate outcome of our lives."

Hold on there, skippy. How can God be God and yet NOT plan out everything? If you are God, you know everything. You know of everything that was, is, and will be. There is no point in time where you don`t know what will transpire. The idea of God being omniscient and/or omnipotent is inconsistent with free will. If God exists, free will does not.

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Male 2,238
[quote]doesn`t repeating yourself get old after a while?[/quote]

Yes`m, it sure does. But knowledge is power, and i`m only too happy to impart my views on the matter.

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Female 1,798
my thoughts exactly, trp.

doesn`t repeating yourself get old after a while? :p

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Male 2,238
[quote]I *personally* don`t think he plans every minute[/quote]

I agree. It`s called free will, and that`s why sin exists.

[quote]but leave me to my faith without putting it down. [/quote]

Amen.

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Male 2,238
[quote]You honestly think your God was just d*cking around when he told Abraham to kill his son, Isaac? What kind of sick [email protected] god does that?!
[/quote]

That`s not a literal story, but you took it literally. Therefore, since it`s the only example you used, I assumed you took the whole thing literally.

What God says goes, yes, BUT the bible isn`t solely what he said. Human limitations come into it, meaning the book is biased in many places. And once again, like a cracked record, I am saying that one shouldn`t take it word-for-word.

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Female 1,798
God wanted to test Abraham because, in your words, He`s God. He doesn`t need to give us a reason behind everything He does. -shrug- I don`t always agree with His decisions, but eh--He always shows me the reason in the end.

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Female 1,798
why would I think about the incoherence of my God? in my mind, He is perfect and does everything for a reason. I *personally* don`t think he plans every minute of our lives for us, that`s why he gave us brains. however, I do think he knows the ultimate outcome of our lives.

when it comes down to it, it`s all about personal faith and opinion. my God and i have a very close and personal relationship, and frankly nothing you say can change it. believe what you want, but leave me to my faith without putting it down.

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Male 2,440
"Firstly, you contradicted yourself. You say that the bible is inspired by God to back up one point, and written by man to back up another. Pick a side dude, or else it`s like talking to a Hydra."

trp, I`ll clarify. *I* don`t take it literally, but others surely do. And if not literally, they at least think it`s inspired by God. If you think a text is "of God," then there is no "context." God is God and what God says GOES. END OF STORY.

"and, for the record, God told Abraham to kill his son because He wanted to test Abraham`s loyalty."

PsychGeek, God wanted to TEST Abraham? Now just WHY in the drat would God need to TEST ANYTHING if he`s GOD?! A test implies that you don`t already know the outcome. Did God not already plan Abraham`s whole existence? For a person claiming someone else to uneducated, it seems that you haven`t done enough hard thinking about the incoherencies of your god.

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Female 1,798
lol trp!! :)
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Female 1,798
I definitely agree, trp. It is definitely within the realm of possibilities to think that most of the Bible stories are metaphors, not to be taken word-for-word.

I don`t know why tart is getting sooo upset over this, especially since he can`t seem to talk about it like a mature adult.

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Male 2,238
And now I look like i`m talking to myself. Finger slipped. Just don`t go around calling people `uppity c*nts.`
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Male 2,238
No Poop. Use the rights to talk like a normal person, or lose them.
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Male 2,238
Poop, for an atheist, you sure take the Book literally.

Firstly, you contradicted yourself. You say that the bible is inspired by God to back up one point, and written by man to back up another. Pick a side dude, or else it`s like talking to a Hydra.

The whole killing the son bit? IMHO, that`s not literal, as is almost none of the bible, barring Jesus Rising.

My views on the matter, just to clarify, the book is Divine Inspiration; inspired by God, written by man. Therefore, the teachings are correct, whereas the examples may not be.

Again, it`s not literal.

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Female 1,798
and, for the record, God told Abraham to kill his son because He wanted to test Abraham`s loyalty.

in OUR society, that may be considered "sick". however, in the time in which the Bible was written, that wasn`t unheard of.

keep the Bible in its context, don`t apply all the stories to the 21st century.

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Male 12,138
Baal is a clever dude, take those notes. Even though the rules of the internet state that I should HATEHIMHATEHIMRETARDHATATEHIM!, I simply cannot. Quite the opposite.

We disagree on many issues, but there are things that transcend I-A-B forum posts. I think Baal and I (don`t have a hernia!) are more alike than might first appear, despite our diametrically-opposing world-views on religion.

And frankly, I think that`s kinda cool. Gives me hope.

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Male 4,546
Ty Davy. I`m extremely busy this week, as I`m going on leave next week for 2 months.

So I need to finish everything I need to do for the rest of the year in the next... 3 days.

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Female 1,798
see once again, this isn`t serious.

if you`d please take the immature cursewords out of your comment, then i`ll read it. i honestly took a look at the first line and stopped.

once again, grow up. no one takes you seriously with all the cursing, because you look like an uneducated moron.

and i laughed :)

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Male 2,440
PsychGeek, you want some serious sh*t from me? FINE.

"to say the bible is full of sh*t is also closed-minded."

Well f*ck me for saying that a collection of bullsh*t stories from primative @sshats is full of sh*t. Oops, did I hurt your feelings?

"keep the bible in its context, and don`t throw the whole book away as being useless.

Keep the Bible in its context? Pretty hard to keep a text in its context when it is supposedly inspired by, I dunno, GOD! You honestly think your God was just d*cking around when he told Abraham to kill his son, Isaac? What kind of sick [email protected] god does that?!

"while it`s not right to twist some parts of it around to fit your argument and ignore others, it`s also wrong to completely disregard a sacred text as worthless--many would also consider that offensive."

& Scientologists find it offensive to make fun of Xenu, but what else can I do but laugh at pure bullsh*t?

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Male 2,238
You`ve got it down to a fine art, Baal.

*takes notes*

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Female 1,798
lol thanks baalthazaq, i`ll definitely remember that one :)
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Male 12,138
Baal has it. Good to hear from you mate btw.
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Male 2,238
No probs Psych, One can`t be expected to have an intelligent discussion in the midst of vulgarities.
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Male 4,546
What I usually do Psychgeek is hit the back button. Reword my comment. Post it again.

If there are any people between my double post, I delete the new one, even though it is error free. Then replace it with a "Sorry, meant to say X"

If both my posts are back to back, I delete the one with the typo.

That way you don`t mess with the post order. You satisfy the OCD sufferer in you, and all is well with the world.

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Female 1,798
yep, I`m with trp on this one :)

and thank you for backing me up about vulgar responses :)

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Male 12,138
[quote]Sadly, the ignorant usually remain ignorant despite scientific evidence and choose to believe what they`re told from other sources. I`m sure George W still thinks there is no global warming and that there`s still WOMDs in Iraq. What do experts know anyway?[/quote]

I feel your pain mate. And yet I remain beset on all sides by retards. How to escape this quandry?

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Male 2,238
Elimitator, what I mean is, would you want to be persecuted for something you had no control over, like your hair colour? No you wouldn`t.

Poop, i`m Catholic. Barred the whole `Jesus rising from the dead` thing, I take NONE of it literally. Dude, if you take that thing literally, it IS ridiculous. PsychGeek backs me up here.

Well Davy, I can see where you`re coming from, but take me for example. My religion is probably the biggest group of persecuators ever, due to religious, racial or sexual reasons, but I don`t buy into all that sh*t. Personality transcends beliefs, is what i`m trying to get across.

Oh yeah, Poop, dude, you can disagree with someone without swearing at them.

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Female 1,798
aaaand there he goes again with immature comments :) you have completely made my day, because every time something infantile comes out of your mouth, i laugh.

i can`t even take you seriously :) keep saying stupid stuff, and i`ll keep laughing :)

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Male 236
Sadly, the ignorant usually remain ignorant despite scientific evidence and choose to believe what they`re told from other sources. I`m sure George W still thinks there is no global warming and that there`s still WOMDs in Iraq. What do experts know anyway? If my preacher says something contradictory....I must listen! (Gay Christian man here btw).
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Male 2,440
PsychGeek, please get the sand out of your vagina.
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Female 1,798
actually there`s not, i explained myself in another comment. :) so you can stop commenting on it now, as the original conversation between me and the other person had nothing to do with you. kthanks :)
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Male 12,138
Nope, gone again. Apologies to anyone trying to follow this conversation. There`s a slightly reworded comment soon to come, I`m sure.
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Female 1,798
lol i didn`t do anything! okay well i re-worded it because i found a typo, but now i can`t find it o.O

stupid interwebz...

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Male 772
I`m interested in the trip back to Kentucky >.>
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Female 1,798
I actually didn`t delete it, i have no clue what happened to it. i could retype it, but frankly that would be a waste of time. in a nutshell, i basically said that he was making himself look like an immature little kid and should wait until he`s older to talk to me. :)
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Male 12,138
Oh no, wait, she self-deleted and reworded it. Now we`re all confused.
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Male 12,138
Darn, PsychGeek deleted her comment. Now we just look a bit mental, Poop.
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Male 985
Nice vid.

Imo, there is nothing wrong with gays, it cannot be a choice, as no one (except emos) would want to put themself in the position where they are hated. (oh and trolls, dont forget trolls).

Oh and Dub, stop hiding in the closet.

Oh also http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8iZgDkHqk... LOLOLOL

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Female 1,798
LOL oooh such big words for a big man!!

grow up dude, you`re just wasting your time by trying to put me down. i`m sure you have better things to do with your time than look like a bumbling idiot?

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Male 12,138
Not my place, but I thought he had a good point actually. Just me though.
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Male 2,440
PsychGeek, blow me. I honestly don`t give a flying f*ck.
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Male 12,138
[quote]Hey hey, easy there. People everywhere are intolerant, it`s not just due to their religious beliefs.[/quote]

I respectfully, and inflammatorially, disagree.

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Male 2,440
PsychGeek, boo-f*cking-hoo.
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Female 1,798
"Why would the Old Testament say this and then have Jesus spread a message of supposed peace? Hmmmmm, could it be that the Bible is simply full of sh*t? Just sayin`."

to say the bible is full of sh*t is also closed-minded. keep the bible in its context, and don`t throw the whole book away as being useless. while it`s not right to twist some parts of it around to fit your argument and ignore others, it`s also wrong to completely disregard a sacred text as worthless--many would also consider that offensive.

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Male 1,190
I was born a Poly Trisexual and I am proud!
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Male 11
The whole point fo twins in gene study is that identical twins have the exact same genes where as fraternal twins are no more geneticaly similar or different then any non-twin pairs of siblings.
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Male 2,440
"Sure, the bible does mention something about homosexuals being unnatural or some trash, but of course it`s not literal."

Not literal? What in the holy balls? Just which parts of the Bible are you taking literally, trp712? Lemme guess, is it the friendly parts?

And now if you`ll turn to Leviticus:

"If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."
- Leviticus 20:13

Why would the Old Testament say this and then have Jesus spread a message of supposed peace? Hmmmmm, could it be that the Bible is simply full of sh*t? Just sayin`.

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Female 1,798
"I`m assuming Fraternal and Identical are different, yes?"

Fraternal twins come from two different eggs, fertilized by two different sperm. Identical twins occur when one egg splits into two, and both had been fertilized by the same sperm.

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Male 17
trp712 where does do unto others as you would have them do to you have to do with weather your gay or not. Those two statements have nothing to do with each other.
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Male 2,238
Gotcha.
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Female 15,763
Trp, yes. Fraternal twins being different sexualities would not be eligible for the kind of study the video was talking about.
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Male 2,238
[quote]Does heterozygous mean fraternal?[/quote]

Hetero is like, different, so fraternal.

I`m assuming Fraternal and Identical are different, yes?

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Female 15,763
"I`m a twin (heterozygous) and gay, but my brother isn`t."

Does heterozygous mean fraternal? I can`t remember my biology...

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Male 2,238
Whoops, double post.

[quote]I, on the other hand, liked the video more precisely BECAUSE they singled out "christian". [/quote]

Hey hey, easy there. People everywhere are intolerant, it`s not just due to their religious beliefs. Sure, the bible does mention something about homosexuals being unnatural or some trash, but of course it`s not literal.

Why would God preach `Do unto others` one minute, and then say, `Oh wait, except for these guys` the next?
No way does that make sense, at least not to me.

What i`m trying to say, don`t paint all the houses with the same colour.

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Male 2,238
[quote]*cough* REPOST *cough*[/quote]

Electricmonk, you must be one of the only people here who can see a full blown discussion in progress, and come in with that^^. Mad respect.

(but not really)

My views on this matter, you can`t change who you are. If you`re attracted to men, to women, to toasters, that`s how you`re born, and that`s the way you`ll die.
No amount of "ZOMG BUT ITS ICKY ND RONG" is ever gonna change it.

People need to get over themselves and accept it. Who are you to deny a person of being who they truly are?

[/rant]

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Male 12,138
Soz for double post. dubtac, I`ll lay a heavy bet that you`re Christian.

Not all Christians are anti-gay, but all anti-gays I`ve ever met are Christian. In the immortal words of Stephen Fry, "Religion: sh*t it."

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Male 702
Interesting thing about the birth order.
I`m a twin (heterozygous) and gay, but my brother isn`t.
Although we are both from our mother`s third pregnancy.
Take THAT science!

*Starts working on debunking the climate change theory*

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Male 12,138
[quote]I dont really care for the gay ppl to much for one reason.What would be the point of the Human race if we couldn`t reproduce.If u want to be gay fine.But to me they are useless because they cant reproduce naturally and with that in mind blah blah blah[/quote]

Right, like the planet needs more people just now.

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Female 1,798
lol 2 thumbs up for drhorrible :)
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Male 108
(continued from post below)

(got cut off, as I was saying...)

Makes perfect sense to me. Moron.

(Didn`t want my point to get lost there due to character limit.)

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Male 108
Dubtac - That has got to be the single most ignorant post thus far in this thread.
"...they are useless because they cant reproduce naturally..." WTF? So it`s now physically impossible to have sex with a member of the opposite gender if you`re gay? Gay people are capable of having sex with the opposite gender, it`s just not enjoyable in any way to them, that`s all.
"...But according to science if are born gay your going to have sex with the male anyway thus killing off your species..." This is just illogical. I`m sure if there was a *need* to reproduce for the sake of the species, most gay men would go ahead with it. That`s how survival instinct works.
"...When gays start making babies without test tubes then I will be the first person to legitimize there existence..." By this argument, every hetero man and woman who is sterile for ANY reason is also useless. So cancers, birth defects, etc all render the human useless as well?
Gotcha. Makes pe
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Female 1,798
dubtac---i hope your son turns out gay so you can see it from the other point of view.

open your eyes, and stop being such a closed-minded nitwit.

btw, for anyone who thinks homosexuality is a "lifestyle choice", you`re freakin` wrong and need to do your research.

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Male 3,369
Dubtac...do you expect us to believe that you`ve never masturbated? That`s sex without reproduction. So are BJ`s and titty f-ing.
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Male 3,369
Shunpo31said:"s it a choice to stick one`s wang in someone`s poo hole? yes.
case dismissed.
_________________________________________________
Sure, but if you`re into that sort of thing, wouldn`t it matter A LOT whether there was a man or woman on the other end of that poo-hole?
I`m straight, but not by "choice". I just like women. A lot of straight men like anal...that doesn`t make them gay, it just means they want (need?) a tighter hole.
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Male 29
I dont really care for the gay ppl to much for one reason.What would be the point of the Human race if we couldn`t reproduce.If u want to be gay fine.But to me they are useless because they cant reproduce naturally and with that in mind there is no science behind being gay, making being gay a choice.It is proven a race that cant reproduce eventually becomes extinct.Bottom Line.With that fact in mind.If there was two males and one female the natural thing to do would be to reproduce with the female and saving the human species from extinction.But according to science if are born gay your going to have sex with the male anyway thus killing off your species.It just dont make any sense to have sex without the possibility of reproduction even if its a 1 nite stand baby.When gays start making babies without test tubes then I will be the first person to legitimize there existence as functional persons in society.If you gay are be happy.But remember no reproduction=no survival
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Male 10,440
[quote] I would have liked this video a lot more if it didn`t name the ignorant character "Christian." =/ I know they did that on purpose, and honestly I don`t think it was necessary.[/quote]

I, on the other hand, liked the video more precisely BECAUSE they singled out "christian".

:D

Now, getting back to the issue, or rather the movie. I think it was very well done. Informative, funny, aimed at a very VERY wide audience...

My fav part was the "psssst.... *whisper* we`re still gay". 4/4.

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Female 96
*cough* REPOST *cough*
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Female 678
To each their own. I like the cartoon. at least it gets people`s attention
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Male 1,666
Just a real quick note about something that I noticed while reading this forum, most of the people that are opposed to gay marriage/equality/sex or anything along those lines seem to be from the Southern/Midwest US area. I`m not attacking anyone or any area, but we seem to be products of our environments, eh?
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Male 18
The chick is pretty hot. I wish I was a lesbian...
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Female 1,199
I would have liked this video a lot more if it didn`t name the ignorant character "Christian." =/ I know they did that on purpose, and honestly I don`t think it was necessary.

I`m an advocate for gay rights, and I abhor the idea of mistreating them or thinking of them as lesser than anyone else. We`re all equal, we are meant to love one another regardless of their orientation. Who cares if they decide to live their life differently? Do you think that telling them they`re "wrong" or insulting them will make them stop? No. As long as heir lifestyle isn`t harmful to others or anything, let them live the way they want to live.

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Male 1,666
Wow. It`s like somebody made a cartoon out of my exact views on homosexuality and the issues surrounding it. How bout we show this video to every man, woman, and child in the world?
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Male 46
I`m all for it. I`m not gay. But some people are ignorant and need this type of education.
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Male 346
BUT GUYS, GAYS ARE BAD AND STUFF
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Female 2,228
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Female 2,228
Shunpo + Ohthedrama, for future reference The "Unnaturalness" argument
and
/article_archive/30949.html">The Procreation argument

You both Phayl.

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Male 895
man this post did exacly what I hoped it would
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Female 1,441
Wow, I was joking. I definitely did not expect the lecture.
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Male 30
I really liked this educational cartoon. Anyways, the queer bashing is probably lowering, but then again I live in Toronto (pretty gay friendly around here).

P.S. I`m bi.

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Male 12,365
"Does that mean you don`t like Saganaki? What`s wrong with you!?"

I hadn`t even heard of it. Having looked it up, I can confidently say that I`d leave the area if it was being cooked. The smell would sicken me and maybe make me vomit. I`ll leave the area if someone has cheese on toast, or a sandwich with melted cheese. I find cooked cheese highly repulsive, to the extent that if I had a choice between eating it and eating dung, I`m not sure which I`d choose. It really is that disgusting to me.

There`s nothing wrong with me, in the same way that there`s nothing wrong with people who really *don`t* want to drink someone else`s urine as part of sex (which is harmless, like eating cheese).

Do you think there`s something wrong with everyone who doesn`t share your tastes in something? You know, like someone who is heterosexual and thinks that there`s something wrong with homosexuals? <--- Just in case you didn`t get the point.

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Male 1,196
i think the person who made the video manipulated those stats to sound like they were supporting his/her theories a little more than they were, but i agree with most of it and i thought it was a funny way to look at it. I`m glad my church doesn`t persecute people for being gay although we believe it is sinful to participate in homosexual acts.
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Male 12,365
"Everyone has an agenda and untill everyone is recognised as equal then there will allways be fighting and victimisation!"

The concept of "equal" has been so thoroughly corrupted by bigots who have abused it to create a false image to hide behind that I usually think it`s impossible to reclaim it.

As a rule of thumb, I assume that any organisation that claims to be advocating equality for any one group of people only is in fact advocating prejudice and discrimination against everyone else. I also assume that any person making that claim is either a bigot themself or a useful idiot for bigots.

There may be some exceptions, which of course is why I said it was a rule of thumb. What`s an absolute certainty, though, is that they have no idea what equality is.

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Male 388
all you people talking crap about gays, i hope you get raped by a gay rapist. :)
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Female 1,441
"I find cooked cheese gross. The thought of eating cooked cheese makes me feel a bit sick."

Does that mean you don`t like Saganaki? What`s wrong with you!?

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Female 15,763
Angil, please don`t ever leave this site. The de bates just aren`t the same without you! That`s true for a LOT of prominent debaters here...
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Male 3,369
Sorry mighty_puzz.

The tolerance argument is a imvalid as well! It wont happen and never will! Dont get me wrong, it would be a wonderfull world if everybody just minded their own business and left everyone else alone but thats not how it works!

Everyone has an agenda and untill everyone is recognised as equal then there will allways be fighting and victimisation! However, the problem with everyone being equal means everyone wants the same thing! Thats clearly not the case, be it religion, sexuality, law etc etc.

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Male 12,365
"am I the only one who finds the whole gay thing a little gross? I mean, male buggery? the thought makes me wretch."

I think you`re thinking about you having sex with another man and using that as the basis for your opinion of men having sex with each other.

I find cooked cheese gross. The thought of eating cooked cheese makes me feel a bit sick.

So I don`t eat cooked cheese. But I don`t care if people who like cooked cheese eat it.

My thoughts about *me* eating cooked cheese don`t really apply to other people eating cooked cheese.

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Male 12,365
"I said it before and will say it again, there is nothing wrong in the love between a male and a male or a female and a female. It gets wrong when you feel a sexual attraction that is, a desire to have sex with this person."

Why?

Don`t give me any reproduction burble, because you know as well as I do that reproduction isn`t the only reason why people have sex and you also know as well as I do that humanity will not die out if a fairly small minority of people don`t have children. It`s a stunningly stupid argument.

Don`t bother with "it`s wrong because it`s wrong", either. That`s not a reason.

"It`s wrong because people have told me that my god says it is" isn`t much of a reason, but at least it`s internally consistent.

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Male 1
emzrok: "People who don`t like gay people are dicks and ignorant."

Are all gay people nice by default?

By calling people dicks who disagree with you, you invalidate your argument. Your beef is not with those that disagree, but those who act inappropriately (rudeness or violence) to others they disagree with.

Let`s assume I was a racist homophobe. If I went around calling someone a jew faggot or punched out men who wore nice clothes, yes I would indeed be a dick. However, if I quietly think that gays are making a choice but treat them with civility and compassion, that`s my right.

What we should strive for in this culture is to make people dratING BEHAVE THEMSELVES. Not change their opinion. You can hate someone all you want, but you need to be nice to them regardless. That`s what tolerance is.

I`m for gay rights, but who wants to get married anyways?

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Male 108
I think the `it`s a choice` argument is ridiculous simply because choosing a life that is filled with hatred, violence, and horrible deaths via gay-bashing simply goes against the survival instinct in all people. Besides, how much does it really effect you what two people do in their own homes? I mean, how much would you care if your hetero-couple-neighbors are playing with god-only-knows-what kind of toys n pron in their bedroom? It`s something that is unknown and not understood, therefore there`s fear, and people hate what they fear. And before you guys get into the whole "pushing your gay agenda" crap, I`m married to a lovely woman. I simply feel that people deserve to be who they are and not face such hatred due to something out of their control.
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Male 3,014
Gay people should be allowed to do whatever the hell they want, just as long as they don`t share stories about their intimate lives with me.
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Female 15,763
"We have a sexual need but we CAN surpress that need for other needs. We CAN choose to express our sexual nature in other ways but we should be also realize that nature doesn`t provide for homosexuality as a means for repopulation either. A dick in the ass does not make a kid."

I take it you`re against all forms of contraception then? I don`t see a solid argument for why homosexual sex should be "wrong" in any objective or even subjective way.

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Male 3,369
I can feel my IQ dropping just by reading some of the comments from the anti gay crowd!

I find it astounding that people can be dumber than pig crap but there you go!

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Male 162
I said it before and will say it again, there is nothing wrong in the love between a male and a male or a female and a female. It gets wrong when you feel a sexual attraction that is, a desire to have sex with this person. Animals haven`t a clue why they start getting it on with the same sex, to them they have a sexual need and the closest dog is certainly doing to help with that. We are different in our freewill. We have a sexual need but we CAN surpress that need for other needs. We CAN choose to express our sexual nature in other ways but we should be also realize that nature doesn`t provide for homosexuality as a means for repopulation either. A dick in the ass does not make a kid.
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Male 1,381
is it a choice to stick one`s wang in someone`s poo hole? yes.

case dismissed.

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Male 4,745
So you all agree that gays are born that way? fantastic!

Now...how about contacting your local politicians and asking for them to have the right to be married? Taking away this basic, human right, is just despicable.

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Female 15,763
"Most every gay person I`ve met has had one of those pasts, like `mommy/daddy didn`t love me!` or abandonment issues or abuse, etc. And of course, in a twins` case, they would`ve shared the same background."

Well that`s a completely legitimate reason to lay a blanket of intolerance across an entire categorization of people!

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Male 1,054
seetherage

You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

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Female 15,763
"this site has so many hidden agendas, they`re no longer hidden."

Hidden agenda? Oh you found us out, we`re all liberal gay commies that like to worship Satan yet at the same time are militant atheists.

...Or, you know, we just like it when you guys discuss things.

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Male 1,452
[quote] am I the only one who finds the whole gay thing a little gross? I mean, male buggery? the thought makes me wretch. this site has so many hidden agendas, they`re no longer hidden. [/quote]
your comment is hilarious coming from a guy who calls himself a bear
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Male 108
I think the `it`s a choice` argument is ridiculous simply because choosing a life that is filled with hatred, violence, and horrible deaths via gay-bashing simply goes against the survival instinct in all people. Besides, how much does it really effect you what two people do in their own homes? I mean, how much would you care if your hetero-couple-neighbors are playing with god-only-knows-what kind of toys n pron in their bedroom? It`s something that is unknown and not understood, therefore there`s fear, and people hate what they fear. And before you guys get into the whole "pushing your gay agenda" crap, I`m married to a lovely woman. I simply feel that people deserve to be who they are and not face such hatred due to something out of their control.
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Male 2,220
There`s no w in retch.. maybe you meant "the thought makes me wrench" wrench what exactly?
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Male 85
gay people make such a fuss about everything, claiming they are targeted, but they make themselves the targets by making such a fuss. :)
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Male 2,440
I think 10Bears wants a big `ol manhug. Come on, now. Don`t be shy!
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Male 394
Did anyone else WTF at the last 3 seconds?
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Male 488
am I the only one who finds the whole gay thing a little gross? I mean, male buggery? the thought makes me wretch. this site has so many hidden agendas, they`re no longer hidden.
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Male 394
Homophobes are just pissed `cause they cant get laid.
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Male 901
Poker_face, two things:

Firstly, identical twin studies are most often done on identical twins being raised in different families, so to eliminate the risk of environmental factors weighing in.

Secondly, most homo sexuals are not like that. In fact, most people don`t shout out their sexual preference for all to see. The point is, you see those who do, and therefore you assume that it`s the rule rather than the exception. It happens a lot, but it`s not true.

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Female 51
@emzrok: That`s a gross characterization. I don`t like gay people because for most of them, being gay is all that defines them. All they can talk about is that they`re gay, that they went to some gay pride thing, and that they belong to some gay pride club. Holy poo, I get the picture, y`know? I knew you were gay the second I met you, so...let`s talk about something else...like your job. Or your family. Or politics. Or the weather. Please.
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Female 51
Of course, it would have been more interesting if they had had an actual Christian debating it with them, instead of just using a few lame arguments.

I think the twins thing is dumb. Everyone knows that twins share special connections to each other, so if one went gay, it wouldn`t be such a leap for the other to join him.

Most every gay person I`ve met has had one of those pasts, like `mommy/daddy didn`t love me!` or abandonment issues or abuse, etc. And of course, in a twins` case, they would`ve shared the same background.

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Female 1,306
People who don`t like gay people are dicks and ignorant. The end. Remember when everyone hated african-americans because they were "different"? Yeah, that was about 75 years ago, any haters out there. Evolve already.
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Male 73
The best part was at the beginning, "Here are two GAY people..."

Made me lol.

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Male 670
yea, i would like to know about the trip back to kentucky!!
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Male 1,002
Well i just gained a tremendous amount of respect for Don LaFontaine! (the narrator)
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Male 1,929
Can`t argue with any of that.
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Male 758
LMFAO at Bob Jones!
*sigh*...so glad to live in SC...
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Male 299
Hmm... awful lack of opposition in the comments...
And, 3:15 was hilarious.
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Male 249
lmfao at "We`re still gay"
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Male 186
I jacked off to one of the gay guys in the cartoon. Does that make me gay?
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Male 2,199
i laughed my ass off at 3:15
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Female 77
WHAT ABOUT KENTUCKY!? Please! I need to know!
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Female 3,598
somebody boot konoto04
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Male 95
worked for me fine
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Male 196
At least it`s fair and provides information from both sides of the argument. And "Christian" puts forth many of the reasonable arguments from the opposing side.
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Female 288
Who has a link? this doesn`t work.