Boy Won`t Pledge Allegiance in his Classroom

Submitted by: the_windy 7 years ago in
http://www.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/us/2009/11/16/am.boy.no.pledge.cnn.html

An Arkansas 10-year-old says he won"t pledge to the flag until gays and lesbians have equal rights.
There are 259 comments:
Female 23
Epic win kid, " I really don`t know what a gay wad is, a deregetory name for someone who is a homeosexual" This kid seems pretty smart,I applaud his bravery and sticking up for his rights. :D
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Female 1,120
tails-tails, very well said. =D
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Female 1,120
I didn`t even have to look down to know there is gonna be some religious rant on here. No matter how hard you argue people seem to be very stuck on their own beliefs.
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Male 122
What i do is say

I pledge aliegence to the flag of the untited states of america, and to the republic for whiches stands one nation, under god, in the visable and there is no librity and justice for all. Sorry for the grammar errors XD

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Male 819
All things aside, just the fact that children are forced to pledge allegiance to anything, even their own country, on a daily basis and at a very young age is in my opinion a very negative thing. I know that when I mindlessly repeated it every morning during elementary and to some extent middle school, I had no real understanding of what I was saying, and I certainly did not have the mental maturity to consent to anything.

Forcing children to say the pledge goes against one of the founding tenets of the US: namely individual freedom. It also goes against the 1st and to some extent 14th amendments.

I find that for a democratic country that was built on dissent it is strange to essentially brainwash us when we are children into mindlessly swearing fealty to our country.

I also find that it defeats the purpose. "Pledging allegiance" should be something that is done at an age where there can actually be implications and meaning to the act. Also it should be done of one`s o

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Male 764
@ Adaub He wasn`t the one who claimed being gay was a chemical imbalance we were discussing, How, that if being gay was something you had no control over and are born with why don`t they just cure it.
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Male 12,365
[quote]Pretty easy really. Marriage is a churchy thing conscripted by the state for taxation purposes. The churchy-type people have a right to it. They should consider a patent.[/quote]

Areligious marriages have been around since long before the church you refer to.

In pre-Christian Rome, for example, there were several forms of marriage, of which only the least common was religious. By late republic (still pre-Christian) Rome, it was almost never used outside of a few priesthoods. All that was required for a legal marriage was the spouses stating that they were married or living together continuously for a year.

Even as late as medieval England, the church was barely involved in marriage. Statement of marriage was enough for the law.

Marriage is actually a personal and legal thing conscripted by the church.

But it has been very thoroughly conscripted by the church, so demanding the word is utterly counter-productive.

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Male 3,147
Hmmm.. I was expecting this to be one of the cases where the kid has been told what to say from the parent and has to keep looking to them before answering.

I was pleasantly surprised by not seeing any of that at all. I saw a very bright young kid who`s capable of speaking for himself brilliantly.

good on him.

p.s. @opie "Then explain to me why animals are extensively documented to exhibit same-sex behaviors and why you have a prostate buried deep in your ass with many nerve endings and many pleasure spots."


you couldn`t mail my girlfriend and tell her how to find it less clumsily could you?

At the moment she`s all fingers and thumbs..

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Male 72
Ha go kid!
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Male 4,593
Fags, go figure.

Why is this even news?

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Male 14,331
@PierreJeanFR
At 30 to 39 if you don`t know what homosexuals do you must have the IQ of a cucumber.

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Male 377
PierreJeanFR probably because he has half a brain more than you do.
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Male 1,360
oldoddie, how do you know what gays do...
oldfaggot
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Male 377
@Angilion - about equal rights legislation... hence why I said "it should say" not "it does say".
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Male 884
Pretty easy really. Marriage is a churchy thing conscripted by the state for taxation purposes. The churchy-type people have a right to it. They should consider a patent.
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Male 62
Ok i get the fact he`s the voice of his parents. But why must something be considered left wing? Why must people judge was is and what is not right? Most of the Problems society is facing is due to clashing religious opinions. can we not look past all the trivialities and not let people have the right to live the life they choose? We Canadians allow gays to marry and besides why should two people who love each other not be allowed to marry each other while two straights get divorced cause they cant stand the other person?
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Male 1,045
@ oldollie

"penis goes where?... aaaaahhhhh"

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Male 1,045
to do list if i ever make it to the supreme court:

keep marriage hetero-only
legalize weed(even tough i don`t use anymore)
delegalize abortions
free banana-nut muffin monday mandatory in all government dependencies.

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Male 15,832
He`s just parroting what his lefty parents have told him. If somebody told him what gays actually do, he`d probably throw up and run away from home.
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Female 4,028
Why is he living here, Flame? Uh, because he`s f-cking ten?

Didn`t this same story just happen - and was posted - a few weeks ago?

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Male 60
smart kid o_O
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Female 92
smart kid with a good heart.
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Male 1,220
So...basically he`s saying he isn`t allied with the United States...so why is he living here? Also, CNN is the worst news station I`ve ever seen. They put it on all the time at my work.
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Female 735
yeah, i was excited to hear someone was taking a stand, but watching the video just made me sick. seemed like more of a publicity stunt from the parents. im sure the kid believed that, but i dont think that stuff would come out of a 10-year-old boy`s mouth, sorry.
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Female 960
That kid is both very brave (he`s openly defying the norm AND supporting gay rights in the south) and well spoken.

Impressive. You go little man.

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Male 9,305
skywisejf, it`s wise not to post when wasted. Come back here when sober.
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Male 388
I agree, this kid is awesome.
I stopped standing for the pledge too but for different reasons.
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Female 465
Looks like he`s going to be a future ACLU lawyer.
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Male 373
at first i was like "wow bigass deal, a kid wont pledge allegance."
but then i read the description, very awesome.
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Male 18
Auburn, you`re dumb.

As Madest has so eloquently stated, this will be decided by the Supreme Court, not popular vote.

You say that Homosexuality is inherently dangerous as it could hypothetically lead to the extinction of the human species, if people were to decide en masse to be gay. You also claim homosexuality is a chemical imbalance, and as it is inherently dangerous this chemical imbalance should be reversed, thus neutralizing the danger. Well, dumbpoo, if homosexuality is a chemical imbalance, there is no danger of straight people becoming gay and therefore not adding to the gene pool. As there is no danger now, there is no need to reverse the chemical imbalance, or trample over the GUARANTEED CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS of these Americans.

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Male 1,195
Am I a bad person for laughing every time the kid spoke?
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Female 115
NERDS 2^2 EVER
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Female 158
I never said the pledge either and I`m not on the news! No fair :( But anyways. Well said kid. Well said.
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Male 8,302
> keith2
> why them and not non-pole-smoking non-carpet-munching potheads?

Well, you know, because even though we stoners don`t get treated right or equally... for some damn reason we don`t seem to give a drat... :-)

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Male 2,591
come on.. gays and lesbians? why them and not non-pole-smoking non-carpet-munching potheads?
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Female 665
DAMNIT, PEOPLE! I was expecting hundreds of "REPOST" messages. I am so disappointed in you all!
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Female 385
this kid is awesome
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Male 1,666
This kid is really eloquent for his age
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Female 582
@npdarren

Did you know that the "under God" part was added in the 1950`s to combat communism?

Now you know.

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Male 210
kid seems pretty intense.
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Male 541
one of three reasons for this (or all three): the kid`s gay, hates his country, or his dad forced him to do that for his 5 minutes of fame. (I`m thinking all three)
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Male 431
hmm. He would.
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Male 4,393
Ma`am, you can go jump off a bridge :P

cool gry

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Male 38
im going to pull out my attention whore card on the case your honor.
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Male 101
This kid seems a bit uptight. If he thinks our country is that bad he can just go grow up in a country where he doesn`t have the freedom he has.
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Female 1,677
What does going along with the crowd prove? Why do either of these things have to "prove" anything?
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Female 1,677
"It`s just a very attention whore-ish thing to do."

Sitting quietly while everybody else spouts off crap you don`t believe in/believe to be true is attention whorish? The mind boggles.

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Male 626
Parents definitely put him up to it and for those who say they do it too or it`s a good idea, what does it prove? It`s just a very attention whore-ish thing to do.
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Male 237
Opie, I was making the point that homosexuals can give power of attorney and that there are ways of getting similar benefits as marriage.

No where did I say that those are the only benefits.

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Male 478
im sure this kid knows what he is talking about. :rolls eyes:
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Male 124
well, if a kid won`t say the pledge of allegiance, i guess we`ll have to do whatever he says.
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Male 17,512
Kids parents put him up to this. I`d bet if he was questioned alone for awhile he`d admit he really doesn`t care.
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Female 1,589
After years being with IAB, I cannot believe something I submitted actually got accepted. O___O
*marks day on calender*
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Male 7,378
It is about right`s and you know it. If it weren`t it would never be in the courts. This whole debate will be moot when the Supreme Court decides not the voters.
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Female 1,441
We used to say the pledge in school till about the sixth grade, and then it completely dissapeared from the school district. I`m pretty sure my little brother has only said it about once in his life.
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Male 12,365
I am so tired of this completely pointless arguing over just one single word(*) that right now I`d support outlawing marriage entirely, for everyone.


* Don`t give me any crap about rights, because this isn`t about rights. It`s solely about the word `marriage`.

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Male 7,378
It`s a poem that`s drilled into our heads for a lot of years of our lives. It`s significance is mandated by our overlords and this kid understands that it should mean what it says.
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Male 12,365
waffle247:

[quote]legislation should just say "employ the right people for the job, and if you mention skin colour or sexual orientation in the interview you will be put in the gas chamber you racist scum bag!" errr... ok maybe not the bit about the gas chamber.[/quote]

"equal rights" legislation is exactly the opposite of that - it makes it a legal requirement to judge people on their sex, skin colour or whatever else is officially deemed important enough and to give preferential treatment to people of the "right" sex, skin colour or whatever. It is very explicitly opposed to judging people only on relevant ability.

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Male 606
This kid kinda sounds scripted.
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Female 98
i never say the pledge either.or stand up for it when everybody else in my classes do.
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Male 2,841
They make it sound like the pledge actually means something.
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Male 716
What is with all these kids not taking the pledge of alligiance?

Really... I understand his cause, but it`s like %50 of America is coming up with reasons not to take the pledge, and the other half is coming up with reasons to persecute them for it.

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Female 131
"Ma`am, you can go jump off a bridge" LMFAO!!! xD
The innocence in his voice made that so hilarious!!
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Male 47
I never say the pledge. I`m not going to be forced say there is a god just like a Christian wont be forced to say there isn`t one.
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Male 480
Repost.
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Male 15
HIGH IQ`S FTW. Oh... and LULz @ "A gaywad? Uh, what`s a gaywad?"
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Female 202
Good for him :)
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Female 77
Why does anyone care whether or not some kid says the pledge?
At my school, we shuffle up to our feet and mumble along and then plop back down to our seats. I don`t think I`ve said the full pledge in years, I always trail off halfway through.
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Male 25,417
Maybe its just attention seeking :)
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Female 2,289
*High Five* to the boy!
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Female 195
It`s sad that 4th grade and 12th grade are exactly the same. I don`t stand either, for the same reasons. I get poo for it, too. Good to see I`m not the only one.
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Female 96
You go, little man.
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Male 3,431
He pledged allegiance to the fags of the United States of America.
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Male 503
feck you naysayers, congratulations to the boy.
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Male 2,148
Who cares what a 10-year-old does? His parents are prolly telling him not to pledge anyway.
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Male 2,076
Anyone else think that the kid had the demeanor and voice of a male Lisa Simpson?
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Female 4,039
Bodicia - please re-read my comment (even though you hate it). I was addressing the term "environmental factors". That`s it.

I think you are absolutely right about opponents of gay marriage making it all about sex - that`s the best argument I`ve heard all day.

While I guess it was a poor choice of words I was merely using a child abuser as an example of an enivornmental factor. Many of them equate their present abusing with their own past abuse.

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Male 7,378
"that dad looked soooo smug"
-----------------
That dad deserves to be smug. His genes created a little brainiac that has the ability to see the hypocrisy in a poem that celebrates all Americans "liberty". I`d bet that smugness is concealing a beaming pride.
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Male 377
What is it with americans and pledging allegiance to a flag anyway? I mean it seems a bit weird to have it in schools, if someone suggested we do the same in the UK they`d probably get laughed out the room.
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Female 4,039
Almighty, you`re being literal and I`m being hypothetical, that`s all. I guess I shoulda put a winky face in my comment.
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Female 91
I`ll never pledge allegiance again because its mind control.
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Female 1,677
People have a problem with them because they think what they do is gross. But sex is not the biggest part of a relationship. Seeing any of you drating your opposite-sex partner would probably be gag-inducing to most people as well, but you`re allowed to be married and practice all the disgusting sexual things you like with a nice legal stamp of approval. Hypocrisy? I think so. Disgusting judgemental superiority complex? I think so.

Just because you don`t like what people "do", that doesn`t mean you should be allowed to deny/restrict their rights. And yes, separating marriage and civil unions is indeed restriction and denial of rights. Based on nothing more than some old lame book full of offensive bullpoo that somehow keeps wrecking people`s lives two thousand years later. Live and let live you douchebags.

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Female 1,677
"but I think "environmental factor" is a cop out for not exercising one`s free will."

One`s free will... to change who they are in order to be part of the status quo? Yeah, because people who don`t live their lives exactly as you do should have to repress themselves and change their natural inclinations because some people think their sex lives are `icky`.

The fact is, homosexuals are not hurting anybody. They cannot be compared to child abusers or criminals or whatever other crap you people are spewing. They don`t need to change, because their actions are not harmful.

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Male 670
that dad looked soooo smug
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Male 4,290
[quote]one who was hiding the fact he was gay might be less likely to challenge the fact that he/she may be overlooked for the job.[/quote]

Also known as a confidence issue.

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Male 14,331
@Edgarska19: "well, i hope for the good of this country, that he never has to pledge allegiance in his life."
??????????????
Yes, because if they allowed homosexual marrige your tiny brain may explode and all the kittens and puppys of the world would spontaniously combust.
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Female 4,039
I did, Almighty - one who was hiding the fact he was gay might be less likely to challenge the fact that he/she may be overlooked for the job.
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Male 4,290
[quote]Or was it because they were less likely to be sued for discrimination? [/quote]

Didn`t you read what Lando wrote? Both actors pretended to be gay. They didn`t pick the gay one over the straight one, they picked the "out" one over the one who said he was gay but still in the closet.

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Female 4,039
"Environmental factors" is a tough one. A human being`s free will should be able to overcome an enviromental factor. For instance, an abused child does not automatically grow into an abuser. Some do (or use that as a reason for their choice to become abusive), but some don`t. Not that I am comparing homosexuality to child abuse, but I think "environmental factor" is a cop out for not exercising one`s free will.
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Male 254
lol, west fork is 10 minutes from where i live.

welcome to: you are now leaving west fork

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Male 156
"I don`t see why it has to be 100% one or the other, though I think "choice" is a very poor word to use for "environmental factors."

Exactly. It`s a loaded question and neither of the choices given are in anyway correct.

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Male 1,045
well, i hope for the good of this country, that he never has to pledge allegiance in his life.
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Female 158
Awwwww he doesn`t get that reality isn`t made up of guidlines or something, that`s really cute. I think it`s really good that he`s standing up for what he belives in, and in a really unharmful way.
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Male 740
in all honesty, good for him
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Male 410
Wow bravo to this kid, he is more aware than most adults I know. Stay strong little buddy, I salute you.
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Female 4,039
"Employers were more likely to hire the one who was "out" and proud, presumably because he had more confidence."

Or was it because they were less likely to be sued for discrimination?

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Male 764
>>Actually I read a study, which I think was done in the UK, where actors pretended to be gay job applicants.

One had a button that said "Gay and Proud" or something and was very open, the other was "in the closet" and admitted being gay but said it was a secret.

Employers were more likely to hire the one who was "out" and proud, presumably because he had more confidence. <<

I would imagine so that`s why i said if you were denied there`s plenty of jobs where that type of personality is more desirable besides your case and not to stereo type a greeter, hair salon, fashion/retail.

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Male 3,842

mischeif954
Male, 18-29, Southern US
24 Posts Tuesday, November 17, 2009 8:11:24 AM
If your denied a job, because your gay most likely your TOO flamboyant and wouldn`t be conducive to the environment similarly as someone who had some other type of overwhelming personality.

Actually I read a study, which I think was done in the UK, where actors pretended to be gay job applicants.

One had a button that said "Gay and Proud" or something and was very open, the other was "in the closet" and admitted being gay but said it was a secret.

Employers were more likely to hire the one who was "out" and proud, presumably because he had more confidence.

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Female 15,763
"Is homosexuality a chemical imbalance? A condition in the brain that causes a person to act against biology and procreation.
OR????

Is it a choice."

I don`t see why it has to be 100% one or the other, though I think "choice" is a very poor word to use for "environmental factors."

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Male 156
"I want to know what everyone thinks. For real.
Is homosexuality a chemical imbalance? A condition in the brain that causes a person to act against biology and procreation.

OR????

Is it a choice.

Remember Occam`s Razor while you answer."

Haha, how to load a question. It`s like saying "do you still beat your wife, yes or no?"

Especially since there is no scientist worth their salt saying it`s a chemical imbalance. Infact there is no real concensus at all.

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Male 7,817
this is a video version of an old post isnt it?
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Male 1,381
lol it says "liberty and justice"

not equality.

oops, too bad. operationally defining "justice" to your own liking? nice. :-p

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Female 15,763
"Now with that said there are a few things like deciding whether or not to resuscitate and/or keep a person on life support but that would fall to next of kin so if the person is open enough to want to be married hopefully the next of kin will decide based on what their "Partner" wants. Oh and you can get a medical power of attorney saying your "partner" makes medical decisions."

If you think those are the only rights given in marriage, you need to do some research.

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Male 764
>>The Federal Marriage Amendment (FMA) (also referred to by proponents as the Marriage Protection Amendment) was a proposed amendment to the United States Constitution which would have limited marriage in the United States to unions of one man and one woman. The FMA would also have prevented judicial extension of marriage rights to same-sex or other unmarried couples, as well as preventing polygamy.<<

isnt it this you idiot. Look I dont jus say I`m right I show it.
PS even with bad sentence structure guess I showed you.

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Male 36
i think hes gay
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Male 237
Just one little flaw in one person`s argument (I didn`t feel like reading every single post).

Gay people can get a power of attorney. All it does is say who specifically gets to make decisions for someone else in case they are unable...married or not

I could give power of attorney to my mailman even though that wouldn`t be too smart because he doesn`t know me well enough to make decisions in my place.

Now with that said there are a few things like deciding whether or not to resuscitate and/or keep a person on life support but that would fall to next of kin so if the person is open enough to want to be married hopefully the next of kin will decide based on what their "Partner" wants. Oh and you can get a medical power of attorney saying your "partner" makes medical decisions.

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Male 764
First off your retarded you haven`t said anything substantial just insult people 2nd of all if they are not trying to change a law then whats the argument? Sorry I`m not an English major I`m a computer engineer major. What are they trying to do then please tell us since your so wise.
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Male 516
Everyone look at the flippin` annoying Dad while the kid`s talking anytime.

He`s always got his eyebrows arched outwards, continuously looks back and forth, and has the worst half-smile.

I hate people like that. Trying to garner sympathy and respect from others by putting on a facade in public.

I also want to smack the sh*t outta that little kid. He`s destined to become a self-conceited little geek ball who has no respect for anything that he doesn`t agree with.

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Male 377
I agree with mmp2064. It`s like most of western politics, we can`t sort out our own problems but hey let`s go tell other people how to fix theirs!
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Male 377
@madest - that`s why inbreeding is banned in most of the world I guess. :P
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Male 7,378
"Madest I think you wrong they are trying to change the law to remove the man to woman part of it."
-----------
Clearly you don`t know what you`re talking about and you`re not very good at sentence structure. I suggest more education.
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Male 27
of course the numbers are uneven, but statistically it still doesn`t add up. all I`m saying is dump money and rally against gay marriage once your own house is in order CHURCH! Their house is on fire and they want to ban birthday candles thinking that will help.
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Male 377
don`t work too hard auburn... and watch out for the guy in the cubical next to you... mwhahahaha! :P
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Male 10,338
Time to go to work. Bye all.
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Male 377
LOL @ mmp2064. Down with gays, up with pay checks? oooh..er missus! :P
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Male 10,338
Never said you were wrong madest. I respect your opinion. I am not trying to change anyone.
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Male 56
mmp2064, I`d like to know how many people there are that are adopted by homosexuals or raised by homosexuals, compared to those whose parents are heterosexual. I`m sure the numbers are a bit uneven.
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Male 27
I have had a psychotherapy practice for almost 15 years. Percentage of people seeking treatment because of homo parents or homo adoption? 0% Percentage of people seeking treatment due to divorce? 60% Thanks heteros!
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Female 4,039
A ten year old kid is embroiled a gay rights issue? Really? I think that`s totally f-d up and sad.
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Male 377
@mischief - I used to work with a gay accountant who was always making jokes that were a bit erm.. riskay I guess. Used to make me laugh a lot. Especially the one where he`d ask random people if they`d like a couple of his grapes he kept under his desk to suck on while he did their paperwork. (They really were fruit btw) I can understand that being seen as non-productive, but it made my day go faster having someone with that kind of sense of humour in the office; even if I did sometimes press the wrong buttons cause I was laughing so much.
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Male 764
Madest I think you wrong they are trying to change the law to remove the man to woman part of it.
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Male 56
zarbogres, minority groups is way too general.
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Male 377
LOL auburnjunky. There are times when political correctness goes a bit wrong but it levels out. legislation should never say "employ 1 black person for every 1 white and 1 asian for every 1 gay person" legislation should just say "employ the right people for the job, and if you mention skin colour or sexual orientation in the interview you will be put in the gas chamber you racist scum bag!" errr... ok maybe not the bit about the gas chamber.
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Male 764
If your denied a job, because your gay most likely your TOO flamboyant and wouldn`t be conducive to the environment similarly as someone who had some other type of overwhelming personality.
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Female 2,249
lol thanks mischeif...

but i just feel like... if two people love eachother who has the right to tell that their love is `wrong`? Why should gender/age/race/anything matter in love?

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Male 7,378
auburnjunkie, Read the constitution, you`ll see that I`m correct.
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Male 42
you go kid :)
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Male 10
Regardless of what you believe, there is no excuse for allowing the majority to decide upon basic rights of a minority group (What is more basic than wanting to create a family with someone you love?)
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Male 764
>>I agree. I mean how can you compare being osterized by your own family and loved ones in addition to everyone else to the other struggle?<<

LMAO Dang first off a lot of gay people don`t get osterized by their family and seeing how there`s a population of gays in the US and/or people who aren`t bigots i don`t see how you could be ostericised by everyone else.

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Male 56
The same can apply to job interviews with people who are mentally challenged or physically disabled, yet there is not such an uproar when that is brought up.
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Male 10,338
LOL waffle.

Maybe they can be added to affermative action legislation so employers will be afraid to NOT hire them like it is with black and asians right now.

KIDDING.

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Male 377
thor82 has a point, black people had to put up with a lot more prejudice over the years that homo`s have. However if you go into a job interview and are obviously gay then you are statistically less likely to be given the job; unless you`re applying to be on x-factor... then I guess it`s the other way around. (sorry couldn`t resist the stereotype :) )
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Male 10,338
Love doesn`t = marriage and marriage doesn`t = love. Lot`s of people in love never get married and they are fine with it. Also, lots of people who aren`t in love get married for tax reasons and to gain rights they wouldn`t have otherwise had.
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Male 764
Well that was a very good answer lol didn`t expect. But the point I was trying to make was that people are a lot less helpless as people are making them seem to be and have more control over their lives then their genes do.
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Male 10,338
Okay madest. You just want to be able to call someone a name, so You win. There is no point.

@sprinks: I don`t think it WAS a waste of money. Prop 8 has already failed. It`s better to live with a loss and learn to move on that to keep losing and keep being upset. They could always find another solution.

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Female 2,249
It honestly depends on the situation. If the man and his wife are constantly fighting all the time and all love is gone then I would say yes. If he he still loves the wife I would say no.
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Male 377
@auburnjunky - nah what I`m getting at is I don`t know why people are gay. I don`t know why some people are jerks either. People are just people, if they aren`t hurting people then let `em be.
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Male 56
So if you compare the struggles of gays to blacks then your saying gays have had to deal with denial of voting rights, denial of property ownership rights, denial of equity in education, denial of access to public facilities, denial of access to businesses, denial of equal access to public transportation, etc?
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Male 764
Actually you are trying to change the laws to take the gender specification part out, because they already have the same constitutional protections we have why cant you understand that?
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Male 764
ok mushie i got a question for you. Do you think a man who`s married with kids should leave his family if he feels he`s fallen in love with someone else?
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Male 7,378
auburnjunkie, How many times do I need to point out your stupidity?
------------------
Nobody is trying to change any laws. They are trying to get the same constitutional protections that you have. They pay taxes too dimwit.
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Male 663
>>>Mischeif, i`m still asking the same question I asked psychgeek, how can you compare the struggle of homosexuals to the struggle of blacks<<<

I agree. I mean how can you compare being osterized by your own family and loved ones in addition to everyone else to the other struggle?

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Male 2,306
Now if we reversed roles..."I AM NEITHER FOR NOR AGAINST STRAIGHT MARRIAGE! I JUST HAVE A PROBLEM WITH HETEROSEXUALS ASKING FOR LAWS TO BE CHANGED OVER AND OVER AND WASTING TAX MONEY THAT COULD BE USED FOR OTHER THINGS WHEN IT IS APPARENT THAT IT WILL NEVER PASS."

If you just change that up a bit you realize that uh...ya know, you`re a drating idiot. People of the `gay` orientation have been around since...forever, and probably before all recorded human history. But, you don`t want to give them equal rights. You think that is a waste of money.

[email protected]$$

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Female 2,249
Personally I don`t think it`s a choice. After all, you can never really choose who you fall in love with, it just happens. Whether it be someone of the same or opposite sex.
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Male 10,338
So being gay is a choice in some people, and some people are predisposed to it?

I think that is what waffle is saying.

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Male 10,338
Either let it happen, or don`t. If gays lose the vote drop it. If they win the vote, yay for them. Stop wasting my tax dollars to keep losing votes.

I AM NEITHER FOR NOR AGAINST GAY MARRIAGE! I JUST HAVE A PROBLEM WITH HOMOSEXUALS ASKING FOR LAWS TO BE CHANGED OVER AND OVER AND WASTING TAX MONEY THAT COULD BE USED FOR OTHER THINGS WHEN IT IS APPARENT THAT IT WILL NEVER PASS.

Sorry for caps.

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Male 764
Why cant I use the criminal argument its a very valid when trying to disprove something simply show a case where its not true, mathematicians been doin it for years. Gay is a choice at then end of the day you control what you do.
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Male 377
"There have been studies that have found that some people are predisposed to violence. "

Yes but there are also a whole bunch of people who are violent and don`t show the extra gene. DNA doesn`t explain everything.

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Male 1,297
ballsy little kid. wonder if the media is calling him gay yet?
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Male 377
I didn`t answer the question because I don`t think the answer matters. Either way doesn`t change that kid was right in his interpretation of ideals vs law in the USA.
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Male 10,338
I can`t madest. They should. I don`t care either way.
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Male 56
explain mischeif
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Male 10,338
mischief, you can`t say either way if it is a choice or not, and you can`t use the criminals argument.

There have been studies that have found that some people are predisposed to violence. It`s a chemical imbalance in their brains, Lots or people have it, they just either suppress it, or have it treated chemically.

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Male 39
im not pro gay, but this warmed my heart because its very rare to see someone committed to something and to actually execute what they believe in.
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Male 7,378
Here auburnjunkie I`ll prove you`re stupid:

Explain why two consenting adults can`t be married without bringing up the bible and support your argument with the Constitution.

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Male 422
"Nobody answered my question. Scroll down and read it.

It really is either, or."

No it`s not. It`s never either, or. The world isn`t black/white good/evil ect. pp. Everything`s complex and hard to understand. So my answer to you is: Stop asking suggestive questions.

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Male 764
People are not born gay flat out period if you say they are you also say criminals are born criminals and well be shoving a nice little double edged sword in yourself. Like I said in another post its like believing in God but saying the devil doesn`t exist
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Male 10,338
Yeah. Good point mushie.
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Male 377
@opiebreath - I didn`t know that, I wished that was still the case... need barf bag urgently. the price of freedom, hey?
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Female 2,249
maybe you`re right auburnjunky... but there are also a lot of straight couples choosing not to have children, wouldn`t that be against human biology too if the whole point is for us to keep reproducing
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Male 10,338
I don`t think I am better than anyone. Inferiority complex much?
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Male 10,338
Nobody answered my question. Scroll down and read it.

It really is either, or.

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Male 7,378
No you`re wrong because you think you`re better than they are. That simple.
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Male 764
LOL thor i know what people dont realize its hard to get ppl on your side when your so busy pissing them off comparing your minor struggles to their major struggles calling, the side your trying to convince brainwashed and ignorant and to top it all making false claims.
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Female 15,763
"mushie, being gay is against human biology is it not?"

Then explain to me why animals are extensively documented to exhibit same-sex behaviors and why you have a prostate buried deep in your ass with many nerve endings and many pleasure spots.

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Male 56
Auburn, that`s what i`m saying, but I still don`t understand why people compare the two
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Male 10,338
So madest, just because I am straight, I am wrong?
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Female 1,682
Here is my opinion: Gays are normal, there is nothing wrong with them, i think they should be allowed to marry because honestly them being allowed to marry will not affect anyone.
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Male 377
@auburnjunky - so is being stupid but some people never learn.
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Male 10,338
mushie, being gay is against human biology is it not?
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Male 764
Well usually when someone blames their behaviors as inherent more than a choice it gives off the vibe of something bad do you not agree? Do you go around saying I love my girlfriend because I was born that way or just simply say you love her?
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Male 10,338
Thor, You can`t.

Blacks had it worse. They still do.

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Male 7,378
"madest, I will not insult anyone here. Just insulting people because they have a different opinion than you, makes your opinion invalid."
----------------
I insulted you because you`re stupid. Not because of your opinion. You have no ability to explain your reasoning. You are the hate these tax paying Americans are trying to overcome. You are not better than them because you have straight sex. Face it.
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Female 2,249
o.O

dude... being gay isn`t a `disease` or `abnormality` its just how you are... its like being born with brown hair, or blue eyes.

It doesnt make you better or worse than anyone else, its just a part of who you are.

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Male 377
Who cares why? If you want to - go for it. That`s why it`s called freedom.
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Male 10,338
Opie, lesbianism is beautiful and should be allowed, it`s male gay sex we don`t want. It`s ugly.. lol.

KIDDING KIDDING!

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Male 10,338
I want to know what everyone thinks. For real.

Is homosexuality a chemical imbalance? A condition in the brain that causes a person to act against biology and procreation.

OR????

Is it a choice.

Remember Occam`s Razor while you answer.

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Male 56
Mischeif, i`m still asking the same question I asked psychgeek, how can you compare the struggle of homosexuals to the struggle of blacks
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Male 422
1sty I would like to see auburnjunkys sources, not yours and 2ndly i didn`t say anything but personal opinion (which hadn`t to do anything with the homo-marriage thing) so my source is: Gluggr(2009).
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Female 15,763
"Opiebreath and if homosexuality doesn`t need to be cured why bring it up as an argument that people are born gay like you were a victim of some abnormality?"

I`m not sure how you make the connection between it being inherent and it being bad... melanin count is something you`re born with but no one is trying to say that is bad. I`m sure we all know that most human behaviors are neither 100% environment, nor are they 100% genetic. Honestly, to me it doesn`t matter why I love my girlfriend. I love her. Why does everyone care so much what kind of genital she has? Gender isn`t even binary to begin with. Neither is sex, for that matter.

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Male 10,338
madest, I will not insult anyone here. Just insulting people because they have a different opinion than you, makes your opinion invalid. Keep insulting so we can continue to not listen, or care.
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Male 56
CleverChan I completely agree, i really don`t believe that any 10 year old kid can have the cognitive ability to come up with his or her own opinion about this. It is almost always that this kind of opinion is influenced by a parental figure.
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Male 764
Show me your source and ill show you mine =D
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Male 377
LOL @ madest; now my keyboard is covered in coffee!
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Male 764
LOL I love it phych geek every time some1 brings up the whole born gay thing and someone with a working mind who doesn`t buy into that garbage has a valid rebuttal they have nothing to say, and to Opiebreath and if homosexuality doesn`t need to be cured why bring it up as an argument that people are born gay like you were a victim of some abnormality?
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Female 345
This kid has balls, I`ll give him that. I just hope their his balls and not his parents, too often parents that lean too far to the left or too far to the right drill political viewpoints into their children.
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Male 7,378
"Why are you insulting me because of my opinion? Not very equal rights are we?"
--------------------
I insult all retards equally.
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Male 422
"No mischeif. Murderers have a chemical imbalance in their brains. They have medication for it but some don`t take it. As a result they murder.

Gays have a chemical imbalance in their brains (as psych said). They do not have a medication for it, so they have nothing to take. As a result, they have buttsecks."

And could I get your sources on that? In an argument you need sources for your claimes, if they aren`t personal optinions. Just being the loudest one doesn`t help.

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Male 377
@ auburnjunky - equal rights doesn`t mean you have to be nice about it... do you have an IQ?
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Male 10,338
True opiebreath. I agree.
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Male 2,586
I agree with this in principle - I think unless a country stands for what you believe in, then you should not have to feel obligated to pledge allegiance to it. The counter to this argument are immigrants - those people that say *I`m `x` religion and I disapprove of how this country rams Christmas down my throat, therefore I am going to campaign to change it.* In which case go home! - If you don`t like the way a country is run and you are from another, shoo!

So for gay/ lesbian marriages, all the best to them - love is love after all. HOWEVER, to all those people comparing it to black civil rights, again I agree but eventuallya line is going to be reached... First it was women, then blacks, then gays... (I`m not good with history so forgive me if the order is wrong)... What`s next?! Bestiality? Paedophilia?!

I know these are the extremes and I was in no way comparing them to the ethnic minorities/ gays etc but everyone with a desire is going to campaign one day to legalise it - wh

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Female 1,798
woo @ madest!!! i couldn`t agree more :)
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Male 10,338
I don`t care if homosexuals marry. It doesn`t affect me either way. I just don`t like it that we are using tax dollars and legislators time or things that are either a choice (my opinion) or a chemical imbalance (psych`s opinion).
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Male 422
Thanks @FitzySpyder for the explanation. I also think it fits the USA perfectly, because of their history (I mean this in the most positive way possible), but it would strike me as wrong to do it where I live. Maybe because everybody thinks "To hell with my country, where`s my money?" But that`s another discussion ;)
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Female 15,763
"Do we want to change laws to help serial killers, or pedophiles? They have a chemical imbalance as well."

Last I checked being homosexual didn`t inherently hurt anyone, nor did it have f*ckall to do with you.

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Male 10,338
Hmmm madest. Why are you insulting me because of my opinion? Not very equal rights are we?
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Female 1,798
why not, auburnjunky? why not allow them to marry? is it going to hurt you if that happens? is it going to mean the death of the human race and the end of life as we know it? no. all it means is that they get equal treatment.

the VAST majority of homosexuals are proud of who they are, as well they should be.

one day, have no fear, society will be open-minded enough to see that they deserve equal treatment, and they will get it :) i know it`s going to happen, so i`m not too worried about it :) and here is where i end my role in this debate, because it`s pointless and we`re just going in circles. have a nice day :)

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Male 377
how about pledging allegiance to the human race then?
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Male 10,338
No mischeif. Murderers have a chemical imbalance in their brains. They have medication for it but some don`t take it. As a result they murder.

Gays have a chemical imbalance in their brains (as psych said). They do not have a medication for it, so they have nothing to take. As a result, they have buttsecks.

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Male 7,378
auburnjunkie. You are a redneck. The world doesn`t need you to understand. Here`s to all your daughters marrying closeted gay guys because of your closed mind.

The 14th amendment to the constitution endows all Americans equal rights. No part of the constitution allows the majority to vote on the rights of minorities.

This will be worked out in court. The supreme court will have the final answer and this kid will will say the pledge proudly.
I find it rather funny that heterosexuals need their sexing sanctioned by the government and feel the need to deny others the same.

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Male 119
Gluggr, you are pledging your allegience to your country, not to your government or anything. You are pledging to keep the country safe, to defend it from things that may harm it, in some cases that includes the government of the country itself
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Male 10,338
They want laws changed to serve what they say is a chemical imbalance. Either that, or they want laws changed to serve a behavior they choose. Either way, what they want is not feasible.
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Male 764
No i`m sure homosexuals are products of there environments like everyone else do murderers wake up one day and say i think ill kill my neighbor?
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Male 377
LOL - so what you`re implying is that if everyone was gay, you`d do it too? OK. Now that explains a lot.
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Male 10,338
Do we want to change laws to help serial killers, or pedophiles? They have a chemical imbalance as well.
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Male 764
Auburn that`s one of the most annoying thing about homosexuality they act like its some disease they were born with. If your gay be gay and be proud, you didn`t see blacks saying the melanin in our skin make us black. They said we are we are and deserve to be treated equally.
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Male 422
I wouldn`t plegde allegiance at all. To me the whole concept strange. I see how this is you culture, but I`d never pledge allegiance to my country, ever. The country`s here for my sake, not the other way round.
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Female 1,798
@ auburnjunky: they CHOOSE to not be treated equally? seriously? so they just wake up one morning and say "hmm, I`m feeling rather gay today, so I think I`ll deny myself the right to marry." come on, your argument is ridiculous.

as of right now, we have no way to "reverse homosexuality", and frankly i don`t see any reason why we should. they`re not hurting anyone, they just want equal treatment under the law. why is that so much to ask?

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Male 10,338
lol
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Male 119
"What happens if everyone suddenly became gay? END OF THE HUMAN RACE!"

Or some scientists with test tubes start getting really rich really fast.

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Female 15,763
"Homosexual rights is not the same as civil rights. Not even close. It`s about biology. What happens if everyone suddenly became gay? END OF THE HUMAN RACE! Being homosexual is inherently dangerous."

AAAAHAHAHAHAHA!

Okay... okay I feel better now. I really don`t need to be in here debating this.

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Male 119
No auburnjunky, you lose. This debate was going on whether you got involved or not. And people "just trying to start crap" always lose. end of story.

Now on to the debate at hand, I say let them marry, it`s not going to hurt you any.

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Male 10,338
Homosexual rights is not the same as civil rights. Not even close. It`s about biology. What happens if everyone suddenly became gay? END OF THE HUMAN RACE! Being homosexual is inherently dangerous.

Okay. There you go. Not debating. Just stating my opinion.

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Male 764
Pshych geek do you even understand what denying rights means like I`ve pointed out several times same sex marriage is not allowed whether your gay or straight.
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Female 1,798
lol @ waffle. :)
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Male 377
@kairobert - good question. I pledge allegiance to my pay check and the barman who serves me beer even though I can`t stand up.
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Male 250
I don`t see wha the huge deal is about not reciting the pledge. Far as I see it, the pledge is completely optional, as the whole point of a pledge is it`s a promise to a person/group. I dare say that, ironically, refusing to pledge allegiance more patriotic than just going through the motions.
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Male 10,338
Why can`t people have their opinion? Why does it always have to be a debate? My opinion is this.

I think being a homosexual is a choice. If it isn`t a choice and it really is a chemical imbalance, then it should be treated as such. Find medication to correct it or reverse it. If they want to say they are gay because something is wrong with their brains, then they should want treatment.

People should not be given rights based on lifestyle choice, or chemical imbalance. Minorities are given rights and protected and this is a good thing, even though it is not what our founding fathers envisioned when they created this country. They created our laws based on the precept that all men were created equal, and they are. If people choose to be not equal, or have a chemical imbalance that makes them think they are not equal, then they have chosen to not be able to do some of the things that everyone else can, or they need to be cured of their misfunctioning brain problem.

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Male 56
PyschGeek, please tell me you didn`t compare the struggle of homosexuals to the struggle of Blacks.
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Female 535
All the crazy-making issues aside, good on the kid for sticking to his guns.

...and do u guys really have to say the pledge of allegiance every day in school?!

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Female 1,798
oh really? and what exact rights do they have? opiebreath has already pointed out that a "civil union" does not grant the same rights as a marriage. i have already pointed out that they are denied power of attorney over their partners. they are often denied the right to adopt, even though legally they should be able to. i won`t even get started on the discrimination they face when it comes to employment and just everyday life--look in the news and you`ll find plenty of stories about homosexuals getting beaten and killed simply for holding hands with their partners, or for being openly gay.

how in the world does this translate to "they have the same rights as everyone else"? i don`t think i`m the closed-minded one here.

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Male 1,623
Why pledge allegiance to a flag?
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Male 764
Psych geek the problem is that your being close minded to understanding the fact that they do have the same rights as straight people, there`s no way to win a fight if you cant understand what your fighting for.
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Female 15,763
"What happens if it actually passed a vote? Do you think it would be brought forth to be voted on again? NO!

THE PEOPLE VOTED NO! LEAVE IT AT THAT!"

This is exactly why we are a democratic republic, NOT a straight democracy. If that bothers you then either work on changing it or move somewhere else.

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Male 764
Feeling like a second class citizen and being one two different things, on top of that how could you ever deny the right for someone to care and love its impossible. Yea they cant marry i think they should but at the same time technically noone else can so your not 2nd class, and studies show that it possible to be born a criminal you agree with that too?
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Male 377
@auburnjunky - so if the people voted YES on kiddy porn being legalised you`d say leave it at that then? you`re sick! :P

the problem with democracy is that it doesn`t always protect the minority.

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Female 1,798
auburnjunky: if your goal was to make yourself look like an immature, ignorant, egocentric a**, then you`re right, you win.

like i told mischeif, you need to look at it from their point of view. how would you feel if you couldn`t marry the woman you love? you`d be pretty pissed and would be pushing for a legislation change, and if you say "no" you`re lying just to say it.

think of how hard Blacks had to work to get their civil rights...homosexuals are now fighting the same type of struggle. society moves in cycles, and one day they WILL get the same rights as straight people. i just hope i live to see that day.

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Female 1,798
oh really, mischeif? how would you feel if you were denied the right to marry and to care for your loved one? you would DEFINITELY feel like a second-class citizen, and don`t lie and say "no i wouldn`t."

you need to open your eyes and see it from their point of view. jeez you are so incredibly closed-minded.

and no, homosexuality is not a choice. there are different theories as to the cause, but there are a HUGE number of studies showing that a gay man`s brain chemistry is "wired" the same way as a straight woman`s, and the same goes for lesbians--their brain chemistry is "wired" like that of a straight man`s. is that a choice? nope.

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Male 10,338
First of all, I win. Yes I was just trying to start crap. I don`t care either way. THAT BEING SAID, the people have voted. They don`t want it. This part is real. I don`t understand why a group, be it Homosexuals, or not, continue to ask for votes on things. If they ask, and the people vote no, then they failed. STOP ASKING FOR LEGISLATION ON THINGS OVER AND OVER. It seems like they do this in the hope people will vote yes so they won`t have to hear about it anymore.

What happens if it actually passed a vote? Do you think it would be brought forth to be voted on again? NO!

THE PEOPLE VOTED NO! LEAVE IT AT THAT!

Don`t forget, I don`t care either way. If they want a few words changed in a law, fine by me. Doesn`t affect me. Wastes tax dollars yes, but it doesn`t affect me.

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Female 15,763
"bitching for the sake of bitching. If you really want to be married for love, you will do whatever it takes to do so, be that travel to Oregon or Massachusetts. What`s so hard about that?"

It`s not just traveling, you would have to move there and legally, on the local and federal level, change your permanent residence to that state. Then if you went to any other state that marriage would be null.

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Male 764
Educated enough to know its not a choice?? and 2nd class citizens? Where?? Yea they should be able to adopt and marry but don`t call them 2nd class cuz that is so not the case.
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Male 1,646
"bitching for the sake of bitching. If you really want to be married for love, you will do whatever it takes to do so, be that travel to Oregon or Massachusetts. What`s so hard about that?"

you sir, are an idiot. im straight, but i sure as hell wouldn`t want to travel somewhere to get married. what if i wanted my family present, then we would have to travel unnecessarily cross country, when if it was legal country wide, then we could plan it in the place i would want it. all my friends and family could be present.

what people fail to do that really annoys me is they dont put themselves into other people`s shoes, just look at it from someone elses perspective.

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Female 15,763
A lot of states have other versions, like civil unions, which try to grant all the same rights but solely because "civil union" is not the same term as "marriage," in the eyes of the federal law they cannot receive the same rights. About 400 (this might be out of date) rights are federally given. Until a state changes the term to marriage and includes same sex couples, the same rights are not alloted.
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Female 15,763
"They can be married in the eyes of the law. I don`t understand I guess. There are many states they can be married in. What`s the problem? Were there not gays and lesbians until about 5 years ago? Why must they try to change law now? They were okay 6 years ago. It`s all just bitching for the sake of bitching. If you really want to be married for love, you will do whatever it takes to do so, be that travel to Oregon or Massachusetts. What`s so hard about that?"

About six years ago all the states went around redefining the legal term marriage to make it distinctly between one man and one woman. This took away about 1400 legal rights from homosexual marriages, big one and little ones. The rights even branch into adoption, taxes, insurance, family, and death. I believe there are now 6 states that have changed it back to granting the same amount of legal rights by calling it marriage. A lot of states have other versions, like civil unions, which try to grant all the same rights

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Female 1,798
auburnjunky, i seriously think you`re saying this closed-minded bull just to start an argument. speaks to your maturity level, doesn`t it? do us all a favor and grow up a little bit, and open your eyes.
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Female 1,798
"Also, gay`s and lesbians have just as many rights as everyone else. What they want it MORE RIGHTS than everyone else. They can marry. They can do anything a straight person can. Why do they still bitch about rights?"

****
where the hell have you been? under a rock? gays can marry in maybe only 2-3 states in this country. they can`t take power of attorney over their partners should something happen. they are often denied the ability to adopt children, even though they`re legally supposed to be able to. they are treated like second-class citizens over something they have no control over (i think we are all educated enough to agree it`s not simply a "lifestyle choice").

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Male 1,646
very sweet kid. he`s gonna be alittle activist when he gets older.
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Male 10,338
They can be married in the eyes of the law. I don`t understand I guess. There are many states they can be married in. What`s the problem? Were there not gays and lesbians until about 5 years ago? Why must they try to change law now? They were okay 6 years ago. It`s all just bitching for the sake of bitching. If you really want to be married for love, you will do whatever it takes to do so, be that travel to Oregon or Massachusetts. What`s so hard about that?

Next gays and lesbians will be added to affermative action legislation. ;)

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Female 1,798
I say good for the kid. Maybe this next generation will be open-minded enough to see that homosexuals deserve all the same rights straight people have.

and for those of you who think marriage should be between a man and woman: straight people can get married in Vegas in 5 minutes by a man dressed in a mustard-stained Elvis costume. I think we can stop with the "sanctity of marriage" crap.

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Male 377
@auburnjunky - homo`s want the right to marry each other; basically they want the marriage bill changed so that it doesn`t mention the sex of the people involved and they can be married in the eyes of the law.

@opiebreath - you made me chuckle. :)

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Male 10,338
Okay, don`t. I know mischief.
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Female 15,763
"Also, gay`s and lesbians have just as many rights as everyone else. What they want it MORE RIGHTS than everyone else."

...

I`m not even going to start.

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Male 764
Auburn what you don`t seem to understand is that in America if your not pro gay your brainwashed.
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Male 223
Welcome to the world kiddo.
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Male 10,338
Also, gay`s and lesbians have just as many rights as everyone else. What they want it MORE RIGHTS than everyone else. They can marry. They can do anything a straight person can. Why do they still bitch about rights?
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Male 10,338
He`s a kid that is being defiant just to be defiant. Nothing to see here. Move on people.
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Male 377
@McGovern1981 - yeah I have been I was just kidding. :P
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Male 24
A few comments in the video irked me ("grown up with several people, including gay friends", "A bright child... skipped the 3rd to the 5th grade"), still it`s rather interesting to hear him explain his position.

I feel he isn`t old enough to truly grasp the situation completely, nor do I feel he avoided the "brain-washing".

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Male 4,290
Nice one kid. Good to see someone is stopping to think about what they`re saying when they make the pledge.
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Male 764
LOL who cares if he pledges or not, I don`t pledge for religious reasons, and what equal rights is is that gays don`t have?
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Male 14,331
VV LOL you`ve never been here have you plenty of us do it`s just when you get into the bible belt area you meet some "interesting" people.**Hears dueling banjos***
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Male 377
OMG an american who understands his countries ideals! I thought they`d all been shot by the rednecks.
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Male 7,378
Good for him. Don`t see too many 10year olds capable of defying their brain washing.
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Male 138
geez, hoping this kinda crap was gonna stay out of arkansas.....*gets out shotgun*

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Male 252
Good poo. That kid`s awesome. I thought he`d be a little wanker who was trying to be a wise ass but it turned out he`s a child prodigy. Smart kid.
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Male 31
Nice, "Fag?" Go back to the rock to which you came from.
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Male 156
Fair enough.
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Male 1
Perhaps there is hope for you Yanks after all :-D
Nice going, kid.
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Female 1,589
Link: Boy Won`t Pledge Allegiance in his Classroom [Rate Link] - An Arkansas 10-year-old says he won`t pledge to the flag until gays and lesbians have equal rights.
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