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where everyone was having sex with everyone, and god codemned THAT, not homosexuality per se
also, the bible says not to mix fabrics, and that we can`t eat certain "unclean" animals such as pigs. and that if a man is trying to rape another man, we should offer our own daughter instead
the bible is full of rubbish, really =]
that is a stupid argument.
you are trying to equated a crime with a social priveligde moron
rape is bad because it infringes on the right of another person not to be raped.
whether or not heff and jose want to tie the knot does not affect the rights anyone but them. it may infringe on the principles of a religion but that is not the same f*cking thing
The sign`s meant to point out the /hypocrisy/ of those who get on homosexuals for `going against the Bible` and being gay.
i.e. You can`t hear one thing and not another.As you said.
... And for the record, I don`t think a lot of homosexuals care whether or not the bible supports their lifestyle.
Amen to that, pikajens!
....poo, I really did not try to do that.
Honestly, I wish the concept of religion didn`t exist in the first place.
If you don`t like rape, then don`t do it.
Um, seems like it`s talking about a different country than here. Hard to purge the evil from Israel in American. But people always love to take bible verses out of context. So you get to believe whatever you want. The bible is just a stage prop.
"22:20 But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel:22:21 Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father`s house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the whore in her father`s house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you."
Awesome tactic, by the way. There should be more of this. Religionists of that particular persuasion are damned by their actions on a regular basis, and its time they experience the shame commensurate with their hypocrisy.
First, to those saying that Christians can`t oppose gay marriage/intercourse while defending pre-marital or extra-marital sex; yes, you are right. What the Church teaches is NOT homosexuals go to hell, but rather that sexual intercourse should ONLY occur between a married couple with the intention of conceiving a child.
So in reality, even married couples using a condom or birth control are going against the Church`s teachings.
Now, to address the argument that Christians ignore the Old Testament (anything before Jesus), this is not true. Jesus says in the gospels, "I come not to destroy the old law but to fulfill it" Matt. 5:17-19.
So does this mean Jesus wants us to stone non-virgins and homosexuals? No. In fact he stops the stoning of a woman accused of adultery: John 8:2-11.
Before the flames start, I have nothing against homosexual people and even if I did, I have no right to impose my beliefs upon them.
Shame on you so-called rationalists for not checking the facts, because it confirms your prejudices.
And you honestly agree that women who are no longer virgins should be KILLED? Seriously?
Words of genius from Pilanus. This is why people like the Pope get in power =|(I`m Christian, so I do know what I`m talking about)
Religion doesn`t even have anything to do with this.
"To each his day is given. Beyond recall, man`s little time runs by: but to prolong life`s glory by great deeds is virtue`s power."
Hey look, I can quote 2000 year old books too. That doesn`t mean I should make my interpretation of it into a legally binding document that affects millions of people, some of which may disagree with my interpretation.
People need to learn to leave their "all powerful" deities out of politics. If their deity has a problem with it, let the deity themself make it known. An "all powerful" deity does not need human minions running around with their varying interpretations, harassing people in its name. It can harass who it chooses, and if it isn`t harassing select people on it`s own, the chances are that it doesn`t want them to be harassed.
24Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city; and the man, because he hath humbled his neighbour`s wife: so thou shalt put away evil from among you.
25But if a man find a betrothed damsel in the field, and the man force her, and lie with her: then the man only that lay with her shall die.
26But unto the damsel thou shalt do nothing; there is in the damsel no sin worthy of death: for as when a man riseth against his neighbour, and slayeth him, even so is this matter:
27For he found her in the field, and the betrothed damsel cried, and there was none to save her.
28If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found;
29Then the man that lay with her shal
Man, who DOESN`T want to follow everything in the bible? It`s clearly got all our backs.
as long as he lives. 20 If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the girl`s virginity can be found, 21 she shall be brought to the door of her father`s house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death. She has done a disgraceful thing in Israel by being promiscuous while still in her father`s house. You must purge the evil from among you.
It only applies to men when they take an already married woman-then and only then can he be killed and then only because he took some other man`s property-yes PROPERTY. Contrary to fundie whining men slept around all the time with unattached women and nobody faulted the men for anything, it was simply their right, but the women bore the brunt of this brutal primitive system with their lives.
Why? It came from your own book.
Lolwut? The Ten Commandments are in the OT as well.
And also, might I direct your attention to Matthew 5:17-20, where Jesus clearly says that nothing should be removed from the old Law (i.e. all the Laws of the OT) until heaven and earth disappear. So in fact, according to Jesus, all the OT laws still apply.
So maybe it`s you that needs a better understanding of the religion.
making fun of the christian religion... well at lrast we dont have to were capes on our heads, now do we!?
Ummm... Dude, you`ve totally missed the point haven`t you big fella. Refer below - Khronnus - and try and wrap your head around it.
I mean, to say what we`re all thinking like that. Come on, dude. Give us some spotlight! T_T
i think these people should first get a conceptual understanding of the religion they attack before attacking it...
fight fire with fire? more like fight fire with keroscene.
It`s not like they can reproduce anyway.
Lol bare back.
I attended the First Annual Texas Freethought Convention (www.texasfreethoughtconvention.com) in Austin, Texas where he was a guest speaker. I know the organizers of those conventions personally; they are good friends of mine.
Ocean, maybe you`re the sexual deviant for caring about it so much. Hell, it`s more sexually deviant, according to nature, to be monogamous than to be gay (or other kinds of non-heterosexualities).
That man is phenomenal. I had the pleasure of meeting him in person.
"both male and female should be a virgin upon marriage. Otherwise it is a sin"
Why? Why? Why do you think God is so hot and bothered about your personal sex life that he`s so eager to throw you in a furnace lest you repent? And about that...
"(that yes, you can repent of)"
In what possible way can one be considered moral when one is able to inexplicably absolve oneself of any responsibility for a perceived misdeed and then carry oneself as if the misdeed never happened? I contend that a more highly moral person would not only not need to absolve himself of guilt in such a fashion (because the misdeed would never have been committed in the first place), but that he *couldn`t* even if he wanted because that act would be seen by him, and rightfully so, as an abomination to any genuine sense of morality.
Actually, I just made up that term, just for people like you, oceanbeast.
I don`t care if they want to marry. Its an abomination in my book, but it is their life. Let them do what they want. That is why we have free will to either choose one path or another and no one should force any path upon another.
Your right, Jesus didn`t say anything about it...but why would he need to. It was already in the laws. Jesus came to fulfill the sacrifice laws, but none of the others changed. It was (and still is) wrong to murder someone else. And the law also states that:Lev 18:22: Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
I`m done....next IAB item
YOU LIE, davymid! Gays we can accept, but the furries will have to wait their turn as well. xD
I look forward to the day when we look back on this disgusting denial of basic human rights to gay people and realise how abhorrent and evil it all was, as we do now when we look back at black slavery and denial of womens` rights.
Gay people, your time will come. You`re just the last in the queue.
1) Slavery2) Womens` rights3) Gay rights
The Bible lays out the ground laws on all three. Much of it is in this link (Actual Bible quotes). The Bible makes it very clear that slaves are allowed, that they are your property to be beaten at will, as long as they are bought from other nations than yours. Women must subjugate to their man in all things. And also, gay people are to be murdered.
Laws and societal trends are traditionally bound up in this kind of bronze-age religious bullsh*t dogma, which have always been a pervading and perverting force in politics. Slaves from Africa were an accepted thing until the last century. Women were only given the right to f*cking vote in most of the world in this century. Sickening.
"Because the Bible told me so"
[quote]gay marriage is wrong because being gay is a SEXUAL DEVIANCE. like being a pedophile being gay is an abnormal behavior. [/quote]
I can provide the exact link if you like.
Now, call me radical, but equating homosexuals with paedophiles (both "SEXUAL DEVIANTS", original author`s emphasisis) is very worrying to me. It doesn`t jive very well with your current public stance of "forget that Old Testament stuff guys, peace and love and all that".
If homosexuality is such a big deal in Christianity, why didn`t Jesus mention it? Ever? A single solitary word? A throwaway quote somewhere?
Read it. It says, that if she lies about being a virgin, then for the portrayal of being a whore, then she should die. If he lies about her being a whore, then he will pay for the lie. Later in the same chapter it deals with men. That if they take a virgin without marriage then he should die.
Basically, both male and female should be a virgin upon marriage. Otherwise it is a sin (that yes, you can repent of).
However it doesnt talk about it being vaild/invalid one way or another....only the punishment of being a whore (male/female).
This is why I always question christians (particularly catholics) on the whole gay marraige issue: Many people are anti gay marraige because sex between a man and a man is a sin. As per many religious groups, we all sin in various ways and have to work to repent/confess. Jesus even died for our sins. It`s also stated by many that all sins are equal. But if all sins are equal why do we have to bring the law into some and not others? You shouldn`t use law to try and prevent this particular sin and if we can do that, then I want to come over to your house make a list of all of your sins and start passing legislature around it. Its ridiclous.
It amazes me that people believe a god who is intelligent enough to create the universe(s), is still vain, egotistical, and childish enough to send people to hell for not worshiping him.
and that`s all I have to say about it.and no, it doesn`t make sense to the actual arguments going on here, it isn`t supposed to.
pffffft, misused. You`re full of sh*t.
lol oceanbeast, call into The Atheist Experience & talk to Matt Dillahunty. I bet you his Biblical knowledge surpasses your own x1000.
Also, if the old testament is not to be taken literally, then most of the quotes the bible thumpers put on signs would be obsolete as well.
When God makes rules, why in the f*ck would he EVER change them? It`s GOD for f*ck sakes. He doesn`t have to change sh*t.
Pretty sure you can`t really interpret this many other ways...
"If the woman that was married as a virgin was not found to be one she was to be stoned to death at her father`s door"
Here`s the passage, for those too lazy to look.
I find this utterly, insurmountably brilliant.
I am not a supporter of gays I do believe it is wrong but not because the bible says it is because it is truly wrong. Men and women exist as two separate entities for a reason cause one can not be completely without the other. Two men/women cannot complete a whole.
nothing happened. :O
Thats cause the bible is extremely sexist, and rules in favor of men. kinda makes you think it was a man who wrote it now doesnt it?
Have you read the referenced chapters? They are readily accessible on-line. Clearly they state that if a man accuses his wife of not being a virgin (maid, but the context is clear), then it is the bride`s father`s obligation to prove to the elders that the wife is indeed a virgin; if this is not the case, then that woman is stoned to death. The spirit of that passage is preserved on the sign.
It`s an accurate summary of the stated verses. Click here to read the verses in the traditional King James V versionL
The Christian bible is full of vile stuff. It`s just that Christianity allows a pick `n` mix approach to it.
Christians don`t really have any support for an aversion to homosexuality. Doing so relies on using bad mistranslations of selected verses only, while ignoring other verses in the same section. Usually without even being aware of doing so, let alone having a reason why.
I consider myself to be Christian, but I try to be open minded. If people want to live their lives their own way, then let them. Do you think protesting would make them change their mind? <.< Nope~
and a Voice says "I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger, Ezekiel 25:17. I CAN QUOTE IT TOO, BITCHES!!"
gotta love double-standards...
well, i guess this means im screwed. nice knowing you guys :(
1) I have read the entire Bible, several times. The purpose of those passages in the Bible is clear - to lay down the laws of what is and what isn`t acceptable in the eyes of God. There`s plenty more of it to be found in Leviticus. (Incidentally, why do we have to read Genesis and Exodus, but we can skip Leviticus and Numbers?)
2) The context can be seen here. There`s no other way to interpret it - if a man is going to marry a woman but discovers she`s not a virgin, the men of the city are to stone her to death. If you can come up with any other plausible interpretation of those words, I`d love to hear it.
And are you against oral sex too? Because blowjobs are outlawed in the Bible - it all falls under "sodomy".
Don`t worry, just before I stopped believing in God that was the EXACT argument that kept me hanging on."
Same here! I was taught from day one that there is a big dude in the sky who controls everything and watches you constantly, ready to put a mark next to your name for every last thing you do wrong.
So, when I finally started realizing how much brainwashing and fear is in the Bible, I started to doubt, and question, and finally stop believing.
No matter how much Roman Catholics preach how loving, kind and forgiving God is, they taught me in about 2nd grade about hell and the 10 commandments and how if I broke them (lying to my mom saying my homework was done when it wasn`t) I was going to hell.
The reason I was hesitant about my choice of backing out of Christianity wasn`t because of my love of God- it was fear of damnation.
Well, if I`m going to hell, I may as
And that sucks balls.
Damn, I hate thinking."
Don`t worry, just before I stopped believing in God that was the EXACT argument that kept me hanging on. Then I thought a bit more about how the threat of eternal torture (or eternal reward) is a bloody good way to get people to believe in something, as it appeals to the baser traits of humanity. That made me see it as much more of a human construct than a divine one.
You`ll see the light soon enough.
: - )
I on the other hand, understand why religions acted the way they did and try to analyze their rationale, not to defend them because their actions certainly not acceptable, its just to gain a better view of things, and to appreciate how far we have come today.
Religions all have hate-mongers and misguided people, as do agnostics, atheists, and hell even a Buddhist or two down the line (probably more). Responsible Christians, therefore, should realize the wrong things that have been done in the past and learn from it to avoid great misdeeds in modern times. Lest not to forget, "to err is human."
And it`s not believing as I do korea. Believing implies an opinion, and I presented facts to refute your claim (an actual opinion). Accepting those facts helps mark an individual as a mature and responsible member of society. Ignoring them...well, that`s pretty obvious...
The oft maligned Catholics are very open to many figurative interpretations of the Bible. Plus, Vatican City has a well-renowned astrophysics program, the Pope and larger Catholic community have agreed with the Big Bang Theory and evolution, and the church has apologized for the mistreating of Galileo.
Fundamentalists believe in literal interpretations, and generally give most of the Christian community a bad name.
Many atheists, agnostics, and others already know these facts, but a large portion of the internet atheist league would do well to learn some more about Christian denominations.
Keep my decrees and all my laws and follow them. I am the LORD. Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material.
So if you have some poly/cotton blend on IAB...you are going to hell!
if you got such an issue with christians, and their beliefs, why are u using one of them to support your own pointseriously, the bibles a book...read it for yourself, not for a religion you appear to have no respect for
You`re also not allowed to plant different grapes together, nor yoke your ox and donkey together, and if you make a cloak, by GOD it better have four tassels!
....so whatever i, or anyone else says, u wont believe the bible, right?
did u ever consider that alot of other people have read the bible and you cannot change their mind otherwise?
cos if u had considered it you`d realize what you`ve said is exactly like the church which "tried brainwash you"cos i think thats kinda "full of contradictions"
if you had any "common sense" you`d realize the bible isnt a way of life, it was written as a way of morally improving people, u dont have to believe it all, but the general message is "to be good people, use common sense, help others when needed, pay taxes and die"
so basicaly, if u dont like someone shoving their belief down your throat...dont do it yourself
The point is that I don`t think bigotry is cool, regardless of what religious group is targeted.
But since you asked mannord.
Religious extremists (of any stripe) FTL
Damn, I hate thinking.
I hate you guys. Every time there`s some religious flame war on IAB, I have to read it, because, well, I have no life. And they`re entertaining. And everyone time I do, I question my beliefs.
You see, I want to defend the bible by saying, "that doesn`t count, because it was written in the old testament, and what was done then is absurd now, like segregating blacks."That`s the argument I come up with.
And then, there are some things that are repeated in both the old and new testament, like how being gay is bad.
And you know, I don`t want to belive that, because that path isn`t chosen, and going to hell just for preferring someone of the same sex doesn`t seen right.So I say the bible is flawed because it is written by man.
But then, I feel hypocritical.
So I question if there really is a God, but I can`t really say that there isn`t, because I can`t bring myself to believe that (b/c of tons of reasons!).
And I d
Why not be equal opportunity bigots and, say, post the Muhammad cartoons?"
SOMEONE had soggy cereal this morning...
Submit some quality links of that nature and then maybe they`ll get through. If it`s not submitted we don`t post it, not our fault what you all suggest.
Also, Christians are the majority in the United States (and this is a heavily American website) and it is almost ALWAYS incredibly more accepted to poke fun at the majorities than the minorities.
Why not be equal opportunity bigots and, say, post the Muhammad cartoons?
It`s already happened :0
Opie likes me, my life is complete.. I can die a happy man now :D
YES. AWESOME. I like you.
This explains a lot...
Anyone want any Jesus shaped churros or rainbow colored popcorn for the fight?
This was wrote as a commandment from god to Israel, not for god to us.
All things considered HUFFER, I`d love that! :D
Now lets all sit back and watch yet another Gay/Religious war unfold...........
"I went down into the garden of nuts to see the fruits of the valley, and to see whether the vine flourished and the pomegranates budded."
- Song of Solomon, Chapter 6, Verse 11
"How beautiful are thy feet with shoes, O prince`s daughter! the joints of thy thighs are like jewels, the work of the hands of a cunning workman. Thy navel is like a round goblet, which wanteth not liquor, thy belly is like an heap of wheat set about with lilies. Thy two breasts are like two young roes that are twins. This thy stature is like to a palm tree, and thy breasts to clusters of grapes. I said, I will go up to the palm tree, I will take hold of the boughs thereof: now also thy breasts shall be as clusters of the vine"
- Song of Solomon, Chapter 7, Verses 1-3, 7, 8
The Bible is full of contradictions and sex.
Quoting it to make a point is ignorant at best, foolish at worst.
As far as homosexuality is concerned, I wonder what makes this issue so different than all the other Biblical taboos that have been accepted over the years. I honestly think it all boils down to the "yuck" factor.
`There is no God.` - Laws of logic
jeeze, man. that`s pretty archaic.
I don`t know that I`ve ever seen one on IAB. While I would certainly welcome it, I would prefer not to see any articles of a religious nature, pro- or anti-.
So we can only post pro-religion articles?
Because that will most defiantly keep the flame wars down....If people just didn`t over react to everyone else`s posts then none of this would happen..
Yeah I know, religious people have their points, and so do non religious people. We all know what your points are and have heard them about 178 billion times, so if everyone just shut up then we can have IAB post whatever they want & we`ll all be somewhat happy.
Why so bigoted, IAB?
And as citizens I believe we are choosing to vote in conjunction of how "it should be run", or in God`s eyes at least.
"If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads." Leviticus 20:13
Also, I love it when people going around saying "I don`t mind if people are gay, just as long as they don`t go around trying to convert anyone".
Does someone honestly believe that gay people want to turn everyone gay? And even if they wanted to, that they could?
That being said, as previously mentioned, the verse on the sign is being misquoted and taken out of context. It`s another example of the ill-informed trying to justify their actions by misinterpreting someone else`s laws.Also, the Old Testament is just that. If anyone took the time to actually sit down, read, and study it (instead of being told or assuming they know what it`s about), they would know that. It contains the books of Jewish law, history, wisdom, and prophecy.The New Testament did away with the Old Testament and its laws. It was not put into effect until Christ died.
Fly, my pretties! FLY!
If they think that having the state say they are "married" will make everyone accept them as a couple they are mistaken. The validation that they seek will never come from a large percentage of the population. The fact that they are trying to force the issue on people actually just makes them resent gay people more, not just accept them for what they are, two people in love spending their lives together.
Sex before marriage is still forbidden, but so is killing some one, as is not following the laws of your country. Most of the New Testament rules that Jesus put out supersede the Old Testament nonsense, and Jesus actually says to disregard the teachings and rules of the past hierarchical Jewish church.
If you actually look up this passage it is along with hundreds of rules and make up a large number of the Kosher rules. One is "Do not wear clothing made of wool and linen woven together." Another is "if you hand a man you must bury his body before night". Most of the entire Old Testament is disregarded by Christians anyway.
The question is, why do gay people care about having the "marriage" term labeled on their relationship by the state? Most all benefits given to married couples are afforded to gay couple
"If, however, this charge is true, that evidence of the young woman`s virginity was not found, then they shall bring the young woman out to the entrance of her father`s house and the men of her town shall stone her to death because she has committed a disgraceful act in Israel by prostituting herself in her father`s house. So you shall purge the evil from your midst"-Deuteronomy 22:20
That`s sound pretty much like what they said up there...
On the other hand, I, just like most Christians (if not all), do believe it is wrong to have sex before marriage and plan on staying a virgin until marriage. I would hope that I marry someone who has the same beliefs on this and Christianity as well.
Just thought I`d throw that out there...PS excuse typos XD
While not the same wording, it is the same meaning.
Run for your lives! The Boogey Man is after you! Run mutherf*ckers, run!
"Some rules are more important to uphold than others, while it`s not as important for girls to be virgins prior to marriage, homosexuality should never be permitted."
You can`t explain fantasy using logic, they are opposites by definition.
Liars, Misogynists and Homophobics OH MY!