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To be fair, they possible saved a few more lifes.
Not really, those women must of had a somewhat sound reason for abortion and if they didn`t would you want such an unfit mother raising a baby sucking up your tax dollars? Pro-lifers are quick to send someone to war but critics when a women can`t raise a baby and needs an abortion. Defend peoples rights, not an unborn babies rights. People are irresponsible, yes, but you can`t infringe on their life for an unborn baby.
The definition of murder isn`t an opinion. Killing a fellow human is not subject to debate, it is what it is. The fetus is a human, and killing it would be murder. Like I have stated before, it`s not murder in a legal perspective, and I would hope it stays that way.
Yeah those damn rape and incest whores.
thats +999 in my books. Simple math here"
You`re right prime. Pre-emptive strikes are the way to go.
Let`s kill all pro-lifers, because God knows how many doctors they`ll kill in the future, like they did to this guy.
After all, a set amount now is surely less than a possibly infinite amount in the future, right?
"We used to live in a society that permitted the enslavement of minorities. Should we have just dealt with it?"
We did deal with it. On the down side, dealing with it started a war, another reason why I threw the "without adding to the death toll" line in there. As far as the "pro choice / anti choice" argument, the baby boy/girl getting killed doesn`t get to choose. Which do you think they`d choose if given the choice? But, I`m sure that`s just semantics.
Pro choice ought to mean choosing to use a rubber or keeping your damn knees together.
Anyway, its the mothers choice to get an abortion or not. The public has no vote in what happens to a mother`s fetus.
There are plenty of kids in adoption places already. Need to thin those out before more get tossed in there.:)
clearly it is because we need every human being to fight against the inevitable invasion of alien andriods from mars.
Also.. where do robots come into play here at all? How is that relevant? Because robots are on Mars, the government should be able to claim every woman`s uterus as its own public property? I don`t think so.
Good. I hope he suffered a while before he died.
How could you even preform one? I would be getting all ready and prepped to do it and then I would think: "Wait... haven`t we progressed as a society to the point were we have ROBOTS ON F*CKING MARS? That`s right we have, I guess I physically can`t do this then. Oh well."
Kill 1 save a thousand
thats +999 in my books. Simple math here
Should I be surprised that a pro-lifer is attempting to justify homicide? ...Nah.
Abortion - Very delicate subject.
Internet. Srs business.
However, you and someone else earlier somewhere had a similar argument.."Don`t you think it`s the childs choice if he/she want`s to live?"Now, let`s say HYPOTHETICALLY this child doesn`t want to live. Hypothetically! Your reasoning suggests they are entitled to kill themselves, yet this is completely against pro-life views
I`m too young to give a sh*t about all of this. I have other stuff to worry about... like pimples.
Unless you`ve been involved in an abortion situation, whether as the man or as the woman in the partnership, epsecially if the woman, then you simply can`t understand the magnitude of the emotions at play.
I`m totally for abortion. I used to say I was pro-choice, but qualify it by saying "but I would never have one". Well I`ve done some growing up and you know what, I would have one.
Pregnancy grosses me out and is probably my biggest fear in life after cancer. I never want to have children. So does that mean I should never have sex? Um, no. Sex is not just a tool for procreation, it`s a fun activity (necessity even). If you want to procreate, go nuts. But don`t force ME to if my contraception fails, or `god forbid` I forget to use some.
Also putting restrictions on who can get an abortion is just a way to punish women. Seriously. "If she was raped, she can have an abortion. Oh, but if she CHOSE to have sex, well too bad for her, that skank has to grow a kid in her and be reminded of her crappy choices in life". drat that noise. Everybody has sex, everybody has the right to have sex.
That`s like saying if there are a bunch of parts to a computer, that hasn`t been built yet, and I smash all the parts to hell, and then when the owner freaks out I say "Well it wasn`t a computer yet"
And the whole "It`s the womans body" thing is pretty flawed too, because what if there are conjoined twins, and one of them kills the other, because it`s "His body"? Does that justify it?
I mean really, is it so hard to just take one for the team and put the child up for adoption? If you don`t want it, well okay, but completely denying it of its existence is kind of selfish IMO.
Of course that`s just my opinion.
Abortion is wrong and my opinion matters. My age has nothing to do with it. If you want to get an abortion... Get an abortion. Live with what you did for the rest of your life or forget about it and go on. That preacher dude didn`t deserve to die. It was very wrong and very hypocritical for someone to do if this is their reason.
That`s because China is a totalitarian regime that Regulates who has kids and how many and of what gender. Their education system(much like japans) is also far more aggressive and competitive then ours is. We have the choice to be drop outs, they don`t. Lack of freedom and all.
I pray that God accepted him into heaven, understanding the hardship he probably went through just to kill those babies. And I hope all the babies that were aborted and are now in heaven forgives him.
What you said was wrong. Every opinion matters. Obviously my opinion matters to you or you wouldn`t be reacting to it.
Agreed, though I wouldn`t have put it so... offensively. Everyone was(is) young and stupid once, even einstein.
A baby isn`t a life until it`s heart starts beating. Which is while it`s still in its mother.
If a child grows up think they killed their mother, they really need someone to talk to. They need to understand that their mother die to save their life, not that they killed their mother. It`s better than growing up think that your mother was meaning to abort you to save her life but someone forced her to have you and she died.
I hope that makes sense.
I agre with you completely. In fact, that you posted is basically the exact reason why I would have no problems with an abortion in a life-or-death situation like that.
The reasons I gave are the only cases I personally could accept it. In any other case I fully believe you should take responsibility for what you have done, you made your bed, now you must lie in it.
A child from rape is a delicate subject. The woman did not consent, was forced upon, and became pregnant as a result. It`s something I would give the poor girl full choice in the matter. Can you even imagine what that would be like? How life-altering and world-shattered that experience would be? If kept the child would be a constant reminder of that horrible act. Some could look past it. Some couldn`t. Either way I feel that it should be their choice.
Besides, how do you know what you would do, if that happened to you? Just like if you had a child with someone you loved, and you find out that the pregnancy would kill you, and you must decide who lives? You can say you`d to this and do that, but all that changes when it really happens, when your times up and its do or die.
sorry for the tranquil comment in the midst of your heated debate =D
My brother has learning disabilitys and he thanks god every day that he is alive. My parents and others have worked with him through out his whole life and he acts just as normal now as any other 19 year old.
When my uncle was born, the doctors said that he wouldn`t live past the age of 20. My great grandmother (who is still alive by the way)was scared and hurt. Well he lived to the age of 20 and guess what? He`s still alive today.. In his late 60`s.
To each his/her own though.
I realize that. What I said was also geared toward FATAL diseases. And that I leave the decision to the parents. I would hope they have enough humanity in them to give the child a chance, but it isnt always so. Deafness isnt fatal. Neither are mild cases of cerebral palsy, emmerging as clumsiness, or being just a tad slow. My neice falls under the latter. She`s two, can`t speak a word, but shes getting there, and bound to start within a year. It doesnt mean she couldn`t do amazing things with her life. And shes got a killer right hook.
Why should any child with such handicap be forced to suffer through such things. I mean what if the child tested for a learning disability that would cause them not to speak till the age of 3. End the pregnancy.
Or if you knew the child would be born with a condition that would end up rendering them deaf... Hwy make that child suffer either.
Just so you know... the first child was Einstein... the second was Beethoven. The fact is you never know what a child COULD become just because they have a disability.
It`s not my place to put a value on life, be it newborn or been around the block a couple times. And its human nature to look out for the self. Self-perservation is our strongest urge. If one must die for the other to live, thats a decision the mother and father have to make, and live with for the rest of their lives. If the baby would die anyway... And if the mother was the one in danger... That`s her choice, whether to sacrifice herself for her child or go the route of self-perservation. Can say I blame her either way.
Don`t you think that a babies life matters more than an adults?
It`s not a call I could make, but I know if I myself were horribly disfigured now(fall renders me permanently paralyzed, brain dead ect. ect.) I would find a bullet to eat. I would rather die than live like that.
If sex ed was enforced, parents brought them up in an atmosphere where they feel they can ask them about Anything... and contraceptives were very cheap and easy to obtain there wouldn`t be a problem. If proper precautions are taken you Can`t have a kid. Taking the pill(or insertable contraceptives) tends to regulate your period and generally (99%) prevents pregnancy. If you really want to play it safe, plot your periods, use condoms about 2 weeks before it starts. Sperm don`t live long(3-5 days at most) eggs even less(2-3 max) as long as nothing gets in there during that time period, nothing happens.
That`s not fact at all, dude! That`s just a very, very generalized theory. How can you say that? How do you know one of those kids wouldn`t turn out to be the next Einstein?
My problem with abortion isn`t necessarily the killing of an unborn child, it`s the fact that people use it to escape from their choices. They chose to have sex without a condom or protection. We live in a world now where consequences don`t really apply anymore. Got pregnant because you`re a moron? Get an abortion. No, don`t take responsibility for your actions, just take the easy way out.
If you`re American just replace chav with redneck or something. It should work still.
To be fair, they possible saved a few more lifes.
Sterilization is also not always a viable solution, as some couples may want to have a child later on in life, and the procedures to undergo sterilization are not always affordable.
Abortion as a last-ditch effort, when safe sex, morning after pills, etc, have been used, is a viable and useful procedure to prevent unwanted children from being born.
Above all, there is no reason that a woman should have to undergo 9 months of pregnancy when she never wanted a child and took extensive means to prevent it. Saying "abstinence is the only solution" is also bullpoo, because there`s no reason a person should be denied pleasure when the risk taken is towards one`s self, and when one has a viable solution to prevent that risk.
Also, someone can get pregnant whilst practicing safe sex. Everyone knows a consequence of having sex is getting pregnant, but a valid way to deal with the pregnancy is to get an abortion. If they realize they can`t afford to take care of a child or wouldn`t be willing to take care of the child (even whilst in the womb) then it is the fetuses best interest to be aborted.
While people do have sex for multiple reasons, they are aware of the consequenses of sex. Procreation will likely happen after one or more unprotected sexual encounters. I don`t care why someone is having sex, but they can`t ignore the fact that a child may result. Consent to sex is consent to pregnancy because there is always the possibility of it happening and the partners almost certainly know it.
The prolife campaigner that killed the doctor has indeed stopped him from carrying out further abortions, but has greatly impacted the respect your community once had.
I personally believe that this campaigner has (unfairly) significantly affected the integrity of the prolife community. But no-one that`s pro-life here has commented on this
Furthermore, there are some instances in which it is right for people to impose their beliefs on society. I believe that theft is wrong. It is certainly right to impose that belief on society.
I`m not arguing on religion, and it shouldn`t really matter to you what my religious beliefs are. You are, simply put, being a bully.
Sounds like you agree with it to me. Unless you weren`t trying get people to justify it with this comment.
Know what, I vote a change of nature so that men will menstruate from their penii (whatever the plural for penis is) so that
A: Women will feel betterB: Somehow, someway, everybody will get pregnant and we will be forced to practice super-duper safe sex!
I never said it was valid and I don`t agree with it.
Just because the man was able to mentally justify it to himself doesn`t make the act right...so unless you agree with his justification I hardly see how it`s valid.
He wasn`t murdered. He was "late-term aborted."
No, I am not. I was attempting to show what I believe the man was thinking when he justified the act.
I don`t think going into detail about menstruation is so bad. But I`m a pretty open (minded, and talking-wise!) person about most things, which can sometimes be a bad thing and then I don`t understand why people can`t handle hearing the little details or in-depth stuff?
It`s all well and good for having your personal beliefs on abortion, but are you seriously defending murderers here?
And also...to people who say life begins at conception so they use birth control. What about people who believe that even the use of birth control is murder. Do they have to right to demand we ban contraceptives (or kill the makers of contraceptives?)
I was only joking dear. :)
green_batman, I mentioned that an aborted fetus won`t grow into a child because you said a menstruated egg wont grow into a child but a non aborted fetus will. A menstruated egg is similar to an aborted fetus, both wont grow into a child. If the egg isn`t expelled and is fertilized, it will most likely grow into a child. I was simply pointing out that comparing a nonfertilized expelled egg to a non aborted fetus and saying one will grow into a child and the other will not isn`t a good comparison since if the fetus is aborted it will also not grow into a child.
I think that it is a hit to the integrity of the person. A whole ideology cannot be judged by the actions of one extremist. If it were me, I would try to change the laws and have that man thrown in jail. I think that murdering him was wrong both morally and legally.
I`d be much happier if she said a turkey baster and a vial of sperm like in American Dad.
Perhaps they thought that through the killing of one man whom they consider a murderer they would save many more innocent lives. You do not view the doctor as a murderer so you do not share this view, but if you did know a certain man was a murderer who had killed many and would not stop killing, would you then view his slaying differently?
When did this turn into a debate at all?
We`re on I-am-bored.com. People are bored. Be prepared for this stuff.
(Just answer it. I`m attempting to cool down some flames. It`s erfing Summer, the fire here will burn the entire World)
Do you not think that this action has lost the integrity of the prolife campaign since murder is exactly what we are to believe you are against?
Prolife campaigners may have the likelihood of being catergorized as extremists by the media and public, the same as some animal rights group have been.
We can all argue about whether abortion is right or wrong, yet a man has been murdered by, police believe a prolife campaigner. Judging by many of the prolife comments here I feel the prolife group have much less compassion than I previously thought. Most of the arguments raised have little compassion for the mother or indeed the murdered doctor.
The pro-abortion group address gray areas - the well being of the mother, the possible harm to the child if born, etc whereas I feel the prolife argument doesn`t and simply sees everything in black and white
Big Gulps, huh? Alright! Well... see ya later!
I agree. I don`t agree with a lackadaisical attitude towards abortion either, but I still think women should have a right to choose. They should, however, think it through heavily, know other options, and take it seriously. See, pro-lifers and pro-choicers can agree. ;)
Me as well. My religious beliefs have nothing to do with my stance on abortion. It comes from my belief that killing babies is wrong.
The problem is, the fact that animals are rational is not a personal religious belief. It is science. You can still be religious and know science.
That`s where you and the religious disagree. We believe that humanity is a step above the animals, created with thinking minds and free will to drive us instead of pure instinct. Religious people shouldn`t use their Bible in debates, since it means nothing to an atheist, but atheists should also realize that points where they differ with the religious should not be taken for granted.
Humans will kill each other if they feel absolutely necessary.
They will even eat each other, too.
Remember the story, or a boat, leading to nowhere, and a handful of men, with a bundle of straws - one of them much shorter than the rest - and whomever unfortunately chose the short straw was killed and eaten by everyone else.
I`m just babbling btw. I`m not saying we`re eating foeti. Just saying sometimes you have to kill. (I`m not saying we HAVE to kill foeti either, this is just a reply to people who say it`s ABSOLUTELY wrong for people to kill each other no matter what)
<b>[b]Testing html to see which one is correct</b>[/b]
Absolutely. I don`t think using abortion as a form of birth control is right.
I`ve never known anyone in my life that`s had abortion after abortion. The ones that I do know that have had abortions did it because they had no way to provide for their kid or the fetus`s death was inevitable. It was a hard choice for them, and it wasn`t something they did because they just didn`t feel like being pregnant. Also, all but one had first-term abortions.
They see me trollin` they hatin`....
You should probably be banned.
Yes, and some people kill babies, which is where it crosses the line.
Animals, too, have rational minds. Apes, dolphins, octupi, monkeys, just to name a few. Humans are also animals. We are not our own entire tree of life. We are mammals. How are we different than animals other than a) our minds have a higher capacity and b) we can use tools more proficiently?
Can`t do it. Yet I bet I could prove they do.
You called religions "cults".
Everything you`re saying is only making yourself look uneducated. Save your face.
Our society needs to stop being afraid of sex. Sex is essential for continuation of a species, and, since we are animals, it is a biological instinct for us as it is for any other creature. Therefore, we need to promote better sex education. Teach teenagers how to use condoms, give out free condoms, promote young girls going to clinics for their birth control, etc. Hell, I`m 20, and I get free birth control through a state clinic. Not only will this prevent teen pregnacies, it will also lower the transmissions of STDs.
Absolutely... I feel like the people who understand that a gray area exists/want to talk become background noise while extremists rant and rave.
If people were more responsible for themselves, we wouldn`t have an overpopulation and unwanted child problem. There will always be some people who don`t want to take responsibility for their actions, but a majority of the population should. There has been a decline in the number of people taking responsibility for themselves in America, which is why we have problems with teen pregnancy, unwanted children, and abortion. If the government would stop holding people`s hands and excusing wrongdoing, people would learn to stand on their own feet.
Free will does not outweigh morality. Killing is wrong in all but the most unusual of circumstances, so free will cannot support a decision to kill. If people were allowed to do whatever they wanted under the banner of free will, there would be total anarchy.
But you didn`t really state a point- you basically just
1) Grouped pro-lifers into a religious group 2) Used insults
I`m not even totally pro-life. It doesn`t really concern me, I get that it`s a hard choice. Maybe you should go rant on a street corner while everyone with some class debates/shares?
If someone across the country murders a school full of kids it won`t hurt you. Would you think it matters? 115,000 babies are killed everyday by abortion. I think it matters.
Madest, you should seriously consider stopping.
That being said, madest, you`re not helping the pro-choice side by attacking pro-lifers with insults.
I figure someone who is 40-49 would be able to debate a little better? Google "Weasel Words".
You can make up and use a pleasant sounding term for it, but no matter how much you twist and tweak the labels abortion is still killing a child. You can change the name but you can`t change the act. I am not anti-choice. I am anti-choice-to kill-babies. Do you think I should have the choice to burn daycares down? No? Then you are now anti-choice.
And leave your "then we shouldn`t have courts" and "we shouldn`t judge people for killing their neighbour" comments in your head. They are invalid.
That is my impression of madest trying.
That being said, a friend of mine was stupid and got pregnant when she was 19. She decided she was going to carry it to term and give it to a family she knew for adoption. However, 6 months into her pregnancy, her OB/GYN discovered that the child had a severe abnormality... I believe what she said that the internal organs never developed minus the heart, lungs, and brain. She was also at a very high risk of a miscarriage, one that for her would be very severe and put her life on the line. She decided to abort. I think she made the right choice, because a) there was no chance of the baby living, and even if it did, its life would be short and painful, and b) it could have killed her.
What about them? That`s a terrible situation no matter how you look at it. It`s not my position to judge someone in that situation, but evil for evil is still evil.
I don`t know about this. I know some people who love life so much that if they were a blind paraplegic they would want to stay alive, and I know some people who are perfectly fine but hate life. Some people can get over pain and disabilities and live life the best they can. I really think it should be up to the person to decide if their life is worth living, not a doctor.
Why does this always cut off the end of my message when the counter says I`m still within the 1000 characters? x_x;
didn`t realize there were so many women on this board. since guy`s don`t really have a say in the matter, i could say i`m both anti-choice and anti-life. if a woman can actually go through the process of abortion and feel fine after, she should do as she wants by the law. if abortion were illegal, it wouldn`t really save the lives of babies but risk the lives of the mothers willing to use a coat hanger. its not like the evidence would be hard to get rid of and it wouldn`t be hard to say miscarriage. bob barker wants to make sure you spay and neuter your pets.
I`m on your side, but your logic is flawed.
And lets not argue gay marriage. I`ll nip that one in the bud right now. We`ll have at that one later.
We used to live in a society that permitted the enslavement of minorities. Should we have just dealt with it?
(Not trying to make anyone pissed here btw.)"
Well there`s your problem.
Does this make you happy? :)
"You don`t see pro-choicers out there killing anyone." Probably the funniest thing I`ve heard today. That`s kinda what being pro-choice is all about.
Yeah, he does that. Just ignore what he says, it`s never worth reading anyway. Eventually he`ll go too far and get himself banned.
So pro-life people are killing people.. There`s your hypocrite.
madest "All pro-lifers should be labeled what they really are: TERRORISTS!"
Well hot damn! We have a full fledged hypocrite on our hands here! I`m going to go ahead and not read anymore of your comments since you have yet to make a valid point and you aren`t a very good or entertaining troll. Have fun though.
(Not trying to make anyone pissed here btw.)
It`s true. As a female teenager, living with uptight, overprotective parents, I was too embaressed and nervous to find out where to recieve help, how and where I can recieve contraceptive pills.
I think the society needs to be a little less uptight when it comes to sex and their children (OK, you know I mean teenagers). At least make them feel comfortable with it more so they`ll know where to get help, instead of being too afraid to ask for it and have themselves a baby - accidentally.
Ooo, witty for a troll. Keep trying, maybe you`ll get someone to react.
And how in fact would my adoption of a child decrease abortion? I`m thinking that most abortions happen because the mother doesn`t want to be pregnant, not because she`s poor. Furthermore, when did killing someone become a better choice than allowing them a life? Who are you to say their life is *too* miserable?
Teenagers are going to be having sex no matter what. That`s why you should teach them safe sex. Teach them how to use a condom, show them where to get birth control pills. You simply can`t ignore this issue and it`ll go away. Teenagers have sex. It`s a biological instinct. However, teach them the SAFE way to do it and abortion won`t be an issue.
Okay, really leaving for my errands now.
Only if you believe that abortion is murder. This is where we disagree.
Actually, I have no where near the means to raise a child. It would be foolish of me to try. I do donate (when I can) to several charities that help take in unwanted children. Also, I am able to understand birth control and as such I don`t have any unwanted babies, but if I did I would take responsibility and raise the child instead of taking the easy way out and killing it.
But no, I don`t agree that abortion should be used as some form of contraceptive, if it`s entirely the couple`s fault for not practicing safe sex.
Nebbie: A man was killed in cold blood in the name of God. This man was protecting people`s "God-given right" to choose. And some religious fanatic decides he`s going to take the law into his own hands.----A-drating-men.
I have errands to run now, so I can`t continue the discussion, but feel free to respond.
Sorry, but making a mistake is not an acceptable reason for committing murder.
If you can`t handle intelligent discussion then go somewhere else. Pretty simple.
I don`t applaud the murder of anyone. I feel terrible for his family, no one should have a loved one die like that. However, I find it hard to stir up compassion for him himself, as I do regard him as a murderer.
Your reasons why the murder of children is acceptable are
1. They haven`t seen the light of day. Kill the blind!2. They don`t retain memories. Kill the senile!3. They aren`t self-aware. Kill babies!
That argument is ridiculous. "That poor woman, she must have been really upset by having to murder a baby," doesn`t make much sense. I understand that many abortions stem from terrible things, but evil to remedy evil is not right.
I must argue the point that that child inside the womb has not had any of those experiences etc. to consider it a "life". Although, I do see the point of pro-lifers, and I don`t particularly agree with late-term abortion (the closer to being born the more alive that child seems) I simply think there are certain situations where a little compassion on that mother is needed. She had to have a horrible time of deciding whether or not to abort, and who knows her story?
On the comment about coma patients, they HAVE had those experiences of a life. They`re simply being halted for a time; a baby who has not been born has not had those experiences.
So it is acceptable to kill a child until it is a year or two old?