Late-Term Abortion Dr George Tiller Shot, Killed

Submitted by: allen98601 8 years ago in

Tiller was shot this past Sunday morning as he was entering his church. Controversy has followed him for decades.
There are 329 comments:
Male 438
primetimekin
Male, 13-17, Southern US
7241 Posts Monday, June 01, 2009 2:15:28 PM
"You`re not pro-life if you`re out killing doctors, ladies and gentlemen."

To be fair, they possible saved a few more lifes.

Not really, those women must of had a somewhat sound reason for abortion and if they didn`t would you want such an unfit mother raising a baby sucking up your tax dollars? Pro-lifers are quick to send someone to war but critics when a women can`t raise a baby and needs an abortion. Defend peoples rights, not an unborn babies rights. People are irresponsible, yes, but you can`t infringe on their life for an unborn baby.

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Female 320
Appejoe, I never claimed to be prolife and I`m american.
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Male 56
i love americans.......you claim to be pro life yet willingly commit murder do you not read your own bibles you inbreeding child molesting goat drating hypocrites thogh shall not kill?
idiots
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Male 992
poo happens......when poo happens to a babykiller, I care even less.
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Male 50
Usually I enjoy it when my city is put on National News but not for something like this. This is just horrible.
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Male 189
Exactly, damn those rape and incest whores.
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Female 71
It`s been reported that the human females only carry to term 1/3 or their fetuses - (without elective abortion) they have spontaneous abortions (miscarriages) 3/4 of the time. Most do not know they were even pregnant. WoMan is the only mammal this happens to. Does anyone think God is asleep here?
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Male 138
im not saying he deserved it....but a lotta people would
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Male 362
@jmuamy

The definition of murder isn`t an opinion. Killing a fellow human is not subject to debate, it is what it is. The fetus is a human, and killing it would be murder. Like I have stated before, it`s not murder in a legal perspective, and I would hope it stays that way.

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Female 39
"Pro choice ought to mean choosing to use a rubber or keeping your damn knees together."

Yeah those damn rape and incest whores.

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Male 4,290
"Kill 1 save a thousand

thats +999 in my books. Simple math here"


You`re right prime. Pre-emptive strikes are the way to go.

Let`s kill all pro-lifers, because God knows how many doctors they`ll kill in the future, like they did to this guy.

After all, a set amount now is surely less than a possibly infinite amount in the future, right?

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Male 189
Can I respond to a response from 10 pages ago?

"We used to live in a society that permitted the enslavement of minorities. Should we have just dealt with it?"

We did deal with it. On the down side, dealing with it started a war, another reason why I threw the "without adding to the death toll" line in there. As far as the "pro choice / anti choice" argument, the baby boy/girl getting killed doesn`t get to choose. Which do you think they`d choose if given the choice? But, I`m sure that`s just semantics.

Pro choice ought to mean choosing to use a rubber or keeping your damn knees together.

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Female 41
Victory-- it is not "technically" murder. That is an opinion, not a fact, so you can`t claim that it is "technically" anything.
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Male 362
I`m opposed to abortion because it technically is murder. Regardless of what stage the fetus is at, it`s murder to kill an unborn child. Do I think it should be treated as a felony crime? No, of course not. I do, however, know that just like Prohibition, if a thing is banned it will always continue to go on regardless of what the law says. At least if it`s legal the woman won`t have to go to the streets to rid herself of a severely deformed child growing inside her. I oppose it on moral grounds, but I support it on the terms of legality, seeing as the Constitution never makes a note about it, and has never been seen as a real legal issue until just recently.
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Male 19
Kdawg wouldn`t be laughing if someone late-term aborted his mother, or someone he cared about. No one has any sympathy anymore.
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Male 182
ignorance must truly be bliss eh kdawg?
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Male 172
Haha, now that`s late term abortion for ya! I guess if you called him a fetus its ok. Too bad his name wasn`t fetus. haha
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Male 844
personally, i`m all for abortions. - They can solve the population crisis along with contraceptives.

Anyway, its the mothers choice to get an abortion or not. The public has no vote in what happens to a mother`s fetus.

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Male 5,189
"I mean really, is it so hard to just take one for the team and put the child up for adoption? If you don`t want it, well okay, but completely denying it of its existence is kind of selfish IMO."


There are plenty of kids in adoption places already. Need to thin those out before more get tossed in there.:)

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Female 1,496
Rot in Hell Tiller.
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Male 467
Was his name John Connor by any chance? If so, the alien-robot-invasion-from-Mars might be closer than we think.. Also, maybe he himself was a terminator sent to terminate John Connor as a fetus. I wonder who terminated the terminator? I suppose we shall never know..
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Male 807
Looks like someone gave him a late term abortion.
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Male 50
"Also.. where do robots come into play here at all? How is that relevant? Because robots are on Mars, the government should be able to claim every woman`s uterus as its own public property? I don`t think so"

clearly it is because we need every human being to fight against the inevitable invasion of alien andriods from mars.

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Female 778
i don`t think it`s right that this happened, but i can`t honestly say i`m upset by it.
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Female 1,677
I`m pretty sure this was mentioned earlier, but just to reiterate: Late-term abortions generally aren`t just some last-minute change of mind. They`re on the whole performed on women who found out the fetus has severe medical issues, or on women whose pregnancies are endangering their own lives.

Also.. where do robots come into play here at all? How is that relevant? Because robots are on Mars, the government should be able to claim every woman`s uterus as its own public property? I don`t think so.

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Male 34
This actually happened 3 blocks away from where I was working at the time he was killed. Pretty strange.
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Male 3,255
Late-Term abortions? Rofl, Seriously? Is this 1709?

Good. I hope he suffered a while before he died.

How could you even preform one? I would be getting all ready and prepped to do it and then I would think: "Wait... haven`t we progressed as a society to the point were we have ROBOTS ON F*CKING MARS? That`s right we have, I guess I physically can`t do this then. Oh well."

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Male 15,510
Its so easy for us to talk and discuss about abortion, after all, we are already alive...
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Male 7,933
"Should I be surprised that a pro-lifer is attempting to justify homicide? ...Nah."

Kill 1 save a thousand

thats +999 in my books. Simple math here

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Male 2,605
"To be fair, they possible saved a few more lifes."

Should I be surprised that a pro-lifer is attempting to justify homicide? ...Nah.

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Male 19
I like kittehs
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Female 15,763
Um... so... kittens... eh? >_>;;
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Male 713
How is abortion a controversial subject? theres so much POTENTIAL LIFE that is naturally eradicated. Don`t say abortion isn`t "natural".
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Female 1,077
I can`t contribute to this without feeling like I`m being insulting to someone. Good discussions going on though.
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Female 1,264
I just have something to say about this. Late-term abortion= stupid. It`s too risky.
Poor guy though...I`m glad in my country, abortion doctors are not shot.
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Female 654
Just to summarise everything...

Abortion - Very delicate subject.

Internet. Srs business.

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Female 2,289
I think that if you want to take your life, you should be allowed to. Unless there is a way to talk you out of it. Either way, if a person is going to kill theirself... there is no way to stop them, they will find a way no matter what.
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Male 7
Brit566, you`re clearly a very strong minded person with very strong pro-life views.

However, you and someone else earlier somewhere had a similar argument..
"Don`t you think it`s the childs choice if he/she want`s to live?"
Now, let`s say HYPOTHETICALLY this child doesn`t want to live. Hypothetically! Your reasoning suggests they are entitled to kill themselves, yet this is completely against pro-life views

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Female 2,289
Everybody is right.

I`m too young to give a sh*t about all of this. I have other stuff to worry about... like pimples.

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Female 2,674
Shadow_Wolf, thanks :3
britt566, you say you would choose to die instead of getting an abortion and okay, that`s your choice (though if the situation ever arises, I wouldn`t be surprised if you didn`t follow through with that). I, as well as most other women, would NOT want to die to save the fetus. I already explained the different reasons why I wouldn`t give up my life for the fetus though, so I wont repeat it. We shouldn`t be FORCED to keep a child that could kill us. "Pro life" people want abortions to be illegal, so they want to force women to keep a child that could kill them (considering even a healthy pregnancy and child could result in death to the mother).
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Female 475
yeaup. Welcome to Wichita!

)-|

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Female 2,289
I believe that anybody can have an abortion if they want. I don`t think anyone should take that choice away from them. I`m just stating how I feel about it.
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Male 193
I don`t think ANYONE is qualified to comment until they`ve been there. I know people who`ve had abortions and it was, for every one of them, the hardest thing they`ve ever done.

Unless you`ve been involved in an abortion situation, whether as the man or as the woman in the partnership, epsecially if the woman, then you simply can`t understand the magnitude of the emotions at play.

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Male 7,378
Exactly Bodecea, If men carried babies abortions would be as available as a cup of coffee
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Female 1,677
And everybody (meaning women too) has the right to OWN THEIR OWN BODY. Don`t you tell me what to do with my reproductive organs, and I won`t tell you. You don`t believe in abortion? THEN DON`T HAVE ONE. If you think everybody who has had an abortion, or who supports abortion, is morally wrong, well then sleep soundly knowing we`ll all burn in hell one day and leave it at that and I`ll sleep soundly knowing I have autonomy over myself.
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Female 2,289
Opinion**
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Female 1,677
Okay I missed the party but here`s my two cents:

I`m totally for abortion. I used to say I was pro-choice, but qualify it by saying "but I would never have one". Well I`ve done some growing up and you know what, I would have one.

Pregnancy grosses me out and is probably my biggest fear in life after cancer. I never want to have children. So does that mean I should never have sex? Um, no. Sex is not just a tool for procreation, it`s a fun activity (necessity even). If you want to procreate, go nuts. But don`t force ME to if my contraception fails, or `god forbid` I forget to use some.

Also putting restrictions on who can get an abortion is just a way to punish women. Seriously. "If she was raped, she can have an abortion. Oh, but if she CHOSE to have sex, well too bad for her, that skank has to grow a kid in her and be reminded of her crappy choices in life". drat that noise. Everybody has sex, everybody has the right to have sex.

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Female 2,289
I`m not meaning to lecture anyone. I`m just giving out my 13-17 year old stupid opinon that doesn`t matter. That`s all.
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Male 4,290
Prevention is much better, but abortions are often necessary for a variety of reasons. I am pro-choice.
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Male 352
I don`t get how "Well it`s not a person YET, so it`s ok"

That`s like saying if there are a bunch of parts to a computer, that hasn`t been built yet, and I smash all the parts to hell, and then when the owner freaks out I say "Well it wasn`t a computer yet"

And the whole "It`s the womans body" thing is pretty flawed too, because what if there are conjoined twins, and one of them kills the other, because it`s "His body"? Does that justify it?

I mean really, is it so hard to just take one for the team and put the child up for adoption? If you don`t want it, well okay, but completely denying it of its existence is kind of selfish IMO.

Of course that`s just my opinion.

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Female 2,289
Here`s everything else I have to say.

Abortion is wrong and my opinion matters. My age has nothing to do with it. If you want to get an abortion... Get an abortion. Live with what you did for the rest of your life or forget about it and go on. That preacher dude didn`t deserve to die. It was very wrong and very hypocritical for someone to do if this is their reason.

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Male 19
Britt556

That`s because China is a totalitarian regime that Regulates who has kids and how many and of what gender. Their education system(much like japans) is also far more aggressive and competitive then ours is. We have the choice to be drop outs, they don`t. Lack of freedom and all.

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Female 2,289
Also, there are little children in china smarter than most adults in the usa.
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Male 243
drating christians think they control the drating world. I have no problem with religion until they start to do poo like this it pisses me off. Why do they care if someone gay gets married or someone else has an abortion it doesn`t even affect their lives
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Female 178
Oh my gosh, that poor man. That poor family. I am a total pro-lifer, and I think what he did was wrong, but it`s so horrid that some one took his life, How selfish is that? He had kids, he had grandkids..he had a wife.

I pray that God accepted him into heaven, understanding the hardship he probably went through just to kill those babies. And I hope all the babies that were aborted and are now in heaven forgives him.

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Female 2,289
madest, Either come back when you gain maturity, or go f*ck yourself.

What you said was wrong. Every opinion matters. Obviously my opinion matters to you or you wouldn`t be reacting to it.

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Male 19
madest

Agreed, though I wouldn`t have put it so... offensively. Everyone was(is) young and stupid once, even einstein.

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Female 2,289
Some people say that a baby isn`t a life until it`s born.

A baby isn`t a life until it`s heart starts beating. Which is while it`s still in its mother.

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Male 7,378
Britt, You`re too young to have an opinion yet. Grow up, get knocked up in the bathroom of some skeezy bar. When you realize you can`t afford to raise what will clearly be the retarded child you`re about to give birth to AND study for the GED simultaneously is when you should come back and give us your wisdom.
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Female 2,289
Also, if you have a baby through rape and the baby reminds you of what happened that one time... That one time is always going to be with you. Baby or not... Having an abortion is just going to make the memory worse.
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Female 2,289
It doesn`t matter if very few share my opinion. If it was me and I had to make the choice. I would choose for me to die to save my baby. It`s better for a child to feel as if they killed their parent rather than the parent to KNOW they killed their child.

If a child grows up think they killed their mother, they really need someone to talk to. They need to understand that their mother die to save their life, not that they killed their mother. It`s better than growing up think that your mother was meaning to abort you to save her life but someone forced her to have you and she died.

I hope that makes sense.

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Male 19
LillianDulci

I agre with you completely. In fact, that you posted is basically the exact reason why I would have no problems with an abortion in a life-or-death situation like that.

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Female 71
Any "pro-lifer" who says they were against Tillers shooting shouldn`t go around calling abortion "murder" as that just incites people like the murderer of Tiller. They are ALL guilty. Also, all the crap about "the baby could have been Beethoven, or Eintstein, or Jesus", or whoever could have also been Hitler, or Stalin, or the Anti-Chirst. Lame.
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Female 2,674
That was a response to the "Abortion is VERY wrong and NO MATTER WHAT have your baby or don`t have sex..." post by the way.
Also, by unwanted I also include a pregnancy that is a high risk for death to the mother. Pregnancy itself increases the chance of death for the woman, so any woman forced to keep an unwanted pregnancy would be risking their lives.
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Male 19
Britt556

The reasons I gave are the only cases I personally could accept it. In any other case I fully believe you should take responsibility for what you have done, you made your bed, now you must lie in it.

A child from rape is a delicate subject. The woman did not consent, was forced upon, and became pregnant as a result. It`s something I would give the poor girl full choice in the matter. Can you even imagine what that would be like? How life-altering and world-shattered that experience would be? If kept the child would be a constant reminder of that horrible act. Some could look past it. Some couldn`t. Either way I feel that it should be their choice.

Besides, how do you know what you would do, if that happened to you? Just like if you had a child with someone you loved, and you find out that the pregnancy would kill you, and you must decide who lives? You can say you`d to this and do that, but all that changes when it really happens, when your times up and its do or die.

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Female 2,674
britt566, that`s your opinion but it`s not everyones opinion. You asked someone if they thought the babys life was more important than the woman. No, it`s not, unless she chooses to make it more important. I plan to have 6 children (through birth/adoption) as well as be the soul provided of my family. What if I`m pregnant with baby number 2/3/4/5/6 and my life is in danger? It`s better to leave my children motherless and in poverty? Even if it`s baby number 1, it`s better my other children to never get the chance to live and my husband to be a widow and my child to know that s/he is the reason I died and for him/her to feel that s/he murdered me? It`s better for me to not be able to know my own child or to make my plans for my life play out as I wished they would?
Guess what! Your opinion isn`t shared by many people, so illegalizing abortion wouldn`t reduce abortions at all. It`d harm more women and children. Most of us don`t want to risk our lives with an unwanted pregnancy.
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Female 2,289
Thank you, crimson! Great video. I don`t see anything wrong with it to not let it be aired.
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Male 363
anyone see that banned commercial about abortion. i thought it was quite moving.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2CaBR3z8...

sorry for the tranquil comment in the midst of your heated debate =D

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Female 2,289
wouldn`t**
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Female 2,289
justjason, end the pregnancy just because you know that the baby would be able to talk until age 3? If THAT is what causes a person to have an abortion, they don`t deserve to have kids. If a child has a learning disability, don`t have the kid? That`s f*cked up.. just because a child doesn`t learnt he way others do, doesn`t mean they can`t learn at all. Just because a child is born a certain way, doesn`t mean they don`t have feelings.

My brother has learning disabilitys and he thanks god every day that he is alive. My parents and others have worked with him through out his whole life and he acts just as normal now as any other 19 year old.

When my uncle was born, the doctors said that he wouldn`t live past the age of 20. My great grandmother (who is still alive by the way)was scared and hurt. Well he lived to the age of 20 and guess what? He`s still alive today.. In his late 60`s.

To each his/her own though.

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Male 19
Justjason44

I realize that. What I said was also geared toward FATAL diseases. And that I leave the decision to the parents. I would hope they have enough humanity in them to give the child a chance, but it isnt always so. Deafness isnt fatal. Neither are mild cases of cerebral palsy, emmerging as clumsiness, or being just a tad slow. My neice falls under the latter. She`s two, can`t speak a word, but shes getting there, and bound to start within a year. It doesnt mean she couldn`t do amazing things with her life. And shes got a killer right hook.

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Female 2,289
Either way, Abortion is VERY wrong and NO MATTER WHAT have your baby or don`t have sex... cause EVERYONE whould know that if you`re going to have sex that condoms and birth control are not 100% safe. If you get pregnant from rape, still have this baby. It`s yours. It`s your first child. It`s not just your baby, it`s your life. Everybodys child is their life. If you take your baby away from the world, you`re taking yourself away from the world. This thing is a part of you. It`s growing and growing and it`s life is in your hands.
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Male 97
Shadow Wolf you are so right... you should be able to end your pregnancy because of any reason in your third point.

Why should any child with such handicap be forced to suffer through such things. I mean what if the child tested for a learning disability that would cause them not to speak till the age of 3. End the pregnancy.

Or if you knew the child would be born with a condition that would end up rendering them deaf... Hwy make that child suffer either.

Just so you know... the first child was Einstein... the second was Beethoven. The fact is you never know what a child COULD become just because they have a disability.

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Female 2,289
People keep talking about if the baby turns out to be born disfigured or brain dead and others that it should be aborted to save it a life of hell. Don`t you think it`s the childs choice if he/she want`s to live? Can`t they make that choice later on? That`s like waiting till the child is like 10 years old and say something like "you`re living a bad life... I shouldn`t have had you. I should have aborted you to save you from this horrible life that you are living." How do you think that would make the child feel? I`m pretty sure that the child would be hurt.
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Male 19
Errr Can`t say I blame her either way
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Male 19
Britt556

It`s not my place to put a value on life, be it newborn or been around the block a couple times. And its human nature to look out for the self. Self-perservation is our strongest urge. If one must die for the other to live, thats a decision the mother and father have to make, and live with for the rest of their lives. If the baby would die anyway... And if the mother was the one in danger... That`s her choice, whether to sacrifice herself for her child or go the route of self-perservation. Can say I blame her either way.

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Female 2,289
One if we ALL knew that the baby could feel pain while being aborted. Would we all still be for it?
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Female 2,289
Shadow_Wolf, you said: "If doctors knew for certain the mother and/or child would die during childbirth, I leave the decision to the mother(after all it would be her life at stake)"

Don`t you think that a babies life matters more than an adults?

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Female 2,289
Why go to church if you`re for killing babies?
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Male 19
Though I largely disagree with abortion, there are a number of instances where I `personally` would agree. First of which is a child resulting of rape(a horrid crime in and of itself) The woman did not consent to have sex, did not consent to have the child. I would definitely leave that for the woman to decide, and would not think less of her either way. Second: Complications during pregnancy. If doctors knew for certain the mother and/or child would die during childbirth, I leave the decision to the mother(after all it would be her life at stake)
Third: Permanent and fatal disfigurement/disease/genetic disorder, whatever you would consider it, though it would be the hardest call(for me to make) If the child would live a short miserable life in pain...

It`s not a call I could make, but I know if I myself were horribly disfigured now(fall renders me permanently paralyzed, brain dead ect. ect.) I would find a bullet to eat. I would rather die than live like that.

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Male 19
As far as the actual discussion goes, I can`t take either side. I can feel for the mothers enough to not be completely pro-life, but at the same time my morals prevent me from completely condoning abortion. Part of the problem lies in education and repressive upbringing.... kids are not taught what they need to know, and they are too embarrassed to ask their parents for help.

If sex ed was enforced, parents brought them up in an atmosphere where they feel they can ask them about Anything... and contraceptives were very cheap and easy to obtain there wouldn`t be a problem. If proper precautions are taken you Can`t have a kid. Taking the pill(or insertable contraceptives) tends to regulate your period and generally (99%) prevents pregnancy. If you really want to play it safe, plot your periods, use condoms about 2 weeks before it starts. Sperm don`t live long(3-5 days at most) eggs even less(2-3 max) as long as nothing gets in there during that time period, nothing happens.

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Female 61
Let me get this straight... A pro-life christian killed a abortion doctor?? Does anybody see the hypocrisy?? I swear too many dumb f*cks in this planet.
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Male 516
gorgack: "Fact is, a child brought up by these kind of parents is not going to become the next Einstein. Just another chav."

That`s not fact at all, dude! That`s just a very, very generalized theory. How can you say that? How do you know one of those kids wouldn`t turn out to be the next Einstein?

My problem with abortion isn`t necessarily the killing of an unborn child, it`s the fact that people use it to escape from their choices. They chose to have sex without a condom or protection. We live in a world now where consequences don`t really apply anymore. Got pregnant because you`re a moron? Get an abortion. No, don`t take responsibility for your actions, just take the easy way out.

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Female 1,004
And from the title, I seriously thought someone came up and blew this man away, saying it was a Late-Term abortion.
Yeah, that`s pretty late right there
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Female 1,004
Ignoring all 11 pages of what is being said: I believe in choices. Don`t believe in abortions? Don`t get one. No one`s forcing you to, so don`t force others not to.
I personally think there are enough human beings on this planet already, so any way to keep our numbers from growing should be welcomed...
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Male 19
Jesus Christ. I make one miffed, joking comment at Falcone just because He thinks anyone pro-life should be quarantined and it turns into this virtual poostorm. It`s not like I was serious about killing them FFS.
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Female 12
Is it bad that I find this a little funny?
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Female 1,412
too much of a controversy here to even comment
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Female 650
I had NO IDEA who this was and that makes me sad.
Time to go learn.
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Male 4,680
My 2 pence, ignoring the 11 pages of debate which have probably already covered this:
Most couples who are stupid enough not to use contraception would not bring the child up right anyway. Granted, there are a few respectable couples who make a mistake, but a lot of them are underage teens who would bring up the baby to be a chav, if they even brought it up. Fact is, a child brought up by these kind of parents is not going to become the next Einstein. Just another chav.

If you`re American just replace chav with redneck or something. It should work still.

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Female 2,674
If someone wants/has to get an abortion they will get one whether or not they go to that guy to get it. So no, it saved no lives. It only killed one unnecessarily. He was even saving lives, so at best they actually killed more than 1 by killing him (he saves the lives of the mothers, so if they really do prevent anyone from getting a late term abortion by murdering him, it will cause women to die since they can`t abort which could also cause the fetus to die).
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Male 7,933
"You`re not pro-life if you`re out killing doctors, ladies and gentlemen."

To be fair, they possible saved a few more lifes.

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Male 438
Killing someone because you thought it was wrong to kill unborn babies? Cmon
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Male 2,605
You`re not pro-life if you`re out killing doctors, ladies and gentlemen.
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Male 524
Killer should go to jail, simple as that. As for abortion, in my opinion, couples should practice safe sex and use contraceptives if they don`t want a child, and if that doesn`t work, then get an abortion. Like others have said, it shouldn`t be used as a type of birth control, but should be legal. i`m not coming back here, just throwing in my 2 cents.
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Male 586
wow, crazy fundies will kill you now that you don`t believe in their idiotic pro-life dogma.
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Female 1,427
Pregnancy can happen even with safe sexual practices, and in humans sex can be used for pleasure as well as procreation.

Sterilization is also not always a viable solution, as some couples may want to have a child later on in life, and the procedures to undergo sterilization are not always affordable.

Abortion as a last-ditch effort, when safe sex, morning after pills, etc, have been used, is a viable and useful procedure to prevent unwanted children from being born.

Above all, there is no reason that a woman should have to undergo 9 months of pregnancy when she never wanted a child and took extensive means to prevent it. Saying "abstinence is the only solution" is also bullpoo, because there`s no reason a person should be denied pleasure when the risk taken is towards one`s self, and when one has a viable solution to prevent that risk.

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Female 761
Falcone, I haven`t READ anything past the page I responded on, I went out did a few errands came home went on this site to see what new vids are up and I see 243 comments and I was honestly DISGUSTED. I don`t add to this debate because it`s stupid, no one`s opinions are gonna change. I put in my two cents and leave, and I don`t care how anyone reacts, if you wanna get flustered about anything I say, then so be it cause I don`t care. So, I`m outty five thousand from this vid page I`m gonna give you the deuces falcone and PEACE!
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Female 2,674
green_batman, a fetus wont turn into a child without input. It`s mother needs to eat properly and take care of herself or it will be deformed/die. If fetuses just magically floated there without impacting anyone`s life or needing extra care, no one would have a problem with staying pregnant.

Also, someone can get pregnant whilst practicing safe sex. Everyone knows a consequence of having sex is getting pregnant, but a valid way to deal with the pregnancy is to get an abortion. If they realize they can`t afford to take care of a child or wouldn`t be willing to take care of the child (even whilst in the womb) then it is the fetuses best interest to be aborted.

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Female 7
oh and thanks sixclaws...I`ve looked at this from another perspective and...know what? Still wrong...still against the law.
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Female 7
Of course difference of perception could change your opinion. It still doesn`t justify the act. When you pose something that way you are obviously trying to get us to say, "Oh the murder wasn`t that bad." I understand this, why don`t you?
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Female 654
I`m only here and contributing because I`m a troll and I don`t like to see people fighting sometimes and I need to keep my mind off things..

._. <3

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Male 182
je-scream. You are the worst out of everyone. Clearly you have nothing better to do than sit around reading other peoples comments and contributing nothing to the discussion except a judgment on everyone else. Get a life troll.
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Female 728
I need to drop out of the debate now because I have other things to do.
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Female 728
LillianDulci: You don`t seem to understand my argument about what the natural progression is. It takes a certain choice to turn an egg into a fetus. A fetus will turn into a child without any extra input. You can exercise your free will to allow or deny your eggs to become a fetus.

While people do have sex for multiple reasons, they are aware of the consequenses of sex. Procreation will likely happen after one or more unprotected sexual encounters. I don`t care why someone is having sex, but they can`t ignore the fact that a child may result. Consent to sex is consent to pregnancy because there is always the possibility of it happening and the partners almost certainly know it.

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Female 2,674
"it is still possible for a child with one of those deformities to have a fulfilling life"
How do you know? Most deformities that call for a late term abortion are so severe that a child CANNOT have a fulfilling life or even a life at all. In a previous post, I mentioned a skin disease that normally will kill the child within its first year of life as well as cause it to be in extreme pain. Very very very few people with that disease have made it to adulthood, and to make it that far costs thousands and thousands of dollars as well as luck and they spend their whole life in horrible pain. Even if they make it to adulthood, it`s extremely unlikely if not impossible for them to live as long as the average human. Plus, they stay in pain no matter what they do.
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Male 7
rcaroline223, but are you not concerned of the affect the pro-life campaigner whom murdered the doctor has had on your community? Since it has been publicized worldwide that there is at least one murdering extremist vigilante within the prolife community.

The prolife campaigner that killed the doctor has indeed stopped him from carrying out further abortions, but has greatly impacted the respect your community once had.

I personally believe that this campaigner has (unfairly) significantly affected the integrity of the prolife community. But no-one that`s pro-life here has commented on this

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Female 761
wow, 240 comments in what 3 hours, and with all you guy`s bickering the only thing you proved is that none of you have nothing better to do. sheesh, when did i-am-bored turn into i-am-an-idiot-if-i-think-typing-stupid-replies-back-and-forth-non-stop-will-change-someones-strong-opinon-on-hot-social-topics.com? it`s like cnn forum room. Lord Jesus, someone pass me the popcorn cause this crap just keeps getting better and better. tisk.
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Female 2,674
green_batman, choosing to get an abortion is an appropriate choice for someone with an unwanted pregnancy. Consent to sex isn`t consent to pregnancy, we, as humans, have sex for a multitude of reasons. For pleasure, to grow closer to our partner, to procreate, and any other reason someone could think of.
Also, by not having sex when I ovulate or using protection when I have sex, I`m agreeing to killing a potential rational mind. An egg has the potential to grow into a child (it requires sperm, but it still has the potential) just like a nonaborted fetus has the potential. Basically, calling the fetus a potential rational mind and thus it`s bad to willfully kill it is a pretty poor argument in my opinion. I willfully let myself expel eggs instead of trying to fertilize it, so I`m willfully killing it.

nirosaki, lmao!!

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Male 2,313
I am out, enjoy the debate all.
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Male 2,313
Readblink, I was attempting to show Heymrchips how the difference of perception of the doctor could radically change ones view on the justification of the act. He understands this, what can`t you?
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Female 728
madest: As was pointed out before, it is still possible for a child with one of those deformities to have a fulfilling life. By that point in the pregnancy, the fetus has brain activity. It is in some small way aware. The thing that bothers me most about pro-choice arguments, is that they often smack of eugenics. Just because a child has a deformity, doesn`t mean it is worth less than another child.

Furthermore, there are some instances in which it is right for people to impose their beliefs on society. I believe that theft is wrong. It is certainly right to impose that belief on society.

I`m not arguing on religion, and it shouldn`t really matter to you what my religious beliefs are. You are, simply put, being a bully.

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Female 26
I am against murder in ALL forms. The misguided fool who killed this doctor was going against the belief of the pro-life community. We value LIFE in ALL of its forms. Born and unborn. Murdering an abortion doctor is NOT the answer. UGH.
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Female 7
"Perhaps they thought that through the killing of one man whom they consider a murderer they would save many more innocent lives. You do not view the doctor as a murderer so you do not share this view, but if you did know a certain man was a murderer who had killed many and would not stop killing, would you then view his slaying differently?"

Sounds like you agree with it to me. Unless you weren`t trying get people to justify it with this comment.

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Female 654
LillianDulci, it`s typical that some men can`t handle it. They don`t trust anything that bleeds for seven days and doesn`t die. Especially if they`re bleeding from their yeahyeahs. :P xD


Know what, I vote a change of nature so that men will menstruate from their penii (whatever the plural for penis is) so that

A: Women will feel better
B: Somehow, someway, everybody will get pregnant and we will be forced to practice super-duper safe sex!

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Male 2,313
"Just because the man was able to mentally justify it to himself doesn`t make the act right...so unless you agree with his justification I hardly see how it`s valid."

I never said it was valid and I don`t agree with it.

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Male 2,313
Heymrchips, you don`t need to explain things to madest, He`s just a troll. We`ve all agreed to ignore him.
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Female 7
"No, I am not. I was attempting to show what I believe the man was thinking when he justified the act."

Just because the man was able to mentally justify it to himself doesn`t make the act right...so unless you agree with his justification I hardly see how it`s valid.

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Male 7
Hang on, Sixclaws response to my bush remark was not justifying the murderer, but explaining their possible reason for committing the murder
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Female 728
LillianDulci: It isn`t your responsibility when an egg goes unused. An egg will only develop into a child under specific circumstances that are not particularly easily fulfilled. It is natural for women to menstruate. It is not natural for people to intentionally kill a fetus. After the specific circumstances are fulfilled that create a fetus, it will grow into a child. An egg will not spontaneously grow into a child. I`m clearly not arguing that women should be pregnant at all times. It is a ridiculous suggestion, and one that is often made to try to undermine prolife sentiment. I`m saying that once the fetus is created, it should be left to develop. It takes a choice on the part of the parents to create the child, and they should be held responsible for making that choice. I will say now that those people who are not fully informed about the results of sex are not responsible because they were not making an informed decision. That is why I think sex ed should be taught.
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Female 2,674
nirosaki, it was men :P I assumed they`d be fine with what little I was mentioning because my boyfriend has always been fine when I mention anything about menstruation to him, even before we were dating. Some guys can`t take it I guess, though I don`t think there`s anything disgusting about it. It`s a natural thing that almost every single woman goes through!
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Female 2,509
waded thru most of the poo. this is the best one liner...

He wasn`t murdered. He was "late-term aborted."

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Male 2,313
"It`s all well and good for having your personal beliefs on abortion, but are you seriously defending murderers here?"

No, I am not. I was attempting to show what I believe the man was thinking when he justified the act.

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Female 654
LillianDulci, was the class full of men or were they girls there who hadn`t had a period before?

I don`t think going into detail about menstruation is so bad. But I`m a pretty open (minded, and talking-wise!) person about most things, which can sometimes be a bad thing and then I don`t understand why people can`t handle hearing the little details or in-depth stuff?

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Female 215
"True, but the assassination of Bush wouldn`t stop any deaths from occurring, at this point at least. The person who killed the doctor thought that doing so would save (and here, at least, he is likely correct) many potential lives. He viewed himself as sacrificing his life and future to allow the unborn a chance. Call it religious zealotry, but he was committed to his beliefs, be they wrong or right."

It`s all well and good for having your personal beliefs on abortion, but are you seriously defending murderers here?

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Female 2,674
green_batman, that has nothing to do with what I said though. My whole point in this discussion with you was that my eggs are just as much potential rational minds as an embryo/fetus. Given the opportunity, both will develop into a child. So based on the logic that killing a potential rational mind is wrong, I should also be trying to get pregnant every single month. Not trying is willfully killing it.
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Female 728
madest: As I have said already, this isn`t a religious matter to me. And there have been plenty of logical and biological reasons presented as to why it is just as wrong to kill a fetus, particularly late-term. If you would take the time to listen, rather than simply name-calling over and over, you might learn something.
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Female 7
Heymrchips....thank you so much! Why is everyone arguing about abortion. A man was murdered...no matter what he did it isn`t OK or a victory for anyone. If you think it`s okay to murder someone because you don`t agree with them (he wasn`t breaking the law, remember?) how long until we have millions of vigilantes running around murdering people because they feel it is the "right thing to do"?

And also...to people who say life begins at conception so they use birth control. What about people who believe that even the use of birth control is murder. Do they have to right to demand we ban contraceptives (or kill the makers of contraceptives?)

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Female 2,674
nirosaki, okay xP It`s hard to tell sometimes, I was told off for going into too much detail about menstruating before. It wasn`t even close to the detail they give in sex ed classes that I assumed the majority of people had already taken @[email protected];
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Female 728
LillianDulci: The difference is that one is a natural occurence and the other is intentionally caused to happen. Morality only applies to people. Nature can kill with impunity, but people need to take a moral high ground.
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Male 2,313
True, but the assassination of Bush wouldn`t stop any deaths from occurring, at this point at least. The person who killed the doctor thought that doing so would save (and here, at least, he is likely correct) many potential lives. He viewed himself as sacrificing his life and future to allow the unborn a chance. Call it religious zealotry, but he was committed to his beliefs, be they wrong or right.
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Male 7
"A whole ideology cannot be judged by the actions of one extremist"
Sadly greenbatman, I would like to agree with you but I`ve seen too many example in Britain of muslims being harshly treated by the effects caused by a miniscule extremist minority. It`s sad and ridiculous I know
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Female 654
LillianDulci

I was only joking dear. :)

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Female 2,674
nirosaki, I figured people here were mature enough to be okay with me hardly describing how fertilizing an egg happens. My bad?

green_batman, I mentioned that an aborted fetus won`t grow into a child because you said a menstruated egg wont grow into a child but a non aborted fetus will. A menstruated egg is similar to an aborted fetus, both wont grow into a child. If the egg isn`t expelled and is fertilized, it will most likely grow into a child. I was simply pointing out that comparing a nonfertilized expelled egg to a non aborted fetus and saying one will grow into a child and the other will not isn`t a good comparison since if the fetus is aborted it will also not grow into a child.

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Male 7
Sixclaws I appreciate what you`re saying, but more people were killed (internationally) by president bush through his actions, than this doctor. Yet it isn`t right however to assassinate Bush
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Female 728
madest: Not only are you still name-calling, but you are trying to claim one person as the archetype of prolifers. You don`t seem to realize that both prolife and prochoice people are individuals with varying ideas and viewpoints. Furthermore, sixclaws13 has still presented a far more logical argument than you.
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Female 728
"Do you not think that this action has lost the integrity of the prolife campaign since murder is exactly what we are to believe you are against?"

I think that it is a hit to the integrity of the person. A whole ideology cannot be judged by the actions of one extremist. If it were me, I would try to change the laws and have that man thrown in jail. I think that murdering him was wrong both morally and legally.

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Female 728
LillianDulci: Yes a child will develop if you have sex. But that requires an input that is not present in your body. And the fact that an aborted fetus will not develop into a child is not the relevant argument, because the debate is about the action that leads to the aborted fetus. Once it is done, nothing can be done to change what happened. We are debating whether it is right to take that step in the first place, however.
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Female 654
I think LillianDulci went into too much detail there..

I`d be much happier if she said a turkey baster and a vial of sperm like in American Dad.

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Male 2,313
"Do you not think that this action has lost the integrity of the prolife campaign since murder is exactly what we are to believe you are against?"

Perhaps they thought that through the killing of one man whom they consider a murderer they would save many more innocent lives. You do not view the doctor as a murderer so you do not share this view, but if you did know a certain man was a murderer who had killed many and would not stop killing, would you then view his slaying differently?

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Male 864
Most love to Madest. :)
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Male 864
Alright, time to hit up Wal-Mart. Have a fantastic day everyone! See you on future posts. Great discussion.

Love you!!!

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Female 2,674
green_batman, if my boyfriend and I have sex and his sperm fertilizes the egg, it will definitely develop. Thus, my eggs are a potential rational mind. Sure, they aren`t equal to a embryo, they are a few steps behind. They are still potential rational minds, though. If I get my period, the egg will not develop into a child. If an embryo/fetus gets aborted, it will also not develop into a child.
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Male 10
Time for me to go...I will leave on this note. People really should not make jusgements on ther people until they have been in those situations themselves or someone close to them has. For me, I find it less morally wrong to kill a fetus then say, kill a convicted murderer. Not the this matters at all, because I am not trying to change anyones mind, nor should it. Thanks all for the convo :)
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Male 864
"When did this turn into a religious debate?"

When did this turn into a debate at all?

We`re on I-am-bored.com. People are bored. Be prepared for this stuff.

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Female 654
If you were holding a baby in one hand (don`t know whose it is. Could be yours, could just be a random baby) and your more loved grandparent/old relative in the other hand, over a cliff, and you were itchy, who would you drop and drag?

(Just answer it. I`m attempting to cool down some flames. It`s erfing Summer, the fire here will burn the entire World)

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Male 7
Getting back to the video..
A doctor performing abortions has been murdered. The police believe the murderer is a pro-life campaigner.

Do you not think that this action has lost the integrity of the prolife campaign since murder is exactly what we are to believe you are against?

Prolife campaigners may have the likelihood of being catergorized as extremists by the media and public, the same as some animal rights group have been.

We can all argue about whether abortion is right or wrong, yet a man has been murdered by, police believe a prolife campaigner. Judging by many of the prolife comments here I feel the prolife group have much less compassion than I previously thought. Most of the arguments raised have little compassion for the mother or indeed the murdered doctor.

The pro-abortion group address gray areas - the well being of the mother, the possible harm to the child if born, etc whereas I feel the prolife argument doesn`t and simply sees everything in black and white

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Male 3,819
Anything interesting going on in here?

Big Gulps, huh? Alright! Well... see ya later!

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Female 215
"I can feel somewhat more empathy for someone who does it early in the pregnancy for health reasons. I can see that being a really grey area in morality. I still don`t agree with it, but I can understand it. It is late term abortions that I find particularly revolting. And there are plenty of people who do use abortion as birth control. I think at the very least, that needs to be stopped."

I agree. I don`t agree with a lackadaisical attitude towards abortion either, but I still think women should have a right to choose. They should, however, think it through heavily, know other options, and take it seriously. See, pro-lifers and pro-choicers can agree. ;)

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Male 2,313
"To me, it is a moral concern."

Me as well. My religious beliefs have nothing to do with my stance on abortion. It comes from my belief that killing babies is wrong.

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Female 728
LillianDulci: Unless you`ve developed parthogenesis, you`re eggs will not spontaneously become a child. A child growing inside you will eventually develop into a person, however. And while an aborted fetus will not become a person, the fetus would have become a person before it was aborted.
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Female 728
When did this turn into a religious debate? Religion has nothing to do with it. I`m agnostic, but pro-life. To me, it is a moral concern.
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Male 2,313
We`re pulling parts of quotes from all over the last 8 pages. It gets confusing.
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Female 2,674
green_batman, My eggs do have the ability to become a rational mind. Yeah, a menstruated egg wont become a child just like an aborted fetus wont become a child, it`s already aborted. Like I said in a previous post here, a huge majority of late term abortions happen in life or death situations. Either the mom will die or the fetus will die or both.
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Female 215
"That`s where you and the religious disagree. We believe that humanity is a step above the animals, created with thinking minds and free will to drive us instead of pure instinct. Religious people shouldn`t use their Bible in debates, since it means nothing to an atheist, but atheists should also realize that points where they differ with the religious should not be taken for granted."

The problem is, the fact that animals are rational is not a personal religious belief. It is science. You can still be religious and know science.

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Male 10
Once again, it isnt black and white. Just because people arent religious doesnt mean they are atheists.
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Male 967
Late-term abortionist gets aborted really late term. It solves itself.
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Female 654
Can I just ask, where the heck are people pulling these random quotes from? Are they just simplifying people`s posts? Because I`m reading and get confused when I don`t see a post that says exactly what somebody quoted. X_X (Unless somebody deleted it?)
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Female 728
Triskele: I can feel somewhat more empathy for someone who does it early in the pregnancy for health reasons. I can see that being a really grey area in morality. I still don`t agree with it, but I can understand it. It is late term abortions that I find particularly revolting. And there are plenty of people who do use abortion as birth control. I think at the very least, that needs to be stopped.
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Male 2,313
"Animals, too, have rational minds. Apes, dolphins, octupi, monkeys, just to name a few. Humans are also animals. We are not our own entire tree of life. We are mammals. How are we different than animals other than a) our minds have a higher capacity and b) we can use tools more proficiently?"

That`s where you and the religious disagree. We believe that humanity is a step above the animals, created with thinking minds and free will to drive us instead of pure instinct. Religious people shouldn`t use their Bible in debates, since it means nothing to an atheist, but atheists should also realize that points where they differ with the religious should not be taken for granted.

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Male 5,314
wow that totally ruined my day. how will i ever continue. oh wait, like this. *whistles*
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Male 10
green--would you consider mothers getting an abortion to save their own life morally wrong? In fact, some religions specicially state that the mother should be saved first.
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Female 654
To the people who say it`s not right for humans to kill at all (I`m speaking on in-general terms now, not just about foeti (Proper plural of foetus btw) I believe that is wrong. Humans are animals, and we do kill.

Humans will kill each other if they feel absolutely necessary.

They will even eat each other, too.

Remember the story, or a boat, leading to nowhere, and a handful of men, with a bundle of straws - one of them much shorter than the rest - and whomever unfortunately chose the short straw was killed and eaten by everyone else.

I`m just babbling btw. I`m not saying we`re eating foeti. Just saying sometimes you have to kill. (I`m not saying we HAVE to kill foeti either, this is just a reply to people who say it`s ABSOLUTELY wrong for people to kill each other no matter what)

<b>[b]Testing html to see which one is correct</b>[/b]

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Female 215
"I totally agree that we need better sex education. I am in no way opposed to non-abortion birth control. It is when people use abortion as birth control that I think it is wrong."

Absolutely. I don`t think using abortion as a form of birth control is right.

I`ve never known anyone in my life that`s had abortion after abortion. The ones that I do know that have had abortions did it because they had no way to provide for their kid or the fetus`s death was inevitable. It was a hard choice for them, and it wasn`t something they did because they just didn`t feel like being pregnant. Also, all but one had first-term abortions.

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Female 728
LillianDulci: It isn`t a potential rational mind when it has no ability to become one. A menstruated egg is not going to become a child. A growing fetus is going to become a child. Late term abortions are particularly horrible because by that point, the child has an independent heartbeat and brain activity.
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Male 864
"All religions are cults"

They see me trollin` they hatin`....

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Male 237
"All religions are cults"

You should probably be banned.

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Female 728
Law allow the government to legitimately punish and/or remove from society those people who commit wrongs. Sometimes it can even prevent the wrongs. Making the wrongs legal does not make them right, so there is no reason to abolish the laws that disallow wrongdoing.
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Male 2,313
"Killing isn`t always wrong, though. People kill animals to eat, kill plants, kill bacteria."

Yes, and some people kill babies, which is where it crosses the line.

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Female 215
"Killing a person is not the same as killing an animal. People have rational minds. Killing a fetus is killing a potential rational mind. Yes I consider myself a Kantian."

Animals, too, have rational minds. Apes, dolphins, octupi, monkeys, just to name a few. Humans are also animals. We are not our own entire tree of life. We are mammals. How are we different than animals other than a) our minds have a higher capacity and b) we can use tools more proficiently?

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Male 864
Green, prove to me that a dog/cat does not have a rational mind.

Can`t do it. Yet I bet I could prove they do.

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Female 2,674
green_batman, I menstruate every month. Technically, that`s killing a "potential rational mind". Should I try to get pregnant every month just so my body doesn`t kill my eggy? No thanks ;)
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Female 728
Triskele: I totally agree that we need better sex education. I am in no way opposed to non-abortion birth control. It is when people use abortion as birth control that I think it is wrong.
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Male 10
Maybe there should be anarchy, because laws rarely hold people back from commiting crimes
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Male 99
I, ah...this abortion issue in the States is dividing the country right in half. You know, and even amongst my friends - we`re all highly intelligent - they`re totally divided on the issue of abortion. Totally divided. Some of my friends think these pro-life people are just annoying idiots. Other of my friends think these pro-life people are evil drats. How are we gonna have a consensus? I`m torn. I try and take the broad view and think of them as evil, annoying drats.
Bill Hicks - a very wise and funny man indeed


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Female 728
LillianDulci: Killing a person is not the same as killing an animal. People have rational minds. Killing a fetus is killing a potential rational mind. Yes I consider myself a Kantian.
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Male 864
BTW calling atheism a religion is like calling bald a hair colour.
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Male 864
I`m not sure I understand what you mean madest... I`m not saying I`m better than anyone... Only that you are being a fool. bringing a knife to a gun-fight and telling everyone they`re dumb cause they are afraid to be primative like you.

You called religions "cults".

Everything you`re saying is only making yourself look uneducated. Save your face.

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Female 215
Exactly Lillian. People choose to do it regardless of laws. The only thing that making it illegal will do is endanger the mother.

Our society needs to stop being afraid of sex. Sex is essential for continuation of a species, and, since we are animals, it is a biological instinct for us as it is for any other creature. Therefore, we need to promote better sex education. Teach teenagers how to use condoms, give out free condoms, promote young girls going to clinics for their birth control, etc. Hell, I`m 20, and I get free birth control through a state clinic. Not only will this prevent teen pregnacies, it will also lower the transmissions of STDs.

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Male 237
"I notice people describing abortion and pro-choicers as "evil" and "morally wrong." Morality is not something that is black and white, there are areas of gray. Just because you disagree with something does not make it "morally wrong." There are obvious things that fall into this category (rapists, murderers, robbers, etc.), but the fact that the morals of abortion are hard to define is what creates this debate."

Absolutely... I feel like the people who understand that a gray area exists/want to talk become background noise while extremists rant and rave.

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Female 2,674
"no matter how much you twist and tweak the labels abortion is still killing a child. "
I never denied that it is killing a FETUS. Of course it is. Killing isn`t always wrong, though. People kill animals to eat, kill plants, kill bacteria. Personally, I go around slaughtering spiders all the time and it gives me great pleasure :D You are anti the choice of abortion, thus anti choice. No other term is more accurate than pro choice and anti choice unless you want to make a long term like pro legalizing abortion and anti legalizing abortion. Just pro abortion and anti abortion don`t work though. Personally, I`m anti abortion because I`d never get one unless it was for medical reasons. I`m definitely pro choice (pro legal abortion, they are synonymous) though.
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Male 10
Sixclaws, I would agree with you, but in no way do I consider unborn fetus` to be equal to born children. Until it can survive outside of the womb, it is part of the mother, it is not its own being.
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Female 7
Pro-life People:
You should do what YOU think is right. If you believe aborting a fetus is wrong, then don`t do it.
I understand that yes, a fetus is a separate being and he/she does deserve to live. In some way, abortion is murder.
However, the problem is that we live in a complex society with different values. Unfortunately for you, the values of other people believe their lives are more important than the upcoming fetus. They believe abortion is better for their well-being.
Even if abortion was illegal, it doesn`t mean it`s going to completely go away. People will try to use other types of abortion that may not be available in clinics, and unfortunately, these methods are dangerous and in the end, we have a dead potential-mother AND the baby.
For those who choose to abort the baby, we should let them choose, and carry on with the abortion safely to prevent unnecessary deaths and illnesses.
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Female 728
BoxedOut: Regardless of the situation, there is still a child being murdered. I can`t think of any situation in which the taking of a life is more right than the alternative.

If people were more responsible for themselves, we wouldn`t have an overpopulation and unwanted child problem. There will always be some people who don`t want to take responsibility for their actions, but a majority of the population should. There has been a decline in the number of people taking responsibility for themselves in America, which is why we have problems with teen pregnancy, unwanted children, and abortion. If the government would stop holding people`s hands and excusing wrongdoing, people would learn to stand on their own feet.

Free will does not outweigh morality. Killing is wrong in all but the most unusual of circumstances, so free will cannot support a decision to kill. If people were allowed to do whatever they wanted under the banner of free will, there would be total anarchy.

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Male 237
"My argument is solid. It doesn`t matter what I think about abortion because 1) I`m a man and can`t get pregnant. 2) I would never assume a role where I felt it was my duty to impose my cults beliefs on the whole of society. Which is exactly what you pro-lifers do.
You are as simple minded as cancer mom who prefers to pray her childs cancer away. Unless you are out there adopting handicapped unwanted children you should be ashamed of yourself and your fellow pro-lifers."

But you didn`t really state a point- you basically just

1) Grouped pro-lifers into a religious group 2) Used insults

I`m not even totally pro-life. It doesn`t really concern me, I get that it`s a hard choice. Maybe you should go rant on a street corner while everyone with some class debates/shares?

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Male 2,313
"If it is not hurting you, what does it matter?"

If someone across the country murders a school full of kids it won`t hurt you. Would you think it matters? 115,000 babies are killed everyday by abortion. I think it matters.

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Male 864
Here comes the onslaught for the word cult.

Madest, you should seriously consider stopping.

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Female 2,674
BoxedOut you are absolutely right. Abortion rates are actually about the same no matter whether it is legal or illegal (I can show the study that proves this if anyone wants to see it). To make it illegal is only to punish the women, not to reduce abortions. Those who are forced to keep their kid and don`t get an illegal abortion would be more likely to neglect/abandon/kill the kid once it`s born. It really solves nothing by making it illegal. What needs to be done to reduce abortions is increasing sex education and making birth control more readily available :)
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Female 215
I notice people describing abortion and pro-choicers as "evil" and "morally wrong." Morality is not something that is black and white, there are areas of gray. Just because you disagree with something does not make it "morally wrong." There are obvious things that fall into this category (rapists, murderers, robbers, etc.), but the fact that the morals of abortion are hard to define is what creates this debate.

That being said, madest, you`re not helping the pro-choice side by attacking pro-lifers with insults.

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Male 201
I`m so glad i live in Sweden. Freedom and personal choice are not just catch phrases in hoolywood movies over here.
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Male 49
This is boring.
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Male 237
"why should i be concerned about what a pro-lifer thinks? They`re dumb. Plain and simple. Dumb like Bush. Dumb like a rock. They`re retarded to think that they are so correct in their (invisible man in the sky) beliefs that they know what everyone should do. Progress is slowed by these morons and now Kansas lost it`s only college grad."

I figure someone who is 40-49 would be able to debate a little better? Google "Weasel Words".

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Male 2,313
"Thus why I (as well as places like planned parenthood) prefer pro choice and anti choice."

You can make up and use a pleasant sounding term for it, but no matter how much you twist and tweak the labels abortion is still killing a child. You can change the name but you can`t change the act. I am not anti-choice. I am anti-choice-to kill-babies. Do you think I should have the choice to burn daycares down? No? Then you are now anti-choice.

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Male 864
How about this: if you believe in God, then you know he`s the only one allowed to judge. In that case, you have no right to judge these women for getting an abortion! What about that, Huh? huh?

And leave your "then we shouldn`t have courts" and "we shouldn`t judge people for killing their neighbour" comments in your head. They are invalid.


That is my impression of madest trying.

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Female 2,674
Triskele, I agree 100% with you. It`s really sad when someone wants to have the child but has to abort late term due to medical reasons.
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Male 10
How about in the situation I mentions or in the situation where it is choosing your life over the fetus` life? Don`t get me wrong, I am anti-abortion, but if abortion were illegal, we would have more problems then we do now. Women would get them with coat hangers, babies would be abandoned and left to die, not to mention issues with larger overpopulation. People were given free will and and a thinking mind for a reason. If it is not hurting you, what does it matter?
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Female 215
Okay, as I was saying. I`m very much pro-choice, but I don`t support late-term abortions "just because." If the fetus is GOING to die shortly, have a very short painful life, and/or puts the mother`s life on the line, then I believe this can be breeched.

That being said, a friend of mine was stupid and got pregnant when she was 19. She decided she was going to carry it to term and give it to a family she knew for adoption. However, 6 months into her pregnancy, her OB/GYN discovered that the child had a severe abnormality... I believe what she said that the internal organs never developed minus the heart, lungs, and brain. She was also at a very high risk of a miscarriage, one that for her would be very severe and put her life on the line. She decided to abort. I think she made the right choice, because a) there was no chance of the baby living, and even if it did, its life would be short and painful, and b) it could have killed her.

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Female 2,674
lordtyusa, why should the woman have to pay for it? Has she not been through enough pain and emotional trauma already? Must she be forced to spend 10 months being controlled by her rapists spawn and go through horrible pain and spend a lot of money because being pregnant isn`t cheap and have a child that is half hers and half the evil mans who raped her? I know I wouldn`t want my DNA mixing with someone like that, I`d only want my DNA mixing with my husband`s.
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Male 864
Madest, read my comments early on in this thread. About being a horrible person to debate with. After that, go to another website.
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Male 301
Well I`ve pretty much said my case. I`ve got errands to run. Peace and love everyone! :-)
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Female 728
BoxedOut: In what situations?
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Male 2,313
"Sixclaws, what about women who got pregnant because they were raped. They didnt decide to have sex and get pregnant."

What about them? That`s a terrible situation no matter how you look at it. It`s not my position to judge someone in that situation, but evil for evil is still evil.

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Male 10
Green..you are assuming that I think that in all circumstances abortion is a morally wrong act. In a few circumstances, I believe is the only correct option.
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Female 728
Madest: If you think that pro-lifers are dumb, why do you bother arguing with them? You`re trying to dehumanize the other viewpoint because you can`t come up with a good argument. Please think through a reasonable argument or stop arguing.
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Male 425
madest, god hasn`t been mentioned yet for some time. Don`t bring religion back into this.
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Male 301
Again...why should the baby pay for the wrongs of the rapist? That seems more unfair to me.
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Female 2,674
sixclaws13, a "pro life" person could go and murder a man, like this guy did. That doesn`t make them pro life but the technical term is pro life which doesn`t make any sense at all that a murderer could be pro life. Pro choice and anti choice make a ton of sense, it refers to the choice of abortion. Thus why I (as well as places like planned parenthood) prefer pro choice and anti choice. Anti life doesn`t make any sense, I`m not anti anyone living. I wish everyone could live. I wish everyone could live the life they choose to live, as well (thus meaning I`m pro life for the women getting abortions, I`m pro them living their life as they choose to).
lordtyusa, I get that a lot lmao :P
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Male 4,163
Nebbie: aye
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Female 728
BoxedOut: Two wrongs don`t make a right. I understand that it would be very emotionally traumatic to have a child produced of rape, but when the mother makes the choice to get an abortion, she is still committing a morally wrong act. Sometimes people have to make difficult choices. Life isn`t always easy and morality isn`t always pleasant.
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Male 10
But why should that woman have to go through 9 months of a reminder of what happened. Also the pain of having birth, seems a little unfair
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Male 301
Then the rapist should pay the penalty...not the unborn child, who also did nothing wrong to deserve death.
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Female 728
Fox News has nothing to do with this debate.
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Male 864
madest, please stop. You`re not helping your case.
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Male 10
Sixclaws, what about women who got pregnant because they were raped. They didnt decide to have sex and get pregnant.
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Male 301
Lillian...you`re pic is creeping me out!!! LOL!
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Male 2,313
Well LillianDulci, I prefer to think of pro-choicers as anti-life. Not really, but wordplay can go both ways. Honestly every (sane) person is pro-choice and pro-life. It`s abortion they`re either for or against.
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Male 301
That is where we differ Tenty.
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Male 425
I have a female double in America :o
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Female 728
What exactly are you referring to about PETA? I don`t think they are a very effective group because they are too extreme. I think they have some good points, but they don`t make them intelligently.
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Male 2,313
"Lord, I would remove that slim chance, along with the greater chance of the child living a short life of agonising pain and depression."

I don`t know about this. I know some people who love life so much that if they were a blind paraplegic they would want to stay alive, and I know some people who are perfectly fine but hate life. Some people can get over pain and disabilities and live life the best they can. I really think it should be up to the person to decide if their life is worth living, not a doctor.

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Female 2,674
them better. Poor guy :(*

Why does this always cut off the end of my message when the counter says I`m still within the 1000 characters? x_x;

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Female 2,674
The majority of late term abortions are done to fetuses that have little to no chance of living to adulthood, or if there is a major problem that would cost both the fetus and the mother their life. For example, there`s a certain skin disease that normally kills the kid within a year. A very tiny amount with the disease will actually make it to adulthood, and to make it there they have to spend thousands and thousands of dollars and even then it`s not a sure thing. Plus, they are in excruciating pain for their whole life.
A very tiny minority of late term abortions are just because the woman doesn`t want to be pregnant. Most women get those abortions before it becomes late term. Those are the only late term abortions that I`m actually against, but they are such a small minority so I doubt this guy performed them.
This further proves how many "pro life" people aren`t pro life at all. I prefer to think of "pro life" people as "anti choice", it fits the
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Male 425
At the end of the day, doctors only give out their proffessional advice based on facts. It`s the patients decision whether or not to have the abortion.
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Male 127
green batmans probably never heard of PETA...

didn`t realize there were so many women on this board. since guy`s don`t really have a say in the matter, i could say i`m both anti-choice and anti-life. if a woman can actually go through the process of abortion and feel fine after, she should do as she wants by the law. if abortion were illegal, it wouldn`t really save the lives of babies but risk the lives of the mothers willing to use a coat hanger. its not like the evidence would be hard to get rid of and it wouldn`t be hard to say miscarriage. bob barker wants to make sure you spay and neuter your pets.

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Male 864
We also live in a society that bans gay marriage. Should that remain the law?

I`m on your side, but your logic is flawed.

And lets not argue gay marriage. I`ll nip that one in the bud right now. We`ll have at that one later.

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Female 728
Madest, you`re eliminating any chance of having your viewpoint taken seriously when you throw insults. Sixclaws13 has debated more intelligently so far than you have. Think through the things you want to say, provide support for your opinion, and then join the debate.
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Male 2,313
"We live in a society that permits the killing of feutses (fetii?). Deal with it with without adding to the death toll."

We used to live in a society that permitted the enslavement of minorities. Should we have just dealt with it?

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Male 425
Lord, I would remove that slim chance, along with the greater chance of the child living a short life of agonising pain and depression.
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Male 2,313
Aye.
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Male 2,313
"Am I not being mean/overeggerating enough for people to quote and bring on the flame or am I just posting useless stuff?

(Not trying to make anyone pissed here btw.)"

Well there`s your problem.

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Male 864
"(Am I not being mean/overeggerating enough for people to quote and bring on the flame or am I just posting useless stuff? :( D: lol)"

Does this make you happy? :)

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Female 728
Yes society does permit killing fetuses, but some of us think that it is morally wrong. That`s where the argument stems from. The government isn`t always right.
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Male 864
I impose a vote. All in favour of Madest shutting the hell up, say "aye"
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Male 189
We live in a society that permits the killing of feutses (fetii?). Deal with it with without adding to the death toll.

"You don`t see pro-choicers out there killing anyone." Probably the funniest thing I`ve heard today. That`s kinda what being pro-choice is all about.

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Female 654
(Am I not being mean/overeggerating enough for people to quote and bring on the flame or am I just posting useless stuff? :( D: lol)
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Male 301
Madest...BOTH sides try to impose their beliefs! That`s why there are laws allowing and banning abortions all over the country. It`s not just the pro-lifers out there that are stirring things up.
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Female 728
@madest: Pro-choicers support killing unborn babies, which invalidates your argument. Also, when people commit random acts of murder that are unrelated to a particular political viewpoint, their political viewpoints are not brought up. Meaning that pro-choicers do kill people sometimes, but that they are not labelled as pro-choicers when they do. Stop acting superior and realize that the people who do extreme acts, such as murder, are the exception and not the rule. The person who shot this man was wrong to shoot him and gives a bad name to pro-lifers, but you can`t argue that all pro-lifers are murderers.
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Male 2,313
"Can someone block madest? He`s making this discussion not very fun... I think we are all mature enough to have a debate minus the insults."

Yeah, he does that. Just ignore what he says, it`s never worth reading anyway. Eventually he`ll go too far and get himself banned.

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Male 301
So Tenty, you would remove ANY chance that fetus has simply because the chances are slim?
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Male 864
Can someone block madest? He`s making this discussion not very fun... I think we are all mature enough to have a debate minus the ass-hole insults.


Pun intended.

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Male 579
so without reading the rest of the comments, I`m sure it`s been said, but I`ll say it again...

So pro-life people are killing people.. There`s your hypocrite.

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Male 864
Great point tenty. To add to it, that`s a number. It`s hard to know how the child`s life could be... But who makes the decision when that chance of a good life is so small?
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Male 425
people, like lord, still not understanding how severely ill these fetuses are... Yes Bifida is a serious disease, but this doctor was aborting ones that stood little chance of living old enough to drive a car or who could enjoy one day without being in agony.
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Male 10
I have always considered the woman to be the patient and not the fetus. If indeed a lot of the late term abortions he performed were due the fetus seriously threatening the mother`s health/life, I do not see how any responsible doctor would not abort the fetus.
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Female 9,560
*don`t, I meant don`t were it has done.
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Male 2,313
madest "Yeah you have no means to do anything except judge people you`ve never met. Way to go genius."

madest "All pro-lifers should be labeled what they really are: TERRORISTS!"

Well hot damn! We have a full fledged hypocrite on our hands here! I`m going to go ahead and not read anymore of your comments since you have yet to make a valid point and you aren`t a very good or entertaining troll. Have fun though.

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Female 654
By the way, really gotta say, really lol at the huge-massive freaking flames and debates going-on here. Who needs more entertainment links when you`ve got this goldmine here to read?

(Not trying to make anyone pissed here btw.)

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Female 9,560
As much I done like abortions, it is vary hypocritical to kill someone and not calling it the same thing.I believe everyone has a right to a FULL life no mater how much you disagree and/or hate them. It`s like having someone join a football team, then telling them they will never play because they suck so badly. What I`m trying to say is if you don`t like abortions because they believe it to be murder, you are a hypocrite if you murder a person who has already gone though the womb and is walking on this earth.
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Female 654
Triskele: Teenagers are going to be having sex no matter what. That`s why you should teach them safe sex. Teach them how to use a condom, show them where to get birth control pills. You simply can`t ignore this issue and it`ll go away. Teenagers have sex. It`s a biological instinct. However, teach them the SAFE way to do it and abortion won`t be an issue.
---

It`s true. As a female teenager, living with uptight, overprotective parents, I was too embaressed and nervous to find out where to recieve help, how and where I can recieve contraceptive pills.

I think the society needs to be a little less uptight when it comes to sex and their children (OK, you know I mean teenagers). At least make them feel comfortable with it more so they`ll know where to get help, instead of being too afraid to ask for it and have themselves a baby - accidentally.

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Male 2,313
"He won`t get anything intelligent from you sixclaws. One of I-A-B`s dumbest commenters."

Ooo, witty for a troll. Keep trying, maybe you`ll get someone to react.

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Male 814
"How many of you anti-abortion nutjobs have adopted unwanted children? Sixclaws, You`re old enough to have a house full of unwanted children. If you don`t have any then you should STFU"

And how in fact would my adoption of a child decrease abortion? I`m thinking that most abortions happen because the mother doesn`t want to be pregnant, not because she`s poor. Furthermore, when did killing someone become a better choice than allowing them a life? Who are you to say their life is *too* miserable?

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Male 301
In a world where parents actually PARENT instead of leaving it up to the TV. I`ve known MANY people who waited until they were married to have sex. And do you know what they all have in common??? Parents who are active and supportive role models in their lives!!!
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Male 301
Actually Spina Bifida is what I have. I have an aunt that has severe mental retardation as well. She is in her late 50`s but functions as a small child. She has health issues that keep her in pain constantly and lacks the mental capacity to fully understand why. My grandparents agreed to not abort her, and despite her pain, you should see the joy on her face when you make her happy! THIS is why abortion is wrong!
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Male 425
So lord... In what world did you imagine all teenagers not having sex?
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Female 215
"You`re right Triskele, 15 year-olds AREN`T responsible! Which is WHY they shouldn`t be having sex in the FIRST place! Teach them responsibility in the first place, and watch this issue go away."

Teenagers are going to be having sex no matter what. That`s why you should teach them safe sex. Teach them how to use a condom, show them where to get birth control pills. You simply can`t ignore this issue and it`ll go away. Teenagers have sex. It`s a biological instinct. However, teach them the SAFE way to do it and abortion won`t be an issue.

Okay, really leaving for my errands now.

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Female 654
Oh, the `f`n` between the `a` and the `men` was meant for emphasis on `amen` and I did not mean `a effing men.`
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Female 215
"Sorry, but making a mistake is not an acceptable reason for committing murder."

Only if you believe that abortion is murder. This is where we disagree.

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Male 2,313
"How many of you anti-abortion nutjobs have adopted unwanted children? Sixclaws, You`re old enough to have a house full of unwanted children. If you don`t have any then you should STFU"

Actually, I have no where near the means to raise a child. It would be foolish of me to try. I do donate (when I can) to several charities that help take in unwanted children. Also, I am able to understand birth control and as such I don`t have any unwanted babies, but if I did I would take responsibility and raise the child instead of taking the easy way out and killing it.

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Female 654
I`m pro-choice.
If the mother never wanted the baby and it was conceived purely by accident or rape then it`ll be better for the baby to `suffer` when it can hardly, or perhaps not feel anything, than to suffer for the rest of its life; loveless mother, possible orphanage, and a lifetime of hard, bitter feelings. It will be how the next Hitler is made!

But no, I don`t agree that abortion should be used as some form of contraceptive, if it`s entirely the couple`s fault for not practicing safe sex.

Nebbie: A man was killed in cold blood in the name of God. This man was protecting people`s "God-given right" to choose. And some religious fanatic decides he`s going to take the law into his own hands.
----
A-drating-men.

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Male 864
We all know arguments like this will never be resolved. There will always be people passionate on either side. The real trick to humanity is if we can all disagree and still have a good discussion on it, share our ideas and still be able to shake hands if we see each other on the street.
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Male 301
You`re right Triskele, 15 year-olds AREN`T responsible! Which is WHY they shouldn`t be having sex in the FIRST place! Teach them responsibility in the first place, and watch this issue go away.
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Female 215
Lordtyusa, your physical disability is obviously something that you can get around and have the strength to overcome. However, there are many fetuses that have disabilities that will inevitably end in a short, painful life. Look at anacephaly. Look at severe spina bifida. Look at progeria.

I have errands to run now, so I can`t continue the discussion, but feel free to respond.

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Male 425
Most people have a disability... I did say sever....
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Male 301
The thing about it is that I totally agree with you Nebbie. I think people cheering this man`s murder are sick. But I also disagree with what this man did for a living. Do I celebrate his death? No. Do I find it oddly ironic...yeah.
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Male 2,313
"So I guess the best solution is to make abortion illegal so teenage and unprepared mothers can raise an unwanted child in poverty, because no one ever makes any mistakes, especially those that live in places where sex ed is not taught and safe sex is not encouraged."

Sorry, but making a mistake is not an acceptable reason for committing murder.

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Male 301
I don`t agree with that either Tenty, and I`ll tell you why: I have a physical disability myself. The doctor wanted to abort me, but my mother said no. As a result, I`m grown, married, have three beautiful adopted children, and two advanced degrees. All of which wouldn`t have happened if my mother had just decided that my life wouldn`t have been worth living, and aborted me.
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Male 2,313
"uuugh, here we go, another debate on a website which has done jack s*%t on actually coming to a sensible conclusion on said debate."

If you can`t handle intelligent discussion then go somewhere else. Pretty simple.

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Male 814
Madest, that claim makes no sense. By your logic, there should be no poverty anywhere because everybody is against poverty. Everybody *is* against poverty, right?
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Female 215
Yes, because 15-year-olds are logical, responsible, and have common sense.
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Male 864
The thing that really bothers me is that people are cheering this man for killing the doctor. He wasn`t breaking any laws. Yet this other man decided it was his duty to make it "right". I dunno. Shooting someone for what they believe just isn`t right no matter what.
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Male 2,313
"He was an American hero and anyone who applauds his death should suffer his fate."

I don`t applaud the murder of anyone. I feel terrible for his family, no one should have a loved one die like that. However, I find it hard to stir up compassion for him himself, as I do regard him as a murderer.

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Male 301
Actually Triskele, the BEST solution is to stop abortions AND stop people from just having consequence-free sex. Teens have sex because their hormones are going crazy, and they know if the condom breaks they can just get an abortion and all`s good again. If you really want abortions to go down then people need to start being held responsible for their actions. And as for your comment Madest...I have three adopted children of my own because mommy was responsible enough to get knocked up, but not responsible enough to handle the results of that fling. Teach people to be self-responsible, and many of today`s problems will vanish.
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Male 425
Can we not agree on abortion being okay to end terminate a fetus what is going to grow up seirously ill? Like the doctor was doing. Most late term abortions are done becuase of sever health risks. Alot of the fetuses wouldn`t last long after birth or will live but in suffering for the short duration of their lifes..
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Male 864
Lord, I don`t think killing hermits should be right. They are having life experiences. Sure they`re different and probably bland, but they are having experiences.
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Male 301
There can never be a sensible conclusion on such debates Guruness. People will always believe what they want to believe and then look for any means to justify that belief. Only people with open hearts and minds have any chance of changing them. The rest will hold true to their individual beliefs. Besides...you honestly expected to come to a valid conclusion on such a heated topic in THIS forum??? LOL!!! I admire your optimism!!! ;-)
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Female 215
So I guess the best solution is to make abortion illegal so teenage and unprepared mothers can raise an unwanted child in poverty, because no one ever makes any mistakes, especially those that live in places where sex ed is not taught and safe sex is not encouraged.
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Male 864
We`re not going by definition alone! And atheists don`t believe God is the only one with a right to kill. God doesn`t exist, therefore, we don`t think in terms of God can or can`t. God simply isn`t, so there`s no point worrying what he can or can`t.
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Male 301
I was responding to Nebbie with the hermit comment.
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Male 931
uuugh, here we go, another debate on a website which has done jack s*%t on actually coming to a sensible conclusion on said debate.
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Male 301
Your sarcasm aside Falcore, you really ought to agree with me on that one. Let`s put it in perspective. If a religious person truly believes that only God has a right to kill, then they wouldn`t kill themselves. And if an atheist believes that God is the only one with the right to kill, well then they are really saying that no one has that right since God doesn`t exist. Either way, no one gets the right to kill for ANY reason. And murder is the ending of another life. And if doctors agree that anything with a pulse is technically living, then there really isn`t an argument here. Those ending a baby`s life are committing murder simply by definition alone!
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Male 2,313
"well lortsyua and sixclaws i never said self-awareness was the decision-maker but simply one reason abortion is acceptable."

Your reasons why the murder of children is acceptable are

1. They haven`t seen the light of day. Kill the blind!
2. They don`t retain memories. Kill the senile!
3. They aren`t self-aware. Kill babies!

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Male 864
sixclaws, if you put it that way it doesn`t make sense. But think about it. "That woman is losing sleep, and tormented because she had to make the decision whether or not to let die the human that was growing inside her." That makes more sense, no? I`m simply saying, so many people are so pissed at these women, but why does nobody care about how these women must feel about it?
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Female 215
How the hell did you come to the conclusion that we all wanted to kill hermits? Also, you`re mixing religion into the equation again.
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Male 2,313
" I simply think there are certain situations where a little compassion on that mother is needed. She had to have a horrible time of deciding whether or not to abort, and who knows her story?"

That argument is ridiculous. "That poor woman, she must have been really upset by having to murder a baby," doesn`t make much sense. I understand that many abortions stem from terrible things, but evil to remedy evil is not right.

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Male 301
Not much Triskele, I`m just trying to follow your line of logic.
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Male 864
Olk. You just gave me a new perspective... If the child could (based on mosts I suppose) survive birth at the point of the abortion, it should be wrong. That`s something I can get behind.
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Male 81
Only God have the right to kill.
For the Atheist, Morals.
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Male 301
So now we are defining life based solely on experiences? So I guess it`s legal to kill hermits! If you want to really discuss this issue (and this goes for EVERYONE here), you really need to start with some simple definitions. For example...you must first define "life". Because if you define life at conception (like Christians do...at least those familiar with their faith), then the ending of a life after that point is murder. If you define it medically then you are talking about at the first signs of independent heart beats...which start somewhere around 3 weeks. So even medically you are committing murder for abortions after that period.
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Male 91
late term abortion should be illegal because at this point the child could survive outside the womb. that being said, whoever shot him in a church is a disgusting bastard for taking the law into his own hands AND defileing a house of God
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Male 425
It`s hard to take the pro-lifers arguments seriously when people start using their religous beliefs.... At the moment Sixclaws13 is the only credible argument..
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Female 215
And yes, agreed Nebbie. I`m an atheist lordtyusa, so your religious beliefs don`t really work well in a discussion.
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Male 182
well lortsyua and sixclaws i never said self-awareness was the decision-maker but simply one reason abortion is acceptable.
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Female 215
Yes I do lordtyusa. Those people were suffering and wanted the pain to end. Thank you for putting words in my mouth though, I don`t know how you came to the conclusion that I believe they deserve to die. If someone is in horrible pain from cancer and just wants to die quickly instead of drawing their pain out, why not let them? If a very old woman can barely breathe, think, and eat and wants her suffering to end, why not let her? Besides, what does this have to do with an abortion doctor being killed?
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Female 761
lmao good one but sadly Falcore, just in every man`s dream.
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Male 301
Actually, Six, most babies can`t start retaining long-term memories until at least 4. So using their logic, I guess we can all kill babies legally until they are about 5 years old.
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Male 864
You know, arguing with the bible doesn`t really work against atheist. Let`s have a discussion purely from what is tangible.

I must argue the point that that child inside the womb has not had any of those experiences etc. to consider it a "life". Although, I do see the point of pro-lifers, and I don`t particularly agree with late-term abortion (the closer to being born the more alive that child seems) I simply think there are certain situations where a little compassion on that mother is needed. She had to have a horrible time of deciding whether or not to abort, and who knows her story?

On the comment about coma patients, they HAVE had those experiences of a life. They`re simply being halted for a time; a baby who has not been born has not had those experiences.

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Male 301
It says, Triskele, that GOD has the right to decide who lives and dies, not man!
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Male 2,313
"No, I don`t think a baby is self aware untill it can retain it`s memories."

So it is acceptable to kill a child until it is a year or two old?

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Male 301