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Date: 06/04/09 06:17 AM

112 Responses to A Christian Explains Traditional Bible-y Marriage

  1. Profile photo of Pooptart19
    Pooptart19 Male 18-29
    2442 posts
    June 4, 2009 at 6:12 am
    Link: A Christian Explains Traditional Bible-y Marriage - Mrs. Betty Bowers explains a good ol` Bible-based marriage. Satirical? You bet your grilled cheese Jesus it is.
  2. Profile photo of Zeizai
    Zeizai Male 18-29
    33 posts
    June 4, 2009 at 6:53 am
    Hahaha, liked that. Loved the pictures!
  3. Profile photo of Olk
    Olk Male 18-29
    91 posts
    June 4, 2009 at 6:56 am
    uber literalthinking is what got us 9/11
  4. Profile photo of kdawg
    kdawg Male 40-49
    172 posts
    June 4, 2009 at 7:02 am
    I hope she`s not married, marriage is then between one man and a Beast.
  5. Profile photo of AGit
    AGit Male 30-39
    996 posts
    June 4, 2009 at 7:03 am
    What can I say? Brilliant!
    And Olk, basically: no. Not that your reasoning is flawed, it`s just not there. Shot. Or dormant. Or gone on holidays.
  6. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    June 4, 2009 at 7:05 am
    This is so stupid, Doesn`t even deserve 1 star.
  7. Profile photo of boredfjord
    boredfjord Male 13-17
    928 posts
    June 4, 2009 at 7:11 am
    That was brilliant. I like videos that expose the outrageous contents of the Bible concisely, because most people are too lazy to even crack the actual book. So they never find out about the slaughters of women and children God orders and assists, or the human sacrifice he accepts, or any of the alarming old testament nastiness that is to be found.
  8. Profile photo of Olk
    Olk Male 18-29
    91 posts
    June 4, 2009 at 7:16 am
    no its not, most of socitys moral code is not derived from the bible, but the romans, our whole concept of marriage is derived from the romans, One man One woman. she also ignores history, for instance rape was often consentual to force the parents of the woman to marry her to her "rapist." One man one woman did not dominate the idea of marriage as seen by the fact that most kings had multiple wives. sleeping with a servent was a common way to produce an heir if your wife was barren etc. etc. also she assumes that God supports all that happens in the bible, which he obviously does not. simply because rape or murder happens does not mean that God supports it
  9. Profile photo of AGit
    AGit Male 30-39
    996 posts
    June 4, 2009 at 7:17 am
    You don`t like the bible, crakrjak? :-)
  10. Profile photo of pmarren
    pmarren Male 40-49
    4575 posts
    June 4, 2009 at 7:22 am
    WAYYYYYY too long.
  11. Profile photo of Spambot3000
    Spambot3000 Male 18-29
    525 posts
    June 4, 2009 at 7:23 am
    its a man
  12. Profile photo of AGit
    AGit Male 30-39
    996 posts
    June 4, 2009 at 7:26 am
    god doesn`t support what is considered his own word? Hmmm fine, fine. May I ask how do you know? He rang you up lately to complain?
    In any case, I pointed out that your reasoning was inexistent and you still haven`t made a causal relation for you previous post, but feel free...
    Erm, which romans? Before, or after Constantine I (to put a random emperor...)?
  13. Profile photo of REBELComx
    REBELComx Male 18-29
    477 posts
    June 4, 2009 at 7:31 am
    Olk. Most of our common law is derived from Roman common law. But sadly the moral code of Christianity has dominated western society since it took hold of the Roman Empire and gave us the dark ages when the church controlled just about everything.
    If our concept of marriage is derived from the Romans, then why don`t we have gay marriage? Gay marriage as we know it today was actually perfectly legal in Rome and well documented as early as 27BCE. The concept of "one man/one woman" was common in Europe but wasn`t the "moral code" until polygamy was made illegal by the increasingly conservative Christian controlled Roman government nearly 600 years later.
    Of course god supports the forms of marriage she mentions in the video. They are laws, supposedly given to man BY god.
    And I fail to see how LIBERAL thinking got us a bunch of religious fundamentalists knocking over the World Trade Center.
  14. Profile photo of Olk
    Olk Male 18-29
    91 posts
    June 4, 2009 at 7:36 am
    the Romans before and after Constantine, and do i really have to cite random textbooks from high school and collage? cuz, i mean its pretty well known how middle eastern cultures viewed marriage in the time of Christ, and still do in general. The romans ruled Israel for a longish period of time, and christianity took root in their sociaties. than it was made legal, and the official religion of Rome. the romans however diid not suddenly start doing things the way it was done in the bible, they conformed the bible to their own lifestyle, marriage and all. Islam is a good example of middle-eastern marrige practice from the time of christ because it has not been heavily influanced by outside cultures
  15. Profile photo of Olk
    Olk Male 18-29
    91 posts
    June 4, 2009 at 7:49 am
    i said literal not liberal. the romans took the bible and took what parts they agreed with and discarded what parts they didnt, then the Church was set up, popes where basicly given free reign, and many where hugely conservative. however, the message of the Church and the teachings of the bible are two different messages, for example where in the bible does it specificly say that gay marrige is immoral?
  16. Profile photo of REBELComx
    REBELComx Male 18-29
    477 posts
    June 4, 2009 at 8:13 am
    Oh, my apologies, Olk. I could swear that was a B in that word. In that case, yes, LITERAL thinking gave use 9/11...and the Crusades, and the Spanish Inquisition, and the Dark Ages...
    Of course though, the Romans didn`t take the bible and leave out stuff. the Romans MADE the bible by deciding what, of the hundreds upon hundreds of different stories, would actually make up the book in the first place. The bible didn`t exist until Constantine ordered it`s creation in an attempt to unite (and thus better control) the feuding Christian sects.
    And you`re right, the bible says NOTHING about loving, commited same sex relationships. Even the purpose behind and language used to call it an "abomination" in Leviticus is up for debate. And no one can agree if Leviticus is actually even valid anymore.
    ANYWAY... this video is friggin awesome. I love her video on Prayer.
  17. Profile photo of HornyPanda
    HornyPanda Male 18-29
    213 posts
    June 4, 2009 at 8:18 am
    I love the novels everyone writes here. I don`t read`em. But I love`em.
  18. Profile photo of ggolbez
    ggolbez Male 18-29
    1933 posts
    June 4, 2009 at 8:19 am
    If you read the bible, she`s right. Case closed.
  19. Profile photo of AGit
    AGit Male 30-39
    996 posts
    June 4, 2009 at 8:24 am
    Olk, I must admit that initially I too read "liberal", goes to show that I live up to my nick.
    However, it may be true that the bible doesn`t specify anything against gay marrige, but that`s probably because it doesn`t take too kindly to the mere existence of homosexuality, let alone the union.
    In any case, I`m with rebelcomx in the fact that our moral code derives from the bible, not the romans, as the church was established long before the incorporation to the roman empire, for example
  20. Profile photo of aznsunchiq
    aznsunchiq Female 18-29
    45 posts
    June 4, 2009 at 8:34 am
    She was pretty good at that.
  21. Profile photo of srximus
    srximus Male 30-39
    170 posts
    June 4, 2009 at 8:38 am
    "...church was established long before the incorporation to the roman empire..."

    You meant befor it destroyed the roman empire?

  22. Profile photo of BrimstoneOne
    BrimstoneOne Male 30-39
    2229 posts
    June 4, 2009 at 9:00 am
    Funny how "marriage" as we know it today, originated in the early 1500`s. And the only reason the church was involved was because he was the only person in the community that could read and write. Also there was something about record keeping and royalty involved.
    In short, this is pile of steaming poo.
  23. Profile photo of AGit
    AGit Male 30-39
    996 posts
    June 4, 2009 at 9:02 am
    Hmmm, srximus, perhaps. But I`d say it was incorporated, then it destroyed. Took some time, true, but... in any case, I`m not thinking straight right now, David Carradine has died :`(
  24. Profile photo of REBELComx
    REBELComx Male 18-29
    477 posts
    June 4, 2009 at 9:46 am
    "You meant before it destroyed the roman empire?"

    I`m with you on that. I mean there are many events and things with factored into Rome`s downfall, but you really have to wonder if the people of the empire would have been able handle those issues (or if some of them would have even happened) if they had not been slowly infected by the downtrodden, guilt-ridden, guilt inducing, self-loathing psychology that Judeo-Chrstianity brought with it. It was such a 180 from the confidence and justifiable (for the most part) pride of Roman morale.

  25. Profile photo of bankvole
    bankvole Male 30-39
    959 posts
    June 4, 2009 at 10:10 am
    it was worth pausing it to see the retarded bible quotes. Deuteronomy is so awful its hilarious.
  26. Profile photo of Astheroid
    Astheroid Male 18-29
    81 posts
    June 4, 2009 at 10:14 am
    Sister doesn`t mean someone you had a the same mother which you were born with.
    Rapist? Come on. What does rape means?
    Forced for sex... people before were more fearful to God than people today... who questions His power.
    Lot? Soddom and Gomorrah? Don`t look back...
    And Virgins doesn`t mean what it means today.

    A religion believes that you can have as many wives as you have as long as you can support it.

    What she sayin is a d.ck in p.ssy. not an assh.le.

    And before you tell I`m ignorant, think how we reproduct, in nature.
    And some of my buddies are gay but they understand what it means to it. unlike some people who just push it too much.

  27. Profile photo of madest
    madest Male 40-49
    7379 posts
    June 4, 2009 at 10:23 am
    Proves how stupid religion is. Wake up get a life. Reject dogma.

    Astheroid, Your inability to spell and use words correctly speaks volumes about your intelligence.

  28. Profile photo of dm2754
    dm2754 Male 40-49
    3284 posts
    June 4, 2009 at 11:00 am
    They forgot to my favorite stories.
    1. Let`s get our father drunk so when he passes out we may have sex with him.
    2. Sin that you two strangers or we may have sex with them. No, I will not take my two daughters instead.

    Also like to point out its easy to tell who is a Christian here is by reading the comments.

  29. Profile photo of oceanbeast
    oceanbeast Male 18-29
    549 posts
    June 4, 2009 at 11:16 am
    I have not seen the video yet I will say something in general. No one can give an aetheist a reason to believe in something that requires tremendous amounts of faith, because after all they only see things as concrete fact. There are very intelligent people out there whi do in fact believe in Gos because they are more open to the idea of man`s inability to truely explain and comprehend all that which goes on around us, there are still forces we can not explain, there are still events that science simply can`t explain. Read on the theories of intelligent design for one, and how from the hydrogen atom to the heavenly bodies all things seem to have been organized thoughtfully, not completely random as some would suggest.
    Also to all ye faithful continue within your faith for we all of us must find God on our own and no amount of preaching will save a drowning man if he dosen`t reach out first
  30. Profile photo of madest
    madest Male 40-49
    7379 posts
    June 4, 2009 at 11:21 am
    Just because we can`t explain it doesn`t mean there`s a god. We simply can`t explain it yet.
  31. Profile photo of oceanbeast
    oceanbeast Male 18-29
    549 posts
    June 4, 2009 at 11:24 am
    To mock the bible is to just show inapptitude to fully comprehend it. It takes self motivation to want to really know how and why events in the bible happened, it takes faith to understand the differences between new and old testament and what that difference is and means. Christianity I admit has proliferated some things that maybe wheren`t correct but you must understand the church (catholic at least) gives back a lot to many nations in terms of charity and good deeds. The church is holy but also of men. There are bad men in the church but that dosent mean the church or religion is flawed, we can always improve. What has aetheism contributed to the world?
  32. Profile photo of oceanbeast
    oceanbeast Male 18-29
    549 posts
    June 4, 2009 at 11:26 am
    That`s true but just because we can explain eveything will not mean there isn`t a God
  33. Profile photo of vE
    vE Male 18-29
    127 posts
    June 4, 2009 at 11:37 am
    debunking the bible is just a fad. atheism is the new hit religion, even though atheists don`t even realize it is a religion or probably a cult. instead of the bible and its sequel, atheists have any book written by their own pope of atheism, richard dawkins, who is actually able to give an autograph.

    Also like to point out its easy to tell who is an atheist here by reading the comments.

  34. Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12151 posts
    June 4, 2009 at 11:38 am
    vv "you must understand the church (catholic at least) gives back a lot to many nations in terms of charity and good deeds."

    The Catholic Church gives a lot? Wow. How about preaching against condom use in AIDS-stricken Africa where about 25 Million people currently have HIV? Senior members of the Catholic Church in Africa have gone so far as to state that not only do condoms not work in preventing AIDS, but that some European-made condoms are infected with HIV deliberately..

  35. Profile photo of boredfjord
    boredfjord Male 13-17
    928 posts
    June 4, 2009 at 11:47 am
    "simply because rape or murder happens does not mean that God supports it"

    Have you read the OT? God is commanding his armies to raze cities and butcher unarmed civilians. When Jephthah sacrifices his own daughter to God, God calls him a "man of great faith." God clearly supports murder all over the Bible.

  36. Profile photo of boredfjord
    boredfjord Male 13-17
    928 posts
    June 4, 2009 at 11:48 am
    "The church is holy but also of men." Then why is the Pope allegedly capable of infallible decrees?
  37. Profile photo of oceanbeast
    oceanbeast Male 18-29
    549 posts
    June 4, 2009 at 11:56 am
    Davymid maybe if some of those people practiced abstinence it would help? Also africa has an extremely low population that is educated, aids is not there only problem it also isn`t the job of the church to save anyone, we will all save ourselves by heeding the warnings given to us who believe. Promiscuity is not something we stand for, but it is a social norm so shouldn`t you blame the government or lack there of for public health problems?
  38. Profile photo of madest
    madest Male 40-49
    7379 posts
    June 4, 2009 at 12:02 pm
    Oceanbeast, Put down the Bible and pick up a dictionary. "Wheren`t" is not a word. "Inaptitude" means lack of talent, I think you were going for ineptitude. You even went so far as to misspell "God" and that`s merely 3 letters. I hope your future kids don`t end up in the same schools you went to because the system failed you miserably. Perhaps your belief in God is a result of your lack of intelligence.

    PS: Those red lines under the words you`re typing are telling you something. sheesh.

  39. Profile photo of oceanbeast
    oceanbeast Male 18-29
    549 posts
    June 4, 2009 at 12:02 pm
    Or better yet take responsibility for our actions? A hard concept to understand I suppose, cuz everyone wants to drat with no worries.

    The pope is a man with weakness like any other, those who decide to do what the holy spirit guides them to IS incapable of great deeds but those who abuse power can do great damage. If you don`t understand think about this, does the pope ask God what to eat for breakfast? I don`t think so therefore he does have free will and can act as any man but his duty is to be as connected with God as possible

  40. Profile photo of dljudo92
    dljudo92 Male 18-29
    485 posts
    June 4, 2009 at 12:06 pm
    HAHAHA vE, was that a serious comment? I truly can`t tell. If so, please message back so I can tear you a new one.
  41. Profile photo of oceanbeast
    oceanbeast Male 18-29
    549 posts
    June 4, 2009 at 12:07 pm
    I`m on a blackberry 7520 so no spell check I apologize, yet I think you understood the message.I am a pretty smart individual actually, grammar isn`t my strongest suit but it`s quite good enough to express a thought
  42. Profile photo of madest
    madest Male 40-49
    7379 posts
    June 4, 2009 at 12:16 pm
    You`re not smart if you think Noah distributed the animals to their own specific corners of the planet. Not that smart if you believe the earth was created 6,000 years ago. You can`t possibly believe in a talking burning bush, walking on water, living in a fish, parting a sea... yeah keep telling yourself how smart you are.
  43. Profile photo of oceanbeast
    oceanbeast Male 18-29
    549 posts
    June 4, 2009 at 12:24 pm
    That all depends on how literally you take these readings. I admit I cut my hair and I eat pork. Those are old testament stories, my personal application is that these where told metaphorically for the people of their time, however the messages they carry are universal: faith, obedience, consequence. And yes I do believe Jesus walked on water, I believe all the new testament is pretty accurate. Jesus was a real historical figure, and he did heal people. It`s a matter of faith to believe or not simple as that. It does not make me stupid because I have faith my friend.
  44. Profile photo of oceanbeast
    oceanbeast Male 18-29
    549 posts
    June 4, 2009 at 12:28 pm
    Tell me what has atheism contributed to humanity? Atheist want to deny the very real spirituality humanity posseses, spirituality can be seen across all cultures and nations.
  45. Profile photo of boredfjord
    boredfjord Male 13-17
    928 posts
    June 4, 2009 at 12:37 pm
    The point isn`t atheism`s contributions, or lack thereof, to humanity. Atheism doesn`t inherently have anything to offer; it`s just the absence of belief in any gods.

    The point is what`s true. The point is being honest and seeing reality as it is. And based the current body of scientifically observed facts, it`s absurd to say that there is any evidence of any gods. Least of all the Christian God.

    If the OT stories were metaphors, then what is the meaning of the metaphors? For example, how could "kill men for having sex with each other" POSSIBLY be a metaphor for anything good or just? And why would God, in his alleged omniscience, choose to communicate with his fallible creation through metaphor when he knew that most or all of his followers would interpret the metaphors incorrectly?

    And the New Testament is worse, in a way, because it introduces the concept of hell. And and being that created hell, as it is popularly understood, is evil beyond measure.

  46. Profile photo of madest
    madest Male 40-49
    7379 posts
    June 4, 2009 at 12:42 pm
    A couple months ago IAB posted a link of devout Indians cracking coconuts on their heads. Hopefully you see in them the craziness that I see in people like you.

    Coconut Head Smash

  47. Profile photo of boredfjord
    boredfjord Male 13-17
    928 posts
    June 4, 2009 at 12:49 pm
    "Atheist want to deny the very real spirituality humanity posseses, spirituality can be seen across all cultures and nations."

    I hate the word spirituality. It seems, to me, to presuppose the existence of a spirit. But of course there is no such thing. So surely we can satiate our desire for ritual or a sensation of connectivity with the world around us or whatever it is you wrongly call "spirituality" without believing in any superstitious claptrap.

  48. Profile photo of oceanbeast
    oceanbeast Male 18-29
    549 posts
    June 4, 2009 at 12:52 pm
    There are scientists who have written papers on how science can coexist with God, just because you haven`t read them dosen`t mean they don`t exist. You state an opinion by saying that science proves God dosen`t exist, that`s just opinion. Your lack of faith will twist anything into being aligned with your personal views. By the way the bible does condemn gays, but Jesus clearly stated that muder and sacrifice was no longer acceptable. But I guess your a gay rights activist too. Here we go again
  49. Profile photo of boredfjord
    boredfjord Male 13-17
    928 posts
    June 4, 2009 at 12:57 pm
    I know that those papers exist. And I believe the authors of those papers are mistaken. There are specific scientific facts that can coexist with specific religious beliefs. Believing in a deist god does not preclude belief in the theory of evolution, for example. However, science is a process by which facts are found, not just a collection of facts. And religious faith--that is, belief without evidence or in spite of evidence--is totally antithetical to the scientific method. Religious scientists have chosen to apply the scientific method to certain subjects and to ignore it when it treads on their religion.

    I never said that science proves God doesn`t exist. I said this "...based the current body of scientifically observed facts, it`s absurd to say that there is any evidence of any gods." Meaning that the facts we have observed scientifically do not logically lead to the conclusion that there is a God. This is different than saying that God has been disproved.

  50. Profile photo of boredfjord
    boredfjord Male 13-17
    928 posts
    June 4, 2009 at 1:06 pm
    "By the way the bible does condemn gays, but Jesus clearly stated that muder and sacrifice was no longer acceptable."

    Fair enough. But you`re avoiding the real point of my original question. You said that the OT injunctions (specifically, the ones you find it convenient to disobey) are metaphors. "Those are old testament stories, my personal application is that these where told metaphorically for the people of their time, however the messages they carry are universal: faith, obedience, consequence."

    So I am asking you what the metaphor of these passages is. How is "don`t eat pork" a metaphor? How is "Kill the sorceresses" a metaphor? Or "David cut off the foreskins of the 200 Philistines he had just murdered?" Or "they had penises like donkeys and ejaculated like horses?" None of that is made up, though it is paraphrased for the sake of brevity. What are we supposed to take away from those OT passages?

  51. Profile photo of oceanbeast
    oceanbeast Male 18-29
    549 posts
    June 4, 2009 at 1:06 pm
    Please read on intelligent design. one argument I could present although I know is irrelevant to you is that, faith is a test from God. That we may believe through accepting our beliefs and the scriptures we have
  52. Profile photo of oceanbeast
    oceanbeast Male 18-29
    549 posts
    June 4, 2009 at 1:14 pm
    Honestly those pertain more towards the jewish faith, I unfortunately am not a theologian and thus I can`t explain these passages sufficiently so I bow to your better knowledge on this
  53. Profile photo of madest
    madest Male 40-49
    7379 posts
    June 4, 2009 at 1:17 pm
    It`s all hocus-pocus with modifiers to explain away all the bad stuff Christians do. These people followed Ted Haggard and gave his church money. Ted Haggard talked to President Bush daily until he was exposed.

    That entire episode proves that Christians are sheep. Easily led to wherever their drug addled gay prostitute loving leaders lead them.

  54. Profile photo of REBELComx
    REBELComx Male 18-29
    477 posts
    June 4, 2009 at 2:35 pm
    The greatest folly of modern man is to cling to the notion that he was created by gods, and to forget that it was actually the other way around.

    So Ocean, what is your concept of god? from your defenses, I`m guessing that you are some form of Christian. But why Christian? What evidence is there to support that Jehovah is any more real than say Odin, Vishnu, Ra, Zeus, Legba, Quetzaquatal, or the various Native American gods? We actually have MORE scientific evidence to support the idea that Cthulhu exists than we do Christ.

    History, psychology, paleantology, anthropology, sociology, and a history of theology all basically show that it was MAN who created GODS. They exist in one place - as archetypes in the collective human subconcious.

  55. Profile photo of vE
    vE Male 18-29
    127 posts
    June 4, 2009 at 2:43 pm
    for a late response, atheism: the OTHER white religion. for a group of people that don`t believe in god, they sure do LOVE preaching about his non-existance. i`ve had more douchebags talk about the book of dawkins than non-nice individuals wake me up in the morning to talk about the book of mormon. doesn`t it bother anyone that darwin was agnostic? i`m gonna keep rechecking these comments just in case someone were to respond to my own, because we all know that there`s nothing more fulfilling than an internet debate... or any debate that ends without enlightenment of any kind.

    no need for the hackneyed response of "atheism is a religion like bald is a hair color."

  56. Profile photo of PinkAndGreen
    PinkAndGreen Female 13-17
    918 posts
    June 4, 2009 at 2:49 pm
    You wanna know what? I give up Christianity or Catholicism. Seriously, I`m getting tired of all the interpretation in religion, and how messed up the Bible is. I`ve never believed in the Bible. It`s human interpretation of God`s word. Then more interpretation on top of that from priests.

    I still believe in God, just not Christianity. I`ve been doubting it for a long time and I`m just so tired of it. I`ve never liked organized religion because people use it to manipulate you and control you. Most of religion is run off of fear. And I`m tired of it. So God, yes. Christianity, no.

    Okay, done with my rant.

  57. Profile photo of boredfjord
    boredfjord Male 13-17
    928 posts
    June 4, 2009 at 3:01 pm
    I have read on intelligent design, and I understand it quite well. Not that it`s difficult to understand. And it`s unnecessary. Evolution shows us that the diversification and specialization and intricacy and beauty of life is possible without God. The equation doesn`t need God to work. So we should eliminate the extra variable.
  58. Profile photo of boredfjord
    boredfjord Male 13-17
    928 posts
    June 4, 2009 at 3:08 pm
    "doesn`t it bother anyone that darwin was agnostic?"

    Not me. Darwin isn`t the king of nonreligious people. He`s not our Jesus and The Origin of Species is not our Bible. Not even close. Nonreligious people agree with those theories of his that have stood up to a century and a half of intense scientific scrutiny and whatever other subjective opinions of his that we may find palatable personally, and we dismiss whatever else he said. No one treats Darwin like an object of worship, and atheism is not a religion.

  59. Profile photo of boredfjord
    boredfjord Male 13-17
    928 posts
    June 4, 2009 at 3:13 pm
    "A religion is an organized approach to human spirituality which usually encompasses a set of narratives, symbols, beliefs and practices, often with a supernatural or transcendent quality, that give meaning to the practitioner`s experiences of life through reference to a higher power, God or gods, or ultimate truth."

    That`s Wikipedia`s definition of a religion. Atheism is not an organized approach to spirituality. It isn`t organized at all. It has no supernatural or transcendent quality. And it does not give meaning to the atheist`s experiences of life through reference to anything,but certainly not through reference a higher power, gods, or ultimate truth. So in what sense, then, is atheism a religion? Atheism is a single belief; the belief that there are no gods. That`s it. I hope you find that more satisfying than "atheism is a religion the way bald is a hairstyle."

  60. Profile photo of vE
    vE Male 18-29
    127 posts
    June 4, 2009 at 3:21 pm
    i wish i could believe that people didn`t praise darwin or dawkins as a god and saint, but i`ve had the misfortune of taking a class with someone who declared they were a "darwinist" in a religious sense, not in sociological or economical sense, and a lesbian who walked around campus carrying two different books of dawkins every day. atheism is a religion. a broad religion, similar to christianity, in where smaller sects share similar values and principles, but do not have to be entirely exact. the devout atheists are as annoying as evangelists. you don`t need god for a religion.
  61. Profile photo of jennifer6716
    jennifer6716 Female 13-17
    471 posts
    June 4, 2009 at 3:29 pm
    annoying. V-E-R-Y annoying. Just about as annoying as any know-it-all Christian.

    I agree with the message- if the message is that gays should have the right to marry, but I`m not too fond of the wrapping.

  62. Profile photo of
    BrioCloud
    14 posts
    June 4, 2009 at 3:43 pm
    Darwin?

    Dude. I knew God wasn`t real before I even realized Santa Clause wasn`t real. I was a smart little boy.

    But If he is there. Sorry! I always have very good luck! XD

  63. Profile photo of xattributex
    xattributex Male 18-29
    144 posts
    June 4, 2009 at 4:24 pm
    Bored..theres a reason you arent allowed to use Wikipedia as a resource in college..:P

    Religion : from "re-ligare", means "to tie back, tie fast, tie up"... to get in contact with God.
    Religion is a system of faith in and worship of a Supreme Being, or a god or gods... or a system of denial of any god.

  64. Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12151 posts
    June 4, 2009 at 4:24 pm
    vv "atheism is a religion."

    Really? Let`s dissect that for a moment:

    Here`s a list of some things which which can be said to be traits of "religion". How many of them apply to atheism? Belief in God(s), prayer, churches/temples, scripture/holy books, priests/religious leaders, belief in the supernatural (including angels/demons), miracles, holy wars, heaven/hell, lifestyle restrictions (diet, marriage, dress), belief without evidence (and holding such as a virtue, called "faith"), belief despite conflicting evidence, supernatural origins of the universe and/or humans, belief in the afterlife, regular ceremonies/acts of worship, sin, blasphemy, the notion that "We are (insert deity here)`s chosen people". I could go on, but you get the idea.

    Atheism is neither religion nor faith. Declaring it to be otherwise, sadly, will not make it so.

  65. Profile photo of xattributex
    xattributex Male 18-29
    144 posts
    June 4, 2009 at 4:31 pm
    Davy...traits of being drunk..getting in car wrecks, sleeping with people you may not know, getting stds, telling someone how you really feel, damagin liver, finding love, being calm, being angry, being talkative, not talking enough..being sleepy...
    now do any of those define the word DRUNK? think about it..quit cherry picking things people do as a definition
  66. Profile photo of vE
    vE Male 18-29
    127 posts
    June 4, 2009 at 4:35 pm
    atheism is a religion. who said religion needed a god? ask the Buddhists who their God is (i`ll give you a hint: it isn`t Buddha). i`ll give it that MOST atheists do not believe in the supernatural and whatnot (though i`m sure there are enough atheists who believe in stupider things) but at the same time, who has a more arrogant lifestyle than those who want to "prove" religions are all wrong. atheists surely do have FAITH that they are right about God`s (or god`s) nonexistance, remember, the absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence. Like other religions, atheists have preachers (again Dawkins) who have joy in arguing against the religious. what`s the difference in the arrogance in talking about God`s existance and talking about God`s non-existance? at the same time, when challenged about their beliefs both atheists and theists tend to angrily argue for them. they`re the same thing. sure, atheists lack characteristics of other religions, but still can be recognized
  67. Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12151 posts
    June 4, 2009 at 4:43 pm
    Alright, you guys win. Atheism`s a religion alright. I`m looking forward to atheism being taught in Religion courses in school. Hell, why not have Atheist schools going up alongside the Catholic, Baptist and Muslim schools? Hey, maybe even a tax-exempt status for Atheist organisations!

    I hope you guys are right - bring it on!

  68. Profile photo of lerie
    lerie Female 18-29
    1265 posts
    June 4, 2009 at 4:44 pm
    XD

    I love Betty Bowers so much. Go visit her site for more LOL`s

    @boredfjord
    " I like videos that expose the outrageous contents of the Bible concisely"
    I agree!

  69. Profile photo of lerie
    lerie Female 18-29
    1265 posts
    June 4, 2009 at 4:50 pm
    Oh and atheism is NOT a religion. Religion depends on the belief of a supernatural entity or god related to the universe.
    On spirituality, it has nothing to do with religion.
    And...Buddhism aknowledges the existence of gods (devas, for example).
    Read more people.
  70. Profile photo of Dextrine
    Dextrine Male 18-29
    483 posts
    June 4, 2009 at 4:52 pm
    If atheism is a religion then bald is a hair color
  71. Profile photo of vE
    vE Male 18-29
    127 posts
    June 4, 2009 at 4:53 pm
    davy you bring up a good point that i`ve been wondering myself. what is the difference between a cult and religion? tax-exempt status. so atheism is a cult, oh well. hmm... are there any Islamic schools in america? i guess its just a difference of opinion in the federal government. not all religions have schools or even temples and churches. its too arduous to actually do anything, but atheists don`t have to care about idle hands, right?
  72. Profile photo of vorpalsword
    vorpalsword Male 18-29
    1452 posts
    June 4, 2009 at 5:39 pm
    In the bible if you don`t believe those radical verses like the ones mention in the vid then you are not a true christian. That is why I listened to logic and reason and no longer was anymore christian and became a deist.
  73. Profile photo of xattributex
    xattributex Male 18-29
    144 posts
    June 4, 2009 at 5:45 pm
    Davy:
    Athiesm WAS taught in my religion class.It`s always been taught in my Humanities classes in grade school,they may not elaborate like the other religions,but it`s because there is nothing to elaborate on, other than pilosophy and current science.i dont think that was valid.I do see your tax exempt point though, but even as a religious person I dont think church should be allowed to this either.
    Lerie:
    Why dont you read my definitions post from before? Even by other definitions,you most likely believe in the big bang,but unknowing of what before it or caused it (other than theory)? Sounds to me like belief in something supernatural?
    VE:
    Sorry,I know you are on my team,but there are Islamic schools in America,but you are right,religion doesn`t need a school unless you plan on becoming an athiest apologist?
    Vorpal:
    I dont beleive in the Bible, but even for those who do, dont follow this because this was mostly OT and you obey the laws of the land above all, which
  74. Profile photo of REBELComx
    REBELComx Male 18-29
    477 posts
    June 4, 2009 at 6:10 pm
    1.Atheism is NOT a religion. It`s not a belief in no god, it is a disbelief. Atheism = SKEPTICISM. If someone provided me with hardcore, irrefutable evidence that god exists, than i would be willing to contemplate the data, test it for myself and make up my own mind. Atheism is about using a scientific method to prove or disprove. It is about constantly asking questions, like science does - asking questions and finding answers. Religion is about claiming you already have all the answers before the question is even asked.
    Scientist: What? How? When?
    Theist: God did it.
    Philosopher: Why?
    2.Dawkins is an extremist blowhard who is NOT an Atheist, he is an ANTItheist. There`s a difference.
    3.Buddhism does not consider itself a religion. It is a philosophy. Of course, if you ask an Asian Buddhist about deities, they will refer you to Hindu or other Asian gods...not Buddha.
    4.Religion: from religare, "to tie back, tie fast, tie up" - sounds like bondage and oppr
  75. Profile photo of REBELComx
    REBELComx Male 18-29
    477 posts
    June 4, 2009 at 6:11 pm
    *sounds like bondage and oppression, don`t it?

    Bloody max character reader unable to count!

  76. Profile photo of xattributex
    xattributex Male 18-29
    144 posts
    June 4, 2009 at 6:16 pm
    "if somebody poses hardcore irrefutable evidence then I would...."
    First...supernatural cannot be proven...if it could..it would not be supernatural.
    Secondly, do you use the method of belief with science? Much of science isnt hardcore or irrefutable..which is why there is always two or more sides...so what makes you beleive? This is a ginuine question...not an arguement..

    oh and I agree..stupid max count

  77. Profile photo of REBELComx
    REBELComx Male 18-29
    477 posts
    June 4, 2009 at 6:35 pm
    That`s right. Most of science isn`t hard core or irrefutable. That`s why theories can change. Science is not satisfied with a simple answer. It has to keep asking questions. True scientists will be HAPPY to tell you that they don`t know everything. That there is still so much more to find out. But they acknowledge their ignorance in a constructive way.
    Religion thinks that every question has one answer and nothing but solid evidence can assuage that faith. How long did we think the earth was flat? Or that the earth was the center of the universe? Or that your soul was trying to escape when you sneeze? Religion is about lazy thinkers with wild imaginations making up answers to fill in gaps.
    Again, the only difference between Jehovah and Cthulhu is that we KNOW Cthulhu was made up by a sickly, semi-racist white man who had bad dreams in the 1920s... and we still have more evidence to support HIS stories than Christ`s.
  78. Profile photo of mehh
    mehh Female 18-29
    528 posts
    June 4, 2009 at 6:40 pm
    "Even by other definitions,you most likely believe in the big bang,but unknowing of what before it or caused it (other than theory)? Sounds to me like belief in something supernatural?"

    The Big Bang is based on the observation that the universe is expanding not and thereby is not a `supernatural` phenomena. Besides, its merely a theory. Almost a hypothesis considering there is not much evidence for it and there are many studies that contradict it. But that is the nature of science. No one claims to know the answers to what we do not know and we are willing to accept when a theory is debunked. Perhaps one day we will know the origins of the universe with additional study and technology just as one hundred and fifty years ago we discovered the mechanism for the origin of life. I will never make the claim that all religions are wrong because in science there are no facts. It`s just EXTREMELY unlikely based on existing evidence

  79. Profile photo of xattributex
    xattributex Male 18-29
    144 posts
    June 4, 2009 at 7:02 pm
    Mehh..i like that :0 you are the first on here tosay "science isnt fact". I see your point, but even I said it was theory..but even beleif in this theory just becasue of expansion is by definition supernatural because we do not know, if the theory had a start I wouldnt feel this way..but it doesnt have a start its bang from nothing which is beyond nature.
    REBEL, I repsectfully find you wrong. I will agree that a majority of "religion" today would fall in your category, but a majority of "religion" today is not religious. True people who actually care never stop asking why, just like you claim in science..if something is debunked, we are willing to admit it is wrong..we dont deny science just because, rather we say the same...give us irrefutable evidence that for example a man came from an ape, then we will consider it,test it and maybe w`ll even try to connect it s... i just repsectfully think your experience is limited to actually people of religion
  80. Profile photo of xattributex
    xattributex Male 18-29
    144 posts
    June 4, 2009 at 7:03 pm
    that claim religion, but have no teachings or even Idea..this is how we get statitics lke Christianity is a dominent religion...when you cut off the fat..it in fact isnt...by far
  81. Profile photo of vE
    vE Male 18-29
    127 posts
    June 4, 2009 at 7:04 pm
    "Religion is about claiming you already have all the answers before the question is even asked."

    though that isn`t entirely what religion is about, the same case can be made about atheism. "God doesn`t exist" is a claim that cannot be proven as much as "God does exist". also the whole claim that religion is just for lazy thinkers, i believe it is easier to be skeptic and arrogant than to actually look up anything for yourself.

    as for Buddhists not believing Buddhism is more a philosophy rather than a religion, that basically is an argument of semantics. atheism it self is somewhat a paradoxical religion in where the believer (or disbeliever) doesn`t believe atheism is a religion. i`d be convinced that atheism wouldn`t be a religion if there weren`t so many preachers.

  82. Profile photo of sbuninja
    sbuninja Female 18-29
    168 posts
    June 4, 2009 at 7:05 pm
    REBELComx:

    Atheism is defined by religious studies experts is a non-belief with Certainty there is no god. Agnostic people are SKEPTICAL. They believe there could be something.

    Buddhism IS considered a religion according to Religious Studies and researchers- a "religion" does not need a diety to be a religion. Any belief in living a life a certain way can be considered religion.

    Buddhism considers itself a way of life, not a mere philosophy. And they CAN identify with it as a religion, but not in our definition. Sure, there ARE philosophies involved, but the essence is to live. Dogen and Shinron believed that studying philosophies to gain understanding is key, though others differ slightly- everyone is different and can become a Buddha. If you ask them the DEFINITION of a diety they know the definition according to what is considered a world definition- but Buddhism does NOT state there is no god. It`s about LIVING.

    Source: Asian American Studies-Psych major, JPN m

  83. Profile photo of cman7721
    cman7721 Male 18-29
    618 posts
    June 4, 2009 at 7:06 pm
    rebelcomx, if somebody supplied TRUlY irrefutable evidence, you wouldnt have a choice but to accept. duh.
  84. Profile photo of xattributex
    xattributex Male 18-29
    144 posts
    June 4, 2009 at 7:13 pm
    Ha cman..I cant beleive I didnt catch that..thanks ha
  85. Profile photo of vorpalsword
    vorpalsword Male 18-29
    1452 posts
    June 4, 2009 at 7:26 pm
    i support the laws of the land but not the insane laws in the bible and according to the church there is no exceptions or you are not a christian
  86. Profile photo of MikeW
    MikeW Male 30-39
    137 posts
    June 4, 2009 at 8:49 pm
    I like the closing line haha

    "Survey says: 4 out of 5 evangelical divorcees believe marriage is sacred."

  87. Profile photo of opiebreath
    opiebreath Female 18-29
    15782 posts
    June 4, 2009 at 8:54 pm
    Thank GOD the description of this said satire! That saves me a lot of explaining to do.
  88. Profile photo of Barnk
    Barnk Male 30-39
    486 posts
    June 4, 2009 at 9:08 pm
    God is so gay.
  89. Profile photo of Karakara
    Karakara Female 18-29
    30 posts
    June 5, 2009 at 12:42 am
    "Tell me what has atheism contributed to humanity? Atheist want to deny the very real spirituality humanity posseses, spirituality can be seen across all cultures and nations."

    On the other hand, tell me what Christianity has contributed to humanity? It`s religious fanatics who start wars in the name of their god(s). It`s the religious who kill people in the name of God and feel no remorse for it. It`s it idea that a single religion is better or more right than another that creates such a hatred and a difference of opinion for others of differing faiths.

    You say you still love me and that God still loves me if I don`t believe in him. Yet you still say I`m going to hell if I don`t feel like talking to a person I can`t prove exists. Some people have tried to save me before, and it`s absolute hypocrisy. I`ll pass on your faith, thanks.

  90. Profile photo of Karakara
    Karakara Female 18-29
    30 posts
    June 5, 2009 at 12:47 am
    "...who has a more arrogant lifestyle than those who want to "prove" religions are all wrong."

    As a matter of fact, I don`t want to prove anything. I want to live my life as I feel it should be led, based on my own morals, and not be told constantly to believe in certain a certain diety, especially when there are so many out there. I`d rather be left alone to live my life. If I die and there is a God, well... howdy doo. There`s a God. Looks like I have my proof. I can believe now.

    But until then, I`mma stick with my nice little life and not force my morals on other people.

  91. Profile photo of Luet_Seer
    Luet_Seer Female 18-29
    45 posts
    June 5, 2009 at 3:46 am
    So how many people think that these stories aren`t true?
  92. Profile photo of Devi3000
    Devi3000 Female 18-29
    1497 posts
    June 5, 2009 at 4:24 am
    Brill!
  93. Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12151 posts
    June 5, 2009 at 4:36 am
    vv "Atheism is defined by religious studies experts is a non-belief with Certainty there is no god. Agnostic people are SKEPTICAL. They believe there could be something."

    No. Theism/Atheism and Gnosticism/Agnosticism are two completely separate concepts. A/Theism is to do with what someone believes, A/Gnosticism is to do what someone knows/is certain about.

    It`s quite possible to be an Agnostic Theist ("I believe in God/s but I admit I don`t know if I`m right in believing that") or a Gnostic Atheist ("I don`t believe in God/s and I`m absolutely certain that I`m right").

    Personally, I`m an Agnostic Atheist ("I don`t believe in God/s but I`m not sure if I`m right, I`ll change my mind if/when evidence presents itself"). The vast majority of religious people worldwide are Gnostic Theists ("my God is real and is the one true God, everyone else is wrong and going to burn in hell for eternity").

  94. Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12151 posts
    June 5, 2009 at 4:40 am
    vE, maybe you`ve met too many Gnostic Theists? If you`re basing what to call a religion on gnosticism (e.g. you hint at "arrogance", typically a gnostic trait), then sorry mate, but you`re doing it wrong.

    Religion is based on people`s beliefs, hence theism (a belief in a higher being). Atheism is simply a lack of belief. You`re confusing atheism with gnosticism.

    Hope that made sense to someone. Confused the sh*t out of me.

  95. Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12151 posts
    June 5, 2009 at 4:48 am
    Last one:

    "Tell me what has atheism contributed to humanity?"

    Interesting point. Atheism as such cannot contribute anything to society, as it is simply the default position. No-one`s born Christian, or Muslim, or Hindu. We`re taught how to be that way by our parents, society and religious leaders.

    Atheism is vanilla. It`s the starting condition. You may as well ask "What have humans ever contributed to humanity?"

    But I will take it one stage further. Let`s not talk of atheism, but of science. Science is the search for truth, deliberatly without recourse to supernatural explanations for phenomena. It`s an attempt to understand the universe around us in purely physical, chemical and biological terms. There`s purposely no religion in science. Thus atheism has very close ties to the scientific method - God, the supernatural, whatever you want to call it, is shut out.

    Your question could be transposed as: "What has science ever contributed to humanity?

  96. Profile photo of speedy_3909
    speedy_3909 Male 13-17
    361 posts
    June 5, 2009 at 7:07 am
    Thanks for clearing that up davymid.
  97. Profile photo of Shaboobalah
    Shaboobalah Male 18-29
    326 posts
    June 5, 2009 at 8:36 am
    WEll played Davy. Well played.
  98. Profile photo of solobueno
    solobueno Female 18-29
    134 posts
    June 5, 2009 at 3:46 pm
    AWESOME AWESOME AWESOME!!!!!! I`m so glad someone finally got the biblical marriage right!
  99. Profile photo of xattributex
    xattributex Male 18-29
    144 posts
    June 5, 2009 at 6:33 pm
    Agnostic Athiesm is a clever way to put it but its an oxymoron.
    Athiesm = beleive of no God
    Agnosticism = doubt of God. We agree, right?
    By definition Agnosticism cancels out the any thiesm on either end..until there is a conclusion..and that conclusion will either be thiest or athiest, make sense? Until then, the thiesm has no existence..

    Ex: There is a Muslim.If in a bizarre turn of events, Christ came down and said "YOU ARE WRONG", then logically he/she would change to Christianity..but what he/she beleives at this moment is exactly that, that Islam is the one true religion..this does not make he/she an Agnostic Muslim, because they have reached their conclusion til further notice..Everybody has a point of change..agnosticism is that true doubt..

    And replace Atheism with Science = Arrogance. Science is in everything and contributed by all

  100. Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12151 posts
    June 5, 2009 at 7:37 pm
    vv "Agnostic Athiesm is a clever way to put it but its an oxymoron. Athiesm = beleive of no God Agnosticism = doubt of God. We agree, right?"

    No, we don`t, on two points.

    1) Atheism is not a statement of "I believe of no God". Rather it`s "I do not believe in God". There is a subtle, but important difference. The former is a matter of belief, or faith (e.g. I have faith that there is no God), while the latter is simply disbelief (e.g. I don`t believe in God).

    2) Gnosticism/agnoticism is simply stating what you factually know ("Gnostic" is from the Greek, same stem as the word "knowledge"). Hence it is quite right and proper, and not oxymoronic, to declare oneself an Agnostic Athiest. It`s not trying to be clever. It`s simply a statement of "I don`t believe in God, but I don`t know". Contrast with Gnostic Theism: "I believe in my God, and I just know I`m right."

  101. Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12151 posts
    June 5, 2009 at 7:49 pm
    To follow on from that:

    Is atheism a noble quality? I would say no. Theism or atheiem is simply a matter of belief. Does one believe that the best way to govern a country is Republican or Democratic? That`s just personal opinion, or belief.

    The real nobility comes at the level of gnosticism. Am I sure that I am right, beyond reproach? The only humble, humanitarian approach to take is agnosticism. I think I`m right, but I`m open to new ideas which may change my world view. An approach, I must say, that is sorely lacking in the religious, who are overwhelmingly Gnostic Theists.

    You know the line: "I`m right, we`re the chosen people, you`re all going to hell except for me and my team. I didn`t make up the rules, God did, and while God loves you, you`re still all gonna burn unless you turn to my particular branch of religion."

    To me, small voice as I am, that`s divisive and abhorrent in the extreme.

  102. Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12151 posts
    June 5, 2009 at 8:01 pm
    Final point:

    "And replace Atheism with Science = Arrogance. Science is in everything and contributed by all"

    Science is the study of the universe around us, without recourse to supernatural explanations. If you find that arrogant, then be my guest.

    There`s a reason why most professional scientists (including me) are agnostic atheists. If you`re not agnostic, you`re a poor scientist. If you`re not atheist, then you have the caveat of something you can`t explain as "God did it!". Unfortunately, that`s not how science works.

    Anyways, I`m off to other things. Not trying to be arrogant (I`ve genuinely enjoyed the intelligent discussion, immensely), but I really have to leave this thread.

    Peace and goodwill.

  103. Profile photo of xattributex
    xattributex Male 18-29
    144 posts
    June 5, 2009 at 8:13 pm
    Theism does not come into play without conclusion. Gnostic is conclusion (or knowledge), but a conclusion can`t be stemmed from doubt. There for agnosticism is not a conclusion hence the word doubt.

    When you reach the conclusion you have opened gnosticism which will, thus entering your thiesm or athiesm, because these are sure things. Agnosticism is not a sure thing.

    You are a Gnostic athiest, because you have reached a conclusion til point of doubt. You do not doubt right now..you will though when this "irrefutable evidenc" comes. Which hasnt happend yet correct?
    Even by your definition, Agnostic Athiesm would mean you base your atheism on doubt or lack or knowledge..which..I would certainly hope its otherwise right?

  104. Profile photo of xattributex
    xattributex Male 18-29
    144 posts
    June 5, 2009 at 8:20 pm
    "Science is the study of the universe around us, without recourse to supernatural explanations. If you find that arrogant, then be my guest."

    The arrogance isn`t the definition of science, it when you replaced atheism as science. Because as we all know science is studied andcontributed by all.

  105. Profile photo of xattributex
    xattributex Male 18-29
    144 posts
    June 5, 2009 at 8:25 pm
    I made this chart of you in a cowboy hat to explain.
  106. Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12151 posts
    June 5, 2009 at 8:32 pm
    vv "You are a Gnostic athiest, because you have reached a conclusion til point of doubt."

    Please respectfully desist from defining what I am and am not. I find it bit offensive for you to label me thus. I`m agnostic. I don`t know. If I release an apple from my hand tomorrow and it flies up to the sky, then we need to rethink the Theory of Gravity, and I`ll happily take part in the movement.

    If, on the other hand, an Angel of the Lord comes down from the sky and explains the anti-gravitational apple, then I`m the first convert to Gnostic Theism you ever saw. Bring it.

  107. Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12151 posts
    June 5, 2009 at 8:42 pm
    Just reviewed the chart.

    It didn`t sink in, did it? Lemme help.

    It`s a grid. On the x axis, there`s belief (Theism/Atheism). On the Y Axis, there`s certainty (Gnosticism/Agnosticism).

    Try again, without the arrows.

  108. Profile photo of xattributex
    xattributex Male 18-29
    144 posts
    June 5, 2009 at 9:26 pm
    I am not labeling you, if you are agnostic, then you are, but you (and your profile) said you were atheist. I was simply pointing out you cant be both, there is easy certainy til doubt...or just doubt. if you are athiest, you are gnostic..and certain til reason of doubt..plain and simple..no judging, no label..it is was it is. If you are agnostic then fine, but then you are not athiest..you see? because you are no longer certainty.. ( refer to the chart)

    Theist and Atheist are the certainty beyond gnosticism. You have it backwards, if agnostic was a certainty, then it wouldn`t be a doubt of, because thats not certain..there`s no x and y axis, theres no rating system that narrows what you are, "doubt" and "certainty" define against each other,they aren`t the same, and cannot be used on a grid with out being an oxymoron

  109. Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12151 posts
    June 6, 2009 at 3:10 am
    vv "if you are athiest, you are gnostic"

    You`re not getting it, are you. Re-read my previous posts. I summarise again for your benefit: Theism is to do with belief, Gnosticism is to do with knowledge. Two different things.

    Anyways, this thread is dead. See you on the next debate.

  110. Profile photo of Nataly
    Nataly Female 18-29
    71 posts
    June 7, 2009 at 12:28 pm
    Too bad I`m late for this discussion but I couldn`t help correcting you: what you try to put in the word "gnostic" needs some different expression because this one is occupied. Gnosticism was an heresy which derived from Christianity in the first centuries AD so when you call yourself or your opponent "gnostic" in this thread it seems quite laughable to me. Nevertheless your point is clear and pretty reasonable.
  111. Profile photo of Nataly
    Nataly Female 18-29
    71 posts
    June 7, 2009 at 12:31 pm
    *I meant davymid, of course, his point.
  112. Profile photo of Layzale
    Layzale Male 13-17
    14 posts
    January 23, 2010 at 6:58 pm
    i agree.

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