Baby Cries During Obama`s Abortion Speech

Submitted by: fancylad 8 years ago in

Crying baby bums Obama out during Notre Dame commencement speech. So today"s I-A-B question: Abortion, yes or no?
There are 300 comments:
Male 438
We don`t even know if God`s real, why would we have the free world`s leaders listen to him?
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Female 26
Abortion should be illegal in all circumstances except when the mother`s life is in jeopardy. There is no excuse for infanticide. http://www.nlm.nih.gov/MEDLINEPLUS/ency/article/002398.htm <-Link to fetal development from the NIH.
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Male 1,399
Ever-y sperm, is sacred
Ever-y sperm, is great
IF, a sperm is waaasted
GOD GETS QUITE I-RATE
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Female 1,063
to each his/her own dammit
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Female 4,028
And by "accurate," I mean, "effective."
Ugh...
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Female 4,028
Not only that, but you can`t stop people from having sex (especially if they are married) and contraceptives are not one-hundred percent accurate, as any semi-intelligent person should know.

And part of God`s plan? Well, it`s not like you can trick God. "This guy`s going to be super rich and successful, he`s going to have a nice car, a pretty wife and... hey... where`d he go?"

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Male 160
In response to AlANeptune, that may be all well and good in the normal conception of a child, however you are completely ignoring the abnormal conceptions, such as rape victims, under age children, cases where giving birth would be fatal to the mother, and the list just kind of goes on. Also if you are going to call an abortion murder then what about when you eat an egg? And before you go off on the rant about animals not having souls, you need to first prove that the soul exists without a reasonable doubt.

Being Christian is not an excuse for being ignorant, consider the entire problem before reaching a decision.

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Female 263
I`m pro-life. I`m also Christian. (So what? It`s a free country!) I think that murdering a child before it has a chance to live is wrong. I especially hate it when someone uses abortion as birth control. Sorry, but if you get pregnant, and you don`t want your baby, you shouldn`t have been doing the deed in the first place! And I know 3 adults who are happy and thriving who were going to be aborted. Thank God they weren`t! They`re some of the best people I know. They certainly are not suffering, though all their mothers were poor.

And for those with a Christian outlook: God has used those three people for His good. They are a part of His plan, just like every child is whether in the womb or already born.

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Female 267
Also, pro-lifers, I encourage you to read the story of Gerri Santoro.

Kind of funny I should see a video about this, considering I just wrote a paper on the importance of Roe vs. Wade.

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Female 267
I`m pro-choice, however I believe that life starts shortly after conception. The way I see it, if you`re gonna have an abortion, please be responsible about it. It should not be used as a form of birth control, but it is necessary in many cases. I`d much rather lose some unborn babies than teenage mothers to their abusive parents, or seeing unwanted, unloved children be born and have a terrible life because they weren`t able to be taken care of. No one deserves that.
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Male 381
drating hell, only 5000+ hits and already 289 comments...wow.
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Male 362
I`m genrerally opposed to abortion, but the right to have one should be determined by state legislature, not the Federal government.
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Female 277
Pro-Life people, would you honestly consider it better to have a child born into a world as bad as this one, to a parent who could offer no food or warmth or love or who is abuseive than to have it ended before it can feel pain. And the thing is you go on like you are less barbaric because it is death before life but honestly what is a moment of pain compared to a life time?
You`re just like PETA, you don`t care about what you are supposedly `saving` all you care about is telling other people they are wrong and evil when in fact it is you that causes more suffering.
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Female 165
Pro-choice all the way. Actually at this point in time you could consider me pro-abortion because I don`t think pro-lifers should be worrying about "murdering" fetuses when there are thousands of orphaned children in the world. Let them take care of the ones we already have before making any more.

And anyway. Unless laws are changed by then my 30th birthday present to myself is going to be sterilization. Woo hoo

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Female 4,028
I wonder how many minds would change if all the pro-lifers became pregnant the minute they began protesting.
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Female 53
If you are so damn pro-life I hope to your god you `man` up and adopt those unwanted babies.

If not then shut the f up.

I also find it funny that most states that are `pro-life` are also pro-f`in death penalty. You don`t know who`s side you`re on. You`re just another f`in sheep in the herd. Congratulations.

Hypocrites.

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Female 1,386
"Loxen: Do you morn everytime you have a period, because one of your eggs wasn`t fertilized ?
Quit being absurd."
Hell no, I`m not pro-life... and that was kinda the point.
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Male 3,431
All your Fetus, are belong to us.
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Male 1,666
I agree with Calderis, there is supposed to be a separation of church and state.
In my opinion, Jay and Silent Bob said it best in Dogma: "A woman`s body is her own f*ckin business"
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Male 326
"If that doesn`t work, you pro-choicers will die out eventually anyway--you`re killing all the future pro-choicers."

Yes of course. Cause being born into a pro-life family environment ensures your going to be pro-life.

I was raised christian, Am agnostic as much of the rules laid out in scripture seem erroneous and bigoted to me.

I`m pro-choice for the reasons that 1) the worlds over-populated already, 2) Adoption as an option is much easier said than done, and 3) anti-abortion sentiment is almost completely fueled by religion.

Besides, outlawing abortion wouldn`t stop it, it would just take things back to when women died trying to get abortions illegally.

We live in a country that allows freedom of religion. Under that concept, Religious precepts should have no bearing on ANY legality.

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Male 160
I personally am pro-choice, and completely agree with dragonshadoz. However, there is a point where people should not be allowed to choose any longer, such as repeated pregnancies, legitimate reasons should be required in order to receive an abortion.
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Female 61
I`d just like to say this:
You morons who think being pro-choice equals being pro-abortion, you are quite wrong. They are not one and the same. People who are pro-choice do not think, "Boy, I hope someone has an abortion!" No. They are for the right for a woman to choose what she wishes to do; whether it be abortion, birth, adoption, whatever.
Get it through your thick skull. I`m so tired of the idiots who think that pro-choice people want to kill everyone. Get real.

Exactly. Thank you.

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Female 1,264
@dragonshadoz

Exactly!!! Good to know some people get it just the way it is.

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Female 4,028
I`d just like to say this:

You morons who think being pro-choice equals being pro-abortion, you are quite wrong. They are not one and the same. People who are pro-choice do not think, "Boy, I hope someone has an abortion!" No. They are for the right for a woman to choose what she wishes to do; whether it be abortion, birth, adoption, whatever.
Get it through your thick skull. I`m so tired of the idiots who think that pro-choice people want to kill everyone. Get real.

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Female 61
jtrim1 do you know what pregnant women go through?? No and you obviously never will because your a man, if you have a wife and kids good for you but ask her about the hardships she`s gone through or any other woman who has... its not easy especially if a woman who cant support herself to have the child.

Like I said people make mistakes and unfortunately there are lot of people like that and they shouldn`t get away with it but I believe people have the freedom to choose what is best for them. You cant bring people to this world unable to support them and expect a stranger take care of them because now and days you cant trust no one with your kids and the world is over populated. Why keep bringing up children and let them suffer through their lives. Men and Women both need to take care of themselves if they don`t want to end up in this situation whether is using condoms or taking birth control pills.

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Female 876
bingo5765...

You`re an idiot.

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Female 2,289
I hope that was sarcasm smartbomb... cause in that case... maybe your parents should have aborted you.
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Male 1,220
everyone should get an abortion. everyone.
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Female 2,289
I think that we should give EVERYONE the choice of abortion. It`s not right in my eyes.. but it`s none of our business. It`s THEM who will have to live the rest of their life knowing what they did and wondering if the baby really felt it... cause truth be said... we really DON`T know if the baby can feel it or not.
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Male 1,399
In addition to enslaving women and paying for their pre-natal healthcare...

...I hope all the pro-lifers are prepared to raise all of the unwanted children you would force upon the world. Feed, clothe, educate, even love.

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Female 2,674
Also, why did you put fetuses in quotes? Do you think the actual term for a fetus is the womb is "baby" or something?
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Female 2,674
Sorry I meant punished for killing the fetus as well, i.e getting charged with a double murder. Also, late term abortions are illegal/restricted/unlikely. In most places the limit is around 21 weeks because like you said it could survive outside of the womb. After that they`re mainly performed only if the woman and/or fetus is going to die and inducing labor isn`t possible.
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Female 410
make it less alive.
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Female 410
LillianDulci: "Also, late term abortions are illegal, thus why it`s possible for a person to be punished for killing a woman who is pregnant."

Not sure if you were just unclear, but it`s possible for a person to be punished for killing a woman who is pregnant because killing a woman is wrong. Your argument had nothing to do with the legality of the killing the child she is carrying.

"Abortion is different, the fetus can`t leave the woman`s womb and live. A woman who no longer wants her born children could put them up for adoption, killing them isn`t necessary once they are born since they don`t need their original mother."

A "fetus" can survive outside the womb at 20-21 weeks. By 21 to 22 weeks after fertilization, the lungs gain some ability to breathe air. This is considered the age of viability because survival outside the womb becomes possible for some "fetuses". Just because "it" exists somewhere you can`t see doesn`t m

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Female 2,674
bingo5765: Yey for false pro life propaganda :D
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Female 1,427
"Partial Birth Abortion is where the head crests the birth canal, and the doctors stab the baby in the brain with scissors then suction the brain out and discard the child. Not so god damned convenient and glorious is it?"

Why would you wait so long to finally kill the thing?

Jeeze.

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Male 207
@lilliandulci

Actually, Obama supports partial birth abortions and his administration along with a left-controlled congress has already made it legal again in many states.

Partial Birth Abortion is where the head crests the birth canal, and the doctors stab the baby in the brain with scissors then suction the brain out and discard the child. Not so god damned convenient and glorious is it?

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Female 1,427
"There is simply no way to accurately comprehend the barbarity of abortion without being exposed to the photographic evidence. The image on the far right is 24 weeks old, which is considered viable outside the womb. 18+ NSFW

If you can handle graphic video."

I thought every woman researched this before undertaking an abortion. O.o

Considering that you should know you`re killing a small baby before doing it, it makes sense.

That still wouldn`t stop me from undergoing such a procedure should I become pregnant before I can get sterilized.

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Female 410
There is simply no way to accurately comprehend the barbarity of abortion without being exposed to the photographic evidence. The image on the far right is 24 weeks old, which is considered viable outside the womb. 18+ NSFW

If you can handle graphic video.

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Female 434
I`m just writing this to clear things up. Someone said that the heart doesn`t start beating until 12 weeks. That`s not true. I was pregnant and at 5 weeks pregnant I had an ultra sound to verify the due date and I was able to see the heart beat fluttering. Other than that I`m pro-choice, just not the choice for me.
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Female 1,427
To add to my previous statement:

The ability to be sterilized is not as easy for women as one would think. Many doctors won`t preform the surgery until a woman`s had a child already.

The adoption agencies are also crap. I don`t see how abandoning a fully-produced child to be potentially adopted is any more or less cruel than killing it before it has a chance.

And how is telling a child that their birth mother didn`t want them any less drated up?

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Female 1,427
Destiny doesn`t exist; humans aren`t more or less special than any other species: we`re simply more evolved.

Humans have also evolved to be able to have sex for more than procreational purposes, i.e. we can have sex because it feels good.

There`s no "responsibility" involved here: if a woman has sex and becomes pregnant with a child she does not want, it is her complete right to terminate the pregnancy.

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Male 115
I say no abortion unless it is a case of rape or if the mother wont survive the birth of the child.
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Female 23
I don`t personally believe in abortion, I think it`s morally wrong. However, I do not believe that it`s the government`s right to tell a woman if she can or not.

It`s an individual choice, I just think there should be a lot more information out there about the emotional effects that having an abortion may cause.

I was adopted as a baby, by two wonderful loving parents. My biological parents were teenagers, 17 and 18 years old. I just have to think... "what if my parents took the easy way out?"

Just think, the person that was destined to change the world may never get the chance because of a bad choice made by his or her mother.

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Male 26
A life begins when it attaches to the lining of the uterus and begins to grow. Life is contained in 6 characteristics: cells, organisation, growth, energy use, homeostasis, and reproduction...It`s easy to see that a child in the womb fills all of these requirements except reproduction--but then again, infertile people don`t either.
To the women who say that carrying a child is a "burden" and that because men are pro-life that we are pro-woman suffering should be made infertile as soon as possible--then you won`t have to worry about it at all.
If that doesn`t work, you pro-choicers will die out eventually anyway--you`re killing all the future pro-choicers.
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Male 2,172
"CrakrJak:So if you kill a fetus that has a beating heart, It is murder. That happens around 12 weeks (3 months)."

What if, in some cases, it happens before that? What if your baby`s heart starts beating the very first week and you decided to have the abortion anyway?

I know what you`re going to say, that "It never happens" but that`s only true until it does. Nobody has complete control over life. Not even the president of the united states.

I`m not pro-life and I`m not pro-choice. I`m neutral in this debate because nobody`s right.

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Female 4,028
Hey, a dead horse! Who has the stick?
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Male 9,305
Ugh not this horsepoo again...
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Male 17,511
19940321: If i stopped your heart from beating, You`d be dead and I`d have murdered you. So strictly based on logic, When your heart starts beating you`re alive.

So if you kill a fetus that has a beating heart, It is murder. That happens around 12 weeks (3 months).

This argument completely takes religion and the mothers body out of the equation and boils it down to a simple and easily verifiable fact.

12 weeks, That`s more than enough time to make a decision. 12 weeks is a fair and just line to draw.

The problem is, Quite frankly, People in power have polarized this an "All or nothing" issue where no compromises will be accepted.

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Female 2,674
Also, late term abortions are illegal, thus why it`s possible for a person to be punished for killing a woman who is pregnant.
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Female 2,674
Abortion is different, the fetus can`t leave the woman`s womb and live. A woman who no longer wants her born children could put them up for adoption, killing them isn`t necessary once they are born since they don`t need their original mother.
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Female 778
if abortion is okay, then susan smith shouldn`t be punished, right? really it`s the same thing, she just realized she didn`t want her kids later than a woman who gets an abortion. baelzar said forcing a woman to carry a child and risk childbirth would be slavery; so would forcing a woman to keep children she already has and decides she doesn`t want, right?

there is no one who would agree with what i just said because it`s ignorant and wrong, it`s murder, and it`s not allowed by law. you wouldn`t kill a baby who`s been born or child, how can you possibly think it`s okay to kill a baby in the womb? there are laws that punish criminals who injure or kill a mother and as a result kill her unborn child. abortion is no different.

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Male 78
"Abortion is murder! There`s NO way around it. However, some people have the same beliefs as I do, and it is not our place to judge. The Government should stay out of the issue. Let God decide what happens to the murderous mothers when judgement day comes. It`s not our place."

Really? That`s your argument, God doesn`t like it? PFfft

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Male 2
@LadyChula629

Who`s body is the baby that is being killed? just curious.

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Male 559
Abortion is murder! There`s NO way around it. However, some people have the same beliefs as I do, and it is not our place to judge. The Government should stay out of the issue. Let God decide what happens to the murderous mothers when judgement day comes. It`s not our place.
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Female 4,376
I`m pro-choice. That`s pretty much it. I don`t feel the need to rant endlessly and fight for days on the topic. Plain and simple i`m pro-choice. If you`re pro-life that`s great. Don`t change me, I won`t change you and we can all get along.
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Female 61
Its a woman`s choice because its her body. Yes.. there are a lot of irresponsible people in this world but think about it.. if abortion was illegal people are still going to find a unsanitary way to abort for example.. by using hangers and other graphic methods. A lot of men on here say "Its their fault so they should deal with it"... sorry guys but you are not the ones carrying the burden for 9 months and on.. a lot not all of you find the easy way out and not want to deal with part of the responsibilities and never learn from your mistakes. it takes 2 people to conceive and unfortunately women deal with the child birth. I am pro-choice and i do believe that its a woman`s body so its her decision.
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Male 7
@bingo that is an ENTIRELY fallacious argument.
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Male 1,399
So those of you arguing against abortion...are you willing to enslave all women then?

Forcing someone to carry a baby to term, to endure pregnancy and risk childbirth is nothing less than slavery.

What are you going to do? Lock women up like cattle until the baby is born?

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Male 11
So Theres like 7 Billion of us, give or take...
Im mean Really? I am Pro-Choice. Its THEIR body its THEIR choice.

It is honest a mass of cells until what some people call the quickening or in the case im refering to the first heartbeat. Its just a mass of cells.

Fortunately for us we dont need fetuses for stem cell research

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Male 182
YESSSSSS!!!!! ABORTION!!!!!!! It should be legal up to and including the childs first birthday.
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Female 410
See Samuel`s incredible "fetal" hand grasp photo at a doctor`s finger at 21 weeks. The doctor performed spinal bifida surgery on him in the womb. He is 9 years old now.
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Male 207
@ videogamer.
If your argument stands, then it should be legal to murder sleeping people, because they are neither conscious nor controlling their thoughts. I don`t think it is, moron.
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Male 2,605
"For fair and balanced discussion..."

Sorry, bud, but I just browsed around and saw little besides pro-life apologetics. Not that I expected a fair and balanced discussion in something with a biased domain name. Stop plugging your own sh*t.

"We know the unborn are alive, because they`re growing."

Just because something is growing doesn`t mean it is alive and worth preserving. Cancerous cells are alive because they satisfy the characteristics of life (remember that from biology class, don`t you?). I`m not suggesting fetuses are comparable to cancer and that we should exterminate both on those grounds, I`m just calling out the hypocricy in exterminating one and not the other when fetuses are also a health hazard in that they supress the mother`s immune system.

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Male 12
Do pro-life people allow abortions of embryos extremely early in the first trimester? I have created computer programs with more simulated neurons than a blastocyst has cells, yet it would not be wrong to turn off my computer and kill all the hundreds of little "brains" living in there.
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Male 3
We know the unborn are alive, because they`re growing. We know the unborn are human, because they have human parents. I think human beings are valuable and ought not be killed to make our lives more convenient.

In the long sad history of the human race, we`ve discriminated against people based on their race and gender. Now we`re discriminating against people based on their size, level of development, location and degree of dependency.

We`ve simply exchanged one form of discrimination for another.

For fair and balanced discussion of abortion/stem cell research, check out ProLifePodcast.net. While I am pro-life, other pro-lifers hate me because I am brutally honest about the weaknesses in common pro-life arguments and tactics. I`m fair to both sides, which is why so many pro-choicers enjoy the show.

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Female 660
And that whole = sex is for reproduction bs

look how stupid it looks;
cancer is for death,anyone doing chemo should just get over it and die

How about people with erectile dysfunction? No viagra for them because what? "sex is only for reproduction" in ,so it would make no sense to actually enjoy it.

Modern medicine isn`t only limited to men and death.

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Female 660
I can never understand how people would compare a lump of cells to a full developed human being. I am pro choice.

and that slave/fetus agruement is the same what Peta does. Maybe to You,fetusses are lil slaves in evil incubators that would rid them if they had a choice; it makes no sense.People who choose to get pregnant aren`t slavekeepers,people who abort aren`t either.

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Male 3,369
If my wife told me today that she was pregnant, I would consider it to be a baby. With that being said, I think it would be a terrible mistake to outlaw abortion, and I`llo bet you the real reason that baby was crying is because some cupid stunt from Fox Noise was poking him/her with a pin.
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Male 221
Sex is the act of reproduction, it`s not just the act of pleasuring one`s self. So if a woman gets pregnant from sex, she should have to keep her baby.

The only exception I see, is if the woman was raped.

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Male 2,605
Baalthazaq, you can`t get away with comparing a fetus to a slave because a slave isn`t biologically dependent upon another person. But why are you arguing when a fetus becomes alive in the first place? That`s subjective, and we can`t be making arguments that are subjective, don`t you know!
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Male 722
videogamer wins one whole internet!
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Male 4,593
videogamer: Best post ever!
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Female 47
hahaha videogamer, that was great.
btw, abortion: yes.
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Male 3,014
"Why do they not have the value of a person?"

Because they are incapable of controlled, conscious thought.

"Why is it anyone`s right to choose for them if they have rights?"

A fetus does not have rights if it is incapable of decision, which requires only controlled, conscious thought, which a fetus lacks.

"Why should people be silenced on an issue where they believe millions are killed?"

I don`t think everyone should be silenced. Just the ultra-Christian freaks who stake out at State and Lake with pictures of dead babies and compare pro-choice people to Nazis because Nazis aborted babies. (I`m a pro-choice Jew, so being compared to a Nazi upsets me like you wouldn`t believe.)

"Why should people remain silent when a person`s rights are ignored?"

They shouldn`t, but I already said that fetuses don`t have rights.

"Why is the above a different scenario?"

Because the slaves were humans with controlled, conscious thought.

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Male 239
Baalthazaq, great point.
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Male 239
I have a 4 month old child, and I used to be for abortion, but now I can`t imagine her not being here. I don`t think abortion should be used so freely. If some extreme circumstances, maybe. Other than that, if you play you pay.
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Male 1,129
so what you had an abortion. there are too many people in the world as it is.
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Male 1,629
i hate to say it but Baalthazaq has a valid point, a lot of people take sides on many topics. (not just abortion) without even knowing why they feel the way they say they feel. in certain circumstances i have been guilty of the same.

Baalthazaq, good example using slavery. that will definitely get peoples attention. lets hope your point isnt lost

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Male 10
in the words of Ab. Fabs Patsy "Abort Abort Abort CHUCK IT DOWN THE PAN Bring me... A KNITTING NEEDLE!"
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Male 1,383
How about:

Have the option so that people who want it can have it?!?!?!

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Male 424
Yay abortion! But usually it is easier to use a condom in the first place.
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Male 4,546
Sigh.

I support fully the right of slave owners to CHOOSE what they do with THEIR slaves who are only 3/5ths the value of a human being. I understand it`s a shame but why should I interfere with the rights of slave owners when I myself have none?

It`s just not my place to speak on the issue.

If you take issue with any of the above, perhaps reconsider why you hold any of the above opinions when it comes to Abortion.

Why do they not have the value of a person?
Why is it anyone`s right to choose for them if they have rights?
Why should people be silenced on an issue where they believe millions are killed?
Why should people remain silent when a person`s rights are ignored?
Why is the above a different scenario?

Decide, right now, prior to research, at which point it is wrong to abort. Sentience? Heartbeat? When they feel? When they dream? Then look up when that happens in the womb.

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Female 688
Scenario B: The Child might be born with a birth defect, such as Down Syndrome, or mental retardation.

My sister was Down Syndrome, so I know first hand what it`s like. I know the facts about Down Syndrome children. If I knew that my child was going to be Down Syndrome, I don`t think that I could have it aborted. Just because someone isn`t perfect doesn`t mean that they shouldn`t live.

Scenario C: Rape and incest scenario. This one, I don`t know. I know that I would pray long and hard about it, especially on incest.

Truth is, if your first option is aborting, you might be aborting that one person who will love you unconditionally. That one person who will always be there for you.

I don`t have any kids. I don`t want any kids. (especially right now in life). But I don`t see how any person could go into a doctor`s office knowing that their intention was to take a life. Especially their own child`s life.

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Female 688
If you are going to abort the baby, kill the parents while you`re at it.

"And I know what you`re going to say. If you kill the mother the fetus dies. Well the fetus is going to be aborted anyway so why not let it go down with the ship." The Birdcage

I honestly think we should teach people to think more with their heads and hearts before they jump into bed. If they are not ready for a baby, they should take extra precaution before having sex. Stupidity should not be rewarded. Lack of responsibility should not be rewarded.

It angers me when there are so many people who are irresponsible. (and yes a majority of the aborted fetus are from irresponsible people.) And then they want the rest of the world to justify their actions

Scenario A: Having this baby can cause me to die. If between me and the child. I choose the child to live.

to be continued.

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Male 844
imo, It should be the woman`s decision for abortion
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Male 1,086
Did I just waste three minutes of my life listening to him state the obvious?
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Male 814
Abi, the process of adoption is very long and arduous
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Male 75
It really seems to be the difference of a personal opinion and simply what`s a persons freedom. I really don`t know if I would want my child to be aborted(I am a dude) but it`s simply not my choice. It`s not my body. I would support in full either way but it`s a persons freedom to do with their body as THEY choose.
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Female 171
Actually mantolwen I believe it`s the other way round.

There`s a shortage of people adopting children and the foster/adoption homes are bursting at the seams.

I`m pro-choice. And I don`t believe it`s a mans decision if a woman is allowed an abortion.

:]

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Male 355
Pro-Choice all the way. Your body your call. adoption is one awnser if you want to go that way but I would hate to give up a child after birth. O-Yea I will be a father in 4 weeks yea.
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Male 1,929
Nice point, nicely made.

I`ll leave the abortion debate to my American friends.

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Female 387
What about adoption? There are THOUSANDS of couples wanting to adopt but who cannot because there aren`t enough babies around.

I`m pro-adoption.

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Female 1,095
Come one guys, there are enough people in the world to sacrifice a few embryos. And what if these children weren`t aborted, would their parents take care of them? And adoption isn`t always the answer, sometimes that doesn`t work either. But you know what always works? Abortion. I`m just saying, I`m pro-choice because if you`re a normal person it is a very tough decision.
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Male 782
"Loxen: Do you morn everytime you have a period, because one of your eggs wasn`t fertilized ?

Quit being absurd."

+1

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Male 782
My mother was given up at birth for adoption, so yeah, I wouldn`t be here if she was aborted. Pro-Life.
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Male 8,300
> AnImbroglio
> And for all of those posting arguments... Perhaps this thread would be better served by stating facts, rather than opinions

Oh c`mon, what would IAB be like if all we ever did was that?

> Gee that photo is awful

> Yes it is

> Yes it is

> Yes it is

> Yes it is

> Yes it is

> Yes it is

> Yes it is

> Yes it is

Nah, doesn`t work for me.

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Male 19
Yes.
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Male 137
Abortion is wrong, UNLESS it is performed in conjunction with a time travel machine for the purpose of going back in time to prevent the birth of Keanu Reeves.
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Male 207
I think Obama`s message would serve well in this thread. He basically pointed out that the 2 sides will never agreed on this one, so we should focus our energy, not on trying to change each others minds, but coming up with solutions on preventing unwanted pregs,making adoptions easier, and taking care of the mothers the carry to term. Can`t we at least agree on that?
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Male 352
I came, I saw a lot of stupid, ignorant people, and I left.
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Female 1,412
this is too hot a topic to be debated in the comments of iab, i think. lol
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Male 838
And for all of those posting arguments... Perhaps this thread would be better served by stating facts, rather than opinions. You saying you don`t believe it`s alive or that it is alive doesn`t really further anyone`s cause. It just tells us you believe it. If you can`t tell us WHY you believe that way, then save the trouble of posting.
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Male 838
Ouu. This is a hot little topic, now isn`t it. The argument should solely rest on whether or not the fetus is alive. Nothing else. Throw out rape, finances, lifestyle, everything. Doesn`t matter. Either it`s alive, or it`s not. If it`s alive, it`s still murder, regardless of mitigating circumstances. If it`s not, then it`s the woman`s body, and she should feel free to do with it as she wants. So then you argue the definition of alive. By biological standards, that definition is almost unanimously "cellular mitosis." If a bacterium can replicate its own cells, then it is alive. But we kill lesser organisms all the time, and no one argues. So is the fetus a lesser organism? Well, we all know what happens in 9 months. You don`t deliver a puppy. So it is human, then. So the only other argument that can possibly apply is sentience. If it is aware, then it is unethical to kill it. Since we can`t determine when it`s actually aware, who are we to say we can kill it, exactly?
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Male 237
"That being said i must interject at all of these pro lifers. It`s the woman`s choice. It`s not murder because the baby isn`t even technically alive. And dont come back with that "you never gave it a chance to get life" crap either. Let`s face it: if there is a "God" or any other form of higher being/power and It had an issue with it then i would assume that It would intervene. P.S. i dont like christians. :P"

I`m not going to argue life OR choice here, but suggesting that if God didn`t like abortion he would intervene basically strips all idea of free will from humanity.

"I thought I aborted that fetus... surprise, it`s still growing!"

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Male 1,685
VV yes, I am one of the douche-bags trying out the `fun-with-the-language-filter` game.
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Male 1,685
I am a pretty little girl

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Male 17,511
I`ve expressed the opinion that once your heart stops beating your dead, So purely being logical here, Then when your heart starts beating your alive. Fetus` hearts start beating around 12 weeks.
I believe that would be an acceptable and livable compromise, But neither side would ever accept such a compromise. It`s become to polarized now.
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Male 17,511
Loxen: Do you morn everytime you have a period, because one of your eggs wasn`t fertilized ?

Quit being absurd.

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Female 15,763
Heh... spooge...

I need sleep. @[email protected]

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Female 1,386
I sometimes wonder if male Pro-lifers grieve every time they masturbate. How terrible to kill potential half humans for the purpose of self pleasure...
Oh wait, that`s different though... because its inconvenient to think of spooge as being the same as a fetus (minus egg) because that would restrict your choice to masturbate. (lol hypocrites.)
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Female 15,763
Part of me really wants to say stuff... but the other part is smarter than that.
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Male 338
Monday, May 18, 2009 10:40:06 PM
The fetus derives 50% of its genetic material from the mother. The fetus is not alive because it cannot survive independently until birth.
amen to that. if some broad was raped by some priest, whom i believe are all sick [email protected]#ks. she,if she so decided did not feel like it should be carried full term that`s her choice. no one else`s.
i have kids and would never personally abort one but that`s me. i`m not going to dictate what other people can do because i don`t like it.
you people are like nazis messin with other peoples lives, start adopting the unwanted and abused children and shut the hell up.
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Male 833
"Pro-choice, because I think it`s creepy for a government to control women`s reproductive organs."

Dont live in china :O

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Male 833
they try to do in that argument what they always do, claim that since you cant prove god doesn`t exist, he must exist... that`s not how things work. You prove things into existence not believe everything until it is disproven.
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Female 370
Pro-choice, because I think it`s creepy for a government to control women`s reproductive organs.
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Male 1,629
i have expressed my opinions and stated facts i have researched before and people are to closed minded to how things really are. A FETUS IS NOT A PERSON, just being human DOES NOT MAKE YOU A PERSON, the term person is in dire need of redefinition. conciousness/sentience/etc.. and not im gunna shutup
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Male 8,300
Blah blah blah blah, blah blah! Blah blah and blah some more, blah blah... oh sorry, is someone actually READING all these arguments? My bad.
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Male 7,933
link i take back what i said...zindler isnt funny...at all
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Male 207
I think Obama`s message would serve well in this thread. He basically pointed out that the 2 sides will never agreed on this one, so we should focus our energy, not on trying to change each others minds, but coming up with solutions on preventing unwanted pregs,making adoptions easier, and taking care of the mothers the carry to term. Can`t we at least agree on that?
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Male 425
My my my. I see alot of racy opinions here maybe i shall present my view. First: @Bonzoello AWESOME.
That being said i must interject at all of these pro lifers. It`s the woman`s choice. It`s not murder because the baby isn`t even technically alive. And dont come back with that "you never gave it a chance to get life" crap either. Let`s face it: if there is a "God" or any other form of higher being/power and It had an issue with it then i would assume that It would intervene. P.S. i dont like christians. :P
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Male 2,605
Sorry for the two posts, but I just read a few other comments.

Until a child is born, the fetus depends fully on the mother for its survival. Therefore the fetus` survival, until birth, is fully at the discretion of the mother. No government should have the right to force a mother to carry a child, regardless the circumstances surrounding the conception. Personally I think it irresponsible to have sex without contraception and use abortion as a fail-safe, but that is at least preferable to a mother not being able to terminate an unwanted pregnancy. Realize that having a child is a life-long commitment; a commitment most people may not want to be forced to accept.

"Thing is, IT`S NOT THEIR BODY! Your messing with ANOTHER person`s life, not yours."

The fetus derives 50% of its genetic material from the mother. The fetus is not alive because it cannot survive independently until birth.

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Male 7,933
link, that is a very good link i gotta say
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Male 228
next time I see a pro-lifer eating an omelette, I`m going to scream GENOCIDE in their face!
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Male 2,605
Abortion: yes. If an omnipotent god really cared enough don`t you think he`d intervene and wouldn`t have to rely on us to do his bidding for him?
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Male 970
YES
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Male 207
Abortion is wrong. Human life starts when 46 chromosomes are assembled, sorry there isn`t a reset button on your life, but murdering a child isn`t going to make you unraped. (also abortion just because someone "accidentally" got pregnant is just ridiculous).

It is murder, stop rationalizing it. Oh but what if the girl got raped and it was raining and her dad beat her and blah blah blah. I don`t care if your mother spit in your face and threw you on the street, you don`t have the right to murder.

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Male 272
i was aborted and im fine
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Female 2,289
and that`s all I have to say on this subject... don`t pull me in.
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Female 2,289
If you get raped and then you get pregnant... Keep the baby. Sure, it`s his blood.... but it`s also yours. If you don`t think that you can raise this baby right and let alone yourself... have the baby anyway. Everyone on this earth is glad that they were born no matter what they want to say. Your baby could make history. Don`t take away that opportunity... please
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Male 5,189
I went through the comments and saw everything going into religion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5hOza8GT...

This should settle those debates. Watch all 15 of em if you want. :D

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Female 239
there will always be abortions legally or not...
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Male 5,189
Yes and No. Yes for rape. No for teenagers. If they`re stupid enough to get pregnant then let then suffer...but then think about the child..Hmmm to many reasons to choose from...can`t really choose. >_< I say make acceptions(sp) or something I dunno.
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Female 328
If you value your right to choose, value another`s right to choose what is right and wrong for them. When was the last time you hugged a pro-lifer?

As for me, I`ll turn my baby into chunky salsa if that`s my inclination. And in turn, I will respect the legions that bring babies into hazardous, abusive, and ill-prepared enviroments. Where`s the love? It`s right here, buddy. *hug*

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Female 2,674
pregnancy. It`s not like being pregnant extremely easy and doesn`t affect the womans life at all if she decides to give the baby up for adoption. The woman has to live with the major life changes for 9 months and (possibly less major, possibly even worse with death or other huge complications) life changes that last for her whole life. No woman should be forced to go through a pregnancy that she doesn`t want.
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Male 483
primetimekin, do you have an AIM screen? I would like to debate with you sometime, you seem like a fun person to talk to since you actually provide evidence and have an attitude that i interpret as liking discussion, rather than a *BLAHBLAH I WON`T HEAR YOU BLAH BLAH I`M RIGHT* attitude that i tend to encounter far too often.
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Female 519
I`m pro-choice because little girls who have been raped by awful men shouldn`t have to cary a baby that will destroy their bodies and cause them even more trauma.
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Female 2,674
Pat125, though I agree that it is someone elses body and life, it also is the womans body and life. The womans body is forever changed from pregnancy and it`s not just the look but there are health problems that result from pregnancy (and stay around after birth). Even healthy women with healthy babies and healthy bodies could die from pregnancy or child birth. During pregnancy, women are extremely restricted on what they are allowed to do. A woman who wants to be pregnant will be fine with making those changes, a woman who is forced to stay pregnant will not which would harm the fetus anyway. So, when a pro choice person says "others shouldn`t dictate what others do to their body" they are referring to the womans body and life since she actually has a developed body and developed life. I hate when people try to dictate what I do with my life and I`m sure most people would agree. There`s no reason to do that to a pregnant woman with as many health issues that come with pregna
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Male 756
"I`m pro choice because others shouldn`t dictate what others do to their body. Also when religious f*cks get in the way of scientific advancement, well suffice to say, nothing else gets me angrier. Grr."

-------------

You have just exemplified what`s fundamentally wrong with the "pro choice" argument. This flawed logic is based on the assumption that an abortion is along the same lines as a piercing or a tattoo. "If someone wants to mess with their body, let them." Thing is, IT`S NOT THEIR BODY! Your messing with ANOTHER person`s life, not yours. A fetus is not an extension of the mother, it`s another being. It amazes me how people trivialize life until it pops out of the vagina.

And don`t get me started on partial birth abortion (smashing a late-term fetus` skull so it can be "removed"). That sh*t should be punishable by death.

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Male 1,496
I`m pro choice because others shouldn`t dictate what others do to their body. Also when religious f*cks get in the way of scientific advancement, well suffice to say, nothing else gets me angrier. Grr.
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Male 756
The baby is RACIST! End of story.

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Male 516
Only a few hours and over seven pages of posts... DAMN!
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Female 1,269
hmmm the definitions i found beg to differ sajo...

but thats hardly the point. like i said im not looking to argue. i havent accused anyone. can you just explain to me your point of view? im not a close minded person. i have my opinion and you all have yours...i just want to know them both fully. how ignorant would i be to actually argue withouy understanding the other person`s view completely? ;]

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Male 338
oh and the mormans made up some crazy ass religion that is as believable as the bible, not very.
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Female 1,386
If a person wants it removed, they should have control and say over their own body to do as they wish. Let THEM deal with the moral consequences, its none of YOUR/MY business. If you feel its wrong and have some religious problem with it, then let that person take it up with "God" later, that`s not your business either so keep your noses out of it. If GOD has a plan, then that abortion is part of it, and you`re just mucking things up by being where you`re not wanted.
IMO: Not your body? None of your business.
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Male 833
and no you didnt
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Male 338
the catholic church has been messing with it for thousands of years. and by saying hicks i meant a bunch of inbread idiots in the middle of a freakin desert.
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Male 833
heh mormans make me giggle
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Male 7,933
"right but just cause its a moral story doesn`t mean gods exist."
I already answered that
"I don`t deny or necessarily accept it happened. Sure there are some universal believes; Jesus is the messiah; God is all powerful etc etc, but whether or not mosses crossed the red or the Reed sea doesnt really matter."

"edited so many times and written by a bunch of hicks"

Hicks are only in America. I think its the Mormons the only ones that use an American originated bible. Maybe episcopelians too.

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Male 436
"someone said ,"how is a fetus a person?"
sooo when human sperm meets human egg why would it for ANY amount of time not be human?"

When the sperm meets the egg it is a HUMAN FETUS, not a PERSON. They are NOT interchangeable terms.

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Male 1,399
Lionhart2: If I cut my arm off, my arm wouldn`t have rights. Would it?

Keep your god out of our lives.

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Male 776
"And that is a religious person stuck in a corner, with no further material to debate with, they go with the "im right your wrong" response."

cant just call it a night can you? an olive branch that encompasses everybody under the human ability to err is extended and the argumentative always find a way around it....

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Male 338
the bible has been edited so many times and written by a bunch of hicks in the middle of nowhere, where "magic" mushrooms grow everywhere as well as poppy. its as believable as alice in wonderland. its bull [email protected]#t. just a moral compass for all the asses that lived back then. get over it evolve a little its not relevant.
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Female 1,269
ok so i just read through some comments...
someone said ,"how is a fetus a person?"
sooo when human sperm meets human egg why would it for ANY amount of time not be human?

another person, talking about teen pregnancy i think said "accidents happen"
no no no no. accidents? no matter what the cause whether rape, or un-protected sex or whatever. a life is not ever an `accident`. a baby is not a mistake. I honestly cant say that i see where your coming from when you say it could be morally right for someone to let another person rip their child that has never even breathed and will never do so now, out of her body. and then throw it away like a piece of trash...
i am not here t argue i just would like to see this from a point of view that shows me this isnt disgusting and vile in every way possible.

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Male 15,832
This issue is never going away. The vast majority support at least some restrictions, e.g., parental notification and no late-term abortions except when it`s life-threatening. On the other hand, a right-to-life amendment and a federal prohibition law could never be enforced. We would have to give pregnancy tests to every woman of childbearing age before she could leave the country, and those who tested positive would be tested again on return. Are we really up for that?

The policy will always swing back and forth in the political winds between the two extremes. There is, however, one factor favoring the pro-life position: the Roe Effect. Children tend to adopt their parents` politics, and pro-choice Democrat women are very much more likely to have abortions. Consider that over 20 million babies aborted from 1973 to 1991 would be of voting age today, and it`s likely that group would vote heavily Democratic. In other words, the "victims" of abortion are mostly future Democrat

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Male 4,290
"Everyones belief on this site is wrong."

Agreed :)

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Male 833
"But in conclusion.

Everyones belief on this site is wrong."

And that is a religious person stuck in a corner, with no further material to debate with, they go with the "im right your wrong" response.

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Male 833
right so the bible is a book that teaches good practices (sometimes)... well so does a self help book.

your just saying the bible is a moral story... right but just cause its a moral story doesn`t mean gods exist.

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Male 7,933
yeah I think im going to sleep too.

But in conclusion.

Everyones belief on this site is wrong.

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Male 4,290
Anyway, back on-topic before I go to bed:

I am pro-choice, but I think an abortion should be the last resort. Prevention is much better all-round.

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Male 833
almightybob has it down, just believe in the unknown. Nothing is impossible, just varying degrees of probability.
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Male 7,933
"right but how can you assume the book is right? do you just pick some parts of the religion and say yes, and other parts no?"

Once again, how important is it that two of every animal went on a boat? Isn`t the message more important.

I don`t deny or necessarily accept it happened. Sure there are some universal believes; Jesus is the messiah; God is all powerful etc etc, but whether or not mosses crossed the red or the Reed sea doesnt really matter.

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Male 820
[quote]meowmeowmeow
Male, 13-17, Eastern US
72 Posts Monday, May 18, 2009 8:01:05 PM
drat Intelligent Desigh and that crappy poo
GOO DARWIN, I SHALL ALWAYS BELIEVE IN EVOLUTION!!
AALL HAIL EVOLUTION!!1[/quote]

I`m just going to assume you`re a troll

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Male 4,290
"Thats because you`ve probably been talking to Westboro Baptist."

Definitely not, they`re not allowed into our country :D

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Male 833
"....but the message of if you obey God you will receive is much more important."

right but how can you assume the book is right? do you just pick some parts of the religion and say yes, and other parts no?

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Male 436
"Sajo, how is a fetus NOT a person?? If you cut your own arm off, would you claim it wasn`t part of a human?"

A fetus does not possess the characteristics of a person.

And if you removed my arm, it would still be my arm.

If you removed a fetus, it would still be a fetus, not a person. It has the potential to be a person, but it is not a person until it reaches that potential.

And Prime, my bad I should start taking note of people`s names.

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Male 4,290
"I SHALL ALWAYS BELIEVE IN EVOLUTION!!"

That`s just as bad as "I shall always believe in creation!". Blind belief in anything is ridiculous.

No good scientist will ever tell you that they will always believe in something, because new evidence could be found tomorrow which would require the Theory of Evolution to be totally re-evaluated, or even discarded if the new evidence was strong enough.

That`s why they`re called theories in science: They`re working models which explain everything we know so far, but we admit that we don`t know everything, and there`s always a small chance we could be wrong.

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Male 7,933
"AALL HAIL EVOLUTION!!1"

I think your the best proof so far that it isnt true.

"so now you admit the bible has untruths in it, so how can you take it to heart so well?"

When have i said that?

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Male 820
*jumps into the flame war for a post*
[quote]Matthew 4:8 "the devil again took him to the top of a very high mountain to show him all the kingdoms of the world in their splendor" they only way that would of been possible is if the Earth was flat[/quote]

In those days, "all the kingdoms of the world in their splendor" is a reference to the kingdoms known to the people in that area. I.E. Greece, Egypt...,

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Male 7,933
"But these details are often espoused as proof that God/Jesus is all-powerful. I`m genuinely surprised here, this is the first time a believer has said to me that these particular bits are not bona fide facts."

Thats because you`ve probably been talking to Westboro Baptist.

The point of the Bible is the interpretation. Sure I can show how there was in fact a world wide flood, or at least their definition of worldwide which was the middle east and say thats absolute proof, but the message of if you obey God you will receive is much more important.

Now don`t get the idea that I`m saying its wrong or unlikely or impossible, I just think that focusing on that is as important as finding out what type of pen was used in writing the bible.

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Male 833
see that would work addler, but laws never seem to compromise...
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Male 776
the best comrpomise so far is the idea of legalizing abortion on the grounds that it is both in the early stages as well as forced (think rape victims)

this seems to eliminate most of the cruelty/stupidity that brings about abortions, while keeping legal only for those who truly "need" it

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Male 833
primekin sounds like an angry child, no need for that, just debate.
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Male 187
drat Intelligent Desigh and that crappy poo
GOO DARWIN, I SHALL ALWAYS BELIEVE IN EVOLUTION!!
AALL HAIL EVOLUTION!!1
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Male 833
so now you admit the bible has untruths in it, so how can you take it to heart so well?
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Male 7,933
"ya know, these anti abortion people talk alot. but they are not adopting all the unwanted children. so please shut the hell up and mind your own business. it has nothing to do with you."

You know, all these Save Zimbabwe people keep yapping it up about how we should do something, but I don`t see them rebelling against Mugape, so please shut the hell up and mind your own business

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Male 4,290
"What I`m saying is to look for the importance of the passage rather than focusing on the detail."

But these details are often espoused as proof that God/Jesus is all-powerful. I`m genuinely surprised here, this is the first time a believer has said to me that these particular bits are not bona fide facts.

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Male 833
and who do you think wrote the bible you beleive in anyway? god himself? or the followers of a religion that has slain many in the name of its lord?
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Female 470
I, personally, would not choose abortion (Due to my morals and religion). But I think everyone should have a choice, so yeah I`m pro-choice.

But I think I`m just gonna do like je_scream, and just watch y`alls debate. It`s curing my boredom far more than this link itself.

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Male 338
ya know, these anti abortion people talk alot. but they are not adopting all the unwanted children. so please shut the hell up and mind your own business. it has nothing to do with you.
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Male 7,933
"- talking, burning bush
- parting of the Red Sea
- water into wine
- feeding of the five thousand
- Jesus walking on water
Are you saying they didn`t really happen? That they`re no more factual than Aesop`s Fables?"

yes/no. I`m saying that they did not necessarily happen the way it is described in the Bible and that thanks to the lovely and talented Paul, some stories were exagerated. What I`m saying is to look for the importance of the passage rather than focusing on the detail.

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Male 833
i agree that parts of the bible are moral, but still a work of fiction.
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Male 4,290
Sure, the Bible can have parables. But I`ve always been told that the following are genuine miracles that really happened and prove God can do anything:

- talking, burning bush
- parting of the Red Sea
- water into wine
- feeding of the five thousand
- Jesus walking on water

Are you saying they didn`t really happen? That they`re no more factual than Aesop`s Fables?

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Male 7,933
ok raber, fair enough. Now tell me, what was the purpose of those to passages rather than just the direct lines.
Its the meaning thats more important than the detail
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Male 361
Circle=2D can`t exist in a 3D universe in order to exist in this dimension you need to have length width and heighth a sphere=3D can exist in this deimension
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Female 761
*grabs a folding chair and pillow to watch the debate rage on* continue on 8-)
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Male 7,933
"Are you calling people trash?"

Yes im calling trashcan678, trash.

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Male 8,300
> Sajo
> Lionhart: How is a fetus a person?

Sajo, how is a fetus NOT a person?? If you cut your own arm off, would you claim it wasn`t part of a human?

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Male 833
ISA 14:21 Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers; that they do not rise, nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities.

DEU 24:16 The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.

one of many contradictions...

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Male 7,933
the Hebrew word that it was translated for is often taken as "ball". thats why its circle [sphere]
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Male 436
"We can play this interpretation game all day long trash."

Are you calling people trash?

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Male 833
Exactly, the bible is simply an interpretation, every single one of them. Written how the priests of that time wanted them written.
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Male 7,933
"Aesop never claimed his stories were factual events."

Not at one point does it say that everything in the Bible is to be taken word for word. If Aesop can have parables why can`t the bible?

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Male 4,290
Woah woah woah. Circle = sphere now? I must have missed that bulletin.
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Male 7,933
"It is he [God] that sitteth upon the circle [sphere] of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers…"
(Isaiah 40:22).

We can play this interpretation game all day long trash.

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Male 4,290
"No one ever bitched to aesop that birds cant drating talk"

Aesop never claimed his stories were factual events.

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Male 436
""Fetuses NEED their mother to eat FOR them."
Fine, a 1 day old baby. Same poo."

No, I could feed the baby instead. There are formulas and whatnot that can be substituted for breast milk.

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Male 4,290
"The very definition of sex is to procreate--to make babies"

So what about sterile couples? Should they just never have sex?

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Male 7,933
"If most people believed that unicorns existed, would the burden of proof be on you to prove that they don`t?"

Yes. Thats the cultural norm. Right now we believe that women are equal so....this isnt going to come off as i intended to so nvm.

""I am the God of the Bible, worship me or be tortured forever" that would be fairly compelling evidence." It wouldn`t be "evidence", but I`m sure there would be a few converts.

"Or indeed, voices from burning bushes, fish and loaves cloning themselves, or any of the other Biblical miracles which were dime a dozen, seemingly daily events back then."

Am I the only person that took English? Why do people hate rhetorical devices so much. No one ever bitched to aesop that birds cant drating talk

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Male 4,290
"the great gatsby has contradictions"

Another great work of fiction.

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Male 436
Hahahahah Corynn! Stop being a grammar nazi. :P
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Male 361
Prime: Matthew 4:8 "the devil again took him to the top of a very high mountain to show him all the kindoms of the world in their splendor" they only way that would of been possible is if the Earth was flat
Issiah 11:12 basically says that the people of Judah will be gathered from the 4 corners of the Earth. Spheres have no corners.
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Male 4,290
"3a)According to John Stuart Mills it lied with those making the opposition to cultural norms."

If most people believed that unicorns existed, would the burden of proof be on you to prove that they don`t?

"3b) Anything that I can submit as proof is personal and would not be counted as "proof". Therefore assuming God does exist, there would be no way to "prove" it regardless."

No. Just because the only proof you can offer is personal, doesn`t mean that a real proof is impossible. For example, if the stars were to spontaneously rearrange themselves in the sky to spell out "I am the God of the Bible, worship me or be tortured forever" that would be fairly compelling evidence.

Or indeed, voices from burning bushes, fish and loaves cloning themselves, or any of the other Biblical miracles which were dime a dozen, seemingly daily events back then.

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Female 2,674
Saraneth: Pro choice means the person wants abortions to stay legal for whatever reason. Pro life means they want abortion to be illegal. So yes, I care if people are pro life because they`re trying to make abortions illegal. A few pro choice people might try and tell you that you should abort, but those few people are just nosy people butting into someone elses business and don`t represent the majority of us.. unlike every pro life people who think we should only have one option, to stay pregnant. The harming of women I referred to was making abortions illegal, illegal abortions are unsafe and harm women because people will abort whether or not its legal. It`s great that you kept the baby and I know I will never make the choice of abortion for myself, I could just never get one. However, you and I don`t represent everyone. By the way, pregnancy and child birth does kill many women even if they have a healthy pregnancy, so it is more than just a pain in the ass and it is harmful.
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Male 7,933
i still say no in all cases with the exception of rape or as the IAB chatters say "wincest".
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Male 833
it should be legal at early stages, or in cases of forced pregancies, after that it seems cruel to abort, but it should be the peoples choice.
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Female 767
I`m not here to talk with anyone. I`m not even going to come back to this page.

My opinion: I would rather save a healthy mother while she is still healthy than spend the time/money/healthcare on a baby who (in the cases where abortion should be appropriate - rape, unsafe pregnancy, accidental pregnancy despite protection and poor parents) has a slimmer chance of being healthy. Yes, there is adoption, but one of my friends is adopted and she`s nothing near healthy.

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Female 761
I`m strongly against abortions unless in the case of proven rape. I mean, sex requires responibility like everything else in life and there are consequences for those who do not understand that. To kill a child because it`s not considered viable is just a terse excuse to not want to man (no pun intended at all) up to the mistakes made. The very definition of sex is to procreate--to make babies, so using protection so you will not get pregnant should be the top priority. If you don`t attend to that priority then really, you`re just asking to get pregnant. And yes, I understand condoms break and so forth but that`s just a lot we as a society need to look at. I`m not totally saying we should outlaw abortions I`m just saying that should never even be an option for girls, I think alternative routes should be taken. Too many use that as the first way out and that`s totally wrong. But society preaches something totally different.
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Male 524
Saraneth
It sucks when people do that. It isn`t any better than what the pro life people are doing. Something i`ve always thought about: there`s a pro life license plate, but not a pro choice license plate. It would be really stupid to buy one anyways, you`d pry get baby killer keyed onto your car lol.
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Male 7,933
"Fetuses NEED their mother to eat FOR them."
Fine, a 1 day old baby. Same poo.
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Male 833
I can`t survive without my mother. I need her money for food. So technically I`m not a human being.


Logical fallacies.... i sense them

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Female 1,006
Oh lord. A debate on abortion. Here`s my 2 cents.

-Should it be available as a form of birth control? No.
-Should it be available in cases where the parent(s) is/are in a dire situation and can not afford to have a child, and/or the expense (monetary and/or physical) of pregnancy? Yes
-Should it be available in cases of rape and incest? Yes

I am not "pro-murder" but I do believe that a woman should have the right to decide whether or not she wants to have a child. After all, it`s her uterus.

Accidents happen. Even with all of the birth control and condoms and Plan B available, unplanned pregnancies can happen. And while I think that if you are going to have sex, you should be prepared for the consequences, I don`t think that abortion should be out right banned. There are situations where it might be the only viable option. Better have a doctor do the procedure in a sterile OR than some guy in a back alley with a coat hanger.

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Male 7,933
"Primetime: I have tried searching for your "god proving equation" and i have not found anything"

It was a link on IAB.

Any book thats to be interpreted is going to have contradictions. drat the great gatsby has contradictions.

"talking snakes, 900 year old people, "
Any one ever heard of rhetorical devices for drats sake? And they counted births by moons at that era so 900 is closer to 75.

"the Earth is flat"
Find the part where it says the earth is flat and I`ll show you another where it says its round. The flat poo has been taken completely out of context.


Seriously these points are getting boring. Can someone come up with something creative for once?
Where`s Davy where you need him?

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Male 460
if your dumb enough to unintentionally get pregnant dont take it out on the baby, in my opnion the only acception would be rape victims but that would be way to hard to keep track of
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Female 44
LillianDulci, pro-choice sounds much better when you cut out the middle word: Pro MY choice. I`m so freaking tired of people coming up to me and telling me that I should have an abortion and they don`t support me because I`m wrong. Pregnancy is annoying, yes, but I`m very suprised about how many people are offended by my having a baby. So many "pro-choice" people are NOT pro choice. Their pro what they want me to do, and my choice is wrong. I think if you`re truly pro choice you won`t care what the pro-lifers are doing in a simple debate because, hey, it`s their choice.
And BTW pregnancy is a pain in the ass, but it`s definately NOT harmful to a woman. Especially when said woman can have a simple adoption. Don`t do it if you don`t want the consequences. I was on the pill. Now I`m pregnant. poo happens. However, I made sure I was old enough to be able to handle a baby. *Shrug*
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Female 136
No Prime, you do not NEED your mother for money or food. You COULD live without her, be a street kid and so on. Fetuses NEED their mother to eat FOR them. You do not. It is not the same.
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Female 85
I think that all the graduates would`ve been happier if he had just said, "Congratulations and good luck" and walked off the stage.
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Female 767
Nick: USE YOUR GRAMMAR.

Why you so controversial, IAB? D:

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Male 7,933
"Prime: A fetus is not it`s own entity, until it can survive without it`s host (mother), it is not a human being."

I can`t survive without my mother. I need her money for food. So technically I`m not a human being.


"God is just an image created because people fear for what is beyond life"

The idea between going to heaven or hell is a lot scarier than knowing nothing happens afterward. Has nothing to do with why I believe in God.

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Male 361
Primetime: I have tried searching for your "god proving equation" and i have not found anything. BTW you are trying to defend a religion that bases its beliefs on a 900 year old book written by man. A book with contradictions, talking snakes, 900 year old people, massive events (Moses leading the Jews out of Egypt) with absolutley no archaeological evidence to support it, virgin births, the book askes you to kill gay people, the book basically says the Earth is flat. My favorite thing in the book is one person hearing a voice that they think is god. In modern society that person is called crazy.
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Female 2,674
"unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another.

I think it meets the definition."
Nope, abortion isn`t "unlawful". Also, most definitions include "premeditated malice" or "malice aforethought" which abortion also doesn`t fit into.

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Male 1,265
Lionhart: Pro-murder would actually be like protestors sitting outside pre-natal doctors offices trying to make people have abortions. Although that`d be funny to see I mean it`s jsut as bad as the pro-life people outside aboirtion clinics really.
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Male 833
but dont you see thats the point... we simply dont know whats out there, its just that theres a greater chance its something material.

God is just an image created because people fear for what is beyond life, enough so that so many religions have sprouted up. You yourself are disbelieving in the other religious gods, so how can you be so certain that your book tells the truth and defend it?

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Male 436
Prime: A fetus is not it`s own entity, until it can survive without it`s host (mother), it is not a human being.
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Male 3,431
Ohh and I think LOLPhotoshop should be able to mutilate a corpse as long as it is his own.
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Male 436
Lionhart: How is a fetus a person?
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Male 7,933
"abortion doesn`t meet the definition for murder"

unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another.

I think it meets the definition.

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Female 2,674
@Lionhart2- And "pro life" sounds much nicer than "pro harming women" :P
By the way, abortion doesn`t meet the definition for murder and many people who are Pro CHOICE would never get an abortion or don`t even like that people get abortions, some of us just feel that the country is much better off with legal abortions.
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Male 392
@Darth: I`m not saying hitler was right i`m saying some people think he was.

Murder is NOT ethnic clensing: that`s genocide.
And consciences aren`t around until the child has the ability to decide things for itself.

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Male 3,431
What confuses me is that the majority of people that think abortion is acceptable, oppose the death penalty and most of those who despise abortion, think the death penalty is completely within the realm of societal norm. It seems paradoxical. For my part, I am for both. Kill `em all.
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Female 136
@Darth

Totally out of context, but yeah, No. Abortion WAS allowed until much later, it only changed because there is a conservative Supreme Court. This isn`t a majority decision at all. This is by a select few. At the very least, that is why I am pro-choice. Purely because I haven`t gotten my morality out there as much as you have in the form of the select few.

Whomever wins is the right person. If Hitler had won, murder WOULD be ethnic cleansing, to a point.

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Male 7,933
"good and evil are merely perspective,"
"he is very immoral"

aren`t you a contradiction wrapped in disagreement

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Male 833
good and evil are merely perspective, whos to say your "god" is in fact good? he is very immoral in the past, so how can a supposedly moral god be so immoral? he is simply a figment of what humans think he would be like, which is why he has so many "human" emotions. We live in a material world, not a magical one.
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Male 8,300
Oh I love how it`s phrased "pro choice", I guess it sounds a lot nicer and socially acceptable than "pro-murder"
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Male 7,933
"I insure that I don`t reproduce through the simple act of not drating."

Except corpses right ;)

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Male 7,933
3. "since the burden of support lies first and foremost with those making the positive the claim"

3a)According to John Stuart Mills it lied with those making the opposition to cultural norms.
3b) Anything that I can submit as proof is personal and would not be counted as "proof". Therefore assuming God does exist, there would be no way to "prove" it regardless.

4. Hold someone while they`re dying and don`t tell me there isnt a difference when they`re alive and the second after it dies. You can clearly sense the difference.

5. "Faith is Not a Source of Knowledge"- Neither is an about.com article.

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Female 62
oaky you guys are right. hitler WAS right. and racism ISNT wrong. murder is just ethnic clensing and abortion IS NOT MURDER. BECAUSE CHILDREN JUST FORM CONCIENCES OUT OF THE SKY ON THE THIRD MONTH OF THE PREGNANCY.
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Male 392
I insure that I don`t reproduce through the simple act of not drating.
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Female 2,674
What does a baby crying have to do with abortion? Babies cry all the time.

Anyway, I`m pro choice. To be "pro life" is to want to harm and punish women. You may be saying "Oh nono, I just want to save the little fetuses!". Making abortions illegal doesn`t accomplish that, however. Abortion rates are the same whether or not it`s illegal. It`s not like people will say "Oh, I`m pregnant but it`s illegal to end the pregnancy so I`ll just go about as if I wanted to be pregnant", the majority who would abort if it`s legal will still abort if it`s illegal. Thus, making abortions illegal only accomplishes harming women, no fetus is saved.

Source: http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/journals/...

Pro life (as well as everyone else, to be honest) people should focus on birth control awareness and availability instead of eliminating legal abortions. That`s the only thing tha

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Male 7,933
raber, since i dont have time to go through all of them i`ll go through the first 5.

1. A physics professor at Tulane has an equation that shows God exist.
1a) Their statements are misleading. They are saying there is no empirical evidence to suggest God exist so scientifically he does not exist. With that said there is no empirical evidence that i have thoughts as science can only find wave patterns. So my thoughts don`t exist.

2."is the fact that there is so much evil in the world today."
2a) its not a fact.
2b) Its not evil just the absence of good.
If there was no "evil" there would also be no "good".

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Male 436
WakeToWood: I use condoms, pull-out, and make sure the female is on birth control, however that does not all equal 100% pregnancy prevention. And, seeing as how the child is in the female`s womb and leeching off of her body, it isn`t my choice to kill it. It`s hers, 100%. If she keeps it, my body isn`t effected. If she destroys it, my body isn`t effected.
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Male 833
i think i better vanish now.
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Male 392
"Because no one wants to see lolphotoshop getting at it with the sticks and stones, necrophilia is illegal."

Define `No one`

" and a abortion pill is not the answer."
That`s not how it works...

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Male 436
Some laws are necessary to ensure the survival of the majority of our species.

I`d kill people if I could, I`m not morally opposed to it. However, it`s against the law.

Laws do not equal morals.

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Male 833
@dathtater you probably wont read it but yeah the bible isn`t true sorry
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Male 206
Hey Sajo how about being pro condom? As regards to this statement"I`m pro-choice, but then again my opinion is irrelevant as I will NEVER have the ability to carry a child."as a "male"? you can be part of creating a child, and a abortion pill is not the answer.
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Male 7,933
sajo, your sort of almost proving my point.

Because murder and racism is viewed as wrong by most people, it is against the law.

Because no one wants to see lolphotoshop getting at it with the sticks and stones, necrophilia is illegal.

yada yada yada

laws and morality aren`t separate.

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Male 436
"haha but racism and murder is still wrong. that has nothing to do with ANYTHING dude."

That is your opinion, they can`t be "proven" wrong. To you, they might be wrong, to the person committing such acts, they are right.

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Male 436
Prime: Not everyone abides every law, they do what they think is right themselves at any given moment.

It`s as they say, you`ll do something "against the law" if you are 100% sure you wont get caught.

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Female 136
@darthtater

Hitler thought he was a good, moral Christian.

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Male 392
@Darth: According to /YOU/ Murder and Racism is still wrong.
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Female 62
haha but racism and murder is still wrong. that has nothing to do with ANYTHING dude.
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Male 392
@primetime: Therefore Laws=Subjective?
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Male 7,933
"since a fetus it not technically alive because its brain does not function like a living being"

Neither do teenagers at a mall

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Male 7,933
"our country is based on laws and equality not morals, "

Once again, why can`t people like lolphotoshop mutilate corpses?

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Male 361
I don`t like abortion but at the same time I think that in America the land of the free and opportunity it should be a choice since a fetus it not technically alive because its brain does not function like a living being. I am not trying to debate I am giving my opinion whether you agree or disagree.
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Female 32
our country is based on laws and equality not morals, when you bring in morals religion gets mixed uo inthere. also u said that a child is a child no matter if it was concieved an hour earlier, but by definition at that point it is a parasite.
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Male 7,933
Sajo: laws reflect morality
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Male 436
darthtater: Morality is subjective.
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Male 7,933
well here is where the fun part is.

Roe v. Wade.- Abortion is allowed
Peterson v. California- fetus are alive
Law- Murder is wrong.

This leaves an interesting little paradox

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Male 392
@darthtater: Well, obviously not, seeing as we still have murderers and racists in the world, don`t we?
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Male 436
"I vote pro-choice, but I`ll be very glad when the "morning after pill" is more widely used instead.
Abortion is a nasty, awful business. I doubt anyone here could witness a mid- to late-term abortion without throwing up, at the very least."

I`ve seen it, and I`ve seen worse. Far, far worse.

I`m pro-choice, but then again my opinion is irrelevant as I will NEVER have the ability to carry a child.

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Female 62
olive123: morality is i giant part in ourselves, our world, and our country. murder is wrong. Racism is wrong. those seem to be pretty moral issues.
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Female 271
pro-choice ftw
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Male 392
"They both could be argued the same way."

I`m pro-choice as far as corpse mutilation goes, too...


;D

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Female 32
if all of your arguments about a political issue are based on morals, then you dont have a very good foothold in the argument now do you?
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Male 7,933
"@primetime: You cannot compare an abortion to mutilating a corpse, they are completely different "

They both could be argued the same way.

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Male 392
That`s just the thing: People seem to think that being Pro-Choice means giving an abortion to every drating pregnant woman out there. But it means you believe that you should have a choice, and people are talking about the bible and God and other things that you have a /choice/ on and saying that the bible hints at the fact that abortions are wrong.
and if that`s the truth then so be it.
it`s me who`ll be rotting in hell, not you.
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Female 62
well correction: i see your side. i will se it more clearly.
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Female 32
@primetime: You cannot compare an abortion to mutilating a corpse, they are completely different
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Female 62
i didn`t. i quoted the bible on moral beliefs. So if you do not believe in the bible, and therefore do not beilieve in Christ, than you can ignor the last part. Therefore Mr. LOLPHOTOSHOP, ignor the Christian part, but please acknowledge the moral element.


ps- when you can PROVE to me that the bible is incorrect i will see your side.

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Male 7,933
"if you dont want one, dont get one"

I`m tired of hearing that. Its like saying well if you dont want to mutilate any corpse then don`t do it

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Male 392
@primetime: she was talking about consciences and... yeah...
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Male 180
well my opinion, the whole american idea of freedom should allow you to get an abortion if you choose. but personally i don`t agree with getting an abortion, but that still doesnt mean that people shouldnt have the right to.
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Female 32
i think abortion should be a choice, like many people have said, if you dont want one, dont get one. it should not be used as a form of birth control, but should be an option to anyone who thinks they do not hav the resources to take care of a child. also someone with aids could want an abortion, knowing that their baby might not live long anyway. and how could bringing even more unwanted/ impoverished babies into the world help the economy? the public childcare system would go straight down the toilet. therefore i think it is wrong to outlaw abortion, it should be a choice.
Daarthtater: please do not make a biblical quote when arguing politics, we do have a seperation of church and state, which i would like you to respect.
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Female 136
Now here`s a thought, how much would regular birth control (the pill, injections, etc) effect a growing baby? Heck, what about Plan B early enough, but still after the "optimum" time? Assuming you used enough of it.
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Male 7,933
"@darthtater: Because the Bible contains proven scientific facts."

Because this is a science question?

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Female 102
I`m Pro-Choice as it is a woman`s body and she can do with what she wants with it. However, I would never, ever have an abortion myself. I would be a mess and would never recover. But, pro-Choice all of the way.
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Male 392
@darth: Then I recommend not quoting the bible as a source of scientific facts
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Female 62
sarcasm? im not trying to argue.
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Female 209
my thing on abortion is that i`m neither pro life or choice. but i do not think abortion should be illegal. think about it... do you really think if it`s made illegal women would stop having them? no. they would do them themselves which is incredibly dangerous and harmful to not only the child, but the mother as well. I would much rather know that a women is getting the procedure done in a safe, sterile, and professional environment than in her own batheroom with a clothes hanger in hand.
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Male 820
*runs in with 50 fire extinguishers and hands them to Opie."
Here you go, and if the fire department come by, you didn`t get these from me...,
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Male 392
@darthtater: Because the Bible contains proven scientific facts.
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Male 949
"Yes, every child should be aborted."
This.
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Male 392
Edit:I`m Pro-choice.
If you think abortion is wrong, don`t get one.
Simple as that.
I wouldn`t ever consider having my wife/girlfriend/sister/cousin/your mother get an abortion, but that doesn`t mean that some people (Rape Victims, 13 year old mothers, people with aids) shouldn`t be able to.

As long as it`s not used as a form of birth control, it`s fine.

Also: I`ve had to live 16 years knowing that I had a potential little brother who was aborted and that I`m a failed abortion, much love <3

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Female 62
A child is a child.....no matter what. No matter if it has been conceived an hour earlier or three months earlier. Therefore my answer is that abortion is wrong. Period.

Dextrine: In response to that, A persons concience is always there.


Listen to me, O house of Jacob, all you who remain of the house of Israel, you whom I have upheld since you were conceived, and have carried since your birth. Even to your old age and gray hairs I am he, I am he who will sustain you. I have made you and I will carry you; I will sustain you and I will rescue you (Isaiah 46:3-4).

Yet you brought me out of the womb; you made me trust in you even at my mother`s breast. From birth I was cast upon you; from my mother`s womb you have been my God (Psalm 22:9-10).

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Male 1,265
Yes, every child should be aborted
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Male 1,399
I agree with caboose, if caboose is first on the list.
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Male 1,011
Sure, but remove the ovaries as well.

Many people use abortion as birth control.

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Male 686
I do not support abortion, but I`m pro choice because its not my business to impose my beliefs on others. If they want an abortion... who am I to stop them?
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Male 1,204
Here are my terms for abortion.
Either we don`t have it, or we take off the age cap for abortion. I know plenty of people who deserve to be aborted. That`s the only fair way in my opinion. If you don`t think an embryo has a conscience, I don`t say adults do either. All you`re relaly doing is releasing certain neurotransmitters into the synaptic cleft, can you really call that feelings? no they`re not at all.

actually, let`s have no age cap for abortion. let`s just abort all the annoying people, that`d be way better.

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Male 392
It`s none of my business what someone else does. If they want to have their child, fair enough. Have it based on their views again fair enough. They want to abort it, that`s fine too.
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Female 15,763
Someone get the buckets of water, I`ve got the fire extinguisher...

I think I`m ready for the flame war.

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Male 263
Yes
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Male 1,399
I vote pro-choice, but I`ll be very glad when the "morning after pill" is more widely used instead.

Abortion is a nasty, awful business. I doubt anyone here could witness a mid- to late-term abortion without throwing up, at the very least.

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Male 7,933
"OF COURSE, it came from FOX."

Ad hominem

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Male 275
oh, and no if its already very developed, early on is ok with me unser the right circumstances
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Male 483
If you want it, why not. It is a physical parasite until it forms a conscience, then it`s a physical parasite with a conscience.
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Male 833
yes if its early, no if its late.
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Male 20,908
Link: Baby Cries During Obama`s Abortion Speech [Rate Link] - Crying baby bums Obama out during Notre Dame commencement speech. So today`s I-A-B question: Abortion, yes or no?
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