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If this bulls#it suit passes, there`s gonna be a lot of bodies laying out in the sun on the border. No one is gonna let an illegal immigrant off their property alive and there`s a lot of places to hide a corpse on 22,000 acres.
If someone came in the back door to your house and you had to drive them out by pointing a gun at them, then they attempted to sue you for threatening them, they`d be wrong and your legal system would be officially [email protected] if it sided with the trespassers.
As far as the incredible amount of straw man arguments in here; give me a break.
You know how many other countries put up with this level of illegal immigration?
Anybody want to guess the number of countries that allow 12+ million (a conservative estimate) illegal aliens to enter and work illegally?
Like I said in an earlier post, it was nothing more than a disagreement between two strong personalities.
The_Maddog: take it esay. did take personal.
Am Mexican BTW
BUT, we do have one of the world`s more lenient immigration policies. Here in the agricultural midwest, there are more farm and ranch jobs than can be filled... and the majority of people who fill those jobs are Mexican migrant workers who come here and work LEGALLY.
So I scoff at those who jump the border in the dead of night. All they need to do is apply for a work visa, and the state of Minnesota will welcome them and they`ll have NO problem finding work... in many cases, all they have to do is show up at a farm, say they want a job, and show their paperwork. The majority of small towns even have housing available just for the migrant workers.
No illegal border crossing, trespassing and skulking in the dead of night necessary.
No.. seriously... Trust me dude, you`re very much wrong.
VegasCartman: Ever travel to any Asian countries? I have... over a dozen to be exact.
No, that would be "over a dozen to be vague". And yes, of course I have - several - so what? Ex-pat life and tourism is great, aint it, when you have a passport and skillset that is respected and in-demand around the world.
Anyway, let`s get one thing straight... the US is not, simply not, the kindest place on the planet when it comes to immigration... you may want to think it is, but it is not.
Would this rancher exist and be tolerated if it were?
You are on a power trip, and looking for an excuse to flex your "mod muscles".
Do your worst.
I say yet again, I am not in the least bit intimidated by you, and I daresay you are beginning to sound like a petulant child.
I have done NOTHING wrong here. Although it seems that not agreeing with you is a mortal sin, and subject to "punishment".
You, on the other hand are starting to come across as a bit unstable.
No one is more aware than me of the consequences of such actions, and yes, I have to live with the fact that I have had to do so.
To say that someone does not value human life because they are capable of killing if necessary is ludicrous.
The VAST majority of human beings are capable of, and will kill to save their own life.
To believe otherwise is foolish.
And Maddog... all you`re doing now is threatening some sort of action against me because of some perceived insult.
Do whatever you think you need to do.
Ban me if you want.
I say again, I will NOT be intimidated by your status as a mod.
Cutting across my property is not going to garner any response from me at all.
Damaging my property and doing anything that could be construed as threatening my safety WILL garner an appropriate response.
Said response could be anything from my telling you to to leave, to physical intervention and removal IF NECESSARY.
I have a houseful of little kids right next door to me, subsequently balls, frisbees, and toys sometimes inadvertently come over the fence.
All the kids next door know that they are more than welcome to enter my yard to retrieve their belongings if necessary, and understand that it is not safe to enter the yard if the dogs are outside unattended. If that`s the case they know to ring the front doorbell and tell me that a ball, or whatever has come over the fence, and will I get it for them.
This isnt about power trips. This isnt about differing opinions. It`s, about your inability to play nicely with the rest of the crowd.I dont expect you to agree with me any more than I have to agree with you! I really couldnt care less what you belive. I have every right to state my opinion and you vice versa!
Consider this your final warning on the matter! State your opinions all you want but drop the insults!
What are you gonna do?
Ban me because I don`t agree with your high-handed, holier than thou attitude?
Go ahead and ban me if that`s what you need to do to make yourself feel better Napoleon.
You`re on a friggin` power trip, and I won`t be intimidated by the likes of you.
WRONG! Illegal immigration is rife in western european countries! to claim Americas situation is worse than Europes is ludicrous!
I`ve probably traveled to more places in the world than you`ve ever even heard of. Trust me dude, you`re very much wrong. While it`s true that border hopping in Europe is common, they don`t have an immigration problem the way we do. Illegal immigration is sucking the system dry here in the U.S. Ever go to an Emergency room in a hospital? You`d be shocked to see what you see. Regarding Euro countries, even many of them are now cracking down on immigration because they realize the blight that illegal immigration causes. Just look at the UK for example. Ever travel to any Asian countries? I have...over a dozen to be exact. Most of them have illegal immigration laws you could never even dream of. How about YOU do a little traveling for a
Yes I have had dealings with illegals in the UK. Sure, they may by diffrent illegals but after I had to listen to a woman beg me for help to stay in my country because her children would die if she was deported was harsh wake up call for me. It`s no fun watching the police carting off another human who wants a little compasion and help!
Your attitude is completely otherwise that these people are a threat to your life!So..this is your last warning. I dont share your view point and I havnt been insulting and I`ve only commented on things you yourself have said!
The lines drawn here. just because you dont agree with someones dosnt mean you have to be rude!
"Last February, I spent a week there helping clean up trash left by illegal immigrants, and assisted in demolishing two maintenance sheds that they were using to sleep in... after they stripped it of everything of value, and urinated and defecated anywhere they pleased. My Border Patrol friends have their share of "war stories" of being attacked by illegals they are attempting to apprehend.">>
Now you really are pushing the wrong button, and further insults wont be tollerated!
YOU and made the comments that de-vauled human life, not I. I`ll say this one time only because you obviously are not taking in what I`m saying.This, as far as your comments go, went from illegals crossing a 22`000 acre farm to people breaking into your home, 2 seperate things. Your first comments where not about breaking into someones home but about the article which IS about illegals crossing a 22`000 acre farm. I never stated once that it was wrong to use deadly force to protect your home but there is, as I said, a big diffrence between crossing someones yard and kicking down their door!
There really isnt a great deal of difference... there really isnt. And neither should ever, under any circumstances, be punishable by death! That`s just mental.
And as for: Most other places would shoot you on sight and throw you in a ditch without a worry or concern in the world. Only in America do criminals have a right to sue for being a criminal and some of you numbskulls on here think we`re still being hard on them.
Have you been to Europe? I can walk from Spain to Greece without being asked for a passport, let alone being deported, no stunt... just the way it is... you need to at least read about the world or better still, go experience it or something.
This is a LOT more than a trespassing issue, this is about entering a foreign nation illegally. I love it how everyone is so quick to condemn a few people in the U.S. for protecting it`s borders when we are one of the most forgiving and open countries in the world regarding illegal immigrants. Go try that stunt in most other parts of the world and you`d be lucky if all you got was deported. Most other places would shoot you on sight and throw you in a ditch without a worry or concern in the world. Only in America do criminals have a right to sue for being a criminal and some of you numbskulls on here think we`re still being hard on them. Meh.
To continue to imply that I do not value human life is as insulting to me as you can get.
I have taken human life in the service of my country many times over the last 20 years.
I remember each and every individual I watched fall through my gunsight.
Having taken many lives, I have a better perspective on the value of human life than most.
Yes, we will agree to disagree.
The fact that I am willing to use deadly force if necessary to protect my family, home, and property does NOT mean that I do not value human life.
At the risk of further angering you, I have to say you are an ass for continuing to imply something that you have no proof of.
How dare you.
You are apparently a christian country... is this the christian thing to do?
I appreciate that some US Americans feel aggrieved that they may have a bad name internationally but, seriously, some of you are asking for it.
Devi, and no doubt from the reaction of the likes of LazyMe and Maddog some others if I bothered to read all 5 pages of comment, should hang their collective heads in shame... you do not know the value of a human life and really do not know the value of a piece of land in comparison to it. Thankfully you are young. Heaven forbid an offspring of yours should stumble (or otherwise) into someone else`s land and receive the just penalty of death.
And Garuness... what the f*** you talking about? Sort yourself out.
See the only mistake the rancher made was not killing them. Dead Mexicans can`t sue. They were on his land, illegally, he did nothing to break the law.
I think the farmer should sue the border patrol.
The question that I would like answered is why it was left up to an angry farmer to defend the American boarder? The article makes it clear that his land is a well-known `highway` for illegal immigrants, so why not spend a bit of extra money on posting more boarder patrol to properly protect his land, as well as the immigrants legal rights? Things like that should not be left up to an angry citizen.
I feel bad for the immigrants - they must have it pretty awful to want to leave their country, family, friends etc and risk getting caught. But suing? Please! They have every right to be treated humanely which is another reason that the area needs to be properly policed, rather than the law enforcement relying on a man with a gun and a grudge.
Poor show all round!
I see this as a total failure of the border patrol, Especially in light of the fact that they are harassing ordinary citizens with illegal searches and then beating and tazering those that stand their ground with the 4th amendment of the constitution.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nONjlZ8YM... (down below..)
Illegal immigration is two-sided just like any other issue. If you come here to work hard and make a future for yourself and your family, then I`m all for it. If you`re here to exploit and do illegal things, then get out.
Sure, they are doing the wrong thing by trying to enter a country illegally but that certainly doesnt give him the right to hold them at gunpoint as hostages. He isn`t the police or government, just some fat old fogey on his high horse.
God! Sell the farm and move somewhere else if its that bad! The illegal aliens are ALWAYS going to come... deal with it without losing your cool.
See..now I`m I`m annoyed. You`ve become insulting. Everything I`ve wrote is there for you to read. I`ve made my point and I never disagreed there is a problem with illegals. I just pointed out there are two sides to the story and that perhaps just some of these people are desperate. Dont forget, as I orignally said, just because your crossing someones land, it dosnt mean your stealing from it! Trepassing isnt theft!
You on the other hand think that brute force and intimidation is the obvious answer. Lets be honest, no matter what your original statment of "accident" implied, you have just said you`d happily shoot a fleeing immigrant in the rear with rock salt. Fair enough if they`ve robbed your home..but your orignal statement and point of view was that they where just "illegals". I dread to think what you do to kids who wander into your yard!
So..I`d suggest you let this one go. Agree to disagree if you want!
Its almost funny to see how some of you so blatantly hold no value to human life. Some people would call it tragic, but I`m used to it... its merely the product of a bad educational system, distrust, an economic crisis and nothing short of pure concentrated selfishness. Luckily this applies only to the lower half.
But it also says the consitution does not follow the flag so the citizen part is somewhat important
I am stating that I would use all the force necessary to protect my family, home, and property, and to deter those individuals from returning.
If they return, then I will increase the level of force necessary to ensure that they do not try again.
I said "accidents happen". You tried to imply that I was talking about cold-blooded murder.
An "accident" could be something as simple as a shotgun load of rock salt into fleeing illegal immigrant buttcheeks.
But thank you for implying that I do not value human life.
What exactly are you being here? A troll in Mod`s clothing?
Between you and IkeRay, I`m hearing a LOT of ridiculous BS today.
PinkAndGreen- wow my bad. that is crazy.
i should go run around someones property and bring a mob to their house till they get pissed. then sue them to get money 2 pay for college xd
"This happened to Roger Barnett, an Arizona rancher. He detained the group at gunpoint for his own safety and called the U.S. Border Patrol.
As a gesture of gratitude, the jury ordered him to pay the illegal aliens $77,800 in damages.
This has to be one of the most idiotic cases ever tried in an American court. It makes a complete mockery of the judicial system, punishing a man who made a citizen`s arrest and contacted the proper authorities.
And Barnett was, indeed, punished.
Of the $77,800 he was forced to pay, $60,000 of it was for punitive damages. Punitive damages are charged to punish a defendant for wrongdoing in a civil court case."
It makes me wonder--if Barnett were Mexican, and the illegal immigrants were white, would this have even made it court?
speedy, whatever you say.
completely different situation in that case, unfortunately being a common illegal immigrant shouldnt give them this kind of leeway with the law
Go around the perimeter and not every acre."
That`s over 200,000 feet (roughly 40 miles) of fencing. Figure 5 dollars a foot, and you`re talking a million dollars easy.
That`s so messed up. He didn`t shoot anyone, he didn`t hurt anyone. He detained them until the police got there. With a shot gun. So what. Drug smugglers that go onto his property are probably armed themselves, so it is resonable to say that he feared for his safety.
So, now that illegals weren`t shipped back to Mexico, and were given thousands of dollars, when a citizen was doing things that were completely IN HIS RIGHTS, I can GUARANTEE that more illegals are going to copy them, and start suing Americans.
Seriously, America is messed up.
Ok, being serious. They can`t expect to be in someone else`s property without permission and not expect to get in trouble. If they win this, I`m gonna be pissed.
drating illegals. Seriously. They piss me right the drat off.
I never disagreed that it was wrong to defend your home and property, in fact I would expect no less from anyone. The world is full of scum that need dealing with and I say that from personal experiance...but not everyone that commits a "crime" is scum are they?I agreed that that illegals are a problem, but I`m certainly not the one considering "arranging accidents" en mass for those who dont stick to "their side" of the fence! Well there is a big frigging diffrence between someone crossing your property just try to try to earn money for something to eat to someone breaking into your house, stealing your DVD and raping your cat! Your proposal to solve both problems (joke or not) was murder!
Dont play the "holier than thou" card if you`
Am I the only one that can`t help hearing "My dog is hungry and he`s hungry for buttocks" in Forrest Gump`s voice?
Actually I think you won the border war; you DO remember that parts of Southern US were Mexican territory in the first place?
You`re assuming any of us have any faith whatsoever in the law in the first place.
He really thinks he is john wayne.
Also if somebody wants to come in and steal my xbox and poop in my living room, i`d be upset, but that isn`t any reason to shoot somebody.
Actually, the Constitution says "We the people of the United States..."
Clearly, illegal immigrants are not `of the United States.`
Anyway, the preamble has nothing to do with who the laws of the United States pertain to. That`s just dumb to think that it does.
Go around the perimeter and not every acre.
I have some friends who work for the U.S. Border Patrol, and my fiancee`s family owns 180 acres on the Arizona/Mexico border.
Last February, I spent a week there helping clean up trash left by illegal immigrants, and assisted in demolishing two maintenance sheds that they were using to sleep in... after they stripped it of everything of value, and urinated and defecated anywhere they pleased.
My Border Patrol friends have their share of "war stories" of being attacked by illegals they are attempting to apprehend.
There is NOTHING "low" about defending your family, home and property.
I will defend my family, home and property with the maximum force the law allows... Including deadly force if the situation warrants it.
You can be as pompous as you wish, but I daresay if it was YOUR family and property involved you`d see things differently.
It`s easy to be high-handed from a few thousand miles a
Having said that, This guy should not be violating state laws concerning "Citizens Arrest". Once arrested, They must be treated humanely and not abused.
The border patrol has agents abusing US citizens rights, Like the baptist preacher, But they can`t patrol this area regularly ? Something is way out of wack here.
And how do you suppose he would pay for electric fence surrounding a 22,000 acre plot?
They claim their civil rights were violated by being held captive at gunpoint and "terrorized" for lack for lack of a better term.
I`d need to know more about the provisions in that state for citizen`s arrests. Usually you`re permitted to detain someone until the authorities get there, and that seems to be what he did.
Sure they have allegations that he kicked one of them, and maybe frightened them, and maybe that does deserve to go before a jury. Let`s let 12 citizens decide.
I don`t know why you`d lose faith in the law if he`s convicted by 12 of his peers.
I`d just like to add, the idea that civil rights should be extended to non-citizens is not a new one. It`s also an important concept because we don`t want illegal immigrants being abused, enslaved, etc. by anyone.
I sure hope that the judge is going to rule fairly in this one. If we get a clone of the judge that ruled in favor of the lady who spilled McDonald`s coffee on her lap, a very dangerous precedent will be set.
Dumb moment of the day:D
Many in other countries who would _never_ allow illegal immigration to this extent like to tell us:
"Do as we say, not as we do."
Hypocrites, all of you.
They go to another country, with NO legal rights (yeah, I said it, NONE) because they are illegal. Human rights is not the same as legal rights.And then they sue because the owner of the land wants to shoot them? WTF? If you trespass in a ranch in Mexico, prepare to get shot. Seriously.
This is why people think all Mexicans are ignorant idiots with no culture whatsoever. We are not, but damn, some idiots like those really f*ck the rest of us up.
Legal inmigrants, on the other hand, have rights because they have done as the law says. It`s different.
@Vindictive"And for the record, they`re not idiots because they`re immigrants. They`re idiots because... they`re idiots. There`s nothing more to say."
Indeed. I could not have said it better.
screw political correctness, if pablo is carrying isabella and his kid esteban and has the brilliant idea of breaking into this guys ranch then it sucks for him but he lost the big game of "getting here illegally and not getting caught" and deserves to be tossed back, threatened etc.
this makes me feel bad for all of the people worldwide who are sitting patiently waiting for their documents to process so they can come in leggaly. they are often forgotten victims of illegal immigration.
Your logic is flawless! Internet win.
If you really want to do something about illegal immigration, maybe you should stop voting for these jackass politicians that do absolutely nothing about it, and our gov`t that seemingly doesn`t believe that this is a problem. And then do something about the farmers that hire them, do something about the gov`t handouts.
If you want them gone, don`t give them motivation to come across the border illegally.
Internet, I would like to you remind you:
Thank you for your time.
And for the record, they`re not idiots because they`re immigrants. They`re idiots because...they`re idiots. There`s nothing more to say.
I hope they aren`t too tired ;)
also, "but in all seriousness, if an illegal alien can sue an american citizen and win, then our world is definitely going to poo. "no offense... but how stupid are you? theyre people too.
america is based on immigration. the food especially crops that you eat would cost you so much more if those people would be 3 times as high if plantation owners paid their workers more. do any of you want to work sweating your ass off for 5 bucks an hour? i think not.
On the other hand I think far to many Americans are de humanising the issue. If these people are desperate enough to cross the border in the first place, it obviously means all other options have been exhausted. I know if I was desperate, I`d do anything to find work to feed my family. I know this wont allways be the case but some people are obviously desperate.
Osirisascend your response to dealing with the issue is is as low as it gets. A firm hand and an escort back other the border is all you can do at the moment. Arranging accidents...sick man..sick!
but in all seriousness, if an illegal alien can sue an american citizen and win, then our world is definitely going to poo.
"Oh god I feel terrible for laughing but you can just imagine the Count at the ranch, and he counts each person as they run by.14! 15! 16! 16 Illegal Immigrants! Ah ah ah!"
Have my internet, sir. You sorely deserve it.
This pretty much sums it up. I was all ready to go in and defend the immigrants and thought he was being racist...but no, he has a right to defend his home and protect his family. They were doing damage to his property and he has a right to protect himself and his family by any means necessary.
Kudos to Mr. Barnett for taking a stand!
And once this farce of a "civil lawsuit" is over, I hope that the State Department expedites the deportation of these illegals.
If they`re here illegally, then they are in violation of Federal law, NOT U.S. citizens, and shouldn`t be crying about how their "civil rights" have been violated.
What gives THEM the right to trespass on his land?
Personally, I`d set my dogs on them, and fire a few rounds over their heads as they fled to discourage them coming back.
And if they DID come back... well... "accidents" happen.
If you want to live here and work, I welcome you to do so. But go through the proper channels and apply for resident alien status like the thousands who do so legally every year.
oh god that made me laugh hard xD
14! 15! 16! 16 Illegal Immigrants! Ah ah ah!
I think I`d put up a big sign stating in English and Spanish, "Land is mined", please watch your step.
but if its as bad as they say, then i guess he had to do summin
Those Mexicans are crossing illegally, but the rancher did point a gun at them. A gun of all things... Hmmm. Why would Mexicans want to move INTO the US? I suppose its less of a hole then where they came from... Unless they`re moving further north. But human rights violations? I donno...
OK. I hope the Mexicans win, but also that they`ll then be deported back to Mexico.
Quote of the year. =P