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But anyways, I`m going to say what I always say : religion is bullpoo. I`m not going to argue on if god exists or not because I`m an agnostic. But still, the THOUGHT of religion, any religion makes me sick.
to be fair, i know that not all christians are such ignorant morons and that the video only represents a small sample of the worst of them (namely, the ones on the internet). forums?! that is the worst measure of actual public opinion you can get. this should instead be a video on the insanity of internet commenters.
Say I am a millionaire, and I know how to invest money extremely well. My wealth I know for a fact will grow by 25% of the total every year. I have no cash.
I live in a country where everyone is dying of starvation. Year after year millions die. The more money I give them, the more I can save.
Emotional benevolence: Give them all your money. Now. Unemotional benevolence: Give them not a penny, and invest that penny. Every year, until your death, you can gather a greater amount of money, and when you die, give it all away.
This provides a mathematically ideal form of charity, whilst seeming cruel. It isn`t quite cruel, it is unemotional.
I don`t think anyone can know what God is in its entirety.
I classify myself as an Agnostic Sunni Muslim, and I think that is actually closer to the intent of the religion than many others propose.
"You can`t know God" is not supposed to mean just shut off your brain and follow blindly. It means try to understand, but accept that the goal is probably never within reach. Either because you cannot prove every point, or because you`re likely to make mistakes along the way.
I currently expect God to probably be:Creator, Sentient, Non-Anthropomorphic, Eternal, Benevolent(no omni), but possibly Unemotional.
Loosely Omnipotent, but I think that term is generally misunderstood. If he is the divisor of rules, or if he can create energy (or matter), I would suggest that could be classified as omnipotence.
Bhuddists don`t believe in a supernatural being. (Yet religion)People who believe in ghosts do. (Yet not).
Jimbob: GTG to work but will respond later.
Oh and as an aside, I used to know the guy who started FSTDT before he died.
To try and make more sense of that: like this video shows, there are people who believe in God who have their heads up their asses. I like to point and laugh at those people. There are other people who also believe in God who are faced with two choices; they can either take offense, and create a strawman argument that I am somehow laughing at the whack jobs BECAUSE THEY BELIEVE IN GOD, or they can laugh at the whack jobs with me.
It`s the people who think that the first choice is better than the second choice, who get my goat. They believe it is better because then they are *somehow* showing solidarity in their belief in God, rather than accept one of their own is nuts.
I guess to a degree I would personally perceive you as a philosopher as opposed to a religious follower as you don`t seem to limit yourself to any particular belief system (but I don`t want to get in to an argument over semantics).
However, I am curious as to what other properties you believe God does or could posses. I personally find it difficult to logically justify an argument for a God beyond `creator` which does not stumble over some sort of moral realm.
But not until I`ve taken some of you fu*kers with me!
Hi. I`m jacobtrue13. That was a little piece I wrote back in the 70s. I think you`ll agree it timeless.
Lets go have gay sex. drat you mike.
2) I`m an agnostic theist. I hold that god has several properties beyond being just a creator, but my interpretation of God is still somewhat malleable. I don`t think we can fully interpret God, but I don`t think that means we shouldn`t try.
3) "Would you agree that the possibility of an infinite universe is more likely than an infinite God that created an infinite or finite universe?"
I disagree here I think, but I`m not sure what you mean by an infinite God. As I`m open to several interpretations of God, one of the possibilities remains that God is actually quite simple, even if infinite in some sense (Timelessness for example is fine by me).
I find various types of God unlikely. Anthropomorphic Gods in particular I find unlikely.
NO ONE HAS EVER SAID THIS
Would you agree that morality stemmed from an evolutionary benefit of behaving altruistically?
Also, do you see your God simply as `the creator` or does he/she hold other qualities?
Would you agree that the possibility of an infinite universe is more likely than an infinite God that created an infinite or finite universe? (I`m not necessarily following the Ochams razor logic here)
I can`t see anyone taking that seriously on any level...
I see where you are coming from, and as I already stated to Sprinkz, I don`t find Weak Atheism as deserving of the religion label, but I still think it applies.
There are several issues in play here:What changes via the definition? If I call it a religion, what happens to you? What changes about your worldview? Is it less logical? Is it less correct? Why?
Furthermore, could I have a general belief in Christ, but not follow any given church? Does that mean I`m not a follower of any religion? Am I suddenly superior? Inferior?
I`m not "insulting" Atheism by suggesting it`s a religion. I am a member of a religion, so I obviously don`t think religion is a negative thing. I would not have a lesser opinion of Atheism irrespective of its grouping in the dictionary.
The problem I think is the prejudice against religion, that makes you recoil at calling it a religion.
I suppose so... even if I didn`t, I think that most people do is a sign that humans have at the very least evolved to do so.
"do you think that if no holy scriptures were to have ever existed and the only ever teachings were atheistic (obviously hypothetical) the people would even consider a God as being a creator?"
Again, I think the answer is self evident... people have had religion and gods of some form for a long long time, irrespective of if you believe them or not.
I think you`re asking more along the lines of... would anyone believe if nobody ever talked about it, thought of it and expressed it to a caveman friend, etc.
Personally, I think that the two "best" options on the table are: Religion is divine. Religion evolved. Either case suggests humans would come up with a belief in god at some point.
Agreed. You like CSI, Die Hard And video games? Be still my beating heart.. Lolz.
Jerm: I`m telling you, our babies would be epic. XD
h0ax: You`re adorable, you really are, but you`re going to have to try just a touch harder to troll. Better-than-thou hauteur is lamer than Crazy Frog.
*hugs tazman321 in the spirit of the IAB community, despite radically different religious views, because, dammit, he likes the guy*
The central idea of biological evolution is that all life on Earth shares a common ancestor, just as you and your cousins share a common grandmother.
Through the process of descent with modification, the common ancestor of life on Earth gave rise to the fantastic diversity that we see documented in the fossil record and around us today. Evolution means that we`re all distant cousins: humans and oak trees, hummingbirds and whales.
Being the devil`s advocate is a truly enjoyable experience. Hurray for intelligent discussion in the face of seemingly insurmountable stubborness. Some people like to argue.. We like to have discussions.
You want to feel worthless, you go right ahead. Have fun with that.
You want to feel like I`m angry with you and picking on you, you`re welcome to it.
The truth of the matter is that I enjoy playing devil`s advocate. It`s a terrible fault of mine, but that doesn`t stop me from playing. I`m not angry with you, I just ask that you stop being childish.
But don`t worry, I`m not holding my breath.
Also, it`s not the expressing of your views that caught my interest. It`s your demands that everyone validate your own (even while they fluctuate wildly to appease the latest reasonable-sounding poster) while discounting those that aren`t covered in sugar.
Just because it makes you angry doesn`t mean it`s wrong. Just because someone else makes sense doesn`t mean you`re wrong.
It`s completely possible for two people of differing opinions to be right. It`s also completely possible for two people of differing opinions to be wrong.
OK, here you go: fruit flies evolving in a lab to survive in normally lethally low levels of oxygen.
From that article: "But it serves one more example (among mountains of others) of evolution being witnessed and directed under laboratory conditions."
This is what`s wrong with people in general. We are so quick to take offense that we don`t notice when we offer it to others. Frankly, I`m sick of the belief that one side (atheists, Christians, Mormons, Muslims, etc) is better than the others.
We all suck, but we just want others to admit it (though the thought to do the same never crosses our minds).
i never pretended not to make stereotypes. i just try to avoid them whenever possible, as do most christians. and, now that i think about it, the sandwich thing was stupid. i was just thinking about turkey. back on topic, i apologize if what i said made me come off as what you described. that wasnt my intent. i just suck at explaining things in the way i intend to. in conclusion, i stereotype. everyone does. i just ignore my stereotypes.
Two things. One, good luck with that apology.
Two, your example is flawed. While the latter (the atheist) was indeed a stereotype, the former (the sandwich) was more of a statistic.
Going along that line, I must protest your claim. EVERYONE makes derogatory stereotypes. Yes, even the Pope. It`s human nature. There is no denying it--atheist OR Christian. It`s easy to hide your head in the sand and whine that, "No, NO! Christians are nothing but nice and sweet and kind people!" it takes true strength of character to admit flaws.
Honestly, I`d respect someone more if they ADMITTED they had stereotypes, but chose to look past them than the ones that like to pretend they`ve never had a cross thought in their life.
to quote the immortal Trent Reznor, "Your God is dead, and no one cares."
in case youre a little slow, its YOU!
OF COURSE YOU STEREOTYPE! The minute you believe that I am different than you because I don`t believe in the existence of God and Jesus, his only Son, you have begun to paint a picture in your head about me, and it will be based on what you THINK a non-believer is like. and what you THINK is what others have TOLD YOU to think about what a non-believer is like.
Gross generalizations about how a group of people can be expected to behave in certain situations IS STEREOTYPING.
Also, it seems that those Christians-again the real fundies, not the open minded guys...the liberally open minded who can change their opinions if they listen...willing to- understand nothing about psychology or evolution.
I just want to say that marriage is more of a universal value that has existed for centuries before Christianity, before Jesus, and before Moses...if he existed. (I like to treat the Bible as more of an exaggeration than a tale if I want to analyse it, however I have not gotten the courage to actually READ one...because of embarrasme.
If for some reaon, there WERE no religion, then at some point in time, values would still arise
Listen, your obviously a clever guy and a person who is capable of problem solving so I really don`t have any quarms with you. I was merely interested in why you have belief in a God. I know you know the arguments for and against and so it is far from my intentions to persuade you otherwise. I just personally find it extremely hard to comprehend a person of your intellect actually believing in a God. Being the man of logic and science as you are, I find it interesting as to why you believe in a God.
Do you think it is part of the human condition to believe in a God?
Also, do you think that if no holy scriptures were to have ever existed and the only ever teachings were atheistic (obviously hypothetical) the people would even consider a God as being a creator?
Once again I stress that I`m not trying to be provocative. I just value your opinion as a rational `believer`.
"Hey mom! I`m to go F*ck a hooker.. " LOLBecause people who go to church don`t, right?
As well as "I`m going to go smoke pot..."
All agnostics are atheist or theist.
Agnosticism is not a middle position.
They`re like internet memes.
Sky Fairy, Zombie Jesus, Problem of Evil, as well as a thousand strawmen they can easily defeat with cookie cutter arguments. People who do not understand the fundamentals of any of these concepts are using them.
Take Pascal`s Wager. If I bring it up it will be refuted (and rightly so) in seconds. If I reform it so it doesn`t apply to religion, and instead to Climate change, few even recognize it.
These are cases where they have memorized the dogma. No more.
Also, they are joined by more than you posit: List of secular groupings. This includes many things, including secular summer camp.
WRONG, so very wrong, variation is the driving force of evolution so you can`t say it`s rather variation within a bacterial kind not evolution as the two are not exclusive. Now as for mutations cause loss of function, the great majority probably do in haploid cells(i.e one copy of each chromosome) less so in diploid cells. However these cells w
THESE are the people being made fun of. rightfully so, in my opinion. You can be a good Christian and still believe in evolution. You can be a good christian and still read and follow the bible. But when you start throwing poisonous snakes at babies because it is in the bible,(check out the documentary called "Holy Ghost People") you basically open your specific faith to criticism and ridicule.
"Define "Rule the world", please. ._."
Having a lower divorce rate...
Loved every minute of that :-D
Actually, you are by definition an agnostic atheist. Gnosticism pertains to knowledge, theism to belief. Since you don`t believe in God, you`re atheistic, but since you don`t claim to know that God doesn`t exist, you`re agnostic.
"catbarf: Couldn`t help but notice your sourcing all that from the old testament, aka old Judaism moral laws. That was a maze of laws and judgments that no one could live by today, And those are NOT Christian morals. "
Look up Matthew 5:17 and 5:18, Luke 16:17, 2 Timothy 3:16, John 10:35, and compare the regulations on slavery in 1 Peter 2:18 to those in the OT. Then please come back and try to argue that you`re not supposed to follow the OT.
You are so stupid it`s baffling. Atheists are not joined by anything other than a passive position. There is nothing dogmatic about it. You really are incredibly stupid and most of the time I keep my mouth shut when you`re posting around here, but I have to put my foot down. You need to stop acting like you know what you`re talking about. You perpetuate the stereotype that atheists even CARE about religion. You perpetuate the ignorant statement that atheism is a religion. And honestly I can`t just sit around letting people like you deluge their weak imaginations with your bullsh*t. You`re clearly an intelligent person, but your thoughts are based on personal experience, not on actual facts. Don`t confuse the two.
as for your second point, Rome was actually the first Christian society. they were at first "pagan," worshipping a number of specified deities, (you know, Zeus, Apollo, and all those Roman and Greek gods,) but one of their emperors (was it Constantine?) switched the whole empire into a Christian empire, which essentially put into motion the events leading to a largely Christian dominated world, thousands of years later.
Im gonna go ahead and say it, "Christianity is a thousand year fad"
Take any soap that claims to kill 99% of germs. Take germs. Use soap on germs.
Wait for population to repopulate. Repeat.
This basic experiment demonstrates the basics of evolution in action over short periods of time. You then extrapolate from this data (and other data), and you get evolution.
To ask anyone to prove anything outside the scope of pure mathematics is futile, but this is a strong demonstration of evolution at work. There are plenty of other examples ranging from fossil and carbon dating, to the very basic reactions that animals have, and logical interpretation of that data.
However, I disagree that Religion is taking an abstract theory and that is it. Religions die and morph, in a very abstract form you could call it knowledge by evolution at the very least.
Another way of looking at it however if you know your programming is DFS vs BFS. With religion being the depth first search.
Actually, science is not a belief. It is a method of acquiring truth through thorough experiments and logic. It is the theories that you can choose to believe in or not. I choose to believe the most proven theories because they are far more sensible than any religion.`
I agree. Scientific method isn`t a `thing` to be believed in or not. It`s a means to obtaining truth. It goes like this:
1. Create an abstract theory to explain phenomena.2. Experiment/research to gather evidence to support or negate this theory.3. If no evidence is found, modify the theory.4. Repeat ad infinitum until truth is found.
Religion is simply taking the first step (create an abstract theory), without worrying whether it`s true or not.
Lol c u 2 nite.
Because learning about views different from your own, or discussing issues which you find interesting is a waste of time? Now don`t worry I`m not trying to start a debate with you here!
A the is t.
A "the" is NOT t! I refuse to remain silent!
I love how any video about religion or politics gets hundreds of comments, mostly from the same people "debating" with each other.
Baalth- You are right, it wasn`t fair. I am not saying that it is a religious matter as such. But what I meant to do was show that sometimes certain religious groups - through their lack of fear, or through their trust in God`s will - can possibly become unmotivated and apathetic.
Of course, I dont mean to say that is true of religious people across the board; or not true of atheists. Merely, a healthy `fear` or worry about something can be a good thing.
I did have more exposure to Christianity. My reasoning behind picking Islam was because after some exposure to Christianity I found myself saying "Ok, this makes sense, but this here does not".
When I found out more about Islam I then realised that my belief structure had more in common with Islam than with Christianity. (Belief in God, without the belief in a Trinity for example. Belief in Christ, but not the belief he was the son of God, nor God.)
Essentially, I was virtually a Muslim before I heard of Islam, and that made me come to the conclusion that it was a sign that it was in part correct.
I mostly hold that Islam is effectively the most accurate religion. Though still imperfect.
Actually, science is not a belief. It is a method of acquiring truth through thorough experiments and logic. It is the theories that you can choose to believe in or not. I choose to believe the most proven theories because they are far more sensible than any religion.
Fair enough.What made you pick Islam in particular then? What made it more reasonable than any other religion?
I`m genuinely curious, because as you said, you were raised in the UK, so I`d have thought you would have had most exposure to Christianity.
I would just like to announce to IAB, I HAVE TAKEN RAPTOR JESUS AS MY LORD. I encourage you all to do the same, before its to late.
I know, and I agree, but I think that`s a problem. Separation of church and state was meant for two reasons. To protect the state, but also to protect religion.
I think in America right now, you are hurting Christianity by applying so much of your politics and pulling it into the religious field.
Irrespective of your personal beliefs on gun control, or climate change, I think you are doing a disservice to God by tying them with religion.
Having said that, you did say it had nothing to do with religion, and I commend you on that, but your comment to me does suggest a certain amount of pride in linking the two. Unfairly on behalf on non-American Christians.
So I think I can safely answer that question with a yes. I started out life agnostic, like my mother.
Also Jimbob: Please show me where in the Bible, the reference to DNA melting you is. Thanks.
I think I cleared this matter up nicely, now moving on...
But seriously though, you are assuming that there is a `worst` opinion within a demographic which will be used as a method of deterring others from this demographic. However, fundamentalism does not allow for best and worst opinions as all opinions will be directly extracted from the exact wording of the bible. This doesn`t allow much room for a "worst" percent of that demographic.
if you accept that hes allknowing and capable of doing anything, he could have created earth 20 years ago and made an entire history behind it so we living now would perceive the world as older...
you gotta understand that faith is the keyword.
i am catholic, 95% of the 188million people in Brazil are christians, and no one teaches creationism in our schools.
i accept the theory of evolucionism in a way and that does not affect my faith in God and in Jesus whatsoever.
Just when I think I managed to say something that was pretty well-balanced, someone has to go and pick it all apart.
Let me be more clear then. If any video were to come out depicting any culture (micro or macro), sub-culture, demographic, club, group, cult, forum or otherwise, in a derogatory manner... it would probably mean (such as in this case) that the creator is purposefully taking the "worst" of that demogrphic so as to show how dumb the entire demographic is. In so doing would be creating a fallacy or in other words... propaganda so to speak. There are different degrees of Fundamentalist Christians wether it makes sense or not.
Didn`t read the comments, sorry, if I repeated someone`s thoughts.
With that said, this is a very funny video that proves absolutely nothing. It would be exactly the same if a Christian made a video depicting some of the dumb, uneducated things that *some Atheists say.
Can you imagine if I made a video with people articulating word-for-word some of the stupid crap that some people say on IAB? It would not mean that all IAB people are ridiculous.
This video proves absolutely nothing which would probably mean you`re wasting all your collective breaths by arguing about it. But, by all means let`s keep flaming.
-Dons black robes, wizard hat and flame-shield.
That`s why I am a proud evoultionloving leftwing socialist hellgoing Atheist :)
In all honesty I think we all have our beliefs, and some people choose not to believe in anything, and it shouldn`t be up to anyone to judge them.After all, doesn`t Jesus teach us in the Bible to not judge, and to "love one another, as I have loved you."
Food for thought.Evolution ftw :D
I happen to disagree with him on the matter, however, I think that is an American problem, not a theist or Christian one.
You have to take into consideration that in the US, the Republicans are the "religious party", so Christians have a tendency to side with them. as such, a lot of Republican ideals have found their way into American Christianity.
The only advocate I know of the Right to own Guns in the UK is an Atheist, all Christians I know are against it. Would you agree that is the case, and that the opposite is somewhat true of the United States?
See, it`s that easy.
Fear is used as a way to control people, They become griped by it and can`t let it go. It makes them do things that violate their own morals. It can be as hard to break as a drug habit.
"Let me sum it up in three words! Evolution(1) is(2) a(3) lie(4)"
I`m pretty sure they`re trying to parody real creationists. :P
1st Corinthians 13
I rest my case. You say it has nothing to do with religion, but it seems to be the Christian scientists who are the ones making the theories/arguments and finding the stats to support that case. I won`t get you started on it. I understand its a pointless argument to get in to.
To me it doesn`t, TBH, because the key ingredient to Christian faith, (I`m leaving out forgiveness and altruism on purpose to make a point) is fear of punishment, namely Hell. There are fewer people who follow the 10 Commandments out of love than those who abide by them because they will experience hell if they don`t.I`m sorry, but I`ve met too many Christians to believe your claim that they love God not out of fear.I`m not saying what you say fundamentally untrue, but you shouldn`t generalize.
And I don`t get why you`d think that Atheists are afraid. If we were, we would most likely be Theists to find comfort in faith. Nobody with a healthy mind would freely choose fear over comfort."No fear of death, Only Hope."Good word. There is no reason to be afraid of death, however the idea of eternal life actually repels me. What would I want that for? I ha
I find it preferable to do things out of Faith Hope and Love, Not Fear.
I don`t think people understand that either. "How can you be sure?!". I`m not. I`m also not sure if I`ll be coming to the UK this year, but I can believe, reasonably, that I will out of what I know.
I do not need to prove it conclusively to choose that over the concept that I won`t go to the UK this year.
I can`t really prove it to anyone in here "beyond any reasonable doubt!" because there is some. That doesn`t negate it being a reasonable conclusion.
It has nothing to do with religion.
A girl in my high school once spazzed in some class because she didn`t believe that space exists. Doesn`t believe in dinosaurs, either. It`s very far-fetched, but she boiled it all down to her steadfast belief in god.
Religious debate isn`t really my deal, but this video does make some points. It`s strange, though. Most of the extremely smart guys I know are athiest. The problem is that they are also christian-bashers. I agree with them completely, but there`s no reason they can`t have their beliefs without imposing on another`s. As much as they complain about persecution, they are engaging in it just as harshly.
When I hear someone make a comment like in this video, I simply smile and say, "Oh, you."
I didn`t have a psychological need for God. I was not afraid of disappearing. I was not afraid of hell. I was not chasing heaven.
Every time an atheist tried to psychoanalyze me, whether derogatorily (You`re just afraid! You can`t handle the truth!), or somewhat positively (Perhaps you`re just optimistic and would prefer a heaven?), they were universally off the mark.
I simply find it more reasonable. I`m *that* boring.
I don`t fear anyone or anything, That doesn`t mean I can`t be surprised or startled however.Christians love God, But not out of fear. Fear kills hope and love. Does that make sense to you ?
Megido: And it`s not a cover up.
Again however, you`re adding things to God and then refuting them.
Created the universe from nothing."From nothing" has been added. It is not necessary.
Other than that, you can make arguments that:Omniscience is possible, assuming there is a finite number of things to be known. Universe creation is also potentially possible.
Finally, as for a "natural God" to be unimpressive, I don`t see why.
That lack of fear is dangerous, i feel. It is healthy to have a fear. Take climate change for example. It seems that religions (i have only looked at Islam and some Christian (evangelical) churches on this issue - have an un-healthy lack of concern for climate change. It either is not happening, or it is the will of God and so we should not try to counter it. Views like that could ultimately prove devastating.
Perhaps it is good to have a certain amount of fear. It keeps people striving to improve things.
Modern Jews do not enact those laws, Although some extremist Islamists do.
Personally I have no fear of random events as I have no control over them. The lovely old phrases, poo happens, and if it can go wrong it will go wrong. Oh and I`m not actually afraid of death, of dying perhaps but death certainly not.
What I`m condensing down is what Gasser just wrote, Although I specified religion not Christianity. As well well know Christianity and Islam both are sourced from Judaism with differing revisions.
The fear I stated about atheists was their fear of some random event ruining them, For believers there are no random coincidences because of their faith. No fear of death, Only Hope.
Yoda was right, Fear leads to anger, Anger to hate, Hate to suffering. And I`d add... Suffering leads to death.
On another note, we don`t follow Christian morals. If we did, we`d execute children who disrespect or hit their parents (Exo 21:15, Lev 20:9), girls who aren`t virgins on their wedding night (Deut 22:20), and all the inhabitants of a town in which one person worships another god (Deut 13:12).
I would much prefer that people base morals off of social responsbilities rather than `Don`t do it because God says so.`
Basically, Don`t judge or punish people, Unless you are willing to be judged by the same standard and receive the same punishment if you fail.
In more layman terms, Don`t make unfair laws or punishments.
Also you say that you do not do things because of fear of punishment, but assume that without that fear atheists will immediately believe that killing is right? Please explain this further as I would like to hear your opinion on why you feel non-Christians are more likely to be immoral.
As always i fall back to the argument that a complex being like god can`t be the origin, it`s way too unlikely. Even given the infinite amount of tries it doesn`t matter because if there is something to try it in then God isn`t the creator because there was something there to create him to begin with.
However, I can`t help but feel that if an athiest has good morals and principles, then maybe it is worth more than if the same morals are held by Christians? I choose to live this way, knowing (or feeling) that there would be no negative consequences if I didn`t. Christians know there would be.
Sorry if i`m taking this out of context as I have just jumped into your convo, but i completely disagree.
I agree in the sense that atheists can redefine their morals, pretty much as they see fit if they wanted to. However, to me there is something special about the morality held by athiests.
I have very strong morals. I have no reason to hold them or act on them other than for the very reason that I think they are right and good. I do not act on them because I feel that God tells me I must, or to ensure I get a spot in heaven. The intent behind my actions are purely to be `good` to people. Not out of fear of God.
Now, of course you could argue that God plays a part. You could argue im born with these inherent beliefs (because God put them there), or because I learned them from Christian...
Also, I didn`t say you have "no sense of morals or ethics". I believe you do have some sense of morals and ethics, But that you can, And probably have, Chang(ed) them to fit your own view.
Was merely stating, My belief, That no amount of evidence would sway you."
If you could prove to me that God exists, and i mean proof, not just some rhetoric or gaps in science, i`d have no reason to doubt. Also you don`t follow the bible 100% either, you pick and choose what bits are morally upright and you choose not to throw rocks at people who work on sundays, even though the old testament clearly says you should.
You`re assuming Omnipotence and Omniscience, which, whilst common in theology, may be redefined or ignored. (Some theology suggests "Maximum power", some "Infinite Power", some "Can do anything". Those are three entirely different concepts.)
Can humanity have ever created something capable of becoming, from dictionary.com: God 1. The one Supreme Being, the creator and ruler of the universe.
The only real change I`m making is I`m saying *a* universe, not *the* universe for the purposes of this discussion. (I.e. We assume God comes from a previous Universe prior to ours).
As I said before, I don`t agree with all of the above. I`m merely trying to condense something far more complex into <900 characters.
That could go full circle with these additions:
I didn`t call you that specifically, I said "As we all are"
Was merely stating, My belief, That no amount of evidence would sway you.
As an atheist you can do no wrong. You can suppress your guilt and redefine your morals, As it stands right now. No matter what you do, You can justify it through whatever means."
Yes oh wise one, youa re right, i`m a dirty sinner with no sense of morals or ethics. Honestly, gtfo, your reasoning is so flawed it`s not even funny anymore.
"Given no time restraints, what is the probability of God evolving? Mechanically, Biologically or Physically? Could humanity ever create something "godly"?"The probability of god evolving is zero because something super natural couldn`t possibly be a product of the laws of physics. Humanity might get to the point where technology would make it seem godlike to a person today, but actually attaining omnipotence and omniscience...nope, not gonna happen ever i think. No matter how long evolution goes on i
Again, They are "socially rooted" because of religion and therefore you too are following religious beliefs, Regardless.
Also Perigee: I agree, but that doesn`t mean you haven`t become a religion. Scientology was set up by Hubbard because he saw other religions and wanted in. It wasn`t a "real" religion in that regard, but it has become one.
Some people might suggest Mohammed(p) copied Christianity and Judaism, but it is still a religion irrespective of it`s origins. Whether invented, ordained by God, or plagiarized.
Do we just want to be at the forefront of someone else`s attention? To be right? To be the winner? Claim to fight to defend your religion or non religion, but you are still just feeding the frenzy. As would I be...
If you are agnostic, atheist, christian, or any type of religion or non religion, organized or not, what in the world do you get for your troubles?
I think the REAL ignorance, your ignorance and mine, is that we fail in all religions and non religions to embrace our fellow man and woman, and move forward as a species. The most unfortunate thing is that it`s only human nature to do so, whether granted by a god or our own minds.
Some of us have taken steps to be the best we can be, some of us have not. And so shall it always be, until the end of time.
I am an atheist, but I bear you no ill will, regardless of your beliefs. I can only hope you embrace me nonetheless.
Evidence gives other levels of certainty. Personal experience is one thing, but you can assign probabilities to certain events outside the scope of personal experience.
Think of it another way, given an infinite amount of time, what is the effective level of evolution of any given thing?
Given no time restraints, what is the probability of God evolving? Mechanically, Biologically or Physically? Could humanity ever create something "godly"?
If yes to any one of those, and given an infinitely repeating non-static universe, it becomes likely that the event has occurred if the event has any chance at all.
It furthermore follows that individual "Big Bangs" could be influenced by such a being, and if it wanted to, would.
This is not my favourite view of God, but a possible one, and not particularly low on the probability scale.
If God was here right now and told you that you were a sinner (As we all are), I still doubt you would admit it.
As an atheist you can do no wrong. You can suppress your guilt and redefine your morals, As it stands right now. No matter what you do, You can justify it through whatever means.
I (subjectively) find the probability of their being a God to be greater than the probability of their not being a God.
I would suggest order, the fact that the universe has rules, not that it obeys them, to be demonstrative of a creator. (In other words, Conway`s Game of Life demonstrates complexity is derived from simplicity. Conway himself however, is a demonstration of what a creator does.)
Finally, I find the faith required to believe in God, to be equivalent to any inductive leap.
(Despite what Megido may suggest, placing a probability on God is entirely subjective. Him suggesting it is improbable, merely demonstrates closed mindedness. You`d have to know what God is before knowing the chances of him existing. Anyone who claims to know this, theist or atheist, is lying).
But, There are many many species of solitary animals, Exceptions made during times of mating.
Lions eat their own cubs, Chimpanzees kill their own siblings, etc..
If your trying to base your morality on animals, You fail.
You do realize that a God springing into existence from nothing is by far more unlikely than matter just appearing out of nothing, right? A being like God would be insanely complex yet it`s more likely that such a complex entity would materialize and create the universe? God is the ultimate aggrevator of the infinite regress and defies all logic and physics. There are plenty of fossils to look at, religious people just have a tendency to look at the specific cases where science is lacking. Besides, carbon dating is able to determine age far older than 6000 years.
Yep, that`s what IAB is all about. The people who visit IAB who don`t take part in the forums, miss out on the absolute best part of the site. A few interesting facts for you all:
IAB has roughly 750,000 page views per day, but only about 7,000 members. That`s a lot of people who are missing out on the community side of things.
The highest number of posts from one user (that I`ve ever seen) is around 43,000.
There are now 11 mods, spread out over time zones.
We love our community so much, whenever a member stops posting, we usually notice it (Verily, not one sparrow falls to the ground without Him knowing it :-) )
You know that`s not what i meant. Pack animals have in-groups because it`s beneficial to them, not because god told them to, and it`s the same with humans. A pack of humans have a much better chance of survival than a single human and thus it is beneficial to be nice to each other.
I believe in logic, not fairy tales which defy observable measurable laws of physics. When someone says to me "the entire universe was created instantly, out of nothing, in a big explosion", my scepticism kicks in and says " that`s impossible, you must have strong faith to believe that". When people say a rock is a billion years old, when no object on earth can be observably, reliably dated at more than the 6,000 or so years of written history and science, I find that laughable. When someone says "man evolved from this" and all the bones ever dug up are either Step A or Step Z, and no-one ever digs up any bones in between even though logically they must make up 99.9999% of fossils, I find that unlikely. Logically, for something to exist, there must be a creator of that object. Hence I believe in God.
People break down into two groups. When they experience something lucky, group one sees it as more than luck, more than coincidence. They see it as a sign, evidence, that there is someone up there, watching out for them. Group two sees it as just pure luck. Just a happy turn of chance... deep down, they feel that whatever happens, they`re on their own. And that fills them with fear... But there`s a whole lot of people in group number one... deep down, they feel that whatever`s going to happen, there will be someone there to help them. And that fills them with hope... What kind of person are you? Are you the kind that sees signs & miracles? Or do you believe that people just get lucky? Or, look at the question this way: Is it possible that there are no coincidences?
Wrong, Murder among many animal family groups does happen. In fact evolutionists believe that behavior is part of natural selection.
insanmonster: So you`re allowing a professor to form your ethos for you. Over the advice of your family.
Oh and i never said Statistically possible, i said PROBABLE. There is a huge difference.
Atheists on the other hand feel that some things are just wrong and shouldn`t be done..... Who is the more moral here?
Also morals are simply rules of what is acceptable for society, yes our current social morals are heavily influenced by our christian heritage, but every society throughout history has had moral codes, although some we currently would disagree with now.
That`s quite simple really: the world is not full of fairyists prancing around preaching their doctrine of fairyism. So the afairyists would find no purpose in congregating to discuss how annoying the fairyists are.
The same cannot be said to be true of theists/atheists. The existence of atheist groups is pretty much a reaction to the existence of theist groups (religions!) and after all, if religious people are going to be represented by their religious groups then some (and you`d know this if you`ve read much of Dawkins) atheists would ask why there aren`t any major influential groups that represent those of the opposite opinion.
I`m sincerely sorry for getting involved and hope I don`t come across as a bigot or something.
If you answer honestly, You know they came from religious sources. So if you are following religious morals, Then you are in effect following religious beliefs in a round about way.
They became atheists for selfish reasons and thoroughly hate Christians, God, and/or their parents. You can`t even discuss God or morality in their presence without them thinking you are mentally attacking them. "
Okay, that`s probably true, but I don`t think it`s OK to blanket statement Atheism as a whole because of some people you know. Basically that was some of the most offensive and hateful stuff I`ve read in a long while.
Untrue, I am an atheist, I turned 18 in January have never drank, smoked, chewed tobacco, got in a true physical fight, done any illegal drugs, and I still have never shot a gun (If that makes a difference)
I will tell you why I am an atheist, I intend no offense to anyone of any religion in my next comments. I believe that religions were created for people to try and help understand what was going on in the world and now that we understand mostly every natural phenomena,many people use religion to get through the day and help explain why they should be nice to people. It is really an existential argument.
They became atheists for selfish reasons and thoroughly hate Christians, God, and/or their parents. You can`t even discuss God or morality in their presence without them thinking you are mentally attacking them.
Look man, I love Jesus, sincerely. I`m not a fundamentalist or a creationist nor am I perfect. But here`s what I know.
Atheism is not an attempt to escape morality. I would wager (and the statistics book UnChristian would help back this up) that people are Atheists largely because
1) Lack of proof of God2) Contradictions between the (fundamentalist) view of creation, psychology, law etc., and what science tells us now3) Poor interactions with people who claim to be of a certain faith group that act hypocritically.
Most Atheists I know aren`t as `moral` as the Christians i know would claim to be, but the Athesists have nothing to hide....
This is not counting a single other charitable donation.
I would suggest the list didn`t take everything into consideration. Including Muslim Zakat or the money or food given away at Eid.
I`d estimate somewhere in the region of $15 billion per eid, plus $5 billion in meat. Plus what (should in theory) be $60 billion in Zakat annually. Not counting personal, private, organizational, or foreign aid.
"Sorry for forgetting my source", my bad.
FACTS FTW"From what i`ve read between 20 and 25% say that they believe in a god when polled, but hey, i can`t say for sure. And if you are going criticizes my sources please supply one yourself. As it stands your numbers are no more credible than mine.
I`m hoping you`ll realize how inter-connected we each are to the universe and each other and that was not some random accident or roll of the dice.
-between 46 and 85, sorry if that`s redundant.
Do you live under a rock, sir?"
I don`t know any, but I would wager a large amount of people outside the church are running those things where I live... the ratio here of Churched to "Unchurched" is between 1:15 and 1:20... and good for them, the world needs help regardless of religion.
I grew up in a secular majority country. I spent years debating religion with Atheists. I was one of the first 1000 members of the Internet Infidels. I`ve researched it more than you have.
If you want to be extremely technical, you pull out a dictionary. You are a religion.
If you want to be more abstract, you are still a religion. You behave as one, your psychology is the same, your grouping is the same, your evangelism is the same, your level of hatred for other groups is the same, your defense of your worldview is the same. There is nothing in the grand scheme of things that makes you distinct from other religious groupings. Not. One. Thing.
What you are asking me to do, is to be technical but not too technical, to be abstract, but not too abstract, all in some hazy middle ground where you have a meaningless victory on self imposed definitions.
How is that confusing? Life on other planets in the universe is statistically probable, god is not. It`s that simple.
One of the largest humanistic groupof people in the world is a Satanist one
Can`t remember the name right now,But i`m sure they`re from Texas...Their main office is, at least
So... If you haven`t seen that onTV is not because they do not exist,but because people are so close-mindedthat even if they were giving you somefree food for you to survive the nightafter your house is in several placesof your city thanks to a tornado...
You would say"No... You are evil"
You know I`m right
Do you live under a rock, sir?
For a group claiming to not be a religion, atheists sure spend a lot of time, effort and money trying to be evangelists for their beliefs.
Yet how many atheist run soup kitchen, food pantry, homeless outreach center, homeless shelter, hospitals, and hospices are there ?
If atheism is a religion, It is a damn selfish and mean one.
I`ve noticed that for the most part you usually have half a brain, but right now you`re just making yourself look stupid. I don`t really care what dictionary.com has to say about atheism. I really don`t. Do you know why? Hell, I`ll tell you why, because I don`t care what dictionary.com says about Hitler, or Christians either--it doesn`t even get near the tip of the TIP of the iceberg.
Also, if atheism is a doctrine then I guess not collecting stamps is a cult.
Also, you got the analogy wrong. Atheism is a religion like bald is a hair color. It`s an absence of belief. So there is no hair [religion/beliefs] in the first place. Go research this kind of stuff before you go quoting dictionary.com. It`s great for words that we use in everyday language, and it`s absolutely wonderful when you`re writing poetry and you want to see all the nuances of the word you are using, but aside from that, the dictionary is a joke--go read an encyclopedia or something.
Glad I could help. Not to be mean at all, but a lot of people don`t investigate their beliefs enough to nail them down. Even my beliefs are so strange that I cannot even find words for them. I mean, how does one describe that they believe in things like love, and human goodness? A humanist? It means more to me than just that.
What I find confusing is how many Atheists refuse to believe in God but have no issue with believing in Aliens or accepting "Holiday Pay".
Here`s to another 50 years of senseless bullpoo.
To anyone who believes this, Evolution doesn`t say that we "evolved" from monkeys, we just had a common ancestor.
That said, this was hilarious. especially the rant about the atheist family. Christian fundies may piss me off most of the time, but damn, they make good comedy.
Specifically defining yourself around an opinion you hold makes you a member of a group that has an opinion/belief regarding a/some supernatural entities slides you effectively into the religion category.
There are not "afairy" websites like there are atheist ones (Secularweb, heathenhangout, infidels.org, etc). There are not organizations designed to gather you as a congregation (See chapters of GodlessAmericans, AmericanAtheists, etc).
There is not an influencer in government for "Afairyist morals" or "Afairyist ideals" like GAPAC.
Afairyists don`t have preachers or online trolls, nor are they overly concerned with conversion to their beliefs. Their lack of belief plays no part in their lives.
Not the case with atheism (especially online). This is why people look at Atheism like religion.
For exampleThousands of years ago we hadthe God of Rain, Fire, etc.And every little thing that humans coulnd`t explain, had a God.Why? Because we needed an explication
We know how Rain works, we knowhow to create Fire, so we don`t haveall those Gods now... Well, except fromsome naturalist religions but that`sanother story
Anyway...The only thing we can`t explain is:Why are we here and how we got here?
The day we answer those questions, and I mean a fully believable explication... Then Godwill be out of our minds
I`m an Atheist... Well, to be exact,I`m a Satanist (No, I do not worshipSatan or sacrifice babys), I takeSatan as an Idol, the image of "What you cando for yourself and for the ones aroundyou"
Please... understandAtheism isn`t a religion, is just thecategory to name the g
looked up definition (hadn`t heard that one before) and yeah it fits more with my thoughts.
Second:It is especially true of Strong Atheism
Third:Dictionary.com says Atheism is: 2. The doctrine or belief that there is no God. (Hahahaha).
No matter how much you froth at the mouth for being kicked off your pedestal you can be defined as a religion. It`s a common word game to try and call your religion not a religion. This makes people feel superior without merit.
Nothing changes whether you are called a religion or not. Nothing. It`s all definitions. You`re welling up inside with "No! I am superior! It must be so!" but it isn`t, and it never will be.
If anything, Atheism is a religion the same way black is a hair color. It`s technically the absence of color, but for all effective purposes it`s still a color, and you can still define it as such.
If you are agnostic, atheist, christian, or any type of religion or non religion, organized or not, what in the world do you get for your troubles?
I am an atheist, but I bear you no ill will, regardless of your beliefs. I can only hope you embrace me nonetheless.