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umm yeah, if some dumby came up and hit me, i hit back, i don`t htink let em hit me and see what the law comes up with that is reasonable and sane, i kick their little ass
And besides, I rarely see the term "an eye for an eye" go for the reverse. People are rarely given back for doing good. So do you say that an eye for an eye should only apply towards the negative? Then what`s that teaching the people of the world except do good, recieve nothing, do bad, recieve punishment.
Well let`s ask this then:
What is a proper punishment in a culture we don`t live in and aren`t supposed to make the rules in?
I really can`t stand that aspect of this country. We would go ape poo if another country came here and told us what to do because they didn`t agree.
I`m not saying it`s right, but it isn`t wrong. It`s just something that is.
The idea of "eye for an eye" is because the whole world will not go blind- it`s a serious penalty that people will take SERIOUSLY. Look how people laugh at our prison system? And do our people ever fully return to society as productive members? The people would LEARN- not have everyone go blind. Assuming people are intelligent enough to learn...
She was so beautiful before, and now he ruined her sight and face just because she didn`t obey him and marry him?
I say that SHE should be allowed to pour acid in his eyes.
An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind. Apparently.
I`m sorry....but until you have had acid thrown in your eyes and your life pretty much just RUINED, I don`t think you should say that.
Much easier said than done.
This seems like one of those deals that could only be properly handled by a time machine and medieval justice. (I wonder what legal issues that would raise...)
You also have to admit it is better then the slap on the wrist some criminals get.
this kind of justice just controls people and has no hope of progress. a rehabilitative system of justice has the ability to create progress if its ideals are understood by the people. if you think criminals are born criminals and will never change, then f*ck it, let`s kill em all.
Normally `blood money` is paid to victims of this sort of violence (as stated in the video). *BUT*The monsters that blind woman and girls like this would (and have) rather paid the money than be blinded.
If paying that money is ok with this monsters then it`s become a sort of `fine` that they are willing to accept.
If paying the money isn`t a deterrent to this type of crime, then maybe they need to think of something else that *will* work.
Blinding this man (as distastful as it sounds)may stop others from blinding helpless woman and girls were paying the `blood money` has not.
Person 1 kills person 2, person 2`s son kills person 1, so person 1`s best friend kills the son of person 2, and it just keeps going down the line."
That was what I was trying to say.
Person 1 kills person 2, person 2`s son kills person 1, so person 1`s best friend kills the son of person 2, and it just keeps going down the line.
Dude is a sick loser, couldnt handle rejection so he throws acid on her? Then they should just slowly remove his head
That only applies when both sides are acting out revenge.
I would have no problem with personally harming violent criminals.
I kinda wish that similar laws applied here in the UK, just so that all the chavs stabbing and mugging people would feel how it feels rather than collect asbos.
Exodus and Leviticus say "an eye for an eye" IF THERE IS FURTHER DAMAGE after a fight ends, ie if the fighter doesn`t accept his defeat gracefully and injures you unfairly AFTER the fight is over. It`s OT law.
Jesus revoked it. He said (Matthew 5)38 You have heard that it was said, `AN EYE FOR AN EYE, AND A TOOTH FOR A TOOTH.`39 But I say to you, do not resist an evil person; but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also [so he can slap that one too]40 If anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, let him have your coat also.41 Whoever forces you to go one mile, go with him two.42 Give to him who asks of you, and do not turn away from him who wants to borrow from you.
The point was, OT law was no longer applicable, because the Special status of the Jews in God`s eyes was now open to anyone who believed in Jesus, Jews and Gentiles alike.
...especially if they televised the procedure.
Well, I`d disagree with myself here. I can understand her position, but she could have accepted the money equally, which would have helped with her medical bills.
Who knows the real situation.
if it was "an eye for an eye" in law... I think there would be far too many rapes. >___>
Seriously who gives a f*ck if it`s revenge? Just kill the derranged freak!
I also don`t like the sound of a system though where an individual can get off with just a fine for something like this. Would the fine replace jail time, or be on top of it?
I think a summary of my posts would be:On the topic of whether or not this is Shariah:This does seem to legitimately fall under the limit of what Shariah allows. This can be argued however.
In either case, this is pretty much the limit of what Shariah allows to be done to this guy.
Shariah does not specify this punishment. This is not common or expected. This is a special request on behalf of the girl.
On the topic of is it fair:I think yes. It was a horrible crime and this is a punishment to suit the crime.
On the topic of is it justified:I think it is important to deter criminals. I think this will help. It therefore suits its purpose.
On the topic of is it humane:I would say no, however, I think (limited) inhumanity is necessary for any deterrent property.
In Iran: Not wearing a veil can get you imprisoned. In Dubai: Not wearing a veil is the norm, with no punishment. In Mohammed`s time: There`s seems to be no punishment.
Drinking in Iran: Outlawed entirely, punisheable by imprisonment or sometime whipping. Drinking in Dubai: Broadly legal (you need a license). Drinking in Mohammed`s time: Mohammed saw a drunk, and called him a drunk...
Specifically when it comes to punishments, governments can set any limits they like. If you hear "Shariah law demands punishment X!" it is bullpoo 999/1000 times.
In this specific case I have given the verses they are using to justify it lower down.
1) Enacting this law will be a deterrent to future attackers, as current methods (imprisonments and fines) have so far failed. 2) She is within her rights to ask for this punishment.
3) Initially they refused when they thought she meant the exact same punishment. When they realised she was asking for a lesser punishment (effectively only blinding him), discussion started.
4) She is not going to be allowed to charge him with a bottle of acid "as an individual".
5) In response to "Golden rule". As I said, the Quran specifically says you`ll be rewarded for applying it, but doesn`t force you to.
You get slapped on your right with his left. You turn your other cheek to him in order to force him to use his right (i.e. holy) hand to hit you, at which point he would be unlikely to hit you as the weight of it being sinful is more prevalent."
i`ll put it a different way. i think that you should put others before yourself. selflessness is the key to morality. the golden rule. sacrifice.
what is necessary is accomplished through reason by the government. a government is a necessary thing due to the fallen nature of man. as an individual, however, you can combat the nature of the world.
"Turn the other cheek" is so misunderstood, originally it meant to force your opponent to hit you with his other hand.
You get slapped on your right with his left. You turn your other cheek to him in order to force him to use his right (i.e. holy) hand to hit you, at which point he would be unlikely to hit you as the weight of it being sinful is more prevalent.
our prison system is broken, "an eye for an eye" is a false ideal.
i think that people should kill their pride and turn the other cheek
Final point on the issue before I need to go:
The only reason prisons are currently a deterrent are the other prisoners. Rape and violence are your deterrents, not prison. I think you should keep that in mind when you`re comparing this punishment to what you consider the right thing to do.
what? you realize you didn`t say anything in these sentences. you just used rhetoric to suggest your opinion with nothing to back it up.
Well you can lead a horse to water but it`s worth two in the bush. <-- Pointless catchphrase #365
As I just said it says "This is your maximum". That`s what the whole Quran is about. "Never go beyond this". Are you seriously suggesting that it would be better to not limit humanity in it`s capacity for revenge?
From the same chapter:5:87 "O you who believe! Do not forbid (yourselves) the good things which Allah has made lawful for you and do not exceed the limits; surely Allah does not love those who exceed the limits".
It advises charitably waving the right in favour of gaining greater heavenly rewards. (Which is a big deal, after all, you probably think the reason for all the terrorism is heavenly rewards).
It also, for those going beyond the limit, tells them specifically that they are as bad as the person they are punishing, and will be punished accordingly.
"An eye for an eye will make the world blind" is the happy catchphrase. I would suggest that stopping crazy people from hurling acid in people`s faces might be a more reasonable way to stop the world going blind.
However, let her throw the acid on his genitals as well as his eyes. Now that would be justice.
//cultural traditions do not exempt you from logical thinking.//
You`re contradicting yourself.
The theory is, this will prevent more attacks by publicly demonstrating the punishment for these kinds of grievous acts of violence.
(The actual reference to Shariah btw, is Quran 5:45, translated by myself so feel free to check other sources: "We ordained for them: Life for life, eye for eye, nose or nose, ear for ear, tooth for tooth, and wounds equal for equal, but if anyone charitably forgoes this punishment, it is an act of atonement for themselves. If any fail to judge by what Allah hath revealed, they [then become"> wrong-doers").
In Kenya, female activists are calling for the re-institution of laws which castrate men for rape.
just had to quote that for terrifying hopelessness
"The entire concept of punishment is to act as a deterrent to future would-be offenders."
actually, hobbes, the founder of western political philosophy, describes punishment as a way in which people are deterred from breaking their covenant with society.
@at every american that thinks this is justifiedif you feel that "an eye for an eye" has any place in political justice then you are being severely misrepresented by the foundations of your constitution. this doctrine is passionate and political justice must remain as systematic as possible. a government has no right to act outside of pure reason.
Reasons for punishment:
1. Deterrent - prevent would-be offenders from committing the crime for fear of punishment.
2. Retribution/Revenge - for loved ones and society as a whole against the offender.
3. Rehabilitation - teach the offender that what they did was wrong, so they don`t do it again; and, offer the offender vocational and sociological and psychological rehabilitation to help them become better-suited to law-abiding behavior.
4. Prevention - taking the offender off of the streets prevents him from committing most crimes while he is incarcerated.
If they do give him this punishment, the next guy who considers it might think: "If I go through with this, I risk the same punishment the last guy got. Maybe I shouldn`t do this."
It`s unfortunate that there wasn`t someone nearby when it happened to act in her defense and "accidentally" kill this man.
As long as he isn`t all"Look, baybee, I got my eyes burned out just liek you, we were meant for each other! SAY YES OR I WILL CUT YOU!"Kinda sounds like what the creepers I`ve met would do... >_>
ummm.. why was that necessary? you really think you can make an accurate judgement of my intellect based on one short comment? perhaps i did not make myself clear before. i understand that this is their culture, and that is their way, but blinding the man is simply an illogical route to accomplish her goal of preventing this happening to other women. cultural traditions do not exempt you from logical thinking.
jailing someone does NOT work, more than half those people lived in worse conditions than the prison itself
nobody truly changes, you can mask it all you want but the way you are is the way you are for life
Sharia Law is based on the Koran, also on the Sunnah (religious achievements and manners that were instituted by the Islamic prophet Muhammad) and the Igma, but no Hammurabi.
PS. Poor woman, and that guy deserves to die!
Than again, in this corrupt world, what can we do?
He got the acid from a car battery.
Personally I think acid in his eyes is too good a punishment for him. He should be jailed for life and all his assets turned over to her.
I see where she`s coming from wanting the guy to be blinded too but I don`t think it`s really the best thing to do. Although it would be a good way to scare other people planning on attacking someone with acid.
At least the fact that this is an outrage there proves that it isn`t all woman-hating. The middle east (at least, the more urban parts of it) is more humane than western culture gives it credit for.