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It all happened because the people forgot that their liberties were important. The nation became paranoid, established an unsustainable empire, made "funny money" out of worthless metals, and the people became dependent on the government for public funding. Sound familiar?
Show me an example of a well-established country that just all of a sudden became a police state.
Let`s see... Cuba and Russia both became police states after a revolutionary war, most of the middle east has ALWAYS been dictatorships and absolute control...
When the people are set in their ways, you can`t just take them over. Not without throwing their whole world into chaos first to give a reason for taking over.
And the problem with that is, in the US, there are people who are actually ACTIVE in the effort to prevent just that from happening. Unfortunately, you sitting here on IAB wasting your time with a pointless arguement doesn`t tell me that you`re one of them...
a police state isn`t made after a country is well established and the people are set in their ways.
Ignorance is shining through brightly in those statements. Apparently history isn`t one of your "gifted" subjects.
Also, I was put in the gifted program at my school in fourth grade and stayed there for the rest of my education. Top score on all standardized tests and the ACT in my class. And you know what? It doesn`t mean sh*t. I`d advise you to get over yourself now because in the real world no one cares about your IQ and you can`t barter your way out of any situation using your test scores. I give that advice in honest sincerity and am abandoning this thread.
As for political and ethical wisdom, age STILL doesn`t count for much, because as it is, many of the situations we`re facing we`ve faced in the past, and the solutions we used back then didn`t work.
We need NEW thinkers, not people who believe the same old bullsh*t.
On topic with the actual subject this arguement started with, if this country was going to become a police state, we`d already be one. There were many points in history where the government could have completely taken control, and taken away all of our freedoms. But they didn`t.
And they won`t. Because a police state isn`t made after a country is well established and the people are set in their ways. The people would launch a revolution, and in this country especially, the people would win.
As a 16-year-old, I`ll argue a point I believe in for one of two purposes:
1) The other person may refute my argument successfully and I gain a new paradigm, am shown superior logic or am taught new information.
2) I am 100% sure I`m right.
Option 2 doesn`t happen very often because as a 16-year-old, I know that I have had far less world experience than my older contemporaries. Your IQ and academic skills are impressive, but they only indicate your intellectual potential, not your actual knowledge or wisdom. So from one kid to another: please don`t use that kind of information in an argument. Actually refute their points and win on relevant information or concede and learn. Either option is good.
A) Quite likely because "smart" people tend to avoid the word, especially saying it in that manner.
B) Classified as gifted since the age of 7 in the state of Ohio in the area`s of Math, Science, Reading, and Writing, with a genius IQ.
You just did.
Ha ha, you also seem to have an ego problem. I have never met someone who said, "I`m so smart" and had it been true.
I`m not the paranoid f*cking moron who thinks the government`s going to take over every aspect of my life.
Again, have fun making an ass of yourself.
Isn`t this video attempting to accomplish the same thing it accuses the "Government" of?
I am more fearful of Corporations eavesdropping on my privacy than I am of the Government.
A) I never said that I had any more faith in the government. I said that the way people automatically assume that everyone in power is going to turn corrupt is just as stupid as believeing that most "normal" people are "good."
B) Considering that I ceased the arguement by admitting that this had turned into a pissing contest, and that all this bullsh*t was pointless, and NOONE ELSE has argued here since, you are now officially a dumbass, for being late to the party. Have fun making as ass of yourself.
Including this one, and the economic crisis we`re in right now.
I learned a LONG time ago not to have faith in my fellow man," because they`re not worth it."
A. Faith in the government has gotten us into this economic crisis, not faith in the common man.
B. If you think your fellow man is so evil that he can not be trusted, what makes you think the men in the government are so much better? To quote Frederic Bastiat:
"If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind?"
It`s a case of "I think you`re a moron, and you know I`m an idiot."
I`m right, your wrong, you`re thinking the same thing, let`s just end this stupid f*cking charade and go on with our lives.
Ever heard of a Free Speech Zone?
"It WON`T TAKE AWAY EVERYTHING."
History shows that a government will take away your most basic rights if you let it.
"If you`re smart enough, you can get around it all anyway."
Irrelevant. That`s not what this is about and you know it.
"The only people that will actually suffer from much of this are the people that either
A) Do something illegal,
B)aren`t smart enough to figure out a way around the system"
The thing is, when governments get like this they start to make things like dissent illegal. They start to make it illegal to belong to a particular religion or to hold particular opinions. That`s what happens, and that`s what needs to be prevented.
I didn`t say full control.
"B) I called you all a bunch of hypocrites because you seem to think that people AREN`T evil, but power automatically MAKES them evil."
Great, now you`re attacking straw men.
"C) Maybe you should present me a valid example of where giving someone power automatically makes them corrupt. I asked that first, and you seem to have doged the issue. Just like anyone of your type will. If you don`t like the question, you never heard it."
Yet another straw man, and a generalization. Are you even trying to make a valid point?
Show me an example of where these rights have been taken away. I can still say whatever I want on here, can I not?
I`m still allowed to tell stories about getting a BJ from my GF over the phone, am I not?
I haven`t gotten any blackmail letters from the government, even when I said the same things I normally do while on the watchlist.
It WON`T TAKE AWAY EVERYTHING. If you`re smart enough, you can get around it all anyway. If you`re not, well, learn to live with the system because the idiots have always been slaves anyway, whether they knew it or not.
The only people that will actually suffer from much of this are the people that either
B)aren`t smart enough to figure out a way around the system
A) I never SAID the government should have full control over us.
B) I called you all a bunch of hypocrites because you seem to think that people AREN`T evil, but power automatically MAKES them evil.
But people have a conscience, according to you a least.
C) Maybe you should present me a valid example of where giving someone power automatically makes them corrupt. I asked that first, and you seem to have doged the issue. Just like anyone of your type will. If you don`t like the question, you never heard it.
Sounds good to me, where do I sign up?
i`m really not trying to be an assh*le right now, but you should just talk to someone about this. don`t vent online, find a friend or a teacher or someone to talk about this with. please take my word that i am being sincere right now.
You seem to have this idea that the constitution and human rights in general aren`t important, as has been heavily implied by your posts, and by your complacency in allowing your rights and the rights of those around you to be stripped away.
Can you give a valid reason as to why the government should be allowed to own all of us and have such control over us, or are you going to keep whining about how evil everyone is and calling people hypocrites when they clearly aren`t?
Don`t punish the world for your own misanthropy.
I personally think that this is an inevitable outcome of the onset of advanced technology. More people are now capable of more advanced crimes and the materials involved are becoming easier to acquire. It maybe that this surveillance will be the only prevention down the line when we enter an age where people will be able to build nukes and create viruses in their basements.
How many people in history have had power and stayed decent people?
How many could have led an army and destroyed entire nations, slaughtered hundreds of thousands of people, could have ordered an uprising... But didn`t?
The quote, is bullsh*t, plain and simple, because there are hundreds of examples that can dis-prove it as easily as it can be proven.
Put a gun in a mans hands. That`s giving him power, power to kill you and a number of people around him.
According to you and Mjustin, you would trust him NOT to pull the trigger. Because, as you said, you have "faith in your fellow man," and as Mjustin said, "most people aren`t like that. The vast majority of people aren`t being held back from killing others by a law; they`re held back by their own conscience."
I MYSELF didn`t call bullsh*t on the quote. This so called "conscience" called bullsh*t.
You`re a bunch of hypocrites.
That`s more than a little hypocritical.
Especially considering that, at some pont or another, most of them were one of us.
That quote about "power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely," is a load of bullsh*t.
Power doesn`t do anything more than bring out the corruption that was already in the people to begin with.
You`re just assuming that since the government has a gun in their hands, they`re going to pull the trigger.
Well, here`s a little hint. There are millions of "normal," and "good" people that would do the same thing.
And who do you think protects us from those people?
And HOW do you think they do it?
This is what happens when governments get too big and too comfortable. Our rights are getting stripped away one by one, little by little. If you let the government take away your right to privacy, pretty soon your freedom of speech goes bye-bye. Then your right to bear arms. Then your freedom of religion, etc. It`s a slippery slope, and we`ve started sliding.
"Faith in your fellow man" is what`s gotten the world into one hell of a lot of messes.
Faith itself has caused just about every problem known to man, with the exception of natural disastors.
I learned a LONG time ago not to have faith in my fellow man," because they`re not worth it.
Obviously you`ve never suffered at the hands of someone you thought you could trust. I`m speaking to a deaf man.
I`m not presenting valid points for one of two reasons, either
A) You`re an idiot, just like the majority of the morons that actually believe that this is going to take away everything,
B) You won`t listen to ANY points besides those that agree to your own, in which case, see reason A.
That seems like the only way, short of a revolution, that anything`s going to change.
And I`ve already got the revolution path covered.
Now, let`s see if THAT gets me put on some watchlist, or put under constant surveillance. That`s an anti-governmental statement, right there, but I don`t see anyone dragging me out of my home and shooting me, otherwise I wouldn`t be typing this, now would I?
The people are, after all, the drug dealers, the mass murderers, the rapists, the psychopaths, the smugglers, the illegals coming in and taking our jobs.
The people are disgusting, and the only reason any of this surveillance is necessary is in an attempt to clean things up and protect the innocents.
You know, the innocents. The rape-victims, the three our four people that have most likely been stabbed to death since I started typing this, the people who`ve been killed in accidents related to driving, or simply BEING, intoxicated from some drug or alcohol.
non-nice individuals like you are ALWAYS against it, until something happens to you that could have EASILY been prevented.
What you don`t realize is the government does care. They care about every little thing you do because they want to make sure you`re an obedient citizen. Authoritarian governments are afraid of dissent. They want to know every word you say and every action you take so they can make sure that you`re not a potential threat to their power.
Think of it this way: A government is like a horny teenage boy on prom night; he`ll go as far as she lets him. As soon as you let the government invade your private life, pretty soon you get pulled out of your house by a man in a suit and shot for suspicion of dissent. We`re already making the transition here in the US; we`ve just got a bit of catching up to do before we`re at the UK`s level.
Really, this "nothing to hide" mantra is a very slippery slope. If you examine history -especially of the United States- once the government attains power, it never voluntarily decreases its own power. It always expands. Once the government has the power to watch people, it opens a door for them to monitor their political beliefs, religious beliefs, and other non-victimizing habits and subsequently discriminate by them (as in if you oppose anything the government does, you could be thrown in jail or killed... just to be safe). Obviously, the government doesn`t go for bad intentions right away. Remember, if you place a frog in boiling water, it will jump out immediately, However, if you place a frog in tepid water and slowly turn up the heat, the frog will boil to death. We are the frogs, and the government is turning up the heat.
oh, and by the way, our freedoms (in america) that a lot of you people are talking about, are being preserved by the brilliant document that is our constitution, not by any actions of our current government.
You just have to learn to be more sneaky.
People bitch because it`s an "invasion of privacy," because "the government can know where you`re going, and what you`re doing."
Here`s the thing, the government DOESN`T F*CKING CARE. And if they do, they`re not exactly the best institution that the people, namely YOU, have elected, then are they.
What they do care about is that someone out there flies past at 90 in a 45 mp/h zone. That person then has his liscence plate checked and a ticket sent to his home. He probably won`t speed again.
On the other hand, no cameras catch him, and one day he spins out of control and kills a small child. Now people are complaining because there wasn`t an officer around to stop him.
You can`t make everyone happy all the time. The best you can do is make them SAFE, whether they like it or not.
The problem with this world is, EVERYONE IS A F*CKING CRIMINAL, because noone actually knows who the real criminals ARE.
So many normal people can go berserk, and kill plenty of people. It`s happened in the past, with school shootings, postal shootings, terrorist attacks.
When you don`t know who to suspect, you have to suspect EVERYONE. It`s a basic tactic. And it f*cking works.
It doesn`t make the people very happy, because they think it`s an "invasion of privacy," but the fact is that you have no clue who`s the next Charles Manson until his plan`s already in motion. But if you can detect him early, then you can save innocent lives and keep the bad guys off the streets.
And the GOVERNMENT, when THEY`RE doing the surveillance, will also try to ARREST the freak who would blackmail you.
"Please, shut the f*ck up. You have no idea what you are talking about."
Just like your average moronic paranoid idiot. Constantly telling people "you don`t know what your talking about," and all that poo.
I`ve helped set up three home security systems, tapped multiple phones for my own enjoyment, and have been on an FBI f*cking watchlist. I know a thing or two about what happens when the government, or private companies, etc., put you under surveillance.
Please, shut the f*ck up and observe keaton`s theory on the matter.
"And as long as I don`t know any of the people listening to my phone calls, I won`t be embarrassed. I`m just another voice to them, as they would be to me."
Now, consider. You accidentally overhear a conversation on a train, between two men talking about masturbating with a toothbrush shoved down their urethras. Guess what? Their secrets out.
We`re unconstant surveillance from EVERYWHERE, and not always from the f*cking GOVERNMENT, dumbass.
If you have a secret, there are just as many perverts and freaks the could find it, and WOULD use it for blackmail, as there are government agents who would hear it and forget it amongst the sea of other things they heard that sound pretty much the f*cking same.
On the contrary, what you have to hide is your private life. Where you go, what you do. And of course, it`s not like this sort of security would be unintrusive. Freedoms would need to be sacrificed. Imagine airport security, applied to an entire country.
And you have no doubt whatsoever that a hypothetical Big Brother state will allow you to be armed and therefore a potential threat?
It`s happened with the US, it`s happened with England, it`s happened with France... most of the west I suppose.
If you don`t let yourself have anything to hide, then you don`t need to worry.
Besides, it`s not like the government has either the time or the money to moniter each and every single one of the millions of people in this country divided over so much space and using so many phone and internet lines as we do."
So, you have nothing to hide? Your sex life, when you take a poo, masturbate, have uncomfortable moments, traumatic experiences? etc. That is all just an open book to the world now?
Please, shut the f*ck up. You have no idea what you are talking about.
Plus, the government doesn`t need people to monitor everyone. They just need a COMPUTER. Picking up keywords [and any keyword they want] and thus they can filter out conversations. Of course this can be used incorrectly and done to blackmail, sabotage, or otherwise undermine a person.
It`s just wrong.
You have a HELL of a lot more freedom than some people in this world, and do you know why that is?
Because there are people protecting that freedom.
Without those people, you know where you could be right now? As someone`s slave in a basement, or a whorehouse somewhere. Chained to a wall, just waiting to see what slop your master feeds you next.
So just shut the hell up and get over your bitchy little problems.
Besides, it`s not like the government has either the time or the money to moniter each and every single one of the millions of people in this country divided over so much space and using so many phone and internet lines as we do.
If you don`t want to be treated like a criminal, then just jump through a few hoops and DON`T BE A DAMN CRIMINAL.
That`s the biggest reason surveilance, etc., is going up. Because there ARE so many freaks and criminals in this world. It`s just a MASSIVE case of "the few ruin it for the many."
We have no freedom.PATHETIC.OVERIT.
I`ve got nothing to hide, but that doesn`t mean I want complete strangers searching me anyway. This whole system of security implies that every citizen is a possible criminal or terrorist, and that idea will destroy Western civilization in a few decades.
Let`s not tie our government`s hands as it tries to prevent another 9/11.
Get over it.
It would be all good if the authority was really that angelic
Revolutionist groups against the oppressive government start idealistic, gain power, take over the state, become the leaders, and turn into the oppressive government.
And there is ALWAYS something wrong with "the system".
Also, I found the part with surveillance on the phone/email thing pretty amusing.
It didn`t. Oh well. I guess I`ll just have to deal with feeling free the rest of my life instead of having to feel like I`m oppressed all the time and take down the government through some violent revolution.@ SPrinkZ, I think what warmst was saying was that we can still, say, go for a walk in the park on a nice summer day, choose to eat at a restaurant because, well, just because. He`s not justifying oppression, he`s saying that it does not exist to the extent that this video portrays, and if it does, who cares? You would have been none the wiser without watching this video, ignorance is bliss, and would have lived your life as you like, without the government stopping you. And they don`t execute all criminals, just murderers, and I don`t think that`s going to change anytime soon. People won`t allow it. But right now it really just isn`t a pro
In one extreme, you have the ability to do as you please. Ultimate freedom. Ultimate anarchy. Rape/Murder/Steal/Pillage etc.
What you end up with is a world where you don`t have actual freedom. Can you go outside? Cinemas? Shopping? Your movements are more restricted in an Anarchy than in the actual Big Brother society in the book 1984.
You need a balance of controls and freedoms that maximize your total freedom, and your ability to live your life free from both government and criminal elements.
This is not all or nothing.
(With regard to guns, you cannot fight a government with the guns they allow you to have. You need tanks quite frankly. You have no chance in hell of rising up against the US military with the peashooters you`re allowed to have).
Nobody here has been oppressed by their government (outside of public schools)You cannot keep the truth from people, they will always find a way to get it.
And yes dildog she was peeing in his mouth
I can`t make any sense of what you just said. I mean, I can try, but it sounds like you`re justifying oppression, and the abolishment of personal liberty because people can now become CRIMINALS and continue expressing their liberties.
That`s all good, but you forgot that they execute criminals. Do you really want to live in a world where to say what`s on your mind might mean death, or imprisonment?
There are more pitfalls to it than there are benefits.
If you read books that have entertained the idea of a big brother society, or read/watched stories that have scrutinized and analyzed the idea. If you`ve read your history and know your politics, then you would know that it`s people exactly like you who turn over their power to those in authority, who then turn around and take away enormous amounts of freedom in the name of the "greater good". It`s not one person trying to become dictator, its the citizens, the people in a democratic society who hand in their freedom for security. I, personally, would much prefer less security for my independence and freedom. Its much less dangerous than the alternative.
The age of being anonymous was brief, but happy. From about, oh, 1964 to the late 1980`s... Otherwise, people historically have been under intense scrutiny from their neighbors, the church, etc.
My reaction? So what. They want to know about me, I`ll just moon `em via computer.
Not really. He did, however, hint at the possibility of private companies or the government controlling or at least restricting what the people can see. Censorship`s a pretty big deal for a lot of people.
And it`s ironic how after "implying" that the government will somehow access all my private pictures, they then go on to say that governments are using fear to justify what they say... Of course governments like to play with citizen`s fear, but this video does it too.
Come back home, catbarf. I-A-B needs you. Come home.
What about private companies being able to determine what you can or cannot see? Or the restriction of liberties that come along with increased security?
Have you been to an airport recently?
The usual tagline is that if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear. Of course, should you apply the same mentality to our virtuous, honest, up-front politicians, you will be met with either a palm over your camera or an arrest.