UPDATE: Atheist Sign Stolen And Dumped In A Ditch

Submitted by: DannyDanko 8 years ago in
http://www.cnn.com/2008/LIVING/12/05/atheists.christmas/index.html

Remember the ""Atheist Sign On The Nativity Scene"" thread from yesterday? The Christians got pissed.
There are 332 comments:
Male 6
im fine with religon except sciencetology lol
0
Reply
Female 189
I say oppose us Christians I mean do it in a more constructive non judgmental way. Not all Christians are "loonies" and just because we believe in something that doesn`t have evidence to everyone one of existing doesn`t mean that it doesn`t. Sometimes I think we just need to remember that we are all people and seriously if everyone treated others the way they would like to be treated, things would look up instantaneously.
0
Reply
Female 325
There should be someone out there speaking out against all the loonies and their Magical, Invisible Friend God. I don`t see the problem but damn, Christians hate it when you oppose them, don`t they?
0
Reply
Male 244
Stolen? Wouldn`t that be against one of those commandment things?
0
Reply
Male 871
All arguements about the bible are invalid as its not fit for toilet paper its a White anglo saxon take on a period of history about 6 or 7 hundred years after it happened.
0
Reply
Male 1,360
ok the atheists are trying to stir up some trouble... I mean, honestly, I`m about as far from christian as one would get, but to be fair, i have to take their side on this...
I know all religions attack all other religions but being that atheists don`t have the burden of having a book or ancient set of laws to adhere to, couldn`t they have just taken the higher road?
0
Reply
Male 2,553
bob, the 8th rule is the override rule to what Jesus accepted that hes gonna die.
0
Reply
Male 2,313
Admittedly that`s a hard link to refute though. ;) Maybe I`ll pick through it after work.
0
Reply
Male 2,313
Really, that video takes random quotes, simplifies them down to moronic levels, then tries to pass them off as things they`re not.
0
Reply
Male 4,290
Actually, the Bible gives 8. You can see them here.


Now I REALLY need to study for my exams, so until the next religion thread :D

0
Reply
Male 2,313
Adios Bob, see you at the next religious debate.
0
Reply
Male 2,313
Jesus never said "follow them or you won`t get into heaven, end of story". There is not a long list of requirements to go to Heaven. In fact, the Bible gives only two, to accept Jesus into your heart and love both God and your fellow man. To quote the site, "If we meet these two requirements, whatever our religious affiliation is, we can enter the kingdom of God in Heaven. Religion is not a guarantee for one`s entry to Heaven."
0
Reply
Male 4,290
Anyway much as I`d love to continue, I have to go to bed. It`s been fun sixclaws. Goodnight :)
0
Reply
Male 4,290
Yeah the website may have been a little over-the-top (anyone who believes Dubya is wonderful is a bit weird), but they have scripture references to back up their beliefs.

Your quote obviously contradicts their quotes, which just shows again that the Bible constantly contradicts itself. How can we be expected to believe it was inspired by a perfect being?


We don`t know what Jesus` motive for saying this was, all we know is he said "Follow the OT laws". No reasonable person could possibly hope to follow those laws, there are around 400 of them and they`re insane.

Which means no-one is getting into heaven. Jesus doesn`t say "try your best to follow them, but if you can`t it`s OK as long as you`re sorry". He says "follow them or you won`t get into heaven, end of story".

0
Reply
Male 2,313
I`m going to go out on a limb and suggest that the website you linked might be a little bit on the extreme side, due to the "God Hates (insert anyone here)" plastered across the page and the links like "Our Wonderful President Bush". Your logic of God hates sinners is seriously twisted, all of us are sinners, but God loves us as such. As far as Jesus telling us to follow the Old Testament Laws, Christians even now use his sacrifice as an excuse to live as sinfully as they please. They use the logic that all you have to do to go to Heaven is believe in him and repent to justify their corrupt ways. Jesus was speaking against this when he warned us that he did not come to abolish the old laws, but to uphold them.
0
Reply
Male 4,290
"No, it`s not. No where in the Bible does it say God hates homosexuals. Try and find the verse, it`s not there."

Well we all know the verse about homosexuality, and this fun-filled Christian website details the parts of the Bible that illustrate that God hates the sinner as well as the sin.

God hates sinner + homosexuality is a sin -> God hates homosexuals.

"No, I don`t, because I follow (or try my best to) the teachings of Christ. You know, the guy who preached non-violence, forgiveness and compassion?"

No, you only follow part of his teachings. I just quoted you the part where he basically says "Follow the OT laws and be like a Pharisee". The Pharisees followed all the laws in the OT. Jesus says to do that as well.


The obvious problem here is that Jesus is contradicting himself, something else that happens a lot in

0
Reply
Male 2,313
"They would say the same thing about your creed, and every other one but their own. Just because you interpret the Bible differently, all other interpretations are invalid? To quote you, "Egotistical much?""

I didn`t say other interpretations are wrong, I said making your own interpretations law and using them to give yourself power is wrong.

0
Reply
Male 2,313
""And the Westboro Baptists do not, by any sense of the word, follow the teachings of Christianity."

Yeah they do. Their whole "God hates fags" campaign is what it says in the Bible, no matter how much you try to dress it up."

No, it`s not. No where in the Bible does it say God hates homosexuals. Try and find the verse, it`s not there.

"So sixclaws, do you stone to death those who work on the Sabbath? Do you execute rebellious teenagers?

If not, I`ll save you a seat next to me, Darwin and Ghengis Khan :)"

No, I don`t, because I follow (or try my best to) the teachings of Christ. You know, the guy who preached non-violence, forgiveness and compassion?

0
Reply
Male 4,290
" Putting up a sign that says "Winter solstice" is one thing...but one that bashes all religion is different."


It`s an expression of what the sign-makers believe. How many times have you heard people talk about religious belief as if it were fact? They can state their own beliefs in the same way. Basically it boils down to:

"All religions are a waste of time" - Atheists

vs

"Any religion except my religion is a waste of time" - Christians/Jews/Muslims/Scientologists/whatever

0
Reply
Male 4,290
Jesus specifically says in Matthew 5:17-20 that all the old laws still apply, and that unless you are as righteous as a Pharisee you won`t enter heaven.

So sixclaws, do you stone to death those who work on the Sabbath? Do you execute rebellious teenagers?

If not, I`ll save you a seat next to me, Darwin and Ghengis Khan :)

0
Reply
Female 111
the problem with that sign is that its not just against christianity...its telling anyone that believes in any type of religion that they are wasting their time on something that isn`t true. The nativity scene isn`t telling anyone else they are wrong, its just celebrating their own beliefs. Putting up a sign that says "Winter solstice" is one thing...but one that bashes all religion is different.
0
Reply
Male 4,290
"I wasn`t suggesting that you follow any particular creed, just that you do not follow Catholicism, as they are famous for warping the scriptures at whim. They formed councils and voted their interpretations of the Gospel into law, using them to grant abominations like papal infallibility along the way."

They would say the same thing about your creed, and every other one but their own. Just because you interpret the Bible differently, all other interpretations are invalid? To quote you, "Egotistical much?"


"And the Westboro Baptists do not, by any sense of the word, follow the teachings of Christianity."

Yeah they do. Their whole "God hates fags" campaign is what it says in the Bible, no matter how much you try to dress it up. All they`re doing is trying to spread the word, like all Christians are supposed to. It`s just that their approach makes it clear how despicable some of the Christian beliefs really are.

0
Reply
Male 2,313
And the Westboro Baptists do not, by any sense of the word, follow the teachings of Christianity.
0
Reply
Male 2,313
"Why should I follow your creed instead of theirs? If anything, they seem to stick to the Bible more closely than any other group I know of (except the Westboro Baptist Church of course)."

I wasn`t suggesting that you follow any particular creed, just that you do not follow Catholicism, as they are famous for warping the scriptures at whim. They formed councils and voted their interpretations of the Gospel into law, using them to grant abominations like papal infallibility along the way.

0
Reply
Male 2,245
exactly, i`ve been thinking a lot about these debates and you need to realize that you need God in order to understand religion. maybe i`m wrong and i`m just limiting my potential by being dependent on some make believe deity, but i don`t think so. i look at the world and myself and thank God for his existence every day.
0
Reply
Male 4,290
"hell is not a threat to do good, its simply eternity without God."

That sounds fine then, I get by perfectly well just now without God. I don`t see what the fuss is. No fire and brimstone? Sounds good to me.

0
Reply
Male 2,245
almightybob, you should consider heaven as something much more than a place where you go chill with people, its going back to God. when i was younger and my sunday school teacher told me that i was going to live forever in heaven if i believed in jesus, that concept of eternity scared the sh*t out of me. i believe that you cease to exist as an individual and are perfectly with God. and hell is not a threat to do good, its simply eternity without God.
0
Reply
Male 4,290
"Please stop listening to Catholics."

Why should I follow your creed instead of theirs? If anything, they seem to stick to the Bible more closely than any other group I know of (except the Westboro Baptist Church of course).

0
Reply
Male 4,290
"I found the part about my faith making me a brainwashed slave mildly derogatory."

I find the inherent threat in religious icons of eternal torture quite insulting too. Shall we ban them all?

0
Reply
Male 4,290
"Ahh, the old "who wants to play harps for eternity" argument. Perhaps you should look beyond the fluffy clouds and angel choirs version of heaven."


No, I was saying that I would prefer the company. The people I mentioned would all be very interesting to meet. I`d get sick of hanging around do-gooders for too long, just like I get sick of hanging around them for too long on Earth.

If there was a heaven, of course.

0
Reply
Male 134
I both pity and envy the religious. I pity thier ignorance, stupidity and hypocrisy. Still, I envy the comfort they have for thinking they are immortal.
0
Reply
Male 92
dang cutoffs...

the summary is that God wants us to always look towards Him for anything whether it be advice or thanks for something...

0
Reply
Male 92
*(cont) doesnt want, He just wants all the people to look to Him when they are in need.

now with the "give me some proof" stuff...
really? you want proof? i dont understand why the majority of the world are always asking for proof of something... its just how it is...

to the people saying you guys are sinning, you are going against God!
you can honestly say you have NEVER sinned in your life? if you said yes... you just sinned. but even if you sinned, God doesnt have something like santa clauses checklist, scribbling down every little sin you committed.

there is alot more i would like to say, but i know im not gona convert anyone, i just wanted to get some things off my chest through this debate... and anyways, a 14 year old like me cant sit here trying to convert someone when finals are just around the corner...

God Bless...

0
Reply
Male 92
wow...
before i back up my fellow christians i just wanna say that i still respect everybodies opinions... ill probably have myself quoted and having someone say something about me, but dont bother, this is my one and only post... unless i run out of room...

i believe in God, many people say they can "feel his presence" and many people laugh at that. i could honestly say that when i pray to God, im not talking to myself.

and to the "your christians are breaking the 10 commandments by blahblahblah"... if God wanted us to be perfectly peaceful without any sin whatsoever... he would of invented robots, but NO, he gives us free will to be human.

also, im suprised nobody brought this up yet but with a common "why did God create pain?" ok... you probably know the commandment that you can only worship Him, and not other gods right? He said Himself that He is a jealous God, which that if we felt no pain, and the world was at complete peace, then nobody wo

0
Reply
Male 2,245
"Amaq, are you high again?"

i still stand by my statement

0
Reply
Male 108
You don`t see a conflict between those two sentences?
0
Reply
Female 447
I can imagine if you put this sign up in some countries you would be killed. I think the people who wrote this sign are the ones with hardened hearts.
0
Reply
Female 917
A Nativity scene is not telling you to bow down to Christ or go to Hell... I would totally understand if someone tore down the Nativity scene if it had a sign on it saying "BOW DOWN TO CHRIST OR GO TO HELL!" but it didn`t.

Them, on the other hand, saying "Religion is a myth that hardens hearts and enslaves mind" is totally asking for someone to destroy your sign. Did they think that people who had religion wouldn`t feel offended by it?

My thing is that just don`t go around telling other people their beliefs are wrong. It`s not right. You can argue about religion for days, and the fact is that you won`t change anyone`s mind about anything. That sign was insulting more than just Christians. If you count everyone from every different religion, then you would have more religious people then non-religious people.

0
Reply
Male 2,313
I might possibly suggest that if my posts are so unbearable to read, perhaps you could learn to not read them. I`m sure if you tried really hard, you could figure out how. Also, I like how when you disagree with what I say instead of refuting my statements you type absurd insults.
0
Reply
Male 2,796
So, back to the Holocaust issue. I think we need to discuss the fact that the only people who deserved to have a sign there are the Jews for their sacrifices at places like Auswitz and Berkinow. Maybe Six has something to say?

lol

0
Reply
Male 10,440
Sixclaws your posts are the world`s greatest proof of reincarnation; no one could get that dumb in just one lifetime. Your ineffective imitation of even a poor argument only serves to illuminate your lack of substance, good taste, and decency.

If brains were dynamite, you wouldn`t have enough to blow the kneecap off a flea. If ignorance were a disability, you`d get the full pension. You`ve got a big hole in your head, now shut it. When you are at a loss for words, your loss is our gain. As Abba Eban so aptly said: "His ignorance is encyclopedic."

You have that certain nothing. Truly, you are about as interesting as watching a slug move slowly across a large rock. I`d get more pleasure from running my nostrils down a cactus, than reading another contribution from you. Maybe you wouldn`t come across as such a jellyfish-sucking mental midget if you didn`t lack even the dim flicker of sentience needed to qualify as a imbecile.

0
Reply
Male 2,313
Wow, I`m finally caught up. Did that really take four hours?
0
Reply
Male 17,512
Saklas: a Nihilist like you wouldn`t believe in God if he came down, Tapped you on the shoulder, and said Hi.

You`d chalk it up to a hallucination or some fundamentalist conspirators using holograms to try and deceive you.

0
Reply
Female 1,984
"Actually, that sign isn`t the truth. There IS a God, and Jesus WAS his son."

What`s your evidence?

0
Reply
Male 2,313
"Six... I am offended. You seemed to have quoted everyone but me? Would it have been too subjective, emmotional and reactive for you to do so?"

Here you go.

0
Reply
Male 2,313
"I love it when certain tools shut a whole drating thread down by going on and on about their entire drating lives and belief system.

It`s pretty sad."

I`m sitting here with my girlfriend and her dad while they watch some movie I am not interested in. I`m bored out of my mind and I have nothing better to do than go through this thread and pick out the comments I feel like responding to. My comments wouldn`t be so condensed if I had been able to be on here earlier today.

0
Reply
Female 1,984
"They say that it never meant to attack anyone... Umm of course people are going to get pissed off. It offends their religion."

Religion deserves no special right to NOT be offended.

0
Reply
Male 2,313
"Hey sixclaws, stop thumpin your bible for a minute and leave people entitled to their on opinions alone."

By leave them alone do you mean don`t reply to them? Because it`s kind of hard to have a debate that way.

0
Reply
Male 10,440
I`ve got an AWESOME idea. How about you throw the nativity scene in the ditch! Thats what I`d do - at night of course. Its not like tax payer money should go to any sort of religious purpose. Also, who is this deranged moron raping the channel?

Where are the mods when you need them?

0
Reply
Male 2,313
"every time your prayers go unanswered it is proven wrong."

So you think God should be our personal butler? Egotistical much?

0
Reply
Male 2,313
"we`d love to not have anyting to do with you guys, but unfortunatly your religion is full of crusades and inquisitions and the foundation of your relgion is full of rape and murder of people like us"

When was the last time you were attacked in a Crusade?

0
Reply
Male 2,796
BTW

Six... I am offended. You seemed to have quoted everyone but me? Would it have been too subjective, emmotional and reactive for you to do so?

0
Reply
Male 2,796
I love it when certain tools shut a whole drating thread down by going on and on about their entire drating lives and belief system.

It`s pretty sad.

0
Reply
Male 2,313
"MyOwnPhantom

I think that, all in all, this sight should not be used as a battleground for our viewpoints.
It seems that my words here will not change your beliefs.
And I know that yours will not change mine."

I like your style.

0
Reply
Male 2,313
"according to my understanding, if you commit a sin before death and don`t repent, you`ll go to hell. That`s what all the Catholic priests told me when I was young anyway."

Please stop listening to Catholics.

0
Reply
Male 2,313
"Please quote the line on the plaque that is a derogatory comment to another human being."

I found the part about my faith making me a brainwashed slave mildly derogatory.

0
Reply
Male 2,313
"TBH Hell sounds more fun anyway. Who wants to be cooped up for all eternity with a bunch of pious, smug God-botherers?

I`ll get to hang out with cool, interesting people like Einstein, Genghis Khan, Darwin, Julius Caesar and Tutankhamun. It`ll be awesome."

Ahh, the old "who wants to play harps for eternity" argument. Perhaps you should look beyond the fluffy clouds and angel choirs version of heaven.

0
Reply
Male 2,313
"oh, and Amaq, i did "search" for god. dont act like you know me. i just didnt feel the need to go into detail, but since you insist, from the time i was 5, i prayed 3 times a day, and had little else on my mind besides my "salvation".
i`ve even talked to numerous preists, and religious scholars in my life.
it all came back to "you must have faith"
never once was i given somegood, hard proof. "

Scheduling your prayer time shows a huge misunderstanding about how your relationship with God works. You can`t barter your way into grace. You know why they say you must have faith? Because it`s true. Those who`ve felt grace know that one moment is more convincing evidence than any argument the secular world can make.

0
Reply
Male 5,194
vv Trolled hard, lol.
0
Reply
Male 2,313
"what im against is ppl faking that they "feel" something so they arent outcasts"

I am an outcast in my group of friends. I am a Christian. All of my friends are atheists or agnostic. My girlfriend is agnostic. I`m not sure what my family is, but I`d guess most of them are agnostic. My point is that if I were into religion to fit in, being an atheist would have been a better choice.

"oh, and there is no "god".
that one pisses me off, too.
simple logical puzzle can prove the idea of "god" to be impossible:
"can god make a metal bar that is so strong that he himself cannot bend it?"

That`s the stupidest thing I have ever read. Seriously.

0
Reply
Male 2,313
"The point is that you don`t typically see scientists abusing scientific research, but rather other people not directly related to it. On the other hand, inquisitors and popes and bishops have perennially been *directly* associated with instigating torture and censorship and murder. Do you not see a difference?"

I would like to argue that those inquisitors, popes and bishops were in all likelihood not even true believers. If they truly believed the message in the Gospel, they would have realized granting yourself infallibility goes against the very core of Christs message. I tend to think they were non-believers who saw the massive abuse potential for religion and took advantage.

0
Reply
Male 2,313
" i gave up on christianity before i was 10..
read the whole bible several times first"

You read the Bible several times before you were ten?

0
Reply
Male 2,313
"Scientific research that has obeyed ethical standards has not been harmful in and of itself. The technological advances which science has yielded have been usurped by evil regimes to inflict greater harm, but is that the scientists` fault? Are we to deny ourselves scientific investigation into the world around us simply because what we might discover could be used against humanity by the criminally insane? Please excuse the rest of society while we promptly leave you in the Dark Ages."

Kind of like how Christianity that is used as it is supposed to be has never harmed a single person, but when used by power hungry leaders it is corrupted and twisted to be a tool for evil? Am I to abandon my faith simply because it has been corrupted by man?

0
Reply
Male 2,313
"you guys have TOTALLY whored out your most sacred of holidays to capitalist greed."

Yup, it was us Christians who capitalized Christmas. Not the secular corporations or the government that encourages such business, but us.

"or maybe I should be mad, since your religions (ya, i throw em all in together) have caused more death, persecution, torture, famine,and WARS than the next three causes put together."

You know very well 90% of the wars fought in the name of religion are really for land, power or wealth. Religion is just a convenient way to mask your intent with a higher purpose and rally people to your side, and if you can`t see that you`re being wilfully dense.

0
Reply
Male 5
Hey sixclaws, stop thumpin your bible for a minute and leave people entitled to their on opinions alone. Or better yet give us all hard proof god exists other than an old book of fables and we`ll shut up. Oh what`s that, you can`t?
0
Reply
Male 2,313
"its funny how a sign stating TRUTH is considered offensive."

Actually, that sign isn`t the truth. There IS a God, and Jesus WAS his son. Atheists always express their views by saying things like, "There is no God. End of story." I generally try and avoid being so blunt, as it makes you look like a dumbass/prick, but I figured I`d try it now.

"im offended by capitalmas as a whole."

Don`t celebrate it. Pretty f*cking simple.

0
Reply
Male 2,313
(cont) Don`t you find the sheer number of faithful in this world the least bit unsettling? If there were absolutely no evidence of something beyond this life, don`t you think there would be far more secular in this world? If there wasn`t something more than the ancient texts to support their own claims, wouldn`t the vast majority of reasonable people born into a faith become apostates? You can explain this in uncivilized places by the fear of being punished, of course, but in most of the world faithful abound, by their own choice. In smaller numbers I could see this explained by nostalgia for unconditional childhood belief or desire to be a part of something more, but the numbers alone make that hard for me to believe.
0
Reply
Male 2,313
"Religion is a threat to a sane way of life. Science is denied due to a fairy tale written by man 2000 years ago. An outlandish tale detailing how things came to be and why. It`s a story brainwashed into most children handed down over generations. It`s scientifically full of holes yet feeds an agenda that thrives on hate.
There are lots of things we don`t know today but we are millions of times more advanced in spite of the Bibles authors."

You really need to look at what you`re saying. You assume that all religious people are brainwashed and hateful. You assume we all deny science. You lump the billions of religious in this world into one group of misled sheep. You fail to take into account anyone outside of the mainstream, stereotypical version of organized religion. Have you ever considered that perhaps not every person who believes is simply being help captive by a fear of dying? (cont)

0
Reply
Male 650
one word

PWNT!

0
Reply
Male 2,313
"Religion is retarded."

Much less so than blanket statements.

0
Reply
Male 2,313
"BTW, (and this is off-topic, but it must be said) am I the only person that misses the good old days of IAB when one could log on after a long day at school and find at least a page worth of new posts every day?"

Not at all. I long for those days.

0
Reply
Male 2,313
"NOT ONLY would it have been absolutely impossible for Jesus to have survived at this time of year in a Middle-Eastern winter, BUT the celebration is actually, and I believe this has been said countless times, stolen from a Pagan ritual."

Are you suggesting that every baby born in the winter in the ancient Middle East died? Because that is just dumb. And yes, Christmas was tacked onto the celebration of the winter solstice in hopes of converting some pagans by allowing them to keep their traditional holidays. I really fail to see how this discredits the validity of Christianity whatsoever.

0
Reply
Male 2,313
:okay, gonna prove christianity wrong within, oh lets limit it to 5 lines after this one, GO.

God knows all, yes? god created Satan knowing he was going to introduce sin to man and betray god. thus god must have wanted there to be sin or he would not have made satan."

Satan didn`t introduce man to sin, we introduced ourselves to it during the fall of man. And as far as the argument that God made sin, he made us, and gave us free will. We use that free will to further our own selfish ways, leading to sin.

0
Reply
Male 2,313
"Fundie: 2+2=5
Me: You`re full of crap
Fundie: You`re attacking my beliefs!"

Me: I believe in God.
Atheist: You`re a brainwashed slave.
Me: No I`m not.
Atheist: They trained you to say that!

0
Reply
Male 2,313
"We need to dump religion so I won`t feel guilty about Killing Whoever the drat I want, Raping Whoever the drat I want and Stealing Whatever the drat I want. Hell if I don`t need to worry about ramifications, most all of our current legal system is based on biblical Bull poo anyhow.

Throw away all that lame do unto others disney land tripe like monogamy and puritanical crap like holidays."

What a convincing argument against religion you`ve made.

0
Reply
Male 2,313
Wow, this a lot of posts to read through.
0
Reply
Female 2,064
50 pound sign? Dang.
0
Reply
Male 17,512
skine: When Atheists beat Christians over the head (metaphorically) with their science books, I can and will use those same "tools" to refute them as well. Atheists try to cripple every Christian argument with "Show me the proof", So turn about is fair play. Science proves very little and leaves the rest up to pointed headed PHD`s that toss the Greek alphabet around like a chef salad to explain their philosophy. Then they try to stuff it down the rest of the world`s throat as fact (Until another one of them tosses the Greek salad around again). It`s almost like shaking a magic 8-ball around until you get your desired answer.
0
Reply
Male 264
They say that it never meant to attack anyone... Umm of course people are going to get pissed off. It offends their religion. If the sign just said the first sentence, then that would be fine. There was no need to go on about how there is nothing when you die.
0
Reply
Male 134
Yeah. Point taken, It was one of those `Realise how lame it sounded when you hit `reply`` jobs - meh =/
0
Reply
Male 7,933
"... Can someone say hi to Jesus for me when they next go to church? lmao."

Work on your jokes

0
Reply
Male 134
I respect religious people like Myrikal. They are open minded.

Now to stoke the fire in this topic a bit, it`s getting cold...

... Can someone say hi to Jesus for me when they next go to church? lmao.

0
Reply
Male 2,796
"physics is just calculus."

HEH? Isn`t that like saying billiards is just miniature golf?

0
Reply
Male 67
I am a Christian. I feel that every man or woman should be able to believe in whatever he or she chooses to. And if we can have a nativity scene in a public setting then the atheists have every right to have their sign up as well. What some Christians forget is that the greatest gift that God gave to all is the freedom to choose. We can abhor the act but we should never hate the person nor should we attack anyone who disagrees with our way of life. I personally believe that the Atheists are wrong but I would fight for their right to live how they choose just as passionately as I would fight for my own. It is the true Christian way. We uphold the freedom of ALL people not just those who agree with us.
0
Reply
Male 309
"Science is made up of theories, which are just educated guesses that have some evidence to back them up but never enough to warrant throwing out all other ideas"

except the only theories that are accepted, as you have said, have evidence to back them up, and when an example that proves the theory wrong comes along, the theory is forgotten, religion however has little to no evidence to back it up and every time your prayers go unanswered it is proven wrong.

0
Reply
Male 309
"we realy dont give a F**king crap what you do OR dont belive in. you can belive in nothing or the great sky spagetti monster WE DONT CARE!!!!! just STOP RUINING EVERYTHING FOR THE REST OF US!!!!! you yell its offending those who dont belive in blah blah blah, what about offending those of us who do? listen, just go your way and we`ll go ours instead of being a pain in the ass. if we are wrong well find out when we die. till then dont bug us for hedging our bets. BAH HUMBUG AND NO CHRISTMAS FOR YOU!"

we`d love to not have anyting to do with you guys, but unfortunatly your religion is full of crusades and inquisitions and the foundation of your relgion is full of rape and murder of people like us

0
Reply
Male 2,796
"Science is made up of theories, which are just educated guesses that have some evidence to back them up but never enough to warrant throwing out all other ideas." (by SkewedVision)

I have a theory that you can`t fly... ;et`s call it...ummm gravity! Yeah that sounds good. Now, go float away since it`s just a theory and all. Or is it God just holding us all down with invisible fingers?

0
Reply
Male 4,546
Altaru: If your tolerance relies on everyone in any given group to behave just as you`d like them to, you don`t really have any.
0
Reply
Male 3,482
Jinxie, if every Christian followed your thought process, this whole debate wouldn`t exist.

Unfortunately, there are still those "KILL THE NON-BELIEVERS, or at least force them to join," types in existence, and THAT`S who athiests are fighting back against.

0
Reply
Female 2,289
... It WAS in in preetty poor taste to put the sign RIGHT next to baby jesus....
0
Reply
Male 12,138
Amaq, are you high again?
0
Reply
Male 2,245
my point was that that argument is similar to the debate that we have every time a religious post comes up. physics is our existence and math is God.
0
Reply
Female 2,927
a message to the athiests from a "christian"

we realy dont give a F**king crap what you do OR dont belive in. you can belive in nothing or the great sky spagetti monster WE DONT CARE!!!!! just STOP RUINING EVERYTHING FOR THE REST OF US!!!!! you yell its offending those who dont belive in blah blah blah, what about offending those of us who do? listen, just go your way and we`ll go ours instead of being a pain in the ass. if we are wrong well find out when we die. till then dont bug us for hedging our bets. BAH HUMBUG AND NO CHRISTMAS FOR YOU!

0
Reply
Male 4,546
Amaq: It`s a definitions game.

Physics is governed by rules, those rules can be called math.

We have a system we`re derived from observation of physics, we can call that math.

In essence they`re the same thing, but they have different connotations to your question.

0
Reply
Male 2,245
what do you guys think, is physics governed by mathematics or is mathematics just an abstract thing we created to describe physics?
0
Reply
Female 1,963
The problem is, the nativity scene is a part of christianity, which doesn`t take away from atheists. It`s not saying that atheists are wrong, it`s just saying that this is what they believe in. The atheist sign was only there to say "religious people are wrong". I just can`t see why atheists can`t let Christians do what they want to. I`m an atheist, but I`m not bothered by seeing churches, nativity scenes etc. It`s what THEY believe in, and it doesn`t take away from my belief (or lack thereof).
0
Reply
Male 328
why was there an athiest sign/ nativity scene on the govenment property anyways?
0
Reply
Male 115
Well I noticed a few comments about the Atheist sign being an unneeded attack against Christianity. I say you`re not also seeing that it is only stretching it`s freedom of speech as much as the Christmas setup in that same spot. Both sides have the full and undeniable right to voice what they want but neither has the right to take down each others set up the way that was.
0
Reply
Male 438
im an atheist but thats just being a dick. let people decide for themselves
0
Reply
Female 1,963
I just think everybody should get to celebrate Christmas (or whatever) however they want to, without going out of their way to offend others. As an atheist myself, I think that atheist sign was over the top. Why do they insist on attacking Christianity, as opposed to just celebrating what they want to celebrate? I don`t get it. People should just leave each other alone.
0
Reply
Female 22
Apfelgras: "actually, I`m an ex atheist. So I guess sometimes, people really can be converted. :P"

Lol, ok, maybe sometimes you can convert people.

0
Reply
Male 2,245
the connection between physics and mathematics i think almost mirrors the debate going on here. but i`ve also always felt a similarity in my love for math and my religious feelings, perhaps its the perfection inherent to both of them.
0
Reply
Male 552
You guys are rediculous, just let christians be christians and muslims be muslims ffs, it`s really none of your business so quit trying to change lives. all this sign is really aiming for is starting problems, they know they won`t change anyone`s mind, they`ll just piss a bunch of people off and then whine to the law when they do something about it. Athiesm really has to be the most immature belief system I`ve ever known.
0
Reply
Female 19
pyrojen27 - actually, I`m an ex atheist. So I guess sometimes, people really can be converted. :P
0
Reply
Female 22
Sigh.

Everyone needs to shut the hell up about their respective religions. Practice it how you want, but shut up about it. No one really cares that you`re a Christian or an Atheist or that you worship the Flying Spaghetti Monster. You`re never going to convert anyone. You`ll never make anyone think any differently. Am I religious? I won`t tell you, because you don`t care. If everybody would just live and let live on the whole religion thing the world would be a much better place.

0
Reply
Male 4,546
I`d prefer a forum where I can lay out all my points at once in a structured manner.

As I`ve said before: It will summarize into being an argument about starting positions.

For example. What would it take for you to believe in God from an empirical standpoint? Your comment is unreasonable: Show me something that cannot be explained by natural means.

Again, I disagree that God is unnatural, but isn`t that just a way of saying "Show me something that cannot be explained by coincidence"?

If I tell you I asked god to make it rain and it did, only around me and nowhere else? Coincidence?
Fine, I agree.
Lets say you ask me to prove it to you, I do it again, and it works again. Coincidence?
Fine, maybe.

But when does it get to the point where you would change your mind? Is this before or after the point you`d expect God to stop being your personal plaything?

0
Reply
Male 2,245
motion is a slope of a line.
0
Reply
Male 4,546
I never made the statement that god is "unnatural" though.
You assume I believe in a God which interacts presently and through miracles, neither of which I find "necessary" although "possible" for God.
0
Reply
Male 2,245
"Not all things are governed by math - if anything, I would argue all things are governed by physics..."

physics is just calculus.

0
Reply
Male 2,605
"if you want to argue that, you could argue that all things are governed by math, so despite the fact that is seemingly conceptual it is intrinsic to everything."

Not all things are governed by math - if anything, I would argue all things are governed by physics and math is simply our language chosen to explain this. 1 + 1 does not equal 2 in the real world. There aren`t even such things as numbers in the real world. But if one rather vaguely insists that "numbers exist," then all math can be built from that foundation. There are established proofs, but they`re only proofs satisfying for us. The opinion that math is intrinsic to anything outside of our minds is an opinion, at best a logical fallacy. Practical, but it doesn`t follow.

"if God created us, would he not put some sort of concept in our heads...? would that not be our only link to really visualize him, like mathematics?"

I don`t know. You should ask *him* that.

0
Reply
Male 1,347
Are you referring to the atheists or the christians? cause they both do it. Neither party is innocent, and could be said that christians are less so
0
Reply
Male 2,245
"But once an atheist expresses his opinion about religion, everything suddenly drating changes."

if anything the atheist`s are being increasingly accepted in our society.

"Grow the drat up and respect other people`s beliefs, you don`t see us stealing Christian signs or filing complaints about them."

but you put up signs next to harmless nativity scenes that are only there to ridicule the God that these people believe in?

0
Reply
Male 6
I also find it funny that die hard Christians disobey the Ten Commandments in stealing this sign. Hell, they don`t even deserve to be capitalized in the english language. fu ck them
0
Reply
Male 1,204
you`re saying*

Then again, we`re all hypocrites.

0
Reply
Male 1,204
"
This is absolutely ridiculous. I`m atheist and i support that these people are trying to get their opinions out to society. However, it makes me drating sick to my stomach to see Christians take down the sign for the simple reason of they are caught up in their close-minded opinions. Christians feel that they have every right in the world to express their opinions about everything and anything, put up signs everywhere and hand out pamphlets. But once an atheist expresses his opinion about religion, everything suddenly drating changes. Seriously, people are actually filing complaints about this sign. Grow the drat up and respect other people`s beliefs, you don`t see us stealing Christian signs or filing complaints about them. You know why? Because we don`t give two poos what other people think about religion. We keep our beliefs to ourselves and we actually act mature."

The sign itself contradicts what you think about athiests, they`re just as hypocritical from what you

0
Reply
Male 6
This is absolutely ridiculous. I`m atheist and i support that these people are trying to get their opinions out to society. However, it makes me drating sick to my stomach to see Christians take down the sign for the simple reason of they are caught up in their close-minded opinions. Christians feel that they have every right in the world to express their opinions about everything and anything, put up signs everywhere and hand out pamphlets. But once an atheist expresses his opinion about religion, everything suddenly drating changes. Seriously, people are actually filing complaints about this sign. Grow the drat up and respect other people`s beliefs, you don`t see us stealing Christian signs or filing complaints about them. You know why? Because we don`t give two poos what other people think about religion. We keep our beliefs to ourselves and we actually act mature.
0
Reply
Male 1,204
"
"also, we can`t prove God, but you can`t prove whether two different points really constitute a line, so what`s up with that?"

By making that comparison (God and mathematics), you`re suggesting God is purely conceptual. Math doesn`t exist in the real world - it`s in our heads. However, if God actually existed outside our heads, there would be some objective evidence of such a being. There is none. Therefore it is reasonable for us to not believe in him or it."

Descartes would not concur with such a statement.
Then again, he`s such an old guy, I`m sure his statements are full of fallacies

Yet at the same time, if God created us, would he not put some sort of concept in our heads, something to think about? would that not be our only link to really visualize him, like mathematics?
Now that all depends on what you believe
dangit i gotta get outta here before i waste more of my time dangit why am i still here

0
Reply
Male 2,245
"By making that comparison (God and mathematics), you`re suggesting God is purely conceptual. Math doesn`t exist in the real world - it`s in our heads. However, if God actually existed outside our heads, there would be some objective evidence of such a being. There is none. Therefore it is reasonable for us to not believe in him or it."

if you want to argue that, you could argue that all things are governed by math, so despite the fact that is seemingly conceptual it is intrinsic to everything.

0
Reply
Male 2,605
"also, we can`t prove God, but you can`t prove whether two different points really constitute a line, so what`s up with that?"

By making that comparison (God and mathematics), you`re suggesting God is purely conceptual. Math doesn`t exist in the real world - it`s in our heads. However, if God actually existed outside our heads, there would be some objective evidence of such a being. There is none. Therefore it is reasonable for us to not believe in him or it.

0
Reply
Male 1,204
Ahh better not get myself in another mess I think I`ll step out before more things happen.
0
Reply
Male 1,204
Looks like the Christians retaliated. That evens out the "retarded scale" in this debate.


And I read about what half of Baalthazaq said, and I`ll jsut say whatever he said. Rather then debating a Christian God, I`ll stick with debating God in general for now.

also, we can`t prove God, but you can`t prove whether two different points really constitute a line, so what`s up with that?

0
Reply
Male 2,605
"Prove you exist to me."

It`s not the same and you know it. Stop being an ass.

0
Reply
Male 2,605
"And whatever happened to Thou Shalt Not Steal?"

The 10 Commandments can be bent. Don`t you know that?

"While I am sorry that those without Jesus Christ in their hearts are destined for dark things after their death..."

F*ck you, sir.

"...but the point is if you`re going to be a nihilist about it, there`s nothing anyone can do to even prove to you that *I* exist, let alone God."

Don`t be absurd. Your problem is that what you consider evidence, atheists do not. This is very common. Therefore it is hard for religious people to understand what kind of evidence an atheist is actually seeking, and in addition religious folks tend to think atheists as being stubborn or in denial or somesuch. Give me some account of something miraculous which is directly attributable to God and which is not explainable through some natural means.

0
Reply
Female 57
This is ridiculous. It bothers me that people would really try to ridicule other peoples` beliefs.
0
Reply
Male 4,546
Overmann:
I should probably apologize then. I`m not really very good at gauging an audience, I tend to argue with whoever makes the point first, then carry it on as if everyone knows what I`m talking about.

If I parody someone`s style (ALL CAPS MEANS I HAVE MORE TRUTH(TM) THAN YOU!), I always assume everyone will know what I`m doing, when I`m not necessarily doing it very well over teh internetz.

Having said that, I`d quite like to start a proper debate with you somewhere other than IAB, where I don`t have to keep up with the post speed.

0
Reply
Male 4,546
What the problem is, is not the conclusions people draw. It`s the place they start from.

If I view God as a simple entity of infinite power, and you view God as a bearded sky fairy, you can make the claim "extraordinary claims need extraordinary evidence" whereas my claim is not extraordinary.

You can argue that an open loop is more accurate than a closed loop when it comes to a world-view, but that actually is an opinion, and not demonstrated fact.

Things like that fundamentally change how evidence is viewed. If I start this argument, we`ll start with how an inductive leap is a leap of faith, and you won`t even know what I`m talking about when I use the word faith, or evidence.

0
Reply
Male 2,605
"Why shouldn`t we have to be given proof that God DOESN`T exist?"

This is really stupid. Do you need proof that leprechauns don`t exist in order to be persuaded from believing in them? If that`s the case, what is to stop you from believing in any x imaginary thing? That`s not how ordinary people evaluate the truth factor of a claim.

"Can such things be explained with science? This is an honest question."

Even if they can`t, how does it follow that "God did it" with no direct evidence? Even if such cases existed and science was at odds to explain them, this would still be no closer to proof of God.

"...but you have to realize that its our jobs as christians. I would much rather die with hope then die with nothing."

First sentence: No it`s not. You merely *believe* it is your job in indoctrinate others into your belief. Second sentence: I don`t feel I will die with nothing.

0
Reply
Male 2,605
"...but I think I might be unfairly lumping your arguments together because you seem to be defending his stance."

Defending his stance? It doesn`t seem very likely that I would defend the argument of someone who thought a good way to present it would be in capitalized words and poor grammatical construction. The thought makes me grimace. I think I deserve a bit more benefit than that.

1) 100 million is absurd, but religion is definitely directly responsible for a smaller number of deaths, yes.

2) Yes.

3) Evolution doesn`t operate siginifcantly on the level of timespan associated with human history or contemporary religion. That is why I suggested evolution operated on some derivative of religion, such as superstitious thinking. Indeed, religion offers "explanations" about nature at a much lower energy\thought cost to the individual, which, all things considered, may be more biologically efficient than striving for definite answers.

0
Reply
Male 719
Debating with a nihilist or with an atheist are not the same thing, except in the most extreme cases of atheism. Alright, we`ll debate whether you exist. What does it mean for you to exist, because without this definition, there is no point. I will claim that existence is sufficiently proven to me by verification of your physical presence. If I ran into you on the street, and you asked "Do I exist?" I would reply readily "Yes, yes you do." (Well, honestly I would reply by looking the other way and walking by, or asking what was wrong with you, seeing as existence was already proven and seemed obvious)
0
Reply
Female 1,984
You believe in Mickey Mouse or you go to Disney Hell! *puts on mouse ears with a serious face*
0
Reply
Male 719
To paraphrase what CrakrJack wrote: I dislike the study of the natural world because it it doesn`t lend itself to concrete answers. That is why religion is better.

Honestly, I don`t know why those who oppose atheism attack science. Science is just a tool. It`s a massively powerful tool which seeks to understand all that can be understood, but it`s just a tool. Do you ask your pencil what you should write about? Do you ask a calculator what the square root represents? I`ll assume, for the sake of sanity, that you answered no. Then why do you ask science to provide you a moral compass, or give you hope?

Please, do not stoop to arguing about the validity of science. Science argues its own validity constantly, and in this way comes closer to actual truth. Attacking science will not make your religion any more true or valid. The "you`re wrong, so I must be right" argument has no place in a rational debate.

0
Reply
Female 913
I don`t care what religion you are or non-religion, don`t try to force your beliefs on me. Whether it be Christian, Athiest, Wiccan, Judiasm, Buddhist, Muslim, Mickey Mouse or whatever... just go practice your own and leave me out of it.
0
Reply
Female 1,984
Baalthazaq, no he mixed up evolution with the Big Bang.

"You show me how to prove anything to a nihilist and I`ll prove God to you."

I never said 100% for any of those things. That would be epistemologically defeating. Were there a shred of evidence for god(s) most atheists would accept it immediately. There is none. This isn`t nihilism - as you so quaintly put it - it`s logical. You seem quite arrogant in your lack of debate. You defined who I am before knowing a thing about me and feel already that you`ve won when nothing`s started.

0
Reply
Female 178
Just be good for goodness sake
Why are people so extreme?
0
Reply
Male 907
God doesn`t exist. End of story and argument.
0
Reply
Male 4,546
And incidentally Bekll, no he didn`t confuse two theories at all. Just because you haven`t seen that definition on the simpsons, it`s perfectly accurate:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stellar_evo...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_e...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galaxy_form...
etc.


0
Reply
Male 4,546
Oooh goody, Bekll`s taking the bait.

"No. There is no credible, tangible, verifiable, irrefutable, concrete evidence to support the existence that there is a deity. To state otherwise is fail. There is evidence of you."


Really, completely irrefutable? I already said I could be nihilist about it. For all you know this is my alter ego on here. (i.e. Something else is causing me to type to you, this account could be one of many puppet accounts I`ve made, you may be dreaming, you may be drunk, you may be a brain floating in a tank and being fed hallucinogens by aliens. That doesn`t sound like verifiable irrefutable to me.

Let me summarise for you and save you some time. I`m going to go all the way down to "cogito ergo sum" before I let you try that flimsy crap.

It`s not nice, but that`s my point. You show me how to prove anything to a nihilist and I`ll prove God to you.

0
Reply
Female 18
It`s not Christians in general,
nor Atheists in general,
that pisses me off.

It`s the fundamentalists on both sides that do.

What people believe shouldn`t matter,
as long as they`re good unto others.

Why can`t people just be tolerant?

0
Reply
Female 19
Facepalm.
0
Reply
Female 1,984
Apfelgras, a note: Agnostics are atheist or theist.
0
Reply
Male 4,546
I think with the "Atheism is a religion" thing, he`s more or less asking how you`re different.

You know, less elitism?
Less preaching?
Less apologetics?
Less substantial wordplay?
Perhaps genuine tolerance for all people?
Lack of attacking other religions?

So far you`ve got better catchphrases and internet memes maybe..., but you gotta say that "WWJD" has got you beat there.

I personally think he`s suggesting that Atheists tend to act in every way shape and form like they were part of a religion.

That`s not really a bad thing. Maybe chill?

0
Reply
Female 1,984
"My main problem with Evolution, is that even if the entire universe came from one singularity, that had to come from somewhere."

Wow... you completely confused one scientific theory for another.

"You want to cry "show me the evidence", but the point is if you`re going to be a nihilist about it, there`s nothing anyone can do to even prove to you that *I* exist, let alone God. You require more proof of God than you do of me, not because of logic, not because of a conclusion you`ve drawn Bekll."

No. There is no credible, tangible, verifiable, irrefutable, concrete evidence to support the existence that there is a deity. To state otherwise is fail. There is evidence of you.

0
Reply
Female 19
Posts and posts and posts and posts and you refute one sentence....well done. :|

You know who I love? Intelligent theists. I also love intelligent atheists, and intelligent agnostics. We need more.

0
Reply
Female 1,984
"And yes, if the "Love" be a sin. Same with if someone "Loves" a Horse."

A horse can`t consent. Humans - regardless of sex of a person in the relationship - can.

0
Reply
Female 1,984
"This whole thing is funny-Atheism is, in itself, a religion"

Atheism is a religion like NOT collecting stamps is a hobby and bald is a hair color.

0
Reply
Male 4,546
And actually Dutch Skater, evolution can include everything, including the formation of planets etc. It`s just usually used in a biological sense.
0
Reply
Male 17,512
My problem with science is it tries to explain everything, from the infinitesimal to beyond the universe. They don`t answer the questions at all, They end up posing hundreds of more questions. Science is truly a never ending quest and they will never actually be able to prove all their theories. Science is a never ending treadmill.
Instead of being able to simply explain the universe they`ve came up with such a hugely complex equations that few people in the world can even understand it. Does that unify anyone ?
Does that give anyone hope ? Can that explain why most human beings, Since the beginning, Have a innate belief in the afterlife ?

Science is too inflexible. They claim that that which can`t be seen doesn`t exist, Yet they try to explain the unseen things in their science with guesses and horribly jumbled multi-dimensional calculus that maybe 1 or 2 people out of 100,000,000 could ever possibly understand.

0
Reply
Male 4,546
Let me put it another way. the following is not a reasonable challenge unless the other side is willing to ever accept your conclusion under any circumstances:

Prove you exist to me. The burden of proof is on you because you`re making the positive statement. I`ll sit here and deny everything forever irrespective of your arguments. Hell I won`t even pay attention to them, I`ll just occasionally log in and type "Why? Prove it!" and wait for you to run out of real-world examples and venture off into the "do any of us truly exist" questions then claim victory.

Come on, it`ll be fun. Right? You have the advantage in that it is not technically to prove *anything* from the ground up. That does not make you clever or right.

0
Reply
Male 4,546
Also, I`m done debating the existance of God in 900 characters or less. If you want a reasoned response, check out any of my 2000+ posts on the infidels.org archives from 2000 onwards.

Are you really expecting that I`d repeat myself for 7 years just for your personal benefit? I`ve explained the neccessity of evidence, I`ve asked countless times for any metric by which anyone would consider God proven. I`ve asked for what limit of evidence people require and have been given nothing, for years.

You want to cry "show me the evidence", but the point is if you`re going to be a nihilist about it, there`s nothing anyone can do to even prove to you that *I* exist, let alone God. You require more proof of God than you do of me, not because of logic, not because of a conclusion you`ve drawn Bekll.

You ask for more evidence because your STARTING position dictates that it requires it. That`s fail.

0
Reply
Male 7
"My main problem with Evolution, is that even if the entire universe came from one singularity, that had to come from somewhere."

you don`t know what you are talking about, evolution is about how creatures evolved on this planet.... not how the universe was formed.

0
Reply
Male 4,546
Wow. Bekll completely missed my point, what a surprise.

I`m sure she`ll also criticize the person I was parodying with that remark sometime soon even though he shares her view... waiting.....

0
Reply
Female 48
Its not worth getting into it here (unrelated to the topic), so it`s no longer worth my time to keep posting here. :)

Christians shouldn`t tell others what to believe, and it should be WAY away from government. Or all religions should be represented. That is all.

Have a great day, "Why believe in a God? Just be good for goodness sakes."

0
Reply
Male 352
My main problem with Evolution, is that even if the entire universe came from one singularity, that had to come from somewhere.
0
Reply
Male 17,512
madest: Once again you seem to take the extreme left position and call me a nutbag. Very predictable of you.
0
Reply
Female 48
"There have been numerous cases of evolution being allowed to be taught while creationism was being shut down as a subject, and the teacher who wanted to teach being ridiculed."
Creationism has *ZERO* scientific merit. Therefor, it doesn`t belong in a science class.
The basic theory of evolution has been confirmed so completely that most modern biologists consider evolution simply a fact. It is an incontrovertible fact that organisms have changed, or evolved, during the history of life on Earth. And biologists have identified and investigated mechanisms that can explain the major patterns of change.

"Oh, and if everything was legal, chaos would ensue."
We will see soon enough. Obama is pro-choice and has stated he will overturn any constitutional amendments against gay marriage. :) I doubt the world is going to end.

0
Reply
Male 512
Eh, to each his own beliefs.

However, here`s how I see it: If you believe, and follow God all your life, and at the end of your life there is no God, what have you lost? Nothing. But, if you do not believe and do not follow God, and at the end of your life there IS a God, what have you lost? Everything.

0
Reply
Male 16
I think that, all in all, this sight should not be used as a battleground for our viewpoints.
It seems that my words here will not change your beliefs.
And I know that yours will not change mine.
0
Reply
Male 352
Bekll:

You don`t love them as a human for the sake of it? Your morals come from a dusty old book?

And what`s to disagree with? Their ability to love? :

No, I was talking my beliefs as a Christian, I never said anything about not loving them as a human. And a lot of my morals do come from this "Dusty old book", because there aren`t a lot of human morals out there today.

And yes, if the "Love" be a sin. Same with if someone "Loves" a Horse.

0
Reply
Male 16
I wasn`t talking about the person who took sign, I was talking about the sign that the Atheist group put up. I meant to say that I was never implying that the sign was an attempt to censor the nativity scene.
And, yes, they do have a view. Even if that view`s not having a view, that in and of itself is a view. The choice of non-belief. A belief in non-belief.
And while there might not be atheist "symbols" around, there are atheistiv viewpoints, such as the teaching of evolution. There have been numerous cases of evolution being allowed to be taught while creationism was being shut down as a subject, and the teacher who wanted to teach being ridiculed.
I`m not saying that there shouldn`t be atheist "views" anywhere, i`m just saying that we should all be allowed to state what we will without attempting to censor out what someone else chooses to also say.
Oh, and if everything was legal, chaos would ensue.
0
Reply
Male 13,630
*Shakes head*
religion always fires em up,
Me, I like the Easter bunny, lot less hassle with the Easter bunny
0
Reply
Male 352
* Last action was a sin. I was under character limit darn it!
0
Reply
Male 352
almightybob1:

Yes, it`s totally as simple as that, because it`s not like the inner workings of our beliefs are any more complicated than that.

First of all, it`s impossible for anyone to live and entire life with no sin. If you say you haven`t, you`re lying, which is a sin, so bam, there goes that.

Now, Let`s say it IS possible for me to not sin my entire life, except once right before I Die. Now, stealing a cookie right before my death =/= an entire lifetime of Sin. As I said, the second you sin, God isn`t going to strike you with lightning, ho just would that be? that`s like ground your kid for a year after beating him for taking a cookie.

So I steal the cookie and die. I`m going to assume I`m a Christian, since if I`m not, I haven`t been sinless my whole life. I don`t go to Hell, because God is a just God, and that would be completely Bogus. So what`s my punishment? Could be a number of things, maybe I didn`t tell my Mom I loved her, maybe everyone knowing my last action was

0
Reply
Male 129
This whole thing is funny-Atheism is, in itself, a religion. After all, the basic of a religion is one`s beliefs in the world around us, and the prospects of the afterlife. An atheist lust believes it is natural and there is no afterlife-but it is still a religion, because it is still based on no more than belief and faith. It takes a greater faith to believe in an unproven, unproable theory like evolution, be it stellar evolution, (big bang) or biological-the only evolution that can be observed is micro evolution-the rest it theory and faith. Thus, religion.
0
Reply
Female 1,984
"I may not Agree with Homosexuals, but I still love them as a Christian,"

You don`t love them as a human for the sake of it? Your morals come from a dusty old book?

And what`s to disagree with? Their ability to love?

0
Reply
Female 48
"Did I ever say that they DID try to censor it?"
They did censor it. Hence what the last statement I commented on implied.

"However, in schools, courtrooms, all over, the ten commandments and nativity scenes are being taken down by force and legally much more then atheistic views are."
One, atheists don`t have a "view". It`s a lack of said view, and there are *no* atheist symbols in schools, courtrooms, etc.
Two, I believe all religions should be represented, or none should, so I agree with what government does. You can`t force a Buddhist to obey christian law, or jews, or atheists, just because they come to America. They should only have to obey American *law*. The lines between separation of church and state are so blurred here, it`s wrong. Keep religion out of law. All religion. Jewish, Christian, Buddhist, Atheist. Abortions, gay marriage, everything would be legal without religion butting in.

0
Reply
Female 1,984
--"Ridiculous beliefs are meant to be ridiculed."
Can you prove such religion is ridiculous? Any concrete proof that denies their god`s existence?--

Your statement is to be ridiculed as you don`t realize that the POSITIVE claim is what needs the evidence.

0
Reply
Male 16
"If you put two ideas side by side, is that censorship? That`s all that they did. If you see one side, you should be able to see the other. They did not place it in front of the nativity scene to block it out. They didn`t throw the nativity scene into a lake or whatever. THAT is censorship. "

Did I ever say that they DID try to censor it?
No.
However, in schools, courtrooms, all over, the ten commandments and nativity scenes are being taken down by force and legally much more then atheistic views are.
I ALSO stated that I did NOT like that someone did steal the sign.
I didn`t like the sign, but I still believe they have the right to exspress their viewpoint.
Let the people decide which side of the room to look at.

0
Reply
Male 352
I may not Agree with Homosexuals, but I still love them as a Christian, and do not in any way wish they were dead. do I want them to change? Yes, but being killed isn`t the change I had in mind.

Same with Atheists, Muslims, and everyone else. I don`t agree with them, but I still love and respect them.

Christianity isn`t a big "Shove my beliefs so far down your throat they come out your butt" contest. It`s the belief that we should love our fellow man, and share the truth with him, in fear that he could go to Hell.

I don`t want ANYONE to go to Hell. I mean, if you had a cure for Cancer, wouldn`t you do your best to get it our there? As a true, honest to God Christian, you`re supposed not only ensure you get to heaven, but ensure as many others as possible do. Not because you need to be right no matter what, but because you love them, and don`t want them to go to hell.

0
Reply
Female 1,984
"Oh by the way, GOD DOES EXIST."

Zero evidence = FAIL.

0
Reply
Male 4,290
Kikayoaka - according to my understanding, if you commit a sin before death and don`t repent, you`ll go to hell. That`s what all the Catholic priests told me when I was young anyway.

To use your analogy, that would be like a child growing up with no sins, then taking a single cookie right before dying. The person died without repenting. Should his punishment be endless torture (i.e. Hell)?

0
Reply
Female 48
"If you don`t try to censor Christianity, we have no reason to try to censor Atheism."

If you put two ideas side by side, is that censorship? That`s all that they did. If you see one side, you should be able to see the other. They did not place it in front of the nativity scene to block it out. They didn`t throw the nativity scene into a lake or whatever. THAT is censorship.

0
Reply
Male 16
As a Christian, I`m not happy about this, but, I did see it coming.
The sign was meant as a direct attack to the nativity scene, and in my opinion shouldn`t have been put up. However, that is not to say that whoever took it down had the right to do such a thing! I believe in freedom of religion, and freedom to be an atheist if you choose to do so. While I am sorry that those without Jesus Christ in their hearts are destined for dark things after their death, that`s still their decision, and they have the right to exspress their views, just as all Christians and all people have the right to exspress theirs.
If you don`t try to censor Christianity, we have no reason to try to censor Atheism.
God bless all of you.
0
Reply
Female 48
"And do you have any proof they`re in hell?"

Darwin, of course. No evolution, right?
Julius Caesar, Ghengis, and Tut all didn`t believe in God. So of course again.
Einstein was Jewish. K?

0
Reply
Male 352
My post got cut off..

Anyway, if you live your life that God allows you to have, constantly breaking his rules, denying his existence, and cursing his name, you`re going to get the big punishment.

It may seem harsh, or unfair, but if you get your whole darn life disobeying your parents in every way possible, they`re gonna get pissed.

Then there`s the whole Stereotypical Christian. Well, it`s common knowledge that all Christians hail from the land of Texas, live in trailers, and hate Gays with a passion, right?

Wrong. I was born in Northern Illinois, and have lived there my whole life. Now, the Bible does say homosexuality is wrong and is a sin, but where does it say you should hate and kill homosexuals?

It`s my belief that your Stereotypical Christian, it very, very misguided. It says in the Bible, if you truly hate a man, you have committed murder., in your heart. So killing Gays is a BIG no, but we aren`t supposed to hate em` either? Gee that sounds nothing like a Christian

0
Reply
Male 237
kikayoaka,

I appreciate the effort, but one thing you immediately learn about the internet is that evangelising here is worthless and self-frustrating. Just try to say "oh, ok, you don`t care to listen, but I respect you" then go play video games or something. Much more productive.

0
Reply
Male 4,290
"And do you have any proof they`re in hell?"

Yes, the same reason I`m going to hell - none of them believed in the Christian God.

0
Reply
Male 4,290
"What`s this? A sign that makes derogatory comments against people is censored? Now why would that be?"


Please quote the line on the plaque that is a derogatory comment to another human being.


"Can you prove such religion is ridiculous? Any concrete proof that denies their god`s existence?"


Can you disprove Thor? Obviously not. Why don`t you worship him then?

0
Reply
Male 78
"BH Hell sounds more fun anyway. Who wants to be cooped up for all eternity with a bunch of pious, smug God-botherers?
I`ll get to hang out with cool, interesting people like Einstein, Genghis Khan, Darwin, Julius Caesar and Tutankhamun. It`ll be awesome."
And do you have any proof they`re in hell?
0
Reply
Female 4,376
lawl
0
Reply
Male 4,290
TBH Hell sounds more fun anyway. Who wants to be cooped up for all eternity with a bunch of pious, smug God-botherers?

I`ll get to hang out with cool, interesting people like Einstein, Genghis Khan, Darwin, Julius Caesar and Tutankhamun. It`ll be awesome.

0
Reply
Male 78
"Ridiculous beliefs are meant to be ridiculed."
Can you prove such religion is ridiculous? Any concrete proof that denies their god`s existence?
0
Reply
Male 78
What`s this? A sign that makes derogatory comments against people is censored? Now why would that be?
0
Reply
Female 1,984
" Just make sure whatever you put up, it`s sole purpose isn`t to insult another person`s belief."

Ridiculous beliefs are meant to be ridiculed.

0
Reply
Male 352
Then, there`s the whole "Unconditional love" argument.

"If Gods love is unconditional, and he loves people no mater what, why does he send them to hell?"

God loves everyone, everyone in the entire universe, equally. He loves no one more, and no one less.

The Bible also says God is a just God. He has a set of rules, and commands that we all abide by them. Now, he still loves us if we don`t, but there has to be a form of punishment, or else God is not really just.

If you tell your child not to take a cookie from the cookie jar, and he does anyway, what do you do? You punish him, whether it be a time-out, or a spanking, or anything else.

If we as humans, do not listen to God, do not except his existence, and do not obey his rules, he still loves us, but he has to punish us, or else he is not a just God. The punishments start out small, maybe you get a cold, or something. but if you constantly live a life of breaking his rules endlessly, well, looks like an et

0
Reply
Female 48
Stuff like this makes me want to become an Anti-theist. Not only not believing in a God, but disapproving of religion as a whole.

Christians bombing abortion clinics and murdering gay couples. Extremists from the middle east killing people who disagree with them. Wars over "holy" lands. Hallmark making billions off people`s beliefs. Priests molesting their young followers. People feeling that everyone should believe their way or be punished. It`s not something I want to be a part of.

I don`t believe that a man who murders someone or rapes a girl should be able to simply ask for forgiveness and be rewarded in the end. I don`t believe that if the only thing you do wrong in your life is deny the existence of a god, your still screwed. I don`t believe you should be able to pick and choose what parts of a holy text you follow. I don`t believe science should be denied in a science classroom because of religion.

But believe what you want.

0
Reply
Female 1,984
"The sign, which was at the Legislative Building at 6:30 a.m. PT, was gone by 7:30 a.m., Gaylor said."

Man, Christians suck. Was THEIR Jebus thingy taken away too?? Isn`t America about equality and freedom?

And whatever happened to Thou Shalt Not Steal?

0
Reply
Male 352
Christians believe that God created everything right? EVERYTHING, science, physics, chemistry, everything. He didn`t just take a template of the universe, with all of the laws of physics and such already there, and make universe around that, he created EVERYTHING.

So, God being all powerful, and not being bound by any laws or logic, that he himself created, can do anything he wants, whether it`s "Physically possible" or not, due to the fact that he can alter physics and science any way he see fit.

We as humans only have the knowledge that was created for us, that`s it. And if God wanted to, he could alter it in unimaginable amounts of ways, because he can do anything and everything, whether our human logic understands it or not.

God is not bound by ANY laws of physics, or any type of logic, because he is God, and can do anything.

If he wanted to make sphere with pointed edges, and have it still be a sphere, he could do it because he`s God, and can do anything.

0
Reply
Male 4,290
I love how readily the Bible-bashers will break their own rules. Good stuff.
0
Reply
Male 69
O boy! I don`t believe in God so I`m gonna put up a sign that says I`m better then you, and that only athiest are smart. But in reality I just want attention because I have no friedns... YIPEE!
...Idiot...
I agree with Pasary. IF you don`t like us being chritians, get over it. If we are wrong, atleast we lived our last days alive on earth happy, rather then thinking we are going nowhere. Whats wrong with letting people have hope? I can see how athiest or other religions can hate how christians try to put stuff into your heads, but you have to realize that its our jobs as christians. I would much rather die with hope then die with nothing.
0
Reply
Male 338
thou shall not steal. lol. stupid religion. f church go outside.
0
Reply
Male 384
lol been fun, but i gotta run.
have a good time with this conundrum!
0
Reply
Male 384
"But science is just theories - remember, people were once CONVINCED the Earth was flat, and that the sun revolved around the Earth. These were `proven` scientific views."

no, science THEORIES are just theories.
scientific law must be proven, until then it`s just called a theory.

we`re not talking about middle age science, because, well.... none of us live in the middle ages.

do yourself a favor, dont choose science as your focus of attack.. thats a losing road.

0
Reply
Male 7
you know what i kinda find irritating,
you people think that atheists are like an religion or something.

with that you act like whatever one atheist things, it has to be like every atheist thinks. But it does not work thad way.

all that being an atheist means is that you don`t believe in an god,.. thats it.. nothing more nothing less. Its not like we have weekly meetings or anything, its not like its an organized group (well only if people choose to be ofcource) but it is not an requirement.

i don`t believe in an god, so that makes me an atheist, but it does not mean that i agree with anything any other atheist says or something. I have some friends who believe in an god in one form or an other, and i don`t think they are stupid, mis lead or anything. its an personal choice in my view.

i ust think everybody has to respect eatchother for what they do or don`t believe.

0
Reply
Male 384
bal: ty for an actual refute. here`s my counter:

in the strictest term, i was speaking of the western "superman" god (as i call him)

who is supposed to be "triple omni"
i do in fact, realize my simple argument is found in many places.
i stated it was a simple argument when i put it forth, please stop repeating things.
all the same, "he could turn off his omnipotence permantly" ?? grasp at straws much?

cmon, you`ve still only attacked what im saying.
were`s the message of love that religions are supposed to put forth? cause im not feeling the "unconditional love" that religions claim they spread.

cmon, get ta spreading!

0
Reply
Female 19
But science is just theories - remember, people were once CONVINCED the Earth was flat, and that the sun revolved around the Earth. These were `proven` scientific views.
0
Reply
Female 19
I`m not sure I understand - for many people, God /is/ a part of their every day life. Maybe to you, it seems as if they are talking to air, but they still feel guided by God.

I reallllly don`t think it wise to bring all the failtastic arguments like "Jesus appeared on a piece of toast" or anything, but what about people coming back to life after being dead for 3 days with rigor mortis? Can such things be explained with science? This is an honest question.

0
Reply
Male 384
"I do dislike people asking for proof of God`s existence. Why does atheism have to be the `default`? Why shouldn`t we have to be given proof that God DOESN`T exist?

Also, does science even prove science? I don`t think so ._____."

um, yeah, science does prove science... its really the whole point.

0
Reply
Male 1,365
How weak are your religous views if a piece of poster board threatens all you know?
0
Reply
Male 384
bal, you keep saying "b4 religion" you mean b4 yours? lol. go look it up, relgion is way older than judism, which spawned christianity

oh, and Apfelgras: look through my posts, i made it quiteclear im not an athiest. the only view i share with athiests is that i dont believe in a omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient being that will burn me for not going to churh on sunday.
i know i come across as gruff, but seriously, if someone came up to you on the street and said, "im god" would ya believe him? or think "get this vagrant away from me!"?

what im saying here, (and ya, i know i got away from this point) is: ask for some proof! dont be afraid to say "can you produce anything that can back up these claims?"
my apologies for coming off as a "narrow minded athiest"
but this shouldn`t be a debate, really!
if there really is a "god" then why in the world would he not really be part of everyday life?

0
Reply
Male 533
why do people think its so bad for someone to believe in god? If god doesn`t exists than what can you do about it. All you were doing was following a group of people that believe in a set of morals and codes of ethics.

Think about it this way Atheists, God is a metaphor for a reason to be a good person, to respect fellow people, and to not be such a dick all the time. Something you guys seem to forget about.

And Christians, don`t be such a dick about your religion. If someone doesn`t believe the same thing you do then don`t blow it up in their face, just accept that people will have different opinions about the same thing

0
Reply
Female 19
I do dislike people asking for proof of God`s existence. Why does atheism have to be the `default`? Why shouldn`t we have to be given proof that God DOESN`T exist?

Also, does science even prove science? I don`t think so ._____.

In before O GTFO CUZ UR DUMB CUZ UR LIEK NT ATHEIST.

And robrobrob125: yes, w.

0
Reply
Male 118
in an effort to avoid the current flame war, I will say this: Did anyone else notice that the atheists quoted in the article sound like god/science damn robots, or possibly those pink things from Mass Effect that refer to themselves as this one?
0
Reply
Male 4,546
Screwz:
Your point is invalid on several levels.

Not every religion believes in a triple omnipotent god. Your refutation only applies to those that have that characteristics.

There are different interpretations of omnipotent. There`s "can do anything", or there is simply "all-powerful". Infinite energy could be considered omnipotent without being able to do everything. The ability to change the laws of physics grants both these criteria.

Technically, yes, he could, if he were to make a moderately strong bar, then turn off his omnipotence (first definition) permanently.

Also it`s a word game. A game you`re playing with a quadruple translated word. It is in essence meaningless.

Finally: You could have looked this crap up on google or wiki. Stop wasting everyone`s time.

0
Reply
Male 384
i say god doesn`t exist, and show you how i got there. bal and amaq say im stupid, and and attack everything i say..
hmmmmmmmmmmmm

still waiting on the "rebutal" that i dont think is gonna show up here

instead of a bunch of small quotes from what i`ve said, tell me why you think god does exist?

oh, and Amaq, i did "search" for god. dont act like you know me. i just didnt feel the need to go into detail, but since you insist, from the time i was 5, i prayed 3 times a day, and had little else on my mind besides my "salvation".
i`ve even talked to numerous preists, and religious scholars in my life.
it all came back to "you must have faith"
never once was i given somegood, hard proof.
hells, i still look to this day, because i really wouldnt mind being proven wrong. but all i ever ee is ppl like you two, that attack ppl for saying your bogeyman isn`t real.

0
Reply
Female 19
TL;DR version:

Anyone who comes on here saying "GOD DOESN`T EXIST, FACT" or heck, even "GOD EXISTS, FACT" is incredibly closed-minded, and nobody will suddenly turn round and think, `hey, this guy has a good point! I`ll embrace/denounce religion from now on!`.
You just look like an idiot with no knowledge on the subject. You don`t know everything, so don`t try to make it appear as if you do.

Thus, Baalthazaq and Overmann, even though they have opposing views are good, intelligent debaters. Screwzlooose, on the other hand, is a closed-minded atheist with a bad attitude. And nothing more.

0
Reply
Male 4,546
Madest:
Slavery exists because of religion? So prior to religion slavery didn`t happen. It was just when religion came along and said "don`t kill" people went "hey... he didn`t say anything about enslaving our fellow man though.. lets do that... wouldn`t have thought about it otherwise, but lets give it a shot"


Similarly, I suppose there was no lesbianism in the UK until homosexuality for men was outlawed. (Lesbianism was explicitly not included as women "wouldn`t do that kind of thing").

I`m willing to bet fairly large sums of money that these things used to happen before religion.

0
Reply
Male 2,245
God is beyond doing anything, God is in every action, God is in everything, God is in that steel bar. i`m leaving anyway but for everyone else`s sake just stop asking stupid questions about religion that you stole from the simpsons.
0
Reply
Male 2,245
"Where science has given advancement, religion has fought against in rights. Lets face it until recently it was religion that forced the underclass into slavery. It`s religion that`s allowed parents to trade children for goats. Your opinion is known thanks to science not religion."

i have never seen you post something intelligent or true

0
Reply
Male 4,546
WRONG Screwz. I haven`t taken to attacking religion. I don`t think religion is bad, I don`t think science is bad, I don`t think evolution is bad. I really shouldn`t have to repeat that a third time.

Not every comparison is an attack.

0
Reply
Male 384
amaq, refute it then!
instead of attacking me, how about you actually refute what i just said

all you did is go "your stupid, that thing you just said was stupid"

tell me why, if you can.

0
Reply
Male 7,378
Where science has given advancement, religion has fought against in rights. Lets face it until recently it was religion that forced the underclass into slavery. It`s religion that`s allowed parents to trade children for goats. Your opinion is known thanks to science not religion.
0
Reply
Male 4,546
Sigh. My main problem, as I always say in these threads, is I don`t see the difference between the religion nutjobs, their hypocrisy, their unwillingness to compromise, their doublespeak, and their twisted logic, and people like this:

Quoting Screwz:
Religion is where you take someone`s view of spirituality, and tell everyone, "this is the truth".
+
its funny how a sign stating TRUTH is considered offensive
+
instead of being worried of the TRUTH that atheist present
+
since god DOESN`T exist, at one point, MAN made rules to preserve society, and therefore, WAS capable of "civilized" behavior.

I found flaws with the fact that your leaders are overtly judgmental towards people that weren`t just like them
+
if it makes you feel any better, i attack islam too...and hinduism, and buddhism...

0
Reply
Male 384
bal is funny.

:D

i love how he`s taken to attacking science to defend religion.

it`s awesome... its a shame you live in asia, you`d make a great american politician.

dude, i never said science has done no evils.
i merely said Religion is evil.
;-)

0
Reply
Male 2,245
screwzlooose if you think that religion or spirituality is just about getting your own inner peace then you are just being selfish. and that comment about the metal bar is exactly what i was talking about. it`s a joke to you, and something you have never considered or intelligently refuted.
0
Reply
Male 384
see, if god cannot make the bar, it proves he does not have absolute power in mkaing things, if he cannot bend it, it proves he does not have absolute strength.

theres lots idont know, but logic tells me this one is a no-go...
omnipotence is impossible.

0
Reply
Male 4,546
Overmann, I respect you a whole lot more than "screwz" here, but I think I might be unfairly lumping your arguments together because you seem to be defending his stance.

Are you seriously suggesting that:
1) Religion is the cause of (according to him) seemingly over 100 million deaths from conflict alone.
2) This is a simple misfiring of a beneficial attribute such as "superstition".
3) This is not enough of an evolutionary disadvantage to have it wiped out or at least limited, thousands of years ago.

Surely either religion is simply not as bad as you say, or there is somehow a way that "superstition" saves (as I`m sure Screwz believes) upwards of a trajikiliion lives a minute.

0
Reply
Male 384
btw ppl, just to be clear here:
i have NO problems with spirituality- such things can lead to inner peace, and inner peace= good :D

what i have a problem with is religion.
religion is where you take someone`s view of spirituality, and tell everyone, "this is the truth" then over the years, ppl in charge of this "institution" throw rules into the mix, usually because they have some self-loathing based phobia, until homosexuality is seen as evil, and war is seen as good and just.

what im against is mind control, what im against is ppl faking that they "feel" something so they arent outcasts on some lvl, what im against is any group, or individual that is totally sure that they are 100% correct on ALL issues.

oh, and there is no "god".
that one pisses me off, too.
simple logical puzzle can prove the idea of "god" to be impossible:
"can god make a metal bar that is so strong that he himself cannot bend it?" e

0
Reply
Male 2,605
I`ve a final to study for but I`ll be back in the afternoon.
0
Reply
Male 2,605
Baalthazaq, of course one could say that the perpetrators of some of the most barbaric acts who acted in the name of religion were misinterpreting the Bible or the concept of faith for selfish means and then also claim the same of people and the scientific method. But what I see is that, overwhelmingly, such cruelties were perpetrated by religious people for far greater spans of time and by greatly more people of faith than scientists, enough so as to suggest a correlation between religious belief and a tendency to commit violent acts because of it.

The point is that you don`t typically see scientists abusing scientific research, but rather other people not directly related to it. On the other hand, inquisitors and popes and bishops have perennially been *directly* associated with instigating torture and censorship and murder. Do you not see a difference?

0
Reply
Male 4,546
Ah I see, then we`re terming everything a religious war and then claiming religion is to blame for all the world`s ills?

Very well, I term every advancement in weaponry from using a stick to inventing the bow and upward to be science.

I term every death that isn`t from age to be "survival of the fittest".

I win with the power of convoluted definitions. Huzzah. Back to the point: The war even against the Jews, was Arians vs Jews, not christian vs Jews. they were the surperior race, not religion.

As such, race, and human tribalism is more to blame for 55 million deaths than religion. You are elevating religion because you want it to be true, not because it is.

0
Reply
Male 2,245
yeah i realized after i typed that about the nuclear bomb that that was a poor example, but people really need to consider the repercussions of science, especially now. nanotechnology and genetic engineering have some pretty horrific applications.
0
Reply
Male 2,245
"hitler used religuos motivation to get ppl to do the horrible things to jewish ppl.. and the US, england, and britian used religion to motivate ppl into fighting the very scary german war machine.
not all deaths caused by religion are put into action by ppl that really believe in said religion, or religions..."

please, just stop talking

0
Reply
Male 384
@Baalthazaq:
its funny when you hear "religious" you narrow-mindedly think i only mean christianity.

oh, and WWII? "buddy", if you dont think that it wasn`t a religious war, you dont pay attention to the stuff coming out of your own mouth.

hitler used religuos motivation to get ppl to do the horrible things to jewish ppl.. and the US, england, and britian used religion to motivate ppl into fighting the very scary german war machine.
not all deaths caused by religion are put into action by ppl that really believe in said religion, or religions...

so, if WWII had est. 55 mill deaths (this is correct)
then, no, im easily right.

0
Reply
Male 2,605
"duh?"

Not so fast, amaqdrinker. Some people here seem not to possess your stellar level of common sense.

"that should be a consideration actually, and was the american government criminally insane when it developed the nuclear bomb?"

Developed it? No, not necessarily. The same research gave way to nuclear reactors. When the American government *used* the bombs to kill millions of innocent people? Well, that`s a sticky issue, but yes, I would have to side that it was criminal. Then again most war is, on one side or the other.

0
Reply
Male 4,546
Overmann, you disappoint me.

You know that science can be abused. You know that evolution was misinterpreted.

My only point is that you have a double standard with religion.
If I say it is misinterpreted, you cry foul.
If I say it is misused, you cry foul.

I believe in evolution. I believe in science. I understand that they were abused.

What disappoints me is you are incapable of seeing the same of religion. You cry misinterpretation, you cry abuse, and you shut your mind to the possibility that that which you find so precious isn`t as perfect as that you decry.

Poor poor Overmann.

0
Reply
Male 439
Ah well...now that`s funny. Atheists are called arrogant bastards in half the posts in the previous thread and then this happens XD
0
Reply
Male 2,605
"...religion must have at least been generally beneficial to mankind or it wouldn`t have evolved."

And if *you* had any general sense of natural selection, you`d know that it may not have even been religion specifically that was in some way beneficial but perhaps rather some derivative that led to religious thinking, such as... superstition! An imagination! The ability to avoid in the leaves a twig which slightly resembles a snake because it really is better to be safe than sorry. Religion could easily be a misfiring of some genuinely beneficial quality. I call it a misfiring because I doubt it`s religion specifically that is beneficial to the survival of one`s genes when... you know... so many people in our human history have been killed for their beliefs or lack of them. Just food for thought.

0
Reply
Male 2,245
i read your posts screwzlooose, but the arguments you are using are simple things that show your lack of consideration. going to church, and even reading the bible does not mean that you considered religion, you actually have to search for God, if you don`t find God and wish to deny his existence than fine, but clearly you have never searched for God.
0
Reply
Male 2,245
or i guess i meant to say, was any technological advancement in war done by the criminally insane?
0
Reply
Male 384
lol who said i never considered religion? i said i never believed. read the post, dont just skim.

i actually went to church for years, dragged there by family that was scared of hell..

and have done alot of study to try and understand why i never "felt the holy spirit"
thing is, i gave up on christianity before i was 10..
read the whole bible several times first, just to make sure (to be honest, it`s great reading if you can stand the way it is written, filled with tons of great wars, and fairy tales)
i then moved onto islam for a short while, but their views on equality between the sexes disgusts me... in fact, most eastern religions fail with me for this reason.

dont get too upset, now.
i didnt find flaws in the speeches given by jesus, great stuff there.

i found flaws with the fact that your leaders are overtly judgmental towards people that weren`t just like them.
kinda goes right against the core principles, and showed me that they were, in fact, N

0
Reply
Male 2,245
"Scientific research that has obeyed ethical standards has not been harmful in and of itself."

duh?

"Are we to deny ourselves scientific investigation into the world around us simply because what we might discover could be used against humanity by the criminally insane?"

that should be a consideration actually, and was the american government criminally insane when it developed the nuclear bomb?

0
Reply
Male 7,378
Baalthalzaq only has his faith to state unequivocally that there is indeed a God. With that everyone in his club knows him to be correct. His God was formed in a book that insists women are second class citizens and owning slaves is acceptable. The book that makes the rules can be ignored but never ammended. The rules of the book affects everyone that believes and even those who don`t. When the book is finally scientifically proven to be full of holes the people who follow it (like Baalthazaq) get offended and feel attacked.

Too bad. There is no God.

0
Reply
Male 2,605
Gotta love the Darwin fish, Davymid.

This is pretty sad. "I`m so insecure about having my beliefs criticized that I must censor any message opposed to mine and thereby deny someone their fundamental freedom of expression." I don`t agree with the original sign message, but I can respect its right to be on state property if the state also sees fit to place a nativity scene on the same property.

And Baalthazaq`s off his rocker, again. Scientific research that has obeyed ethical standards has not been harmful in and of itself. The technological advances which science has yielded have been usurped by evil regimes to inflict greater harm, but is that the scientists` fault? Are we to deny ourselves scientific investigation into the world around us simply because what we might discover could be used against humanity by the criminally insane? Please excuse the rest of society while we promptly leave you in the Dark Ages.

0
Reply
Male 4,546
Incidentally, link for my previous statement can be found here.
0
Reply
Male 4,546
Are you suggesting that misuse of science by humanity rather than science itself is to blame for all the bad boom booms?

Goodness, if only religion had some sort of similar defense I`d have a solid argument, but alas, I`m going to have to concede I guess.


Incidentally: You`re making up numbers now. WWI and II make up millions of deaths and compared to any religious conflict ever they way outstrip deaths.

Entire crusades have estimates up to ~ 1 million dead.

WW1: 15 million dead.
WW2: 55 million dead.

You lose utterly even adding together every religious conflict ever. Sorry buddy.

0
Reply
Male 2,245
i have no desire to prove God`s existence to you or myself. if you`ve never really considered religion than you have no right to be having this debate. i know atheists who have actually attempted to understand religion, and i can respect that, but you are just ignorant about this subject. and no it doesn`t make me feel better that you judge and misinterpret other religions as well.
0
Reply
Male 384
@amaqdrinker:
if it makes you feel any better, i attack islam too...
and hinduism, and buddhism...

i dont like any of them, they stop the spread of truth.

0
Reply
Male 384
ok, time ta shut ya`ll up... prove to me god exists..
should be easy, right? i mean, an omnipresent, omnipotent, omniscient being that noone can prove?

and yes, i`ve heard your tired, "you gotta have faith"

no, PROOF.

can ya give me any of that?

cause if you say god exists, i say he`s made of marshmallow puff, and loves to dance dressed in pink to Prince`s "little red corvette"

prove me wrong?

0
Reply
Male 384
@Baalthazaq: LMAO
i just got called retarded by a dude that ACTUALLY BELIEVES IN AN INVISIBLE MAN IN THE SKY!!!!

and yes, religion HAS killed ore than ALL of those things... in fact, the things you listed dont even come close... the only non religious thing to EVER come close was the bubonic plague.

"Lets get one thing straight here: You`re full of it. Religion,generally, has been a unifying factor over the last 5 thousand or so years. Before that, there was civil war, when religion came along, people who followed the same religion got along and stopped fighting. "
LMAO then why are the sunnis and shiites fighting right now?? same religion... both are "muslim"

and why does there need to be some 1500 different branches of christianity (lol hells, there was a war when it split along catholic/church of england lines)
and then you try and put in deaths on science`s head.. typical. science has never told ppl "those guys are evil, go kill them" b

0
Reply
Male 2,245
a lot of people on this website have some very ignorant view of what a christian is, and it seems like we are the only group of people that it is completely socially acceptable to attack endlessly.
people should check out this book.

The Irresistible Revolution by Shane Claiborne

0
Reply
Male 2,245
ok, lemme amend that...."99% of you have TOTALLY whored out your most sacred of holidays"

you come off as very close minded

0
Reply
Male 4,546
Oh by the way, GOD DOES EXIST.

Alas I can`t make my text any bigger giving me even MORE TRUTH, but at least now we`re tied.

0
Reply
Male 384
@amaqdrinker: ok, lemme amend that...."99% of you have TOTALLY whored out your most sacred of holidays"

oh, and BTW... im NOT an atheist. i just dont buy into a relgion... if anything, i guess you could call me a "realitiest" as in, I believe in REALITY... not a book written by dudes that didnt even know that 1. the earth is round 2. we ARE NOT the center of the universe...ect.

seriously, a 3rd grader knows these things... maybe i could visit a elementary school, and get a bunch of kids to write me a "new doctrine"..

0
Reply
Male 4,546
Screwzloose:
TRUTH! Feeling a bit preachy are we?

Lets get one thing straight here: You`re full of it. Religion,generally, has been a unifying factor over the last 5 thousand or so years. Before that, there was civil war, when religion came along, people who followed the same religion got along and stopped fighting.

Try being not retarded for 5 seconds:
If you have any sort of belief in evolution you should understand that on a social scale, religion must have at least been generally beneficial to mankind or it wouldn`t have evolved.

Finally:
Has it killed more people than evolution?
Hitler believed in wiping out inferior races as a twisted view on evolution, incidentally he called Christianity a "disease" that needed to be eradicated.

Has it killed more people than science?
Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Bombs, The Machine Gun, etc have led to more death than religion.

Your TRUTH sounds like lie.

0
Reply
Male 384
@Steyene: so you are saying that without a scary invisible man in the sky, you will turn into a raving beast, killing, raping, and stealing??

lump yourself into this catagory. leave me and other capable of thought out of your grouping.
i`ve never, as long as i can remember, thought that god was real, yet i`ve not been a immoral madman by ANY means.

maybe early man needed to fear a scary fire and brimstone bogey-man, but this is the 21st century..

i think perhaps its time to take the training wheels off.

and besides, since god DOESN`T exist, at one point, MAN made rules to preserve society, and therefore, WAS capable of "civilized" behavior.

0
Reply
Male 2,245
"you guys have TOTALLY whored out your most sacred of holidays to capitalist greed."

i really don`t understand how you address christianity as a whole as if i`m a representative of some group or establishment, everyone does it on these threads. i am not responsible for hypocritical corrupt people perverting my religion, they piss me off more than they ever could you.

0
Reply
Male 112
"God knows all, yes? god created Satan knowing he was going to introduce sin to man and betray god. thus god must have wanted there to be sin or he would not have made satan."

Nope, Satan was already chilling, he just wanted to be better then God, and tried to get power. He failed and got bounced.

@madast. With out religion there would be no stability in this world. In history every major civilization has been run directly/indirectly by a religious belief of one sort or another.

Athiest of course have morals, but only have then as society has placed them there. Humans are not moral without an external source, i.e. God or societal pressure.

0
Reply
Male 384
its funny how a sign stating TRUTH is considered offensive.

im offended by capitalmas as a whole.

its supposed to be this day that christians celebrate the birth of their diety.. ask a 5 year old whats up with christmas.."SANTA!"
fer crying out loud, the day after turkey day is called "black friday" because its the day that retailers expect to get of the the negatives!
does anyone else find it messed up that in a 2 week period, retail sales are greater than the WHOLE REST OF THE YEAR?!

instead of being worried of the TRUTH that atheist present, i really think so called christians should look to themselves on this solstice... you guys have TOTALLY whored out your most sacred of holidays to capitalist greed.

or maybe I should be mad, since your religions (ya, i throw em all in together) have caused more death, persecution, torture, famine,and WARS than the next three causes put together.

hell, right now, the "religious right" is seeking to ba

0
Reply
Male 2,245
comparing all religions to cults, perfectly reasonable madest, f*cking troll.
0
Reply
Male 7,378
If this article were about a sign in Jonestown reminding Jim Joneses followers they were in a cult and one of his disciples snapped out of it and got the hell out of there...

The sign maker would today be considered a hero. Not a dick.

0
Reply
Male 4,546
Incidentally:
"On that Nativity scene, there is this threat of internal violence if we don`t submit to that master. Hate speech goes both ways"


Threat of in[/e?]ternal violence:


0
Reply
Male 4,546
I don`t see the problem. As I said in the last thread:

Menorah = Celebration.
X-mas tree = Celebration
Nativity Scene = Celebration
Sign = "F**k all you other guys"

They could have put up an inclusive sign, they could have put up the lyrics to John Lennon`s "Imagine", they could have put up some high brow physics (possibly elitist, but inoffensive), but instead they went with that crap.

The Menorah has gone untouched, as should be. If the Jews put up a sign that instead "Mary was just a whore. Seriously, virgin birth my ass", that would be in a ditch too, so forgive me if I don`t give a crap.
This is not "Anti-Atheist" behavior, this is "Anti-Anti-Religious" behavior.

0
Reply
Male 232
(QUOTE) "whatever happened to the christian belief of tolerance and turning the other cheek?" (QUOTE)

Actually Mr. Blackbeard the quote "turning the other cheek" is far from what it is interpreted like nowadays. In new testament days the Romans used to backhand slap the slaves as a sign of disrespect and humiliation, to turn the other cheek means to turn your face around and force the oppressor to slap you with the same dignity he would his equal. However throwing the sign in the ditch is as childish and stupid as the intent behind the sign in the first place, people just trying to piss each other off and force them to believe in what you believe. If you are a Christian then you believe that everyone will have to answer for their own actions one day, so let them do as they please, if you are an atheist then don`t instil hate into others by making stupid petty signs just to cause offence.

0
Reply
Male 779
Typical Christian behavior. Nothing new here.
0
Reply
Male 12,138
In the forum on the sign going up, I (despite being atheist) declared these guys a bunch of dicks. I now declare the people who dumped he sign in a ditch equally dick, if not more so.

I can sympathise though. I`ve been a car owner for 12 years, and the only time I had my car vandalised was in the god-fearing state of Oklahoma, for having this bumper sticker:

Go Christians! Love and harmony and sh*t.

0
Reply
Male 2,372
Alright! Another Christian bashing thread.

We don`t know that it was Christians that threw the sign out, but it probably was.

Try putting a similar sign next to a Jewish temple, or a mosque, or a Hindu temple.

Better yet, put a sign out next to an abortion clinic saying "Abortion is murder" and see how long it lasts.

This man has a right to free speech, even if it offends. But he shouldn`t be surprised if he gets the reaction he was hoping to create.

0
Reply
Female 1,545
"Love is a threat to a sane way of life. Science is denied due to a fairy tale emotion. An outlandish feeling dictating how we should behave. It`s a story brainwashed into most children handed down over generations. It`s scientifically full of holes yet feeds an agenda that thrives on shallowness.
There are lots of things we don`t know today but we are millions of times more advanced in spite of emotions."

Somebody did NOT get a hug this morning. You scare me a little, actually, SpoonFork. I suggest to you the book "Oryx and Crake" by Margaret Atwood.

0
Reply
Male 337
whatever happened to the christian belief of tolerance and turning the other cheek? While i am not either if one gets 2 voice their opinion, so should all. Pretty sure thats covered in the first amendment.
0
Reply
Female 818
I`m not a religious person. I`m not an atheist, but I`m not sure. So I`m kinda in the middle. And I get that you want to say something about the nativity. But, atheists: that sign was a dick move. Don`t be rude. xD
0
Reply
Male 2,245
"Love is a threat to a sane way of life. Science is denied due to a fairy tale emotion. An outlandish feeling dictating how we should behave. It`s a story brainwashed into most children handed down over generations. It`s scientifically full of holes yet feeds an agenda that thrives on shallowness.
There are lots of things we don`t know today but we are millions of times more advanced in spite of emotions."

i feel sorry for you man.

0
Reply
Male 2,245
what the hell, there`s really nothing better for me to do right now than participate in this forum so...

"Religious belief is often determined by one`s elders, or somebody he you looked up to while he was young. The religious believer believes the doctrines that are set down because they are the doctrines that have been set down for his religion. Any attempt to disprove or question religion is an attack against the religion. "

that is a huge misconception, anyone who is merely fulfilling the social aspects of religion and blindly following what they have been taught has no personal relationship with God. a truly religious person does the same thing that you said a scientific believer would do, and questions their faith daily, trying to understand it more and move closer to God.

0
Reply
Male 1,825
and christians, that was just uncalled for, we didn`t go all swedish on your asses and burn churches, stop fighting over religion. It is and will always be the pinnacle of retarded
0
Reply
Male 1,825
"which are just"*
0
Reply
Male 1,825
skewedvision, i really don`t want to get into this argument, but i don`t think you understand what the definition of theories in scientific circumstances. "which just is" Shows a clear lack of understanding and summarizing of the meaning of the word. Alot of people don`t know that theory has two different meanings, and I mean that in the least condescending way possible, i just don`t want you to say something you don`t mean.
0
Reply
Male 719
@skewedvision: You make a good point bringing up the fact that science is changing and evolving (probably a bad word to use in this forum), and might be considered a belief.

HOWEVER, there is a difference between scientific and religious belief.

Religious belief is often determined by one`s elders, or somebody he you looked up to while he was young. The religious believer believes the doctrines that are set down because they are the doctrines that have been set down for his religion. Any attempt to disprove or question religion is an attack against the religion.

The scientific believer believes what he feels to be the most rational or probable explanation. He looks for evidence to support his claim, as well as evidence to disprove his claim. Based on this evidence, he revises his belief.

I know I`m putting it in black and white terms, but this is how I view the difference.

0
Reply
Male 2,344
Just because one doesn`t believe in God does not mean he has the right to try and destroy a religion for others. I accept athiest`s and all other religions but putting a sign like that up at a Nativity Scene is uncalled for. If you don`t like it, don`t go to it.
0
Reply
Male 9
Religion is not anti sanity. Science is always changing always advancing. What may be taken as truth today could be laughed at in a few years. Science is made up of theories, which are just educated guesses that have some evidence to back them up but never enough to warrant throwing out all other ideas. Religion is another idea another theory and the reason they stick around is no one can prove them wrong beyond any doubt. To completely throw out an idea without first finding the one that is proven to be one hundred percent true, and not just theory, is foolish, ignorent and close minded. No I am not anti science. I am studying biochemistry. Just do not close your mind to different ideas. It impedes progress.
0
Reply
Male 1,265
Love is a threat to a sane way of life. Science is denied due to a fairy tale emotion. An outlandish feeling dictating how we should behave. It`s a story brainwashed into most children handed down over generations. It`s scientifically full of holes yet feeds an agenda that thrives on shallowness.
There are lots of things we don`t know today but we are millions of times more advanced in spite of emotions.
0
Reply
Male 292
Hmmm... they practice their beliefs in an organized manner... in adherence with pre-established doctrines... and defend their beliefs fervently... by putting up a sign criticizing others for the same thing.

Smells like a religion to me.

0
Reply
Male 1,265
OK, I will give you that. But, look at it this way... anyone who prescribes to love wther it is for family, wife, or children... prescribes to strong and unreasonable emotion that can often override logic. It does not mean that just because they belong to a relationship that it`s true... it means that the possibility is greater if they take this crap seriosuly.

This is the work of someone feeling the emotional need to protect whatever love they prescribe to. You know its true. It`s as irrational for someone to steal the sign as it is irrational for the dumb atheist to put it up in the first place.

A true objectivist would instead never engage in the dispute in the first place. I should follow my own advice I think...

And yet nobody hates love.

0
Reply
Male 2,245
i wouldn`t really have a problem with the atheists trashing the nativity scene either. i like the muslim law that says there should be no images of God whatsoever, any image of God leans towards idolatry.
0
Reply
Male 7,378
Religion is a threat to a sane way of life. Science is denied due to a fairy tale written by man 2000 years ago. An outlandish tale detailing how things came to be and why. It`s a story brainwashed into most children handed down over generations. It`s scientifically full of holes yet feeds an agenda that thrives on hate.
There are lots of things we don`t know today but we are millions of times more advanced in spite of the Bibles authors.
0
Reply
Male 512
"I think there should be Aunt Jemimah Witnesses..."

Agreed. Sign me up! ^_^

Oh, and madest, thank you for proving Godwin`s Law.

0
Reply
Male 2,245
formal debates are no fun though, and if i have to put my two cents in on this, i don`t give a sh*t. i`d probably do it if i lived there and i was bored enough.
0
Reply
Male 807
Atheism is the absence of belief.

If religion is so absurd to them, why do they feel the need to defend themselves?

0
Reply
Male 740
who gives a f uck
0
Reply
Male 397
awh... a debate sounds nice. =)
sadly, love, this is an online forum. :(
no voices, only text; and no expressions.
moderators are ethereal and noone has and true power.
oh, why i miss the courtroom. T.T
0
Reply
Male 2,245
you guys take flame war bait so willingly, have fun debating.
0
Reply
Male 397
aye?
no surprise here, only mild annoyance.
may we not have equality and goodness for goodness` sake?
0
Reply
Male 17,512
splurbyburbl: "It`s as irrational for someone to steal the sign as it is irrational for the dumb atheist to put it up in the first place."

Rationale left the house when it was decided to allow the sign in the first place. So, someone fought irrationality with more irrationality.

A rational person would`ve burned the sign, destroying the evidence.