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Date: 12/19/08 09:01 PM

176 Responses to Students To Be Taught There Is No God

  1. Profile photo of bobclean
    bobclean Male 18-29
    80 posts
    December 19, 2008 at 6:48 pm
    Link: Students To Be Taught There Is No God - A pretty progressive move from by the Australians. Do you agree? Disagree?
  2. Profile photo of explody
    explody Female 13-17
    104 posts
    December 19, 2008 at 9:04 pm
    Note it says they will be ABLE. Doesn`t mean they have to. That`s fine in my book. I personally wouldn`t take the class, though. I`m outta here before the crazy religious squabble begins.
  3. Profile photo of DuHasstMich
    DuHasstMich Female 13-17
    119 posts
    December 19, 2008 at 9:05 pm
    I like it. Religious people get their say, and parents are allowed to excuse their children from those classes. So it`s only fair that humanists get their say. Parents are still able to make sure their kids don`t go to that class. Everyone has the right to learn about different ways of thinking about things.
  4. Profile photo of Sajo
    Sajo Male 18-29
    436 posts
    December 19, 2008 at 9:05 pm
    So there is some good to be found in Australia then.
  5. Profile photo of ElDavo
    ElDavo Male 18-29
    2149 posts
    December 19, 2008 at 9:06 pm
    The title is misleading. They CAN be taught this, not they WILL be taught this. Many, many parents will opt their kids out.
  6. Profile photo of ElDavo
    ElDavo Male 18-29
    2149 posts
    December 19, 2008 at 9:08 pm
    Personally, I would take this class. It isn`t that I agree with what they say (I do, by the way), it`s that not taking these classes would be ignorant. Making a decision without knowing both sides isn`t really making a decision at all.
  7. Profile photo of sgdp
    sgdp Female 18-29
    553 posts
    December 19, 2008 at 9:12 pm
    It`s voluntary. What`s the big deal?
  8. Profile photo of dss6290
    dss6290 Male 18-29
    108 posts
    December 19, 2008 at 9:12 pm
    ya its not anything bad as long as they have a choice to take the calss or not
  9. Profile photo of idontknow951
    idontknow951 Male 18-29
    909 posts
    December 19, 2008 at 9:16 pm
    Agreed. God does not exist due to a lack of evidence.
  10. Profile photo of explody
    explody Female 13-17
    104 posts
    December 19, 2008 at 9:16 pm
    Personally, I would take this class. It isn`t that I agree with what they say (I do, by the way), it`s that not taking these classes would be ignorant. Making a decision without knowing both sides isn`t really making a decision at all.----
    I don`t think it would necessarily ignorant. I agree, it`s good to know both sides, but some people already feel like they know what`s what, and don`t need a second opinion.
  11. Profile photo of sheab2000
    sheab2000 Male 18-29
    35 posts
    December 19, 2008 at 9:17 pm
    what`s next telling them there`s no santa
  12. Profile photo of Cheese84o6
    Cheese84o6 Male 13-17
    394 posts
    December 19, 2008 at 9:21 pm
    My problem is that Humanism in its self is a belief system XD It would be better if a group of people came in teaching the philosophy that nothing exists except the illusion of reality.
  13. Profile photo of CharlieA
    CharlieA Male 18-29
    502 posts
    December 19, 2008 at 9:21 pm
    Oh, Jesus Christ on a cross, here it comes...

    *Puts on flame-retardent suit*

  14. Profile photo of DHise
    DHise Male 13-17
    868 posts
    December 19, 2008 at 9:22 pm
    Who cares? They don`t HAVE to take it.
  15. Profile photo of aero
    aero Male 18-29
    886 posts
    December 19, 2008 at 9:22 pm
    I don`t think there`s any debate on this, seeing as it`s optional, doesn`t seem to be anything wrong with it. Perhaps this was just an excuse for a religious debate in general?
  16. Profile photo of earthshone
    earthshone Male 18-29
    1688 posts
    December 19, 2008 at 9:23 pm
    VOLUNTARY...enough said. Besides this explains everything much easier...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyYS-GzBS...

  17. Profile photo of LillianDulci
    LillianDulci Female 18-29
    2674 posts
    December 19, 2008 at 9:23 pm
    Well since it`s optional then whatever. There`s no proof that there is no god though, so I don`t see why there needs to be a class about it, unless the class isn`t just about that and this article is misleading. If it`s taught as fact, that`s pretty messed up, but if people who believe in some god don`t have to take it then who cares.
  18. Profile photo of LemonTarte
    LemonTarte Female 18-29
    1441 posts
    December 19, 2008 at 9:25 pm
    It`s stupid to even be talking about this since it`s optional.

    I probably would take it.

  19. Profile photo of explody
    explody Female 13-17
    104 posts
    December 19, 2008 at 9:25 pm
    I don`t think there`s any debate on this, seeing as it`s optional, doesn`t seem to be anything wrong with it. Perhaps this was just an excuse for a religious debate in general?
    ----
    Anything to make news and get people worked up over something small. Don`t you love the media?

    I don`t know. I`m a Christian, but I think the school`s giving kids a good opportunity to learn about other beliefs. I say thumbs up.

  20. Profile photo of CharlieA
    CharlieA Male 18-29
    502 posts
    December 19, 2008 at 9:25 pm
    Yay!! IAB Weekend religion flame war!!! WOOO!!
  21. Profile photo of pighumper
    pighumper Male 30-39
    338 posts
    December 19, 2008 at 9:25 pm
    thank god, lol.religion has no place in education or anything else for that matter, but a church it a choice. seperation of church is supposed to exist, but i have to live by right wing christian values? god bless america i think not.
  22. Profile photo of piemaster
    piemaster Male 18-29
    226 posts
    December 19, 2008 at 9:26 pm
    They are teaching that there is no EVIDENCE of a god...

    Trying to get people worked up with that erroneous headline.

  23. Profile photo of Donut017
    Donut017 Male 18-29
    82 posts
    December 19, 2008 at 9:37 pm
    I want to go to school there
  24. Profile photo of headbanger80
    headbanger80 Male 13-17
    438 posts
    December 19, 2008 at 9:40 pm
    thats not right because every child should be raised in a normal enviornment and like it or not, atheism isnt normal. im atheist btw
  25. Profile photo of Kaizer250
    Kaizer250 Male 18-29
    777 posts
    December 19, 2008 at 9:41 pm
    It`s optional, along with other classes that teach about religion. I don`t see any reason to get worked up about this. Sounds like a pretty good system to me.
    Wish I could go to school there.
  26. Profile photo of LoofahBoy
    LoofahBoy Male 18-29
    3302 posts
    December 19, 2008 at 9:42 pm
    As per standard on all IAB religious debates:

  27. Profile photo of Slmmhmmr161
    Slmmhmmr161 Male 18-29
    606 posts
    December 19, 2008 at 9:45 pm
    Hooray! bring this to Canada!
  28. Profile photo of dilldog123
    dilldog123 Male 18-29
    1858 posts
    December 19, 2008 at 9:45 pm
    "thats not right because every child should be raised in a normal enviornment and like it or not, atheism isnt normal. im atheist btw"
    _______________________________

    I`ve said this before. If it`s not normal, are you saying that babies are born Christian? Do they already know in their heads that there is a God? I think not. They are told what to believe in.

  29. Profile photo of Scotchy
    Scotchy Male 18-29
    592 posts
    December 19, 2008 at 9:52 pm
    I wish that kind of thinking was brought over to the states, maybe people wouldn`t be so stupid anymore, like seeing jesus in a door, or a piece of toast.

    Of course, people will bitch, but bettering society should be more important then teaching that an invisible man dominates our world.

  30. Profile photo of britt566
    britt566 Female 18-29
    2291 posts
    December 19, 2008 at 9:52 pm
    Dude.... let the kids grow up and decide what they want to believe. Don`t just shove it down their throats. Teaching that there is NO god is just as bad as trying to teach that there IS a god.
    I hate atheist AND christians.
    Both F*cking annoying.
  31. Profile photo of wildde
    wildde Male 13-17
    163 posts
    December 19, 2008 at 9:55 pm
    I`m an athies and im not shoving this crap down kids fragile mind, let him beleive that the moon is made of chees, then brake his heart by telling him the truth.
  32. Profile photo of britt566
    britt566 Female 18-29
    2291 posts
    December 19, 2008 at 9:58 pm
    "I`m an athies and im not shoving this crap down kids fragile mind, let him beleive that the moon is made of chees, then brake his heart by telling him the truth."
    ------------
    You`re an atheist and your spelling is sh*t... you`re annoying to me.
  33. Profile photo of LazyMe484
    LazyMe484 Male 18-29
    10443 posts
    December 19, 2008 at 10:11 pm
    Alright! Hopefully this will spread before long.

    I`m beginning to turn against this `let them believe in what they want` idea, its almost like the bs `teach them both sides of the debate` idea. Very fishy stuff.

    So yea, teach atheism as long as religion exists, when its gone, there`ll be no need to teach it.

  34. Profile photo of raceal2
    raceal2 Male 18-29
    62 posts
    December 19, 2008 at 10:31 pm
    *Starts slow clap*
  35. Profile photo of shinboi
    shinboi Male 18-29
    5 posts
    December 19, 2008 at 10:35 pm
    well, this is just as stupid as teaching that there is a god. People oughta believe what they want, instead of being force-fed from birth. This is just as bad. Not a smooth move. nope
  36. Profile photo of thesandwich
    thesandwich Male 18-29
    150 posts
    December 19, 2008 at 10:37 pm
    okay that is misleading, they have the choice to learn about the topic of there being no evidence of god`s existence. So whop-de-doo, all this changes is instead of having the choice of being taught whatever belief at home and/or church, they now have the option to do it at school too. However, this shall become an all out flame war invoking Godwin`s and Poe`s law eventually.
  37. Profile photo of hiddenid958
    hiddenid958 Male 30-39
    34 posts
    December 19, 2008 at 10:47 pm
    IMB Christan here...

    And i would like to say..

    Who gives a drat?

  38. Profile photo of Zerocyde
    Zerocyde Male 18-29
    3258 posts
    December 19, 2008 at 10:57 pm
    Even though I completely agree with it, I don`t think they should be taught one way or the other when it comes to religion. Teach the things that are known to be true in relation to human understanding (science) in school, and leave ALL religious teachings (pro or against) to the private sector. (churches and whatnot)
  39. Profile photo of StefanM
    StefanM Male 18-29
    63 posts
    December 19, 2008 at 10:57 pm
    Cheese84o6
    "It would be better if a group of people came in teaching the philosophy that nothing exists except the illusion of reality."

    Tell them to take quantum mechanics...
    http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn16...

  40. Profile photo of Tay-Dor
    Tay-Dor Male 40-49
    265 posts
    December 19, 2008 at 11:01 pm
    As long as both options are taught, there doesn`t seem to be any real issue. But I think they are mistaken if they think ethics and morality wouldn`t have arisen without the influence of some belief system in a higher being.
  41. Profile photo of pat125
    pat125 Male 18-29
    756 posts
    December 19, 2008 at 11:02 pm
    You atheists are hypocrites. "NO!!!! We can`t teach our children about God, we`re indoctrinating our youth!!!". BUT, then when your side is taught, which is also clearly indoctrination, it`s A-OK. You people can all suck it. Hard core atheists are some of the most arrogant and rotten SOBs this society has to offer. Respect people`s beliefs...I don`t care what you believe, why do you care what I choose to believe? Who the hell gives a flying sh*t if people want to worship God. Is it REALLY, REALLY bothering you that much. Are you REALLY that elitist and arrogant? Never mind, I already know what the answer is.

  42. Profile photo of yellowsquare
    yellowsquare Female 18-29
    1545 posts
    December 19, 2008 at 11:10 pm
    pat125, every time I read your comments, I hear Eric Cartman`s voice narrating them.

    And about the subject matter: There shouldn`t be any mention of god ever in education. People`s personal beliefs are their own and shouldn`t be influenced by the state/federal education system.

  43. Profile photo of coolbananas
    coolbananas Female 18-29
    859 posts
    December 19, 2008 at 11:12 pm
    Fair enough I say
  44. Profile photo of Excalibur32
    Excalibur32 Male 18-29
    7 posts
    December 19, 2008 at 11:29 pm
    The title of this is misleading. It is OK to say that there is no scientific evidence that God exists, because that appears to be true. But to flat out say that God does not exist is both ignorant and arrogant. We are but tiny, tiny creatures in a vast universe. Can you definitively assert that God does not exist? Of course not. You may believe no God exists, and that is fine, and your opinion. But the idea of God is, in my opinion, an idea that is beyond the realm of human understanding. We don`t know everything. Maybe God is out there. It is true that there is no scientific evidence for this, but the idea of faith means quite literally having faith in something that you cannot prove or disprove. No one can disprove that some higher being, beyond our understanding, exists, but many people forget or simply ignore this fact. At that point, it is your call; you can choose to believe or not believe, and either way you choose is fine by me.
  45. Profile photo of Excalibur32
    Excalibur32 Male 18-29
    7 posts
    December 19, 2008 at 11:31 pm
    "They are teaching that there is no EVIDENCE of a god...
    Trying to get people worked up with that erroneous headline."
    ----------
    Ah, I guess someone already said this.
  46. Profile photo of kribbe
    kribbe Male 18-29
    2006 posts
    December 19, 2008 at 11:33 pm
    i don`t c the big deal
  47. Profile photo of sup_dawg444
    sup_dawg444 Male 18-29
    210 posts
    December 19, 2008 at 11:45 pm
    Well that was misleading.
    It`s in a PHILOSOPHY class, of course they`re going to say that at some point.
    And pat125, the only thing more annoying than a hardcore atheist is a hardcore christian. I see Christians imposing their beliefs on people way more often than I see Atheists doing it. You made a lot of assumptions based on things nobody`s said yet, it`s clear you just want to bash Atheists without good reason.
    I think that in a philosophy class it`s fine to teach both sides, but outside of that it`s not either way.
  48. Profile photo of Raccoon
    Raccoon Female 18-29
    340 posts
    December 19, 2008 at 11:50 pm
    My opinion depends:

    If it`s mandatory, then it`s just as bad as mandatory christian religion classes. It would THEN be indoctrination.

    If it`s optional, then I say go for it.

  49. Profile photo of MonoBrow
    MonoBrow Male 18-29
    543 posts
    December 19, 2008 at 11:52 pm
    Well, if anyone is stupid enough to believe there is a god... they shouldn`t be allowed to go to school...


    ~ Bring on teh FLAME!!!!!!

  50. Profile photo of Groogle
    Groogle Male 30-39
    2172 posts
    December 20, 2008 at 12:18 am
    To say that there is no God is a bit drastic. They should tell the truth, that i agree, and the truth is that nobody knows for sure and nobody has the ability to bring forth evidence of the existance of a supreme being who would have created life as we know it.

    They should also teach those kids the difference between a sane and a delusional person.

    It`s sad that some people think that because we take a step away from religion we must throw away everything that was good about it with everything that was bad.

    Don`t throw the baby out with the bath water.

  51. Profile photo of Nidonemo
    Nidonemo Male 18-29
    9311 posts
    December 20, 2008 at 12:25 am
    Philosophy class?

    I guess that`d be fine. If it were by itself then maybe I`d have a problem with it, it would be more of a debate there. The extreme scientific view is in the same boat as the extreme religious view, so neither should be in there.

  52. Profile photo of LoofahBoy
    LoofahBoy Male 18-29
    3302 posts
    December 20, 2008 at 12:32 am
    "Don`t throw the baby out with the bath water."

    Why not? Two birds with one stone!

    Or better yet, just dump both baby and the bathwater into the cooking pot and let it boil. Instant soup!

  53. Profile photo of LoofahBoy
    LoofahBoy Male 18-29
    3302 posts
    December 20, 2008 at 12:33 am
    Picture unrelated.

  54. Profile photo of almightybob1
    almightybob1 Male 18-29
    4290 posts
    December 20, 2008 at 12:36 am
    I have no problem with them teaching both sides of a debate (religious or otherwise) in a philosophy class, that`s what philosophy is for.
    It`s when Christians try to get creationism taught in science class that I get pissed off.
  55. Profile photo of deanmalenko
    deanmalenko Male 18-29
    351 posts
    December 20, 2008 at 12:42 am
    why not tell them the truth?
  56. Profile photo of SoCal
    SoCal Male 18-29
    650 posts
    December 20, 2008 at 1:19 am
    Philosophy is pointless, the only job you can get in the philosophy field is to teach philosophy. Its just a stupid vicious circle. But that is just one opinion, so don`t hate just because not everyone agrees.
  57. Profile photo of manorrd
    manorrd Male 30-39
    2372 posts
    December 20, 2008 at 1:21 am
    Nothing "progressive" about it...
  58. Profile photo of awf1011
    awf1011 Male 18-29
    49 posts
    December 20, 2008 at 1:40 am
    F it all TO ALL ‘ATHEISTS’

    Atheists don’t have believes in any way shape or form towards religion hence that lil A in front of the word. So to all you so called atheists, just to let you know cuz im tired of being in the most minute of ways similar to ya’ll, even responding to a debate about this zrap is like being a one legged man in an ass kicking contest (1000 points to the person who knows that movie) Instead of TRYING to be atheist go find a fing cure for cancer. Douche bags the lot of ya. 2012 or 13 cant get here fast enough.

    P.S. Believe in god or don’t just do your part as an animal on earth. Save the planet, love other animals, cure some s#@t, build real civilizations and learn what you can, not what your expected to.

    P.S.S For all your back stabbers and nick pickers. I educate people about the declining condition of our oceans and donate to organizations that score one for it so piss off.

    “I AM ATHIEST. NOT AN.” - Me
    &quo

  59. Profile photo of LoofahBoy
    LoofahBoy Male 18-29
    3302 posts
    December 20, 2008 at 2:20 am
    awf1011, how big is your penis?
  60. Profile photo of Polish_Lacey
    Polish_Lacey Male 13-17
    74 posts
    December 20, 2008 at 2:29 am
    I don`t see the problem with it.

    It`s a strictly opt-in system if you don`t want to go to Religous Education classes, both sides get equal representation.

  61. Profile photo of Apple_18
    Apple_18 Female 18-29
    475 posts
    December 20, 2008 at 2:38 am
    sometimes i wonder why we cant keep the entire thing out of school, ya know? teach your children at HOME weather there is a god or not, and at school lets learn things we need to know for life, like math, reading, writing, science...Or maybe parents have become too lazy and have forgotten how to pass theyre beliefs on to theyre kids and need someone else to do it for them..which is what its seeming like to me but if thats the case what are they really complaining about "evolution classes" or "atheist classes" for? maybe if theyd do that part of theyre jobs as parents at home, it wouldnt be such a big deal, now would it? O.o
  62. Profile photo of monsterzero
    monsterzero Male 40-49
    353 posts
    December 20, 2008 at 2:49 am
    Going through public schools not one of my teachers from 1st grade to senior year in high school ever tried to teach creationism or the existence of God it wasn`t in the state of Massachusetts` curriculum, Unless you went to Catholic school.
    Science was taught to us as science, the study of our physical surroundings.
    Religion was left to be taught by parents and the church.
    I know that Massachusetts isn`t Australia where this is taking place but my question is...
    Is the existence of God being taught in their public school system?
    And if it is not then why should there be a class to deny Gods existence?
    Optional or not.
    Niether the existence or non-existence of God should be taught in the school systems, it should be left up to parents.
    Although I do remember a healthy religious debate in lit. class after reading the inferno but that was more on the lines or the writers beliefs and not a debate to prove or disprove the existence of God.
  63. Profile photo of makkaal
    makkaal Male 18-29
    123 posts
    December 20, 2008 at 2:57 am
    I have no idea what awf1011 is trying to say, so I`ll just interpret his rantings as those of a madman.

    I`m surprised how atheists are supposed to be arrogant. I don`t even understand how, especially Americans, tend to overreact to the whole topic. The atheists I`ve met are just in favor of secularism, nothing more - what one personally believes is their thing, but in school, courts, hospitals, religion just has no, or should have no place.

    I have no idea what the big deal about this is. It`s not even a philosophical but a pragmatic question, yet apparently everybody (in the US) goes completely nuts about it. You know where else religion is THAT big of a deal? Try the middle east.

    Oh, and by the way: Being an atheist doesn`t mean you`re anti-theistic - you`re not necessarily against religion itself, you just either deny or don`t believe in a supernatural, <PERSONIFIED>, transcendent force.

  64. Profile photo of Hansbo
    Hansbo Male 18-29
    901 posts
    December 20, 2008 at 3:12 am
    Teaching children that there is no scientific proof god exists isn`t indoctrination, it`s simply fact.
  65. Profile photo of moefreak
    moefreak Female 18-29
    1963 posts
    December 20, 2008 at 3:43 am
    I think there`s a bit of a difference between "there is no God" and "there is no evidence that God exists". I don`t think any students have ever been taught that there is proof that god exists.
  66. Profile photo of bonzoello
    bonzoello Male 18-29
    228 posts
    December 20, 2008 at 4:23 am
    Finally!!!!!
  67. Profile photo of mylostdog
    mylostdog Female 18-29
    471 posts
    December 20, 2008 at 4:27 am
    `VICTORIAN state primary school students will soon be able to take religious education classes which teach there is no evidence God exists.`

    or..

    `VICTORIAN state primary school students will soon be able to take religious education classes which teach the truth.`

    ZOMGZOMGFREAK OUTBLABLABLA

    can you imagin something like this being taught anywhere in the bible belt of the US? oh man.. talk about stirring things up..

    giggles

  68. Profile photo of pixiechick81
    pixiechick81 Female 30-39
    838 posts
    December 20, 2008 at 4:37 am
    It seems sort of like taking a class on water being wet
  69. Profile photo of Havenshill
    Havenshill Female 18-29
    44 posts
    December 20, 2008 at 4:40 am
    What an odd thing to do. I suppose that they could follow it with a class on how Santa isn`t real. Shatter dreams early for maximum effiency.
  70. Profile photo of fluffyhoob
    fluffyhoob Female 18-29
    195 posts
    December 20, 2008 at 5:19 am
    well, its the same as a class teaching you there IS a god...but noone batters an eyelid at that.

    personally i`d rather kids learnt ABOUT religion rather than being taught to believe, or not to believe. so they are educated enough to make there own choice instead of being `brainwashed`

  71. Profile photo of caboose117
    caboose117 Male 13-17
    1204 posts
    December 20, 2008 at 6:23 am
    "
    And pat125, the only thing more annoying than a hardcore atheist is a hardcore christian. I see Christians imposing their beliefs on people way more often than I see Atheists doing it. You made a lot of assumptions based on things nobody`s said yet, it`s clear you just want to bash Atheists without good reason.
    I think that in a philosophy class it`s fine to teach both sides, but outside of that it`s not either way."

    You`d see more CHristians doing that because their are more Christians, therefore, by default they should have more people doing that. If you look at percents and ratios, I`m sure they`re all the same.

  72. Profile photo of caboose117
    caboose117 Male 13-17
    1204 posts
    December 20, 2008 at 6:26 am
    "
    Humanists believe people are responsible for their own destiny and reject the notion of a supernatural force or God. "

    That`s pretty retarded imo. Nobody`s destiny is ever fully in their own hands, but more the hands of the grader, the applications people, resume readers, reactions of the people, etc. Nobody really ever controls their own lives anymore.

    Also, in a philosophy course, you can`t go around saying God exists and everyone should be Christian, that defeats the point of it. On the other hand, philosophy seems pretty BS these days. What happened to the good old philophs of the 17th and 18th centuries?

  73. Profile photo of hated0love
    hated0love Female 18-29
    344 posts
    December 20, 2008 at 6:34 am
    i say so what if they want to think there is no god good for them if they want to think there is a god its alrite to it just people cant get the idea that there millions of diff kinds of ways to think in him or not
  74. Profile photo of manicwhite
    manicwhite Male 18-29
    169 posts
    December 20, 2008 at 6:59 am
    this is good. teaching all points of veiws is the way it should be. this is religius education
  75. Profile photo of MildCorma
    MildCorma Male 18-29
    496 posts
    December 20, 2008 at 7:21 am
    About drating time, Aussies have done the right thing again
  76. Profile photo of basketkase
    basketkase Male 18-29
    1182 posts
    December 20, 2008 at 7:34 am
    awesome
  77. Profile photo of llsn
    llsn Female 13-17
    80 posts
    December 20, 2008 at 7:46 am
    NONONONONO! This is not fine! It doesn`t matter if you believe in God or not, we shouldn`t push our beliefs on others! Anyways, this will never in public American schools becuase of our strict church state separation but yea, we are talking about Australia and a Humanist Society and parents can take their children out of the class, anyway. I don`t know, it just doesn`t seem like a good idea to go into topic at school.
  78. Profile photo of gorgack2000
    gorgack2000 Male 13-17
    4683 posts
    December 20, 2008 at 8:08 am
    Funny how all of the atheist-hating posters (i.e. awf1011) come from the southern US...


    On topic: They`ve been doing something similar to this in the UK. Rather than teach one belief though, children are presented with arguments from BOTH sides. Thus, the child makes his or her own choice.

  79. Profile photo of caboose117
    caboose117 Male 13-17
    1204 posts
    December 20, 2008 at 8:18 am
    "
    On topic: They`ve been doing something similar to this in the UK. Rather than teach one belief though, children are presented with arguments from BOTH sides. Thus, the child makes his or her own choice."

    Sensible enough, but I`d like to believe their`s truths in every belief.

    Exception being maybe the spaghetti monster. he`s just a boat full of pwn.

  80. Profile photo of ska_love
    ska_love Female 13-17
    20 posts
    December 20, 2008 at 8:18 am
    this is a wonderful idea.

    the title of this is a little bit intimidating though. the students aren`t being FORCED to take this class, it seems like an elective.

    it`s no more "pushing beliefs onto others" than afterschool catholic classes are. kids shouldn`t be mindless clones of their parents, they should be able to decide what they believe is true.

    the only way for this to be unfair is if the schools don`t offer other religious classes, such as christianity or judaism.

  81. Profile photo of PinkAndGreen
    PinkAndGreen Female 13-17
    918 posts
    December 20, 2008 at 8:21 am
    I don`t agree.

    I don`t think that religion should be brought into school, at all.

    If they offer a class that says religion doesn`t exist, then they should offer another class to prove religion does. It`s only fair.

  82. Profile photo of bluethen
    bluethen Male 13-17
    617 posts
    December 20, 2008 at 8:25 am
    Why have a class reinforce a belief upon students? Even if it`s an elective, it`s completely useless to the children`s futures.
  83. Profile photo of Cheese84o6
    Cheese84o6 Male 13-17
    394 posts
    December 20, 2008 at 8:26 am
    "You`d see more CHristians doing that because their are more Christians, therefore, by default they should have more people doing that. If you look at percents and ratios, I`m sure they`re all the same."

    This is one thing i definitely disagree with. Christians by no means are the majority. The word Christian means follower of Christ, and Jesus called a lot of people hypocrites in the bible. Sure a lot of people CALL themselves christian,
    but a lot of people call themselves educated. Do you see my point?

    Most people disagree with me, and that`s okay, but trust me, 95% of the people who call themselves Christians are only fooling themselves.

  84. Profile photo of wildde
    wildde Male 13-17
    163 posts
    December 20, 2008 at 8:35 am
    the Humanist group have always been agressive, but this is the least agressive thing they have done.If this was were I live it would have been stoned to death by religius people.and that why I keep my belifes and truths to my self.
  85. Profile photo of Clorow
    Clorow Male 18-29
    86 posts
    December 20, 2008 at 8:41 am
    Cheese84o6: No, 100% of Christians are fooling themselves.

    <_<

    >_>

  86. Profile photo of kikayoaka
    kikayoaka Male 70 & Over
    353 posts
    December 20, 2008 at 8:42 am
    I`m not touching this one with a 10 foot pole.
  87. Profile photo of kikayoaka
    kikayoaka Male 70 & Over
    353 posts
    December 20, 2008 at 8:42 am
    Also, i c wut u did thar Clorow.
  88. Profile photo of vicious_liar
    vicious_liar Male 13-17
    1226 posts
    December 20, 2008 at 8:43 am
    Yeah, I agree. There`s nothing wrong with teaching that. Oh and as homework they should make them read The god delusion :p
    So should all of you, in case you haven`t.
  89. Profile photo of JTrevor
    JTrevor Male 18-29
    64 posts
    December 20, 2008 at 8:48 am
    vicious_liar: I`m guessing you haven`t also bothered to read The Dawkins Delusion. It`s a mistake to read one without the other!

    They call this progressive? More like regressive. "There is no evidence that God exists." No duh. There`s also not evidence that God DOESN`T exist. If they try to teach EITHER in school they`re just indoctrinating their viewpoint.

  90. Profile photo of vicious_liar
    vicious_liar Male 13-17
    1226 posts
    December 20, 2008 at 8:49 am
    Actually, they should teach this along with a class for all the proof that god actually does exists...which is...no proof at all. Yeah...that should do.
  91. Profile photo of JTrevor
    JTrevor Male 18-29
    64 posts
    December 20, 2008 at 8:55 am
    vicious_liar: So, you`re saying they should have a class for all the evidence that God doesn`t exist (none at all), but that it doesn`t make sense to have a class for all the evidence that God does exist (none at all)? Yeah, THAT makes a lot of sense.

    I`m sure your response will be something along the lines of "there`s plenty of evidence God doesn`t exist". The problem with that is that none of it is definitive. The best that evidence can do is say "there`s no need for a God to exist", and even that, particularly if one tries to argue for example with evolution, requires blind belief in something other than a god (i.e. Science).

  92. Profile photo of MarthFador
    MarthFador Female 18-29
    1004 posts
    December 20, 2008 at 8:56 am
    I personally believe anything to do with any sort of god/s should be left at home or at church (or whatever else it is you happen to go to). You won`t aggravate others around you with god-talk and people won`t bother you by their anti-god-talk.
    I think they shouldn`t have any religious things in school, like my school has some sort of stupid `Christian Footballers` club, and that you shouldn`t force your religion (Or any non-belief) onto children. If they feel they need to believe, they will. Leave things open for them, don`t force it down their throats it`ll just drive them away faster.

    Just what I think, I`ll leave it at that...

  93. Profile photo of AlANeptune
    AlANeptune Female 18-29
    264 posts
    December 20, 2008 at 8:59 am
    Grrr. Okay, this MIGHT be okay if it`s a chosen class that the parents choose. However, if the teachers do anything to try to COAX kids into taking the class!!! ooooooooh, heads will role.

    This also might be okay if there`s another class that`s chosen by parents that says God DOES exist. Fair`s only fair, right?

  94. Profile photo of AlANeptune
    AlANeptune Female 18-29
    264 posts
    December 20, 2008 at 9:01 am
    "vicious_liar: So, you`re saying they should have a class for all the evidence that God doesn`t exist (none at all), but that it doesn`t make sense to have a class for all the evidence that God does exist (none at all)? Yeah, THAT makes a lot of sense.
    I`m sure your response will be something along the lines of "there`s plenty of evidence God doesn`t exist". The problem with that is that none of it is definitive. The best that evidence can do is say "there`s no need for a God to exist", and even that, particularly if one tries to argue for example with evolution, requires blind belief in something other than a god (i.e. Science)."

    You go, Trev!!

  95. Profile photo of AlANeptune
    AlANeptune Female 18-29
    264 posts
    December 20, 2008 at 9:05 am
    "As with lessons delivered by faith groups, parents will be able to request that their children do not participate."

    REQUEST??!!?? So there`s a possibility that this class will be taught to all until a parent hears about and says no??!!! WTF IS WRONG WITH AUSTRALIANS!!!!!??????

  96. Profile photo of MarthFador
    MarthFador Female 18-29
    1004 posts
    December 20, 2008 at 9:08 am
    "REQUEST??!!?? So there`s a possibility that this class will be taught to all until a parent hears about and says no??!!! WTF IS WRONG WITH AUSTRALIANS!!!!!??????"

    You know, if it bothers the STUDENT that much, they`ll go tell their parent and that`d get taken care of easily.

  97. Profile photo of kaffebaggel
    kaffebaggel Male 18-29
    43 posts
    December 20, 2008 at 9:18 am
    This is a step forward for Australia, good thing they had the oppurtunity for religous students not to attend so that they won`t picket and protest this decision. Let those that want to believe believe but don`t teach it at school.
  98. Profile photo of xiquiripat
    xiquiripat Male 18-29
    2423 posts
    December 20, 2008 at 9:25 am
    First off I`m an atheist, make of that what you will. However, I don`t think this is a good idea. Any arguement for or against the existence of God cannot rest on solid evidence, but only on logical reasoning which becomes mired down in theology and metaphysics and generally wastes everybody`s time. If the professor says "God does not exist" and the student replies "Prove it" an impasse has been reached. Each side will gather evidence to argue about something that they don`t even know about, but can only guess and create assumptions. To me this is just like the Creationists whose doctrine must naturally suppose that God is a fundamental hypothesis open to debate (though they wouldn`t admit that).
  99. Profile photo of SoxXxhXcxSeX
    SoxXxhXcxSeX Female 18-29
    497 posts
    December 20, 2008 at 9:25 am
    why make them depressed?
    =O
    its better to know a lie then the truth sometimes.
  100. Profile photo of xiquiripat
    xiquiripat Male 18-29
    2423 posts
    December 20, 2008 at 9:33 am
    As an atheist, I also think the Bible should be taught in school. Not as a religious thing, mind you, but for History and Literature. It is completely retarded that the book that has influenced western thought so profoundly is not allowed to be taught in class. How can one expect to understand the religious wars in Europe or appreciate the poetry of Milton or grasp the fury of Nietszche without being able to read it? The history of our civilization has been irrevicably bound to it, for better or for worse.
  101. Profile photo of goaliejerry
    goaliejerry Male 30-39
    4019 posts
    December 20, 2008 at 9:54 am
    What "made" the rules of existance? Was it you? If not you, then what governs the obvious order in the universe? Can`t be random by definition....
  102. Profile photo of goaliejerry
    goaliejerry Male 30-39
    4019 posts
    December 20, 2008 at 9:54 am
    Atheists are just as arrogant as believers, since both think their limited intellects (we don`t remember everything, we only live for 80-90 years, tops, we have limited processing power) are nevertheless capable of understanding ALL that is beyond human understanding.

    Der der, there is no god, since science reveals all of the underlying principles that govern the universe....(except that scientific models get *close*, always with a margin of error...)

    So, any time I am confronted by an "atheist," I roll my eyes - yes, you can read a book, and take your humanities classes, but that DOES NOT mean your mind has suddenly surpassed the limits of knowledge imposed by the very limited structure of our brains.

    Don`t get me wrong - any religious person who says that the Bible is the answer is equally as arrogant.

    The ONLY SENSIBLE ANSWER TO THE RELIGION QUESTION IS - who the hell knows??? Its impossible to answer such questions sensibly.

  103. Profile photo of robrobrob125
    robrobrob125 Male 13-17
    118 posts
    December 20, 2008 at 9:56 am
    So are they teaching it in private schools, is it an elective? What`s exactly going on?
  104. Profile photo of robrobrob125
    robrobrob125 Male 13-17
    118 posts
    December 20, 2008 at 9:57 am
    Also yes, they should totally make kids read the bible in school. They should make it clear that the students can believe whatever they want, but learning to interpret things for yourself is definitely important. Maybe also the Koran.
  105. Profile photo of goaliejerry
    goaliejerry Male 30-39
    4019 posts
    December 20, 2008 at 9:58 am
    Agnosticism is the only non-dogmatic answer. Don`t fool yourself athiests - you subscribe to dogma just as much as the religous.

    Mr. Athiest below notes that any debate about religion cannot be answered by arguement - but then concludes that there is no god???? How can any conclusion except "I don`t know" be justified?

  106. Profile photo of goaliejerry
    goaliejerry Male 30-39
    4019 posts
    December 20, 2008 at 10:10 am
    And if you talk to a liberally educated, honest Christian, they will tell you that they don`t know either, they just believe.....and that is perfectly alright.

    But when you run into a proselytizer - just smile, nod, and walk away.

    Remember, just under half of all the people you meet everyday have a two digit IQ, so don`t bother arguing.

    God Bless America, where we have the RIGHT to self-delusion.

  107. Profile photo of tornadofdoom
    tornadofdoom Male 13-17
    1081 posts
    December 20, 2008 at 10:14 am
    I don`t think this should be done. Religion (or lack thereof) shouldn`t get forced on children.

    As a stout agnostic, I disagree with this vehemently.

  108. Profile photo of ale_alue
    ale_alue Female 13-17
    87 posts
    December 20, 2008 at 10:22 am
    The only thing I don`t agree with is that they`re in "primary" I`m guessing thats elementary? or middle school? Teach it when they`re older. First, they`ll understand it more. Second, then for sure it`s their choice. If they already decided god doesnt exist, theres no harm. if they arent sure, why not? and if they`re sure god exists, their faith is strong enough to handle that.

    Either way, its the parent`s choice.

  109. Profile photo of goaliejerry
    goaliejerry Male 30-39
    4019 posts
    December 20, 2008 at 10:30 am
    Caboose117 - I have to disagree with you re: philosophy classes. Philosophy turned me from a hard headed athiest into an unsure agnostic.

    Philosophy showed me something simple - there is an obvious underlying order to things. Now, I`m pretty sure I did not create the universe. BUT, then what governs existance?

    Something does - something beyond humanity. So, call it "god" with a small "g." But there is an order to it all...

    So, PHILOSOPHY DOES NOT BREED ATHIESTS. It breeds open minded people.

    AND FOR ALL OF YOU DOGGIN ON AWF1011 - if you carefully read what he is saying - he is expressing contempt for certitude and a respect for doubt.

    I AGREE WITH AWF1011. Be a good person. Be a good steward of the environment. Act morally. Have beliefs, but constantly critique your own views. Don`t be so arrogant as to think YOU know the correct answer to ANYTHING. Don`t be a douche. Be open minded.

    Atheism is just godless religion. And thats ok, just don`t deny it.

  110. Profile photo of autographed
    autographed Male 18-29
    81 posts
    December 20, 2008 at 10:34 am
    I don`t think that we need to have religion in our schools. We shouldn`t even acknowledge it. No classes about christianity, no classes about atheism, etc.

    It is of course relevant in history classes, in which case it is fine as long as it is taught in a strictly objective view. Tell the students what happened and why, but stop there. Don`t go on to support or oppose something if it`s not necessary.

    We should be teaching facts in school, not opinions. Regardless of what you may say, religion, from ultra-religious to atheist is an opinion. There`s enough s*** in the world. We shouldn`t be exposing our children to it any earlier than is necessary...

  111. Profile photo of verinon
    verinon Male 18-29
    335 posts
    December 20, 2008 at 10:36 am
    FINALLY!
    Maybe people will actually start thinking for themselves for a change
  112. Profile photo of pick_me
    pick_me Male 18-29
    544 posts
    December 20, 2008 at 10:49 am
    shut up fags no one likes you
  113. Profile photo of Overmann
    Overmann Male 18-29
    2600 posts
    December 20, 2008 at 10:50 am
    pat125, you dumb punk. As Lennon wrote, "Living is easy with eyes closed." What you fail to realize is that there are arrogant assh*les across any social strata, group, denomination, etc. I freely acknowledge there are idiot atheists. I know of quite a few. With that said, I don`t feel I`m one of them. Do I agree that the nonexistence of God should be taught in class? No, not in the least. Even if there is a profound lack of evidence, which there is, I don`t feel that should be taught to children anymore than I feel parents should raise their children in one religion or another. What schools really should be doing, more than anything, is teaching children critical thought and how to analyze situations from a multitude of viewpoints. People should think more for themselves, not be told what to think, whether by a teacher, preacher, or president.

    "There`s also not evidence that God DOESN`T exist."

    That`s not how the burden of proof works...

  114. Profile photo of xiquiripat
    xiquiripat Male 18-29
    2423 posts
    December 20, 2008 at 10:51 am
    Mr. Athiest below notes that any debate about religion cannot be answered by arguement - but then concludes that there is no god???? How can any conclusion except "I don`t know" be justified?


    I assume you are referring to me. Anyway, it is true that I cannot be 100% certain as to the existence (or non-existence) of God. But, having looked at the question from various perspectives I think that the existence of any God to be unlikely. And I am very certain that the God desribed by religion does not exist based on all the contradictions that arise. So I have made a concious, rational choice of disbelief based on a chain of probability. I do not think it probable that a god exists. And it seems to me to be far less probable that any religion is correct in their assessment of said god. I am not going to take the easy way and say "I don`t know" when I can make a rational bet in an indicated direction as it appears to me. Could I be wrong? Absolutely! but I don`t thi

  115. Profile photo of xiquiripat
    xiquiripat Male 18-29
    2423 posts
    December 20, 2008 at 10:52 am
    Think that likely. I got cut off.

    I hope that is a satisfactory reply.

  116. Profile photo of TheSharpest
    TheSharpest Male 18-29
    1768 posts
    December 20, 2008 at 10:53 am
    That is as much bullsh*t as imposing them there is a God. I don`t know why there is this religious war where atheists try to impose their beliefs over religious people and vice-versa, but my move would be to teach both points of view in a constructive debate form and let them take their own decisions.

    "Agnosticism is the only non-dogmatic answer. Don`t fool yourself athiests - you subscribe to dogma just as much as the religous.

    Mr. Athiest below notes that any debate about religion cannot be answered by arguement - but then concludes that there is no god???? How can any conclusion except "I don`t know" be justified?"

    Exactly.

  117. Profile photo of Overmann
    Overmann Male 18-29
    2600 posts
    December 20, 2008 at 11:00 am
    "Agnosticism is the only non-dogmatic answer. Don`t fool yourself athiests - you subscribe to dogma just as much as the religous."

    A number of people choose to classify atheism into subsets such as strong and weak atheism, but personally I think it`s unnecessary so long as people can make the general consensus that the only requisite that necessarily classifies one as atheist is a non-belief in theism. With that said, I don`t think it can be considered foolish to simply say, "I don`t believe in God." Some go a step further and actively believe there is no God, which I can understand, but in doing so they are moving beyond atheism and into something more (some have taken to calling this `antitheism`). Lacking belief in theism isn`t dogmatic, though it can certainly be made so just as easily as any nonsense belief can. I don`t claim to know one way or the other whether a God exists, but I do know I lack belief in one. How is that dogmatic?

  118. Profile photo of green_wrath
    green_wrath Male 18-29
    498 posts
    December 20, 2008 at 11:03 am
    Ahhhhh religous ranting!!
  119. Profile photo of k8giggles
    k8giggles Female 18-29
    15 posts
    December 20, 2008 at 11:05 am
    To all those who feel that religion (and I mean religion in the broadest sense possible) shouldn`t be taught (and by taught I do NOT mean indoctrinated) in schools, your arguments sort of remind me of the arguments people use against teaching safe-sex in schools.

    Everyone needs to remember, teaching does not mean the practice is condoned nor that the student must agree with the teacher`s point of view. If that were true, the only people who would learn about Hitler would be students at neo-Nazi schools.

    We must trust students to make their own decisions. And I would far prefer for them to make informed decisions, which just might mean they should learn about things I don`t necessarily agree with.

    Here`s a quote that I think sums it up nicely and yes it`s from the Bible, which I think makes it all the more ironic.

    1Thes5:21 Test everything. Retain what is good.

    So go ahead and let children (and adults for that matter) learn...and trust them to make a good decision.

  120. Profile photo of perfectdark
    perfectdark Male 18-29
    22 posts
    December 20, 2008 at 11:18 am
    I dare you all to find solid proof that there is a god.
  121. Profile photo of Pooptart19
    Pooptart19 Male 18-29
    2442 posts
    December 20, 2008 at 11:24 am
    I have a MAJOR problem with this crap. In a public school, religion should not be forced upon the students AND atheism shouldn`t be forced upon the students. I think the state should stay out and not have either classes in public schools. Now a PRIVATE school should have total freedom to do this, but not a public school.

    FYI, I have a major problem with "atheism" camps and classes as well as Christian camps and classes. I`m not going to tell my kids "hey, I don`t believe in god and you shouldn`t either" because that`s just as bad as saying "hey, I believe in god and you should too." It`s not for me to decide because I know that believing or not believing in a god or gods does not automatically make a person smart or stupid.

    So in short (too late, right?) the state should not have either classes in public schools.

  122. Profile photo of HornyPanda
    HornyPanda Male 18-29
    213 posts
    December 20, 2008 at 11:36 am
    What if there was a God. Except nobody got it right. He(let`s say he has a cawk created simple poo, and had it spread throughout the universe. He also made it so that he is unreachable, no one can know who he is where he is or how to show himself. He just observes. Disprove that. Seriously disprove it, give a shot. You can disprove religion, but you can`t disprove a God (<< My Point).

    This statement does not express the beliefs of the HornyPanda, just a wacky thought.

  123. Profile photo of patthebaker
    patthebaker Male 18-29
    1768 posts
    December 20, 2008 at 11:39 am
    no more bizzare then classes teaching there is a god. Go ahead
  124. Profile photo of boredfjord
    boredfjord Male 13-17
    928 posts
    December 20, 2008 at 11:41 am
    You`re right, HornyPanda, no one can disprove a deistic sort of god, but in science the burden of proof always lies upon those making a positive claim. I don`t have to prove that their is no God, theists and deists have to prove that their is a God, because theirs is the positive proposition. Until then, we should adopt the stance that there are no gods.
  125. Profile photo of Sorax3
    Sorax3 Male 13-17
    142 posts
    December 20, 2008 at 11:46 am
    I`m very religous, a Roman Catholic. But I say go ahead. Its only an atheist CCD basically. As long as they also have an opposing class that says God does exist. or the parents could take some responcibility for once and not argue the issue, just take thier kids out like how some kids are excused from family life. Simple as that
  126. Profile photo of HornyPanda
    HornyPanda Male 18-29
    213 posts
    December 20, 2008 at 11:46 am
    Perfect boredfjord, that`s fine with me. I just wish people wouldn`t be taught that.
  127. Profile photo of yofuzzy
    yofuzzy Male 13-17
    310 posts
    December 20, 2008 at 11:49 am
    I go to school in florida, and we are tought religion. it is a public school and in english class we read genisis and some other ancient storys with similar plots. in world history weve touched on the acceptance of christianity by rome and how it was spread. weve also done some work on the 5 major religions, their holy book, dietys, major beliefs (10 commandments, 8 fold path, 5 pillars etc...), and more.

    i believe that students should be taught about the different religions, but not taught them. religion has not gone through the scientific process and it has not faced the scrutintiy that all currently accepted theorys have. this is why science and the big bang theory should be taught, while religion should not. within the scientific community there is no difference of oppinion about this.

  128. Profile photo of FreshMint
    FreshMint Male 18-29
    181 posts
    December 20, 2008 at 11:54 am
    "Students To Be Taught There Is No God"

    We are finally entering in a new era, thanks! Seriously, 2000 years that the old dude pretend to exist and we still havent seen anything.

    When things are going well, it is god`s will, when it is going wrong, you are being tested by god... Yeah...

    For drat sake, we are not primates controlled by the promise of some kind of heaven. Wake up peoples, the joke is over.

  129. Profile photo of yofuzzy
    yofuzzy Male 13-17
    310 posts
    December 20, 2008 at 11:56 am
    also, there is a difference in teaching that there is no god and not teaching that there is a god. schools shouldnt teach that there is no god, just like they shouldnt teach that there is no flying spaghetti monster, no purple grass, no all the other endless possibilitys out there.

    when learning about chemistry, for example, you dont learn about all the possible theorys of chemistry. you dont even learn the theorys believed most by the people. you learn the theorys that are logical and accepted by the scientific community, no matter how many average people think that nuclear explosions can be made by snapping your fingers

  130. Profile photo of kikij
    kikij Female 18-29
    311 posts
    December 20, 2008 at 12:08 pm
    I am not religious in any way but there is no way that they should be taught that there is no God and there is absolutely no evidence to support this assumption. God may not be what the Christians/Muslims/Hindus etc think he is but that does not mean there is no chance he exists.
  131. Profile photo of goaliejerry
    goaliejerry Male 30-39
    4019 posts
    December 20, 2008 at 12:28 pm
    xiquiripat - please forgive my prior tone, I come off too sarcastic sometimes.

    So, you are saying you have weighed the non-existant evidence of an unknowable concept, and you believe you can logically conclude that it is more likely than not that god does not exist? On what basis?

    Again, consider, there is order in the universe, what governs that? It cannot be randomness - that defies logic. What governs the governing rules?

    And I must say, saying "I don`t know" isn`t the easy way - its the only rational choice, because it is the only choice that is supportable with objective evidence.

    I studied Philosophy because I desperately wanted to find the big answers. I thought it would reinforce my atheistic leanings, but the opposite happened. There is too much order in things. "god" is something - that is all I can say - but I too doubt that any man-made religion (ex: Christianity) is even close.

    But concluding "I don`t know" is the most honest and d

  132. Profile photo of Vagrant86
    Vagrant86 Male 18-29
    2557 posts
    December 20, 2008 at 12:28 pm
    eh its not a schools place to decide that kind of thing one way or the other.
  133. Profile photo of alfietoon
    alfietoon Male 18-29
    1164 posts
    December 20, 2008 at 12:29 pm
    if you teach there is a god then its only fair you teach the other side
  134. Profile photo of goaliejerry
    goaliejerry Male 30-39
    4019 posts
    December 20, 2008 at 12:33 pm
    But concluding "I don`t know" is the most honest and difficult thing I`ve ever done. It is dissatisfying, but the fish, looking out at the blurry world beyond the fishtank, can only bang its head against the glass so many times before it accepts that it is just a fish, in the fish tank, and it can never get out.

    Bottom line - atheists have belief and faith just like religious people, since both base their conclutions on unprovable assumptions.

  135. Profile photo of Martomator
    Martomator Male 13-17
    83 posts
    December 20, 2008 at 12:37 pm
    They dont teach that god doesnt exist, they will have"religious education classes which teach there is no evidence God exists. " I think thats a smart movie, because they are just teaching them the evidence and letting them draw their own conclusions about life which is what school is all about. By the way, this is just one Victorian school. The title "A pretty progressive move from by the Australians." makes it seem like all australis got togeher in a big barbecue and decided against god. sill iab
  136. Profile photo of goaliejerry
    goaliejerry Male 30-39
    4019 posts
    December 20, 2008 at 12:38 pm
    And Overmann - your points are well taken. My only qualification is that I have no problems with anyone`s beliefs, as long as that person never forcloses the possibility that he or she is wrong.

    Once anyone is unwaveringly certain of anything, then that falls into dogma.

  137. Profile photo of Vannak
    Vannak Male 13-17
    211 posts
    December 20, 2008 at 12:42 pm
    this is terrible
    i am in no way anti-religious or religious but i agree with vagrant, this is not a schools place to teach
  138. Profile photo of xiquiripat
    xiquiripat Male 18-29
    2423 posts
    December 20, 2008 at 12:59 pm
    Goaliejerry-it`s quite alright.

    In considering God and looking at the various theological arguments that have been advanced to support his existence, and the assertions of His Onipotence, perfection, ect. And they seem to involve so many logical contradictions that the whole thing falls to the ground. That is why I suspended disbelief in the God of organized religion. As to your conception of god I conceede more uncertainty, but I retain enough to disbelieve there too due to some of the following:

    You say "I don`t know" but your insistance that order must be governed suggests otherwise. Governence suggests sentience, a consiousness capable of imposing structure, which must itself be ordered. And that begs the question "who is behind that" and so on, ad infinitum. So there again we run into more difficulties. I admitted before I was making a bet in the face of uncertaintly based on thinking about these things. I am not certain, nor do I need to be to cast a ratio

  139. Profile photo of xiquiripat
    xiquiripat Male 18-29
    2423 posts
    December 20, 2008 at 1:01 pm
    Rational judgement.
  140. Profile photo of Saklas
    Saklas Male 18-29
    5 posts
    December 20, 2008 at 1:03 pm
    About time. If only America could be so progressive.
  141. Profile photo of ilovewasabi
    ilovewasabi Female 18-29
    88 posts
    December 20, 2008 at 1:04 pm
    "this is terrible
    i am in no way anti-religious or religious but i agree with vagrant, this is not a schools place to teach"

    The class is an elective. It`s optional. It`s not like it`s mandatory or anything. I think it`s great that they`re teaching both sides of the matter.

  142. Profile photo of ilovewasabi
    ilovewasabi Female 18-29
    88 posts
    December 20, 2008 at 1:10 pm
    I don`t know why everyone is getting so upset over this. First of all, they`re not teaching that God does NOT exist. They`re just pointing out that there is no evidence that a God exists.
    Also, it`s an elective course. Not everyone has to take it. My school teaches eastern philosophy as an elective. It doesn`t mean that my school is biased towards any particular religion.
  143. Profile photo of Mitico
    Mitico Male 18-29
    45 posts
    December 20, 2008 at 1:14 pm
    I am 100% in favour of such classes. Since my early ages(when i was forced to attend religion classes and similar crap) to now i never understood why are there religion lessons where you are forced to pray and do many other pitiful things, and no class where atheists may go. If religion may be taught in schools, atheism should be taught aswell!
    Democracy guarantees you a freedom of will and choice in every aspect of your life, including religion.
  144. Profile photo of SilverThread
    SilverThread Male 30-39
    3435 posts
    December 20, 2008 at 1:24 pm
    Opinions do not make a good educational system. Children Shouldn`t be taught what to believe in schools. They can learn the History of it, or the Philosophy of it, but they shouldn`t be force fed the beliefs of anyone. Religious or otherwise.
  145. Profile photo of Poreka
    Poreka Female 13-17
    710 posts
    December 20, 2008 at 1:26 pm
    That`s just forcing your opinion on to some kids who probably don`t give a poo or are really religious and also don`t give a poo.

    "I dare you all to find solid proof that there is a god."

    I dare you to find solid proof that there is no god.

    I don`t think we`ll be able to know if there`s a god or not `til we make a time machine.

  146. Profile photo of Poreka
    Poreka Female 13-17
    710 posts
    December 20, 2008 at 1:31 pm
    "I am 100% in favour of such classes. Since my early ages(when i was forced to attend religion classes and similar crap) to now i never understood why are there religion lessons where you are forced to pray and do many other pitiful things, and no class where atheists may go. If religion may be taught in schools, atheism should be taught aswell!
    Democracy guarantees you a freedom of will and choice in every aspect of your life, including religion."

    But teaching atheism is basically that, but the opposite.
    The school I attend and the schools I have attended didn`t try to force religion on you. They might of taught you about various religions, like how they pray and about the god/gods they believe in and the history of it, and they allowed any students that had to pray during school to do so and anyone who bullied them because of their religion would be punished, but thankfully no one bullied anyone about it.

  147. Profile photo of Overmann
    Overmann Male 18-29
    2600 posts
    December 20, 2008 at 1:37 pm
    "...but in science the burden of proof always lies upon those making a positive claim."

    Not even just in science, but anytime, anywhere.

  148. Profile photo of astridhaze
    astridhaze Female 18-29
    738 posts
    December 20, 2008 at 1:38 pm
    I think this is a good idea; I would think a well-rounded religious studies class would include atheism just as much as theism from a number of different perspectives.

  149. Profile photo of lytesend
    lytesend Female 13-17
    194 posts
    December 20, 2008 at 1:59 pm
    I definately agree with Astridhaze, if you can have religious studies, you should be able to learn about atheism, that way, whatever you believe in, you can understand and learn from all sides.
  150. Profile photo of maceizballin
    maceizballin Male 13-17
    904 posts
    December 20, 2008 at 2:14 pm
    forcing religion down someone`s throat?
    it`s just as bad when you`re forcing anti-religions down someones throat.
  151. Profile photo of SirKevin
    SirKevin Male 13-17
    241 posts
    December 20, 2008 at 3:07 pm
    Teach it. By all means, teach it. If they`re religious, they don`t have to go. No harm done. And yeah, I`m atheist.
  152. Profile photo of Red5TheFinn
    Red5TheFinn Male 13-17
    1559 posts
    December 20, 2008 at 3:26 pm
    Well, as much as I wish everyone was an atheist, schools should strictly stick to the main subjects, Mathematics, LA, Science and Social. Religious or ANTI-Religious things should be left for the child to decide. It`s just as bad as schools shoving Christian propaganda down a child`s throat.
  153. Profile photo of LKJSlain
    LKJSlain Female 18-29
    648 posts
    December 20, 2008 at 3:43 pm
    www.godandscience.org/answers
  154. Profile photo of Overmann
    Overmann Male 18-29
    2600 posts
    December 20, 2008 at 4:05 pm
    "www.godandscience.org/answers"

    LKJSlain, how many times must you post that URL? You don`t bother returning to defend any criticisms against it and to me that suggests you don`t really care whether it offers any good, sound arguments but rather that your aim is to lure as many gulligble people to it as you possibly can. All around a cheap tactic that doesn`t reflect well on you.

  155. Profile photo of yoimmylene
    yoimmylene Female 13-17
    2066 posts
    December 20, 2008 at 4:27 pm
    I`m against this type of thing.
  156. Profile photo of Canine
    Canine Male 13-17
    142 posts
    December 20, 2008 at 4:43 pm
    Schools teaching this is just as bad as them teaching that god is real. Leave that to the parents.
  157. Profile photo of airsofter1
    airsofter1 Male 18-29
    1090 posts
    December 20, 2008 at 4:44 pm
    how can atheism be a subject? @Sir Kevin i dont think that will work. people need to go to school and public schools are the cheapest (inderectly) option. i dont understand how they will actually teach this either, there is no god, look evolution, we have proof. u can just say god started the big bang and if they come up for wutever started the big bang religous people can just say god started that and there is no way that you can prove that he didn`t or that he (or she, prob doesn`t have a sex) doesnt exist.
  158. Profile photo of kiteman53
    kiteman53 Male 18-29
    6 posts
    December 20, 2008 at 4:46 pm
    I didn`t realize this kinda thing was still that big a deal outside of the U.S. Going to a Canadian Catholic high school, we had courses which presented evidence for and against God.
  159. Profile photo of airsofter1
    airsofter1 Male 18-29
    1090 posts
    December 20, 2008 at 4:46 pm
    religion shouldn`t be in schools either and that includes wearing a sheet on your head. really lths i cant wear a cross but she can wear a sheet on her head in a no hats building? wtf?! i`m wearing my bomber hat which everyone at school gets pissed about cuz its real fur.
  160. Profile photo of outfire
    outfire Male 13-17
    524 posts
    December 20, 2008 at 5:07 pm
    Man, i`m an atheist and i think this is wrong. Schools should be totally neutral on the subject in my opinion. I do believe that they should still explain evolution, but explain that what the child wants to believe on the subject, or what the children`s parents want them to believe is valid. it annoys me when people try to shove atheism or theism down people`s throat, it`s just as bad either way.
  161. Profile photo of Xutar
    Xutar Male 13-17
    154 posts
    December 20, 2008 at 6:28 pm
    I think this is fine because the whole idea of learning and education is pretty much the opposite of faith and religion. If the school does its job properly and teaches the kids rational thought process and logic skills, this would be inevitable.
  162. Profile photo of Moonsteal72
    Moonsteal72 Female 13-17
    33 posts
    December 20, 2008 at 6:54 pm
    Man, i`m an atheist and i think this is wrong. Schools should be totally neutral on the subject in my opinion. I do believe that they should still explain evolution, but explain that what the child wants to believe on the subject, or what the children`s parents want them to believe is valid. it annoys me when people try to shove atheism or theism down people`s throat, it`s just as bad either way.

    ~*xox*~

    I kinda agree, kinda don`t here. If they want to get involved in religion, they should at least provide classes for all the major different types of religions out there. Or at least supply a class that will cover them all - their strengths and downfalls, their history, their beliefs and how they`re different from others. That would be a pretty interesting class that would keep learning and religion in balance, don`t you think?

  163. Profile photo of opiebreath
    opiebreath Female 18-29
    15782 posts
    December 20, 2008 at 7:29 pm
    In my anthropology class we learn why humans would believe in religion and that there`s no evidence for it. I think the class subject should dictate the spirituality taught. In a religion class they need to be taught on a clean slate, so yeah, assuming there is no god. In a philosophy class that would be different.

    I also think that the culture of Australia allows for this to happen, but not necessarily in America. Religion is a strong part of our culture and a lot of families would be very upset at their children learning this. In some cultures, all the schools are religion based.

    Moon, did you even read the article?

  164. Profile photo of undeadonion
    undeadonion Female 18-29
    213 posts
    December 20, 2008 at 9:22 pm
    Can you imagine the poostorm if it was in America? People still get their pretty pink panties in a wad about Harry Potter.
  165. Profile photo of Barbarossa69
    Barbarossa69 Male 18-29
    220 posts
    December 20, 2008 at 9:54 pm
    The people saying teaching this is as bad as teaching religion are a perfect example of why I`m agnostic, to be otherwise is presumptuous.
  166. Profile photo of gimysumlovin
    gimysumlovin Female 13-17
    173 posts
    December 20, 2008 at 10:04 pm
    I live in Victoria and the optional religious education is taught in government primary schools. Private schools/catholic/christian usually teach it but there isn`t anything at public high schools.
    I presume this new class will be only for primary school kiddies in public schools, and they will still run religion as well.
    Which isn`t much, and knowing our culture I doubt many will care. Religion aint big here.
    Still, I recon God should stay out of schools and they should teach more philosophy.
  167. Profile photo of SpoonFork
    SpoonFork Male 30-39
    1265 posts
    December 20, 2008 at 10:09 pm
    Should we fight hunger? Genocide? AIDS? Nah, let`s fight religious beliefs!

    Tards.

  168. Profile photo of Webz
    Webz Male 18-29
    542 posts
    December 21, 2008 at 5:37 am
    Like I`ve said before. Respect everyone`s opinion`s and beliefs. They have no right to teach that there is no God the same way they would have no right to teach that there is a God and not give athiest views.
  169. Profile photo of Overmann
    Overmann Male 18-29
    2600 posts
    December 21, 2008 at 7:41 am
    "Respect everyone`s opinion`s and beliefs."

    I think a necessary distinction should be made between respecting a person, respecting their right to believe what they will, and respecting specifically their belief. It is perfectly reasonable to simultaneously respect the former two and not the latter third. Do I need to respect the idea that all people are descended from two individuals? Do I need to respect the idea that certain thoughts and *only* thoughts can condemn me to an eternity of punishment? Do I need to respect the idea that there is such a thing as a heaven modelled after our own atmosphere? Finally, do I need to respect the idea that I am to believe all of the above with a distinct lack of evidence? All of these are blatantly ridiculous notions and don`t deserve to be respected in any rational society, and I should be free to think so as long as I`m not being a total jerk about it. I value honesty and criticism above all.

  170. Profile photo of mollacins14
    mollacins14 Female 13-17
    5 posts
    December 21, 2008 at 12:02 pm
    Living in one of the most highly populated christian counties in my state this sounds crazy to me. Although i don`t agree with some of the catholic political views, i do believe there has to be some sort of God. you can not prove or disprove god. like how you can not prove love. One of my religion teachers freshman year stated, you can not talk about good or evil without God or ending up with God. idk if this is true in its all entirety but i can`t think about good or evil with out the notion of God.
  171. Profile photo of EVL_VLT
    EVL_VLT Male 18-29
    12 posts
    December 21, 2008 at 2:06 pm
    At the end of the day why should children be taught something about a book that could have been written by anybody, about something supposedly someone did, and some miracles he supposadly amazed people with. There is no proff he ever existed, except a book that could have been written by anyone.

    Children should not be taught to believe in a fabricated piece of hope. Its 2008. not 1958. It should not be taught

  172. Profile photo of unbwogable
    unbwogable Male 18-29
    555 posts
    December 21, 2008 at 5:11 pm
    Whether or not there is or is not a God is NOT up to the school to decide and teach. If we aren`t allowed to teach that there IS a God, why are we allowed to teach that there ISN`T a God?
  173. Profile photo of Overmann
    Overmann Male 18-29
    2600 posts
    December 21, 2008 at 11:25 pm
    "idk if this is true in its all entirety but i can`t think about good or evil with out the notion of God."

    To you I would very strongly recommend reading `The Selfish Gene` by Richard Dawkins. You may be intimidated or hesitant to read Dawkins, given his reputation, but in this book he doesn`t venture so much into the question of God or atheistic rants, but more biology and how the inherent trait of our genes as `selfish` can explain altruism, which ultimately is what morality is.

  174. Profile photo of RebelSpeaker
    RebelSpeaker Female 13-17
    60 posts
    December 29, 2008 at 12:51 pm
    I really don`t think that they should bring things up like that in school, unless it`s a private school or a church school.That can be considered racist, in a way, so it`s stupid.
  175. Profile photo of Hyenafreak
    Hyenafreak Female 18-29
    3 posts
    December 29, 2008 at 10:59 pm
    There is no scientific evidence of God. That`s obvious, yeah?
    Props, Australia.
  176. Profile photo of LonelyStoner
    LonelyStoner Male 18-29
    15 posts
    May 21, 2009 at 6:25 pm
    I believe in a "God" but religion should be kept out of ALL public schools for obvious reasons. But science is the more reliable source then some old book, but we still have no evident proof that there is no god cause it`s impossible to know. I would teach from an agnostic view and bring up both creation and "Big Bang" to let the kids decide what`s more plausible.

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