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Date: 10/10/08 06:58 PM

176 Responses to Palin Guilty of Abusing Her Power

  1. Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12151 posts
    October 10, 2008 at 6:23 pm
    Link: Palin Guilty of Abusing Her Power - Goddamn, even lowly I-A-B Mods know you don`t just ban someone for disagreeing with your view...
  2. Profile photo of opiebreath
    opiebreath Female 18-29
    15782 posts
    October 10, 2008 at 7:00 pm
    A picture of Palin should be in the dictionary next to the word, "facepalm".

    Uuuuuggghhh...

    HOW DO YOU THINK SHE CAN BE A GOOD VP!? HOW!? I ASK YOU!

  3. Profile photo of patthebaker
    patthebaker Male 18-29
    1768 posts
    October 10, 2008 at 7:04 pm

    The worlds drated isnt it

  4. Profile photo of TheSharpest
    TheSharpest Male 18-29
    1768 posts
    October 10, 2008 at 7:08 pm
    *Waits for PTK to excuse Palin*
  5. Profile photo of KeePay
    KeePay Male 18-29
    494 posts
    October 10, 2008 at 7:10 pm
    God f***ing dammit McCain, just throw her out.

    Palin turned me from moderate Republican to an independent in only a month. She`s one of the dumbest people I`ve ever seen in my life.

  6. Profile photo of primetimekin
    primetimekin Male 18-29
    7936 posts
    October 10, 2008 at 7:11 pm
    "*Waits for PTK to excuse Palin*"

    "even lowly I-A-B Mods know you don`t just ban someone for disagreeing with your view..."

    How many Mods have there been in IAB history?
    How many VP`s have there been?

    Exactly.

  7. Profile photo of Deepeyes
    Deepeyes Male 18-29
    151 posts
    October 10, 2008 at 7:13 pm
    KeePay
    "She`s one of the dumbest people I`ve ever seen in my life."

    What about... you know.. our current president?

  8. Profile photo of buttersrules
    buttersrules Male 40-49
    287 posts
    October 10, 2008 at 7:16 pm
    "Goddamn, even lowly I-A-B Mods know you don`t just ban someone for disagreeing with your view..."

    So wheres Lionhart2 these days? ;)

  9. Profile photo of Gunit1
    Gunit1 Female 13-17
    851 posts
    October 10, 2008 at 7:19 pm
    ok, she is a dumb-poo
    She voted AGAINST abortions for girls raped buy their dads
    Ya, she makes a great VP.

    If she has the authority to fire somebody, imagine wat she`d do to the ever-falling economy, the jobs and our future?

  10. Profile photo of peloos12
    peloos12 Male 18-29
    3825 posts
    October 10, 2008 at 7:19 pm
    Death blow.
  11. Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12151 posts
    October 10, 2008 at 7:21 pm
    vv "Goddamn, even lowly I-A-B Mods know you don`t just ban someone for disagreeing with your view..."

    So wheres Lionhart2 these days? ;)

    Butters, excuse me, but Lionhart is alive and well and voicing his opinions, unless I`m mistaken, despite individual piss-offs.

  12. Profile photo of primetimekin
    primetimekin Male 18-29
    7936 posts
    October 10, 2008 at 7:22 pm
    "So wheres Lionhart2 these days? ;)"

    *pulls out mod-gun

  13. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5387 posts
    October 10, 2008 at 7:26 pm
    Isn`t this old news that was already resolved?
  14. Profile photo of starrstreet
    starrstreet Female 18-29
    402 posts
    October 10, 2008 at 7:26 pm
    HAHAH, what a suprise... Hopefully they`ll make new legislation to prevent something like this from happening again. We can call it the Sarah Palin Laws.
  15. Profile photo of buttersrules
    buttersrules Male 40-49
    287 posts
    October 10, 2008 at 7:27 pm
    Just wondered, davy, cos his account appears to have been closed.....hot on the heels of a major spit in another thread. (where I will admit, he was a bit out of order).
  16. Profile photo of yen223
    yen223 Male 18-29
    342 posts
    October 10, 2008 at 7:29 pm
    Kinda cute, 5 weeks into her nomination and she already is embroiled in a scandal.

    Who says she doesn`t have experience?

  17. Profile photo of KeePay
    KeePay Male 18-29
    494 posts
    October 10, 2008 at 7:34 pm
    "What about... you know.. our current president?"

    Augh, come on. It`s no longer funny; it`s been SO OVERUSED. Sure, he wasn`t all that smart, but he isn`t the complete and utter waste of space that Palin is.

  18. Profile photo of almightybob1
    almightybob1 Male 18-29
    4290 posts
    October 10, 2008 at 7:36 pm
    "Isn`t this old news that was already resolved?"

    Considering the article was posted on the BBC website a few hours ago... no.

    And considering she`s trying to become one of the most powerful politicians in the world, don`t you think her morals and ethics are quite important?

  19. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5387 posts
    October 10, 2008 at 7:39 pm
    yeah because you know.. British Broadcasting is really up to date with US affairs.
  20. Profile photo of almightybob1
    almightybob1 Male 18-29
    4290 posts
    October 10, 2008 at 7:40 pm
    *finishes stalking davymid on his website*

    Did you ever know Pete Kallos? He used to work for Enterprise. Old family friend.

  21. Profile photo of starrstreet
    starrstreet Female 18-29
    402 posts
    October 10, 2008 at 7:42 pm
    I got a CNN alert to my phone when this happened so its really recent.
  22. Profile photo of peloos12
    peloos12 Male 18-29
    3825 posts
    October 10, 2008 at 7:42 pm
    I hate to defend the guy but Bush is just a horrible speaker. Palin is actually ignorant.
  23. Profile photo of almightybob1
    almightybob1 Male 18-29
    4290 posts
    October 10, 2008 at 7:44 pm
    If you can find a news service that reports on world affairs more consistently and accurately than the BBC, please direct me to it.
  24. Profile photo of Llamaz
    Llamaz Male 13-17
    339 posts
    October 10, 2008 at 7:44 pm
    Think about it. How much win do you gain for shooting things with a sniper rifle out of a helicopter? Over 9,000. Go Palin. Okay, maybe that isn`t the best reason...

    "She voted AGAINST abortions for girls raped buy their dads"
    Also, this is completely paraphrased. She is anti-abortion, period. That would be like saying "Obama wants people to not have a job and recieve healthcare for doing nothing but popping out spawn." But without the paraphrasing on the Obama comment.

  25. Profile photo of starrstreet
    starrstreet Female 18-29
    402 posts
    October 10, 2008 at 7:48 pm
    Hey, Llamaz, this isn`t 4chan
  26. Profile photo of almightybob1
    almightybob1 Male 18-29
    4290 posts
    October 10, 2008 at 7:48 pm
    CNN article on the same story is here. It was only posted 6 minutes ago, almost 2 hours after the BBC report. Still think British broadcasting is too slow elkingo?
  27. Profile photo of Llamaz
    Llamaz Male 13-17
    339 posts
    October 10, 2008 at 7:48 pm
    Also, the person she sacked wouldn`t fire someone who tased a nine year old boy with his police taser while he was drunk. How was that not a perfectly fine reason to sack a person?
  28. Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12151 posts
    October 10, 2008 at 7:49 pm
    vv "*finishes stalking davymid on his website* Did you ever know Pete Kallos?"

    Nah mate, unfortunately not. I was the last one in through the doors before Enterprise Oil got taken over by Shell Oil, didn`t get to know too many people, sadly.

  29. Profile photo of Llamaz
    Llamaz Male 13-17
    339 posts
    October 10, 2008 at 7:49 pm
    "Hey, Llamaz, this isn`t 4chan"
    Sorry, I forgot.
  30. Profile photo of boredest1
    boredest1 Male 18-29
    556 posts
    October 10, 2008 at 7:50 pm
    Anyone read the article on Palin in the latest Rolling Stone issue? What an amusing rant THAT was...
  31. Profile photo of Llamaz
    Llamaz Male 13-17
    339 posts
    October 10, 2008 at 7:50 pm
    Otra más batalla política.
  32. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5387 posts
    October 10, 2008 at 7:52 pm
    Well, it is new, but its still just mud-slinging.
  33. Profile photo of starrstreet
    starrstreet Female 18-29
    402 posts
    October 10, 2008 at 7:57 pm
    "Well, it is new, but its still just mud-slinging."

    Well, unlike other mud-slinging this is actually very important and relevant. If she had abused her power as governor of Alaska then the "power" of the VP position could go to her head even more. Dangerous.

  34. Profile photo of Maelstrom_x
    Maelstrom_x Male 18-29
    1883 posts
    October 10, 2008 at 7:58 pm
    "Palin abused power, probe finds"
    *later on in the article*
    "However, the report said that Mrs Palin had not exceeded her powers when she sacked Mr Monegan."

    lol wut? BBC should word things more good.

    I really don`t even care, I`m not voting for President this year. McCain is a terrible pick for the Republican party, I seriously facepalmed hard when he won the primary. As for Obama, I see 90% of the crap spewing out of his mouth never even happening, he`s just riding on disgruntled voters and telling them what they want to hear to win the election. This isn`t true just for Obama, it is true for most candidates in general, and no, Obama is not different.

    *Obama did pick a better VP running mate.
    *Obama will most likely win the election.
    *Obama would have probably lost against Romney.

  35. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5387 posts
    October 10, 2008 at 8:04 pm
    "Well, unlike other mud-slinging this is actually very important and relevant. If she had abused her power as governor of Alaska then the "power" of the VP position could go to her head even more. Dangerous."

    Did they mention that Wooten had given her father a death threat? No. Did they mention its an ethical argument where Palin did not receive financial aide? No. Was it illegal? Not yet.

    My conclusion.. mud slinging.

  36. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5387 posts
    October 10, 2008 at 8:08 pm
    Oh to clarify, it would have been illegal if Palin would have made a financial gain from firing him. They only found her guilty also, because she didn`t come to court for trial.. because she was campaigning.. it was instigated by democrats to slander her name.. to which I say bravo. How can you expect someone to come to court in a case where they don`t have to because of their office, and someone that has good political reason to not show up.. Its not that serious of a deal, she fired some guy.. was it ethical? Probably not. Would you want someone working for you who didn`t take orders though? I wouldn`t. I am probably ranting.. but I am just getting tired of propaganda.
  37. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5387 posts
    October 10, 2008 at 8:09 pm
    "BBC should word things more good."

    lol

    More good indeed!

  38. Profile photo of almightybob1
    almightybob1 Male 18-29
    4290 posts
    October 10, 2008 at 8:12 pm
    "Nah mate, unfortunately not. I was the last one in through the doors before Enterprise Oil got taken over by Shell Oil, didn`t get to know too many people, sadly."

    Ah well, bit of a long shot really. He had moved into the HR side I think, whereas you seem to be at the business end. He`s with Petro-Canada now, running the European side of the business.

  39. Profile photo of almightybob1
    almightybob1 Male 18-29
    4290 posts
    October 10, 2008 at 8:14 pm
    "it was instigated by democrats to slander her name"

    From the article:
    "The investigation into the affair began before Mr McCain selected Mrs Palin as his running mate in August."

  40. Profile photo of starrstreet
    starrstreet Female 18-29
    402 posts
    October 10, 2008 at 8:14 pm
    elkingo, it was unethical and an abuse of power, period, lol, I don`t know what you are arguing about. Is it illegal, no not YET, but I`m sure new legislation will come out of this.

    Do I want someone who has abused her power as my potential president? Absolutely not. Bottom line. Try as hard as you want to defend this, it is just too far a stretch.

  41. Profile photo of Gleeballs
    Gleeballs Female 18-29
    850 posts
    October 10, 2008 at 8:16 pm
    i smell political bull SHT
  42. Profile photo of starrstreet
    starrstreet Female 18-29
    402 posts
    October 10, 2008 at 8:17 pm
    almightybob1, what? This investigation was going on before he picked her as his running mate, that is just straight up FACT. I don`t know what context that quote was in but I think the way you put it is probably misleading.
  43. Profile photo of orionsbelt
    orionsbelt Male 18-29
    151 posts
    October 10, 2008 at 8:19 pm
    elkingo...how is campaigning an excuse for not showing up for court...what the hell campaigning has she done???

    all she does is give speeches in front of stupids who cheer every time she calls Obama a terrorist.

    now if she would actually answer questions or do something constructive, then i would see her missing court...

    and its funny how you know she is only guilty for not going to court...but the BBC somehow didn`t know this pertinent detail

  44. Profile photo of almightybob1
    almightybob1 Male 18-29
    4290 posts
    October 10, 2008 at 8:20 pm
    starstreet: I know, I`m agreeing with you. *is confused*

    I quoted elkingo saying it was instigated by democrats, then quoted the BBC article disproving his claim. I think you might have got them mixed up maybe.

  45. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5387 posts
    October 10, 2008 at 8:21 pm
    Branchflower wrote. "In spite of that, Governor Palin`s firing of Commissioner Monegan was a proper and lawful exercise of her constitutional and statutory authority to hire and fire executive branch department heads."

    "state Sen. Hollis French, a Democrat, who managed the investigation"

    "The Republican report said the Palins had "good reason" to raise concerns about Wooten because he has a "long history of unstable and erratic behavior, including drinking beer in his squad car, killing moose illegally, using a Taser on his 10-year-old stepson and threatening to kill a member of the Palin family," and that he "claims of being above the law due to his trooper status.""

  46. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5387 posts
    October 10, 2008 at 8:22 pm
    http://www.mercurynews.com/elections/ci_10692757
  47. Profile photo of almightybob1
    almightybob1 Male 18-29
    4290 posts
    October 10, 2008 at 8:23 pm
    "I find that Governor Sarah Palin abused her power by violating Alaska Statute 39.52.110 (a) of the Alaska Executive Branch Ethics Act," investigator Steve Branchflower concluded in the panel`s 263-page report.


    - I find it hard to misinterpret the conclusion of the report (i.e. the overall verdict). She abused her power.

  48. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5387 posts
    October 10, 2008 at 8:27 pm
    It still political bull crap.. and you know it. Its just mud slinging.
  49. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5387 posts
    October 10, 2008 at 8:29 pm
    "The report will go to the Republican-dominated state legislature for possible further action."

    I guess we will wait and see what happens when it gets out of democrat courts eh?

  50. Profile photo of almightybob1
    almightybob1 Male 18-29
    4290 posts
    October 10, 2008 at 8:29 pm
    LOL elkingo, that first quote is the ONLY quote in that entire article which in any way reflects well on Palin, and the part of it you omitted says she fired the guy partly because of his refusal to do what she wanted.

    Your second quote is from the Republican`s own investigation, which unsurprisingly came back in favour of Palin.

    And you neglected the quote from that article where Branchflower dismissed Wooten`s `threats`:

    "Branchflower also dismissed the Palins` assertions that they were afraid of Wooten because of threats they said he made. "Such claims of fear were not bona fide and were offered to provide cover for the Palins` real motivation: to get Trooper Wooten fired for personal family related reasons," he wrote. "

  51. Profile photo of almightybob1
    almightybob1 Male 18-29
    4290 posts
    October 10, 2008 at 8:31 pm
    "It still political bull crap.. and you know it. Its just mud slinging."

    Impressive, then, that the Democrats knew to prepare this mud-slinging in advance, before she ever became McCain`s running partner. That level of organisation would convince me to vote Democrat.

  52. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5387 posts
    October 10, 2008 at 8:31 pm
    I did like the part where citizens and what not showed up to the hearing wearing clown noses in protest.

    Why would I post things in contrast to what I am arguing?

    Oh hey, it would be swell if you posted some republican things.

  53. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5387 posts
    October 10, 2008 at 8:33 pm
    "The legislative committee unanimously began the investigation in July. Palin had promised to cooperate, but after becoming McCain`s running mate, she changed course, saying the inquiry was politically tainted. She declined to answer Branchflower`s questions, and she started a parallel investigation before the state personnel board, which she appoints. Republican lawmakers sued to stop the investigation, but state courts rejected the request."

    That unwillingness to work bipartisan is what I was referring to.

  54. Profile photo of almightybob1
    almightybob1 Male 18-29
    4290 posts
    October 10, 2008 at 8:36 pm
    "Why would I post things in contrast to what I am arguing?"

    I suggest that next time you either:
    1) Take quotes in context
    2) don`t quote your sources if the entire rest of the article disagrees with you, so as to avoid supplying the opposition with armloads of ammunition just to secure your one bullet.

  55. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5387 posts
    October 10, 2008 at 8:43 pm
    I feel if you read the entire article you get a better feel of what happened, which most people won`t, so I cherry picked the items I wanted to emphasize. I think it is rather important to show that the things you are hearing about are strictly from a Democrat side. (which is why I call it mud slinging.) It was timed out perfectly, and they refused to work bipartisan, which is suspicious. It moves up to a republican controlled court, which we will see what happens there. The people of the state call it a "circus". The republicans hold their ground as to why she fired him, and it was within her rights and power to fire him, all they proved was that it was unethical, mind you in a democrat court.
  56. Profile photo of starrstreet
    starrstreet Female 18-29
    402 posts
    October 10, 2008 at 8:43 pm
    almightybob1 I APOLOGIZE, read it wrong, but yeah you are right! lol I was like what the heck is he talkinnnnng about.
  57. Profile photo of peloos12
    peloos12 Male 18-29
    3825 posts
    October 10, 2008 at 8:45 pm
    Holy crap. 85% of this page is posts from elkingo and almightybob1.
  58. Profile photo of starrstreet
    starrstreet Female 18-29
    402 posts
    October 10, 2008 at 8:46 pm
    Yeah and I don`t like it cause both their avatars are white and it is confusing me lol.
  59. Profile photo of almightybob1
    almightybob1 Male 18-29
    4290 posts
    October 10, 2008 at 8:49 pm
    Starrstreet: No worries, easy mistake to make :)

    elkingo: The article you found says
    ""Governor Palin knowingly permitted a situation to continue where impermissible pressure was placed on several subordinates in order to advance a personal agenda, to wit: To get Trooper Michael Wooten fired," said the report released by a bipartisan legislative committee. "

    So this report WAS released by a bipartisan committee, not a Democrat-only one. And it was Palin who refused to cooperate despite earlier promises, not any Democrats.

    How could the timing be `suspicious`? No-one would have known at the time that Palin was going to be McCain`s running-mate, except possibly some Republicans high up in the party, if he had even chosen at that point.

    And when the whole article is read, it seems clear that Palin is in the wrong, but that the Republicans are blindly insisting there was nothing wrong with her conduct.

    You`re clutching at straws here mate.

  60. Profile photo of almightybob1
    almightybob1 Male 18-29
    4290 posts
    October 10, 2008 at 8:51 pm
    That article is gold for Democrats really elkingo, you shouldn`t have posted it :D
  61. Profile photo of habbazoot
    habbazoot
    2132 posts
    October 10, 2008 at 8:55 pm
    Nader `08!
  62. Profile photo of LoofahBoy
    LoofahBoy Male 18-29
    3302 posts
    October 10, 2008 at 9:01 pm
    I want to see Palin naked.
  63. Profile photo of Maximus_
    Maximus_ Male 18-29
    57 posts
    October 10, 2008 at 9:10 pm
    Stephen Colbert & Vladimir Pudin 08!
  64. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5387 posts
    October 10, 2008 at 9:14 pm
    Yes, but the investigation was lead by Branchflower, and over seen by Sen. Hollis French, both dems. And the courts that denied the suit to stop the investigation are democrat courts. So, thats why I conclude a refusal to work bipartisan.

    The timing is also suspicious for this same reasoning.. why not slow down and work together? Perhaps so they could get it out before election day? Although, it was scheduled for one day before the election.. Its probably more detrimental now, because it wont have time to reach the state legistator.

  65. Profile photo of cahalla
    cahalla Female 18-29
    961 posts
    October 10, 2008 at 9:33 pm
    agreed w. elkingo. seriously. and when you read through the whhole thing EVERYTHING says theres inconclusive evidence that there was any type of fowl play except spending cuts that had been happening for MONTHS, until the decision, then all of a sudden out of a bunch of inconclusions, they have BAD.
  66. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    October 10, 2008 at 10:03 pm
    I`m like, So What ?, About this. The trooper involved was her brother-in-law that was beating his wife (Sarah`s sister).

    Personally I believe any police officer or state trooper that`s caught abusing their spouse should be immediately put on leave and investigated, At the very least. If found guilty of the offense they should loose their job.

    Monegan wasn`t doing his job, Period. It should`ve been a no brainer, Cop beats wife -> Investigate -> If guilty, Fire him.

    Instead Monegan refuses to do his job and gets fired himself. So it was his own fault, No impropriety there at all.

  67. Profile photo of pat125
    pat125 Male 18-29
    756 posts
    October 10, 2008 at 10:20 pm
    What a crock of sh*t. One of the leaders of the investigation, Sen. Hollis French, was quoted as saying it will be an "October surprise" for McCain. And it goes without saying that Ms. French is a Democrat and a supporter of Barack Obama.

    This whole investigation was tainted, and if anything I support her even more now.

    McCain Palin 08!

  68. Profile photo of Vagrant86
    Vagrant86 Male 18-29
    2557 posts
    October 10, 2008 at 10:23 pm
    and nobody was surprised...
  69. Profile photo of pat125
    pat125 Male 18-29
    756 posts
    October 10, 2008 at 10:24 pm
    And while we`re on the topic of ethics violations, what about all the corrupt Chicago cronies Obama`s connected with...and what about Ayers, A TERRORIST who helped Obama launch his political career in his OWN LIVING ROOM!!!

    But no one gives 2 halves of a sh*t because he`s Obama and the media has already declared him President. The democratic machine in this country is so corrupt it makes me sick (just take a look at ACORN, registering thousands of fraudulent votes).

    This country is going to sh*t.

  70. Profile photo of Luca85
    Luca85 Male 18-29
    24 posts
    October 10, 2008 at 10:34 pm
    I think there is a problem if she is charged with an ethics violation, before she is in the White House. I mean at least wait a couple months or years for that. What happens inside peoples homes should not influence what happens in the workplace. As for those who try to discredit Bill Ayers listen to this. While he did plan terrorists attacks in the late 60s and early 70s (when Obama was just growing up), he has since become a distinguished professor, a member of the board on the Woods Foundation of Chicago, a anti-poverty philanthropic group. He met Obama while working with him on the Chicago Annenberg Challenge, that helped inner city schools get the money they needed. Walter Annenberg who gave much of the money for the Challenge and was a huge part of the Challenge, was a life long Republican who was very good friends with Ronald Reagan.
  71. Profile photo of Benjaphar
    Benjaphar Male 30-39
    108 posts
    October 10, 2008 at 10:34 pm
    Pat, wake up. A bi-partisan committee with a republican majority voted unanimously to proceed with the investigation. What the hell do you want? But I`ll stop. If you`re a blind Palin supporter at this point in the campaign, you`ll find a way to excuse anything that she does or is.
  72. Profile photo of lemmingboy15
    lemmingboy15 Male 18-29
    635 posts
    October 10, 2008 at 11:27 pm
    "But no one gives 2 halves of a sh*t because he`s Obama and the media has already declared him President. The democratic machine in this country is so corrupt it makes me sick
    This country is going to sh*t. "
    this should seriously be put on a plaque...
    im seriously dreading the next 4 years if obama gets elected.
  73. Profile photo of lemmingboy15
    lemmingboy15 Male 18-29
    635 posts
    October 10, 2008 at 11:27 pm
    hmmmm i put seriously twice... guess i was pretty serious .
  74. Profile photo of AndroidMetro
    AndroidMetro Male 18-29
    807 posts
    October 11, 2008 at 12:47 am
    I thought that`s why people get into politics?.
  75. Profile photo of HachiSanJu
    HachiSanJu Male 18-29
    64 posts
    October 11, 2008 at 4:36 am
    I`m not gonna get to deep into this, but if you wanna talk corruption, Obama may be a little corrupted, but McCain is FAR worse. If you want my reasoning, look up the Keating Five.
  76. Profile photo of HachiSanJu
    HachiSanJu Male 18-29
    64 posts
    October 11, 2008 at 4:39 am
    By the way, BBC is British, not Democrat or Republican, so yeah it`s not some Democrat scheme.

  77. Profile photo of almightybob1
    almightybob1 Male 18-29
    4290 posts
    October 11, 2008 at 6:10 am
    "The trooper involved was her brother-in-law that was beating his wife (Sarah`s sister)."

    If that did happen, why wasn`t the guy fired? If the sister had hard evidence, why didn`t she prosecute? Considering Palin`s position, she should not have gotten involved if the investigation was dropped.

    I`ll quote again from elkingo`s article (cheers again mate):

    - "Governor Palin knowingly permitted a situation to continue where impermissible pressure was placed on several subordinates in order to advance a personal agenda, to wit: To get Trooper Michael Wooten fired," said the report released by a bipartisan legislative committee.

    - The report said Palin knew that "the disciplinary investigation was closed and could not be reopened. Yet she allowed the pressure from her husband, to try to get Trooper Wooten fired, to continue unabated over a several month-period of time."

  78. Profile photo of almightybob1
    almightybob1 Male 18-29
    4290 posts
    October 11, 2008 at 6:10 am
    ... and again:

    -
    - Branchflower also dismissed the Palins` assertions that they were afraid of Wooten because of threats they said he made. "Such claims of fear were not bona fide and were offered to provide cover for the Palins` real motivation: to get Trooper Wooten fired for personal family related reasons," he wrote.

  79. Profile photo of riathrift
    riathrift Female 18-29
    79 posts
    October 11, 2008 at 6:11 am
    I read an article about this issue, although the wording was different, last week. So yeah, it is old. I knew it before coming here, and have been asleep for the last 8 hours.

    Took me a minute, but the first mentions of this I can find are from Thursday. Seattle Times (it starts with an issue of `did she put a seat belt on her son, turns out the accuser is the guy who lost his job) the second is CBS news, stating the inqury into the `Troopergate` issue will go on.

  80. Profile photo of riathrift
    riathrift Female 18-29
    79 posts
    October 11, 2008 at 6:11 am
    **That should say "within the last week", not "last week"
  81. Profile photo of almightybob1
    almightybob1 Male 18-29
    4290 posts
    October 11, 2008 at 6:14 am
    "What a crock of sh*t. One of the leaders of the investigation, Sen. Hollis French, was quoted as saying it will be an "October surprise" for McCain. And it goes without saying that Ms. French is a Democrat and a supporter of Barack Obama. "


    That same senator moved the release of the report forward to prevent it being released the day before the election, when it would undoubtedly have been even more damaging to the McCain/Palin campaign.

    From elkingo`s article:
    "state Sen. Hollis French, a Democrat, who managed the investigation, said its release was moved to Friday so it would not come on the eve of the Nov. 4 election. "


    This is the problem with a two-party system. You can never trust the results of any political investigation, because narrow-minded people will clutch at straws and either:
    1) dismiss the report if it isn`t overseen by their own party
    2) swear blind that it`s 100% accurate if it is.

  82. Profile photo of starrstreet
    starrstreet Female 18-29
    402 posts
    October 11, 2008 at 6:16 am
    "and what about Ayers, A TERRORIST who helped Obama launch his political career in his OWN LIVING ROOM!!!"

    That is so fcking ignorant. Yeah, he was a 60`s radical and got reprimanded for what he did. He finished his sentence, did what he was supposed to do and then when he was out he went on an education board to help out Chicago! He isn`t a radical anymore and actually rehabilitated after jail.

    So... you guys say that once a criminal has gone to jail, we should always see them as a criminal even when they have turned themselves around and devoted their life to helping improve education?

    Okay so using your same reasoning with the Obama Ayres thing, try to defend Sarah Palin and her husband Todd who was in the Alaskan Independence Party. Lets see this...

    Oh and btw I don`t give a poo about what he thought 7 years ago, he doesn`t think it now right? BUT lets use the same reasoning with Obama and Ayers.

  83. Profile photo of kittyloaf
    kittyloaf Male 18-29
    214 posts
    October 11, 2008 at 6:27 am
    It was a partisan committee! Too bad for Palin there were more Republicans on it than Democrats...
  84. Profile photo of starrstreet
    starrstreet Female 18-29
    402 posts
    October 11, 2008 at 6:30 am
    "there were more Republicans on it than Democrats" Haha they have absolutely no argument.
  85. Profile photo of tuxman4
    tuxman4 Male 13-17
    368 posts
    October 11, 2008 at 6:56 am
    "So... you guys say that once a criminal has gone to jail, we should always see them as a criminal even when they have turned themselves around and devoted their life to helping improve education? "

    Um, yes? If he did it once, what makes you think he won`t do it again?

  86. Profile photo of orionsbelt
    orionsbelt Male 18-29
    151 posts
    October 11, 2008 at 6:59 am

  87. Profile photo of gorgack2000
    gorgack2000 Male 13-17
    4683 posts
    October 11, 2008 at 6:59 am
    ...And suddenly I`m finding myself rooting for Obama.
  88. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5387 posts
    October 11, 2008 at 7:01 am
    OOh yay analogy time!

    If someone was say a pedophile, would you let him on the school board after he served his time?

    Well, a terrorist shouldn`t be allowed into our politics time servered or not.

  89. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5387 posts
    October 11, 2008 at 7:02 am
    Whats great is someone with virtually no political history, and communist beliefs has a shot at running our nation.

  90. Profile photo of Llamaz
    Llamaz Male 13-17
    339 posts
    October 11, 2008 at 7:07 am
    Ayers has said that he didn`t plan enough bombings of the pentagon and other governmental buildings, while also stating that if he had the chance to go back, he would do the same, but with more bombings. I`m so tired of Obama`s excuse that he was growing up when these bombings were done. Wait, so does that mean Obama thinks that anything before he was an adult doesn`t matter? He still was a terrorist, whether or not Obama was born.

    Done.

  91. Profile photo of Llamaz
    Llamaz Male 13-17
    339 posts
    October 11, 2008 at 7:10 am
    I would understand if Ayers would just admit that his bombings were wrong, but he STILL DOESN`T. That shows that he still isn`t over his whiny rebellious hippy days.
  92. Profile photo of Llamaz
    Llamaz Male 13-17
    339 posts
    October 11, 2008 at 7:11 am
    Apparently, I wasn`t done.
  93. Profile photo of orionsbelt
    orionsbelt Male 18-29
    151 posts
    October 11, 2008 at 7:17 am
    hardcore republicans refuse to admit how much their candidates suck...McCain WAS good, then he sold his values to be president

    every time something bad surfaces about either of them, conservatives dismiss it as "liberal" media bias, then listen to bill o`reilly lull them to sleep

    i know obama isn`t perfect, and i won`t claim that he and biden have done things i don`t like...but it is clear that palin was a pure publicity move. he republicans thought their party and clinton supporters were so dumb that any woman would do

    no they will pay for their stupidity with the election...now hopefully we can leave rednecks behind and america can move forward as a nation

  94. Profile photo of starrstreet
    starrstreet Female 18-29
    402 posts
    October 11, 2008 at 7:17 am
    I can`t argue anymore with stupid people on IAB. You all have some fcking stupid logic, "Um, yes? If he did it once, what makes you think he won`t do it again?" Then why do we let criminals out of prison?

    Ayers now has devoted his career to improving the education system in Chicago and has done nothing but help that city which is more than most of you have done and will do in your lifetime. You are all very ignorant people and I feel sorry you.

    Don`t even respond to this, fcking useless.

  95. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5387 posts
    October 11, 2008 at 7:19 am
    "Don`t even respond to this, fcking useless."

    Because profanity emphasizes your points so well.

  96. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5387 posts
    October 11, 2008 at 7:22 am
    What if he isn`t rehabilitated? What if he is just waiting his time to try again? What if he plans another attack?


    Rather than rely on "what if`s" we don`t take that chance at all?

  97. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5387 posts
    October 11, 2008 at 7:25 am
    ""there were more Republicans on it than Democrats" Haha they have absolutely no argument.""

    Friday, October 10, 2008 9:14:46 PM
    Yes, but the investigation was lead by Branchflower, and over seen by Sen. Hollis French, both dems. And the courts that denied the suit to stop the investigation are democrat courts. So, thats why I conclude a refusal to work bipartisan.

  98. Profile photo of starrstreet
    starrstreet Female 18-29
    402 posts
    October 11, 2008 at 7:27 am
    elkingo, please stop posting, you sound like an idiot, I`m truly embarrassed for you. What is this a 3rd world country, locking up prisoners forever? What you just said is totally un-American.

    Does anyone else see the ignorance in that last comment he made?

  99. Profile photo of almightybob1
    almightybob1 Male 18-29
    4290 posts
    October 11, 2008 at 7:28 am
    "Rather than rely on "what if`s" we don`t take that chance at all?"

    Then every crime, however small, would carry a life sentence.
    No point releasing that pickpocket, he`ll just do it again.
    Might as well take every dollar that guy has, he`ll just keep getting parking fines.

  100. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5387 posts
    October 11, 2008 at 7:29 am
    lol, you are the ignorant one, wanting to grant ex-cons positions of power.. not just ex-cons but ex-TERRORISTS. lol I don`t see why you can`t get that.

    Yeah, give him his freedom, but don`t allow him to have power.

  101. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5387 posts
    October 11, 2008 at 7:30 am
    This isn`t a black or white situation like you are suggesting. There is a grey area where he isn`t in jail, and doesn`t hold an office of power. Why can`t you see that?

    Doesn`t really matter, because about 90% of America already sees it.. thats wht ex-cons work at a McJob.

  102. Profile photo of almightybob1
    almightybob1 Male 18-29
    4290 posts
    October 11, 2008 at 7:31 am
    If it`s better not to take any chances, shouldn`t we just lock the President up, since he`ll probably drink drive again?
  103. Profile photo of starrstreet
    starrstreet Female 18-29
    402 posts
    October 11, 2008 at 7:32 am
    Who worked to stop the investigation and why!? Please answer that. Why was the investigation tried to be stopped when it was already taking place with a committee that actually had more republicans than democrats?

    Oh no, because the truth hurts? =\

    I really don`t expect you to understand what I am saying, but anyone else in here with a brain will understand the logic.

  104. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5387 posts
    October 11, 2008 at 7:32 am
    No, just the serious crimes should hold a life sentence.. and should be on a crime register..

    Pedophillia
    Rape
    Murder
    Terrorism
    ect.

    as opposed to:
    Running a red light
    littering
    loitering
    ect


    To think, you guys think I`m ignorant. You really can`t see a difference there?

  105. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5387 posts
    October 11, 2008 at 7:34 am
    "Who worked to stop the investigation and why!? Please answer that. Why was the investigation tried to be stopped when it was already taking place with a committee that actually had more republicans than democrats..." but, was ran by democrats in democrat courts.

    Had to add the bit you left out. It makes more sense that way.

  106. Profile photo of starrstreet
    starrstreet Female 18-29
    402 posts
    October 11, 2008 at 7:35 am
    Who is giving William Ayers a position of power!? Why are you confusing Obama and Ayers? Ayers is NOT running for the presidency, Obama is, and Obama was never a radical in the 60`s blowing sht up! He worked with a man who was on the Chicago education board who was doing good things for the city. You can`t ignore all the good things that Ayers was doing which he was doing while Obama knew him.
  107. Profile photo of almightybob1
    almightybob1 Male 18-29
    4290 posts
    October 11, 2008 at 7:35 am
    Drink driving is one of the most serious crimes there is. You can easily kill people if you get behind the wheel while drunk and/or high.

    Surely you`re not saying that drink-driving is excusable? Or only when it`s a Republican President who did it?

  108. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5387 posts
    October 11, 2008 at 7:37 am
    Saturday, October 11, 2008 7:35:08 AM
    Drink driving is one of the most serious crimes there is. You can easily kill people if you get behind the wheel while drunk and/or high.

    Surely you`re not saying that drink-driving is excusable? Or only when it`s a Republican President who did it?

    So, who did he run into or over and kill, because it changes to murder when that happens.
    I missed that point.
    DUI < Murder

  109. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5387 posts
    October 11, 2008 at 7:39 am
    He worked with a man (who is a known Terrorist, but who was on the Chicago education board who was doing good things for the city). You can`t ignore all the good things that Ayers (even though he is a terrorist) was doing which he was doing while Obama knew him."

    Just pointing out that once you are a terrorist, you are always labeled that, and it shouldn`t be ignored.

  110. Profile photo of starrstreet
    starrstreet Female 18-29
    402 posts
    October 11, 2008 at 7:39 am
    Who was making the ultimate decision? A bipartisan committee! They were the ones who made the verdict who were mostly republicans! You will use ANYTHING to discredit what was found, that Palin was guilty of abuse of power and unethical behavior. That is the bottom line. Who came to those conclusions? A committee of more Replublicans and Democrats and not the Democrat courts. Just, move on with your life.
  111. Profile photo of almightybob1
    almightybob1 Male 18-29
    4290 posts
    October 11, 2008 at 7:40 am
    Sure, this time he didn`t kill anyone, but by your logic:

    "What if he isn`t rehabilitated? What if he is just waiting his time to try again? What if he plans another attack?"

    It`s better to keep him off the streets, because if he keeps drink driving eventually he will kill someone.

  112. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5387 posts
    October 11, 2008 at 7:40 am
    ...Just, move on with your life.

    You still won`t admit the parts about Democrats heading it huh?
    I see that it was in a bipartisan committee, why cant you see that that committee was ran by dems, in a dem court?

  113. Profile photo of starrstreet
    starrstreet Female 18-29
    402 posts
    October 11, 2008 at 7:42 am
    Holy poo dude, stop. I was asking who are the ones who made the decisions. I acknowledge all that you said, but the people who made the decisions were a bipartisan committee who voted unanimously.
  114. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5387 posts
    October 11, 2008 at 7:42 am
    DUI is still < Murder

    You can`t convict someone of a crime they aren`t guilty of.

    Ok, take his right to drive a car.. send him to AA.

  115. Profile photo of almightybob1
    almightybob1 Male 18-29
    4290 posts
    October 11, 2008 at 7:42 am
    Why should the investigation have been stopped? Did the Republicans know she was guilty and want to prevent it ever coming to light?
  116. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5387 posts
    October 11, 2008 at 7:43 am
    I acknowledge all that you said, but the people who made the decisions were a bipartisan committee (controlled by democrats) who voted unanimously.

    Once again you leave parts out.

  117. Profile photo of starrstreet
    starrstreet Female 18-29
    402 posts
    October 11, 2008 at 7:44 am
    Yeah absolutely almightybob1, but he will just follow whatever his party wants him to think. My god, such scrutiny over Obama and democrats all the time but when something is staring him RIGHT IN THE FACE but its his own party he will do ANYTHING to defend it, even when it is not working.
  118. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5387 posts
    October 11, 2008 at 7:44 am
    Why should the investigation have been stopped? Did the Republicans know she was guilty and want to prevent it ever coming to light?

    No, they wanted a more fair investigation, which the Palins launched a republican investigation, not saying thats any more fair.

  119. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5387 posts
    October 11, 2008 at 7:46 am
    One other thing you guys have missed out on.. it still has to go to a republican controlled legislation, although the timing of this is so great on the democrats part, because it won`t reach that legislation before the election.
  120. Profile photo of starrstreet
    starrstreet Female 18-29
    402 posts
    October 11, 2008 at 7:46 am
    I acknowledge all that you said, but the people who made the decisions were a bipartisan committee (controlled by democrats) who voted unanimously.

    So you`re saying that the republicans on the committee will do whatever the democratic court wants them to do? HA. Good try?

  121. Profile photo of almightybob1
    almightybob1 Male 18-29
    4290 posts
    October 11, 2008 at 7:47 am
    "You can`t convict someone of a crime they aren`t guilty of."

    Um, yes you can.

    "Ok, take his right to drive a car.. send him to AA."

    But he won`t rehabilitate, he`ll get drunk again. And since he clearly has no regard for the law (he already committed DUI), what`s to stop him getting behind the wheel even if he`s banned?

  122. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5387 posts
    October 11, 2008 at 7:48 am
    No, but your saying that democrats didn`t influence it.
  123. Profile photo of starrstreet
    starrstreet Female 18-29
    402 posts
    October 11, 2008 at 7:48 am
    elkingo, you lose, give it up, nothing you are saying is logical or rational.
  124. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5387 posts
    October 11, 2008 at 7:50 am
    So your saying we now false accuse someone, and then convict them on circumstantial evidence, but later clear their name?
  125. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5387 posts
    October 11, 2008 at 7:51 am
    starrstreet, its irrational and ignorant to ignore arguments. Like you have demonstrated.
  126. Profile photo of starrstreet
    starrstreet Female 18-29
    402 posts
    October 11, 2008 at 7:51 am
    Geez elkingo, why send him to AA when you`re saying once a drunk always a drunk? Why even try to rehabilitate someone, huh? Doesn`t work does it, I mean WHAT IF he got behind the car again and killed someone, he should probably stay in jail forever.

    I mean despite all his efforts in AA and his life that has turned around we should always label him a drunk driver and a danger to society. No one should associate with him or the are condoning his drunk driving!

  127. Profile photo of almightybob1
    almightybob1 Male 18-29
    4290 posts
    October 11, 2008 at 7:51 am
    "No, but your saying that democrats didn`t influence it."

    Of course democrats influenced it. They were on the committee, that was their job. Republicans influenced it too, because all the republicans on the committee were doing their job as well.

    If you think the republicans (who had the majority on the committee, not that it matters) just did whatever the overseeing democrat told them, you`re insulting their integrity.

  128. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5387 posts
    October 11, 2008 at 7:52 am
    I quoted these 4:
    Pedophilia
    Rape
    Murder
    Terrorism

    bob brought up alcholism, which isn`t a crime, but DUI is, to which I said take his driving rights.

    Try to keep up.

  129. Profile photo of starrstreet
    starrstreet Female 18-29
    402 posts
    October 11, 2008 at 7:53 am
    If you think the republicans (who had the majority on the committee, not that it matters) just did whatever the overseeing democrat told them, you`re insulting their integrity.

    That was a good way to put it, I just couldn`t figure how to do so that it would get across to elkingo.

  130. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5387 posts
    October 11, 2008 at 7:54 am
    "just did whatever the overseeing democrat told them, you`re insulting their integrity."

    I didn`t suggest that, but persuasion from a leader is magnified. Its human nature.

  131. Profile photo of starrstreet
    starrstreet Female 18-29
    402 posts
    October 11, 2008 at 7:55 am
    Lol almightlybob, lets just leave it. We`re never going to get through to people this thick skulled no matter the argument we bring up.
  132. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5387 posts
    October 11, 2008 at 7:55 am
    Your saying the outcome would have been the same in republican controlled court, with a republican overseer, and administrator?
  133. Profile photo of almightybob1
    almightybob1 Male 18-29
    4290 posts
    October 11, 2008 at 7:56 am
    "So your saying we now false accuse someone, and then convict them on circumstantial evidence, but later clear their name? "

    No, I`m pointing out the ridiculousness of your "What if?" policy, and the hypocrisy that you don`t apply it to your own politicians.

    Your argument:
    WHAT IF Ayers plans another terrorist attack, even though he did his time and has since shown no intention to reoffend?
    Better safe than sorry, he should never hold a position of power.

    My argument:
    WHAT IF George W Bush drink-drives again and this time kills someone, even though he did his time and has since shown no intention to reoffend?
    Better safe than sorry, he should never hold a position of power.

    I don`t agree with this argument, I`m just using an example to try to make you see how ludicrous it is.

  134. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5387 posts
    October 11, 2008 at 7:56 am
    starrstreet is angry because I won`t move from my stance, yet she won`t either. Hypocrite.
  135. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5387 posts
    October 11, 2008 at 7:58 am
    ok one more attempt at my position bob.

    DUI, kills 30 if he hits a bus.

    Terrorism, kills contents of a city on successful attack, plus cripples economy of area, and/or nationwide.

    Which is greater?

  136. Profile photo of almightybob1
    almightybob1 Male 18-29
    4290 posts
    October 11, 2008 at 7:58 am
    "Your saying the outcome would have been the same in republican controlled court, with a republican overseer, and administrator?"

    If they all did their job properly and with integrity, yes, just as this committee did. Otherwise what`s the point? Any outcome of any decision can be blindly attributed to someone`s personal beliefs, as opposed to them actually doing their job.

  137. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5387 posts
    October 11, 2008 at 7:59 am
    "If they all did their job properly and with integrity" Do you know nothing of mud slinging?
    Also, if thats the case that they would find the same verdict, why not allow a republican investigation?
  138. Profile photo of almightybob1
    almightybob1 Male 18-29
    4290 posts
    October 11, 2008 at 8:00 am
    "Terrorism, kills contents of a city on successful attack, plus cripples economy of area, and/or nationwide."

    Not every terrorist attack is a nuke, although watching 24 would suggest otherwise.

    DUI hits bus, kills 30.
    Suicide bomber explodes bus, kills 30.

  139. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5387 posts
    October 11, 2008 at 8:01 am
    Yes, because he seems to be the type who would work at a government office for 30+- years to blow up a bus.

    Other non-nuke attacks

    Oklahoma City
    Sept. 11

  140. Profile photo of almightybob1
    almightybob1 Male 18-29
    4290 posts
    October 11, 2008 at 8:03 am
    "why not allow a republican investigation"

    This was not a democrat investigation. There were both democrats AND republicans on the committee.

    If you swapped the overseeing democrat for an overseeing republican, I doubt the outcome would have changed.

  141. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5387 posts
    October 11, 2008 at 8:04 am
    "I doubt the outcome would have changed."

    But those are your doubts.. and is that persuaded because it is on your side? Regardless of that answer that is what all republicans are thinking.

  142. Profile photo of almightybob1
    almightybob1 Male 18-29
    4290 posts
    October 11, 2008 at 8:05 am
    You`re focusing on the terrorism vs DUI analogy too much. It was an example.


    There is no evidence, other than in your head, that Ayers is planning any terrorist activity. If you do have some, please do call the police. No-one wants terrorism to take place.

    I was using the example of DUI to point out the flaws in your "What if" proposal, and to show that former criminals can indeed shake loose the shackles of their crimes and move on.

  143. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5387 posts
    October 11, 2008 at 8:06 am
    Oh yeah, and to illustrate my point a little better in this down time:

    The attack on Sept. 11 was a planned attack that took years. The people who orchestrated the attack had to sneak into the country 1 by 1, get flight training, over the course of years, plan the attack, then execute it. Took Years.. see my point?

  144. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5387 posts
    October 11, 2008 at 8:10 am
    bob, say the % chance that he will plan and orchestrate an attack is 1%... With what is at risk, I don`t want to chance it. With the risk involved with DUI at 1% I can chance it. Now the same would apply at 100% chance of risk, the only change would be to never let the DUI person drive again.

    We have to assume there is a % chance of risk in both cases. That is the max, and min, although I left out the mean, because it isn`t important in these risk factors.

  145. Profile photo of almightybob1
    almightybob1 Male 18-29
    4290 posts
    October 11, 2008 at 8:10 am
    OK let`s review.

    1) An investigation into Palin`s abuse of power began in July, long before anyone knew she would become McCain`s running partner.
    2) She initially agreed to be helpful, but then withdrew that help and attempted to stop the investigation from taking place.
    3) The investigating panel was made up of both democrats and republicans. It was overseen by a democrat, and contained a majority of republicans.
    4) The panel found that Palin had indeed abused her powers.


    If you disagree with any of those, please say so.

    And of course,

    5) Some republicans refuse to believe the outcome of the report (even though there were more of them than democrats involved) just because the overseer was a democrat.

    Do you think all those republicans on the panel were up for some `mud-slinging` at their own candidate?

  146. Profile photo of almightybob1
    almightybob1 Male 18-29
    4290 posts
    October 11, 2008 at 8:14 am
    Again, it was an example.

    And why equate the percentages of reoffence when you won`t equate the outcomes? Perhaps he is just planning over all these years to blow up another statue and destroy some windows? I can live with a 1% chance of that happening.

  147. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5387 posts
    October 11, 2008 at 8:14 am
    I agree with all of your points, except for 2, and I think there is more to it than that.

    What I disagree with is your conclusion: "Do you think all those republicans on the panel were up for some `mud-slinging` at their own candidate?"

    1. You assume that Palin is their candidate first.
    2. The "Some republicans" in point 5, is the important ones supporting McCain and Palin for the presidency/vp


  148. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5387 posts
    October 11, 2008 at 8:16 am
    what if that statue is The Statue of Liberty? What if those windows are the ones in the White House?

    juvenile attacks = spontaneous
    adult attacks = planned

    Also, all criminals progress with their crimes.
    Forensic Psych 101

  149. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5387 posts
    October 11, 2008 at 8:17 am
    bob, I do want to pause and say that it is great to argue with someone who has some intelligence. No hard feelings either way, just trying to make a point, as I am sure thats what you are trying to do.
  150. Profile photo of almightybob1
    almightybob1 Male 18-29
    4290 posts
    October 11, 2008 at 8:19 am
    "ob, I do want to pause and say that it is great to argue with someone who has some intelligence. No hard feelings either way, just trying to make a point, as I am sure thats what you are trying to do."

    Was just about to say the same thing :)


    Now where were we...

  151. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5387 posts
    October 11, 2008 at 8:22 am
    well lets leave the criminal debate, and lean toward the Palin one. I think to summarize what we disagree on, is the out come of the investigation. I am taking the side that it would have been different under different circumstances.
  152. Profile photo of almightybob1
    almightybob1 Male 18-29
    4290 posts
    October 11, 2008 at 8:23 am
    "1. You assume that Palin is their candidate first.
    2. The "Some republicans" in point 5, is the important ones supporting McCain and Palin for the presidency/vp"

    Surely all republicans are supporting McCain/Palin? Who else is running?

    If they`re not going to vote for McCain, they must be voting for Obama, making them democrats. Or independent I suppose, but never mind them.

  153. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5387 posts
    October 11, 2008 at 8:25 am
    No.. in America a registered Democrat can vote Independent, or Republican. Just as a republican can vote independent or democrat. Independents can vote democrat or republican also.
  154. Profile photo of almightybob1
    almightybob1 Male 18-29
    4290 posts
    October 11, 2008 at 8:28 am
    OK back to Palin. There are two outcomes:
    1) She is innocent of abusing her power.
    2) She is guilty of abusing her power.


    Let`s assume she is actually innocent.
    By the time the panel reaches this conclusion, it`s become apparent that Palin will be McCain`s running partner, something they didn`t know initially.
    The panel is majority republican, and they can all see that showing she is innocent will help the republicans win the election. And yet they all agree to report that she is guilty, even though it would be too late to use it as an get rid of her as McCain`s running partner.

    Situation 2 - she is guilty.
    The panel did their job, and honestly reported that she was guilty, even though the republicans knew they were damaging the chances of a republican victory.

  155. Profile photo of almightybob1
    almightybob1 Male 18-29
    4290 posts
    October 11, 2008 at 8:31 am
    OK yes, but if I said:

    "I`m a republican."
    "So you voted for McCain?"
    "No, Obama."
    "But he`s a democrat."
    "Yeah."
    "But you`re a republican?"
    "Yeah."
    "Wouldn`t you agree that, for the purposes of this election, you`re a democrat?"
    "No."
    "But you voted democrat."
    "Yeah."
    "So you wanted a democrat to be president, not a republican?"
    "Yeah."
    "But you`re a republican."
    "Yeah."

  156. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5387 posts
    October 11, 2008 at 8:34 am
    ah yes, but some things that are detrimental are left out.

    Possibilities:
    1 The investigation probe was democrat influenced.
    2. It wasn`t.
    3. It was supposed to be released Nov. 3rd
    3.a It is more detrimental to release it now

    Say 1 is true. Then the investigation is polluted with a bias view, and needs to be thrown out.

    Say 2 is true. It still has to go to legislation.

    3 Tricky, because it is now held up until it gets to legislation, which is important because democrats can now say, "your guilty of power abuse" whether it is made a crime or not, and they have also eliminated the possibility of a new investigation.

  157. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5387 posts
    October 11, 2008 at 8:35 am
    But you`re a republican."
    "Yeah."

    Completely correct.

  158. Profile photo of almightybob1
    almightybob1 Male 18-29
    4290 posts
    October 11, 2008 at 8:42 am
    Even if it isn`t a crime, it`s not an encouraging characteristic in a vice-president. She would have a whole load of power to abuse.

    I don`t think that the probe would be democrat influenced any more than republican influenced. The main guy was a democrat, but the majority on the panel were republican. If all those republicans disagreed with the final report, why haven`t they all said so? They must agree, which tells me that, whatever your political affiliation, the evidence clearly shows she is guilty.

    And I think that an early release would be less damaging than suddenly, on the day before the election, all the headlines screaming "PALIN ABUSES POWER", the night before the election. It`s hard to see how an early release could be worse for the republicans than that.

  159. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5387 posts
    October 11, 2008 at 8:45 am
    Some points of interest:

    -saying something is un-ethical doesn`t make it abuse.

    -If you don`t show up for court, you are automatically guilty.

    -Americans have the right to
    a. fair trial
    b. appeals
    (Palin is arguing that it wasn`t a fair trial)

  160. Profile photo of almightybob1
    almightybob1 Male 18-29
    4290 posts
    October 11, 2008 at 8:49 am
    Surely she would have argued that right from the start then? Only one thing changed that made her start complaining - she became McCain`s running partner.


    What are her grounds for complaint? That the overseer was a democrat? That`s pretty weak.

    And yes, unethical doesn`t mean abuse, but strong ethics are usually important in powerful politicians. You don`t want someone with weak ethics wielding vast power.

    And the report itself said "abuse of power", I didn`t choose the word abuse.

  161. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5387 posts
    October 11, 2008 at 8:49 am
    Oh, to illustrate the voting thing:

    Democrats are still democrats even if they deeply oppose Obama`s Socialistic Health Care.. so they vote independent or republican.. they are still democrats, just disagree with Socialism.

  162. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5387 posts
    October 11, 2008 at 8:51 am
    I realize you didn`t choose the term abuse, but to say that different ethics are weak ethics is incorrect. Say she follows the Judeao-Christian Model.. as opposed to Rule-Utilitarianism.. both are strong ethical arguments.
  163. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5387 posts
    October 11, 2008 at 8:52 am
    Her grounds was to pause the investigation until she had time to show up for court and to defend herself. She still maintains innocence. But, for some unknown reason this investigation had to be released early!
  164. Profile photo of almightybob1
    almightybob1 Male 18-29
    4290 posts
    October 11, 2008 at 8:58 am
    sorry elkingo, I`m gonna have to call this to a halt, going out to the pub soon. It`s been fun though :)
  165. Profile photo of orionsbelt
    orionsbelt Male 18-29
    151 posts
    October 11, 2008 at 9:00 am
    Sarah Palin is under attack for being corrupt!!!

    Conservacrab!!! I choose you!!!!

    OBAMA = OSAMA

    BIAS BIAS BIAS

    MAVERICK MAVERICK MAVERICK

    HOCKEY MOM, AVERAGE JOE, I CAN SEE RUSSIA

    but it misses...

  166. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5387 posts
    October 11, 2008 at 9:07 am
    Yes it has! Great debating with you!
  167. Profile photo of Zerocyde
    Zerocyde Male 18-29
    3258 posts
    October 11, 2008 at 10:24 am
    Haha! We are gonna have a president who actually gives a poo about the religious freedom of the American people and their isn`t poo you tards can do about it!

    Yall are just pissed because Jesus can`t write any new laws for at least the next four years. Unless, of course, he assassinates Obama. Which I sure as hell wouldn`t put it past a conservative to do.

  168. Profile photo of orionsbelt
    orionsbelt Male 18-29
    151 posts
    October 11, 2008 at 2:09 pm
    people aren`t democrats or republicans...they are just people

    it`s that kind of talk that causes people to blindly defend or attack a politician...because they think they are part of the same team, but we have no reason to blindly stick to either of these candidates

    i`m sure we all know elkingo is a blind republican...who will defend any position taken up by the republican party...

    but don`t believe his crap about you being a republican or democrat because your just a person and these labels mean nothing in the end...vote for who you want to...not who someone else says is on your side

  169. Profile photo of Nidonemo
    Nidonemo Male 18-29
    9311 posts
    October 11, 2008 at 2:18 pm
    Sometimes I wish things could be solved with (I want to say binary, 1 or 0) a simple yes / no.
  170. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5387 posts
    October 11, 2008 at 3:42 pm
    orionsbelt, your an idiot.

    I never claimed that you have to blindly follow anyone. I was the one who said no matter what you are registered as you can vote ever how you want. I guess you didn`t read that huh?

  171. Profile photo of __carebear__
    __carebear__ Female 13-17
    688 posts
    October 11, 2008 at 4:52 pm
    Lol, I was really hoping this was posted by a person who wasn`t a mod to see if they became banned. But it was davy.

    Awwwww D:

  172. Profile photo of orionsbelt
    orionsbelt Male 18-29
    151 posts
    October 11, 2008 at 6:59 pm
    a wild elkingo appeared!!!

    Nelson uses common sense!

    It`s super effective!!!

  173. Profile photo of orionsbelt
    orionsbelt Male 18-29
    151 posts
    October 11, 2008 at 7:01 pm
    elkingo...can you honestly say u don`t blindly defend the republican party??? don`t lie...
  174. Profile photo of sam111
    sam111 Male 30-39
    77 posts
    October 12, 2008 at 9:19 am
    i want palin for president!!!
  175. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5387 posts
    October 12, 2008 at 7:59 pm
    thats not me, jack arse.. and no I don`t "blindy" follow anyone.. I make my own choices.
  176. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5387 posts
    October 12, 2008 at 7:59 pm
    idiot.

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