Gay and Straight Brains are Physically Different

Submitted by: Yaezakura 9 years ago in Science
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/7456588.stm

Just more proof that it"s not a choice, but something you"re born with or without.
There are 205 comments:
Male 1,049
How did I know that this post would bring out the Christian nut jobs that feel the need to push their morals based on fanciful stories and imaginary friends in the sky.
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Male 5,620
Notice the similarities in the HoW (Homo Women) and HeM (Hetro Male) and for the other.. its a clear case of development. Not present at birth.
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Male 5,620
Here you go.


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Female 60
This has been known for a while about the brain and sexual orientation. I wish they had photos of the differences in the brain.
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Male 1
with all due respect, just because the brains are different doesn`t prove they were born that way. what if the way you think and the way you use your brain shapes it over time? this is something people don`t think about. it`s the same with `illnesses` such as depression. what if you are depressed first which causes the chemical changes in your brain? they are one in the same. it isn`t that your brain`s screwy and that`s why you feel sad. you feel sad and your brain SHOWS it. i think the same is true with this. a person is gay and their brain -shows- it, that doesn`t necessarily PROVE that it -caused- it. even still, even if being gay IS a choice, nobody should still give a flying drat if someone is gay. :) just wanted to make clear that whether they`re born with it or they choose it, i still don`t see anything wrong with it. my real point here is that the argument shouldn`t be about whether it`s natural or a choice, the argument should be about the fact that it`s nobody else`s business
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Female 268
i like this article.
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Female 710
Lol, IAB debate.
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Male 474
The only question that enters my brain when i think about all this is simply this. What if God doesn`t even know the meaning of life, or the purpose of existence? What if the reason we were created in the first place was to observe life and existence as it was presented to God so that God can find the answers. Has he found it? Or are we doomed to repeat the process by creating life of our own, in our own image, so that we may understand the purpose of existence?
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Male 474
That was not a message of peace, not wholly. These people practice peace and love but only if your part of the clique, the god clique. If your gay, or of a different religion, or even if your not in the born again club, then you might as well be from another planet. Personally i think its time for a modern mesiah, a new religion of God, one that embraces both peace/love AND the persuit of science and knowledge. Theres no reason they cant coexist. We should be able to accept that man is both a creation and an evolution. After all, isnt it the end result that matters? If the steps along the way took a illion years, thats OK. We live in a time where we are witness to the next step. All of these advanced sciences and discoveries are just the next steps we need to find God and the meaning of life.
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Male 474
Look i like the "message" of christ. Peace and Love are great concepts and we should all attempt to follow. That means loving those who ARE gay, loving those who ARE violent, loving those who ARE different or have different opinions or views. I mean, look at christ`s crew, vagabonds, harlotts, thieves. All of them, yet his message of peace and love brought them together. The story is great, yeah it has holes in it, it was edited even after the supposed eye witness account, but i dont take the bible or the new testament literally. The new testment is a message of peace and love, and i can agree on that, but because it has a demonic book that is attached to it, i cannot accept it as a religion. I want to believe in a god, a creator fo the universe. And i do, and i believe that everything man has discovered is just steps mankind is taking to be able to reach this creator. But i stood in church for 1/2 my life listening to the same thing day in and day out
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Male 474
Well it`s the next day and im back and WOW this thread asploded... Anywho... There`s a couple of things id like to say and point out or whatever:

1 - If you think all there is to evolution is what you learned (or forced to learn depending on your view) in highschool then im sorry to have to tell you that as complicated as THAT material is, its a VERY VERY simplistic analysis of evolution. Again i want to point out evolution is an entire branch of science, one in which people get PHDs in meaning year upon years of study and even then research is continued upon.
2 - I started reading the bible, page by page, word by word, not the cherry picking that pastors or priests like to do to make some sort of modern event or political view relevant. What i read disgusted me and i dropped my christian faith right then and there. "God" holds no value to human life and in fact rewards those who take it on his behalf.

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Male 32
Eh, to clarify some of the article. The amgydala is a special part of the brain that is generally immutable past the 8th month of fetal development. So to all of those people claiming environment or thought will rewire your brain, think of it as a difference between hardware and software. You`re essentially stuck with the same hardware (amygdala) but different softwares can be loaded (some personality aspects, conscious choices...).

What I eluded to in the previous post I can summarize briefly. There`s been studies showing that the structural differences observed in gays are the result of differences in hormonal enviroments in the womb. To support some of what Maddog has said, the more boys a mother has, the more of a certain hormone she produces which has been shown to directly alter brain development (only shown in males but most gay studies are done on males). Geeze, just one of many examples I could cite but it`s hard to talk bio chem to people that don`t understand bio nor chem.

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Male 32
Heh, I don`t post too often, just when I see extreme stupidity.

Being a grad student in biochem (one more year and I`ll have my phd) I`ll let everyone in on a little secret- the general public is retarded when it comes to science. Too many people don`t know what cells are, how genes work, what enzymes and hormones do, they don`t understand basic biology (and have no idea about phys. nor chem.).

This is important to note because then the media picks up studies and dumbs them down quite a bit to ensure broad understanding. So we aren`t seeing all of the data, the conclusions, nor most importantly the background information which details why these studies are being done.

Having read many journals specifically on protein differences with the gays, there is a very broad support that biology plays a large portion. This doesn`t mean every `gay` is biologically determined to be, but a large portion are. Of course I can back all of this up with respected journals- but lack the space.

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Female 385
"You are NOT born with it. It is a choice, a WRONG choice."

Alright, keith2, do me a favor. Describe to me the moment you CHOSE to be straight. I do not mean the moment you realized ladies were attractive for the first time. I mean the moment you sat down and made a conscious decision of the fact you would only be attracted to females.

Can`t do it? Yeah, didn`t think so.

That`s the kind of idiocy the "choice" argument is. We don`t choose our orientation any more than you do. We do, of course, choose to ACT on that orientation, the same way heterosexual people choose to act on theirs, but we do not choose the orientation. We may choose to be an active part of the prominent gay lifestyle scene, but only in such a way as anyone chooses what scenes and social groups they wish to belong to, but again, the orientation is not chosen, or even required. There are, in fact, many straight supporters who are active members of the gay scene in most places.

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Male 12,138
cefka, tog4tec, comments about fags and hoping they die soon are getting deleted. Any more of it in future, and I`m going to recommend you for banned status.

I`m watching you two. Consider this a warning.

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Male 2,591
You are NOT born with it. It is a choice, a WRONG choice.
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Male 1,557
Why would anyone find the need to concern themselves about what someone ELSE does in the privacy of their bedroom, let alone judge them for it? Its none of your business what I do, and none of my business what you do. Deal with it.
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Male 182
Personally, I don`t see a problem with gays or lesbians. I strongly believe what goes on behind closed doors is none of mine, or your business. Irregardless if it goes against your moral grain.

I do see a problem with public groping, but then again, I don`t care if you are hetero, or gay....I don`t want to see it. Take it elsewhere.

Religious bashers? Yeah, and you are going to judge everyone for the wrong they do...well, have I got news for you...you aren`t perfect either. And if you recall a certain passage in YOUR book... Let he who is without sin throw the first stone.....well...I`m waiting....

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Female 668
ouch cefka. That hurt. I`m depressed and angry at myself for making this choice. I mean, I only did it for all the social benefits that it brings but you know what? You`re right. I think I`m just going to off myself right now so you can live in your comfy little box a little while longer.
Cheers!
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Female 385
Wow. Knew this would spark a debate, but never figured it would go this long. ^_^;

I would like to point out one flaw in the idea that homosexuality is a danger to the species. Humans are highly social creatures, like all great apes. It`s one of the defining characteristics of our species. Homosexuals, who do not reproduce themselves, support greater society by helping to raise the children of others. This is also evidenced by the fact that the more children a mother has, the higher the likelihood that each successive child (at least in the case of males) will be homosexual. So, large extended families with homosexuals have people free of their own children to help rear the children of their siblings. In this way, homosexuality serves two vital biological functions by slowing population growth in a species that is far too numerous such as ourselves, and by offering a better social environment for our highly social species.

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Male 2,553
i agree with davy
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Male 5,620
"Yeah, well alcoholic`s brains are different than normal people`s, and they aren`t born alcoholics. Maybe thinking about doing men all the time changes their brain. I read a study that said that porn causes your brain to emit all these chemicals, and that is part of the reason people get addicted to it."

Actually, that is because alcohol damages the brain, not because of thought processes. It shrinks the frontal lobes.

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Male 5,620
As a psych student, they left out one very important detail anyone in intro to physiological psych should catch. Adult brains are developed. That means, as you get older the brain "develops", meaning it looses certain neurons that it doesn`t need.. and sexual preference may be linked to brain hemisphere size, but it doesn`t mean that it is set in stone, because infants all have the same brain basically.
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Male 12,138
To be fair Grossen, girl-on-girl action I can totally understand, but guy-on-guy, well, that`s just wrong.
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Male 455
I`ve been saying the brains are different for years. Why else would guys be attracted to guys and girls attracted to girls?
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Male 2,313
Joking man. Mostly. We all know how mods can get when provoked.
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Male 2,245
absolutely nothing personal. just felt like being obnoxious.
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Male 2,245
no dude, im just busting. if i had done anything it would have just been to list all of the different things about you in the format like i was doing below.
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Male 12,138
amaq, what`s your point caller? My profile is there for anyone to read mate...

And sixclaws, I don`t do "angry deletions".

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Male 2,245
I just looked at his profile too. I could go on for pages.
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Male 2,313
Sorry Opie, you`re a little late. We just spend the last seven pages deciding conclusively what the truth is.
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Male 2,313
Ha ha, that`s begging for an angry deletion.
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Female 15,763
...

The only thing I`ll say to this is that the vast majority of what makes us up as humans is neither solely genetic nor solely environmental.

And that`s that.

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Male 2,245
"...I like to have 1828 posts. I like to live in Europe. I like to be male..."
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Male 2,245
"Hi, my name is davymid. I like to keep posts on topic. I like to have profile pics that are inside jokes to IABers. I like to have a profile name that apparently has something to do with my presumed first name david and then mid at the end for some reason."
No seriously, youre right though, i should probably go do some homework
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Male 2,313
"davymid

Tuesday, September 16, 2008 3:17:45 PM

zerocyde, it doesn`t say so on your profile... would it be a lucky guess that you`re a Christian?"

Pretty on topic right there. ;)

Joking mostly. Sorry.

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Male 12,138
Guys, please let`s try to keep the posts on topic. This isn`t a chatroom.
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Male 2,313
Although whether God takes an active stance in our daily lives is debatable, praying for something can`t hurt. Even if the solution doesn`t seem God given, maybe it will come in the form of an insightful thought or change of heart.
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Male 2,245
yes, i am bashing the evangelical christians as often as i can on this site, if you havent noticed
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Male 2,245
yeah man, i can see you have a really level head on your shoulders and ive had this same debate before with other intelligent Christians. maybe im just being reactionary to the cheap faith of the evangelicals that is perverting our country`s faith.
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Male 1,204
but yeah, it doesn`t matter whether or not God is helping, we should always be doing our best as human beings nonetheless.
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Male 1,204
meh, as Ron Burgandy said, agree to disagree. from what i`m seeing, you have sort of a deists` view, which is respectable, seeing that`s the founding fathers` views as well. dangit i`m back on here i`m so bored i hate school
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Male 2,313
True, it doesn`t matter so much what happened as what we do with what is now.
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Male 2,245
By the way, six claws, i`m a Christian and i think your view is completely rational as well. Evolution has a lot of holes too though so on that matter i really don`t think that it matters either way how the world was created.
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Male 2,245
God is not a crutch
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Male 2,313
"tornadofdoom

Sixclaws:

I`m not Christian, but by that you mean that u believe evolution is the process in which God creates, correct?

A pretty rational belief if you ask me."

Essentially. The Bible says we were created, not we were created exactly as we are. Evolution is woven into the whole plan.

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Male 2,245
im sorry caboose, but i think we`ve hit a wall here. there`s just too many cases where that theory falls apart. look at Job.
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Male 1,204
and to all who think Christians are irational, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Chr...

i`m no longer gona look at this page, need to concentrate on homework. temptation. growing. strong. GAHHH

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Male 1,204
to think i was just starting to see hope in the IAB forums... sixclaws, time to move out.
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Male 1,078
Sixclaws:

I`m not Christian, but by that you mean that u believe evolution is the process in which God creates, correct?

A pretty rational belief if you ask me.

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Male 2,313
"Zerocyde

@davymid

lol, the exact opposite. If I was a christian I would not have said; ""I don`t give a poo who you wanna screw, as long as you`re a good person."" I probably would have said; "I HOPE YOU STUPID dratING FAGOTS DIE YOU PIECES OF poo! JESUS HATES YOU YOU dratING DEGENERATE HOMOS!" and then chased them down with a flamethrower, lol.

... also, I probably wouldn`t have mentioned my belief in evolution had I been a christian."

Ignorance incarnate right there. I am a Christian. I believe in evolution and creation. Yes, you can believe in both. I have absolutely nothing against gay people. I do, however, have something against willfully ignorant noobs like you.

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Male 1,204
my posts seem long, but that`s because i quote other people`s quotes to make them seem longer :P
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Male 1,204
"
sorry but i was just reading back through the posts and caboose said something about God watching over each and every one of us. That is the kind of vague concept developed to portray Christianity as some easy way out. If God guides us through troubles it is not because he fixes our lives, it is our faith in him, in the face of any hardship and trial that pulls us through. The Bible does not promise us a God that will fix our problems, in fact it promises trials and tribulations, and we are foolish to ask of this when we pray. I believe prayer is simply a focusing on God and your faith in God`s will, like meditation, and if anything concrete is developed and expressed in prayer it should be thanks."

dangit why u make me debate again :P

I never said God makes everything all good, a father disciplines his son too, right? also, if a son is walking and he trips, the father couldn`t have prevented it, but helps us up. he doens`t carry us, or else we never grow. that`s wha

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Male 1,204
"
...how bout this, we invent a pill that will do the following:
-makes everybody straight, no controversy ever!
-gets rid of extremely opinionated people as well
-gets rid of people who think that their placement into AP euro ( a class i am in btw, such a boring class) means a poo.
-teaches kids 13-17 that they really dont know half as much as they think. "

of course SOMEONE tries to spark another debate. i`m just letting people know i have good sources :P

and i`ll freely admit i got a 2 on the APUSH test. i`ll admit it. happy? :P

but mentioning Spartans in a history essay usually does not bode too well. a fair warning to all!

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Male 2,245
sorry but i was just reading back through the posts and caboose said something about God watching over each and every one of us. That is the kind of vague concept developed to portray Christianity as some easy way out. If God guides us through troubles it is not because he fixes our lives, it is our faith in him, in the face of any hardship and trial that pulls us through. The Bible does not promise us a God that will fix our problems, in fact it promises trials and tribulations, and we are foolish to ask of this when we pray. I believe prayer is simply a focusing on God and your faith in God`s will, like meditation, and if anything concrete is developed and expressed in prayer it should be thanks.
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Male 1,204
"
Gay is a choice. Don`t get me wrong, I don`t give a poo who you wanna screw, as long as you`re a good person. But homosexuality serves no evolutionary purpose, and there for is a choice. If you could be born gay, then there would be just as many people born with 8 arms, or born with nunchucks sticking out of their heads as there are people born gay."

Freaking i wish i had nunchucks on my head, that`d be sweet.

and now we all dandily walk through the dainty field of daffodils holding hands :D

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Male 776
...how bout this, we invent a pill that will do the following:
-makes everybody straight, no controversy ever!
-gets rid of extremely opinionated people as well
-gets rid of people who think that their placement into AP euro ( a class i am in btw, such a boring class) means a poo.
-teaches kids 13-17 that they really dont know half as much as they think.
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Male 3,255
@davymid

lol, the exact opposite. If I was a christian I would not have said; ""I don`t give a poo who you wanna screw, as long as you`re a good person."" I probably would have said; "I HOPE YOU STUPID dratING FAGOTS DIE YOU PIECES OF poo! JESUS HATES YOU YOU dratING DEGENERATE HOMOS!" and then chased them down with a flamethrower, lol.

... also, I probably wouldn`t have mentioned my belief in evolution had I been a christian.

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Male 12,138
zerocyde, it doesn`t say so on your profile... would it be a lucky guess that you`re a Christian?
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Male 2,245
i completely agree Prince Mufasa, peace everybody
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Male 3,255
Gay is a choice. Don`t get me wrong, I don`t give a poo who you wanna screw, as long as you`re a good person. But homosexuality serves no evolutionary purpose, and there for is a choice. If you could be born gay, then there would be just as many people born with 8 arms, or born with nunchucks sticking out of their heads as there are people born gay.

Other than upbringing and certain childhood influences, there are a few factors and personality traits that help lead to the choice of homosexuality though, and that`s probably what leads to these findings of differences in brain size and whatnot.

I don`t know why gays are so desperate to find proof that it`s "not their fault." drat everyone else, be proud, lol.

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Male 2,313
Wow, my typing fingers are getting tired. That was intense there for a while.
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Female 2,228
K now can we all just call it a day, and get along? Even though I love intellectual discussions, I believe it`s time for a rest.
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Male 2,313
"alice_x

"As far as I`m concerned there is no argument any more - if you are gay, you are born gay"

...i dont really have an opinions on this tbh. I have no problem with gay people, its any persons right to be who they are.
whether your born with it or not..who cares really :S"

I agree completely, they`re gay and that`s fine with me, but sometimes you just have to make your point. ;)

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Male 2,245
caboose, one more thing, my comment on the world of Man and God was to say that you should not try and relate the Holocaust and things of that nature with God. God gave us free will and we abuse it. God is not in the combined works of Man, or society. The world of God is individuals loving other individuals.
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Male 2,313
"QueenZira

Sixclaw sweetie *pats cheeck* Take a couple a good Religion/Philosophy classes yourself and then come debate the big girls."

That`s politically incorrect, "plus sized" is the preferred term.


Sorry, I had to. ;)

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Male 2,313
"QueenZira

Caboose: I don`t have a problem w/ christians for the most part. I can respect a beautiful tradition of relating to the great mystery. I DO have a problem however when that theology becomes ugly, and when adherents to that philosophy mistreat and dehumanize members of my human family. I have every right to call out those religionists who I see are not staying true to their founding principles."

You do have a right, and even and obligation, to call out religious people who harass your family or do anything that contradicts theirs supposed beliefs. In the Bible, Jesus tells his followers that one of the duties of Christians is to point out and expose hypocritical leaders, both political and religious. Where it becomes damaging, however, is when you begin to categorize all religious people as ignorant blind believers.

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Male 2,245
caboose i think were on the same page here actually, peace dude.
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Male 1,204
primetinkin- i thank you for your condolences. that class is quite a pain.
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Male 1,204
and i too dislike Christians who dislike gays (that`s convoluted) because that`s a Christian saying look! it`s someone doing something bad! while they too waste gas, eat superfluously, gorge on food, ignore religion, and live indulging and self satisfying lives.
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Male 2,245
edit: particularly silly example,...
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Male 7,933
"I for one am a student of AP Euro"

Took that last year... I feel so sorry for you

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Male 2,245
King Simba, don`t brag about college classes. You and everyone else knows that you only learn something if you want to whether or not your paying thousands of dollars for a class. Philosophy classes are a particularly silly, "lets hit a bong and think about stuff."
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Male 1,204
"
caboose117 - C.S. Lewis is, in my opinion, the best Christian thinker of our time. I just finished "Mere Christianity" and am working on "The Problem of Pain". He is amazing at clarifying things. You`re the first person under 40 I`ve heard of who knows his views."

I actually just read that book again (I tried in 7th grade and failed miserably, but junior year is a bit better) and this is where I get a large part of my views. Christians who believe in love seem few these days, but we still stand.

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Female 5,139
"As far as I`m concerned there is no argument any more - if you are gay, you are born gay"

...i dont really have an opinions on this tbh. I have no problem with gay people, its any persons right to be who they are.
whether your born with it or not..who cares really :S

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Male 1,204
and with that, i end my debate, and go back to calc homework. that stuff is a pain.
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Male 2,313
caboose117 - C.S. Lewis is, in my opinion, the best Christian thinker of our time. I just finished "Mere Christianity" and am working on "The Problem of Pain". He is amazing at clarifying things. You`re the first person under 40 I`ve heard of who knows his views.
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Female 2,228
Sixclaw sweetie *pats cheeck* Take a couple a good Religion/Philosophy classes yourself and then come debate the big girls.
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Male 1,204
"
umm...thanks, i guess??.. i suppose we can just leave this at, "agree to disagree"."

In the words of Ron Burgandy, agree to disagree.

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Male 1,204
"
Caboose: I don`t have a problem w/ christians for the most part. I can respect a beautiful tradition of relating to the great mystery. I DO have a problem however when that theology becomes ugly, and when adherents to that philosophy mistreat and dehumanize members of my human family. I have every right to call out those religionists who I see are not staying true to their founding principles. "

I understand fully, I for one am a student of AP Euro. The catholic church of the Middle and Post middle ages angers me just as much as it angers a Jew. However, the way you word it, can be taken as a direct affront to CHristianity. it was my mistake to take it that way, but i do hope you re-word slightly so that an understanding can be made

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Male 2,245
Wait, Queen Lionlady, are you bible bashing christians?
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Male 1,204
And about the world of man and God, our duty as people, is to help others. we are made in God`s image, which is the image of love, and that`s what we`re supposed to do. we are only statues, or sculptures of the sculptor, nonetheless, we should always try to do good for humanity
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Male 2,313
"QueenZira

I do know about religion. I`m a student of comparitive religion. Your Sky Father said "be fruitful and multiply" ergo anyone who isn`t is an affront to God and Nature. We Should all have a mate and have many many children by that reasoning, and if we aren`t we`re in trouble."

You can be a student of whatever you want, your ignorance makes it apparent that you don`t understand religion. Sorry.

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Female 2,228
Caboose: I don`t have a problem w/ christians for the most part. I can respect a beautiful tradition of relating to the great mystery. I DO have a problem however when that theology becomes ugly, and when adherents to that philosophy mistreat and dehumanize members of my human family. I have every right to call out those religionists who I see are not staying true to their founding principles.
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Male 1,204
And if someone goes about saying religion can`t be proven, CHristianity and science have nothing to do with each other
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Chr...
check out all the living Christian scientists, and what they believe. personally, i choose physicists, biologists, chemists, and engineers, over random people on i-am-bored.com. although if i were an athiest, i wouldn`t let something this asinine influence my choice, i`m jsut giving my own defense.
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Female 1,287
Is today angry arguement tuesday? I never got the memo.
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Male 2,245
I completely agree with you about Christianity though, caboose, i left out the other half that makes it so essential to me, which is the forgiveness. Sacrifice and Forgiveness, nuff said.
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Male 10
umm...thanks, i guess??.. i suppose we can just leave this at, "agree to disagree".
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Male 2,313
The_Maddog

"Wrong sixclaws13!

Your jumping on the "Survival of the fittest`s" anology which isnt true! Survival of the species is the correct way to look at it. Nature dosnt automatically know who his going to be the smartest of the fittest does it! therefore your smart gay friends argument is moot!:"

Assuming you believe that genetic traits are passed from parent to child, survival of the fittest is inherent to survival of the species. While it`s true that it is occasionally necessary to sacrifice few for the good of the many, overall evolution needs to weed out the damaging genes in order to be useful.

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Male 2,245
caboose, stop. don`t try and mix the world of God and the world of Man because the are diametrically opposed. You give up the world of Man in the name of God
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Male 1,204
"
allright, im going to do it, im going to go directly into this religious debate, here we go. If you believe in God, then there are not other religions, there is only God. We are all striving to understand the same thing. I am personally a Christian because of the life of Christ and his teachings. The central theme of sacrifice seems to make sense to me in my view of God. All the religions are just a tad different from the other and they all want to find God. It should not be looked at like the world looks at it as teams competing or some stupidity like that. If you are religious look to all forms of religion for inspiration because they are all striving for the same goal. I just believe in God, that`s it. "

I completely respect your beliefs, but Christianity does have a big difference. mercy. most other beliefs say (let`s exclude Buddhism here) that God will punish you if you do bad. In Christianity, it is all forgiven. All it`s about is love. or supposed to be

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Male 7,933
*Joins Queen but instead of Overmann calls for ttsec, where did he go anyway?
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Male 1,204
About God and tragedies:

So, their is a Christian God, you believe the world is peachy keen as is. The black plague was sooo bad wasn`t it? where is God?

The black plague overall lifted the lower class, gave the peasents and serfs a new position, created a middle class, expanded Europe, increased trade, brought new farming techniques, and helped the longevity of the average European after the ordeal was over.

Holocaust: Production was up, the great depression was ended, surplus is up, the UN is created to protect, and now the world is aware that we must always be watching over others.

For every thing their is a reason

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Male 2,245
allright, im going to do it, im going to go directly into this religious debate, here we go. If you believe in God, then there are not other religions, there is only God. We are all striving to understand the same thing. I am personally a Christian because of the life of Christ and his teachings. The central theme of sacrifice seems to make sense to me in my view of God. All the religions are just a tad different from the other and they all want to find God. It should not be looked at like the world looks at it as teams competing or some stupidity like that. If you are religious look to all forms of religion for inspiration because they are all striving for the same goal. I just believe in God, that`s it.
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Male 1,204

"I do know about religion. I`m a student of comparitive religion. Your Sky Father said "be fruitful and multiply" ergo anyone who isn`t is an affront to God and Nature. We Should all have a mate and have many many children by that reasoning, and if we aren`t we`re in trouble."

God said that back when there were a couple thousand people. It`s important to be fruitful and multiply, for the human race to sustain itself. You do NOT know what I believe in, and it`s ignorant to assume so. I believe in what CS Lewis believes in. Every Christian is just as sinful as any nonchristian, breaking one more rule doens`t matter, the important part is belief in a God of love, and admittance of sins. Just because i do one more good thing than someone else, doens`t cancel out the thousands of bad things i do every day. Christianity is about mercy, not about hatred and punishment.

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Female 2,228
*Meditates, chants "Overmann Overmann OMMMMM"*
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Male 2,313
"dothedew14

<---is sick of hearing that there`s in omnipotent if you ask me, religious fanatics are far worse of a threat to humanity than a few homosexuals."

For the first (and most likely last) time I agree with you. Fanatics of anything are harmful. The religious people who do good are the ones who interpret the words of whatever god they believe in to mean that we are supposed to help and love one another. Christians who kill in the name of God are blaspheming everything Christianity stands for. And homosexuals are not threatening the race. However, you remain wrong about everything else.

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Male 1,204
"
caboose, i still disagree, God has nothing to do with the pettiness of your life or anyone elses. The personal god in the sense of helping you through lifes troubles is a lasooing techinique of the evangelicals. if anything we are here to serve God, no matter if our life blows or not."

Personally, i think God has everything to do with the "pettiness" of life, he`s omnipotent for a reason. For God, 1 second is a million, a million is 1. if he truely loves us for the creations we are, why wouldn`t he watch over every individual one of us? a father will tend to his son, will he not? God has all the time in the world for each one of us. And you`ll probably counter my statement with "but what about all the prayers unfulfilled, and all the tragedies of the world"

Well my count limit is almost up, i`ll continue in the next post.

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Male 2,245
i appreciate your intelligent response to my question maddog, kudos
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Male 3,369
primetimekin. you pick and choose! End of debate. All religions do it, and till one proves it`s right and the rest is wrong,I`m sat laughing at you all!
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Female 2,228
I do know about religion. I`m a student of comparitive religion. Your Sky Father said "be fruitful and multiply" ergo anyone who isn`t is an affront to God and Nature. We Should all have a mate and have many many children by that reasoning, and if we aren`t we`re in trouble.
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Male 1,204
also queenzira, i believe you`re mistaking my belief for the conventional complete orthodox fundamentalists. i`m not. you`re assuming, and that won`t get us anywhere. Christianity is supposed to be a religion of love, but like anything big, it will be twisted, it will be obscured, and it will be corrupted. don`t blame the idea on what a select few have done
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Male 2,245
caboose, i still disagree, God has nothing to do with the pettiness of your life or anyone elses. The personal god in the sense of helping you through lifes troubles is a lasooing techinique of the evangelicals. if anything we are here to serve God, no matter if our life blows or not.
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Male 3,369
amaqdrinker, you have no idea what your talking about. End of story!
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Male 10
**yea, sorry, i know that freewill malarkey is a never ending debate.. please ignore my last post, or this may never end
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Male 7,933
"BTW, can any of the fundies explain to me why the almighty hasn`t sent my dream guy to me yet?
By that reasoning I should be comfortably paired up w/ a husband by now. I`m waiting..."

because when you search, you wont find. Someone important said that.. oh yeah, me.

". Something that all christians decided to pick and choose from."

Dammit, how many times do I have to repeat myself. We dont pick and chose. There is a reason we follow some and not all. Its in the writing

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Male 1,204
"
<---is sick of hearing that there`s in omnipotent being pulling our strings (or watching making sure we do the right thing before he/she then pulls on them).. OMFG grow up and act like you have some sense.. if you ask me, religious fanatics are far worse of a threat to humanity than a few homosexuals."

Most fanatics in general are threats to humanity, be it Christians, athiests, Jews, Nazis (prob Nazis moreso than others), or Muslims. Christianity has bad rep because we`re the biggest group, everything good we do is "typical", while every bad thing we do is magnified. I`m not saying we don`t make mistakes, but any group will have its fanatics

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Male 2,313
"QueenZira

a small portion of the pop. is gay, It`s not a threat to survival anymore than if I failed to have children.
BTW, can any of the fundies explain to me why the almighty hasn`t sent my dream guy to me yet?
By that reasoning I should be comfortably paired up w/ a husband by now. I`m waiting..."

Until you have at least a decent understanding of religion, I doubt anyone will bother to explain things to you. Smart religious people don`t pretend to know everything religion has to offer, any more than smart physicists pretend to know all the mysteries of the universe.

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Male 3,369
Wrong sixclaws13!

Your jumping on the "Survival of the fittest`s" anology which isnt true! Survival of the species is the correct way to look at it. Nature dosnt automatically know who his going to be the smartest of the fittest does it! therefore your smart gay friends argument is moot!

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Male 2,245
dothedew, your touching on predestination and free will there chief. an endless debate.
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Male 1,204
"The problem with evolution in a species such as humans, is that we no longer follow it. Social Darwin may have a slight effect, however, overall, humans will reproduce before any "

got cut off, before the "negative genes" will show up in humans. we are now providing for the poor, and helping others less fortuanate, giving less chance for natural selection to make way

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Male 2,245
maddog, parents aren`t perfect they cant raise you exactly the same way or filter what you experience perfectly, love your brother just the same, i am in no way saying there is a cure to homosexuality i`m just saying that it is a form of social deviance and a choice, concious or subconcious. I know people who have flip flopped on their sexuality and im sure you do to, whats up with them?
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Male 10
<---is sick of hearing that there`s in omnipotent being pulling our strings (or watching making sure we do the right thing before he/she then pulls on them).. OMFG grow up and act like you have some sense.. if you ask me, religious fanatics are far worse of a threat to humanity than a few homosexuals.
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Male 1,204
"
No, no caboose. I`m not reproducing> I`m an affront to God and Nature. I should be pregnant already, but I`m not.

Come ta think of it, those priests that can`t marry, they have the same problem don`t they???"

No person is an affront to nature. Some people are meant to be fruitful and reproduce, others aren`t. There`s no problem with that. Any Christian who says you`re a bad person for being gay, is basically the pot calling the kettle black.

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Female 2,228
Amaq.
Sexual identity refers to one`s sense of maleness/ femaleness not orientation.

Check the APA site, not Wiki.

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Male 1,204
"sixclaws13, i`m sorry, but i don`t think you understand how evolution (or should i say, the theory of...) works. Nature randomly spits out 1000`s of variations, and through competition and natural selection, the strongest should survive (more often), thus improving the species. That in mind however, i don`t think that applys to humans that much anymore because we don`t eat our young or horde all the food so the weak go hungry. I think your evolution only improves a species idea is completely misinformed.. and your "flame away" ending was a complete DICK thing to say.**unless, of couse, you weren`t using it as a reference to gays, which i doubt**"

I was not using flame away in reference to gays. It is clear you have never seen IAB before. Your whole three posts confirm this."

The problem with evolution in a species such as humans, is that we no longer follow it. Social Darwin may have a slight effect, however, overall, humans will reproduce before any "

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Male 76
That`s funny! People who like women have brains that look alike and vice versa ^_^
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Male 1,204
"
caboose, sorry but i whole heartedly disagree about the whole god sending that chick a husband. God is not here to do your bidding and fix your problems. Don`t buy that evangelical bullpoo"

I never said God was here to fix all our problems. God is here to make us grow, he will give us discipline when neccessary and he will reward us when need be. he isn`t here to sugarcoat our lives, and by all means, our lives should not be "better" in terms of material and superficial views compared to any other person. it just might happen to be that way once in a while

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Female 2,228
No, no caboose. I`m not reproducing> I`m an affront to God and Nature. I should be pregnant already, but I`m not.

Come ta think of it, those priests that can`t marry, they have the same problem don`t they???

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Male 2,245
just warning you guys, i am accepting your failure to respond to my posts as a sign of me proving you wrong
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Male 3,369
Allright easy maddog, if you want to corolate a belief in free will with "bible bashing" then chill out.
----------------------------------------------------
No..because people like you make me want to punch people like you! My youngest brothers gay. He was treated no diffrent to me or my other siblings. So its stupid argument. It`s a known stupid argument yet some Americans dont seem to have figured this out yet! As for the bible bashing statement..well...it`s not your opinion is is. It`s the bibles! A book so shamefully full of plot holes yet accepted as truth. Something that all christians decided to pick and choose from.
when you acctually have an argument based in facts, not fiction, please come back!
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Male 2,313
"dothedew14
3 Posts

sixclaws13, i`m sorry, but i don`t think you understand how evolution (or should i say, the theory of...) works. Nature randomly spits out 1000`s of variations, and through competition and natural selection, the strongest should survive (more often), thus improving the species. That in mind however, i don`t think that applys to humans that much anymore because we don`t eat our young or horde all the food so the weak go hungry. I think your evolution only improves a species idea is completely misinformed.. and your "flame away" ending was a complete DICK thing to say.**unless, of couse, you weren`t using it as a reference to gays, which i doubt**"

I was not using flame away in reference to gays. It is clear you have never seen IAB before. Your whole three posts confirm this.

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Male 1,204
a lot of you haven`t taken your college level biography, have you? lots of your arguements are incredibly specious itsallfake.


although, i am seeing quite a lot less Christian bashing lately. that makes me happy enough. at least a bit of us are now respectful towards each other... the work of the mods?

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Male 2,245
caboose, sorry but i whole heartedly disagree about the whole god sending that chick a husband. God is not here to do your bidding and fix your problems. Don`t buy that evangelical bullpoo
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Male 1,204
"
a small portion of the pop. is gay, It`s not a threat to survival anymore than if I failed to have children.
BTW, can any of the fundies explain to me why the almighty hasn`t sent my dream guy to me yet?
By that reasoning I should be comfortably paired up w/ a husband by now. I`m waiting..."

completely wrong... gay is a direct threat to reproduction, and if 1 to 10 men are guy, that`s an extremely high percent. 10%. apparently higher in women. something`s gone wrong with evolution, or statistics aren`t up to date.

and why God wouldn`t send you a husband? it`s because you`re not ready for it yet. i`m not a conventional fundamentalist, but they`d agree with most Christians that God answers prayers that you are ready for. if it doesn`t progress you in maturity, than it`s not worth answering. no?

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Male 2,245
And by the way, "The American Psychiatric Association has stated "some people believe that sexual orientation is innate and fixed; however, sexual orientation develops across a person’s lifetime."[24] However, the American Psychological Association has stated "most people experience little or no sense of choice about their sexual orientation."[25]"

wikipedia FTW
i drating hate that saying

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Male 2,313
"The_Maddog

Acctually thats quite the wrong way to look at it. If we are talking science and evolution, it makes perfect sense. After all, homosexuality has been observed in many other creatures. The urge to mate is the same as the urge to breed. This is could well be one of evolutions crowd control methods. If a species breeds to much and has no natual predators then food runs out>>"

Evolution undeniably has crowd control methods, but those methods also act to assure that mainly the strong survive and reproduce. Methods to keep the population in check affect the vulnerable, the sick and weak, first, because those are the least desirable to have add their traits to the gene pool. Saying homosexuality is meant to keep a stable population is saying nature is making gays gay to make sure they don`t breed, which I do not believe is true, since some of the smartest, most capable people I know are gay.

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Male 2,245
Maddog, again, If you believe that nature is the sole interpreter of our fate, then how do you deal with a violent criminal. Its just another form of social deviance. Is he born that way?
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Female 631
Lol someone should show this link to the WBC
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Female 675
WOO!!!!!! success
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Male 10
sixclaws13 "If you are gay, and as such you have sex only with your own gender, you will not reproduce. If we were all gay, none of us would reproduce. So in a sense, homosexuality would be a threat to a species survival."

or finally it would usher in some much needed population control.

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Female 2,228
a small portion of the pop. is gay, It`s not a threat to survival anymore than if I failed to have children.
BTW, can any of the fundies explain to me why the almighty hasn`t sent my dream guy to me yet?
By that reasoning I should be comfortably paired up w/ a husband by now. I`m waiting...
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Male 2,245
Allright easy maddog, if you want to corolate a belief in free will with "bible bashing" then chill out.
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Male 2,245
Maddog, because the parents did not treat the twins the same way, or because one twin experienced something different, or interpreted something different, or because a million other things
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Male 3,369
Oh..amaqdrinker is a bible basher!

Go figure! Someone who belives in invisible sky beings! Well..we wont be listening to your opinion because "the bible says so" isnt a valid one!

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Male 2,245
all i was saying in that first post is that once you draw the line in the sand saying that people are predetermined by nature, then other things may follow.
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Male 10
**and yes, your comment irked me so bad, that i finally had to create an account to i could speak my mind.
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Male 3,369
Oh and amaqdrinker.

The whole nature vs nurture is a bs argument. Why would 1 person turn out gay but not their siblings?
Why would one twin be straight but the other gay (yes I do know a set of twin`s and thats exactly what happened).

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Male 2,313
"QueenZira

Evolution does not select out gayness b/c it`s not a threat to survival. It happens and is about as important as having blue eyes or red hair. It makes no difference in the specie`s survival anymore than an individual that doesn`t reproduce. You sound just like the Saddleback minister."

If you are gay, and as such you have sex only with your own gender, you will not reproduce. If we were all gay, none of us would reproduce. So in a sense, homosexuality would be a threat to a species survival.

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Male 2,245
sexuality is not something inherently physical. it is a very mental part of our development and our understanding of the world. we do not understand our brains as much as we think we do. the free will bit has a lot to do with the fact that i actually believe in God, imagine that, and that science is not a savior. and on that note the bible classifies homosexuality as confusion, not abomination or horrible sin, and i agree.
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Male 10
sixclaws13, i`m sorry, but i don`t think you understand how evolution (or should i say, the theory of...) works. Nature randomly spits out 1000`s of variations, and through competition and natural selection, the strongest should survive (more often), thus improving the species. That in mind however, i don`t think that applys to humans that much anymore because we don`t eat our young or horde all the food so the weak go hungry. I think your evolution only improves a species idea is completely misinformed.. and your "flame away" ending was a complete DICK thing to say.**unless, of couse, you weren`t using it as a reference to gays, which i doubt**
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Male 12,138
Come on fake, that last bit about myspace starts to sound like a personal attack. Behave man, no-one wants to start deleting posts here. Let`s keep it in respectful debate mode.
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Male 3,369
>> and the whole lot die. You have the same problem with disease...but this..this could well be one of natures little subclauses.You cant switch off the urge to pair up..but this fits! Anyway..it works well.Gay Flamingoes and Pengins for example, (yes they have been observed..just google it) have been seen to adobt abandoned eggs / chicks and hatch them.

My point is..I dont think it`s a choice. I know enough gay men and women and all of them state it`s how they have allways felt and how they will allways feel.

And even if it was a choice just leave them the hell alone. Its none of your business!

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Male 474
Anyway, im off to class and wont be on the rest of the night... happy debate biathces...
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Male 2,245
genetics is a fuzzy science that could lead us into some horrifying results
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Female 2,228
amaqdrinker: What are you smoking?

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Male 474
sooooo... by your logic i am choosing to be white... right, because after all it is my free will to act white accordingly and therefore my genetics should have no impact on my free will... LAME....
I think you need to realise that genetics does play a role in a lot of things, it is our free will to accept those roles or try to deny them. By genetics i should be an alcaholic, because it is supposedly genetic, but by free will i dont drink more than once a month thereby denying my body and my genetics the instruments of destruction it is programmed to do...
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Male 2,245
And the last thing I read on brain development, a piece in National Geographic about a year back, stressed the effect of experience at a young age on the various outcomes. Our brains are being formed by nature and nurture throughout our childhood, and I believe the article said, into our early 20s.
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Male 3,369
sixclaws13
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
128 Posts
[ Delete Post ] Tuesday, September 16, 2008 1:57:40 PM
I`m straight so I can`t say from experience, but I think it is insulting to say that gays are born gay. Evolution makes the creatures, including humans, that it thinks are the best and strongest more likely to reproduce. If nature made people gay, then it gave them no chance to reproduce, which means evolution is trying to get rid of them. I have nothing against gay people, but I think it`s a choice. That`s my opinion, flame away.
--------------------------------------------------

Acctually thats quite the wrong way to look at it. If we are talking science and evolution, it makes perfect sense. After all, homosexuality has been observed in many other creatures. The urge to mate is the same as the urge to breed. This is could well be one of evolutions crowd control methods. If a species breeds to much and has no natual predators then food runs out>>

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Male 474
rikakitty
Female, 13-17, Eastern US

13-17? seriously? your going to try and come at us like you lived a 100 lifetimes and your not even old enough to know what you want out of life... please... let the grown ups have a real debate, meanwhile you go back to myspace and write a blog and watch Cribs, or Flavor of love...

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Male 2,245
Lets talk about Freud. If you agree with at least the basic Freudian principle of sex and aggression being the fundamental driving forces of an individual, and you believe that people are born sexually deviant, then you must also believe that people can be born aggressively deviant. If you are born gay, then you are born violent. Lets kill all these violent criminals because they just can`t change, its not their choice. To question the existence of free will, even on a subconcious level, leads you down a frightening path. Once they get our genes all mapped out and think they found the "gay gene", or god forbid the "criminal gene", the implications of blindly believing this could be horrifying. Freedom and free will are essential to being a human, be careful to doubt them.
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Male 474
sorry that last bit was trolling... But i meant every word of the first bit...
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Male 474
until you realise that maybe gay is a form of population control. The human species is growing faster than its species was designed to. The reason humans do not have litters is because of the lifespan and their ability to adapt. Population is spinning out of control, earthly resources are being used up faster and faster and before long we will have consumed everything leaving nothing for our species to survive. After it is all gone the only choice we face is canabalism. But then that crazy god of abraham who loves punishing people more than loving them, will end it all soon anyway, right fundies?
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Female 364
both of my kitties are gay.... I think....
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Female 683
Hm. Well, considering I, at one point, liked boys, it`s clear that I was not born a lesbian. People`s tastes differ as they grow older. I suppose I just gradually decided that penis is and always will be disgusting. It`s a choice. Stop trying to make excuses for the differences in our world. People are just afraid of what they don`t understand. They need bullpoo research like this to make themselves feel better, like it`s some kind of drating condition you can make better. We are the way we are. Get the drat over it.
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Female 2,228
Evolution does not select out gayness b/c it`s not a threat to survival. It happens and is about as important as having blue eyes or red hair. It makes no difference in the specie`s survival anymore than an individual that doesn`t reproduce. You sound just like the Saddleback minister.

*Silken cord descends from ceilling* *Yank*
Overmann I summon you!! Your scientific know how is needed!

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Male 650
""What you can say is:
(I dont remember what specific side it is so just pretend the details are right)

There is statistical significance that people with a bigger left side of the brain, suggest that they like men.

"There is physical evidence - a correlation between the two is evidence....what on earth is your definition of evidence?"

No, the only time you can have evidence is in an experiment. In a correlational study there are way too many possible variables.

For example: there is a statistical significance that shows that limiting the amount of tv a child watches, show to go with higher test scores. (cont)""

The issue I`m pointing out isn`t if there is evidence, its that you`re dogging the journalist for misrepresenting the facts - which looks like he isn`t doing. Now, if the scientist is the one who is drawing a line and calling it clear evidence, then that`s another issue entirely.

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Male 2,313
I`m straight so I can`t say from experience, but I think it is insulting to say that gays are born gay. Evolution makes the creatures, including humans, that it thinks are the best and strongest more likely to reproduce. If nature made people gay, then it gave them no chance to reproduce, which means evolution is trying to get rid of them. I have nothing against gay people, but I think it`s a choice. That`s my opinion, flame away.
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Female 2,228
Remember the other research people!

And will the fundies please knock it off, we know you`re hiding under bad propaganda to disguise the fact that you have no good reasoning.

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Male 474
It is sad that there is so much hate coming from the religion whose doctorine is love thy neighbor, do unto others, blah blah blah. I see and hear so much "God hates (insert group of people here)" that really the message is starting read more like "God Hates". Which after reading most of the bible, i think im inclined to agree. God hates you, me, all of us, everything. Nothing will survive God`s hatred. That`s why he`s going to kill the world you know. Oh there might be a select few who are able to get on his good side and he has set special pen aside for them. But for the most part, he hates the world and everyone in it. That`s okay though, I have found happiness in the belief that there is one higher than the psycho childish god of abraham... but that is for another time...
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Female 2,228
And again, use yourself as exibit A.
As a straight woman I`ve never had an urge to be lesbian. Why? B/c it can`t be done that`s why!

Anyone who`d like to contradict me please put your money where your mouth is and take my "Gay for a day" challenge and become legitmately gay yourself. It simply can`t be done.
And lets go a step further here, how ridiculous is the notion that somehow your parents "teach" your orientation? I mean I totally had the "how to like men talk" from my parents. Absurd.

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Male 14,331

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Female 2,228
Remember the other research people!

And will the fundies please knock it off, we know you`re hiding under bad propaganda to disguise the fact that you have no good reasoning.

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Female 960
Ah IAB, let the flames cometh!
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Male 474
I have a gay cat too btw... Someone tell me how that is a choice?
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Male 77
this logic proves that some people are born violent and others are not. also many other comparisons. i think we should address those children with a violent nature earlier on.
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Male 474
"...as well as gays who went straight and had fine marriages, never agains desiring to go back, to say it is strictly a birth issue"

Oh i think there are those that willingly try to buck the system just to either be different or to gain attention. There is also the opposite end, someone who lied to themselves for years trying to convince themselves they are straight, maybe they are even born again and member of their church, but deep down they know they are gay. Their whole lives they lie to themselves for the sake of their family or church or society. Then one day they break down, admit to themselves what theyve always known inside. It tears apart families, but that person gets tired of living a lie... Theres an argument here for all sides...

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Male 129
Funny, just a couple spaces down is an article about how a vegan diet will shrink the brain-it isn`t "BRAIN" surgery to figure out that your life and habits and even diet efffect you brain`s structure. So really, we`re back to square one-it could be choice or not. Far too many people have decided they were gay or lesbian later in life, as well as gays who went straight and had fine marriages, never agains desiring to go back, to say it is strictly a birth issue
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Female 1,589
So I guess if you are sexually confused you should get a CAT Scan.
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Male 1,894
I`m not going to touch this one with your 10 foot pole...
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Male 533
"if they you love someone, thats why theyd go against the norm. that was stupid"

...That`s exactly what they were saying, they`re on your side there.

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Male 14,331
"And bi people are....."

Somewhere in the middle.

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Male 1,053
ofc its a choice
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Male 5,970
And bi people are.....
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Male 474
Those of you thinking it is a "Choice" have not grown up or been especially close to someone who is gay. My sister is gay, and we knew for a long time, even as a child, that she would be. We denied it to ourselves, tried to coerce her into doing things the straight way, but to no avail. She was always gay, we could see that, and when she finally admitted to everyone, we were not surprised. Our reaction was "Yeah, we saw this coming". The problem i think most bible thumpers are this. To them every child created by god is perfect and holy as only god can make a child. God would never make a child gay in the womb. To prove that homosexuality is indeed determined by birth suggests that God doesn`t dictate the creation of children, therefore children aren`t a miracle of God, therefore God is not all powerful, therefore there is no God. Basically, the thumpers have to convince themselves that its a choice, whipsered to them by satan rather than something coded in genetics
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Female 44
if so, who would choose to go against the norm, face discrimination and a drastically lower amount of potential mates?"
if they you love someone, thats why theyd go against the norm. that was stupid
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Male 2,593
I think we should scan Tom Cruise
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Male 274
Tuesday, September 16, 2008 1:02:05 PM
take that annoying religious fanatics!
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Is it just me, or do the non religious folks start the debates (read:Flame Wars)

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Male 533
"...if its something there born with if it isnt something there born with who cares..."

I agree, it doesn`t really matter. People are human no matter what, and that`s really the most important thing. Unfortunately, not everyone holds that value for other people`s happiness.

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Female 9
"As far as I`m concerned there is no argument any more - if you are gay, you are born gay"

Dr Qazi Rahman
Queen Mary, University of London

I couldn`t help but chuckle at "Queen Mary"! It`s so ironic given the subject! Anyone else read that wrong at first?

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Male 901
Well actually, every opinion you have makes some kind of physical impression on the mind. While I don`t think that one`s sexuality is a choice (if so, who would choose to go against the norm, face discrimination and a drastically lower amount of potential mates?), this article doesn`t prove it.
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Male 7,933
" if you have a problem with it then click on another link."

But then fancy doesnt pay his rent....

"No offence guys but I`m going to go with a University of London study published in the peer-reviewed scientific literature, rather than Foote, cdpickels09 and primetimekin..."

I was fine with the study until I read the quote by the scientist... that sounded like experimenter bias (God my psychology teacher has that word engraved in my head)

Well im off for an hour, hopefully there will be a good debate brewing. Hold down the fort davy

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Female 44
i think people need to shut up if its something there born with if it isnt something there born with who cares. They have a right to love who ever they want if you have a problem with it then click on another link.
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Male 533
And even if it is influenced by other things, that`s still not exactly a choice. Maybe a subconscious one, but not one that can be changed.
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Male 12,138
vv "i agree with foote. i have nothing against gays (certainly nothing religious) but sexual prefreence just like everything else is a choice."

No offence guys but I`m going to go with a University of London study published in the peer-reviewed scientific literature, rather than Foote, cdpickels09 and primetimekin...

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Male 533
..."Statistically significant"...

Exactly...

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Male 7,933
theuhstuff, quick trolling, thats why I deleted your previous 2.
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Female 121
take that annoying religious fanatics!
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Male 7,933
And to make it somewhat related so maybe you can see where im getting at.

It could possibly be that people with a bigger left side of the brain are more artistic. Then they are influenced by outside sources such as media that leads them to believe that people who are artistic are women, or gay men. Child then associates himself with gay men.

Im not saying that is the case, but for reasons like that you cant call it evidence. You can say its correlation, or statistically significant

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Female 168
primetimekin you are an idiot
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Male 533
...Like I said, it`s still evidence, it`s just not proof. Just like in a murder case. If the evidence points to one person, it doesn`t necessarily mean they committed the crime.
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Male 298
i agree with foote

i have nothing against gays (certainly nothing religious) but sexual prefreence just like everything else is a choice.

also correlation doesnt prove poo.

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Male 7,933
You cant say that there is evidence that tv causes poor grades. It may be other factors such as, if you give up, you might spend your time watching tv.

so you cant say its evidence, but you can say there is a correlation.

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Male 7,933
"Hmm.. when a scientist says "As far as I`m concerned there is no argument any more - if you are gay, you are born gay," then chances are the words of the journalist are accurate to what is mentioned in the article regarding if it was evidence or not."

Correlational studies are never evidence.

What you can say is:
(I dont remember what specific side it is so just pretend the details are right)

There is statistical significance that people with a bigger left side of the brain, suggest that they like men.

"There is physical evidence - a correlation between the two is evidence....what on earth is your definition of evidence?"

No, the only time you can have evidence is in an experiment. In a correlational study there are way too many possible variables.

For example: there is a statistical significance that shows that limiting the amount of tv a child watches, show to go with higher test scores. (cont)

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Male 14,331
Why the hell would it be a choice how do you explain it happening with animals or children that sometimes display the signs before they even know.
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Male 533
"God I hate journalism. This isn`t evidence. Its correlation."

Correlation IS evidence. It`s evidence, not proof.

And to everyone else. If you like dogs better than cats, you can`t CHOOSE to like cats better. You can pretend to like cats better, but that`s not the same thing.

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Male 510
So how do they explain bisexual people? There must be some kind of difference.
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Female 194
See? We have cooler brains. :P And `Foote`, I will stick my `foote` up your homophobic ass. Maybe you`ll like it. (See, I made a sodomy joke!)
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Male 375
I really don`t care wether your gay or strait, I don`t like the word "homophobe" tho. It is a made up word, just because a person doesn`t agree with the gay life style does not mean they are afraid of gay people. It is just an opinion, and everyone has one. What about heterophobe? Are gay people heterophobes?
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Female 311
what is wrong with you lot? Why on earth would this be a choice. Young men commit suicide over this, I bet every day they wished they had been born straight. The ignorance and plain stupidity of some people over in the US is mind-numbing.

There is physical evidence - a correlation between the two is evidence....what on earth is your definition of evidence?

They also found a similar thing with men who wanted a sex change. Thank God we are so ignorant over in the UK (I won`t say Europe because lets be honest there are still some parts that are as backward as the US).

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Male 650
""God I hate journalism. This isn`t evidence. Its correlation."

Hmm.. when a scientist says "As far as I`m concerned there is no argument any more - if you are gay, you are born gay," then chances are the words of the journalist are accurate to what is mentioned in the article regarding if it was evidence or not.

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Male 12,138
Suck it the f*ck up, Christian homophobes!
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Male 109
Gay or straight, is a choice. You aren`t born gay. You are born straight. You become gay. People are dumbasses.
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Male 7,933
"A UK scientist said this was evidence sexual orientation was set in the womb."

God I hate journalism. This isn`t evidence. Its correlation.

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Female 385
Link: Gay and Straight Brains are Physically Different [Rate Link] - Just more proof that it`s not a choice, but something you`re born with or without.
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