Atheist Discrimination In Army

Submitted by: Pooptart19 9 years ago in

Seems like there"s quite a few Evangelical Christians with a not so hidden agenda. Warning: Flame War Inevitable
There are 144 comments:
Male 22
Vid`s been removed. *grrrr*
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Male 26
planet.

They tell us to open our minds and embrace their religion? I will NOT (including this site) listen to anyone who hasn`t at least tried more than one religion. The reason being they have nothing to compare their religion to, and the fact they have such a blind faith (most likely induced by parents, a fear of death, or someone dying i.e. a hope to see them again) and thus makes any attempts at debate with them like talking to a brick wall.

By all means, I know and like many people who follow their own religious beliefs - as a way to better themselves, because they like to think there`s life after death or simply because they enjoy it - and thats great! :)

It`s when people force it upon others, or make them uncomfortable to do so, that makes me DESPISE them as people. I`ve studied the U.S.A. and its religion at University in the UK, and am amazed at the cult-like (think of the Masons) tendencies it`s showing. And hardly anyone even sees it. (expecting rants now)

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Male 26
planet.

They tell us to open our minds and embrace their religion? I will NOT (including this site) listen to anyone who hasn`t at least tried more than one religion. The reason being they have nothing to compare their religion to, and the fact they have such a blind faith (most likely induced by parents, a fear of death, or someone dying i.e. a hope to see them again) and thus makes any attempts at debate with them like talking to a brick wall.

By all means, I know and like many people who follow their own religious beliefs - as a way to better themselves, because they like to think there`s life after death or simply because they enjoy it - and thats great! :)

It`s when people force it upon others, or make them uncomfortable to do so, that makes me DESPISE them as people. I`ve studied the U.S.A. and its religion at University in the UK, and am amazed at the cult-like (think of the Masons) tendencies it`s showing. And hardly anyone even sees it. (expecting rants now)

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Male 26
planet.

They tell us to open our minds and embrace their religion? I will NOT (including this site) listen to anyone who hasn`t at least tried more than one religion. The reason being they have nothing to compare their religion to, and the fact they have such a blind faith (most likely induced by parents, a fear of death, or someone dying i.e. a hope to see them again) and thus makes any attempts at debate with them like talking to a brick wall.

By all means, I know and like many people who follow their own religious beliefs - as a way to better themselves, because they like to think there`s life after death or simply because they enjoy it - and thats great! :)

It`s when people force it upon others, or make them uncomfortable to do so, that makes me DESPISE them as people. I`ve studied the U.S.A. and its religion at University in the UK, and am amazed at the cult-like (think of the Masons) tendencies it`s showing. And hardly anyone even sees it. (expecting rants now)

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Male 26
planet.

They tell us to open our minds and embrace their religion? I will NOT (including this site) listen to anyone who hasn`t at least tried more than one religion. The reason being they have nothing to compare their religion to, and the fact they have such a blind faith (most likely induced by parents, a fear of death, or someone dying i.e. a hope to see them again) and thus makes any attempts at debate with them like talking to a brick wall.

By all means, I know and like many people who follow their own religious beliefs - as a way to better themselves, because they like to think there`s life after death or simply because they enjoy it - and thats great! :)

It`s when people force it upon others, or make them uncomfortable to do so, that makes me DESPISE them as people. I`ve studied the U.S.A. and its religion at University in the UK, and am amazed at the cult-like (think of the Masons) tendencies it`s showing. And hardly anyone even sees it. (expecting rants now)

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Male 1,497
""There are no Atheist in Fox Holes"

Great line."

Gotta love M*A*S*H*. xD

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Female 247
Is this the one you were talking about?
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Female 247
I think I may have that image that somebody was too afraid to put up...lemme find it...I`ll put it in one of the next few posts...
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Female 327
I`m an atheist and I was in the army and spent a year in Iraq. I didn`t feel discriminated against. If there was something religious going on, I just didn`t participate. How other soldiers responded to me depended on the soldier. One christian soldier made a case to the higher ups that those who don`t attend a church service should NOT be made to clean the barracks instead, which they almost made us do. So, most of the theists were totally cool. I only spoke out about my atheism when I was asked about my beliefs. Otherwise, I figured it was nobody`s business.
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Male 1,399
Another stupid thing about this case: The guy started an "atheist club" or something?

WTF do we need meetings for? Worship of the fact we don`t need to worship?

Let the kool-aid drinkers have their churches; forming an Atheist Club was just pouring gas on the fire.

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Female 93
Someone further back said that ruling by religion doesn`t work. Some places that is true. But ruling by pure atheism, died miserably. Communism set up by Lenin was completely Athiest, had they eased back on religion perhaps there would be more communist nations doing it right. Only Cuba has managed that and it is extremely poor because USA refuses to trade with it. People should not discriminate against others because of what they believe. We need unity. I have atheist friends and Christian friends. (I am Christian myself)and I don`t raise the matter with my atheist comrades. Easy. We respect each others rights to believe w/e we want.
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Male 1,455
"If the majority of your unit is religious, you need to respect that. A couple minutes of bowing your head isn`t going to hurt you."

The whole point of religious freedom is that you can believe what you like without having to conform to any other religion.

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Female 4,028
[quote]So...bowing your head for 2 minutes is going to kill you.[/quote]And someone not bowing their head is going to kill you?
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Male 180
Except that Army isn`t supposed to be religious by rules for the same concept: Unit before Individual.
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Male 1,399
We don`t need to pose hypothetical situations here. We have specifics of this one.

Army is about killing things and destroying property. People who kill other people tend to have strict codes they adhere to; stricter than the general public.

Again, I`m an atheist (you seem to have missed that above) so I do not take religion seriously. I would bow my head for the same reason I would get a unit tattoo or say "oorah" or do any other silly thing that is traditional.

I`m an atheist, and I can wrap my head around this concept: unit before individual.

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Male 180
Baelzar, would you simulate any Mulsulman praying posture just to do like everybody else?

You probably wouldn`t, so why are you asking others to simulute yours?

Army is about mutual respect, mutual support and collective objective achievement. You can do that wihtout any sort of belief.

Because you don`t believe in God you don`t deserve your army mates respect and support?

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Male 180
It is just not possible not to associate wars in Iraq with Holy war when you supposely fight `mulsulmans` (only tiny fraction are extremists) and your President close every single speech with `God bless America` and talk about the `Evil`...

C`mon, everybody can make that link -and it`s pretty obvious.

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Male 108
Yes, bow your head to my god or else! If it`s the Christian god then you`ll burn in hell for eternity. If it`s Allah you won`t bow to, then I`ll just have to chop off your head. But please, whatever you do, don`t make waves and upset the zealots by pointing out that their imaginary sky-daddy is neither real, nor worthy of bowing to.
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Male 1,399
So...bowing your head for 2 minutes is going to kill you.

Seriously. Bowing your head is going to make you believe in some god?

Bowing your head for a couple of minutes, to get along and keep the peace, is going to destroy your atheism?

Atheism, to me, means I DO NOT get offended at the small stuff like that. Let the religious people freak out. Not me.

Because that`s what we`re talking about here. This kid (an ex-Baptist, for crying out loud) wouldn`t BOW HIS FRIGGIN` HEAD while others prayed.

This makes atheists look as bad as the born-agains. You have to go along to get along, ESPECIALLY in the military.

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Male 108
Baelzar,

So why is religion off limits? I can criticize your politics, your taste in movies or music, your scientific theories, your conspiracy theories, but for some reason I have to show respect for your superstitions? That`s not the way it should be.

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Female 4,028
If you`d be willing to respect their wishes, Baelzar, shouldn`t they be willing to do the same? Just because they are in the majority, does not mean you have to go along with their beliefs.
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Male 1,399
People like this can give atheists a bad name.

I dislike outspoken atheists just as much as I dislike outspoken people of religion.

If the majority of your unit is religious, you need to respect that. A couple minutes of bowing your head isn`t going to hurt you.

I`m an atheist, yet I wouldn`t want to damage unit morale by being an as.shole about it.

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Male 4,680
Dulce et Decorum Est.
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Male 13
...WOW...

i hate the army... and religion...

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Female 1
I was in the army for over 10 years and had several atheists in my unit. They were never discriminated against or passed over for promotion. Sometimes commanders overstep their authority and push a personal agenda onto their troops. It`s against DoD policy and can poison the working relationship of an entire unit. I don`t know how much responsibility the Department of the Army should take in this, but SPC Hall`s immediate command is definitely at fault for creating an intolerant atmosphere and allowing discriminatory behavior to continue.
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Female 4,028
"I`m going to threaten to kill you because you don`t believe in God!"
How very Christian...
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Male 266
Also Ricki24, you say you`re not taking sides but in your post you stated the scenario that makes the atheist the person who started the whole thing =/
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Male 266
Seperation of church and state is the biggest lie I have ever heard in my life. Thats all I have to say on things like this
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Male 162
thanks for beating me to the punch, pat

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Male 26
planet.

They tell us to open our minds and embrace their religion? I will NOT (including this site) listen to anyone who hasn`t at least tried more than one religion. The reason being they have nothing to compare their religion to, and the fact they have such a blind faith (most likely induced by parents, a fear of death, or someone dying i.e. a hope to see them again) and thus makes any attempts at debate with them like talking to a brick wall.

By all means, I know and like many people who follow their own religious beliefs - as a way to better themselves, because they like to think there`s life after death or simply because they enjoy it - and thats great! :)

It`s when people force it upon others, or make them uncomfortable to do so, that makes me DESPISE them as people. I`ve studied the U.S.A. and its religion at University in the UK, and am amazed at the cult-like (think of the Masons) tendencies it`s showing. And hardly anyone even sees it. (expecting rants now)

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Male 26
up.

Also, pictures mean nothing. They are a good contrast, Patthebaker, but it really doesn`t mean anything when the U.S. Army is notorious (like almost every other country) for its media propoganda. Even if it wasn`t staged (I`m inclined to say this is genuine), you do the usual biased thing and ignore the images of americans torturing and burning civilians.

I`m not being biased here - I`m NOT saying "oh every american soldier is a crazed blood-fuelled masochist because I saw it on Fahrenheit 911" but I despise the blind statements people make like Patthebakers because it`s such a childish train of thought.

I get approached by self-acclaimed "proper" Christian folk who campaign on the streets regularly, and it`s like talking to a brick wall. They never expect me to argue their points and when I make a good point, they simply ignore me and change the topic. I`ve always found -really- religious people to be fascinating as they have the most closed minds on the

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Female 1,264
The Sixth Commandment: Thou Shalt Not Kill

F*ckin hypocrites

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Male 26
Right that is IT. Read what I`m typing very carefully because most of the posts are absolute rubbish. :)

The U.S. army has serious issues, and that`s an understatement. Yes, we can beg the question "where does the line get drawn" when it comes to religious issues, but then again a TRUE christian would NEVER, if given the option, sign up to kill people in Iraq. Fair enough if it`s conscription or defending your own country, but going out to invade another country? You can`t even argue with that (and don`t get me started on the motives for attacking the country).

Having to pray before meals? Wow, at least these poorly-practising christians can redeem themselves somewhat, but DRAGGING others along to it, forcing them to join in if they want to get promoted... people aren`t even given the choice of becoming sheep nowadays, they`re forced to.

How can you argue with the issue of -having- to commit a religious act so as to get fair treatment? Half the people here need to wake

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Male 60
Patthebaker, I love your response.
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Female 244
"... This make the US Army no better than the Nazis."

WHAT??? What on earth does the US Army have ANYTHING in common with the Nazis???
US Army Saves. The Nazis killed.
*thinks*
Gee...hmm...nope, can`t find anything in common. Sorry.

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Female 244
Not only does this make Christians look bad, but the Army too. The guy probably did/said something disrespectful to the other troops, and they might have asked him to stop, and he didn`t, and it escalates...just one of many possible scenarios(sp? I`m dumb today). I`m not taking any sides, because I was of no part of the issue....as of yet.
Life is just getting soooo out of hand...*shrugs*
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Male 1,766
"... This make the US Army no better than the Nazis."


You cant tell the difference?

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Male 187
That soldier has a God given right to be an atheist if that`s what he wants to be.
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Male 68
... This make the US Army no better than the Nazis.
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Male 150
i do think this is sad, yes everyone is allowed to their beliefs, and is by all right allowed not to like that belief, they don`t have to go out and do something about it, but they can just not like it, like i don`t children

as for the whole "christian nation" it is true that a majority of americans are christian, there are many branches of christianity, but still they are united on the idea of Jesus

But the country is set up to be secular, and the reason why the founding fathers did set it up, was because they went to America, enduring many hardships, fought a great war against a tyranical leader who wanted to control their thoughts, their land, their beliefs, and control of weapons. After they just finished fighting such a tyrant they set up the Bill of Rights, so everyone can speak what they want, defend themselves, and are protecting from spread search warrants (the right of search and seizure). And sadly that view is being lost in my opinion.

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Male 61
DAINTY... I think i love you
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Male 891
i did 4 years in the marine corps (march 03-07) and was (and currently) very openly atheist. i never felt discriminated against.

i caught sh_t once in a while from my peers and superiors, but nothing that ever made me feel like i was being punished or anything for it. but that pretty much just comes with being atheist, i guess.

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Male 1,931
Good to know that some people in the news cares about the constitution.
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Female 195
"FLAME ON" Hahaha, I remember that.

Anyway, I don`t think USA can call itself a free country and limit religious boundaries.

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Female 2,228
Ya know, I just realized something. We`re all treating each other with respect! We are having a mature conversation about religion + politics and no one yet has been killed!
Nice job everyone!
*Hugs and handshakes all round*
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Female 15,763
That`s the word, Prime. Thanks.
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Male 1,766
It probably dosnt make a difference but when i used to go to a church youth group they told us that the whole thou shalt not murder thing actually means not to hate your fellow man.
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Male 243
thou shalt not murder.. nettech..., thou shalt not murder...
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Male 162
"I`m not surprised, really.
Because of the whole religious founding of this country, and whatever else, I don`t really care.

And what political(?) figure was it who said something along the lines of: "If you didn`t believe in god, then you aren`t a true American."..?

I don`t remember who it was, or maybe I`m just making things up.
Though it sure sounds like someone some nutjob would say."

Well America was founded on Protestant beliefs (actually extreme Protestantism, Calvinists and Quakers). America is basically a Christian country. Yes the constitution says freedom of religion but with all due respect I have a feeling the founding fathers were talking about Christianity as a whole and they were not thinking about other religions. Remember even though it says All men created equal, Slaves were most certainly not equal in America.

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Male 2,422
Prime: No miracles, faith is not important, the bible is not the revealed word of God, no orignial sin, and no Jesus (divinely speaking historically he was a real person). In fact, most deists hated Christianity as much, if not more, than any atheist seeing being founded on superstition rather than rational principals. So no most deists were not Christains though they believed in God. Just like Jews and Muslims belive in the same God that Christains do but are not themselves Christains. This of course led the Christains to accuse them all of being atheists, which most probably became. Though I think Unitarians are deists. Do we have any Unitarians here who can shed some light on this?
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Male 1,073
True prime! But we`re flaming about religion... lol...

And you`ve got to admit, religion - unlike the others you list - usually hold human life in high regard. "Thou shall not kill", etc... So it seems especially hypocritical if nothing else.

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Male 7,933
"How many wars have been fought in the name of religion? How many basic human rights have been oppressed in the name of religion? How many people have been put to death because of their beliefs?"
Replace with Communism.
Or Money.
Or Land

Stays the same.

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Male 7,933
Deism just means you believe there is a god who doesn`t take part in everyday life. You still believe (in the fore founders case) in Christian Principles and that there is a heaven and hell but that Miracles dont exist
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Male 1,073
How many wars have been fought in the name of religion? How many basic human rights have been oppressed in the name of religion? How many people have been put to death because of their beliefs?

The ones I love are when the splinter groups start killing each other... Protestants versus Catholics, Sunnis versus Shiites, etc. They all believe in the same God, but just have some different views. So they kill each other. In the name of their God.

Gotta love religion!

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Male 2,422
Prime: Deism is closer to agnosticism or even atheism than to mainstream christianity. That`s why it`s dead.
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Female 1,441
^^well said Overmann.
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Male 19
2:09 minute mark FTW
SUCK IT
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Male 1,073
You want to call them "more restrictive rights"? Can you be fined or put in jail if you don`t do what your boss tells you? Or if you don`t show up for work? Or quit? How about if you tell him to go pound salt? Sounds like "free speech" to me...

The list goes on...

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Male 2,605
"If I`m at some get-together or dinner and the majority are Christians, and they say grace for dinner or anything, I`ll do the same out of respect. No one has any respect these days."

Indeed, not even the religionists. What I don`t understand is why respecting their beliefs must take precedence over them respecting my lack of belief. If I don`t want to say grace or bow my head and mumble to the sky, there should be no pressure from their part for me to do so. I`m perfectly capable of showing respect, I just choose not to when it means contradicting my own views.

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Female 2,228
Somebody call the ACLU!!!
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Male 7,933
Queen, yes they do lose rights. I have family members in the military.

You lose many rights such as protesting (even family members do), and strikes, etc.

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Female 2,228
On another note, on the founding of this country as a Christian nation...I`m sure the Indians would sure be suprised!
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Male 7,933
"In fact, most of the men practiced what we would call a sort of agnosticism."

Deist? They were still christian but christian deist

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Female 2,228
nettech, I don`t remember anything that says as soon as you join the military you lose your constitutional rights. Sure, the military has rules +regulations, but so do the States. And none of the States laws override the Constitution.
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Male 1,073
I believe it was most likely that act that brought the scorn of his peers and his chain of command. That is one thing they pound into your head... use the chain of command.

His case will likely be thrown out of court because of the very fact that he did not first attempt to use the remedies provided for by military regulations, instead choosing to do things his way.

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Female 15,763
The founding of this country in relation to religion was very loose. The "founding fathers" believed that one should be able to practice their religious freedom. In fact, most of the men practiced what we would call a sort of agnosticism.

Those things you mention, Dainty, were added in to the United States later, after it was already founded. "Under God" was added during the cold war to separate ourselves from the communists.

So the country was founded on religious freedom, but with a touch of spirituality.

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Male 1,073
His initial complaint is that a meeting of atheists was distrupted by an officer and was a violation of his First Amendment rights.

He continues that he was discriminated against by being denied promotion because of his religious views.

First of all, in the military, you do not have the same constitutional rights as every other citizen. You only have the rights granted to you by law through regulation and policy. You can`t just say or do what you want when you want.

That being said, it sounds like the Major was out of line in his behavior. But this is where it gets complicated...

There are many ways to seek redress for an alleged violation of regulation or his individual rights. This includes filing an Equal Opportunity complaint, or approaching his chain of command, among others.

He chose not to do so. Instead he went to the MRFF, in clear violation of the very regulations that could have protected him. Here, he was very wrong.

continued....

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Male 7,933
Holy snap! Did overmanns post jump over mine and get sandwiched in between?
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Male 362
He`s proabably an atheist who makes it very clear that he thinks your religion is trash. Sometimes I`m ashamed to be in the same demographic as atheists. If I`m at some get-together or dinner and the majority are Christians, and they say grace for dinner or anything, I`ll do the same out of respect.

No one has any respect these days.

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Male 7,933
"Hey, you don`t have to pray with someone to respect them."

Not in that case. In most cases sure but in war, if your not respected you cant lead. It was obvious that in that base prayer was very important. He should have switched bases

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Male 2,605
Thanks for your kindness."

I`m not known for my kindness, so deal.

"In God We Trust" and "under God" were additions made to our currency and Pledge of Allegiance, respectively, in only recent history, meaning they have *nothing* to do with the foundations of this country. Want to not be called a ditz? Learn your f*cking history before you raise an argument.

As far as the Declaration of Independence goes, there are only two mentions of a god (God and Creator) and they`re both made in the context of where our rights come from. In no way do they pertain to any religious foundation. And so long as we`re on foundation documents, if you`d carefully read your Constitution, you`d notice the effort made to secure the United States as a secular nation, not a religious one.

"As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion..."

Treaty of Tripoli, 1796.

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Male 7,933
"Atheist in the army? Thats weird they are usually more intelligent then that. There are no atheist`s in foxholes because they don`t get into them in the first place."

So being patriotic is now considered idiotic?

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Female 1,427
"Anyway, it should be pretty obvious that he doesnt deserve promotion. If you dont have the respect of the people who are shooting right beside you, you can`t lead them."

Hey, you don`t have to pray with someone to respect them.

And he mentioned people were like, "Do you believe in Jesus NOW?" That`s screwed up, and the exact same thing.

Using the same guidelines, they`re not respecting him because they DO pray. XD

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Male 2,422
I`m an atheist and my Christain buddies respect me enough to not make me move to a different table or make me pray with them when I eat at their house. I guess the Army just attracts more a$$holes and bigots.
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Female 2,228
Dainty, with all due respect I don`t want the radical born agains running my schoolboard, or city council, or my government for that matter.

This being only one of those reasons why I don`t.

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Female 15,763
From the video, it seems to me that it was the other soldiers that were mainly giving him poo, not the actual army itself.

*avoids the flame war*

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Male 2,605
"Because of the whole religious founding of this country, and whatever else, I don`t really care."

There was no religious founding of this country, ditz.

"Atheist in the army? Thats weird they are usually more intelligent then that. There are no atheist`s in foxholes because they don`t get into them in the first place."

Hear hear.

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Male 60
I love movie quotes. That one is definitely one of the greats.
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Male 626
So they are breaking alot of rules it seems...

1st Amendment
Army Regulations
6th Commandment

"Rule art made to be broken"

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Male 1,825
How about you just not fight in a stupid fuc*ing war?
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Female 4,376
why can`t people of all religions just learn to pretend to like each other?
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Female 471
religion is good idea that has been put to the wrong use
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Male 1,455
^And what are you referring to?
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Female 5,139
I dont hate it...but i think im starting to.
I dont want to hate it either...but its hard not to at times.
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Male 3,369
This video just shows everything thats wrong with religion. Primes attitude shows everything wrong with religion. this is why i hate religion..nothing more to say
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Male 3,301
Man, I could go for a hot dog right now. With mustard, and pickle. And a smallish bun with poppy seeds. Throw in some greasy fries and a frostee, and I`ll be in heaven!
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Male 44
US wants to be sure that they can control at least the army through religion.. the In god we trust is slowly changing to In god we force you to trust
watch Zeitgeist ppl!
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Male 1,455
Quite nice living in Sweden then where they estimated that around 80% are atheists.
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Female 5,139
bit harsh el, we arnt all a pile of crap :-(
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Male 1,399
"Patriotism has NOTHING to do with religion."

True, but some people require religion to deal with death. Theirs, their friends`, their enemies`.

I am not surprised that soldiers, especially the grunts in the trenches, are religious as a rule.

Like it or not, the majority of people are religious. It has been that way since we evolved into thinking beings. It is not going to change.

People trained to die are going to be more religious than your average joe. I don`t think this is difficult to figure out.

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Male 1,220
im not crap |-(
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Male 1,455
Oh I agree that everyone should lay off, I just know that it`s never going to happen because humans are a pile of crap swimming around in a ocean of crap.
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Female 2,228
Frankly, I`m not suprised. The military in this country has had a poor history protecting personnel`s religious freedom. They got their panties all in a bunch over a wiccan soldier`s request to have the pentacle carved on his tombstone.
This increasing radicalization of the army has to be watched...
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Female 5,139
Thats awful :-(
...so why dont you agree that everyone should just lay off everyone elses beliefs... if we did there would be no war, or would there... mind you it would just cause war on some other grounds probably.
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Female 5,139
"Honor? Pride? Dignity? Believing that what you believe is right and your enemy is wrong, and therefore he might be a threat to your society?"

and thats my point..i dont understand why we cant just understand each others religions, and leave each other alone.. if noone felt like their society was being threatened, then there wouldnt be a problem, would there..

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Male 1,455
Me? Born in Bosnia, had to move to Sweden because people were chopping other peoples heads of for their religious beliefs. Raised as a Muslim, worshipped Allah until the age of 15, that`s where I started to doubt that all that could be real. My mother despises my view on religion and my father doesn`t give a crap.
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Male 1,220
i like colors!
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Female 5,139
El, you seem to be disagreeing with everyone here just for the sake of it lol, instead of waiting for what people say and slagging it off, why dont you tell us your beliefs?
and..i will listen at least.
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Male 1,455
"and it sucks that people feel the need to die for their beliefs and their country, theres no logic in it,"

Honor? Pride? Dignity? Believing that what you believe is right and your enemy is wrong, and therefore he might be a threat to your society?

"i think everyone truly wants to get along, we just cant.."

Oh please...

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Female 5,139
lol im blabbering XD
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Male 1,455
"We`re not talking about a normal job; we`re talking about people trained to kill and die for their beliefs and their country."
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Patriotism has NOTHING to do with religion.

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Female 5,139
I guess im an atheist too, but i like to learn, and keep an open mind about other peoples beliefs. Id never believe in it, but id listen and i can understand.
and it sucks that people feel the need to die for their beliefs and their country, theres no logic in it, i think everyone truly wants to get along, we just cant.. its like its not even possible. :-(

Or maybe its just the minority of people who want everyone to believe in what they believe in, who are spoiling it for the majority, like everything else.

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Male 2,788
i`m gonna send that to all my friends
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Female 738
While America has on the books religious freedom, there is still the unwritten law in many longstanding institutions that there is no other choice except Christianity.

It`s ironic because a good number of our founding fathers were Deists, not Christians.

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Male 2,788
LMAO alice.! that made my day ;P
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Male 1,399
I`m an atheist.

I also realize that most other people aren`t.

We`re not talking about a normal job; we`re talking about people trained to kill and die for their beliefs and their country.

I`m going to give believers a bit more respect in that case.

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Male 1,455
"This is NOT "one nation under God", as our president seems to think."
-------------------------------------------

The quote was from his FATHER.

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Female 5,139
I think its nice when people have something to believe in, i just wish it didnt cause so much hate, and so many arguments.
Its not fair, humans just drat themselves over, we could have everything...and live in peace, but instead we choose to live in denial and because we cant agree to disagree, we hate each other.

Well i dont, i just mean humans as one lol

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Male 953
OK, so why is it everyone believes in GOD, but if you believe in Bigfoot or Aliens your crazy.

Now you tell me which one is the bigger HOAX?

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Female 1,397
Atheist in the army? Thats weird they are usually more intelligent then that. There are no atheist`s in foxholes because they don`t get into them in the first place.
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Male 426
jeez, people these days...

maybe racism will no longer be an issue...

religionism? hahah

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Female 385
^^ Realists bring men home again.
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Female 385
Stuff like this pisses me off.

This is NOT "one nation under God", as our president seems to think. The pledge, as originally written in 1892, read "I pledge allegiance to my Flag and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all." It wasn`t until 1954, nearly 60 years later, that "under God" was shoehorned in there after a movement by religious organizations putting pressure on the government.

This country was founded by a great mix of people, atheist and theist alike. People who saw what happens when religion runs a country. It doesn`t work. It never has, and never will. Religious freedom also means freedom FROM religion.

Faith does not make you a better person, somehow more fit than those of us without it--if it did, prison populations in the US wouldn`t be predominately Christian. Just because a man doesn`t believe in a magic glowing sky-daddy does not mean he is unfit to lead troops into battle. R

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Male 382
personal beliefs are just that, personal.
It`s a private matter and shouldn`t be dictated by anybody.
Believe as you wish, it`s your right.
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Male 1,455
^Go eat a dick.
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Male 1,265
Christianity only has the 1 in a million chance of a bullet bouncing off your cross. Should be muslim, 5 times a day you have a chance of kneeling down and dodging a bullet to your head!
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Male 334
As much as i love this country, i do have to admit, the first amendment right is completely blown to crap a lot of the times. sure its freedom of religion..granted that religion is Christianity. if your not christian your in for some oppressing times.
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Male 184
Dilldog123:
I am working on me Eagle too. My eagle project is this Thursday and Saturday! Wanna come? Just kidding.
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Female 5,139
though i dare not post the other picture i had in mind, i do have this one..
which is funny XD


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Female 471
I hate the blatant corruption that is the lack of separation of church and state. It is so very infuriating how people turn a blind eye to things like this, but then go running to the constitution whenever it is convenient for them. You can’t be selective about constitutional rights, it is all or nothing. I hope this soldier gets justice, god bless him. (jk, bc hes atheist) *ba dum cha* but seriously, I hate our gov`t sometimes.
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Male 1,455
Saturday, August 16, 2008 11:34:34 AM
He probably cursed out faith in front of his religious comrades. Like other people said, If someone has a different religion than me I wouldn`t care to join them in grace. It`s respect. This guy however, probably said some nasty things to get them pissed off at him.
--------------------------------------------

And where`s your evidence for that?

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Male 3,301
How heavy is a three pound bag?

How long is a ten foot pole?

What time does the three o`clock train arrive?

What color is brown?

Questions...

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Male 1,853
a fellow boy scout...what rank has YOUR mother forced you to obtain? im working on my eagle.
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Male 161
He probably cursed out faith in front of his religious comrades. Like other people said, If someone has a different religion than me I wouldn`t care to join them in grace. It`s respect. This guy however, probably said some nasty things to get them pissed off at him.
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Female 471
and wow, drjack, that is messed up about the boy scouts.
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Female 471
Oh silly religious shennigans.
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Male 251
that`s messed up. i`m on hall`s side
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Male 184
I am a Christian, but I wouldn`t take offense if someone doesn`t pray with me. I am in Boy Scouts and we have to do Grace before every meal. I know there are some Atheists and Non-Christians in our troop, but they still gather for Grace. On the subject of Boy Scouts...Did you know they ban Atheists/Agnostics/Gays? I think that is very harsh.
http://www.bsalegal.org/faqs-195.asp
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Male 1,455
"And what political(?) figure was it who said something along the lines of: "If you didn`t believe in god, then you aren`t a true American."..?"
-----------------------------------------

"I don`t know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God."

- George H. W. Bush

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Male 2,788
Male 437
its not entirely the armys fault, but they obviously have a share of the blame.

they didnt promote him because of his religion

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Male 2,788
there will be at least 5 pages of posts.
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Female 5,139
I have such a fitting demotivational poster for this...but its insanely sick, and i think its real, so i wont :-P
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Male 1,455
I`m not surprised since it comes from the country who puts "In God we trust" on their money.
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Male 53
Never been in the Army but meh.
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Male 7,933
zoinks, but its not the armies fault. If I were him i would try to switch base. Not sue the defense department
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Male 437
^^^^
what techgeek said. you shouldn`t have to share someone`s religion to have their respect
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Male 2,592
Prime,
I agree, but, you don`t have to pray with them to get their respect. Nobody I was stationed with would`ve taken anyone as less than what they`re worth themselves.
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Male 215
FLAME ON
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Male 7,933
"There are no Atheist in Fox Holes"

Great line.

Isnt the ACLU the one that wants to rename Los Angeles?

Anyway, it should be pretty obvious that he doesnt deserve promotion. If you dont have the respect of the people who are shooting right beside you, you can`t lead them.

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Male 1,766
to everyone ion this forum i disagree
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Male 2,592
I didn`t see anything like this when I was in the military. It sounds like they`re taking an extreme case and blowing it out of proportion
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Female 5,139
Let the religious flamewar COMMENCE
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Male 2,440
Link: Atheist Discrimination In Army [Rate Link] - Seems like there`s quite a few Evangelical Christians with a not so hidden agenda. Warning: Flame War Inevitable
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