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They tell us to open our minds and embrace their religion? I will NOT (including this site) listen to anyone who hasn`t at least tried more than one religion. The reason being they have nothing to compare their religion to, and the fact they have such a blind faith (most likely induced by parents, a fear of death, or someone dying i.e. a hope to see them again) and thus makes any attempts at debate with them like talking to a brick wall.
By all means, I know and like many people who follow their own religious beliefs - as a way to better themselves, because they like to think there`s life after death or simply because they enjoy it - and thats great! :)
It`s when people force it upon others, or make them uncomfortable to do so, that makes me DESPISE them as people. I`ve studied the U.S.A. and its religion at University in the UK, and am amazed at the cult-like (think of the Masons) tendencies it`s showing. And hardly anyone even sees it. (expecting rants now)
Gotta love M*A*S*H*. xD
WTF do we need meetings for? Worship of the fact we don`t need to worship?
Let the kool-aid drinkers have their churches; forming an Atheist Club was just pouring gas on the fire.
The whole point of religious freedom is that you can believe what you like without having to conform to any other religion.
Army is about killing things and destroying property. People who kill other people tend to have strict codes they adhere to; stricter than the general public.
Again, I`m an atheist (you seem to have missed that above) so I do not take religion seriously. I would bow my head for the same reason I would get a unit tattoo or say "oorah" or do any other silly thing that is traditional.
I`m an atheist, and I can wrap my head around this concept: unit before individual.
You probably wouldn`t, so why are you asking others to simulute yours?
Army is about mutual respect, mutual support and collective objective achievement. You can do that wihtout any sort of belief.
Because you don`t believe in God you don`t deserve your army mates respect and support?
C`mon, everybody can make that link -and it`s pretty obvious.
Seriously. Bowing your head is going to make you believe in some god?
Bowing your head for a couple of minutes, to get along and keep the peace, is going to destroy your atheism?
Atheism, to me, means I DO NOT get offended at the small stuff like that. Let the religious people freak out. Not me.
Because that`s what we`re talking about here. This kid (an ex-Baptist, for crying out loud) wouldn`t BOW HIS FRIGGIN` HEAD while others prayed.
This makes atheists look as bad as the born-agains. You have to go along to get along, ESPECIALLY in the military.
So why is religion off limits? I can criticize your politics, your taste in movies or music, your scientific theories, your conspiracy theories, but for some reason I have to show respect for your superstitions? That`s not the way it should be.
I dislike outspoken atheists just as much as I dislike outspoken people of religion.
If the majority of your unit is religious, you need to respect that. A couple minutes of bowing your head isn`t going to hurt you.
I`m an atheist, yet I wouldn`t want to damage unit morale by being an as.shole about it.
i hate the army... and religion...
Also, pictures mean nothing. They are a good contrast, Patthebaker, but it really doesn`t mean anything when the U.S. Army is notorious (like almost every other country) for its media propoganda. Even if it wasn`t staged (I`m inclined to say this is genuine), you do the usual biased thing and ignore the images of americans torturing and burning civilians.
I`m not being biased here - I`m NOT saying "oh every american soldier is a crazed blood-fuelled masochist because I saw it on Fahrenheit 911" but I despise the blind statements people make like Patthebakers because it`s such a childish train of thought.
I get approached by self-acclaimed "proper" Christian folk who campaign on the streets regularly, and it`s like talking to a brick wall. They never expect me to argue their points and when I make a good point, they simply ignore me and change the topic. I`ve always found -really- religious people to be fascinating as they have the most closed minds on the
The U.S. army has serious issues, and that`s an understatement. Yes, we can beg the question "where does the line get drawn" when it comes to religious issues, but then again a TRUE christian would NEVER, if given the option, sign up to kill people in Iraq. Fair enough if it`s conscription or defending your own country, but going out to invade another country? You can`t even argue with that (and don`t get me started on the motives for attacking the country).
Having to pray before meals? Wow, at least these poorly-practising christians can redeem themselves somewhat, but DRAGGING others along to it, forcing them to join in if they want to get promoted... people aren`t even given the choice of becoming sheep nowadays, they`re forced to.
How can you argue with the issue of -having- to commit a religious act so as to get fair treatment? Half the people here need to wake
WHAT??? What on earth does the US Army have ANYTHING in common with the Nazis??? US Army Saves. The Nazis killed.*thinks*Gee...hmm...nope, can`t find anything in common. Sorry.
You cant tell the difference?
as for the whole "christian nation" it is true that a majority of americans are christian, there are many branches of christianity, but still they are united on the idea of Jesus
But the country is set up to be secular, and the reason why the founding fathers did set it up, was because they went to America, enduring many hardships, fought a great war against a tyranical leader who wanted to control their thoughts, their land, their beliefs, and control of weapons. After they just finished fighting such a tyrant they set up the Bill of Rights, so everyone can speak what they want, defend themselves, and are protecting from spread search warrants (the right of search and seizure). And sadly that view is being lost in my opinion.
i caught sh_t once in a while from my peers and superiors, but nothing that ever made me feel like i was being punished or anything for it. but that pretty much just comes with being atheist, i guess.
Anyway, I don`t think USA can call itself a free country and limit religious boundaries.
And what political(?) figure was it who said something along the lines of: "If you didn`t believe in god, then you aren`t a true American."..?
I don`t remember who it was, or maybe I`m just making things up.Though it sure sounds like someone some nutjob would say."
Well America was founded on Protestant beliefs (actually extreme Protestantism, Calvinists and Quakers). America is basically a Christian country. Yes the constitution says freedom of religion but with all due respect I have a feeling the founding fathers were talking about Christianity as a whole and they were not thinking about other religions. Remember even though it says All men created equal, Slaves were most certainly not equal in America.
And you`ve got to admit, religion - unlike the others you list - usually hold human life in high regard. "Thou shall not kill", etc... So it seems especially hypocritical if nothing else.
Stays the same.
The ones I love are when the splinter groups start killing each other... Protestants versus Catholics, Sunnis versus Shiites, etc. They all believe in the same God, but just have some different views. So they kill each other. In the name of their God.
Gotta love religion!
The list goes on...
Indeed, not even the religionists. What I don`t understand is why respecting their beliefs must take precedence over them respecting my lack of belief. If I don`t want to say grace or bow my head and mumble to the sky, there should be no pressure from their part for me to do so. I`m perfectly capable of showing respect, I just choose not to when it means contradicting my own views.
You lose many rights such as protesting (even family members do), and strikes, etc.
Deist? They were still christian but christian deist
His case will likely be thrown out of court because of the very fact that he did not first attempt to use the remedies provided for by military regulations, instead choosing to do things his way.
Those things you mention, Dainty, were added in to the United States later, after it was already founded. "Under God" was added during the cold war to separate ourselves from the communists.
So the country was founded on religious freedom, but with a touch of spirituality.
He continues that he was discriminated against by being denied promotion because of his religious views.
First of all, in the military, you do not have the same constitutional rights as every other citizen. You only have the rights granted to you by law through regulation and policy. You can`t just say or do what you want when you want.
That being said, it sounds like the Major was out of line in his behavior. But this is where it gets complicated...
There are many ways to seek redress for an alleged violation of regulation or his individual rights. This includes filing an Equal Opportunity complaint, or approaching his chain of command, among others.
He chose not to do so. Instead he went to the MRFF, in clear violation of the very regulations that could have protected him. Here, he was very wrong.
No one has any respect these days.
Not in that case. In most cases sure but in war, if your not respected you cant lead. It was obvious that in that base prayer was very important. He should have switched bases
I`m not known for my kindness, so deal.
"In God We Trust" and "under God" were additions made to our currency and Pledge of Allegiance, respectively, in only recent history, meaning they have *nothing* to do with the foundations of this country. Want to not be called a ditz? Learn your f*cking history before you raise an argument.
As far as the Declaration of Independence goes, there are only two mentions of a god (God and Creator) and they`re both made in the context of where our rights come from. In no way do they pertain to any religious foundation. And so long as we`re on foundation documents, if you`d carefully read your Constitution, you`d notice the effort made to secure the United States as a secular nation, not a religious one.
"As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion..."
Treaty of Tripoli, 1796.
So being patriotic is now considered idiotic?
Hey, you don`t have to pray with someone to respect them.
And he mentioned people were like, "Do you believe in Jesus NOW?" That`s screwed up, and the exact same thing.
Using the same guidelines, they`re not respecting him because they DO pray. XD
This being only one of those reasons why I don`t.
*avoids the flame war*
There was no religious founding of this country, ditz.
"Atheist in the army? Thats weird they are usually more intelligent then that. There are no atheist`s in foxholes because they don`t get into them in the first place."
1st AmendmentArmy Regulations6th Commandment
"Rule art made to be broken"
True, but some people require religion to deal with death. Theirs, their friends`, their enemies`.
I am not surprised that soldiers, especially the grunts in the trenches, are religious as a rule.
Like it or not, the majority of people are religious. It has been that way since we evolved into thinking beings. It is not going to change.
People trained to die are going to be more religious than your average joe. I don`t think this is difficult to figure out.
and thats my point..i dont understand why we cant just understand each others religions, and leave each other alone.. if noone felt like their society was being threatened, then there wouldnt be a problem, would there..
Honor? Pride? Dignity? Believing that what you believe is right and your enemy is wrong, and therefore he might be a threat to your society?
"i think everyone truly wants to get along, we just cant.."
Patriotism has NOTHING to do with religion.
Or maybe its just the minority of people who want everyone to believe in what they believe in, who are spoiling it for the majority, like everything else.
It`s ironic because a good number of our founding fathers were Deists, not Christians.
I also realize that most other people aren`t.
We`re not talking about a normal job; we`re talking about people trained to kill and die for their beliefs and their country.
I`m going to give believers a bit more respect in that case.
The quote was from his FATHER.
Well i dont, i just mean humans as one lol
Now you tell me which one is the bigger HOAX?
maybe racism will no longer be an issue...
This is NOT "one nation under God", as our president seems to think. The pledge, as originally written in 1892, read "I pledge allegiance to my Flag and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all." It wasn`t until 1954, nearly 60 years later, that "under God" was shoehorned in there after a movement by religious organizations putting pressure on the government.
This country was founded by a great mix of people, atheist and theist alike. People who saw what happens when religion runs a country. It doesn`t work. It never has, and never will. Religious freedom also means freedom FROM religion.
Faith does not make you a better person, somehow more fit than those of us without it--if it did, prison populations in the US wouldn`t be predominately Christian. Just because a man doesn`t believe in a magic glowing sky-daddy does not mean he is unfit to lead troops into battle. R
And where`s your evidence for that?
How long is a ten foot pole?
What time does the three o`clock train arrive?
What color is brown?
"I don`t know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God."
- George H. W. Bush
they didnt promote him because of his religion
Isnt the ACLU the one that wants to rename Los Angeles?
Anyway, it should be pretty obvious that he doesnt deserve promotion. If you dont have the respect of the people who are shooting right beside you, you can`t lead them.