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Date: 07/28/08 06:32 PM

81 Responses to The Incredible Hypocracy of Ted Haggar

  1. Profile photo of Pravda7
    Pravda7 Female 18-29
    290 posts
    July 28, 2008 at 5:05 pm
    Link: The Incredible Hypocracy of Ted Haggar - The evangelical leader, his male prostitute and Meth. A pretty interesting look at the rise and fall of Teddy.
  2. Profile photo of joofro
    joofro Male 18-29
    548 posts
    July 28, 2008 at 6:39 pm
    ^/agree
  3. Profile photo of meowmix777
    meowmix777 Male 18-29
    55 posts
    July 28, 2008 at 6:39 pm
    Man I swear like 50% of religious preachers or advocates use religion as a scam for business purposes. People like Ted Haggar give religion a bad name!
  4. Profile photo of Godzillasaur
    Godzillasaur Male 13-17
    40 posts
    July 28, 2008 at 6:40 pm
    Here come the flame wars
  5. Profile photo of opiebreath
    opiebreath Female 18-29
    15782 posts
    July 28, 2008 at 6:40 pm
    Me thinketh thou doth protest too much.


    Or something along those lines.

  6. Profile photo of primetimekin
    primetimekin Male 18-29
    7936 posts
    July 28, 2008 at 6:49 pm
    wow, 2 people I wouldn`t mind shooting in the back alley (although with Haggar I`d be conscious of that back alley).

    And evangelicals are anti-gay. They are just not for it. Stewart confused them with Westboro Baptist.

  7. Profile photo of primetimekin
    primetimekin Male 18-29
    7936 posts
    July 28, 2008 at 6:50 pm
    "Man I swear like 50% of religious preachers or advocates use religion as a scam for business purposes. People like Ted Haggar give religion a bad name!"

    I have to agree with you. Just look at the new religious movie, Batman. Grown adult running around in his underwear with a little boy. What is he Catholic????.... Too far..

    With that said, Fancy, I want a Catholic Category added to the religion thingy in the profile

  8. Profile photo of WHOISIT12345
    WHOISIT12345 Male 18-29
    4397 posts
    July 28, 2008 at 6:54 pm
    lolz you can not run from gay....
  9. Profile photo of WHOISIT12345
    WHOISIT12345 Male 18-29
    4397 posts
    July 28, 2008 at 6:54 pm
    and too long...
  10. Profile photo of gtstanton
    gtstanton Male 18-29
    27 posts
    July 28, 2008 at 6:57 pm

    "And evangelicals are anti-gay. They are just not for it. Stewart confused them with Westboro Baptist."

    Correct. Correct. Wrong.

    Anyway, I love the irony.

  11. Profile photo of gandhi172
    gandhi172 Male 18-29
    2029 posts
    July 28, 2008 at 7:00 pm
    I believe in an unknown, omnipresent, everlasting cosmic energy force. At least, for now...
  12. Profile photo of gandhi172
    gandhi172 Male 18-29
    2029 posts
    July 28, 2008 at 7:01 pm
    And...Ted Haggar can be creepy sometimes...
  13. Profile photo of boredfjord
    boredfjord Male 13-17
    928 posts
    July 28, 2008 at 7:04 pm
    Ted Haggard is such a goon. I love it when some religious leader does something like this and I get to watch his former followers squirm uncomfortably because they had previously treated him or her like a living saint.
  14. Profile photo of gandhi172
    gandhi172 Male 18-29
    2029 posts
    July 28, 2008 at 7:12 pm
    *Haggard
  15. Profile photo of theRam
    theRam Male 13-17
    166 posts
    July 28, 2008 at 7:28 pm
    cannot....resist......it`s spelled "hypocrisy"
  16. Profile photo of Overmann
    Overmann Male 18-29
    2600 posts
    July 28, 2008 at 7:37 pm
    "Man I swear like 50% of religious preachers or advocates use religion as a scam for business purposes."

    That percentage, I`d wager, has been historically greater. Religion has always been a political tool, though, whether it be used to control the populace with fear or extract money from them. Times are getting better, though not as expediently as I`d prefer.

    Ted Haggard`s downfall demonstrates rather perfectly the two-faced nature of preachers. No one is able to live up to the ideals held by Christianity because they`re far too great and too convoluted, besides. Rather than pretend we`re something we`re not, why not reconcile our ideals with our true nature, be honest with ourselves, and go from there? Wouldn`t that be just a little bit more progressive?

  17. Profile photo of gandhi172
    gandhi172 Male 18-29
    2029 posts
    July 28, 2008 at 7:38 pm
    Yay, I`m right there with you theRam, I feel the same way about a great many things...I just get too scared of peoples` reactions to say anything...lol yes we are grammar nazis. SO?
  18. Profile photo of gandhi172
    gandhi172 Male 18-29
    2029 posts
    July 28, 2008 at 7:39 pm
    Overmann FTW...
  19. Profile photo of primetimekin
    primetimekin Male 18-29
    7936 posts
    July 28, 2008 at 7:42 pm
    Ted Haggard`s downfall demonstrates rather perfectly the two-faced nature of preachers. No one is able to live up to the ideals held by Christianity because they`re far too great and too convoluted,
    ======================================

    I haven`t taken meth or had butt sex with a male prostitute. Im not doing to bad.

  20. Profile photo of jakeman203
    jakeman203 Male 18-29
    80 posts
    July 28, 2008 at 7:44 pm
    The great thing about Christianity is that we recognize our faults and realize that we are not perfect. And God understands that and that is why there is Jesus Christ. Honestly, people make and simple thing so difficult....
  21. Profile photo of primetimekin
    primetimekin Male 18-29
    7936 posts
    July 28, 2008 at 7:46 pm
    too*
  22. Profile photo of Overmann
    Overmann Male 18-29
    2600 posts
    July 28, 2008 at 7:54 pm
    "I haven`t taken meth or had butt sex with a male prostitute. Im not doing to bad."

    No, but do you suppose God approves of your self-professed cheating on exams? Wouldn`t that count as bearing false witness? The issue can be however small or however great. But don`t worry; no matter the contradiction, your Get-Out-of-Hell-Free Jesus card will always work. Which is another way of saying, I`d like to point out, that, according to Christianity, we have no moral obligations whatsoever so long as we do not forsake the Holy Ghost. Pretty neat deal, huh?

    "The great thing about Christianity is that we recognize our faults and realize that we are not perfect."

    Then why the shock when someone such as Haggard turns out to be the scum insightful people always knew one to be?

  23. Profile photo of primetimekin
    primetimekin Male 18-29
    7936 posts
    July 28, 2008 at 7:58 pm
    The Get-Out-of-Hell-Free card has some restraints. Part of it is regret, if there is no regret than you cannot pass go, you cannot collect 200.
  24. Profile photo of Overmann
    Overmann Male 18-29
    2600 posts
    July 28, 2008 at 8:03 pm
    "Part of it is regret, if there is no regret than you cannot pass go, you cannot collect 200."

    Where is this written? Provide me with book and verse. The only criterion I am aware of for getting into heaven, crimes on earth notwithstanding, is accepting Christ as one`s Lord and Savior, whatever that means. In no part of the word "accept" is it implied that one must feel remorse for actions they`ve committed, especially ones that are otherwise completely natural, i.e. homosexual relations.

  25. Profile photo of patthebaker
    patthebaker Male 18-29
    1768 posts
    July 28, 2008 at 8:06 pm
    I think John Stewart is a muffin.
  26. Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12151 posts
    July 28, 2008 at 8:09 pm
    Goddam, why as a society do we always have to treat religion with kid gloves, instead of calling it out for the bullwank that it is?

    There are man-f*cking, altar-boy molesting, paedophiles out there, and more often than not they`re evangelical Christians. Then I hear the "Mainstream" Christians (what does that mean? These guys are reading the same abhorrhent book) who bleat "but this doesn`t represent the true spirit of my religion".

    Big pair of tits.

    Same as "moderate" Muslims condemning 9-11. You muppets are (i`ll accede, unwittingly) giving cover for these c*nts to operate under.

    There were bombs in India yesterday which killed 50 people and maimed hundreds. The bombs were attributed to Muslim Indians clashing with Hindu Indians.

    What if there were no religion? How the f*ck would we know who the enemy was?

    In the words of John Lennon, blah blah blah...

  27. Profile photo of primetimekin
    primetimekin Male 18-29
    7936 posts
    July 28, 2008 at 8:13 pm
    1 Cor 3:11-15
    for no one can lay a foundation other than the one that is there.... (skip a few lines to the important part)
    But if smoeone`s work is burned up, that one will suffer loss; the person will be saved, but only as through fire.


    See, regardless of the card you still are punished.

    And the Catechism of the catholic Church states

    All who die in God`s grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation but after death they undergo purification.

  28. Profile photo of primetimekin
    primetimekin Male 18-29
    7936 posts
    July 28, 2008 at 8:14 pm
    "There are man-f*cking, altar-boy molesting, paedophiles out there, and more often than not they`re evangelical Christians. Then I hear the "Mainstream" Christians (what does that mean? These guys are reading the same abhorrhent book) who bleat "but this doesn`t represent the true spirit of my religion"."

    The minority are actually priest. Most are involved in other professions. Awhile ago Balthazaaq gave a ratio I think it was 3:723 or something like that.

  29. Profile photo of White_Wolfos
    White_Wolfos Female 18-29
    1145 posts
    July 28, 2008 at 8:19 pm
    "I think John Stewart is a muffin."

    What kind of muffin? o.o

  30. Profile photo of TheBLB
    TheBLB Male 18-29
    239 posts
    July 28, 2008 at 8:23 pm
    I came back to the same old, I suppose. Thought maybe IAB had found some peace. False.

    Anyhow, you can`t argue on two different levels... one person can`t shoot from the gut and one person can`t show the other charts. I`m not even saying which is which, but PTK, at a point I think it`s pointless, and a waste of our precious internets. Because as we all know, the internet is a series of tubes.

  31. Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12151 posts
    July 28, 2008 at 8:27 pm
    ^^ "But if smoeone`s work is burned up, that one will suffer loss; the person will be saved, but only as through fire."

    Sorry prime, was that a biblical prophesy, or a spot of pseudo-bollocks from that French twat Nostradamus? I`m finding it hard to tell the difference these days.

  32. Profile photo of Overmann
    Overmann Male 18-29
    2600 posts
    July 28, 2008 at 8:29 pm
    "1 Cor 3:11-15"

    Ambiguous. I can read that line over and over again and still not derive from it that I must regret so-called immoral actions in order to get into heaven.

    "Catechism of the catholic Church"

    Which was published in 1992. Yeah, I give that even less credibility than the gospels. But supposing it were true, for the sake of argument, what the f*ck does "imperfectly purified" mean? Is it up to the reader`s interpretation to understand this means one must feel remorse for having had sex with a same-gendered partner in order to get into heaven? Looking at the second part:

    "are indeed assured of their eternal salvation but after death they undergo purification."

    Doesn`t that mean I would undergo purification *after* death, meaning I need not feel any remorse while living so long as I "die in God`s grace and friendship"? Maybe you should find me a statement addressing what happens when one *doesn`t* die in God`s gr

  33. Profile photo of Overmann
    Overmann Male 18-29
    2600 posts
    July 28, 2008 at 8:29 pm
    Grr, God`s grace.
  34. Profile photo of jakesteele
    jakesteele Male 30-39
    57 posts
    July 28, 2008 at 8:38 pm
    Religion is stone age superstition. Your god is no more real than Zeus, Apollo, Poseidon, or island volcano gods that demand virgin sacrafices. How can you not see that?
  35. Profile photo of starryjenny
    starryjenny Female 13-17
    59 posts
    July 28, 2008 at 8:39 pm
    This happens all the freaking time and it pisses me off. I get these urges to gather as many items with deadly potential that I possibly can. Maybe that means I need help?

    Oh wait, no it doesn`t. It means I really don`t like "holy men" who do poopy things.

  36. Profile photo of primetimekin
    primetimekin Male 18-29
    7936 posts
    July 28, 2008 at 8:39 pm
    davymid, makes much more sense if you look at all the parts in between but im too lazy to write that much.

    Overmann, I researched too much and should have given the obvious answer. Penitence by definition repenting sins or wrong doing. The above was about purgatory.

    " I`m not even saying which is which, but PTK, at a point I think it`s pointless, and a waste of our precious internets. Because as we all know, the internet is a series of tubes."

    But I like Overmann, and Davymid.... *gives virtual hug but not too closely because I might catch the atheism*

  37. Profile photo of starryjenny
    starryjenny Female 13-17
    59 posts
    July 28, 2008 at 8:42 pm
    "Your god is no more real than Zeus, Apollo, Poseidon, or island volcano gods that demand virgin sacrafices. How can you not see that?"

    It`s spelled `sacrifices`.

    Also, my god doesn`t spend his time duking it out with other gods and also turning into a swan and raping people.

  38. Profile photo of B-Hazard
    B-Hazard Male 18-29
    2960 posts
    July 28, 2008 at 8:42 pm
    -There are man-f*cking, altar-boy molesting, paedophiles out there, and more often than not they`re evangelical Christians.-

    lmao, that`s just not true at all.

  39. Profile photo of kenny_f
    kenny_f Male 13-17
    1825 posts
    July 28, 2008 at 8:53 pm
    and people say i`m strange.
  40. Profile photo of Overmann
    Overmann Male 18-29
    2600 posts
    July 28, 2008 at 8:56 pm
    "Penitence by definition repenting sins or wrong doing."

    Okay, good job... so why don`t you give me a statement establishing penitence as a prerequisite for getting into heaven?

  41. Profile photo of primetimekin
    primetimekin Male 18-29
    7936 posts
    July 28, 2008 at 9:00 pm
    rev 21: 27
    but nothing unclean will enter it....

    So to get clean, you must cleanse yourself of sins. the way to cleanse is penitence. That or never commit a single sin in your life... good luck with that one.

  42. Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12151 posts
    July 28, 2008 at 9:01 pm
    ^^ "Also, my god doesn`t spend his time duking it out with other gods and also turning into a swan and raping people."

    OH Snap! Jenny. You wanna dance? (Your) God is a jealous, genocidal mysogynistic C*nt who makes a living duking it out with other gods.

    Actually, that`s not true, he normally tortures/murders humans for daring to cavort with the other gods.

    If God exists, he is a C*nt, and as far as I`m concerned, he can f*ck off.

    The rest will have to wait till the morrow as I`m off to bed though..

    p.s. once upon a time I was hard-core, mouth-breathing, christian-youth-festival, praying childbait. True.

  43. Profile photo of splurbyburbl
    splurbyburbl Male 30-39
    2798 posts
    July 28, 2008 at 9:01 pm
    I remember when I was a devout Christian before my mind started working for itself. It was a time when I felt completely comfortable that something up there had a plan for me and whatever went right or wrong in my life was all part of a "plan". Religion is a hell of a drug and a nefarious business. Whether science is right or wrong does not really matter. When you give yourself to religion... religion takes your mind and your soul and aleviates your responsibility to yourself. It`s sad really. Assuming Jesus really was the son of God, I am pretty sure in all of my studies I never once heard him instruct his desciples to create huge congregations to brainwash people. Religion truly is for the weak in the mind and spirit.
  44. Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12151 posts
    July 28, 2008 at 9:04 pm
    ^^prime, I guess I caught a dose of the Atheism.

    Happened about the same time I left the famliy fold and went to university.

  45. Profile photo of harrydick
    harrydick Male 18-29
    332 posts
    July 28, 2008 at 9:32 pm
    "That or never commit a single sin in your life... good luck with that one."

    I`ll bet anything there is at least one person crazy enough to do that. Actually, theres probably more than just one.

  46. Profile photo of dss6290
    dss6290 Male 18-29
    108 posts
    July 28, 2008 at 9:33 pm
    its sad what religion has turned into
  47. Profile photo of Overmann
    Overmann Male 18-29
    2600 posts
    July 28, 2008 at 9:45 pm
    "rev 21: 27
    but nothing unclean will enter it...."

    You`re stalling. Now present me a verse where it defines unclean as being without remorse for past actions.

    "So to get clean, you must cleanse yourself of sins. the way to cleanse is penitence. That or never commit a single sin in your life... good luck with that one."

    Yes, that is *your* interpretation. Where in the Bible, the official source and supposedly the only text I need for instructions on securing my passage into Heaven, might I find what it means to be unclean and how I might make myself clean? The bible verse you cited doesn`t provide any instructions, just an ultimatum. Going back to your interpretation, from which verses are you deriving that notion? Or is that something you accept simply because your preacher and\or parents and\or culture told you it was gospel?

  48. Profile photo of Overmann
    Overmann Male 18-29
    2600 posts
    July 28, 2008 at 9:57 pm
    "its sad what religion has turned into"

    It was pretty pathetic when it started, too. Early people actually believed that the realm of God extended no further than the clouds in the sky. That`s why people point upwards or hold their arms upwards when referring to\worshipping God. (Think about it. In the context of the whole entire friggin` universe, is the upward direction from our perspective any more significant than the downward?) It`s also why angels are thought to be people who have wings, because early man observed birds could fly with the help of wings and that therefore anyone living in the clouds must also have wings similar to a bird`s. Finally, it`s also why some people associate natural catastrophes with God`s punishment because lightning, tornados, torrential rains and hurricanes originate from the atmosphere (or clouds, as their perspective would have been).

    We have better explanations now.

  49. Profile photo of primetimekin
    primetimekin Male 18-29
    7936 posts
    July 28, 2008 at 10:31 pm
    Overmann, the Bible was written to work throughout time. The Bible is in Parables, its all about interpretation.

    The verse is revelation chapter 21: 27

  50. Profile photo of Overmann
    Overmann Male 18-29
    2600 posts
    July 28, 2008 at 10:42 pm
    "...the Bible was written to work throughout time. The Bible is in Parables, its all about interpretation."

    Which is another way of saying, among other things, that the criteria for entering heaven are socially determined, which suggests God doesn`t frankly care how people get into heaven, which implies I have about as much chance of getting into heaven by robbing and killing and raping as someone who doesn`t do these things. But see, no one believes that and therefore that behavior is not included in our interpreted criteria for getting into heaven, and the reason why is because there is an inherent tendency to want to do good (or better phrased, a tendency to not want to do bad) within all of us. People are good for a reason, but it`s not exactly a cognitively decided reason so much as it is a genetic disposition.

  51. Profile photo of Overmann
    Overmann Male 18-29
    2600 posts
    July 28, 2008 at 10:48 pm
    Wait wait, I`m not done yet, here`s another insight for the night.

    If God is really as disapproving of homosexuality as people claim him to be, why did God care enough about the animals (which have been observed to regularly delve into homosexual relations) to instruct Noah to save each and every one of them during the Flood? Maybe what the animals are doing isn`t sinful after all, seeing how they caused God to intercede on their behalf?

  52. Profile photo of lightingbug
    lightingbug Male 30-39
    182 posts
    July 28, 2008 at 10:54 pm
    Um, if I may - the Bible does not actually demand penitence. It`s unnecessary. If one is truly "made new" by his belief in Jesus Christ, then his past, present AND future sins are forgiven. It`s not carte blanche to to whatever you want from that point on - cause the point is - if you actually HAVE this change in your heart, you DON`T WANT TO. That`s the key. Anyway, thought I`d throw in my two cents. Hack away.
  53. Profile photo of primetimekin
    primetimekin Male 18-29
    7936 posts
    July 28, 2008 at 10:59 pm
    lightingbulb, thats because your protestant christian. As a catholic its faith+ good works.


    And nice job completely changing what I said.

    As most english classes will tell you, parables are morals through a story. The bible was written in parables so people can allude to them at any time in history and it would fit.

    And humans do not have the same moral standards as animals. We have domain over all of them. Different rules apply

  54. Profile photo of lightingbug
    lightingbug Male 30-39
    182 posts
    July 28, 2008 at 11:03 pm
    I had no intention of changing what you said, prime, I was just making my own independent point, responding to Overmann`s request for Biblical(not protestant) perspective on penitence. I am a protestant, yes, and I do believe that good works = salvation is a ridiculous idea. It`s like dixie cups of water on a raging inferno. Is there really anything ANY of us can do that would please God enough to overlook all the rampant sin in our lives? C`mon. Even Catholics believe God is HOLY. This means he abhors sin, even the slightest bit. No amount of brownie points cancels that out, my friend. And it`s "lightingbug", thank you.
  55. Profile photo of primetimekin
    primetimekin Male 18-29
    7936 posts
    July 28, 2008 at 11:06 pm
    I know I was just trying to show that there is a difference. And my apologies, lightningBUG
  56. Profile photo of lightingbug
    lightingbug Male 30-39
    182 posts
    July 28, 2008 at 11:09 pm
    Prime, no hard feelings, man. I "agreed to disagree" with my Catholic friends a long time ago, and share more beliefs with them than I oppose. So, it`s all good.
  57. Profile photo of goodbye777
    goodbye777 Male 13-17
    64 posts
    July 28, 2008 at 11:30 pm
    I found the beginning of the video (the whole stats and the church on every corner thing) seemed a little hostile. I found the interviewer as a whole a bit hostile. Then the whole "hotline to Bush thing", while I don`t find Bush to be the smartest person religiously the whole conference call thing could be compared to that of the relationships between Billy Graham and presidents throughout history.
  58. Profile photo of Pooptart19
    Pooptart19 Male 18-29
    2442 posts
    July 28, 2008 at 11:41 pm
    This video is nothing new. The world is filled with bigotrous, anti-science, religious idiots. What else is new?
  59. Profile photo of KMeTG
    KMeTG Male 18-29
    1265 posts
    July 28, 2008 at 11:47 pm
    Just wanna throw something out here:

    Correct me if I`m wrong, but didn`t Jesus say Christians shouldn`t pray in public, in congregations like churches, but should instead make prayer a private affair to be conducted alone?

    If so, that basically means that every church ever is going against the word of Jesus.

  60. Profile photo of primetimekin
    primetimekin Male 18-29
    7936 posts
    July 29, 2008 at 12:09 am
    "Correct me if I`m wrong, but didn`t Jesus say Christians shouldn`t pray in public, in congregations like churches, but should instead make prayer a private affair to be conducted alone?"

    Yes he did say that. But do you know what it means? It means dont pray to show off that you pray but rather pray for the sake of praying

  61. Profile photo of D_Fishbait
    D_Fishbait Male 18-29
    136 posts
    July 29, 2008 at 1:34 am
    I lived in Colorado Springs. I`ve seen all the places they showed in the video. I went to New Life before I started rethinking my beliefs, and I`ve actually known Ted all my life. My family and his family were very close. He dedicated me. He helped me any time I needed. He`s a good man. He just got caught up in some bad stuff. Now, my guess would be that he just went through what we all went through at some point or another... A sudden realization that what you believe may not be right... But by that point he was already the head of a megachurch AND the head of the national ascociation of evangelicals, so he couldn`t exactly just up and say "I`ve got to rethink some things" and take off. So he got in over his head with all this. If you don`t agree with his polotics, fine. If you don`t agree with what he did, fine. If you don`t agree with his religious beliefs, fine. I don`t agree with him on most of that stuff. But please don`t attack him personally. He really is a good guy.
  62. Profile photo of TR-Wolf
    TR-Wolf Male 18-29
    1557 posts
    July 29, 2008 at 1:47 am
    I`m gay and I sure as hell dont work out. I must`ve missed that memo, lol.
  63. Profile photo of TR-Wolf
    TR-Wolf Male 18-29
    1557 posts
    July 29, 2008 at 1:49 am
    Also, I`d like to share my 2 favourite bible quotes:

    Numbers 22:21
    "Balaam was aroused in the morning, he made his ass ready* and went with the two young Moab men"

    *some versions say "and ready to straddle the beast, he went with the young princes"

    Ezekiel 23:19-20

    "She lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose issue* was like that of horses."

    *ejaculation

    And just because that last verse is so awesome, the LOLCat Bible version:

    "She liekd teh guys with teh big dixxxes... teh RLY big uns, like donkeys LOL... and massiv cumbuckits like horse!"

  64. Profile photo of hrlhrl2000
    hrlhrl2000 Male 30-39
    136 posts
    July 29, 2008 at 4:36 am
    Christians are douchebags.
  65. Profile photo of joshd963
    joshd963 Male 13-17
    7 posts
    July 29, 2008 at 5:35 am
    hrlhrl2000, for ones like that guy, touche :)
  66. Profile photo of John_Mclane
    John_Mclane Male 18-29
    31 posts
    July 29, 2008 at 5:39 am
    *yank hating mode on* little under half off the country believes the universe isn`t older than 10000 years? f ucking retards!! I don`t mind if you think being gay isn`t right (on a personal note; being gay is just alright with me). And if you don`t bother gay people (love thy neighbor, turn the other (ass)cheek.) about it.

    But don`t go denouncing scientific fact!!!
    we have people like this were I come from. they are a very small minority and are considered people to be pitied. and they shouldn`t have any influence on the policies of the worlds only superpower.

    *yank hating mode off*

    *yank hating mode off*

  67. Profile photo of goodbye777
    goodbye777 Male 13-17
    64 posts
    July 29, 2008 at 8:20 am
    I found the beginning of the video (the whole stats and the church on every corner thing) seemed a little hostile. I found the interviewer as a whole a bit hostile. Then the whole "hotline to Bush thing", while I don`t find Bush to be the smartest person religiously the whole conference call thing could be compared to that of the relationships between Billy Graham and presidents throughout history.
  68. Profile photo of WolfStar
    WolfStar Female 18-29
    455 posts
    July 29, 2008 at 8:50 am
    Dawkins is my hero. He`s a bit of a dick sometimes, granted, but at least he`s logical, educated and rational. Haggard is an ignoramus who needs to start thinking for himself. Pretty much like all religious people. I wish people would just THINK. A 10,000 year old world? Really? C`mon.
  69. Profile photo of phroedoux
    phroedoux Male 18-29
    364 posts
    July 29, 2008 at 9:28 am
    I don`t agree with Ted Haggard on many, many points. He`s a hypocrite, end ignores proven scientific fact that doesn`t comply with the Bible.

    But Richard Dawkins is one of the biggest azzholes in the developed world. He`s taken it upon himself to go to war with those who choose to believe in God. No belief is good enough to him, unless its absolute atheism. Go pick up `The God Delusion` if you don`t believe me.

    Haggard may be a bad example of Evangelical faith, but Dawkins is the worst example of a scientist.

    Don`t think its limited to Dawkins either. As many bad apples as we`ve heard of from the Christian side of the argument, there are as many in the scientific realm.

    Science should be able to accept that there is room for something like God in this world, and accept that Christians aren`t going to shut up any time soon.

  70. Profile photo of lololeela
    lololeela Female 30-39
    327 posts
    July 29, 2008 at 10:26 am
    But science can NOT have any room in it for God because it is an untestable hypothesis and impossible to disprove. This goes against everything that science is! If a hypothesis is proposed, we have to be able to say that A, B and C will disprove it. You can`t do that with a god because his attributes are always changing depending on who you ask. This does not mean that science is anti-god, it just means that it has nothing to say about it.
  71. Profile photo of Overmann
    Overmann Male 18-29
    2600 posts
    July 29, 2008 at 11:08 am
    "Go pick up `The God Delusion` if you don`t believe me."

    The reason why The God Delusion seems arrogant is because of Dawkins` handling of the subject material. It is not culturally acceptable to criticize religion as openly as does Dawkins, and a measure of culture shock is almost guaranteed by reading his book.

    "Science should be able to accept that there is room for something like God in this world..."

    Science doesn`t seek to repudiate God completely, as this isn`t possible. Rather, what science can do is address the likelihood of God, which some argue is a very very small likelihood, indeed.

  72. Profile photo of Overmann
    Overmann Male 18-29
    2600 posts
    July 29, 2008 at 11:10 am
    By the way, Dawkins is not an absolute atheist. Looking on page 51 of The God Delusion, Dawkins provides a scale from 1-7 where 1 represents strong theism and 7 represents strong atheism. Dawkins considers himself a 6 leading towards 7, where 6 is:

    "Very low probability, but short of zero... "I cannot know for certain but I think God is very improbable and I live my life on the assumption that he is not there."

    And 7 is:

    Strong atheist. "I know there is no God, with the same conviction as Jung `knows` there is one."

  73. Profile photo of TheBLB
    TheBLB Male 18-29
    239 posts
    July 29, 2008 at 11:26 am
    I really appreciate the debates on here, but I wish that people could understand the hostility Christianity feels. I live in BC, and this side/portion of the continent is the most "unchurched" in NA. And that`s fine. All of the people I meet in a church are there for their beliefs, and not to keep up with the Joneses. Maybe in the bible belt it`s wrong to criticize religion, but where I live, it is NOT. At all, and everywhere else I`ve been in Canada is basically the same.

    I always see people on here debating, and 90% of the time, it`s honest and beneficial, but those few comments of "Christians are douchebags".... is that beneficial at all? I don`t go throwing insults at Muslims form across a road. Really, I don`t.

    Calling names and adding in verbal jabs then running away doesn`t make you brilliant, it makes you a coward with low self esteem.

    Anyhow, feel free to flame me, call me a douchebag, etc.

    Much Love

  74. Profile photo of catbarf
    catbarf Male 18-29
    1455 posts
    July 29, 2008 at 11:38 am
    Christians have no reason to be against homosexuality. There is not a single passage in the NT that condemns it. There are plenty in the OT- but most Christians claim not to follow that (despite passages in Mark and Matthew that say they should).

    So basically, if you use the Bible to condemn homosexuality, you are also required burn a city to the ground and kill all inhabitants just because one person worships another god (as per Deuteronomy 13:12). Isn`t that fun?

  75. Profile photo of Overmann
    Overmann Male 18-29
    2600 posts
    July 29, 2008 at 6:41 pm
    "And nice job completely changing what I said."

    Actually I did not. If you want to claim the morals of the Bible are open to interpretation, I`m free to interpret them however I wish, as is society. Because I suspect you don`t seriously believe God will let anyone into heaven for following their own interpretation, he must have some guidelines for admittance. You have yet to provide me with those guidelines in any clear, unambiguous language. And if there are no such guidelines, then that means the preachers are pulling it all out of their asses, which I think is closer to the truth anyway.

    "...so people can allude to them at any time in history and it would fit."

    The guidelines I am talking about would fit any time in history, as well. For instance, "Do not lay with a man if thou art a man, and do not lay with a woman if thou art a woman, lest ye burn in hell" is unambiguous. As near as I can tell, there will only ever be one way to be gay.

  76. Profile photo of mrpopenfresh
    mrpopenfresh Male 18-29
    1037 posts
    July 29, 2008 at 6:48 pm
    Oh god, his tirade against the english dude was of Joker-istic proportions.

    He also has dick sucking lips.

  77. Profile photo of rock_jock
    rock_jock Female 30-39
    122 posts
    July 29, 2008 at 6:54 pm
    Richard Dawkins--the Evangelical Atheist. I love him.
  78. Profile photo of REBELComx
    REBELComx Male 18-29
    477 posts
    July 30, 2008 at 7:15 am
    "But please, don`t be arrogant." What a hypocrite. Isn`t saying that, especially in that tone of voice, arrogant? What could possibly be more arrogant than thinking you already have all the answers, and choosing to ignore hundreds of years of scientific research and evidence?

    And mrpopenfresh...dick sucking lips is right, if he was sucking a goddamn whale. If they were any more stretched, they`d be off his face entirely. I`m not sure if that`s from dick sucking though. It`s probably from wrapping his lips around his congregation`s wallets like the self serving money vaccuum he and all televangelists are.

  79. Profile photo of phroedoux
    phroedoux Male 18-29
    364 posts
    July 30, 2008 at 8:23 pm
    But since a person cannot ultimately disprove God, then there is room to say that God can exist.
    "If science were to disprove god, knowing the scientists I know, I have all the confidence that they would not rest until they had corrected their mistake."
  80. Profile photo of TheBLB
    TheBLB Male 18-29
    239 posts
    July 31, 2008 at 10:35 am
    Christians have no reason to be against homosexuality. There is not a single passage in the NT that condemns it. There are plenty in the OT- but most Christians claim not to follow that (despite passages in Mark and Matthew that say they should).

    So basically, if you use the Bible to condemn homosexuality, you are also required burn a city to the ground and kill all inhabitants just because one person worships another god (as per Deuteronomy 13:12). Isn`t that fun?

    _____________________________________________

    Paul mentions it a few times. I`m not against gay people... my family is really gay. Biblically though, I don`t believe in the lifestyle.

  81. Profile photo of Overmann
    Overmann Male 18-29
    2600 posts
    August 1, 2008 at 10:37 pm
    "But since a person cannot ultimately disprove God, then there is room to say that God can exist."

    People can`t prove God either, an idea which I feel takes precedence when attempting to assess the validity of any claim. I can`t definitively disprove a number of absurd notions, but that doesn`t mean I should believe them or allow them room because, regardless, they are still absurd notions. God is just such a notion, albeit a popular one because some people were gullible enough (or conniving enough) to copy and translate a book through the centuries based on no evidence. Because the God Hypothesis is popular, people choose to regard it as an exception to the validity-measuring pathway I described above.

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