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Well THAT faith healer is out of the job.
But surely, if you were gunna ask some almighty power for help - you`d only ask if it was a real emergency? Isnt it like a waste of their time to be listening to prayers about stuff that can be "healed" by real doctors..
I dunno, maybe im just not understanding it?"
That about sums it up. Religion can be good, some people are just stupid...
Actually, atheists don`t necessarily believe in anything. Atheism is defined as the lack of belief in God, not the belief that there is no God or that there should be no religion. Many atheists *also* may happen to believe such things, but you can`t generalize that under the umbrella of `atheists`.
You are officially my favorite athiest ever.
I really don`t have a problem with athiests not believing in god, as long as they don`t go around town screaming "THERE IS NO GOD!"
That being said, everyone should take their coins of their country and throw them at ducks. 10 points if you hit them in the head!
Well uhm... The Constitution has been changed many times, ie. Amendments added... so wouldn`t that be even farther from the original document than the New Testament?
Well people, I`m going to put in my 2 cents here. I am a strong Lutheran Christian, but I am going to ask that athiest do not start calling me a `Cultist` or anything stupid like that.
I believe in God the Father, and Jesus the Messiah. I also beleive in science. Having a Faith Healer is great and all, but a doctor should be utilized in medical cases too. God made plants and herbs and things like that, and gave them healing powers. He gave humans knowledge, and that knowledge was used to start medical services. Doctors are not masters of Blasphemy, after all
ITT: Proof that people have too much time on their hands.
TonyBlairPM: Very well put. Eloquent and convincing, and with a killing final point.
with that other girl who died because their parents believed in faith healing?
ugh, they don`t believe in medicine, just like they don`t believe in gravity...
Also, blood letting proven unsuccessful.
I`ve been there. Happiest days in my life was when I believed in Father Christmas.
Who`s the C*nt in this scenario?
A guy was drowning in the ocean. A boat came by and asked "Do you need some help?" The guy said, "No thanks, God will save me." Then another boat came by and asked the same thing, "Do you want us the help you?" Then the guy said,"No thanks God will save me."
Then the guy drowned and died and in heaven he asked God, "Why didn`t you save me?" Then God said, "I sent you two big boats dummy!"
I`d really like to see your whole thought process laid out in writing, every question you come up with and every response you use to put it to rest. Heck, I`d even make a new e-mail account for you to send an attachment to.
to each, their own. unless it conflicts with health. i never understood religion so i can`t bash it in any way. i just don`t understand how erogant and stubborn the parents were not to take thier kid to a REAL doctor.
People are stupid therefore religion is stupid"
Science was created by people. Deductive reasoning is a bitch ain`t it?
Been there, done that. When I was doing the whole confirmation thing I started to wonder whether I had it right.Asked myself questions, like Is Catholicism correct? Is Jesus a messiah? Is there a God? I eventually came to a conclusion. I wasn`t going to believe in something just because my parents believed it, I wanted to find out on my own. To this day I still ask these questions and still come up with the same answers. Maybe I should change the questions. Where is waldo?
If something bad happens, thats proof there is no God. If something good happens, its placebo or all in their heads.
Wow, that is hands down one of the worst claims for there to be no God. So if someone dies in surgery that would be proof of a God but if someone survives its proof there isn`t a God. That means there isn`t a God 97% of the time but the other 3% there is a God (numbers made up just to prove a point)
On another point, I don`t think anyone in the 13-17 age range should have such strong convictions about faith as you clearly hold, mrsguineapig. Take a break from the dogma and live a little, all the while critically thinking about what people from both sides say about faith. A decision to believe after rigorous examination is more respectable, I think, then merely believing what your parents would have you believe.
"Religion isn`t stupid...people are stupid. Everybody seems to feel that all terrible things happen because of religion...at mostly on this sight it`s narrowed to Christians."
Interesting you should say that considering religion was and is created by people.
People are stupid therefore religion is stupid.
You wouldn`t happen to be religious, hmm?
Perhaps then I should rephrase my statement. The New Testament is one of the most accurately copied texts in history. However, considering there are over 5,000 Greek manuscripts alone (we won`t even get into the other languages from later years), the New Testament puts other documents to shame. Consider that the document with the next most manuscript testimony is Homer`s Iliad with fewer than 650 manuscripts remaining today. And I haven`t heard anyone say that it`s been mistranslated. As far as comparing the NT to the Constitution, the NT has ssurvived for over 2,000 years whereas the Constitution just over a tenth of that!
Your knowledge of Church history seems to consist of little more than "The Da Vinci Code" so I`ll leave it at that.
That is probably the biggest factor contributing to blatantly stupid and completely unnecessary tragedies like the one portrayed in this story. Unfortunately, I`m at a loss as to how to solve that problem. Public and unbridled ridicule seems only to convince those infected with the mind virus that the Devil is "testing their faith".
"Technically speaking, the New Testament is the most accurately copied document in history"
You wish! Hah! That record most likely belongs to the US constitution. Anyway, the new testament was assembled through the votes of various christian sects at the council of Nicaea. You might call it well copied but its origins are far from `perfect`.
When something beneficial happens, it`s a miracle. When something tragic and painful happens, it`s God`s Will. Even with this incoherent inconsistency, the belief that God is benevolent persists. So far, the only conclusion I`ve been able to come up with is that (and I`m bending over backwards, mind you) if God existed, he doesn`t give a flying f*ck either way.
"The two are probably best when combined."
Funny. Whenever I`ve noticed the two combined, faith always tended to want to overrule science, much as it wants to do so now in the education system.
You`re definitely right there...
"All we have are [relatively] newer copies of older pieces. And since for it`s first 600 or 700 years of existence, only Clergy were allowed to actually read the Bible, who knows what got changed."
Actually, we have copies of the gospel of Matthew dated back some time between 35 and 70 years after the death of Christ, and the accuracy of our modern copies to this are within the 98th percentile. Technically speaking, the New Testament is the most accurately copied document in history. "All religions are subject to corruption by politics and vice versa..."
Again, you are most certainly correct.
"when science and logic became more popular and the church lost it`s grip on power."
The Church was much more a political organization than a religious one at the time (in so far as Papal authority was regarded as superior to Biblical authority).
Science to analyze the problem and heal it, and faith and prayer to speed the process along.
Religion isn`t stupid...people are stupid. Everybody seems to feel that all terrible things happen because of religion...at mostly on this sight it`s narrowed to Christians.
"as in 2000 years of suffering, persecution, famine, wars, and hangings wasnt enuff."
All that was happening long before 2000 years...
Also you don`t need religion for ALL of the things mentioned. Religion is a powerful tool all too easy to abuse, but the actual point of religion has NOTHING to do with causing said suffering on others.
Faith healers are scam artists out to make a buck out of poor and stupid people who foolishly place their faith in a person`s claimed ability to heal, rather than in Christ alone for salvation. God gave men gifts of knowlegde and wisdom, as well, and with these, cures and teatments can be found for diseases. I don`t like a lot of what goes on in medical circles, and most drugs will kill you while only masking the symptoms of a disease, but doctors certainly do have many good uses as well.
See the picture I posted on the previous page.
Actually, if you study the original Hebrew and context of the passages, you come to some interesting conclusions about those otherwise grossly inaccurate statements. Unfortunately, I don`t have the resources on hand to cite, and I don`t like quoting out of context, so for the moment I can`t support my claim in this forum.
The problem with these people is their extremist interpretation of the Bible. That does not, however mean that there is a problem with the Bible itself - which is my point overall.
...Without thinking they had ANY need at all, to go to any sort of actual doctor, whatsoever?
I mean, I`m all for religion and stuff, but the day God comes down from heaven and punches me in the face is the day I`ll beleive 100%.
Now I`m just rambling, though. I don`t remember the point I was trying to make.
Actually, the debate does carry over into these subjects. Imagine if the child had recovered, and the parents proclaimed a miracle. For that matter, what about supposed miracles of more astonishing feats (such as people regaining eyesight, hearing, mobility, etc.) Do people automatically accept these occurences as intervention by some god? Some do, but most certainly not all. Then the debate begins. Was it really a miracle? Was it just the placebo effect? Was it a scam? You get the idea.
Though I don`t agree with the concept of NOMA (non-overlapping magisteria) as a whole, it should be noted that there are some truths which cannot be known through science (free will for example). Likewise, the Bible is not a scientific document.
Extremism in any form is lothesome. Hey pat...
Okay, I just wans`t sure, but now that you`ve cleared it up, I can say I relate entirely. Sometimes I`m not sure why I bother arguing with folks... but then it`s fun for me most of the time.
Side note: I never knew Kratos was a real part of Greek mythology. I always figured they just creatd him for the video game. Learn something new every day.
haha nothing wrong with betting on both horses i suppose doug.
And let us not fieget the super Christian Extremists...ie Jesus Camp...
*Still anxiously awaiting textbooks to arrive via UPS* I seriopusly want there to be another religiouse debate. I want to unleash my new found knowledges when I find them. lol, but not here.
I just say a simple one lined prayer thing- ok an opening line- whatever- to mnaybe boost my confidence on a test or extra luck.
Although, I think God might have helped me once or twice...I`ll still put that 6 bucks in the sadage (What is it in islam again? Charity I suppose) whene ver I will be able to.
But I`m not saying God will always answer you. God works in mysteriouse ways- if he exists.
I made my comment available. See above.
But I noticed something strange.I noticed that many times along the path of my life,There was only one set of footprints.I also noticed that it happened at the hardest times in my life.
I said, “God, I’ve noticed that during the most difficult times of my life,There is only one set of footprints.I don’t understand why, when I needed you the most,You would leave me.”God replied, “I didn’t leave you.During your times of trial and suffering,When you see only one set of footprints,That was when I carried you.”
its cooll happens all the time
No, they`d say that God works in mysterious ways and that the teen`s death was to teach the family yadda yadda yadda. In other words:
Yes, terrible things have been done in the name of God, but that doesn`t mean that God condones that behavior. Imagine if you told me that you really didn`t like Bob over there. He did stuff that made you angry. You tell me that I shouldn`t be like Bob. Then I decide to go and kill Bob and burn his family alive, proclaiming your name in the process. That`s kinda what`s happening here.
Is there a way I can say that I beleive in Abraham`s God without saying I am agnost/atheist or for one branch of Abrahams God?
sure its not the one that makes sense...
*bangs heads repeatedly against keyboard*
well i meant the witch hunts..... christian persecution in rome
and we all know averysingle war for the last century had something to do with someones God being better than somebody elses God
Cept in this case.. the boat would have been a doctor..
happy ending :) *+*+*+
So if someone has a different worldview from you, their point of view is invalid?
"I like your Christ, but not your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." Ghandi
All that was happening long before 2000 years...
I dunno, maybe im just not understanding it?
as in 2000 years of suffering, persecution, famine, wars, and hangings wasnt enuff