Rockin' in the free world since 2005.

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Date: 06/05/08 02:00 AM

196 Responses to Earthlings

  1. Profile photo of Nightshifter
    Nightshifter Male 18-29
    513 posts
    June 4, 2008 at 2:31 pm
    Link: Earthlings - This documentary about humanity`s dependence on animals is VERY hard to watch at times, but everyone should see it.
  2. Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12151 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 2:05 am
    An HOUR AND A HALF? What, is IAB the Discovery Channel now?

    F*ck that.

  3. Profile photo of Ninnie
    Ninnie Female 18-29
    106 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 2:11 am
    Human beings are animals. It`s nature. When will people realise this?

    Think of all the animlas that eat meat. There`s a lot of them. Shall we tell the lion to leave the antelope alone because it`s just not nice? I got a feeling he`ll die if he listens to us...

  4. Profile photo of Maromi
    Maromi Female 18-29
    1095 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 2:13 am
    um...yea i doubt anyone is going to sit down and watch that entire thing.
  5. Profile photo of thestringy
    thestringy Male 18-29
    483 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 2:15 am
    i would love to spend an hour and a half watching this but as it is i could only get through the first 2 minutes
  6. Profile photo of BloodyHippie
    BloodyHippie Male 18-29
    148 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 2:20 am
    This is easily the longest thing I`ve ever seen on this website. Perhaps one boring afternoon I may watch the entire thing, but for now I`m going to go find something more entertaining and less deperessing.

    On note of the topic. I`m all for a better life and less painful death for the meat I eat, but it tastes to good to go without.

  7. Profile photo of justdidit
    justdidit Male 18-29
    49 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 2:31 am
    I`m 10 minutes in and I`m already horrified...this is really sad and it really pisses me off...it shouldn`t have to be this way if it`s "natural" or not
  8. Profile photo of kribbe
    kribbe Male 18-29
    2006 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 2:40 am
    i watch for 33 min, it`s a really sad story
  9. Profile photo of MissMage
    MissMage Female 18-29
    697 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 2:42 am
    I agree, Hippie. I`m okay with eating meat, I just wish people could treat the animals they kill for our consumption, more humanely. I always have.
  10. Profile photo of keira90
    keira90 Female 13-17
    32 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 2:52 am
    I agree with Ninnie, its important we have meat in our diet, its nature, what would we have done if man way back thought " im gonna leave that lion alone" we would have either starved or been eaten, and i dont think the lion would think twice. I dont like that its done in a horrible way but thats how its got to be done, we would be the first to complain if there was a lack of meat due to them anesthetizing them and drawing out the process.
  11. Profile photo of sunsetxluv22
    sunsetxluv22 Female 13-17
    415 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 2:58 am
    yet again, an hour and a half. no thanks.
  12. Profile photo of simcon
    simcon Male 13-17
    254 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 2:59 am
    Wow that is really sad. I skipped to 20 minute mark and watched for around 10 minutes :`(

    Why in the slaugherhouse can they just not behead the animals. This would mean the animal would feel no pain and it would be instant.

  13. Profile photo of benjbenj
    benjbenj Male 30-39
    916 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 3:07 am
    Skinned alive. Close to the 6 minute mark (5.50 or something). No doubt there are other species that skin their prey, but at least they kill it soon afterwards. Human beings could learn from them.
  14. Profile photo of Monkeydelic
    Monkeydelic Male 30-39
    10 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 3:08 am
    One thing is to eat meat, one thing is to mass-produce it.
    It messes with the natural balance of the earth.
    Cows are actually contributing with global warming, and whos fault is that?
    It`s our fault, we are the ones that are mass-producing cows.
  15. Profile photo of shepherd
    shepherd Male 30-39
    137 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 3:10 am
    it may well be nature (I think you all mean natural) to eat meat - it is not though natural to torture the animal first.

    hunting animals kill efficiently and waste not a jot.

    We on the other hand demand cheap food, therefore raising the game for the farmers, then when we get it we waste most of it, throwing it in the bin.

    meat is murder - tasty, tasty murder.

    meat is not - starvation, exploitation, oppression and torture, then finally, waste.

  16. Profile photo of Nearl
    Nearl Male 30-39
    34 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 3:12 am
    On a site that has endless debates about religion, I hope you all can be bothered to at least spend the 1h35m and watch it all, go on, don`t give up because you don`t want to see what really goes on. I myself will probably never eat meat again.
    Thanks for openning my eyes IAB
  17. Profile photo of ruthless1990
    ruthless1990 Female 18-29
    3001 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 3:37 am
    so this is meant to unbore you how??

    who cares!
    but ive seen some of the worst animal rights campaign clips, and i still eat meat. so i dont think an hour and a half of it will change my mind :)


    also nearl
    people arent not watching it cause they dont wanna know what goes on lol, its cause its boring and we have better things to do with our lives!!!

  18. Profile photo of ruthless1990
    ruthless1990 Female 18-29
    3001 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 3:39 am
    i feel insensitive now, just like to say i dont agree with the way meat is produced, it is sad. but im still gonna go eat some meat. :|
  19. Profile photo of elHadji
    elHadji Male 70 & Over
    1456 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 3:49 am
    Animals = meat
    Meat = good

    Nuff said.

  20. Profile photo of haxxorz
    haxxorz Male 13-17
    728 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 3:59 am
    I`ll watch it when I haven`t been awake for more than a day.
  21. Profile photo of canyonhead06
    canyonhead06 Male 18-29
    1 post
    June 5, 2008 at 4:01 am
    humans were made to eat meat. Other animals are the same. However, it boggles my mind and makes me want to KICK peoples A$$`s when I hear them say, "yeah oh well." or "we have better things to do with our lives then care about this." How dare you! It is horrible that humans, being a much more superior to any other living thing, take advantage of other animals who trust us for love and care or have no other choice but do what we say.I which everyone would watch when in the movie the fox gets his skin riped off while still alive and then the camera watches him after all skin had been riped off with him STILL BEING ALIVE. Humans are horrible. We are horrible. May God truly have mercy on our soles, for if it were me, we would all be in hell
  22. Profile photo of ruthless1990
    ruthless1990 Female 18-29
    3001 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 4:07 am
    i just watched it, they put a dog in a bin thing, this film made me cross with people. im off to eat some meet and feed my pet dog, and not let it go to an animal rescue thing. :(
  23. Profile photo of GinnyRenee
    GinnyRenee Female 18-29
    129 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 4:09 am
    I`m surprised this isn`t PETA affiliated.
  24. Profile photo of ruthless1990
    ruthless1990 Female 18-29
    3001 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 4:11 am
    ohhh ive posted alot of replies on this one, last one i promise. but dont you think possibly we should be worrying about things like the kids starving in africa, kids who are abused here, slavoury, third world debt...

    is more important than animal problems? no?

    and again
    last one i promise. people are cruel!!

  25. Profile photo of farquaadhnch
    farquaadhnch Male 18-29
    1225 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 4:17 am
    I don`t agree with the way that our meat is mass produced, but I can`t help but eat it because I, like every other human on this planet, am an omnivore. You can be vegetarian all you want, but just be sure you are getting enough protein.

    I`ve seen videos like this and did an entire section in my Eng Comp class about how meat is made. Don`t say I don`t care, I`m just realistic when I say I will eat meat regardless because the majority of the meat packing plants AREN`T like this.

    Not to mention most animal rights organizations lose their credibility when they splash red paint on models who were wearing faux fur because "it will make people think that animal skin looks nice, and they`ll want the real thing."

    I may be rambling, but I don`t think I`ll come back into this board to see how many people hate me now.

  26. Profile photo of andohondae
    andohondae Male 13-17
    44 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 4:35 am
    If your supposed to eat red meat and stuff why do you have to cook it first??

    People who advocate human consumption of meat often its natural and use scientific arguments such as the food chain and evolution to back up their arguments, however according to evolution our closest living relative is the chimpanzee....

    "but chimpanzees are omnivores" is going to be the reply to this, they are considered omnivores because they eat fruit AND insects like termites...They don`t eat cows and chickens because they`re not supposed to.

    "but its natural"...

    Its not natural to wear clothes but you do that don`t you?
    Its not natural to read and write but you do that don`t you?
    Its not natural to build buildings or educate our children...Human society is built on the unnatural so you can`t choose to act like an animal when you feel like it and a human when it suits you. With our higher level of intelligence comes higher moral standards by which we must live our lives

  27. Profile photo of andohondae
    andohondae Male 13-17
    44 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 4:36 am
    I`m not telling you not to eat meat but I`m simply pointing out that many of the arguments used to support it are fundamentally flawed

    Anyway this is what I think and I probably wont reply if you answer me back

  28. Profile photo of Matwix_2004
    Matwix_2004 Male 18-29
    2554 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 4:47 am
    I wouldn`t say I agree on all the subjects mentioned in the film, like for example, we are animals in the world, and like them, we are trying to survive, to survive, we kill other animals for meat, like all the other animals on the planet (bar the herbivores, but then, there are others of us humans who eat plants). The film however states that we kill them because we feel that we are better than them. While to kill them, we have to be better than them (which, we use knowledge, to create objects such as guns, which are use for brawn) but we are not killing them JUST because we are better than them. Okay, starting on the pet thing; I used to have a pet, we`ve looked after some for freinds, however, I didn`t know about the `puppy mills` per se. I don`t agree with the humans who haven`t thought out their actions of getting pets, and dump them, there are humans who are the same; homeless, if we are compairing like for like, then we can`t really ignore that, however, I don`t think that.....
  29. Profile photo of smilodonna
    smilodonna Female 18-29
    11 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 4:49 am
    I`ve killed a lot of animals - for food, for research, and for mercy (euthanasia). There is a right way to kill animals for all those purposes; a way that minimizes their stress and provides as much as possible a swift and painless death.

    Even though I support the use of animals by humans, I find that cruelty is simply unjustified. Such acts lie in the realm of sickness and sadism rather than of prudent and humane animal use.

    Unfortunately, that kind of thing can distort all use of animals by humans, even though it is not truly representative of it.

  30. Profile photo of farquaadhnch
    farquaadhnch Male 18-29
    1225 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 4:51 am
    I lied.

    andohondae, please don`t set up straw men. Find better ways to knock down arguments.

  31. Profile photo of farquaadhnch
    farquaadhnch Male 18-29
    1225 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 4:52 am
    smilodonna is one of the most intelligent people on this site.

    Man, I wish there was something for me to do at work...

  32. Profile photo of Matwix_2004
    Matwix_2004 Male 18-29
    2554 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 4:59 am
    ...any or every animal that is on the streets needs to be taken in by the pet control, and as this isn`t moderated for the time being, as much as it pains me to say it, the gas chambers are the quicketst and most effective way to deal with it, the injection being only there for giving humans peace of mind. This isn`t to say that I agree with animals suffering before death, but until people become more self aware of their actions, they wont stop not nutering their pets, or they will continue buying from pet shops, rather than shelters. But us trying to protect the trivial interests of our own species is what every species is trying to do, be it by gaining a human companion (and possibly unknowingly killing themselves that way), and a human would have had to befriend an animal before we could have had pets, so, the animal must have been willing to have a human companion, thus half making it their own fault as well. In the slaughterhouses, the methods that we do will animals with...
  33. Profile photo of farquaadhnch
    farquaadhnch Male 18-29
    1225 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 5:14 am
    I`m sorry, it wasn`t a straw man (I`m way too tired, need to get more sleep). It was an ad hominem attack.

    Conclusion: Eating meat is unnatural.
    Support:
    It`s not natural for humans to wear clothes. (True)
    It`s not natural for humans to read and write. (I beg to differ, but not fallacious)
    Everything a human does is not natural. (Fallacy)

    Hooray for my philosophy class freshman year of college! I won`t delete my second post on this thread because it is good for people here to know what a straw man is before they use one.

  34. Profile photo of Matwix_2004
    Matwix_2004 Male 18-29
    2554 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 5:16 am
    kill animals with* is the most effective that we have created so far, killing them painlessly and immediatly, assuming that those using that gun have been trained how to use it (the person in the clip hadn`t.) Most RSPCA and the like have been trained how to. I do not think that killing animals in itself is a `terrible act`, even if it is for food. Of course, breeding animals for food is bad, and thus shows our power over these animals, but I don`t think that killing animals for fodd in general (i.e. if they hadn`t been bred for it) is bad. I do not think however, if we had to eat our own meat, we would become vegeterians, but we do not need to, so there is little point discussing such a subject...the only reason that the animal wasn`t dead, was because the shot wasn`t fired correctly, most just assume anywhere in the brain/head will kill it, however, you do need to be trained how to use such a gun. Watching the slaughter house, I don`t have any comments on that part, I don`t agee.....
  35. Profile photo of Triskele
    Triskele Female 18-29
    215 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 5:23 am
    I`ve seen this before a while ago, it`s worth watching if you`re interested in this sort of thing. It really opened my eyes about fur farms.

    I`m a vegetarian, and I agree eating meat is natural, but some slaughterhouses are downright barbaric. Some people may not care, but I`m sure they would if another superior species evolved and started eating us the same way, before skinning us alive. On second thought, that`s pretty creepy.

  36. Profile photo of coolbananas
    coolbananas Female 18-29
    859 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 5:24 am
    This was awful, i wanted to watch it all the the video craped itself.
    Wish that wasnt how it was done, i dnt see how people can sleep at night after doing that!
  37. Profile photo of kgaudry
    kgaudry Female 18-29
    55 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 5:26 am
    I thought the film was educational, although I still love my meat and leather motorcycle Jacket, I think if the animals can be killed quickly and with a little dignity and respect would be good.
  38. Profile photo of Matwix_2004
    Matwix_2004 Male 18-29
    2554 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 5:30 am
    with what is happening, but unless one can find a better way for slaughtering to happen, and for it to be regulated in such a way it will be kept kosher, I`d like to hear it. When the animals are castrated, they are doneso without anasthetic...as are some humans, however, human castration usually has less of a purpose, (or, less of a purpose benificial to other humans). I suppose for now, that`s all I have to say.
  39. Profile photo of larajunky
    larajunky Female 40-49
    1832 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 5:40 am
    Said by Ninnie :
    "Human beings are animals. It`s nature. When will people realise this?"

    Wow, where are you from anyhow? Humans are not animals you dolt! Humans are Human and animals are animals, DUH! Do animals go out and get a job? Do animals go grocery shopping and take their kids to daycare? Do animals wear clothes? I could go on and on!! I would have to say that you are very ignorant. Yes we eat meat its part of the carnivorous side of being human (and yes there are Vegan`s too, don`t get all twisted) BUT animals in the wild have natural instincts to go hunt for their food. They don`t need humans going around taking their skins so they can look good. Its wrong, brutal and horrifying. I wonder what a cow or fox or any other animal would look like wear YOUR skin?? Think about it. Domesticated animals rely on us for their well being. If they are put to slaughter at least treat them with dignity.

  40. Profile photo of Sabre200000
    Sabre200000 Male 18-29
    1039 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 5:42 am
    Practically every animal on this earth will/could kill another animal at any time.

    If you put a human and a lion face to face, one of you is going to die.

    Killing simply to kill, racism, sexism, slavery, etc...are in no way close to being related to killing animals for food.

    All things should be treated well in all situations in life. We`ll all be eating lab created meat not too long into the future anyway, heheh.

  41. Profile photo of kaitlyno2
    kaitlyno2 Female 13-17
    6 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 6:11 am
    I got 5 minutes in, and i was crying so uncontrolably that my brother came in and asked if i were ok!
    All my pets have come from shelters and always will. my dog molly is 15 years old.
  42. Profile photo of handsomefag
    handsomefag Male 18-29
    296 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 6:20 am
    watched this before. heart wrenching.
  43. Profile photo of IceGhost
    IceGhost Male 18-29
    63 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 6:22 am
    What is the best way to kill a cow or a pig... I still think a gunshot is the best and fastest way.
  44. Profile photo of Bubonic
    Bubonic Male 18-29
    31 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 6:22 am
    At this point in time it is no longer a matter of life or death. Killing and torturing anything is senseless. You wouldn`t die without eating meat and there are so many other things other than meat to eat.

    This is the time for change so why not start here.

  45. Profile photo of Blackdeath
    Blackdeath Female 13-17
    31 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 6:44 am
    wow i didnt watch the whole thing only about 10min skipping around but that was depressing

    yah we need meat to function properly but do we have to kill the animals in such a way that it is like we are laughing in their faces as we kill them

    another thing is why cant we have more nonkill shelters for animals

  46. Profile photo of autographed
    autographed Male 18-29
    81 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 7:04 am
    I couldn`t get past 20 minutes...
  47. Profile photo of NunuChan
    NunuChan Male 18-29
    279 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 7:15 am
    ok seriously I couldn`t go thru 1:30min, just seeing that what-ever-it`s-called fish in so much pain... >.> seriously wtf T_T.
  48. Profile photo of Dakkar
    Dakkar Male 18-29
    1256 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 7:16 am
    The world isn`t all sunshine and rainbows, unfortunately there are things that we`d rather not see or hear.

    I don`t have a problem with eating meat and in most cases how its produced. When its torture there`s a problem and I will boycott the supplier not an entire diet.

    But some people do want to boycott the diet and that`s their right to do. I just personally can`t stand when vegans and vegetarians constantly badger me to change my eating habits.

    Nonetheless, I didn`t watch the movie because I know it wouldn`t change my mind and I`m already aware of the evils in some sectors of food production.

  49. Profile photo of munchkincat
    munchkincat Female 18-29
    20 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 7:21 am
    "ohhh ive posted alot of replies on this one, last one i promise. but dont you think possibly we should be worrying about things like the kids starving in africa, kids who are abused here, slavoury, third world debt..."

    What`s the video about? It`s about animals being unrightfully treated. Alot of us do care about the children starving in africa, enslavement and child abuse, but we`re talking about what we`ve just seen. Hard to understand, I`m sure.

    Also, that is just seriously awful, and hard to watch. I can only watch half now as I must go to work shortly. It probably really effected me since I work at a pet shop. :S

  50. Profile photo of ibetam
    ibetam Male 18-29
    51 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 7:23 am
    an hour and a half of video followed by many hours of further research, an informative afternoon. an afternoon hardening misanthropy that now has a great thirst for action. none of us deserve to exist by our own judgement, only hypocrisy agrues
  51. Profile photo of ManekiNeko1
    ManekiNeko1 Female 18-29
    9 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 7:26 am
    I watched the whole thing and I cried. Pass the veggie burgers
  52. Profile photo of Mantistador
    Mantistador Male 18-29
    2200 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 7:33 am
    when they put the dog in the trash compactor that made me sick... it was like looking out... just staring...
  53. Profile photo of Austelle
    Austelle Female 13-17
    13 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 7:36 am
    I watched nearly halfway, but the video stopped loading. :`(
    That was so incredibly sad, I cried too!
    Sigh.

  54. Profile photo of Fayth
    Fayth Female 18-29
    496 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 7:49 am
    Oooh, Godiwin`s law in the first ten minutes.
  55. Profile photo of shelerella
    shelerella Female 18-29
    160 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 7:53 am
    Disgusting. I cannot see why there has to be so much waste. Mass production of animals is just wrong, and the slaughtering practices are reprehensible. Eating meat is perfectly natural, torturing animals and forcing them to live in filth and fear is not.
  56. Profile photo of Muser
    Muser Male 18-29
    54 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 7:56 am
    I haven`t watched all of it yet but that was hard. The dog that was given cyanide is going to haunt me for a long time.
  57. Profile photo of ClearSky87
    ClearSky87 Male 18-29
    227 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 8:02 am
    humans may be an animal...but to do such cruel things to other animals would cause us to deny our moral code...to go downwards on our evolutionary chain

    yes you can say "nuff said" or "humans are animals" but in saying that you also say that you are willing to give up your higher moral values...and therefore devolve

  58. Profile photo of bubba5658
    bubba5658 Male 50-59
    38 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 8:08 am
    As a proud member of PETA (People Eating Tasty Animals) I would be happy to hunt my own food. The slaughterhouses are disgraceful.
  59. Profile photo of crackyak
    crackyak Female 30-39
    1 post
    June 5, 2008 at 8:12 am
    It’s true what they say about us humans. That we differ from animals in that we’re the only creatures on this planet who take more than what we actually need to survive. Animals (not all) kill other animals to eat, or they starve to death. Nothing more. We humans kill other creatures for entertainment, for vanity and for reasons other than to ensure the survival of our kind. We’re capable of something animals are not – GREED! After watching this video, I shudder to think what we humans, after all our evolutions, have truly amounted to. At the end of the day, who deserves to be called animals, us or them?
  60. Profile photo of rodrigorenzo
    rodrigorenzo Male 18-29
    355 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 8:23 am
    I never tought I would learn one of the most important lesson in my life, in a site like iambored, that I enter just to entertain myself when I finished my work, and are still work hours to be done.
    -
    I´ve watched the hole thing.
    I think everyone should do it, I dont wanna talk back to a few people that comment here, cause I dont think that´s productive, everyone on their time, will learn to respect the animals.
    -
    Can I make a stupid comparision? everyone here have watched "War of the worlds" with Tom Cruise, huh? Would you like to be harvested like that?
    I dont think so.
    -
    We can live by eating on other things, things that are no alive. I´ve never seen a vegetarian sick or unhappy with his way of life.
    -
    Time to think a little bit.
  61. Profile photo of yes_finn
    yes_finn Male 18-29
    94 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 8:26 am
    We`re not actually made to eat meat, we could be fine if we were all vegetarians, not vegans. An all meat diet would be, not only disgusting, but extremely unhealthy.
  62. Profile photo of yes_finn
    yes_finn Male 18-29
    94 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 8:27 am
    By the way, I`ll be at BURNING MAN this summer showing this film, come watch it, or at least say hello to me :-)
  63. Profile photo of yes_finn
    yes_finn Male 18-29
    94 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 8:40 am
    Oh and one more, this movie is about the ANIMAL INDUSTRY and how evil that is, it`s not telling you not to eat meat (although that is an effect it has on most intelligent people who are not stubborn), it `s telling you how royally screwed we treat the other species on this planet. We are ONE OF MANY species, we are NOT SPECIAL on this planet. However, we treat the other species like expendable resources, it is shameful. Also, this movie does not say that this is THE ONLY issue we need to be sickened by, but just one of THE MANY.
  64. Profile photo of Jowsh
    Jowsh Male 18-29
    1237 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 8:41 am
    people are hell
  65. Profile photo of freeze43
    freeze43 Male 18-29
    85 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 8:49 am
    I would say that anyone who cannot watch this should not be a meat eater. I can watch it, and I still eat meat. Kosher meat= retarded, as its some nonsense religion stuff. Veal is retarded- doesn`t even taste good. And I would certainly say that there are some aspects of the meat industry that need tighter controls. Overall however its a very efficient and clean industry that gives thousands of jobs to people. My tippity top main concern is the sufferring- if they can kill quickly and painlessly, and give *some* respectable living conditions- this has been done and is socially encouraged. After they`re dead who gives a **** about how they treat the body? Throw it in a ferris wheel and take it out to a nice meal for all I care.
  66. Profile photo of StefanM
    StefanM Male 18-29
    63 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 8:57 am
    It`s very interesting to me that evolutionists use terms like "moral standards" and "unnatural." If you buy into the whole naturalistic philosophy (which is what the theory of evolution is based on), then EVERYTHING in the universe is the product of nature and thus natural. Humans and all of their technology are completely natural.

    If you don`t believe in anything beyond the natural, what basis do you have for any absolute moral code. Emphasis on the absolute there. I`m not saying you can`t be moral without a belief in a god, but if you don`t believe in objective absolutes, you`re left with subjective conventions. And conventions, by definition, are conventional. You may think that the slaughter of animals in unnecessary, but obviously not everyone shares that view. What basis do you have for claiming that your philosophical and moral views are superior to mine or those of anyone else?

  67. Profile photo of Xenophonix
    Xenophonix Female 18-29
    195 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 9:12 am
    A fantastic video that doesn`t take sides - just shows things for what they are.

    I`ve never understood how people can be so cruel to something that`s about to die to feed them. It made me cry to see all those pet dogs and cats die lonely and unloved.

    Like everyone said above - everyone should watch this entire video.

  68. Profile photo of Big_Gay_Nob
    Big_Gay_Nob Male 50-59
    678 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 9:24 am
    what a nasty species we are
  69. Profile photo of Assimilate13
    Assimilate13 Female 18-29
    134 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 9:39 am
    I watched about 30 min, and then the video stopped. I`ll track it down and watch the rest later, I need a break.

    I have been a vegetarian for over 15 years, and am not sickly or lacking in protein or any other essential nutrients. I am a vegetarian by choice, but appreciate everyone`s right to determine their own ethics. However, if you are going to eat meat, have pets, etc, you should at least be educated as to the source of your pleasures (and I would say the same of all potentially cruel products and vices).

    I don`t believe in god. I don`t believe in heaven or hell. But if these things and places do exist, we are all damned for our treatment of our fellow beings.

    The behaviors shown in this video are shameful, but unfortunately, no surprise.

  70. Profile photo of ClearSky87
    ClearSky87 Male 18-29
    227 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 9:49 am
    StefanM...did u see in the video how we are destroying our planet by our desire for copious amounts of meat? how we as a species will die along with most other life if we don`t stop?

    what is natural about a species killing itself and its planet?

    morals and values are a higher forms intelligence that arose from our increased intellect

    to dumb us down to mere beast who say "meat good!" takes away from our standing as the most intelligent being

    i don`t know if you have morals or believe in god or are a naturalist or w/e...but you can`t say slaughter houses are helping us in any way

  71. Profile photo of zmey5430
    zmey5430 Male 18-29
    4 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 10:00 am
    the moral of the story is to not buy cheap/low grade meat or battery chicken well at least thats the moral of as much as i could be bothered to watch
  72. Profile photo of beberino
    beberino Male 30-39
    3 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 10:01 am
    I`m profoundly disturbed by this documentary. Very sad truths. I`ll have a salad tonight.
  73. Profile photo of ScytheofLuna
    ScytheofLuna Male 18-29
    33 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 10:14 am
    That`s the problem right there: You can`t be bothered. That`s humanity in a nutshell.
    Are slaughterhouses and puppy mills the most prevalent issues facing mankind? Hardly, but they are indicative of our callous and selfish nature as a species. How can we hope to conquer issues like slavery, sexism, racism, religious fanaticism or genocide if we can`t even feed ourselves without cruelty and bloodshed. The fact that so many of you choose to blindly slurp up your bigmacs and rib-eyes without so much as a thought to the consequences speaks to the larger failures of humanity as a species. All of the violence and cruelty in the world begins with the choices that each of us make in our daily lives, from the products we choose to purchase to the decisions we make about what we consume for sustenance. This particular problem may not seem like much when weighed against genocide, but these things go on right here at home, in our neighbourhoods, and in our homes...
  74. Profile photo of Boadicea
    Boadicea Female 18-29
    1678 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 10:18 am
    I watched this about a year ago (after being a vegetarian for about four years) and went vegan soon after. I actually bought it and showed it to a friend of mine, and he`s vegetarian now too.

    To all the people bitching about `eating meat is natural` blah blah blah. That`s fine if that`s what you believe, BUT the point of this movie is not to shame you into vegetarianism, it`s to get you to actually THINK about what you`re eating. What a crazy thought eh? If you`re such a slave to meat, then how about supporting meat suppliers who treat tehir animals "humanely" (if that`s even possible to do to a creature you will soon murder..) and boycotting large-scale businesses that cater only to their profits at the expense of their products.

    Also, whoever brought up starving children in Africa and whatnot, what are YOU doing personally to help them? Nothing? Oh, I thought so. And even if you were doing something, why does that make it okay to ignore any other suffering going o

  75. Profile photo of ScytheofLuna
    ScytheofLuna Male 18-29
    33 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 10:23 am
    If you cannot be bothered to make your choices with consideration for all available factual information, how can we take you seriously? How can you truly justify your actions when the only argument you can make, is that it "tastes good" or that "other animals feed on animals". You cannot have it both ways. Justifying our domination over other species, is no different than justifying our domination over other people. Stating that we`re better than animals, and then continuing to behave like animals is contradictory. Either we`ve surpassed those baser instincts, and should strive to further evolve, or we are a stagnant species and therefore unworthy of saving ourselves. If you can stare the full magnitude of human cruelty in the face, if you can watch what this film depicts and still enjoy your animal carcass, or treat your dog as a lesser being, then that choice is yours to make. However if you can`t "be bothered" to watch the whole film, you can`t really b
  76. Profile photo of ScytheofLuna
    ScytheofLuna Male 18-29
    33 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 10:24 am
    be taken seriously.
  77. Profile photo of Boadicea
    Boadicea Female 18-29
    1678 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 10:24 am
    n in the world? That`s like saying feminists should stop working for women`s rights because there are so many homeless people on the streets. Forget the women, let`s feed all the homeless in the entire world first! Forget the animals, let`s solve ALL the suffering of mankind before we get to those pesky little things! Get a brain.

    ALSO, to the person saying not all slaughterhouses are like that, THEY ARE. These are "STANDARD INDUSTRY PRACTICES", okay? Do you understand what that means? That means that it is not just random acts of cruelty, but the way they are trained to do their jobs. They are trained to de-horn cattle, to de-beak fowl, and to incompetently slit their throats. That`s just the way they do it.

    (Sorry to be so manic, but the fact that people can watch something like this (if they even bothered) and come away only hearing one thing that personally offends THEM and miss the entire message is just further indicative of what a disgusting species we

  78. Profile photo of Boadicea
    Boadicea Female 18-29
    1678 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 10:26 am
    are.
  79. Profile photo of ScytheofLuna
    ScytheofLuna Male 18-29
    33 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 10:30 am
    You`re hardly manic Boadicea. We are forced to coexist with people who do things we find to be abhorrent. These people don`t want to think about it, and they will come up with any pale, flaccid justification they can conjure, so as to avoid guilt. As has been stated, THIS is a problem that`s right here in front of us, on our collective dinner plates, not in some third world nation, or some distant region. This isn`t something that can be rationalized by indicating that things are tough everywhere. If you buy products that are tested on animals, or you choose to eat the corpses of other living things, those are choices YOU have made, not some distant regime or corrupt dictatorship.
  80. Profile photo of ScytheofLuna
    ScytheofLuna Male 18-29
    33 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 10:37 am
    Again, I have to reiterate though, that to point out that animals eat other animals, is an asinine means of proving the point that it`s okay for people to do it too. We used to live on the bare earth, and wear animal skins before we learned to walk upright and make textiles. Perhaps once upon a time, such practices as spearing animals and consuming their dead flesh was necessary to our survival as a species, but that`s hardly the case today. Once a species has broken the sound barrier, split the atom, and cataloged it`s own genetic profile, it`s pretty flimsy to suggest that we can`t survive without meat and I`d say it`s a safe assumption that we can (and have) come up with other means of feeding ourselves. I`ve been a vegetarian for 8 years, and it`s caused no detriment to my health, and even if you cannot survive without meat or makeup, there is no reason you can`t eat free range, or purchase cruelty free cosmetics.
  81. Profile photo of Vindicate
    Vindicate Female 18-29
    511 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 10:42 am
    I`d laugh if, say, lions were in charge of the world for some reason and mass produced humans. Could you imagine the uprising humans would try to create, knowing that they would be tortured and tormented before there were finally slaughtered?

    Eating meat isn`t 100% essential - you can get protein from other sources. But comparing it to nature isn`t too accurate either. Humans were hunter/gatherers. They preferred meat, but didn`t always get it, so the diet predominantly what they gathered. It`s with the mass production of meat that we can have meat at every meal.

    Videos like this make me ill. Remind me too much of the video with the Chinese lady squishing animals, which then reminds me of putting my dog down. So I don`t want to watch it because I`ll be depressed for, like, a week.

    In the end, humans are terrible little beasties.

  82. Profile photo of toxic1
    toxic1 Female 18-29
    82 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 10:51 am
    hummm-propaganda?? I think so.
  83. Profile photo of ScytheofLuna
    ScytheofLuna Male 18-29
    33 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 11:02 am
    Um, no it`s not propaganda. That`s a pretty typical response though for someone desperately trying to justify their own actions. Propaganda is a means of compelling people to believe something that is untrue. Are you suggesting that peaceful coexistence with the creatures we share the planet with is not worth striving for? Are you suggesting that your greasy hamburger wasn`t derived from the corpse of a murdered animal? What precisely pray tell about this film is propaganda?
    If you watched the film it was stock footage. 100% real. You, toxic1 are part of the reason that nothing will ever change. You`ve already convinced yourself that it`s untrue despite all physical evidence to the contrary. Your assessment that it`s propaganda is based on what exactly? Personal bias, and the inability to cope with the reality of the facts. You don`t like the facts, therefore they cannot possibly be true.
  84. Profile photo of kenny_f
    kenny_f Male 13-17
    1825 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 11:14 am
    fu*k peta, its survival of the fittest, and i will survive
  85. Profile photo of Ultrawolf
    Ultrawolf Male 30-39
    17 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 11:30 am
    Maybe humans need to be put in place of the animals for a few years. Let`s breed human beings for slaughter and experimentation. Think about it...really think about it. Don`t just blow it off with the same ignorance "Animals were put here for us" as many have. Hell, Let`s start with the starving and homeless people.
  86. Profile photo of ScytheofLuna
    ScytheofLuna Male 18-29
    33 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 11:32 am
    Who said anything about Peta? And as for "survival of the fittest", while I do admire and support many aspects of Darwinian theory, the fact that the ignorant uneducated, and unenlightened continue to walk amongst us strains this aspect of Dawin`s reasonings. Humanity is an anomaly in this regard as many of us are hardly fit to survive, and yet the foolish, the selfish, the hateful dregs of humanity persist. Though when Kenny f gets colon cancer or ecol i from eating tainted beef, I wonder if he`ll be so pompous. That kind of macho sentiment might hold weight if you were wrestling cattle with your bare hands and killing them knife in hand. As it stands, the discussion we`re having is in regard to the impact of factory farming. Eating something that was slaughtered on an assembly line isn`t a testament to your "fitness to survive", but clearly, in your diminished mental capacity you somehow missed that.
  87. Profile photo of gorgack2000
    gorgack2000 Male 13-17
    4683 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 11:45 am
    Put basically becoming vegetarian doesn`t stop the amount of animals killed, it only removes the guilt.
  88. Profile photo of i-am-horny
    i-am-horny Male 13-17
    1053 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 11:46 am
    poo im half way through and am actualy considring vegitarinsm
  89. Profile photo of ScytheofLuna
    ScytheofLuna Male 18-29
    33 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 11:48 am
    Well, that`s certainly true, but short of holding a gun to people`s heads all we can do is attempt to enlighten and educate people. While I personally choose not to eat animals, and therefore cannot feel guilty about my own practices, this does nothing to assuage the anguish I feel due to the behaviour of others.
  90. Profile photo of i-am-horny
    i-am-horny Male 13-17
    1053 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 11:51 am
    This is very sick man!!
  91. Profile photo of Mr-Womble
    Mr-Womble Male 18-29
    108 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 11:52 am
    after watching that dolphin wriggle on the floor, crying in pain....i lost it.
    i havent cried in about a year and im not ashamed to say i did. unlike most of these ignorant b******* in here, i care about how everything else feels. i watched ALL of this video, how many of you did ?? or are you so scared of the truth ? ? no, im not a crazy hippie, im just human enough to care.
  92. Profile photo of Ultrawolf
    Ultrawolf Male 30-39
    17 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 11:59 am
    Oooo...and prisons can use prisoners for food as well.

    It`s not about eating meat, folks. It`s about the strain mass-production has put upon the environment and balance of life.

    Nothing wrong eating what YOU kill yourself. Humanity has just become lazy and a lot of waste has come from it. When the animals are gone and their meat products are abolished. Where are you going to find the meat? Humans =D

  93. Profile photo of excelman
    excelman Male 30-39
    418 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 12:06 pm
    This is like the environmentalists` shotgun of propaganda...get every nagative piece onto one video and blast us with it
  94. Profile photo of Boadicea
    Boadicea Female 18-29
    1678 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 12:21 pm
    Well why don`t you make a feel-good documentary about the lovely lives animals lead before being killed and consumed. What positives could there possibly be?
  95. Profile photo of yes_finn
    yes_finn Male 18-29
    94 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 12:24 pm
    totally QFT syctheofluna, you hit it on the funking waggles
  96. Profile photo of primetimekin
    primetimekin Male 18-29
    7936 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 12:29 pm
    Im for killing animals in a quick humane way that doesnt drive up prices. Scientist, start working. Im thinking a guillotine like system would be best. And also add serious fines to people who torture animals. Im still eating at BK though
  97. Profile photo of Lauraly
    Lauraly Female 18-29
    2262 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 12:38 pm
    Thanks IAB for making me cry. =(
    The images of the guy swinging the pigs and thumping them on the floor was one of the worst in the film, and the monkeys being shoved into tubes, and the animals twitching from medical experiments. I don`t understand how a person, any person could possibly treat another living being that way. How they can ignore the cries of pain and sadness.
  98. Profile photo of StefanM
    StefanM Male 18-29
    63 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 12:44 pm
    Eating something that was slaughtered on an assembly line isn`t a testament to your "fitness to survive""

    Sure it is. It`s a testament to my species` ingenuity, which is a survival trait that allowed us to dominate the earth.

    "did u see in the video how we are destroying our planet by our desire for copious amounts of meat?"

    Destroying our planet for meat? Seriously? If that`s truly the case, then forget the carbon tax, let`s put away anyone who eats a steak for bioterroism!

    "what is natural about a species killing itself and its planet?"

    As I`ve said, if you don`t believe in anything beyond the natural, then EVERYTHING is natural!

    "morals and values are a higher forms intelligence that arose from our increased intellect"

    So, would you say there are moral absolutes? If so, on what basis?

  99. Profile photo of StefanM
    StefanM Male 18-29
    63 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 12:48 pm
    "to dumb us down to mere beast who say "meat good!" takes away from our standing as the most intelligent being"

    To say we`re anything more would defy evolution! You can`t have it both ways!

    "i don`t know if you have morals or believe in god or are a naturalist or w/e...but you can`t say slaughter houses are helping us in any way"

    For the record, I am a Christian that loves to play devil`s advocate in debates. My point in this, however, is that the video makes claims about how "we all evolved together" etc to drive home a fraternal love. However, to say that something is unnatural, speaking from a strictly naturalistic philosophy, is contradictory. If we all evolved, then everything about us, for better for worse, is perfectly natural.

  100. Profile photo of Agentk120
    Agentk120 Male 18-29
    511 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 12:48 pm
    What?! We do terrible things to animals?! God, I had no idea.

    Your meat doesn`t come from trees. Either learn to not give a poo or do something about it. I`m tired of people feeling sad about poo and having sympathy for causes for fifteen minutes before forgetting about it.

    I, of course, am not blameless. I eat meat. Except for pork, but that`s just cause I found out how unbelievably intelligent and emotional pigs are.
    I ramble.

  101. Profile photo of decoratedbox
    decoratedbox Male 13-17
    36 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 12:53 pm
    Meh. Super boring. Other animals kill in equally or even more gruesome ways.
  102. Profile photo of Pilanus
    Pilanus Male 18-29
    675 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 1:03 pm
    This video made me sad, then it made me sick, and finally it made me angry. Sad because it completely throw away all my respect for Humanity. Then when the slaughterhouses were shown, I was so disgusted i threw up, but continued watching. Then when it showed the killing for entertainment, and it made me snap.

    Not only do i now want to become a vegetarian, I now hope for a massive pandemic to wipe out a good 5 billion people... They all need to simply die. Oh how i wish for nature`s revenge to be swift and powerful, a nice biblical plague would do the planet well.

  103. Profile photo of i-am-horny
    i-am-horny Male 13-17
    1053 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 1:09 pm
    Watched it all... made me sick... this is moving and touching... please watch it now
  104. Profile photo of i-am-horny
    i-am-horny Male 13-17
    1053 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 1:11 pm
    decoratedbox - if you would have watched, you would know your talking absolute sh*t,

    do lions lock zebras up in cages and torment them day in and day out, hit and bring them pain every silgle day for the rest of their lives?

  105. Profile photo of Night_Mystic
    Night_Mystic Female 18-29
    65 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 1:25 pm
    OK...first off I didn`t watch it all because I have seen sh*t like that before. Second: humans are animals. we are not better than them, and we are not worse than them. We just happened to have apposable(sp?) thumbs. Third: PETA are a bumch of hippocrites. Fourth: If you think animal testing is wrong, I suggest you refuse any vaccines, medications, medical treatment at doctors/hospitals, stop participating in "run for cure" things for breast cancer, AIDS, or whatever diseases are out there. ALl those depend(ed) on animals testing.


  106. Profile photo of Ald78
    Ald78 Female 18-29
    21 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 1:30 pm
    I just finished watching it...that was horrible. I cried through most of it. I have recently read Fast Food Nation and of course I heard how animals were treated..but to see it..whole different matter. There are no words to express how horrible it is and to know that this happens on a daily basis...
  107. Profile photo of Tonyjet
    Tonyjet Male 18-29
    3299 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 1:32 pm
    drat animals
  108. Profile photo of ScytheofLuna
    ScytheofLuna Male 18-29
    33 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 1:33 pm
    Nice attempt at rationalization StephanM. Say whatever you need to say in order to enable yourself to sleep at night. Mass market slaughter, and subjugation of a species is indefensible. You call yourself a Christian, (despite it`s complete lack of relevance to the topic at hand) but I find it difficult to believe the historical Jesus would condone factory farming, animal cruelty, or shrug those things off as being "natural", or that simply because you can do them, that you should. Human ingenuity has brought us inventions such as the atomic bomb, land mines, the Iron Maiden, thumbscrews, guillotines, and any number of other instruments who`s sole purpose is to cause pain and death. To suggest that such things are "natural" is asinine.
    Moral absolutes may be difficult to quantify, but that doesn`t negate them. Mayhaps you haven`t evolved enough to realize this.
  109. Profile photo of karangill1
    karangill1 Male 13-17
    29 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 1:33 pm
    They threw a dog in a grabage truck!?!??!?! ILL FACKIN KILL THEM. nO, SERIOSLY, IFI was there id rip that guys head off and throw him in.
  110. Profile photo of ScytheofLuna
    ScytheofLuna Male 18-29
    33 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 1:41 pm
    Well, Night Mystic, you`ve certainly demonstrated that YOU are no better than an animal, that`s for certain. However you`ve missed a vital point, if humans are no better than animals, than the converse would mean that animals are no worse, or less worthy, or less meaningful or valuable than humans. Why can`t all of those vaccines and medicines be tested on humans? Certainly volunteers for such procedures might be hard to come by, but violent criminals like murderers, rapists and child molesters could contribute to humanity by taking the places of lab rats for those tests. If we`re no better than animals, who would object to such a suggestion. Your logic is flawed, but since you brought it up that`s my solution. Humans need to start trying to live more harmoniously with their environment. To suggest that our negative impact is natural is naive, and exceptionally foolish.
  111. Profile photo of Matwix_2004
    Matwix_2004 Male 18-29
    2554 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 1:48 pm
    I wont stop eating meat because of this, yeah, I`ll probably think about how it was killed while/before eating it, but there isn`t a humainer way of killing them to feed the world (or, in this case, over-feed those who can be over-fed). I don`t eat that much meat on a day-to-day basis, but I`m not going to stop. I don`t wear much leather either, however, my dad unfortunatly does animal-testing of sorts...or he used to, he did stuff with frogspawn (I can`t remember what), and seeing this makes me think about it a little more seriously, and feel it`s not right. I`m not justifying myself by saying it`s okay to eat meat as I don`t eat lots, or I don`t wear fur/leather so I shouldn`t do anythign about it. I would kill me own food if I needed to (and was able to. But I`m probably going to help with animal testing and animal fur/leather protests.
    ScytheofLuna - I`m sure volinteers for medical testing would come easily enough if you payed them. They do that already for some drugs.
  112. Profile photo of Matwix_2004
    Matwix_2004 Male 18-29
    2554 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 1:59 pm
    Decorated box - Yes, they might do, but do they force animals to mate, only so their babies can grow up, mate, then be slaughtered, never seeing the light of day? Nope. They kill when they need to, usually, one or two animals can feed a whole pride of lions, we kill more than that, more frequently than that.

    Ultrawolf - If I needed to kill to eat, I would, however, living in London, it`s quite hard to find any animals to kill, but I don`t need to.

    Vindicate - If Lions took over somehow, and managed to put us in the place where the cows and pigs are, we`d probably do the same thing as them; not try and rebel. They managed to overpower us, the only reason animals don`t try and rebel is because they are scared of getting hurt. The only reason why most of us are still surviving is because of the weaponry and technology we have. How did we get that (or rather, how did those who built it make them?) through smarts, and the classic opposable thumb. We were once the victors of the...

  113. Profile photo of Matwix_2004
    Matwix_2004 Male 18-29
    2554 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 2:00 pm
    ...survival of the fittest debate, but our smarts made us become less so, but as we have our technologies, our weapons, and our smarts to improve on them, we will continue to be at the top of the food chain, until we extinct ourselves.
  114. Profile photo of risingflamez
    risingflamez Female 13-17
    649 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 2:17 pm
    i hope we extinct ourselves... animals are much purer creatures than humans.. we take advantage of ourselves and everything nature supplies.

    animals take what they need, whereas humans take everything they want. and selfishlssly give back with cruelties, as mentioned in this documentary, and other ways.. such as environmental pollution, destruction and ruining.

    i hate being reminded of how cruel our race is, but one voice is hard to hear.

  115. Profile photo of debbie0902
    debbie0902 Female 13-17
    8 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 2:18 pm
    i`ve seen this before, and it turned me vegetarian instantly. it makes me really angry when people act so ignorant and all high and mighty. because, frankly, we`re animals, too.
    okay, if you really want to eat meat, hunt it yourself. there`s absolutely no need for this mass production that puts animals through unnecessary torture.
    don`t you ever say that the way animals are killed for human consumption is "natural." in the wild, predators use all of what they get, there is no waste. and there is no unneeded suffering.
  116. Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12151 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 2:19 pm
    Right, that`s done.

    *dusts off hands, grabs car keys*

    Anyone else fancy a Big Mac?

  117. Profile photo of risingflamez
    risingflamez Female 13-17
    649 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 2:19 pm
    dainty, you`re right we "SHOULD".. but it`s hard to get people to do so because people don`t think alike. humans are cruel, whether they mean to be or not.


    and yes, money is the root of all evil.

  118. Profile photo of Dakkar
    Dakkar Male 18-29
    1256 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 2:32 pm
    Pilanus-"This video made me sad, then it made me sick, and finally it made me angry. Sad because it completely throw away all my respect for Humanity. Then when the slaughterhouses were shown, I was so disgusted i threw up, but continued watching. Then when it showed the killing for entertainment, and it made me snap.

    Not only do i now want to become a vegetarian, I now hope for a massive pandemic to wipe out a good 5 billion people... They all need to simply die. Oh how i wish for nature`s revenge to be swift and powerful, a nice biblical plague would do the planet well."

    If you seriously think this, you are no worse than every single person practicing cruelty to those animals in the video.

    Some humans actions can be reprehensible, but unlike what you wish for, mass-genocide isn`t the answer.

    You`re about the least progressive person on the planet.

  119. Profile photo of Cashcleaner
    Cashcleaner Male 18-29
    319 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 2:33 pm
    I`m hungry.

    No, I didn`t watch the movie. Yes, I do know where my food comes from.

  120. Profile photo of chrisfalcon
    chrisfalcon Male 18-29
    169 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 2:41 pm
    Wow. I managed to watch the whole thing, and I have got to say that I am now, more seriously than ever, considering becoming a vegan and not buying animal products. They said that humans are in denial about the atrocities being committed every day because slaughterhouses, puppy mills (etc.) are designed to be opaque. It`s true, if these kinds of behaviors were transparent, everyone would become vegetarians.

    I understand that the point of the film was to make people angry... and I won`t lie, I`m very angry. Yet it is going to take so much more than one person`s anger to change a multi-billion dollar industry. It`s no different than oil or fast food or mega-retailers: they like their money and they will do anything to continue obtaining it.

    Seriously... people need to wake up, take the silver spoons out of their mouths, and take a long, hard gander at all of the horrible things that they are accomplice to EVERY SINGLE DAY.

    Not part of the solution? Then you`re part of the problem.<

  121. Profile photo of chrisfalcon
    chrisfalcon Male 18-29
    169 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 2:43 pm
    And NO, it`s not natural to do this. Natural would be people getting off of their lazy asses and hunting like our ancestors did.

    Going to the market to get a steak is, perhaps, the ultimate symbol of how lazy and sad the human race has become. We`re so dependent on huge corporations to give us what we want that we don`t give a flying f*ck what is done to get it.

    Hunting is permissible. The mass murder of animals is not.

    End of story.

  122. Profile photo of caduceo13
    caduceo13 Male 18-29
    76 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 3:10 pm
    this is sick.
  123. Profile photo of Red5TheFinn
    Red5TheFinn Male 13-17
    1559 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 3:20 pm
    Am I the only one who is going to say " Thats Earth, deal with it"?
  124. Profile photo of Nidonemo
    Nidonemo Male 18-29
    9311 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 3:21 pm
    Wow...I...don`t really want to live anymore...either that or ascend to a higher plane and cast off physical needs.
  125. Profile photo of opiebreath
    opiebreath Female 18-29
    15782 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 3:55 pm
    If this is PETA, I`m going to hit kittens.
    With puppies.

    I have an ethical issue with PETA...

    Hole crap, and an hour and a half long videos. D:

  126. Profile photo of Assimilate13
    Assimilate13 Female 18-29
    134 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 3:59 pm
    "That`s Earth, deal with it" -- NO! How easy it is to say such things, completely dissociating from the horrors which face the inhabitants of this planet (human and animal). What a state we would be in if that were the attitude - Holocaust, deal with it; Theocracy, deal with it; Black Plague, deal with it. While humans are animals, we do seem to be unique in our nearly limitless ability to affect the world around us, to fundamentally alter our own existence and the earth itself. As beings with such unmitigated power, we have a responsibility to wield it with humility. Nature may be cruel and cold, but we have the CHOICE to reject that, to undo that which we`ve done and to aim towards a better life, for ourselves and for the other inhabitants of this planet. The choice is yours to make, but I reject the reality in which such venomous disregard for life abounds. Willful torture is not an unalterable fact, it stems from a decision and a world view.
  127. Profile photo of itsdrew
    itsdrew Male 13-17
    1112 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 4:24 pm
    ...too sad to watch...also, too long. but i bet its amazing and life changing...
  128. Profile photo of metalownsyou
    metalownsyou Male 18-29
    27 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 4:48 pm
    People disgust me.... it`s horrible to do things like this to animals....I don`t even want to LOOK at people that eat meat now so thank God I`m a vegetarian because otherwise I think I`d have to kill myself out of my own disappointment for mankind. It`s good that there was finally a documentary made on this subject, because it`s horrible to do things like this to ANYTHING. Humans are animals too but that gets overlooked all too often. I mean, really, how would YOU like things like this to happen to YOU?
  129. Profile photo of Victory7
    Victory7 Male 18-29
    362 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 5:30 pm
    Hey, we evolved faster, too bad slow pokes. Besides, we`re animals too. A couple of viewers mentioned it above, would a lion give two craps about how he kills his meat? Torture is something different, and anyone who tortures an animal before killing it obviously has some mental problems, and should be put down for society`s sake. But seriously, would you rather cut the throat and end it quickly? Or jump on the animal and rip it`s jugular out by your teeth, one pig at a time? No matter how you look at it, life just kinda sucks. And with that I`m going to eat a Triple Kingburger.
  130. Profile photo of Victory7
    Victory7 Male 18-29
    362 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 5:32 pm
    And wouldn`t lions do the same to us if they became hyper-advanced?
  131. Profile photo of Victory7
    Victory7 Male 18-29
    362 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 5:36 pm
    If humans are part of nature (ie, everything) wouldn`t that make eveyrthing we do natural? Also, in regards to buying meat at markets, why not just get rid of selling vegetables or anything else for that matter at stores? Grow your own corn you lazy SOB. Oh wait, we can`t all do that, that`s why we invented society.
  132. Profile photo of davidue123
    davidue123 Male 18-29
    4 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 5:46 pm
    Okay people let me use both scientific and of course religeous means to explain this great meat eating trend..fact 1 human kinds technology has avanced to a stage where population grows beyoun our means to controll it i dont care who wears rubbers why..secoundly..by what ive read froma few people..no humans are not vegitarian by nature..neither in science nor in religion..if humans were vegitatrians our jaws would not have the biteing power they do..nor would we have a need for sharp teeth..canines..incisors..ect..should human kind be more humane ..less productive in our means..yeah looks good on paper..is it truely feasable with the worlds human population..no..so who decides who dies of starvation an who doesnt..we cant feed the nations of the world with meat..take it away and you have the same problem..only diffrence..we would be over farming and totaly destroy our soil and have no plants to eat either..imagine that..should our mean be better yes..should it be quicker..more humane.
  133. Profile photo of davidue123
    davidue123 Male 18-29
    4 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 5:51 pm
    yes..should our governments watch and govern the indistries better ..absolutely..thats what this was about..nto whether or not you eat meat..that natural to eat meat ..unless you feel like liveing off iron suplements your entire life or licking rail tracks..lets face it people..life is cruel..life isnt pretty..look what man has done to our own kind over the centuries..we havent fixed those problems yet..there is still hate among religions..nations..cultures..now we are going to work on animals at the same time..yes its great to talka bout how you want to change something..God know i want alot of things about this world to change for the better..however..what i want and what is possible..that is sadly two diffrent things..so before i close i close with one thing that both agrees with and goes against this movie..by my personal religious belife.. "and man shall have dominion over beasts..he shall care for them..and they shall provide him his needs.." Genesis

    thank you

  134. Profile photo of Assimilate13
    Assimilate13 Female 18-29
    134 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 5:59 pm
    Wow davidue - I can hardly read that post... use spell check.

    All I have time to respond to is the assertion that humans are not "vegitarian by nature..neither in science nor in religion". Actually, there are several religions that call on their followers to maintain a vegetarian diet: Some forms of Hinduism and Buddhism, and especially Jainism. Also, there are many Jews and Christians who are vegetarian, due to the passage in Genesis that states that Adam and Eve were vegetarian before the Fall (Genesis 1:29-30).

  135. Profile photo of Assimilate13
    Assimilate13 Female 18-29
    134 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 6:00 pm
    Also:
    1. Dominion is not synonymous with Domination
    2. I`ve been veggie for 15+ years, and don`t take ANY supplements, and am extremely healthy.
  136. Profile photo of MyZZLeZ
    MyZZLeZ Male 18-29
    100 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 6:02 pm
    I hated this from the moment it started with their 3 stages of truth. Theres no way im sitting through this pretentious piece of poo for an hour and a half.
    Also, there is a strong, STRONG difference between slavery and animal abuse. In fact, it should be blatantly obvious.
  137. Profile photo of davidue123
    davidue123 Male 18-29
    4 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 6:06 pm
    spell check may be overrated..however.. i enjoy an oposing opinion..let me know at least some of mankind can still think for itself..and not be controled by media..i respect you opinion and respectfully have my own..as religiously the ebate between vegitarian and carnivor can go on forever..many times throughout the bible god set down laws for the eating of meat..no we are not vegitarian ..after our fall we had to find foo of our own provided by god in diffrent means..farming..hunting..gathering..but the sad fact remains no matter how i hate the treatment of animals..without them..somone will have to decide who will starve..and who shall not..for one way or another this planets reasourses ...animal..mineral..plant..shalla ll be consumed..for we lack the knowledge..drive..and insight to protect it..and consume it faster then we could ever produce it..

    *bows out to shower*

  138. Profile photo of Assimilate13
    Assimilate13 Female 18-29
    134 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 6:07 pm
    No one (not even this video) is saying that animal abuse and slavery are the same thing. The whole point is that this kind of cruelty is all part of the same SYSTEM. If you think that these two aspects of the visceral aggression of human beings are not related, well... I sincerely beg to differ. There is a direct connection between the way we treat the earth, animals, and other human beings. Psychologists have known this for the better part of half a century, at least. Perhaps the rest of us could do the world a favour and catch up.
  139. Profile photo of davidue123
    davidue123 Male 18-29
    4 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 6:17 pm
    oh one last thing before i run to work..for all you high and mighty vegitarians..not vegans..but vegitarians who watche this video and drink milk..i dont care what it says on the carton..jug..no man is sitting there milking the cows..let us not become sidetracked..and keep up the fight against abuse in all fashions..but do not extend it into all man should be vegitarian..
  140. Profile photo of Assimilate13
    Assimilate13 Female 18-29
    134 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 6:36 pm
    I just want to point out: I don`t think anyone in this whole forum has either said or insinuated that all people "should" be vegetarians. Thankfully, this discussion has avoided such hubristic moral determinism.
  141. Profile photo of jakeman203
    jakeman203 Male 18-29
    80 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 6:40 pm
    the video is stupid. I could care less about some damn animal. You dont see people complaining when surgeons cut up humans while they are alive sooooooooooooooooooooo what is the problem
  142. Profile photo of tis
    tis Female 18-29
    119 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 6:42 pm
    Well I cried for about an hour. I work with dogs for a living so the first 20 minutes was the most painful thing I`ve ever had to watch. Throughout the rest of the movie, I couldn`t help but see every one of those animals as some dog I`ve known or worked with. I know that there is an intellectual separation between man and animal, and perhaps a lot of these animals are too confused to truly understand what`s happening to them. However, they do suffer.. and confusion and disorientation is part of suffering. This all breaks my heart. Glad I don`t eat meat.
  143. Profile photo of ScytheofLuna
    ScytheofLuna Male 18-29
    33 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 7:20 pm
    Wow Jakeman, it seems you are not only ignorant but also heartless. It`s a far different thing to perform surgery on a CONSENTING human being with the benefit of anesthesia IN ORDER TO HELP THEM, than it is to slaughter an UNCONSENTING creature and let it bleed out while choking on it`s own blood for the sole purpose of FILLING A DESIRE. Let us be clear, that eating meat is not a need, it is a preference. We are painfully aware that callous, uncaring human beings like you exist, but your arrogant appraisal of things and your obvious lack of respect makes one question whether you have a soul. I often ask how can people be so cruel to each other, yet I suspect that you are evidence to the truth of what many human beings are: You are uncaring, unfeeling, and when faced with your own vile nature, you lash out. You are utterly beneath contempt.
  144. Profile photo of ScytheofLuna
    ScytheofLuna Male 18-29
    33 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 7:28 pm
    Davidue, I`m right there with you, except that cows and chickens do need to relieve themselves of milk and eggs. I personally don`t drink milk, but I do eat cruelty free eggs, and with a little research those who wish to drink cruelty free milk can do so as well. There are farms specifically designed so that the cows can go to be milked in a painless sanitary way, with no human or medical interference and the rest of the time they are left to wander free and unhindered. The machines are non invasive, and when the cows feel they need to be milked they walk up, do their business, and are off to graze. As someone pointed out, nobody here`s trying to convert carnivores. If some of you can watch that video start to finish and not feel a pang of guilt, that`s your business. You`ll have to forgive me personally though, if I feel as if I`ve perhaps taken an evolutionary step beyond you and grown a sense of compassion, and a conscience...
  145. Profile photo of ScytheofLuna
    ScytheofLuna Male 18-29
    33 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 7:33 pm
    But be honest. Say you eat meat because it tastes good, and that you don`t care if it`s wrong, or cruel, or unnecessary. Be honest about the fact that you don`t care that millions upon millions of sentient creatures are slaughtered yearly (the meat from half of which is wasted), and that billions of gallons of water are used in the factory farming industry, and that ton upon ton upon ton of waste is caused by this petty desire. Admit that you just don`t give a rat`s @ss like Jakeman, but please, don`t you dare try to construct an intellectual justification for all of it. It`s insulting, and it proves beyond any shadow of a doubt that you know you`re wrong, and that you`d sacrifice every shred of your dignity to convince yourself otherwise.
  146. Profile photo of arblesnarf22
    arblesnarf22 Male 18-29
    12 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 7:37 pm
    Coming from myslef a farmer, As always this video is an extreme view....With any video its skewed to make their point. Ex...thats not how cows are dehorned anymore...unless your from the 1950s.
  147. Profile photo of ScytheofLuna
    ScytheofLuna Male 18-29
    33 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 7:50 pm
    Uh, nice try arblesnarf, but do you work at a FACTORY FARM? For that matter, do you work at any farm other than your own? Have you done a nationwide farm tour highlighting the killing practices of American farmers? Are you a clairvoyant with detailed knowledge of the workings of every farm in existence? I think not. What you do at your own farm is one thing, and unless that film was shot in the 1950`s (which anyone with eyes can see is not the case) your statement is invalid, and is again an attempt to assuage your guilt or justify your choice of profession. Extreme view my @ss. Just because not EVERY farmer chooses to be cruel to their livestock does not negate fact that the vast majority of assembly line style factory farms are murderous and cruel. The opinion of one farmer hardly tips the scales when weighed against mountains of evidence to the contrary.
  148. Profile photo of ScytheofLuna
    ScytheofLuna Male 18-29
    33 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 7:56 pm
    Family farms and factory farms are not the same thing. You`ve missed the point. You`ve convinced yourself that you disagree without any consideration and thought whatsoever. You can`t see past your own narrow world view, or the fact that you like bacon and steak. I`ve seen the world folks, and some of you need to broaden your horizons and gain a little perspective on what`s important in life. Perhaps you should take some time away from the farm and get an education in something other than agriculture. Maybe take an ethics class or two. It`s so easy to immediately dismiss something like this, because then you can rest easy, and you don`t have to think about it anymore. It`s easy to be complacent. That doesn`t mean that it`s right.
  149. Profile photo of Kasu-Chan
    Kasu-Chan Female 18-29
    283 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 8:31 pm
    I got up to the gas chambers...

    I can`t watch any more. My dog is spayed, we did breed dogs when I was younger, and we took care and made sure we had adequate space for each and every one. We fed them, vaccinated them, cleaned them all, and every kennel in the shed was cleaned every couple of days.

    We bred German Shepherds for police work, trained them as well. Many of the police dogs in Southern Minnesota and Western Wisconsin have been from what my parents bred and trained.

  150. Profile photo of tkpb9381
    tkpb9381 Male 18-29
    293 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 9:11 pm
    I watched the whole thing this morning before work. Very compelling and sad... :(

    I`ve considered vegetarianism many times before, but never had the initiative to become one. Maybe now would be a good time...

    but but hamburgers is juicy goodness

    I`m rather torn right now

  151. Profile photo of BrotherBob
    BrotherBob Male 18-29
    16 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 9:17 pm
    I work in juvenile court. My reaction to some of the cases I see there on a daily basis is the same reaction this video elicited.

    I shake my head and get a little misty-eyed.

    Sometimes people just suck.

  152. Profile photo of thesandwich
    thesandwich Male 18-29
    150 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 9:20 pm
    okay true people are stupid and arrogant, true i only watched seven minutes of this for the fact it`s an hour and a half but the reason i stopped watching is cause it only took him 7 minutes to envoke Godwin`s law and if you expect me to sit and watch u can`t envoke it that quick

    (Godwin`s Law)
    Mike Godwin said in 1990:

    "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one."
    Frequently, a reference to Hitler is used as an evocation of evil. Thus a discussion proceeding on a positivist examination of facts is considered terminated when this objective consideration is transformed into a normative discussion of subjective right and wrong.

  153. Profile photo of Topo_Gego
    Topo_Gego Female 18-29
    10 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 9:35 pm
    I`m a lurker. As you can see from my post count, I rarely comment on IAB stuff, but I`m a frequent visiter.

    Today, however, I was compelled to make a comment. The sheer ignorance ans blase attitude of some of the people who replied to this video absolutely disgusts me.

    What is shwon in this video (had some of you taken the time to watch it) is by all means NOT "natural". Anyone who has taken a junior high biology course, with some common sense, can deduce that.

    This video is not condemning meat consumption. It is condemning the mass production of meat and how the animals are treated in the process. Lions do not mass produce gazelles. Lions do not torture their prey. Lions do not force gazelles into large factories, where they`re compounded together and forced to commit cannibalism. Lions to not doom gazelles into a miserable existence just for trivial self interest. What is shown in this video is not mother nature. What is shown in this video is a genocide.

  154. Profile photo of Topo_Gego
    Topo_Gego Female 18-29
    10 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 9:42 pm
    For anyone who actually watched the video, you CAN do something. Rather to feel sad for an hour or two, saying "human kind is so evil and terrible I hate us!", why not research this further?

    If you want to make an impact, perhaps opt for naturally grown meats and dairy products. If you want a pet, maybe get one from an animal shelter. Make sure to spay or neuter your pets. Use products that aren`t tested on animals.

    Then, do yourself a favour and read "Ishmael".

  155. Profile photo of arblesnarf22
    arblesnarf22 Male 18-29
    12 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 10:27 pm
    ScytheofLuna...Hmm...By the sound of it you are some type of farm cruelty expert...so I ask you, how many times have you been on a farm?...Would it be right for me to assume that you have taking all of your knowledge from videos such as this one? As for my own credibilty I have been on many farms, not mass beef production farms but I have been to large milk producing farms, and I have never anything like seen the kind of treatment this video shows.
  156. Profile photo of swtdreams285
    swtdreams285 Female 18-29
    1408 posts
    June 5, 2008 at 11:48 pm
    Oh God, I couldn`t stand watching those poor animals in the shelter... Guess I`ll finish it later...
  157. Profile photo of rodrigorenzo
    rodrigorenzo Male 18-29
    355 posts
    June 6, 2008 at 6:49 am
    Again:
    Can I make a stupid comparision? everyone here have watched "War of the worlds" with Tom Cruise, huh? Would you like to be harvested like that?
    I dont think so.
  158. Profile photo of ScytheofLuna
    ScytheofLuna Male 18-29
    33 posts
    June 6, 2008 at 7:02 am
    Well arblesnarf, as I stated previously, and as you`ve missed the point again, this film isn`t about family farms, it`s about factory farms. As somebody who has been passionate about these issues for nearly a decade I`ve done lots of research, and while I don`t have a huge travel budget at this point to visit individual farms I(my wife is working on her Ph.D.), you assume too much in your suggestion that my feelings on this issue are based solely on watching videos. You`ve been to other farms, and in your meager travels you haven`t happened to have encountered this behaviour. Big surprise.
  159. Profile photo of ScytheofLuna
    ScytheofLuna Male 18-29
    33 posts
    June 6, 2008 at 7:03 am
    These large scale operations at large scale assembly lines are not going to take the time and care to ensure that each individual animal is sent into oblivion without pain. As far as they`re concerned these creatures are a product. Just because many family farms, or local farmers may not engage in these practices does not negate the vast majority of FACTORY F#ING FARMS THAT DO.
  160. Profile photo of ScytheofLuna
    ScytheofLuna Male 18-29
    33 posts
    June 6, 2008 at 7:04 am
    It also occurs to me that someone with your obvious limits in terms of interest or concern would hardly seek out factual information on this topic. I doubt you`ve done any actual research on the subject, and so you waltz in here with your limited perception, limited experience to school us with "oh, I`m a farmer and I don`t do that."
    Well, good for you pal, but you ain`t everybody.
    But again, you`re only seeing part of the picture. Unless these animals are lining up to be happily subjugated and dominated by us, we are making those choices for them. You make your living with the assumption that we are better than animals and therefore have the right to choose for them.
    And just for the record, in case you aren`t clever enough to deduce this for yourself, people who engage in such practices as dehorning live animals would hardly behave that way with company present. People tend to be on their best behaviour when others are around, no?
  161. Profile photo of ScytheofLuna
    ScytheofLuna Male 18-29
    33 posts
    June 6, 2008 at 7:10 am
    And yeah, arblesnarf when I was confronted with the full magnitude of what it meant to eat a steak, I wanted to do some research before making a life changing decision like deciding to not eat meat or purchase products that are derived from cruel behaviour. That hardly makes me an expert, but I do that with everything I consume as an individual. I don`t buy products that are derived from child labour, I buy fair trade chocolate and coffee, and I think about every action I take as a human being, and how those actions affect the world I inhabit. Can you say the same?
  162. Profile photo of arblesnarf22
    arblesnarf22 Male 18-29
    12 posts
    June 6, 2008 at 8:31 am
    So I was right when I assumed that you have never been on a farm nor have you ever look at information from the other side of the argument. You my friend are an extremist, taking a position an never looking back. I myself have done college research projects on being vegetarian, and how the farming industry abuses some animals and pollutes the land. But being a farmer, Yes I have traveled to other farms and Conventions about the business...(not on my meager wages, Have you seen the price of corn..lol) I just want people to know that in my opinion this video show only the most horrible acts and wants you to believe that this happens everywhere, which it does not.
  163. Profile photo of Vagrant86
    Vagrant86 Male 18-29
    2557 posts
    June 6, 2008 at 8:34 am
    Awesome video, great gore pic`s I lol`d hard. Thanks
  164. Profile photo of Vagrant86
    Vagrant86 Male 18-29
    2557 posts
    June 6, 2008 at 8:40 am
    K lol i was just kidding. Yeah i know this stuff happens and it does suck. But there isn`t much we can do about it now can we? This video is useless because it just whines about it. And doesn`t offer a solution.
  165. Profile photo of alexguest
    alexguest Male 13-17
    108 posts
    June 6, 2008 at 8:50 am
    @arblesnarf: The fact that this video may portray an extremity does not make it acceptable. It doesn`t matter if this happens everywhere or not, from the moment that it happens anywhere, it is wrong.

    Another point, to anyone who may support this treatment for whatever reason: Where do we draw the line between product and being?

  166. Profile photo of Assimilate13
    Assimilate13 Female 18-29
    134 posts
    June 6, 2008 at 10:35 am
    First off, alexquest - you are absolutely right. It doesn`t matter whether these are extreme circumstances or not, whenever and wherever this happens, it is wrong. Period.

    Second, arblesnarf - "I just want people to know that in my opinion this video show only the most horrible acts and wants you to believe that this happens everywhere, which it does not." Did you even actually read scytheofluna`s post? Isn`t this almost exactly what he said?? Not all farms commit these atrocities. Most family farms do things entirely differently. FACTORY FARMS (which are, after all, the subject we are debating) operate in an entirely different way. There is a huge difference between a family farm which only slaughters when necessary, and a factory farm whose sole purpose is to slaughter thousands of animals, sick or healthy, needed or not, every single day. This is MECHANIZED EXTERMINATION, which is an entirely different arena than local production and consumption.

  167. Profile photo of Assimilate13
    Assimilate13 Female 18-29
    134 posts
    June 6, 2008 at 10:41 am
    Also, how can you call scytheofluna an extremist for having convictions and sticking to them? If he were an extremist, he`d be calling you a horrible person for eating meat, a murderer for being a farmer, and a fascist for contradicting his views. None of these, however, are the case. He is arguing a point, and you commence with name-calling. Your accusation is completely unfounded and indefensible, imo.
  168. Profile photo of ScytheofLuna
    ScytheofLuna Male 18-29
    33 posts
    June 6, 2008 at 10:59 am
    Wow, well said assimilate. Calling people extremists for being compassionate is all too common. I`d rather err on the side of extreme compassion than the alternative. I find it somewhat amusing albeit sad when people are so desperate to defend an archaic mindset. Ignorance is bliss, I suppose, and it`s utterly painful for those of us who aren`t ignorant to watch the rest of the world cling to these kinds of sad ideas.

    As for the question as to where we draw the line between product and being: IF IT HAS EYES, A HEART, A BRAIN, IF IT BLEEDS OR CRIES OUT IN FEAR, OR BELLOWS IN PAIN WHEN WOUNDED IT`S NOT FOOD IT`S NOT A DAMNED PRODUCT, IT`S ALIVE, IT IS SENTIENT. If that`s too complex a notion for you, maybe YOU`RE the extremist. How much evidence, how many studies exploring the cognitive ability of a variety of animals must be brought forth before people will acknowledge this? Such evidence could be compiled until the sun collapses and I doubt it would be enough to persuade...

  169. Profile photo of ScytheofLuna
    ScytheofLuna Male 18-29
    33 posts
    June 6, 2008 at 11:04 am
    ...the vast majority of people. People are far too selfish to look beyond their own petty desires. Convenience is the mother of stagnation. We have stagnated as a species, and the impact we have on the world we live in and the creatures we share it with has become more and more destructive. Rather than being benign custodians, responsible stewards of the earth, using the advantages we have in ingenuity for something positive, we have sought to dominate, to subjugate, and to enslave.
  170. Profile photo of ScytheofLuna
    ScytheofLuna Male 18-29
    33 posts
    June 6, 2008 at 11:14 am
    Also arblesnarf, you utterly failed to address my conclusion that perhaps when other farms are expecting visitors they would in all likelihood be on their best behaviour. Do you honestly think such atrocities would be put on display for visitors? Are you really so naive, or have you conveniently neglected to address that issue because you know the truth and can`t deal with it? In the rare instances that this kind of footage gets out to the public it`s from HIDDEN CAMERAS genius. They`re not going to show that stuff willingly, and farmers aren`t going to do a rush job on slaughter in front of other farmers anymore than a store manager would berate his employees when the district manager is visiting. Do you fart at the dinner table when you have guests? As for seeing things from one point of view and never looking back, you`re right, I am a forward thinker, I became a vegetarian at age 20, and there has been nothing in my life to suggest I made the wrong decision.
  171. Profile photo of ScytheofLuna
    ScytheofLuna Male 18-29
    33 posts
    June 6, 2008 at 11:18 am
    Vagrant the solution is simple, STOP DOING IT!, STOP PARTICIPATING IN THE CYCLE OF CRUELTY! it`s not complicated in the least. You`re just lazy, and that`s not a personal attack. Most people are lazy. It`s easier to say, "Well, f*ck it it`s too hard a problem to solve, so I give up". This is why we are likely to be doomed as a species, because we just can`t be bothered to work for something larger than ourselves.
  172. Profile photo of Assimilate13
    Assimilate13 Female 18-29
    134 posts
    June 6, 2008 at 1:14 pm
    Topo_Gego: everyone (myself included) has been so wrapped up in defending their own arguments that little time has been taken to acknowledge the positive things that have been said, or things that each of us personally agree with. So, I just wanted to take a minute and thank you for your posts. They were well stated, and made very good points. If one truly wants to opt out of the system created for us, which this film depicts, education is ABSOLUTELY a requirement. With the knowledge gained, each of us is of course entitled to make our own decisions, but at least they are EDUCATED decisions.
    Thank you very much for making a rare visit, and for your very valid points.
  173. Profile photo of maneaterx3
    maneaterx3 Female 13-17
    488 posts
    June 6, 2008 at 3:21 pm
    for all you guys that don`t want to watch this because you want to be entertained, you are exactly the reason why the world is becoming the way it is. i won`t get into it now.
    i`m not a vegetarian or a vegan. never have been. but after seeing this movie i`ve seen things that i knew were happening, but was denying - and seeing it on the screen really opened up my eyes. i`m gonna go hug my dog now =(
  174. Profile photo of RecycleElf
    RecycleElf Male 18-29
    3622 posts
    June 6, 2008 at 3:25 pm

    |-(this made me shed a tear, not allot of documentarys does that to me ;-/


    the strong should look after the weaker.
    B-|

    ever thought about... all these people here that say this is awefull (I agree) what if you guys where politics? if you all thousand of you shared the presidents chair, would you have made a change? would you sit there and watch the entire mean personry crash becous of how its already living on the efficensy of this treatment/slaughter?

    some people would, but seriusly... its not easy just changing stuff that will affect the electors opinion of you becous you took away their jobs and income.

    I`m all for this to stop. i would want to see the world go under and let room for a super force conrtolled by the people to emerge and do something about this.
    I live on a farm and after watching thisd I think my animals are doing all right :P

  175. Profile photo of arblesnarf22
    arblesnarf22 Male 18-29
    12 posts
    June 6, 2008 at 3:38 pm
    I`m going to stick with calling you an extremist, for the fact that I believe I could put all the information in the world in front of you that not all animals on "Factory farms" are treated like this and you would still not acknowledge it....Therefore making you an extremist. I live in an area where farming is the norm, I have been to production pig farms and also to production Chicken egg farms, NEVER seen anything like this...and trust me, they don`t hide anything because they don`t have too. Still you have provided no info or credibility on this subject....I can most certainly say like before that you have taken all of your information from videos such as this one. Also... not a fan of you talking down to me.
  176. Profile photo of Assimilate13
    Assimilate13 Female 18-29
    134 posts
    June 6, 2008 at 4:05 pm
    http://www.hsus.org/farm/
    &
    http://www.hsus.org/farm/news/ournews/un...
    -- From the fraking HUMANE SOCIETY (hardly "extremists")

    http://www.farmsanctuary.org/issues/fact...
    -- Check out the photos and videos sections

    http://www.mercyforanimals.org/dairy_and...

    http://www.animalaid.org.uk/h/n/CAMPAIGN...
    -- There`s a bunch of info under "Key Resources"

    http://www.factoryfarming.org.uk/
    -- Another one from the UK

    http://www.naturalnews.co

  177. Profile photo of Assimilate13
    Assimilate13 Female 18-29
    134 posts
    June 6, 2008 at 4:06 pm
    http://www.naturalnews.com/022702.html
    -- A nice video for you

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CaHXA1LLB...
    -- Just searching "factory farming" on youtube gets you 733 videos

    http://www.sustainabletable.org/issues/f...

    http://www.hfa.org/factory/index.html
    -- The Humane Farming Association discusses not only animal welfare, but the harm done to family farms by factory farming

  178. Profile photo of Assimilate13
    Assimilate13 Female 18-29
    134 posts
    June 6, 2008 at 4:06 pm
    http://www.centerforfoodsafety.org/pubs/...
    -- From the Center for Food Safety

    http://www.associatedcontent.com/article...

    http://www.all-creatures.org/articles/en...
    -- On the environmental impact of factory farming

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/con...

    http://www.sierraclub.org/factoryfarms/

    http://www.cwac.net/factory_farms/index....
    -- This one has a good dozen+ links to other sites as well.

    NOTE: Not a single one of

  179. Profile photo of Assimilate13
    Assimilate13 Female 18-29
    134 posts
    June 6, 2008 at 4:07 pm
    <cont`d> these is from PETA.


    Is that enough research???

  180. Profile photo of orchydork
    orchydork Female 18-29
    406 posts
    June 6, 2008 at 4:21 pm
    I was moved by this, and now I feel I should do something about it...like possibly look into going vegan. Yeesh.
  181. Profile photo of ScytheofLuna
    ScytheofLuna Male 18-29
    33 posts
    June 6, 2008 at 4:23 pm
    Damn, Assimilate beat me to the punch. `Saved me from doing a bunch of cutting and pasting myself.

    However given the rather thread-narrow mindedness that arble has demonstrated I think each and every one of us could bury him under a mountain of such evidence, and he`d continue with the same weak arguments and half @ssed justifications.

    As for evidence of your own. YOU HAVEN`T PROVIDED ANY, aside from personal experience and nonsense about how these places have nothing to hide. And as I`ve already stated in plain English, not all farms partake in such behaviour. Let me reiterate so that it has a chance of sinking into your seemingly teflon brain. NOT ALL FARMS SUBSCRIBE TO SUCH CRUEL BEHAVIOUR. Your utter denial that many and most do is laughable. And I`m sorry if you think I`m talking down to you, but when addressing someone who`s so completely naive, I can`t help it. You and your ilk ethical and moral dinosaurs.

  182. Profile photo of ScytheofLuna
    ScytheofLuna Male 18-29
    33 posts
    June 6, 2008 at 4:31 pm
    Oh, and just for the sake of providing some personal experience to throw into the mix my wife prior to becoming a vegetarian WORKED AT A MEAT PACKING PLANT, and has seen some of these horrors first hand. You really need to lay off the assumptions.

    Check out some of the stuff Assimilate posted. I can`t bear to watch it anymore, but I`ve seen more than enough through the years in vain attempts to beat people like you over the head with the truth.
    I`m beyond trying to spare people`s feelings on this subject anymore. People used to think that the world was flat, and that it was okay to treat women and minorities as lesser peoples, and it is my strong belief that humanity`s treatment of animals is just as backward, just as wrong, and just as sad. If you think you`re the first person to try and change my mind with a bunch of petty justifications and denials, you`re sadly mistaken.
    The fact that you assume that this industry has nothing to hide is a joke.

  183. Profile photo of domisgood
    domisgood Male 18-29
    4868 posts
    June 6, 2008 at 4:36 pm
    how does that unbore me?

    yh what we humans do aint pretty but we do it to survive

  184. Profile photo of ScytheofLuna
    ScytheofLuna Male 18-29
    33 posts
    June 6, 2008 at 4:36 pm
    Jesus, I lied, just to ensure my point is being well proven, I checked a couple of Assimilate`s references, and now I feel ill. Check out some of the stuff from Youtube. If you can spout that kind of rhetoric in the face of all of that, you`re seriously out of touch with reality, and can hardly come close to being taken seriously. If you don`t want people to talk down to you, evolve already.
  185. Profile photo of ScytheofLuna
    ScytheofLuna Male 18-29
    33 posts
    June 6, 2008 at 4:43 pm
    DOMISGOOD We`ve already covered the survival issue people don`t need to eat meat to survive. Try READING THE OTHER POSTS before posting an idiotic comment like that and making an ass out of yourself.
  186. Profile photo of Assimilate13
    Assimilate13 Female 18-29
    134 posts
    June 6, 2008 at 5:00 pm
    I just want to add emphasis to a point scytheofluna just made: no one has said that you, personally, are horrible because you work on a farm, arblesnarf. No one has said that you MUST be a vegetarian to be an ethical human being. I know plenty of wonderful people, including almost every member of my family, who choose to eat meat. I still love them all the same. HOWEVER, they are all EDUCATED consumers, who admit the cruelty that comes from these kinds of mass-farming operations, and strive to buy humane products whenever possible. While I strongly disagree with scytheofluna`s way of speaking to people in this thread, I sincerely understand his frustration - I used to be much the same way. Talking down to people will get you nowhere. But I think the whole point of his posts is to ask people to THINK about what they are consuming, and where it comes from. There are other ways - and vegetarianism is not the only option (even though it is my personal choice).
  187. Profile photo of juliakiwi
    juliakiwi Female 13-17
    39 posts
    June 6, 2008 at 6:06 pm
    the part with the cow at kosher in the beginning is a bit too much for me.....i dont really want to watch anymore of that then i already have.
    if anyone watched this video and thought that it wasnt cruel, then your sick.
    i understand that meat is good and all, but those poor things should be killed quicky so that they dont have to suffer so much.
    HAVE SOME MERCY, geez :(
  188. Profile photo of eggsnham
    eggsnham Male 13-17
    1140 posts
    June 6, 2008 at 6:49 pm
    one thing i dont get is that they tell me (us) that it is among our best interests to love and respect "ol` fido" as much as we can and then they turn around and say you know what why dont we just cut fido`s balls off cuz its very humane and makes him feel respected now doesn`t it. and now i question the antics of using gas chambers to "euthanize" dogs.
  189. Profile photo of hooray4hazel
    hooray4hazel Female 13-17
    255 posts
    June 6, 2008 at 7:30 pm
    Someone had to say it. -dies-
  190. Profile photo of LLord
    LLord Male 18-29
    26 posts
    June 6, 2008 at 7:39 pm
    The film was depressing yet beautiful all at once. Thanks for the post!
  191. Profile photo of AlishaLovesU
    AlishaLovesU Female 13-17
    88 posts
    June 6, 2008 at 8:28 pm
    I watched the whole thing. To those of you who said f*ck this, why don`t you try actually watching it instead of lurking around on some porn site. I see why people say this is life, but they could find a way to not do it as bad, and find a cleaner way. This movie make A LOT of sense to me. If you haven`t watched it already, please, I suggest you to do so.
  192. Profile photo of citadel
    citadel Male 18-29
    486 posts
    June 7, 2008 at 12:12 am
    just wow i actully sat and watched all of it, i still hate dogs but um some of these things are just fcked up im admitadly not eating poultry any more meat ill eat but iunno mixed emotions about this one
  193. Profile photo of skipidydooda
    skipidydooda Male 13-17
    178 posts
    June 7, 2008 at 6:21 pm
    when is god going to smite us all down?
  194. Profile photo of Ginngerale
    Ginngerale Male 13-17
    2 posts
    June 7, 2008 at 10:26 pm
    The monotone managed to make me lose the empathy it had going on during the "pets" chapter. As to how they kill the animals, it`s a dirty job; but I don`t think a zebra dies immediately after the lion bites it. It`s eaten alive and more or less bleeds to death. We just have a different way of doing it, and as a country, in the US, try to make regulations to limit animal suffering. Integrity, of course, plays a role in this. Still, I couldn`t help but get hungry during the food part, albeit I feel for it.
  195. Profile photo of Crystal949
    Crystal949 Female 13-17
    246 posts
    June 10, 2008 at 2:18 pm
    I watched the first part and most of the second part, then i skipped here and there through the rest. I have rewritten what I want to say several times, some more passionate than others, but I`m just going to stick with this: that was really sad ;(
  196. Profile photo of MrGrowley
    MrGrowley Female 13-17
    120 posts
    September 20, 2008 at 1:53 pm
    Arblesnarf, maybe they DO hide things, and maybe they need to hide things, such as oh... When they bring the cattle in. It`s FILTHY in those trucks. I bet you didn`t see all of the freaking factory!
    I couldn`t watch it all. It was way too sad

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