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yh what we humans do aint pretty but we do it to survive
Check out some of the stuff Assimilate posted. I can`t bear to watch it anymore, but I`ve seen more than enough through the years in vain attempts to beat people like you over the head with the truth. I`m beyond trying to spare people`s feelings on this subject anymore. People used to think that the world was flat, and that it was okay to treat women and minorities as lesser peoples, and it is my strong belief that humanity`s treatment of animals is just as backward, just as wrong, and just as sad. If you think you`re the first person to try and change my mind with a bunch of petty justifications and denials, you`re sadly mistaken.The fact that you assume that this industry has nothing to hide is a joke.
However given the rather thread-narrow mindedness that arble has demonstrated I think each and every one of us could bury him under a mountain of such evidence, and he`d continue with the same weak arguments and half @ssed justifications.
As for evidence of your own. YOU HAVEN`T PROVIDED ANY, aside from personal experience and nonsense about how these places have nothing to hide. And as I`ve already stated in plain English, not all farms partake in such behaviour. Let me reiterate so that it has a chance of sinking into your seemingly teflon brain. NOT ALL FARMS SUBSCRIBE TO SUCH CRUEL BEHAVIOUR. Your utter denial that many and most do is laughable. And I`m sorry if you think I`m talking down to you, but when addressing someone who`s so completely naive, I can`t help it. You and your ilk ethical and moral dinosaurs.
Is that enough research???
http://www.all-creatures.org/articles/en...-- On the environmental impact of factory farming
http://www.cwac.net/factory_farms/index.... -- This one has a good dozen+ links to other sites as well.
NOTE: Not a single one of
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CaHXA1LLB... -- Just searching "factory farming" on youtube gets you 733 videos
http://www.hfa.org/factory/index.html -- The Humane Farming Association discusses not only animal welfare, but the harm done to family farms by factory farming
http://www.farmsanctuary.org/issues/fact... -- Check out the photos and videos sections
http://www.animalaid.org.uk/h/n/CAMPAIGN... -- There`s a bunch of info under "Key Resources"
http://www.factoryfarming.org.uk/ -- Another one from the UK
the strong should look after the weaker.B-|
ever thought about... all these people here that say this is awefull (I agree) what if you guys where politics? if you all thousand of you shared the presidents chair, would you have made a change? would you sit there and watch the entire mean personry crash becous of how its already living on the efficensy of this treatment/slaughter?
some people would, but seriusly... its not easy just changing stuff that will affect the electors opinion of you becous you took away their jobs and income.
I`m all for this to stop. i would want to see the world go under and let room for a super force conrtolled by the people to emerge and do something about this.I live on a farm and after watching thisd I think my animals are doing all right :P
As for the question as to where we draw the line between product and being: IF IT HAS EYES, A HEART, A BRAIN, IF IT BLEEDS OR CRIES OUT IN FEAR, OR BELLOWS IN PAIN WHEN WOUNDED IT`S NOT FOOD IT`S NOT A DAMNED PRODUCT, IT`S ALIVE, IT IS SENTIENT. If that`s too complex a notion for you, maybe YOU`RE the extremist. How much evidence, how many studies exploring the cognitive ability of a variety of animals must be brought forth before people will acknowledge this? Such evidence could be compiled until the sun collapses and I doubt it would be enough to persuade...
Second, arblesnarf - "I just want people to know that in my opinion this video show only the most horrible acts and wants you to believe that this happens everywhere, which it does not." Did you even actually read scytheofluna`s post? Isn`t this almost exactly what he said?? Not all farms commit these atrocities. Most family farms do things entirely differently. FACTORY FARMS (which are, after all, the subject we are debating) operate in an entirely different way. There is a huge difference between a family farm which only slaughters when necessary, and a factory farm whose sole purpose is to slaughter thousands of animals, sick or healthy, needed or not, every single day. This is MECHANIZED EXTERMINATION, which is an entirely different arena than local production and consumption.
Another point, to anyone who may support this treatment for whatever reason: Where do we draw the line between product and being?
If you want to make an impact, perhaps opt for naturally grown meats and dairy products. If you want a pet, maybe get one from an animal shelter. Make sure to spay or neuter your pets. Use products that aren`t tested on animals.
Then, do yourself a favour and read "Ishmael".
Today, however, I was compelled to make a comment. The sheer ignorance ans blase attitude of some of the people who replied to this video absolutely disgusts me.
What is shwon in this video (had some of you taken the time to watch it) is by all means NOT "natural". Anyone who has taken a junior high biology course, with some common sense, can deduce that.
This video is not condemning meat consumption. It is condemning the mass production of meat and how the animals are treated in the process. Lions do not mass produce gazelles. Lions do not torture their prey. Lions do not force gazelles into large factories, where they`re compounded together and forced to commit cannibalism. Lions to not doom gazelles into a miserable existence just for trivial self interest. What is shown in this video is not mother nature. What is shown in this video is a genocide.
(Godwin`s Law)Mike Godwin said in 1990:
"As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one." Frequently, a reference to Hitler is used as an evocation of evil. Thus a discussion proceeding on a positivist examination of facts is considered terminated when this objective consideration is transformed into a normative discussion of subjective right and wrong.
I shake my head and get a little misty-eyed.
Sometimes people just suck.
I`ve considered vegetarianism many times before, but never had the initiative to become one. Maybe now would be a good time...
but but hamburgers is juicy goodness
I`m rather torn right now
I can`t watch any more. My dog is spayed, we did breed dogs when I was younger, and we took care and made sure we had adequate space for each and every one. We fed them, vaccinated them, cleaned them all, and every kennel in the shed was cleaned every couple of days.
We bred German Shepherds for police work, trained them as well. Many of the police dogs in Southern Minnesota and Western Wisconsin have been from what my parents bred and trained.
*bows out to shower*
All I have time to respond to is the assertion that humans are not "vegitarian by nature..neither in science nor in religion". Actually, there are several religions that call on their followers to maintain a vegetarian diet: Some forms of Hinduism and Buddhism, and especially Jainism. Also, there are many Jews and Christians who are vegetarian, due to the passage in Genesis that states that Adam and Eve were vegetarian before the Fall (Genesis 1:29-30).
I have an ethical issue with PETA...
Hole crap, and an hour and a half long videos. D:
Going to the market to get a steak is, perhaps, the ultimate symbol of how lazy and sad the human race has become. We`re so dependent on huge corporations to give us what we want that we don`t give a flying f*ck what is done to get it.
Hunting is permissible. The mass murder of animals is not.
End of story.
I understand that the point of the film was to make people angry... and I won`t lie, I`m very angry. Yet it is going to take so much more than one person`s anger to change a multi-billion dollar industry. It`s no different than oil or fast food or mega-retailers: they like their money and they will do anything to continue obtaining it.
Seriously... people need to wake up, take the silver spoons out of their mouths, and take a long, hard gander at all of the horrible things that they are accomplice to EVERY SINGLE DAY.
Not part of the solution? Then you`re part of the problem.<
No, I didn`t watch the movie. Yes, I do know where my food comes from.
Not only do i now want to become a vegetarian, I now hope for a massive pandemic to wipe out a good 5 billion people... They all need to simply die. Oh how i wish for nature`s revenge to be swift and powerful, a nice biblical plague would do the planet well."
If you seriously think this, you are no worse than every single person practicing cruelty to those animals in the video.
Some humans actions can be reprehensible, but unlike what you wish for, mass-genocide isn`t the answer.
You`re about the least progressive person on the planet.
and yes, money is the root of all evil.
*dusts off hands, grabs car keys*
Anyone else fancy a Big Mac?
animals take what they need, whereas humans take everything they want. and selfishlssly give back with cruelties, as mentioned in this documentary, and other ways.. such as environmental pollution, destruction and ruining.
i hate being reminded of how cruel our race is, but one voice is hard to hear.
Ultrawolf - If I needed to kill to eat, I would, however, living in London, it`s quite hard to find any animals to kill, but I don`t need to.
Vindicate - If Lions took over somehow, and managed to put us in the place where the cows and pigs are, we`d probably do the same thing as them; not try and rebel. They managed to overpower us, the only reason animals don`t try and rebel is because they are scared of getting hurt. The only reason why most of us are still surviving is because of the weaponry and technology we have. How did we get that (or rather, how did those who built it make them?) through smarts, and the classic opposable thumb. We were once the victors of the...
do lions lock zebras up in cages and torment them day in and day out, hit and bring them pain every silgle day for the rest of their lives?
Not only do i now want to become a vegetarian, I now hope for a massive pandemic to wipe out a good 5 billion people... They all need to simply die. Oh how i wish for nature`s revenge to be swift and powerful, a nice biblical plague would do the planet well.
Your meat doesn`t come from trees. Either learn to not give a poo or do something about it. I`m tired of people feeling sad about poo and having sympathy for causes for fifteen minutes before forgetting about it.
I, of course, am not blameless. I eat meat. Except for pork, but that`s just cause I found out how unbelievably intelligent and emotional pigs are.I ramble.
To say we`re anything more would defy evolution! You can`t have it both ways!
"i don`t know if you have morals or believe in god or are a naturalist or w/e...but you can`t say slaughter houses are helping us in any way"
For the record, I am a Christian that loves to play devil`s advocate in debates. My point in this, however, is that the video makes claims about how "we all evolved together" etc to drive home a fraternal love. However, to say that something is unnatural, speaking from a strictly naturalistic philosophy, is contradictory. If we all evolved, then everything about us, for better for worse, is perfectly natural.
Sure it is. It`s a testament to my species` ingenuity, which is a survival trait that allowed us to dominate the earth.
"did u see in the video how we are destroying our planet by our desire for copious amounts of meat?"
Destroying our planet for meat? Seriously? If that`s truly the case, then forget the carbon tax, let`s put away anyone who eats a steak for bioterroism!
"what is natural about a species killing itself and its planet?"
As I`ve said, if you don`t believe in anything beyond the natural, then EVERYTHING is natural!
"morals and values are a higher forms intelligence that arose from our increased intellect"
So, would you say there are moral absolutes? If so, on what basis?
It`s not about eating meat, folks. It`s about the strain mass-production has put upon the environment and balance of life.
Nothing wrong eating what YOU kill yourself. Humanity has just become lazy and a lot of waste has come from it. When the animals are gone and their meat products are abolished. Where are you going to find the meat? Humans =D
Eating meat isn`t 100% essential - you can get protein from other sources. But comparing it to nature isn`t too accurate either. Humans were hunter/gatherers. They preferred meat, but didn`t always get it, so the diet predominantly what they gathered. It`s with the mass production of meat that we can have meat at every meal.
Videos like this make me ill. Remind me too much of the video with the Chinese lady squishing animals, which then reminds me of putting my dog down. So I don`t want to watch it because I`ll be depressed for, like, a week.
In the end, humans are terrible little beasties.
ALSO, to the person saying not all slaughterhouses are like that, THEY ARE. These are "STANDARD INDUSTRY PRACTICES", okay? Do you understand what that means? That means that it is not just random acts of cruelty, but the way they are trained to do their jobs. They are trained to de-horn cattle, to de-beak fowl, and to incompetently slit their throats. That`s just the way they do it.
(Sorry to be so manic, but the fact that people can watch something like this (if they even bothered) and come away only hearing one thing that personally offends THEM and miss the entire message is just further indicative of what a disgusting species we
To all the people bitching about `eating meat is natural` blah blah blah. That`s fine if that`s what you believe, BUT the point of this movie is not to shame you into vegetarianism, it`s to get you to actually THINK about what you`re eating. What a crazy thought eh? If you`re such a slave to meat, then how about supporting meat suppliers who treat tehir animals "humanely" (if that`s even possible to do to a creature you will soon murder..) and boycotting large-scale businesses that cater only to their profits at the expense of their products.
Also, whoever brought up starving children in Africa and whatnot, what are YOU doing personally to help them? Nothing? Oh, I thought so. And even if you were doing something, why does that make it okay to ignore any other suffering going o
what is natural about a species killing itself and its planet?
morals and values are a higher forms intelligence that arose from our increased intellect
to dumb us down to mere beast who say "meat good!" takes away from our standing as the most intelligent being
i don`t know if you have morals or believe in god or are a naturalist or w/e...but you can`t say slaughter houses are helping us in any way
I have been a vegetarian for over 15 years, and am not sickly or lacking in protein or any other essential nutrients. I am a vegetarian by choice, but appreciate everyone`s right to determine their own ethics. However, if you are going to eat meat, have pets, etc, you should at least be educated as to the source of your pleasures (and I would say the same of all potentially cruel products and vices).
I don`t believe in god. I don`t believe in heaven or hell. But if these things and places do exist, we are all damned for our treatment of our fellow beings.
The behaviors shown in this video are shameful, but unfortunately, no surprise.
I`ve never understood how people can be so cruel to something that`s about to die to feed them. It made me cry to see all those pet dogs and cats die lonely and unloved.
Like everyone said above - everyone should watch this entire video.
If you don`t believe in anything beyond the natural, what basis do you have for any absolute moral code. Emphasis on the absolute there. I`m not saying you can`t be moral without a belief in a god, but if you don`t believe in objective absolutes, you`re left with subjective conventions. And conventions, by definition, are conventional. You may think that the slaughter of animals in unnecessary, but obviously not everyone shares that view. What basis do you have for claiming that your philosophical and moral views are superior to mine or those of anyone else?
yes you can say "nuff said" or "humans are animals" but in saying that you also say that you are willing to give up your higher moral values...and therefore devolve
What`s the video about? It`s about animals being unrightfully treated. Alot of us do care about the children starving in africa, enslavement and child abuse, but we`re talking about what we`ve just seen. Hard to understand, I`m sure.
Also, that is just seriously awful, and hard to watch. I can only watch half now as I must go to work shortly. It probably really effected me since I work at a pet shop. :S
I don`t have a problem with eating meat and in most cases how its produced. When its torture there`s a problem and I will boycott the supplier not an entire diet.
But some people do want to boycott the diet and that`s their right to do. I just personally can`t stand when vegans and vegetarians constantly badger me to change my eating habits.
Nonetheless, I didn`t watch the movie because I know it wouldn`t change my mind and I`m already aware of the evils in some sectors of food production.
yah we need meat to function properly but do we have to kill the animals in such a way that it is like we are laughing in their faces as we kill them
another thing is why cant we have more nonkill shelters for animals
This is the time for change so why not start here.
If you put a human and a lion face to face, one of you is going to die.
Killing simply to kill, racism, sexism, slavery, etc...are in no way close to being related to killing animals for food.
All things should be treated well in all situations in life. We`ll all be eating lab created meat not too long into the future anyway, heheh.
Wow, where are you from anyhow? Humans are not animals you dolt! Humans are Human and animals are animals, DUH! Do animals go out and get a job? Do animals go grocery shopping and take their kids to daycare? Do animals wear clothes? I could go on and on!! I would have to say that you are very ignorant. Yes we eat meat its part of the carnivorous side of being human (and yes there are Vegan`s too, don`t get all twisted) BUT animals in the wild have natural instincts to go hunt for their food. They don`t need humans going around taking their skins so they can look good. Its wrong, brutal and horrifying. I wonder what a cow or fox or any other animal would look like wear YOUR skin?? Think about it. Domesticated animals rely on us for their well being. If they are put to slaughter at least treat them with dignity.
I`m a vegetarian, and I agree eating meat is natural, but some slaughterhouses are downright barbaric. Some people may not care, but I`m sure they would if another superior species evolved and started eating us the same way, before skinning us alive. On second thought, that`s pretty creepy.
Conclusion: Eating meat is unnatural.Support:It`s not natural for humans to wear clothes. (True)It`s not natural for humans to read and write. (I beg to differ, but not fallacious)Everything a human does is not natural. (Fallacy)
Hooray for my philosophy class freshman year of college! I won`t delete my second post on this thread because it is good for people here to know what a straw man is before they use one.
Man, I wish there was something for me to do at work...
andohondae, please don`t set up straw men. Find better ways to knock down arguments.
Even though I support the use of animals by humans, I find that cruelty is simply unjustified. Such acts lie in the realm of sickness and sadism rather than of prudent and humane animal use.
Unfortunately, that kind of thing can distort all use of animals by humans, even though it is not truly representative of it.
Anyway this is what I think and I probably wont reply if you answer me back
People who advocate human consumption of meat often its natural and use scientific arguments such as the food chain and evolution to back up their arguments, however according to evolution our closest living relative is the chimpanzee....
"but chimpanzees are omnivores" is going to be the reply to this, they are considered omnivores because they eat fruit AND insects like termites...They don`t eat cows and chickens because they`re not supposed to.
"but its natural"...
Its not natural to wear clothes but you do that don`t you?Its not natural to read and write but you do that don`t you?Its not natural to build buildings or educate our children...Human society is built on the unnatural so you can`t choose to act like an animal when you feel like it and a human when it suits you. With our higher level of intelligence comes higher moral standards by which we must live our lives
I`ve seen videos like this and did an entire section in my Eng Comp class about how meat is made. Don`t say I don`t care, I`m just realistic when I say I will eat meat regardless because the majority of the meat packing plants AREN`T like this.
Not to mention most animal rights organizations lose their credibility when they splash red paint on models who were wearing faux fur because "it will make people think that animal skin looks nice, and they`ll want the real thing."
I may be rambling, but I don`t think I`ll come back into this board to see how many people hate me now.
is more important than animal problems? no?
and againlast one i promise. people are cruel!!
who cares!but ive seen some of the worst animal rights campaign clips, and i still eat meat. so i dont think an hour and a half of it will change my mind :)
also nearlpeople arent not watching it cause they dont wanna know what goes on lol, its cause its boring and we have better things to do with our lives!!!
hunting animals kill efficiently and waste not a jot.
We on the other hand demand cheap food, therefore raising the game for the farmers, then when we get it we waste most of it, throwing it in the bin.
meat is murder - tasty, tasty murder.
meat is not - starvation, exploitation, oppression and torture, then finally, waste.
Why in the slaugherhouse can they just not behead the animals. This would mean the animal would feel no pain and it would be instant.
On note of the topic. I`m all for a better life and less painful death for the meat I eat, but it tastes to good to go without.
Think of all the animlas that eat meat. There`s a lot of them. Shall we tell the lion to leave the antelope alone because it`s just not nice? I got a feeling he`ll die if he listens to us...