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Date: 05/07/08 12:42 PM

284 Responses to Cemetary of Innocents Conflict

  1. Profile photo of eugenius
    eugenius Male 30-39
    1620 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 12:04 pm
    Link: Cemetary of Innocents Conflict - Ah, there`s nothing like a little Choice/Life pissing match to get the blood pumping, is there?
  2. Profile photo of DarkProdigy
    DarkProdigy Male 18-29
    474 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 12:46 pm
    O___O

    What are they talking about and why the hell are they removing the crosses?

  3. Profile photo of xxFloydexx
    xxFloydexx Female 18-29
    47 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 12:48 pm
    they`re innocents crosses, represent aborted babies. The guy tearing them up says that abortion is woman`s choice. (I`m not taking sides, just saying what is it)
  4. Profile photo of NOFX14
    NOFX14 Male 18-29
    1141 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 12:52 pm
    He`s right if someone who has had an abortion sees this they might get a little upset. I think it`s little too much propaganda to try and emotionally draw in people to their cause. All they are doing is appealing emotionally to the students to try and make them feel terrible. I-A-B abortion debate starts... now
  5. Profile photo of 778663
    778663 Male 13-17
    1 post
    May 7, 2008 at 12:59 pm
    it is definitely going to get heated. i think that this guy is disrupting their freedom of speech, even though he complains of his own freedom of speech as being denied. they have a right to assembly and he is disrupting that too. besides, emotionally appealing to others was the goal of that. ethos (ethics), pathos (emotion), and logos (logic) are the three ways people appeal to eachother when trying to make a point. this particular demonstration was perfectly within legal boundaries, even if it may upset a few people... including this guy.
  6. Profile photo of kingdomCome
    kingdomCome Male 18-29
    338 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 1:00 pm
    Emotional blackmail is all that the crosses boil down to. Women who are pregnant know very well what they are doing, that`s why it`s such a heartbreaking decision to take.
  7. Profile photo of primetimekin
    primetimekin Male 18-29
    7935 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 1:01 pm
    I survived Roe v. Wade
  8. Profile photo of trentoneli
    trentoneli Male 18-29
    258 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 1:01 pm
    is it supposed to say innocence? cause "innocents" is bugging me :/ :/
  9. Profile photo of AntEconomist
    AntEconomist Male 40-49
    356 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 1:02 pm
    The issue here isn`t the right to an abortion. I`m not entirely sure the issue is free speech either (the first amendment protects speech from government action, not the actions of other people). Maybe it`s a simple property rights issue. The dude knocking down the crosses was destroying property.
  10. Profile photo of keylimepie20
    keylimepie20 Male 18-29
    142 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 1:05 pm
    I feel the same way a AntEconomist.
  11. Profile photo of Angel25
    Angel25 Female 18-29
    297 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 1:06 pm
    Speaking as a mother of 3 and a woman who has gone through what my doctors here in Ohio coin a "Medically induced abortion" (which means my son was dying and would have killed me too if he stayed in my womb, and my only choice was to have it done, or risk dying or worse giving birth to a son who was dead and in pieces) I must say that seeing those crosses would have broken my heart. I feel guilty as is, because I think daily that I should have just taken the chance and put my life in God`s hands, but I listened to my Doctors and my family. TO see people protest I often wonder if they ever consider the people like me out there who really didn`t have a choice because it was life or death for them as well. So this clip hurt me to my heart, because not everyone who has an abortion does it just because they don`t want the baby :( So sad.....
  12. Profile photo of dibens
    dibens Male 18-29
    203 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 1:07 pm
    To quote maddox:

    "I`m against abortion, but for killing babies"

  13. Profile photo of primetimekin
    primetimekin Male 18-29
    7935 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 1:08 pm
    angel25, they have thought about you. My sister was a part of a protest and what they believe is unnecessary abortions should be outlawed. If it is for a matter of life and death than must people are for it.
  14. Profile photo of primetimekin
    primetimekin Male 18-29
    7935 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 1:09 pm
    dibens, that.is.awesome!
  15. Profile photo of snow113
    snow113 Male 18-29
    133 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 1:11 pm
    I survived Roe v. Wade also, but many didn`t :(

    Guy "Since its a right, you don`t have the right to challenge it."
    Ummmmm...yeah, they do. Its called freedom of speech. Since its a right to burn the American flag, does that mean people can`t challenge it? I believe many have before, and many will in the future.

  16. Profile photo of ClearSky87
    ClearSky87 Male 18-29
    227 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 1:12 pm
    what about the westboro baptist church protesting funerals... most ppl think thats going to far

    i think it is ok to do as long as you don`t ram it down their throats, like protesting at a funeral is not fair because they can`t ignore you

    i don`t know where this is or if there is more to it...but this seems like overkill to me

  17. Profile photo of VONLINE
    VONLINE Male 18-29
    578 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 1:12 pm
    I have nothing against abortions if the pregnacy is threatening to the health of the mother (see above post.) Or in cases of rape or incest. What I have a problem with are those who have abortions because their not "ready" to have a baby yet. That`s my humble opinion.
  18. Profile photo of pvj2000
    pvj2000 Male 18-29
    59 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 1:13 pm
    I just think people should just get their noses out of other peoples f&%king business and get on with their own lifes! Stop pushing your views on other people! If they want an abortion its their choice not yours. Back off.
  19. Profile photo of Fuego
    Fuego Male 40-49
    1287 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 1:14 pm
    no, it`s innocents , the plural form of the noun. An innocent is someone who is innocent. that was a tough one, I know. To answer your next question, innocent (adj)1a (M&W) is free from guilt or sin especially through lack of knowledge of evil. To answer your 3rd question, I`m pretty much always an @$$hole.

    If the demonstration was on school property it would probably have to be sanctioned by the school. If the anti-abortionists went through all the hoops of securing permission, then he had no right to tear out the crosses. Sucks, `cause I agree with him, but rights go both ways.

  20. Profile photo of primetimekin
    primetimekin Male 18-29
    7935 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 1:15 pm
    so pvj, if we allow the concentration and slaughter of jews it should be ok since its not me its them, right?
  21. Profile photo of snow113
    snow113 Male 18-29
    133 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 1:15 pm
    Angel25, if you ever listen to any prolifers, most of them (if not all of them) will say that the mothers life should not be jeopardized. Those that are puting those crosses up, I can almost guarentee you that they wouldn`t consider your abortion a wrong choice...it saved your life. Furthermore, I am sorry for your loss.
  22. Profile photo of snow113
    snow113 Male 18-29
    133 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 1:17 pm
    pvj, when you kill a child, you are then going into the child`s "business"
  23. Profile photo of Angel25
    Angel25 Female 18-29
    297 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 1:17 pm
    Primetimekin, thanks I didn`t know there were people out there who thought about `us`. Thanks for the info!
  24. Profile photo of SirKevin
    SirKevin Male 13-17
    240 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 1:19 pm
    "is it supposed to say innocence? cause "innocents" is bugging me :/ :/" No, it is meant to say Innocents as in the plural of innocent, as in a child who has done nothing wrong.
    Anyway, I must say I`m pro choice. I understand it has to be an extremely difficult choice, but I support it none the less. If a couple is not ready for a child, or the chid has severe mental or physical disabilities, it would be unfair to bring a child into a world that it wouldn`t be happy in. I know I wouldn`t have wanted to be born if I were mentally or physically defitiant. But that`s just me. I`m not gonna stop people having an ill child because they believe it`s right. I`m pro choice, after all.
    Cue pro life debate
  25. Profile photo of EmoGangster
    EmoGangster Male 13-17
    184 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 1:21 pm
    "Are you CRAYZEE?!?"
    -Roderick
  26. Profile photo of Johnnyk123
    Johnnyk123 Male 18-29
    179 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 1:23 pm
    Women have a constitutional right to have an abortion; and the people with the crosses merely have them up to induce emotional discord for those who`ve had an abortion.
  27. Profile photo of Mitchell1192
    Mitchell1192 Male 13-17
    99 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 1:24 pm
    There is no right to not be offended

    Grow up

    Western society is collapsing thanks to these pussies.

  28. Profile photo of trentoneli
    trentoneli Male 18-29
    258 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 1:24 pm
    ok, thanks! i wasn`t sure how it was supposed to be.
  29. Profile photo of caboose117
    caboose117 Male 13-17
    1204 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 1:25 pm
    "Speaking as a mother of 3 and a woman who has gone through what my doctors here in Ohio coin a "Medically induced abortion" (which means my son was dying and would have killed me too if he stayed in my womb, and my only choice was to have it done, or risk dying or worse giving birth to a son who was dead and in pieces) I must say that seeing those crosses would have broken my heart. I feel guilty as is, because I think daily that I should have just taken the chance and put my life in God`s hands, but I listened to my Doctors and my family. TO see people protest I often wonder if they ever consider the people like me out there who really didn`t have a choice because it was life or death for them as well. So this clip hurt me to my heart, because not everyone who has an abortion does it just because they don`t want the baby :( So sad....."

    I understand how you think, which is why I agree with a policy where abortion is safe, legal, and rare.

  30. Profile photo of caboose117
    caboose117 Male 13-17
    1204 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 1:25 pm
    Let the mother choose only if it`s rape or she`s gona die. that`s just my opinion.


    runs away before debate ensues*

  31. Profile photo of primetimekin
    primetimekin Male 18-29
    7935 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 1:25 pm
    johnny, how is that any different than the slave owners who had a constitutional right to own slaves, and the northerners who wrote "Uncle Toms Cabin" to induce the northerners to fight?
  32. Profile photo of SirKevin
    SirKevin Male 13-17
    240 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 1:26 pm
    "pvj, when you kill a child, you are then going into the child`s "business"
    Please remember that a foetus has next to no senses or functions. At early stages of growth, it`s simply a group of cells. Even I don`t believe in abortion to far down the line. It`s too late, the child is almost complete and you should have made your mind up sooner to save yourself and your baby`s pain.
  33. Profile photo of vancouverite
    vancouverite Female 18-29
    250 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 1:26 pm
    Wednesday, May 07, 2008 1:08:32 PM
    angel25, they have thought about you. My sister was a part of a protest and what they believe is unnecessary abortions should be outlawed. If it is for a matter of life and death than must people are for it.

    What about rape? Should a woman who is raped have to bear a child from that incounter, and perhaps bear a hatred for the child because of how it was conceived?

    I am entirly pro choice - it is a woman`s body and it is her choice what to do. If she wants to keep it fine, if she wants to be prolife, fine. but EVERY woman should be given the choice.

  34. Profile photo of primetimekin
    primetimekin Male 18-29
    7935 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 1:28 pm
    "What about rape? Should a woman who is raped have to bear a child from that incounter, and perhaps bear a hatred for the child because of how it was conceived?"

    That is still a matter of debate. Some say they can just have the baby and give it to an orphanage so that they wont have to bear the difficulties of it, and others say that it would still be discomfort for the mother either way. I am undecided on that.

  35. Profile photo of Johnnyk123
    Johnnyk123 Male 18-29
    179 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 1:30 pm
    "johnny, how is that any different than the slave owners who had a constitutional right to own slaves, and the northerners who wrote "Uncle Toms Cabin" to induce the northerners to fight."

    Your logic is on a completely different level. You`re talking about real people in your post, fetuses technically aren`t real people, and therefore do not have rights, and are not on the same level as slaves. Or anybody else.

  36. Profile photo of farquaadhnch
    farquaadhnch Male 18-29
    1225 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 1:30 pm
    Technically, everyone who was born after Roe V. Wade has "survived". Don`t count yourselves special because your parent`s almost didn`t have you. Consider yourselves lucky you were born to someone who loves you.

    I am pro-choice and will remain so until the world finds an alternative solution for the unwanted/parentless kids who just want to live.

    My cousin is 10 now, but wouldn`t be if his biological mother hadn`t made a very difficult decision. She was raped at the age of 11. Her family wanted to abort the baby, but she refused. My cousin and his biological mother were luckier to have found my uncle than most of the women, who do end up choosing the more desperate route, but I will support them in that decision, because it is their decision to make until the fetus is capable of being born alive and can survive on its own.

    I also think that the pro-life folks can show all the dead fetus pictures they want, because I believe in the first amendment and I know it won̵

  37. Profile photo of Angel25
    Angel25 Female 18-29
    297 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 1:30 pm
    Snow113, the only ones I`ve heard had said that I shouldn`t have listened to the doctor, and that my faith should have been in God :/ but now I know that not all are like that and I am grateful :) And thnx for the condolences :0) I was blessed with 3 more children and all are healthy. My hubby and I are happy :)
  38. Profile photo of vancouverite
    vancouverite Female 18-29
    250 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 1:30 pm
    but that still forces the woman to carry that child to term. 9 months with a consistant reminder of what she went through.
  39. Profile photo of primetimekin
    primetimekin Male 18-29
    7935 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 1:31 pm
    "technically aren`t real people,"
    Unborn Victims of Violence Act states that they are.

  40. Profile photo of Johnnyk123
    Johnnyk123 Male 18-29
    179 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 1:33 pm
    "What about rape? Should a woman who is raped have to bear a child from that incounter, and perhaps bear a hatred for the child because of how it was conceived?"

    The chance of becoming pregnant from a rape is EXTREMELY rare. And a true mother would never hate her child, regardless.

    "I am entirly pro choice - it is a woman`s body and it is her choice what to do. If she wants to keep it fine, if she wants to be prolife, fine. but EVERY woman should be given the choice."

    Some women may not be psychologically able to make a decision regarding abortion. Perhaps they are distressed? Or under pressure from a third party.

  41. Profile photo of snow113
    snow113 Male 18-29
    133 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 1:34 pm
    What gives any of us the right to say "oooh, well it looks human now so its officially human" or "its just a bunch of cells". The best answer is, when conception occurs, life occurs.
    Also, it ticks me off that when someone is murdered (like that peterson woman on) who is pregnant, then it counts as double homocide...which it should. But when an abortion occurs, it isn`t murder. That irritates me. We count the fetus as a human one instance, and the other instance we count it as garbage.
  42. Profile photo of Angel25
    Angel25 Female 18-29
    297 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 1:35 pm
    I must say any baby that is in womb is real. Whether a few cells or not, they are real and are a life :)
  43. Profile photo of pvj2000
    pvj2000 Male 18-29
    59 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 1:36 pm
    I did not mention Jews or anything else like that, people have wanted abortions for centuries and they always will. the only reason people in the west have their views on it the way they do is due to christianity and any other abrahamic religions. Its not wrong, its not right but it will happen even if it is against the law, so its better if it happens in safe place. If you dont like it dont do it and go to what ever happy place you like.
  44. Profile photo of TheDoc2044
    TheDoc2044 Male 30-39
    107 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 1:36 pm
    If you don`t want kids, don`t have unprotected sex. Use SOME form of birth control other than murder. Abortion should ONLY be legal in the case of a threat to the mother`s life. If you don`t want the kid, put it up for adoption. Simple and easy. I am sick of people not wanting to deal with the consequences of their actions.
  45. Profile photo of Johnnyk123
    Johnnyk123 Male 18-29
    179 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 1:37 pm
    "Unborn Victims of Violence Act states that they are."

    Only if they are injured during a violent act against the mother.

    I.E. - if the mother of the fetus is shot and killed, the killer is considered to have killed 2 poeple.

  46. Profile photo of snow113
    snow113 Male 18-29
    133 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 1:37 pm
    johnnyk123, if you remember, slaves weren`t counted as people for a long time. Then they were counted as 3/5 of a person...
  47. Profile photo of mizzou
    mizzou Male 18-29
    103 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 1:37 pm
    Okay, I`m going to attempt to make an actual rational point here (though I realize this is a foolish thing to do on an IAB forum, but what the hell, I`ve got nothing better to do right now).

    The abortion issue comes down to one and only one question: Where does life begin?

    Everyone (or most everyone) agrees that murder is bad and should be illegal. Therefore, if you believe life begins at conception, you should be anti-abortion.

    However, if you believe life begins at birth, abortion should be less of a moral issue to you.

    And before you go trying to cite science or religion to prove when life begins, please realize that it is a purely philosophical question that cannot be definitively answered. Each person will have their own opinion, and they are entitled to it.

    Alright, now I feel like I helped even though this is too ling and no one will bother to read it.

  48. Profile photo of Johnnyk123
    Johnnyk123 Male 18-29
    179 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 1:40 pm
    "johnnyk123, if you remember, slaves weren`t counted as people for a long time. Then they were counted as 3/5 of a person..."

    We realized slaves were sentient beings. Fetuses are not, and never will be.

  49. Profile photo of sniperchick
    sniperchick Female 18-29
    23 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 1:40 pm
    So, Im openly pro-choice, nothing will change that.
    However, that guy needs to chill. Just because the protestors had a different view, it doesn`t take away their freedom of choice.

    Johnnyk- Yeah, my pregnant friend got beat up by some girls at my highschool. They were charged with attempted murder. She was like 7 months, clearly showing.

  50. Profile photo of TheDoc2044
    TheDoc2044 Male 30-39
    107 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 1:41 pm
    Where does life begin, mizzou? Life begins the moment cell replication starts, scientifically. Pro choicers would argue the relevant point to probably be the start of cerebral activity.
  51. Profile photo of VONLINE
    VONLINE Male 18-29
    578 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 1:42 pm
    You can`t put an absolute definition to when a fetus becomes an "actual person." That is why I`m pro-life. Abortion is only justifiable in health concern and rape related cases.
  52. Profile photo of primetimekin
    primetimekin Male 18-29
    7935 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 1:43 pm
    "We realized slaves were sentient beings. Fetuses are not, and never will be."
    They actually have dreams and consciousness. So that statement is arguable.
  53. Profile photo of Johnnyk123
    Johnnyk123 Male 18-29
    179 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 1:43 pm
    "Johnnyk- Yeah, my pregnant friend got beat up by some girls at my highschool. They were charged with attempted murder. She was like 7 months, clearly showing."

    It would really matter at that point, b/c abortion would be illegal.

    And I`m very sorry for her loss, and I hope they serve a very long sentence.

  54. Profile photo of piscivous
    piscivous Male 50-59
    146 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 1:44 pm
    I`m with Dennis Miller on this one:
    One penis, no vote.
  55. Profile photo of Johnnyk123
    Johnnyk123 Male 18-29
    179 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 1:46 pm
    "They actually have dreams and consciousness. So that statement is arguable."

    In the third trimester maybe, but not before that.

  56. Profile photo of Angel25
    Angel25 Female 18-29
    297 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 1:46 pm
    Mizzou I read it, and it makes perfect sense. It all depends on where you stand in your beliefs. So I agree. Since I happen to believe in God, I believe conception begins life :) I also believe God gave everyone free will, so I don`t judge :)
  57. Profile photo of Mur-is-bored
    Mur-is-bored Female 13-17
    274 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 1:49 pm
    I`m Pro-Life.
    Have you ever seen pictures of aborted babies? I have, and it broke my heart. I lost sleep over it, I cried over it, and now I never want to think about abortions again. But I have to. Something needs to be done about unnecessary abortions.
    If a woman`s health is threatened, then I say abortion is an option. If a woman doesn`t want her child because it`s a "mistake", I think adoption is an option.
    Also, if the reason for abortion is that the child is mentally disabled and the parents don`t want their child to be in a world where it`s not going to be happy, well that`s not right. I know a lot of mentally disabled people that are a hell of a lot happier than anyone I kno

    Anyway, I think I`ve tolerated IAB enough for constantly bashing my religious beliefs, and it pisses me off to an extreme. But if Life/Choice becomes IAB`s new debate topic, I vow never to come back to this site.

    (Even though no one will miss me)

  58. Profile photo of cndman15
    cndman15 Male 18-29
    328 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 1:49 pm
    people who are like "WHAT IF THEY WERE RAPED?!?!" are stupid. barely any pro life people say to completely outlaw abortion. andrape/incest/handicap abortions make up less than .5%. they can have their abortions.

    and women do get to choose what to do with their bodies. they choose to have unprotected sex and get pregnant. thats their choice. they should stick to it

  59. Profile photo of Johnnyk123
    Johnnyk123 Male 18-29
    179 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 1:50 pm
    Conception does begin life, just as a piece of moldy bread does.

    It`s like killing bacteria and then people saying "OMG! MURDERZ111!
    "

  60. Profile photo of Johnnyk123
    Johnnyk123 Male 18-29
    179 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 1:52 pm
    And just FYI, I AM pro-life.

    But, without me, there would be no debate. :P

  61. Profile photo of snow113
    snow113 Male 18-29
    133 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 1:53 pm
    Personally, I believe no abortions should occur for any reason, other than to save the mothers life. I believe that everyone should atleast believe that abortion should be avoided at all costs (except in rare cases like rape). It is every individuals God given right or (for atheists) universal right to live to their fullest potential.

    I think we can all agree that at the moment of conception there is a living cell. Why isn`t that cell human? Does a fully functional brain make one a human? Does that mean those with a mental disability are less human?...

  62. Profile photo of Johnnyk123
    Johnnyk123 Male 18-29
    179 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 1:58 pm
    And so the debate ends... For now! :P
  63. Profile photo of jolindie
    jolindie Female 18-29
    100 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 1:59 pm
    murder should never be an option. bad things happen to people all the time, that doesn`t mean killing another person is okay so long as it makes your life more convenient
    usually keeping your legs closed works.
  64. Profile photo of snow113
    snow113 Male 18-29
    133 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 2:00 pm
    I think...someone needs to check this...that there have been 50,000,000 abortions in the US since the Roe v. Wade decision.

    This is taken from wikipedia:
    The approximate number of induced abortions performed worldwide in 2003 was 42 million.

  65. Profile photo of Johnnyk123
    Johnnyk123 Male 18-29
    179 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 2:01 pm
    "I think we can all agree that at the moment of conception there is a living cell."

    I agree.

    "Why isn`t that cell human?" It is a human cell, but not human as defined by us.

    "Does a fully functional brain make one a human?" No, brain dead people are human.

    "Does that mean those with a mental disability are less human?..." Mental people are just as human, and even more human the fetuses.

  66. Profile photo of Johnnyk123
    Johnnyk123 Male 18-29
    179 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 2:02 pm
    It`s kinda of surprising how many pro-lifers there are on IAB. xD
  67. Profile photo of lost_lynx
    lost_lynx Female 18-29
    17 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 2:04 pm
    America is gross, how could a university allow a religious demonstration to take place on campus...what about the separation of church and state? A Canadian university or College would never allow this to happen...but hey they teach us evolution in high school too.

    This is why the rest of the world thinks the U.S is CRAZY !!! The religious right (and G.W`s policies) are giving the states a very bad name in almost all western countries.

  68. Profile photo of KeyKey
    KeyKey Female 18-29
    5 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 2:04 pm
    It`s simply amazing how one video clip can start all of this.
    First off, I am pro-choice, for many reasons and beliefs.
    Did you know that abortion was only made illegal due to the dirty equipment used by doctors in the early 1900s? Native Americans used to have abortions also. This is not the only reason why I am pro-choice.
    Those who become pregnant from a rape have their choice to abort I believe. They should not have to birth a child they never concented to conceive.
    Also, think of the lifestyle the child could potentially have if given life. They may grow up in poverty or in a potentially horrible household. Their parents loose so much because of this child. Some cannot financially support a child, and they do not believe in contraception.
    The phrase, `still born` also adds to why I am pro-choice. Born dead means they never lived.
    Oh, Mur-is-bored, we have yet to `bash` your religious beliefs, we`re simply stating opinions. If this does not suit you then maybe y
  69. Profile photo of jolindie
    jolindie Female 18-29
    100 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 2:05 pm
    abortion isnt necessarily about religion
  70. Profile photo of SirKevin
    SirKevin Male 13-17
    240 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 2:05 pm
    "Where does life begin, mizzou? Life begins the moment cell replication starts, scientifically. Pro choicers would argue the relevant point to probably be the start of cerebral activity."
    Boil it down to the point where the foetus starts to care about its life. Which is a short time before it`s born, it starts to do all the things babies can do to save themselves. When it`s at a poitn where it`s a cluster of cells, or it still isn`t very developed, then it doesn`t know what`s happening, and if it suddenly no longer exists, it never knew any different. If I was aborted, I wouldn`t exactly be angry, I wouldn`t exist. It wouldn`t bother me in the slightest knowing from a sentient perspective that I had been aborted. It was my parents choice, and for whatever reason, I wasn`t meant to be born. That`s my view on it, and that`s how I`ll live.
  71. Profile photo of cndman15
    cndman15 Male 18-29
    328 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 2:07 pm
    who says the demonstration was christian? maybe there are lots of athiests in the world that dont like killing babies. and canadian nationalists suck too many penises. also. i missed the part where college became part of government
  72. Profile photo of Johnnyk123
    Johnnyk123 Male 18-29
    179 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 2:08 pm
    "America is gross, how could a university allow a religious demonstration to take place on campus...what about the separation of church and state? A Canadian university or College would never allow this to happen...but hey they teach us evolution in high school too.

    This is why the rest of the world thinks the U.S is CRAZY !!! The religious right (and G.W`s policies) are giving the states a very bad name in almost all western countries."

    Dude shut the hell up.

  73. Profile photo of Mur-is-bored
    Mur-is-bored Female 13-17
    274 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 2:09 pm
    Or maybe it`s only alive until the mother or someone else says it`s alive...???
    So why can`t women give birth and THEN kill their babies??? Let`s just pretend it`s not alive and then get rid of it. Put it out with the trash. Who cares? Was it even human anyway?

    Also, babies were sometimes LEGALLY aborted at FULL TERM up until 2003!!! And have you seen the sentence for performing or recieving a partial birth abortion??? Only a fine...or less than 2 years in prison!

    LESS THAN 2 YEARS in prison does not, nor will it ever, pay for a life that will never get a chance to live.

    If someone sucked my brains out through a tube and cut off all my limbs, I would hope to God Almighty that they would get more than 2 years in prison.

    Also, 15 percent of the population of the United States has been aborted, and only .5 percent were necessary to the mother`s health or were result of rape.

    We`ve started something that no one can stop no matter what we do. Abortion has gone too far.

  74. Profile photo of lost_lynx
    lost_lynx Female 18-29
    17 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 2:09 pm
    1000`s of crosses being put up on school property seems kinda religious to me?
  75. Profile photo of primetimekin
    primetimekin Male 18-29
    7935 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 2:09 pm
    "America is gross, how could a university allow a religious demonstration to take place on campus...what about the separation of church and state? A Canadian university or College would never allow this to happen...but hey they teach us evolution in high school too."

    1. It was probably a private university
    2. so they dont allow freedom of speech in Canada?
    3. Biology, all they teach you for an entire semester is evolution.

  76. Profile photo of Mur-is-bored
    Mur-is-bored Female 13-17
    274 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 2:12 pm
    Key Key,
    I`m not talking about this post, I`m talking about the hundreds of other posts on this website.
  77. Profile photo of lost_lynx
    lost_lynx Female 18-29
    17 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 2:13 pm
    If your trying to tell me that the pro-life movement and religion don`t go hand in hand I`m not going to believe that.

    Over-population is a huge problem facing the planet, why bring an unwanted child into this world when there are 1 000 000`s of children who already need to be adopted???

  78. Profile photo of Johnnyk123
    Johnnyk123 Male 18-29
    179 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 2:13 pm
    "America is gross, how could a university allow a religious demonstration to take place on campus"

    I can name 50 on my atheist friends who are pro-life

    "what about the separation of church and state?" Freedom of speech.

    "A Canadian university or College would never allow this to happen..." Canada must lack freedom of speech.

    "but hey they teach us evolution in high school too."

    So do U.S. schools.

    "This is why the rest of the world thinks the U.S is CRAZY !!!" Only stupid Canadians

    "The religious right (and G.W`s policies) are giving the states a very bad name in almost all western countries." And non-nice individuals like you.

  79. Profile photo of snow113
    snow113 Male 18-29
    133 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 2:14 pm
    "America is gross, how could a university allow a religious demonstration to take place on campus...what about the separation of church and state? A Canadian university or College would never allow this to happen...but hey they teach us evolution in high school too."

    First off, I learned evolution in high school and I went to a catholic high school. Second, you can have demonstrations on a public or private university b/c its FREEDOM OF SPEECH. It doesn`t matter if its about religion or not. So a private canadian college wouldn`t allow this...I think they would. And you just insulted 300 million people by calling us gross.

  80. Profile photo of primetimekin
    primetimekin Male 18-29
    7935 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 2:14 pm
    "Over-population is a huge problem facing the planet,"
    Weren`t you just a second ago criticizing GWB policy and now your talking about over population?
  81. Profile photo of Johnnyk123
    Johnnyk123 Male 18-29
    179 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 2:14 pm
    "1000`s of crosses being put up on school property seems kinda religious to me?"

    Some atheists get buried with crosses instead of headstones.

  82. Profile photo of Johnnyk123
    Johnnyk123 Male 18-29
    179 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 2:16 pm
    "If your trying to tell me that the pro-life movement and religion don`t go hand in hand I`m not going to believe that."

    Atheists believe in Pro-life too, so no.

  83. Profile photo of jolindie
    jolindie Female 18-29
    100 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 2:16 pm
    so the stupid peta people can cry to everyone about their stupid animals that have feelings, but when it comes to a human life automatically it`s all about religion?
  84. Profile photo of Johnnyk123
    Johnnyk123 Male 18-29
    179 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 2:17 pm
    "Over-population is a huge problem facing the planet, why bring an unwanted child into this world when there are 1 000 000`s of children who already need to be adopted???"

    Is that why my aunt victoria has been waiting over a year to get a child, because they are millions of them?

  85. Profile photo of Mur-is-bored
    Mur-is-bored Female 13-17
    274 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 2:17 pm
    Sir Kevin,
    Ultrasounds of abortions being performed on 8 week old unborn babies show the unborn child moving away from the saline solution. In other words HAVING A WILL TO LIVE!
    Now how could you argue that the child does not fight for it`s life in the womb?
  86. Profile photo of cndman15
    cndman15 Male 18-29
    328 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 2:17 pm
    new decision. lets abort canadian babies only.

    heh.heh. just kidding.

  87. Profile photo of Mur-is-bored
    Mur-is-bored Female 13-17
    274 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 2:20 pm
    Johnnyk...you`re great!
  88. Profile photo of lost_lynx
    lost_lynx Female 18-29
    17 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 2:20 pm
    Lets just say Canadian universities and colleges try to protect their students from religious extremism.
  89. Profile photo of Mur-is-bored
    Mur-is-bored Female 13-17
    274 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 2:20 pm
    Good idea cndman15!
  90. Profile photo of lost_lynx
    lost_lynx Female 18-29
    17 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 2:23 pm

    i`m at a loss as to how G.B`s policies and over-population intertwine...please enlighten me.
  91. Profile photo of primetimekin
    primetimekin Male 18-29
    7935 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 2:24 pm
    so wanting to save fetus, a cause of which both religion and atheist believe in is religious extremism? So the saving of life is an extreme now?
  92. Profile photo of lost_lynx
    lost_lynx Female 18-29
    17 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 2:24 pm
    Yes, I am pro-aborting Canadian Babies, it`s been like that for decades and I hope it stays that way. Thanks for the support!
  93. Profile photo of primetimekin
    primetimekin Male 18-29
    7935 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 2:24 pm
    War causes the death of people thus removing over population. Done.
  94. Profile photo of lost_lynx
    lost_lynx Female 18-29
    17 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 2:26 pm
    for real guys I have no idea how G.B is supporting the fact that the world is over-populated, thats at least something him and I can agree on !
  95. Profile photo of cndman15
    cndman15 Male 18-29
    328 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 2:26 pm
    3 cheers for gb`s war and depleting the overpopulation! w00t w00t!


    (sarcasm.. btw)

  96. Profile photo of EmoGangster
    EmoGangster Male 13-17
    184 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 2:28 pm
    "Ultrasounds of abortions being performed on 8 week old unborn babies show the unborn child moving away from the saline solution. In other words HAVING A WILL TO LIVE!
    Now how could you argue that the child does not fight for it`s life in the womb?"

    I want you to
    1) Get a cup.
    2) Put some water in it
    3) Sprinkle pepper all around on the water.
    4) Pump some liquid soap into the center of the glass.
    Or watch this video;;
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jx-qVyeX2...

    OMGZZ!!! the pepper is HAVING A WILL TO NOT GET SOAPY!!

    Now I want you to argue how pepper does not fight for it`s lack-of-soapiness in the glass of water.

    d:

  97. Profile photo of deaf_woman
    deaf_woman Male 30-39
    2720 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 2:29 pm
    ^ bigtime lolz.
  98. Profile photo of lost_lynx
    lost_lynx Female 18-29
    17 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 2:29 pm
    well I guess by not providing relief to his own suffering and dying people in Katrina and providing almost no support to millions dying of Aids oh and the murder of thousands in various wars he`s controlling the population
  99. Profile photo of Mur-is-bored
    Mur-is-bored Female 13-17
    274 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 2:29 pm
    What does overpopulation have to do with it?
    If there was a giant tornado coming and the shelter was crowded, would you kick people out and let them die? Or would you make more room?

    Also, I live in a town of about 10,000 people. There`s thousands of empty homes here. My community can give babies a place to live.
    What about all the plains out west? You could drive 300 miles down a road without seeing a single soul. Let`s put the babies there. Build them their own town even.

    Overpopulation is not the issue.

  100. Profile photo of lost_lynx
    lost_lynx Female 18-29
    17 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 2:30 pm
    Some atheists get buried with crosses instead of headstones.

    not much of an atheist then.

  101. Profile photo of Mur-is-bored
    Mur-is-bored Female 13-17
    274 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 2:31 pm
    Very funny EmoGangster.
    You want to argue on whether pepper is alive or not? Because I can assure you I will win that debate.
  102. Profile photo of Mur-is-bored
    Mur-is-bored Female 13-17
    274 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 2:33 pm
    If it`s the crosses that are bothering you I`m sure they`d be happy to change them to blank, rectangular tombstones.

    Or does it really matter that much? It`s the same concept.

  103. Profile photo of primetimekin
    primetimekin Male 18-29
    7935 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 2:34 pm
    overpopulation is a world wide issue but not in developed nations. Over population will solve itself when water becomes really expensive and less developed nations wont be able to survive. The US will be fine. And I wont get into Bush in this thread but in another I will. I never liked Sadam.
  104. Profile photo of Mur-is-bored
    Mur-is-bored Female 13-17
    274 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 2:34 pm
    I feel another debate coming on.
  105. Profile photo of lost_lynx
    lost_lynx Female 18-29
    17 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 2:35 pm
    What does overpopulation have to do with it?
    If there was a giant tornado coming and the shelter was crowded, would you kick people out and let them die? Or would you make more room?

    Also, I live in a town of about 10,000 people. There`s thousands of empty homes here. My community can give babies a place to live.
    What about all the plains out west? You could drive 300 miles down a road without seeing a single soul. Let`s put the babies there. Build them their own town even.

    Just because you live in a rural area does not mean the world is not facing over-population.

  106. Profile photo of EmoGangster
    EmoGangster Male 13-17
    184 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 2:35 pm
    Mur-is-bored:
    No, but you can argue to me on whether a fetus is alive or not.
  107. Profile photo of lost_lynx
    lost_lynx Female 18-29
    17 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 2:38 pm
    overpopulation is a world wide issue but not in developed nations. Over population will solve itself when water becomes really expensive and less developed nations wont be able to survive. The US will be fine...........YEAH FROM STEALING CANADIANS FRESH WATER, not cool guys !
  108. Profile photo of Mur-is-bored
    Mur-is-bored Female 13-17
    274 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 2:41 pm
    lost lynx,
    What does it mean then? Like I said, there`s plenty of room in the world. There`s empty places in every country where you don`t see a town for a thousand miles.

    EmoGangster,
    If you didn`t want to argue about whether pepper is alive or not, what did you want to argue about? You knew that your video was out of context, and you didn`t have a point.

  109. Profile photo of primetimekin
    primetimekin Male 18-29
    7935 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 2:41 pm
    "YEAH FROM STEALING CANADIANS FRESH WATER, not cool guys !"

    Social Darwinism. It works for me.

  110. Profile photo of cndman15
    cndman15 Male 18-29
    328 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 2:43 pm
    yeah. cuz all my spring water comes from canada. because us americans are so hardcore we like to travel out of the country to get water. which is so hard to find right now. you are an extremely ignorant person.
  111. Profile photo of Mur-is-bored
    Mur-is-bored Female 13-17
    274 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 2:44 pm
    Why will water become more expensive?
    And would people not try to help each other get fresh water instead of letting each other die off?
    Stupid question right? Because people die everyday of thirst and starvation, yet no one is doing anything because we`re all too selfish to give up a few dollars to buy water for the less fortunate. I`ll be the first one to admitt it.
  112. Profile photo of Mur-is-bored
    Mur-is-bored Female 13-17
    274 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 2:45 pm
    By the way, it`s raining where I am right now. FRESH WATER FOR EVERYONE!!!!
  113. Profile photo of awesomeloser
    awesomeloser Male 13-17
    132 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 2:45 pm
    If I stopped a woman who was walking in to have an abortion and shot her in the stomach, and the bullet hit the child, killing it, would I be charged with murder? (assuming the mother survived) I believe you should be able to abort if the child is a risk to the mothers health, or will be born with a debilitating mental/physical disability (I.E. something that couldn`t be fixed with medicine/prosthetics/kept under control) however, if your prom date gets you pregnant its your fault and it should be illegal to abort, rape however is a tricky issue, the mother did not agree to the conception of the child, but then again it`s not the child`s fault, so I don`t know if abortion should be allowed, but if it isn`t the rapist should have to pay all the money they earn in prison(you can earn money in prison) + a % of their salary once they get out to support the child. one last thing, if i climbed a tree took a birds egg(fertilized one, not a the grocery store chicken egg kind) and smashed
  114. Profile photo of awesomeloser
    awesomeloser Male 13-17
    132 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 2:45 pm
    it on the ground, would i have killed the baby bird?
  115. Profile photo of Mur-is-bored
    Mur-is-bored Female 13-17
    274 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 2:46 pm
    Please answer my tornado question.
  116. Profile photo of primetimekin
    primetimekin Male 18-29
    7935 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 2:47 pm
    Water will be more expensive as the population rises. Its the cycle of supply and demand. Just as gas price is rising so will food and water. There will be a major water shortage 2020 were there will be worldwide thirst. It does seem like something bad but it is necessary to control populations. And the US has actually given a lot to African Nations to restore them. Death is a tragic thing. When it is unnecessary it should be stopped, but in other cases the death of some might mean more for others. That applies in many cases but abortion is not one of them.
  117. Profile photo of Mur-is-bored
    Mur-is-bored Female 13-17
    274 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 2:48 pm
    awesomeloser:
    Yes, you would be charged with murder.
    And yes, you would have killed a baby bird.
  118. Profile photo of primetimekin
    primetimekin Male 18-29
    7935 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 2:49 pm
    "By the way, it`s raining where I am right now. FRESH WATER FOR EVERYONE!!!!"
    Its not really fresh. Still has to be decontaminated.
  119. Profile photo of Mur-is-bored
    Mur-is-bored Female 13-17
    274 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 2:52 pm
    Who knew rainwater could be so dangerous. I drink it all the time. I guess I should stop?
  120. Profile photo of catbarf
    catbarf Male 18-29
    1455 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 3:01 pm
    "Like I said, there`s plenty of room in the world."

    There is not, however, enough food, water, medical supplies, school space, gasoline, or available jobs. Overpopulation is very real and it`s a massive problem.

  121. Profile photo of djjeffmaddox
    djjeffmaddox Male 18-29
    191 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 3:05 pm
    I love the internet. You guys are awesome.
  122. Profile photo of catbarf
    catbarf Male 18-29
    1455 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 3:06 pm
    "You want to argue on whether pepper is alive or not?"

    Okay, let`s replace pepper with single-celled organisms, which have the ability to react to stimuli and avoid threats.

    AIDS must now be given rights. It is immoral to kill an organism that can be physically demonstrated to have a capability present in all life for the past 4.5 billion freaking years.

  123. Profile photo of Neon_Fedora
    Neon_Fedora Female 13-17
    450 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 3:11 pm
    I say pro only for those who have been raped, have committed incest, cases where the child will come out physically or mentally deficient, and life or death situations. If you`re a whore that`s just going to be having abortion after abortion just because you couldn`t get off of your lazy ass to go the store and get some condoms then screw you.
  124. Profile photo of Mur-is-bored
    Mur-is-bored Female 13-17
    274 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 3:18 pm
    "There is not, however, enough food, water, medical supplies, school space, gasoline, or available jobs. Overpopulation is very real and it`s a massive problem."
    Yes, that`s true. But let`s construct more farms, let`s decontaminate more water, let`s manufacture more medical supplies, let`s build more schools, let`s pump more oil, let`s create more jobs. But you`re going to say it`s not that simple, there`s not enough money. It all comes down to money. But if we add up all the money that is being paid to have abortions, we could have all that.

    "Okay, let`s replace pepper with single-celled organisms, which have the ability to react to stimuli and avoid threats.

    AIDS must now be given rights. It is immoral to kill an organism that can be physically demonstrated to have a capability present in all life for the past 4.5 billion freaking years."

    No, AIDS is a disease that kills and harms the human body. Babies don`t kill. Babies don`t harm us, so why should we

  125. Profile photo of NYAAN
    NYAAN Female 13-17
    316 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 3:19 pm
    at first i thought that the crosses stood for soldiers and i`m like, "whooooooahh..." i didn`t know it was the abortion thing. i really wish churches wouldn`t lord that over people.
  126. Profile photo of Mur-is-bored
    Mur-is-bored Female 13-17
    274 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 3:19 pm
    harm them? We shouldn`t.
  127. Profile photo of Mur-is-bored
    Mur-is-bored Female 13-17
    274 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 3:21 pm
    NYAAN,
    It has absolutely nothing to do with church. Like I said, if the crosses were replaced with plain tombstones, it would still be the same concept.
  128. Profile photo of Johnnyk123
    Johnnyk123 Male 18-29
    179 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 3:24 pm
    Actually Lost Lynx,The Great Lakes (U.S. territory) is one of the most abundant source of water for the United States, and Michigan is more then willing to supply it.

    We don`t need your Canadian water.

    You derailed off your original point, phail.

  129. Profile photo of Johnnyk123
    Johnnyk123 Male 18-29
    179 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 3:28 pm
    "It has absolutely nothing to do with church. Like I said, if the crosses were replaced with plain tombstones, it would still be the same concept."


    /signed

  130. Profile photo of cleminem9919
    cleminem9919 Male 13-17
    383 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 3:36 pm
    i believe that abortion, when used as a way to save another persons right, or to remove a dead fetus, is a good thing. but when its done to sluts who just got pregnant, and dont wanna suffer the consequences, i believe its wrong. thats right, i BELIEVE its wrong. not saying it is wrong, but thats an opinion. that guys being a douchebag because its their beleifs on the law. we can disaprove a law, and have it repealed. if we dont speak up, then who will? exactly. im not saying everyone go to pro-choice, im stating my opinion, and a simple, non heated debate is logical. when its down to name, calling, i think we will know who the real idiot is here. so thats MY opinion.
  131. Profile photo of londoncallme
    londoncallme Female 18-29
    112 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 3:43 pm
    Yeah... for me it really comes down to why are these people having unprotected sex if they don`t want to have kids? I`m sexually active and i insist on using contraception every time--even though it goes against my church`s ruling on contraception.
    I know that it`s my choice to have sex and I am prepared for any consequences that may come from it. Which is why I always use contraception.
    Now, what really gets me, is seeing guys who are insulted by a girl telling them that they need to use a rubber. It`s not an insult. You`re performance will speak for itself.
    And ideally I`d like to have unprotected sex... But not until I`m ready for parenthood.
  132. Profile photo of londoncallme
    londoncallme Female 18-29
    112 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 3:51 pm
    but that`s just my opinion. Feel free to disagree with me. But it may cost you a lot to not have kids that way (with the price of contraception) but it also costs a lot to have an abortion. So, weigh your options. And if you happen to use contraception and still get pregnant, girls there is a way to avoid that. Because pregnancy is caused by fertility and women are only fertile for a brief period of time each month. So, figure out when you`re fertile and make sure you either avoid sex during that time or are definitely using protection. I know, cuz I had a pregnancy scare once due to carelessness once when I knew I was probably fertile... It`s not fun to deal with, but I still made sure the guy I was with wore a condom. (I was also so horny at the time I wasn`t thinking as clearly as I would like to have been, but making sure he was wearing a condom definitely reduced the chances of me becoming pregnant.)
  133. Profile photo of badnusty
    badnusty Male 18-29
    60 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 3:52 pm
    ffs why do people feel the need to preach theyre own beliefs onto other people, for a start wtf does someone elses child have to do with whoever put up those ridiculous crosses and whats more its a dead foetus ffs keep ur drating beliefs to yourself.
  134. Profile photo of londoncallme
    londoncallme Female 18-29
    112 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 4:00 pm
    So, if you want kids go have unprotected sex. If not make sure you`re using protection... And make sure you understand the consequences of your actions before making the choice to have sex. Cuz it`s a choice how you handle your options after facing the possible consequences of your actions. And the details of your choice is still being debated today by all those around you. So be knowledgeable before complaining about your choice and rights. Cuz you`ve have plenty of other choices that led up to it.
    (all my ranting is just for those girls who are sexually active and don`t use contraception and get pregnant because of that and then choose to have an abortion... cuz it rarely affects those who use contraception properly.)
    And, to those guys who complain about girls wanting them to use contraception--get your heads out of your asses cuz its more than just pregnancy you`re dealing with, its possible STDs...
    All I`m saying is that I`m pro-contraception and pro-choice. But be knowle
  135. Profile photo of londoncallme
    londoncallme Female 18-29
    112 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 4:02 pm
    knowledgeable*
  136. Profile photo of primetimekin
    primetimekin Male 18-29
    7935 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 4:02 pm
    So we shouldnt arrest people who commit crimes because it goes against my beliefs?
  137. Profile photo of badnusty
    badnusty Male 18-29
    60 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 4:10 pm
    no. we should arrest people who commit crimes, you can keep your beliefs to yourself, pay attention prime.
  138. Profile photo of primetimekin
    primetimekin Male 18-29
    7935 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 4:13 pm
    But how will we decide what these crimes are?
    If I believe that stealing is a crime, why should someone who steal be arrested if I am forced to keep my beliefs to myself?
  139. Profile photo of catbarf
    catbarf Male 18-29
    1455 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 4:15 pm
    "Yes, that`s true. But let`s construct more farms, let`s decontaminate more water, let`s manufacture more medical supplies, let`s build more schools, let`s pump more oil, let`s create more jobs. But you`re going to say it`s not that simple, there`s not enough money. It all comes down to money. But if we add up all the money that is being paid to have abortions, we could have all that."

    All of those require energy, with the exception of more gas which requires fantasy. And energy comes from our currently woefully-underdeveloped energy network relying on a system that is quickly becoming unfeasible. So no, it is not an option to just `pump more gas`.

    "No, AIDS is a disease that kills and harms the human body. Babies don`t kill."

    Fine. Tumors. Tumors do not always kill (Humans, which babies will become, do not always kill) and can be demonstrated to be alive.

  140. Profile photo of badnusty
    badnusty Male 18-29
    60 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 4:22 pm
    a belief and a crime are two very different things, it is widely recognised and accepted that stealing is a punishable offence however when people get they`re religeous beliefs involved aka crosses symboling the death of all aborted babies it becomes a pathetic attempt to force views onto people. As if the mothers of those children arnt grieving enough as it is without having blatent guilt-trips shoved in they`re face.
  141. Profile photo of sculptress
    sculptress Female 18-29
    101 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 4:27 pm
    id rather people give the baby they can`t care for up for adoption, but people just dont want to deal with being pregnant and its their body their choice, id personally rather see it legalized then people dying trying to do it in their closest with their coathangers.
  142. Profile photo of Vindicate
    Vindicate Female 18-29
    511 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 4:29 pm
    I`m all for abortion. I`d rather a couple be ready to introduce a child to the world (and be able to care for it and give it a good home) than to be forced to have a kid, put it up for adoption where it may or may not be put into a family, or worse yet, keep the kid themselves and mistreat it because they felt their life was taken away. Do I think it should be used as birth control? Definitely not as a primary source. But condoms do break and pills are forgotten.
    Besides, there`s over 6 billion people in the world. We`re keeping people that should be dying alive and bringing more children into the equation. We`re running out of land and resources. Who bloody cares whether someone not associated with you in ANY way wants to have an abortion? I`m not going to lose sleep over it.
  143. Profile photo of primetimekin
    primetimekin Male 18-29
    7935 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 4:35 pm
    "a belief and a crime are two very different things, it is widely recognised and accepted that stealing is a punishable offence however when people get they`re religeous beliefs involved aka crosses symboling the death of all aborted babies it becomes a pathetic attempt to force views onto people. As if the mothers of those children arnt grieving enough as it is without having blatent guilt-trips shoved in they`re face."

    A crime is nothing more than a belief that a group of people agreed on. There are still crimes which are debatable like drugs or immigration. So how can you say that this is any different than those. At one point slavery was the norm until people pushed for reform. At another point the killing of Jews was acceptable. But people shoved their beliefs down other people`s throat and it became law.

  144. Profile photo of primetimekin
    primetimekin Male 18-29
    7935 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 4:37 pm
    Vindicate, using your same argument, can`t we kill the homeless? "We`re keeping people that should be dying alive "

    Or just kill all the Africans who are the primary source of starvation in the world.

  145. Profile photo of londoncallme
    londoncallme Female 18-29
    112 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 4:47 pm
    Sculptress: I agree with you. It`s better to have the option. But I really think that people should be more knowledgeable before even considering an abortion. It goes back to before they even had it. I seriously think that people (both women and men) need to be more knowledgeable on preventing pregnancy in order to fully make the decision.
    I already know that my choice would be to have a child if I got pregnant. Either give it up for adoption if I wasn`t ready, or raise it myself.
    But I at least want to lower my chances of that happening. I wonder how many of these women who have abortions have actually tried everything they can to not get pregnant. Or if it was just a spur of the moment thing. Cuz as it was pointed out by previous posters very few women who have abortions are doing it because of rape or incest or for health reasons. It seems selfish for the majority to avoid the consequence of a child of their actions caused by having unsafe sex.
  146. Profile photo of Shellie84
    Shellie84 Female 18-29
    4197 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 5:00 pm
    OK, here goes. I don`t force my views on others so I don`t expect them to do it to me. I would HATE to see those crosses up and to be honest, I would help they guy. Why? Because I believe it is up to the woman. Not every contreception is %100 proof, ask any doctor and if a girl is NOT ready to care for a child, she should have the right to choose to abort (not 6 months don the line though - which I don`t think a doctor would do anyway)

    Yes, there is adopting, but a lot of adopted kids do not have happy endings and get a proper home for life. Not only that, there is the emotional side for the mother to carry the baby for 9 months and hand it over. (I did say could not care for the child, not could not feel for it)

    I know a couple of woman who have had abortions and it killed them emotionally, but I believe they done the right thing. Don`t judge the woman, they know what they have done and believe it or not, it hurts them for the rest of their life.

  147. Profile photo of primetimekin
    primetimekin Male 18-29
    7935 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 5:03 pm
    shellie, we dont judge the woman we judge the act.
  148. Profile photo of Aeladil
    Aeladil Female 18-29
    513 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 5:11 pm
    If a girl isn`t ready for the consequences of her actions then she shouldn`t be involved in those actions.

    Furthermore, if you`re raped - you sure as hell don`t wait for the sperm to reach the ovum. You get your ass into the local ED and get a D&C performed. It`s not an abortion, it`s scraping and cleaning the uterus to make sure there`s no sperm and no ovum therefore no resulting pregnancy.

    The whole rape defense is lame on that very basis. Get your butt in to the ED pronto.

    I`m pro-choice, to an extent. It shouldn`t be used as birth control but I wouldn`t want to take away a woman`s right to choose whether she wants her baby to live with a debilitating disease (such as Tay Sachs) or other diseases that cause horrific symptoms (such as breaking bones every time you change a diaper).

  149. Profile photo of Shellie84
    Shellie84 Female 18-29
    4197 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 5:15 pm
    primetimekin, the women are judged. Are they not shunned, abused? Isn`t the point of the crosses to point out what women are doing is "wrong"?

    *sob* I`m too tired to debate lol

    I dunno, to me it always seems as if women are judged... here, an example :

    a lady who asked for help after an abortion

  150. Profile photo of Shellie84
    Shellie84 Female 18-29
    4197 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 5:17 pm
    "The whole rape defense is lame on that very basis. Get your butt in to the ED pronto."

    A lot of women are too ashamed to go to the doctors or tell the police about being raped

  151. Profile photo of primetimekin
    primetimekin Male 18-29
    7935 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 5:18 pm
    well they`re not supposed to be judged, thats un-christian. and the crosses are a symbol of the dead babies soul. How you take it is your thing.
  152. Profile photo of Shellie84
    Shellie84 Female 18-29
    4197 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 5:20 pm
    ahh ok loss of the soul

    told ya im tired lol

  153. Profile photo of Aeladil
    Aeladil Female 18-29
    513 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 5:22 pm
    I know, something that sounds so easy usually isn`t. But most women that are raped are getting their butts to the police fast and from their they go to the ED for a rape kit which includes a D&C. Those that don`t go because they`re ashamed are usually (though not always) raped by family members, spouses, friends, or partners. Speaking from experience, I understand the embarassment, but it`s still something that has to be done.

    More education is needed, I think, to help girls who may end up raped and in this situation know that there`s nothing to be ashamed of. They weren`t in the wrong.

  154. Profile photo of londoncallme
    londoncallme Female 18-29
    112 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 5:24 pm
    Shellie, I know contraception is not 100% effective but it sure as hell limits the chances of getting pregnant. And if someone was not ready to be pregnant then why are they having unprotected sex? Cuz that`s the easiest way to get pregnant, although it doesn`t always work for those people who want to have children.
    Also, the adoption issue deals more with american society`s view on adopted children then anything. It`s very hard for some people to adopt. that`s why there is in-vitro, another option to have one`s own child, not someone else`s.
    I also am aware that women who have abortions can hurt emotionally because of their decision.
    Aeladil, thank you for pointing out the option for women who have been raped. But that kinda has some issues with it. Because of the statistics of rape victims who report rape compared to those who have been. I also agree with your statement, "If a girl isn`t ready for the consequences of her actions then she shouldn`t be involved in those
  155. Profile photo of Shellie84
    Shellie84 Female 18-29
    4197 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 5:24 pm
    "More education is needed, I think, to help girls who may end up raped and in this situation know that there`s nothing to be ashamed of. They weren`t in the wrong."

    Absofrickinlutely, I`m with ya on that one

  156. Profile photo of Shellie84
    Shellie84 Female 18-29
    4197 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 5:28 pm
    Londoncallme - I was on the pill and used condoms and I still fell pregnant at 16 (regretably I shouldn`t have been, but we are all young and dumb at that age)

    Anyway I fell pregnant regardless of the precautions I took. I chose to keep my son because I felt I could do it. I was failing at school and I was young, but I still done it.

    Anyway point of that dribble was it still happens, even though it is rare. Am I making sense? lol

  157. Profile photo of Shellie84
    Shellie84 Female 18-29
    4197 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 5:29 pm
    now I sound like an uneducated douche lol

  158. Profile photo of Mur-is-bored
    Mur-is-bored Female 13-17
    274 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 5:43 pm
    "Fine. Tumors. Tumors do not always kill (Humans, which babies will become, do not always kill) and can be demonstrated to be alive."

    And just how are these tumors demonstrated to be alive?

  159. Profile photo of Mur-is-bored
    Mur-is-bored Female 13-17
    274 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 5:50 pm
    "a belief and a crime are two very different things, it is widely recognised and accepted that stealing is a punishable offence however when people get they`re religeous beliefs involved aka crosses symboling the death of all aborted babies it becomes a pathetic attempt to force views onto people. As if the mothers of those children arnt grieving enough as it is without having blatent guilt-trips shoved in they`re face."

    Again, is it really the crosses that are bothering you? Because it`s not just a religious view, it`s determining whether or not we`re killing our own human beings-murder is against the law and unethical no matter what religion you are. That Pro-life group can replace the crosses with regular tombstones and it would be the same concept.
    Also, why are women who WILLINGLY abort their children grieving? If they did it by their own choice, why do they regret it? Because they know it`s wrong. If their life is threatened, that`s different.

  160. Profile photo of Mur-is-bored
    Mur-is-bored Female 13-17
    274 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 5:58 pm
    "primetimekin, the women are judged. Are they not shunned, abused? Isn`t the point of the crosses to point out what women are doing is "wrong"?"

    Shellie: And the women who have abortions end up regretting it and grieving their loss for the rest of their lives. Therefore, they know it`s wrong. So why did they do it in the first place?

  161. Profile photo of Mur-is-bored
    Mur-is-bored Female 13-17
    274 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 6:01 pm
    "Yes, there is adopting, but a lot of adopted kids do not have happy endings and get a proper home for life. Not only that, there is the emotional side for the mother to carry the baby for 9 months and hand it over. (I did say could not care for the child, not could not feel for it)"

    What happens is that the woman becomes emotionally attached to the baby.
    Isn`t the whole point of abortion to get rid of the child before you become emotionally attached, because deep in your heart you want your child and you`ll miss them for the rest of your life. You`ll always think "What would have happened".

  162. Profile photo of randyintwin
    randyintwin Male 50-59
    730 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 6:02 pm
    I don`t think the guy in the pink shirt has to worry much about getting a woman preggers! u go girl!! lol
  163. Profile photo of Mur-is-bored
    Mur-is-bored Female 13-17
    274 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 6:04 pm
    "id rather people give the baby they can`t care for up for adoption, but people just dont want to deal with being pregnant and its their body their choice, id personally rather see it legalized then people dying trying to do it in their closest with their coathangers."

    Honestly, if someone is going to try to perform an abortion on themselves with a coathanger, they need mental evaluation. No one in their right mind would do such a thing. The pain would be brutal, and they would undoubtedly injure themselves.

  164. Profile photo of londoncallme
    londoncallme Female 18-29
    112 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 6:04 pm
    Mur there are several reasons why a woman might grieve the loss of an aborted child. Even people who know something is wrong might do it for reasons that are unknown to you or me. So, don`t go judging the women who are grieving because you don`t understand why they are grieving in the first place. Don`t judge people based on what little you know about their situation.
  165. Profile photo of Mur-is-bored
    Mur-is-bored Female 13-17
    274 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 6:09 pm
    "I`d rather a couple be ready to introduce a child to the world (and be able to care for it and give it a good home) than to be forced to have a kid, put it up for adoption where it may or may not be put into a family, or worse yet, keep the kid themselves and mistreat it because they felt their life was taken away."

    Would a good parent really abuse their kid because of something that was not their fault. Would they really use that against their child and tell them "I didn`t want you. You were a mistake. You ruined my life."??? Would someone really do that?

    Most parents wouldn`t. Most parents would grow to love their child and they were never regret the decision they made.

    My friend was going to be aborted, even though her mom was married and had a good job. She just didn`t want kids. Well this girl survived the saline solution,thank God. She`s perfectly fine. I don`t know where I would be without her. And her mom is happy she survived too, but she regrets tr

  166. Profile photo of Mur-is-bored
    Mur-is-bored Female 13-17
    274 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 6:15 pm
    Londoncallme,
    I`m not judging the women. I`m judging the situation. I understand it`s a hard decision, but what I don`t understand is why they are grieving if they willingly killed their child? It just doesn`t add up. Wouldn`t you think that they would only grieve if they regretted their decision?

    Also, if I murdered a full grown human being, it wouldn`t matter what reason I had. It`s still murder and I would still be put away for a VERY long time.

  167. Profile photo of londoncallme
    londoncallme Female 18-29
    112 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 6:34 pm
    Shellie: I do understand where you are coming from. There is always that possibility. Try as we might all of us who are sexually active have that possibility. You are making a lot of sense to me, don`t worry. And you don`t sound like an uneducated douche. You sound like someone talking from experience. (I`m still quite young and I have been dumb... I think that maturity is hard to come by...)

    Mur: You have a point about that. I`m sorry for assuming that you are judging the women. And sometimes people make decisions they regret... We`re only human.

    Damn... I feel like I`m ripping my hairs out with frustration over this... Why can`t any decision be simple? For me, it`s far more difficult because I can see both sides and I have a hard time understanding where I stand technically. For me, the biggest thing is educating people. If more people knew there options then there would be less of this happening. I don`t know if the world would be perfect, but at least more people would know.

  168. Profile photo of Mur-is-bored
    Mur-is-bored Female 13-17
    274 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 6:41 pm
    londoncallme: Let me try to help you find your position on this subject.

    If you believe that abortions are wrong if used as a birth control method, if you believe that life begins at conception, if you believe that abortions should only be performed under rare circumstances where the woman`s or the child`s health are at risk, and you believe in other forms of birth control (i.e. condoms, pills, abstaining from sex), you are most likely Pro-Life.

    If you believe that it`s the woman`s decision regardless of the situation, you are most likely Pro-Choice.

  169. Profile photo of Mur-is-bored
    Mur-is-bored Female 13-17
    274 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 6:45 pm
    Also, I think it`s great that you are for sexual education! If more people knew about all the ways to prevent pregnancy and were provided with proper protection, there would be less abortions.
    I think that if women first understood the emotional effects of having an abortion, the abortions numbers would decrease also.
    I`ve always thought it would be a good idea for people to view their child on an ultrasound before having an abortion. Then, they can look and decide for themselves if the baby is alive. Most people would agree it is after viewing it on ultrasound.
  170. Profile photo of Shellie84
    Shellie84 Female 18-29
    4197 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 7:08 pm
    My babies looked like fish on the first ultrasound :)

    Thanks London, glad I did make sense to someone lol

    Mur I can see where your coming from. It is truly a horrible decision, and for a lot of women the reason they grieve is because it`s like a miscarriage. It`s a death, simple as that. But they aren`t grieving cause it`s wrong. It`s wrong in your opinion. I dunno, some cases it`s wrong (when people get pregnant 5 times and abort 5 times because they are too lazy to use contraception)

    As for people abusing their kid because they were born, it happens. I know a chick who wouldn`t take care of her baby (had at 16 I think) and when he was 2-ish she fobbed him off onto her grandparents, just so she could go out and party and use drugs. That kid is wild, seriously, he is one of those demon kids you see around wrecking everything, swearing. His grandparents love him and provide for him beautifully, but deep down he knows he`s not wanted.

  171. Profile photo of alice_
    alice_ Female 13-17
    95 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 7:12 pm
    First of all I am pro-choice.
    Second I beleive men have no place in a debate like this.
    Third, if the "baby" is really no more than a tumor than there is no harm in excising it, unless you beleive it has a soul. In that case you should keep the damn thing and stay out of other people`s uteruses plzkthnx.
  172. Profile photo of jolindie
    jolindie Female 18-29
    100 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 7:12 pm
    how can you even dumb yourself down enough to compare a human life to a tumor. sounds to me like using lots and lots of little stupid "points" to prove something that really can`t be proved with logical thinking
  173. Profile photo of alice_
    alice_ Female 13-17
    95 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 7:14 pm
    "Honestly, if someone is going to try to perform an abortion on themselves with a coathanger, they need mental evaluation. No one in their right mind would do such a thing. The pain would be brutal, and they would undoubtedly injure themselves."

    Unfoutunately, you are wrong. If a woman can`t get an abortion any other way and having that baby is going to destroy her life then she very well might resort to illegal means. More likely she would try an herbal inducer first, though.

  174. Profile photo of jolindie
    jolindie Female 18-29
    100 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 7:18 pm
    grown enough to get yourself pregnant, you`re grown enough to accept responsibility for your actions. you wanna just be a kid and go party and whatnot, and if a baby would "ruin" your life, you really shoulda thought about the whole package
  175. Profile photo of alice_
    alice_ Female 13-17
    95 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 7:18 pm
    "how can you even dumb yourself down enough to compare a human life to a tumor. sounds to me like using lots and lots of little stupid "points" to prove something that really can`t be proved with logical thinking"

    Oh yes, it can. At an early state, a fetus is no more than a clump of cells feeding off the body without concious thought or feeling. :)

    Late-term abortion, where the baby is aware and concious, is wrong.

  176. Profile photo of jolindie
    jolindie Female 18-29
    100 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 7:21 pm
    does a tumor lead to a birth? a tumor is not a human life, it just can`t be argued.
  177. Profile photo of alice_
    alice_ Female 13-17
    95 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 7:26 pm
    "grown enough to get yourself pregnant, you`re grown enough to accept responsibility for your actions. you wanna just be a kid and go party and whatnot, and if a baby would "ruin" your life, you really shoulda thought about the whole package"

    Not all people who consider having or have had an abortion are spoiled, selfish wh0res, you know. There are plenty of individuals who are poor, cannot afford or not educated about contraceptives and do get pregnant by accident. Once the baby is had, many mothers can`t bear to give it up-and children are expensive. Now they have to not only pay for food and clothing and medical expenses and day care, or quit their job, but take on a whole new psychological role that they may not be ready for-which is detrimental to their children. Back to birthing-not only, on a vainer note, does it fuchk up your body, but 6 percent of mothers are affected with post-traumatic stress disorder after birth, which can last long after birth, adopti

  178. Profile photo of alice_
    alice_ Female 13-17
    95 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 7:29 pm
    "does a tumor lead to a birth? a tumor is not a human life, it just can`t be argued."

    Which is why I said late-term abortion is wrong. At this time the fetus does not act like a tumor anymore. Tumors do not often grow into babies, I understand that. Good job at spotting that critical difference!

  179. Profile photo of jolindie
    jolindie Female 18-29
    100 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 7:33 pm
    im pretty sure all people who have abortions got pregnant by accident, unless they genuinely enjoy killing babies. first off, if you can`t afford a baby, don`t take any chances whatsoever. there are support groups for mothers who need help raising a child, and it`s not too hard to get a monthly or weekly check from some organization or another. if they`re giving up school or a job for their kid, then they really should have been intelligent enough to prevent it in the first place. better to work a little harder than to kill someone that happens to bother you.
  180. Profile photo of londoncallme
    londoncallme Female 18-29
    112 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 7:36 pm
    Thank you Mur. I think I really am caught on my stance here... I`ve been raised among people who are pro-life, but I also see the importance of the choice. Which is why I`ll just take the stance of pro-education. I really think sex education is the most important thing in this issue. Cuz then a decision can be made with peace of mind and knowledge on the subject of all of one`s options.

    Jolindie: "grown enough to get yourself pregnant, you`re grown enough to accept responsibility for your actions." I disagree with that statement because girls can start being technically able to become pregnant as young as their pre-teens. Which is today`s world has very few that are capable of making a healthy decision regarding their sex lives imo. And I should stop there before I start getting all into the immaturity level that faces today`s youths... I`m pro-education!

  181. Profile photo of Shellie84
    Shellie84 Female 18-29
    4197 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 7:38 pm
    huzzah for pro-edumacation!!
  182. Profile photo of jolindie
    jolindie Female 18-29
    100 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 7:41 pm
    "Tumors do not often grow into babies, I understand that. Good job at spotting that critical difference!"

    talk down to me all you want. you can`t completely ignore the fact that that clump of cells would grow into a person. skirting around that fact proves what i said about using stupid little "points" to prove something that can`t be proven if you argue keeping the whole picture in mind.

  183. Profile photo of jolindie
    jolindie Female 18-29
    100 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 7:43 pm
    i`m referring to the fact that girls think themselves adult enough to have sex. "grown" as in the mental state. there`s no reason to manipulate words to prove points otherwise.
  184. Profile photo of londoncallme
    londoncallme Female 18-29
    112 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 7:47 pm
    my pro-education stance:
    educate people about all their options regarding sex and its consequences. let them make the choice themselves afterwards. that means teaching abstinence as well as the use of contraception... (I went to Catholic school and also to a public school in a very religious protestant town, so abstinence only education was what i got... I taught myself what I know through researching it myself and through the brief mention of it during my elementary school sex-ed days in a different city.)
    The more people know the better. And it`d be great if more people all over the US and world knew what their options were. Instead of just seeing the world in black and white... look at all the grey areas as well... We can`t prevent it all... but we can at least be educated about it.
  185. Profile photo of londoncallme
    londoncallme Female 18-29
    112 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 7:56 pm
    jolindie: you have a strong point about it being a mental state... For me, i see lots of people who consider themselves mature and aren`t... I`ve seen it all over the place... Heck, the last guy i had sex with i don`t think was entirely ready... mostly cuz when i told him about my pregnancy scare he nearly fell over and had trouble comprehending the fact that i was not pregnant. (I repeated myself three or four times before he got it... although i don`t think he really got it...)
    Maturity is a state of mind... And its also very subjective. Which is why I think that more people need to receive a proper education on sex. I know its hard for it not to be biased... But you can still cover everything currently known. Especially because in the US today sex-ed is an ongoing process throughout grade school and high school. You should learn more as you go along. And, heck, debating in the classroom isnt a bad thing. Everyone is entitled to have their own opinion.
  186. Profile photo of Shellie84
    Shellie84 Female 18-29
    4197 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 7:57 pm
    well said london :D

    Another point on that, here in australia it is virtually impossible to adopt kids. There is so much red tape it really is almost impossible. We need to make such things more accessible to familys who will genuinely look after kids

  187. Profile photo of londoncallme
    londoncallme Female 18-29
    112 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 8:03 pm
    also in my pro-education stance: the stance on unprotected sex... well, that`s a choice in my opinion just like abstaining and having protected sex... So, it needs to be something that is learned more about... heck, i wish they continued sex-ed through college...
  188. Profile photo of jolindie
    jolindie Female 18-29
    100 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 8:04 pm
    the thing is, up through high school, since the kids are forced to be there, it is generally the case that they will be sheltered from certain things including most controversial issues. and by the time they get out of high school, they`ve already made bad decisions due to their lack of knowledge. i do generally agree with you london
  189. Profile photo of londoncallme
    londoncallme Female 18-29
    112 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 8:11 pm
    shellie: I totally agree that stuff regarding adoption needs to be made simpler as well as something that is checked in on regularly... And it also needs to be something advertised in a way to get the families who will genuinely look after those kids. They aren`t unwanted... someone out there wants a child and in some cases adoption is there only option.
    (not every woman is as lucky as some of those barren women in genesis who were blessed with children by the grace of God.--Catholic education talking...)
    So, yeah... If more women and men were told that it`s ok to adopt then maybe there`d be more adoptions.
  190. Profile photo of primetimekin
    primetimekin Male 18-29
    7935 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 8:15 pm
    "Second I beleive men have no place in a debate like this. "

    So you get to choose whether to have a baby or not, but men don`t have the choice whether or not to pay child support?

    And a life by technical definitions is
    1. reproduction
    2. growth and/or differentiation through metabolism (which usually implies some form of respiration)
    3. adaptation to the environment
    4. the ability to distort entropy--that is, to increase or maintain the organization of the living system at the expense of the environment.

    At week 11 when it is considered a fetus it meets all these criteria. (Week 11 is when they receive sex organs. If not it would be sooner)

  191. Profile photo of londoncallme
    londoncallme Female 18-29
    112 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 8:17 pm
    jolindie: I understand that totally... the high school i went to was filled with a bunch of spoiled partying kids who had a party every weekend during my sophomore and junior years where i heard some uncomfortable stories of sex, drugs, and alcohol.
    I graduated from that school as a goody two shoes in so many ways compared to most of them. But during my junior year a girl got pregnant... I didn`t know about why she left school then until she came back her senior year. And she had seriously matured after that experience. She kept the baby and is now trying to make her son have the best life possible with both her and his father in it (although they aren`t married and share custody). She has even had trouble trying to do something that would be great for her son, but at the risk of losing him (which is completely unfair, considering she`s looking into quite a secure job.)
    I don`t know what to say except that sometimes I wish that kids didnt feel like they are forced to be anywhere.
  192. Profile photo of londoncallme
    londoncallme Female 18-29
    112 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 8:21 pm
    And what sucked about the high school i went to was that these kids` parents were spending thousands of dollars to send them to a school where many of them slacked off for the first three years... Most of the teachers and students considered their sophomore year the hardest, and when i first went to that school my sophomore year, I didn`t think it was the hardest at all... I worked hard, but i didn`t think it was too difficult unless you were lazy and too interested in after-school activities to pay attention...
    But then again, that can be high school...
  193. Profile photo of jolindie
    jolindie Female 18-29
    100 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 8:28 pm
    private schools are actually a different matter. the kids aren`t forced to be there, they are paying to be there. in this case the decision on what to teach usually belongs to the small community that governs the goings on of that particular school, or in some cases it just belongs to whoever has the deepest pockets.
  194. Profile photo of jolindie
    jolindie Female 18-29
    100 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 8:30 pm
    either way the kids are being sheltered from one view or another, unless they are taking the time to educate themselves fully
  195. Profile photo of londoncallme
    londoncallme Female 18-29
    112 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 8:32 pm
    jolindie that is so true... i saw that in my public middle school/junior high (6th grade through 9th) as well... although it was in a small town run by a group of elites. Basically if you weren`t part of the elite or didn`t have good enough connections your education got f**ked over...
    It`s not right and it`s not fair in any way.
  196. Profile photo of londoncallme
    londoncallme Female 18-29
    112 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 8:35 pm
    I still stand by my pro-education stance... Although it needs to be modified in many ways... I need more people to help create this stance as a valid position on this issue. Cuz it`s more than just pro-life and pro-choice. And maybe, just maybe, there may be some way to educate the masses... or at least let them know that they can teach themselves just as well!
  197. Profile photo of richoricho
    richoricho Male 40-49
    1036 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 8:56 pm
    You`ll guarantee a long forum with a topic like that. Well done.
  198. Profile photo of londoncallme
    londoncallme Female 18-29
    112 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 9:06 pm
    richoricho: I think this is already a long forum lol
    And I didn`t get into it until there were already 5-6 pages of forum before...
  199. Profile photo of afterglow38
    afterglow38 Female 18-29
    7 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 9:26 pm
    I think abortion is murder. If you choose to have sex, you understand what can happen. There are plenty of forms of protection out there. If it`s life/death, or rape/incest, then I can understand. But killing a baby because you weren`t careful? That`s ridiculous. If you aren`t ready for a baby, then take precautions.
  200. Profile photo of londoncallme
    londoncallme Female 18-29
    112 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 9:43 pm
    afterglow: as much as it would be nice that all things were that way... but sometimes even those who take precautions can get pregnant...
  201. Profile photo of actiongirl
    actiongirl Female 30-39
    13 posts
    May 7, 2008 at 11:40 pm
    Abortion is a medical procedure. Period. Why would anyone else have an opinion about a person`s medical procedure? If a stranger`s medical details disturb you that much, you need more distractions in your life. Seriously, people place much too much importance on human life. Yeah, I said it. People die everyday - old, young. It`s the process of living. The only real stress in life comes from people trying to either apply their own values to an other unwilling person or trying to avoid said value-forcer. You`re born and then you die. Or you`re not born. Whatever. Either way, your existence is truly so minuscule that it is laughable anyone would waste any of it arguing about non-issues like this. Be glad you`re not facing the choice - until you do, you have no idea what you`re talking about. Also, all these prolifers should pony up enough cash to support these would-be babies or pipe down.

    Abortion will always exist. Hopefully, a safe avenue to abortion will always exist.

  202. Profile photo of tispayne
    tispayne Male 18-29
    105 posts
    May 8, 2008 at 4:02 am
    how on EARTH is it anyone`s position to say what women can or cant do if it`s a personal decision that they need 2 make themselves!? it really pisses me off when MEN campain for anti-abortion, they have absolutly no right! leave the women to make their own decisions. it is THEIR pregnancy after all. not anyone elses!
  203. Profile photo of gakuzuki
    gakuzuki Male 18-29
    57 posts
    May 8, 2008 at 10:26 am
    What would of been better is if someone went up to the pro-lifers and said, "my aborted baby wasn`t christian."
  204. Profile photo of badnusty
    badnusty Male 18-29
    60 posts
    May 8, 2008 at 11:41 am
    in response to everyone who is against abortion every time a man ejaculates or a woman has a period isnt that another life lost? i guess that makes us all murderers then? stop being so dramatic, its a damned foetus.
  205. Profile photo of Mur-is-bored
    Mur-is-bored Female 13-17
    274 posts
    May 8, 2008 at 12:31 pm
    And you`re a damned atheist.
  206. Profile photo of Mur-is-bored
    Mur-is-bored Female 13-17
    274 posts
    May 8, 2008 at 12:33 pm
    And for your information, the cells have to begin rapid reproduction before it`s a fetus. Therefore, at the moment of conception, it`s a fetus. End of story. You kill a unborn fetus, you`re killing a baby.
  207. Profile photo of Mur-is-bored
    Mur-is-bored Female 13-17
    274 posts
    May 8, 2008 at 12:34 pm
    "it really pisses me off when MEN campain for anti-abortion, they have absolutly no right!"

    Yet they have to pay child support? It`s their child too.

  208. Profile photo of Mur-is-bored
    Mur-is-bored Female 13-17
    274 posts
    May 8, 2008 at 12:35 pm
    "Either way, your existence is truly so minuscule that it is laughable anyone would waste any of it arguing about non-issues like this."
    If your existence is truly so miniscule that it is laughable, can I kill you?
    Would you like to argue that point?
  209. Profile photo of Mur-is-bored
    Mur-is-bored Female 13-17
    274 posts
    May 8, 2008 at 12:36 pm
    Sorry about the atheist comment.
    You pissed me off.
  210. Profile photo of Mur-is-bored
    Mur-is-bored Female 13-17
    274 posts
    May 8, 2008 at 12:39 pm
    "Abortion is a medical procedure. Period. Why would anyone else have an opinion about a person`s medical procedure?"

    If you had a medical procedure and it resulted in your death, your family and close friends would be devestated and furious. The doctor who performed surgery on you would lose his job, be sued, and be put away. So yeah, people would have an opinion if a medical procedure caused your own death.
    ...like it does every time someone aborts their child.

  211. Profile photo of Mur-is-bored
    Mur-is-bored Female 13-17
    274 posts
    May 8, 2008 at 12:42 pm
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_sTjJ-3Nd...

    Interesting how the girl has no real points.

  212. Profile photo of Mur-is-bored
    Mur-is-bored Female 13-17
    274 posts
    May 8, 2008 at 12:43 pm
    http://www.christianshirts.net/images/de...

    Interesting thought.

  213. Profile photo of Mur-is-bored
    Mur-is-bored Female 13-17
    274 posts
    May 8, 2008 at 1:00 pm
    This video is a little on the religious side, but regardless of religion, I think that everyone can agree that even a baby with a life threatening disease can touch many people.
    This is one reason why babies with threatening diseases and disabilities should not be aborted. Throughout their short lifetime, they can still give their parents and families so much joy.
    Very touching.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=th6Njr-qk...

  214. Profile photo of Mur-is-bored
    Mur-is-bored Female 13-17
    274 posts
    May 8, 2008 at 1:15 pm
    Look at the fetus at 8 weeks. It has arms, legs, eyes, and organs, yet it`s not a human and can be aborted.
    The baby at 18 weeks can still be aborted, yet it`s conscious enough to learn how to suck it`s thumb.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2l1-kvKo...

  215. Profile photo of Mur-is-bored
    Mur-is-bored Female 13-17
    274 posts
    May 8, 2008 at 1:29 pm
    Quotes with points we need to think about before aborting children (some are religious, some are not. One is an actual abortion physician):

    "It is a poverty to decide that a child must die so that you may live as you wish" -Mother Teresa

    "Abortion is advocated only by persons who have themselves been born"
    -Ronald Regan

    "If you are pro-choice please go to your mother tonight and thank her for being pro-life"
    -Author Unknown

    "They are never allowed to look at the ultrasound because we knew that if they so much as heard the heart beat, they wouldn`t want to have an abortion."
    Dr. Randall, abortion physician

    I think it`s very disturbing that an abortion physician would admit that, but at least he`s honest, right???


  216. Profile photo of Mur-is-bored
    Mur-is-bored Female 13-17
    274 posts
    May 8, 2008 at 1:36 pm
    "Also, if the unborn aren`t human, then why are we putting those who kill them in prison?"

    Who said this? No, it wasn`t a pro-choice leader. It was Stephen A. Douglas, and he was defending slavery and the right of every slave owner to decide whether their actions were right or wrong. He was pro-choice.

  217. Profile photo of Mur-is-bored
    Mur-is-bored Female 13-17
    274 posts
    May 8, 2008 at 2:01 pm
    Partial birth abortion: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6vnOaq7n...

    These are the types of abortion that are performed today:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvshMADC7...

    (Not graphic. The first one is a video illustrastion and the second one is an actual ultrasound of an abortion. The second one is very sad, seeing that it is still performed today).

  218. Profile photo of badnusty
    badnusty Male 18-29
    60 posts
    May 8, 2008 at 2:04 pm
    omgz chillax, and yer im an athiest. Also alot of species of animals in times of need EAT they`re offspring in order to survive! Yet we dont see them protesting around with lame little white crosses.
  219. Profile photo of Mur-is-bored
    Mur-is-bored Female 13-17
    274 posts
    May 8, 2008 at 2:06 pm
    And killing a child because you don`t want them to live a hard life is wrong. Just because their parents don`t want them and will probably abuse them doesn`t mean they should be killed, they should be given up for adoption.

    Killing children to "protect" them from a life of Hell implies that we should also kill everyone else in the world who is ALREADY living a life of Hell. If you are so eager to kill unwanted babies out of misplaced compassion, why are you not also eager to kill the masses of starved and diseased people in the world? Isn`t killing them a necessary evil? See the contradiction?

  220. Profile photo of badnusty
    badnusty Male 18-29
    60 posts
    May 8, 2008 at 2:08 pm
    mur ur just posting for posts sake now arnt u?
  221. Profile photo of Mur-is-bored
    Mur-is-bored Female 13-17
    274 posts
    May 8, 2008 at 2:12 pm
    "Also alot of species of animals in times of need EAT they`re offspring in order to survive!"

    Okay, some species eat their offspring to SURVIVE (very few I`m assuming). We don`t abort babies so WE can survive, we abort babies so THEY don`t survive. Humans often abort babies out of their own selfishness, so that they can live their life in the way they want to, but in all reality, they made their choice when they decided to have sexual intercourse.

  222. Profile photo of Mur-is-bored
    Mur-is-bored Female 13-17
    274 posts
    May 8, 2008 at 2:13 pm
    No, I`m posting to prove a point.
    And to answer all the questions that are going to be asked.
  223. Profile photo of Mur-is-bored
    Mur-is-bored Female 13-17
    274 posts
    May 8, 2008 at 2:16 pm
    And I`m sorry for all the posts. I just now realized how many there are. I just get so angry and determined!!!
  224. Profile photo of badnusty
    badnusty Male 18-29
    60 posts
    May 8, 2008 at 2:17 pm
    erm at the end of the day the child is dead whether its eaten alive or aborted, at least we dont wait a whole 9 months, give birth then kill the baby.
  225. Profile photo of badnusty
    badnusty Male 18-29
    60 posts
    May 8, 2008 at 2:18 pm
    yer same i think at the end of the day weve both got our opinions and its a good thing we stick by them ;)
  226. Profile photo of Mur-is-bored
    Mur-is-bored Female 13-17
    274 posts
    May 8, 2008 at 2:22 pm
    "Or maybe it`s only alive until the mother or someone else says it`s alive...???
    So why can`t women give birth and THEN kill their babies??? Let`s just pretend it`s not alive and then get rid of it. Put it out with the trash. Who cares? Was it even human anyway?
    Also, babies were sometimes LEGALLY aborted at FULL TERM up until 2003!!! And have you seen the sentence for performing or recieving a partial birth abortion??? Only a fine...or less than 2 years in prison!

    LESS THAN 2 YEARS in prison does not, nor will it ever, pay for a life that will never get a chance to live.

    If someone sucked my brains out through a tube and cut off all my limbs, I would hope to God Almighty that they would get more than 2 years in prison." (taken from my earlier post)


  227. Profile photo of Mur-is-bored
    Mur-is-bored Female 13-17
    274 posts
    May 8, 2008 at 2:24 pm
    No, you`re wrong in your last post.
    If I had an opinion that slavery (or murder, or rape, or racism) is right, would it be good that I stick by my opinion? Or would you try to enlighten me?


  228. Profile photo of 46885
    46885 Female 18-29
    45 posts
    May 8, 2008 at 4:16 pm
    What about innocent people that WERE born that are dying? Wars, bombings, etc? Who is putting up crosses for them? RAWANDA people! Forget abortion for now...
  229. Profile photo of jolindie
    jolindie Female 18-29
    100 posts
    May 8, 2008 at 5:03 pm
    usually people that are born and then die do get a cross, or some type of headstone/memorial/at least some sort of mourning. apparently to many people an unborn baby doesn`t deserve this. i see no reason why someone who feels grief for these people can`t put up a memorial for them since their mothers won`t.
  230. Profile photo of Mur-is-bored
    Mur-is-bored Female 13-17
    274 posts
    May 8, 2008 at 5:09 pm
    War of Independence (25,000)
    Quasi-War (20)
    Barbary Wars (35)
    War of 1812 (20,000)
    1st Seminole War (30)
    2nd Seminole War (1,500)
    Mexican-American War (13,283)
    3rd Seminole War (26)
    Civil War (623,026)
    Indian Wars (919)
    Spanish-American War (2,446)
    Phillipine War (4,196)
    Boxer Rebellion (37)
    Mexican Revolution (35)
    Haiti Occupation (146)
    World War 1 (116,708)
    World War 2 (407,316)
    Korean War (36,914)
    Vietnam War (58,169)
    El Salvador (20)
    Beirut (266)
    Persian Gulf Support (39)
    Invasion of Grenada (19)
    Invasion of Panama (40)
    Gulf War (269)
    Somalia (43)
    Bosnia (12)
    Afghanistan (482)
    Iraqi- (4,000 so far)

    Total- 1,314,996

    Accidental falls (12,000)
    Drownings (4,000)
    Poisonings (6,000)
    Car accidents (40,000)
    Suicides (30,000)
    Homicides (25,000)

    Total- 117,000

    Altogether Total- 1,431,996

    Totaly abortions since 1973- 48,589,993
    (1.6 million

  231. Profile photo of Mur-is-bored
    Mur-is-bored Female 13-17
    274 posts
    May 8, 2008 at 5:10 pm
    per year)
  232. Profile photo of Mur-is-bored
    Mur-is-bored Female 13-17
    274 posts
    May 8, 2008 at 5:12 pm
    Good point jolindie!
    These babies deserve some kind of memorial.
    Instead, they get thrown out with last week`s garbage. I wonder how many baby skeletons are laying in dumps right now.
  233. Profile photo of Mur-is-bored
    Mur-is-bored Female 13-17
    274 posts
    May 8, 2008 at 5:13 pm
    The majority of women undergoing an abortion give one or more of the following reasons:

    A baby would interfere with work, school, or other responsibilities (75%)
    Cannot afford to have a child (66%)
    Do not want to be a single parent or have Problems in the relationship with their husband or partner (50%)
    Only 1% of women aborting say they have been advised that their unborn baby has a defect, and only 1% say they became pregnant by rape or incest. (Facts in Brief, The Alan Guttmacher Institute, September 1995.)

  234. Profile photo of Mur-is-bored
    Mur-is-bored Female 13-17
    274 posts
    May 8, 2008 at 5:15 pm
    The majority of women undergoing an abortion are:

    Young: 55% are under 25; 21% are teenagers. Unmarried: More than half (51%) of women who are pregnant and not married will abort their unborn baby. Unmarried women are 6 times more likely than are married women to have an abortion.

  235. Profile photo of Mur-is-bored
    Mur-is-bored Female 13-17
    274 posts
    May 8, 2008 at 5:24 pm
    Almost half of the women undergoing an abortion - - 46% - - have already had at least one previous abortion. Now, at least 15% of the women have had 2 or more abortions.
    At a minimum, more than 165,000 abortions are done each year to unborn babies who are in the second and third trimester.

    Given the large amount of abortions done each year, the actual number of abortions done after the first twelve weeks of pregnancy is quite large, even though it is a small percentage of the 1.3 million abortions done annually.

    Number of abortions Weeks of pregnancy
    (per year)
    90,000 13-15 weeks
    60,000 16-20 weeks
    15,000 21 or more weeks
    600 after 26 weeks (after
    6 months)

  236. Profile photo of Mur-is-bored
    Mur-is-bored Female 13-17
    274 posts
    May 8, 2008 at 5:25 pm
    The number of unborn babies who die every year from abortion is higher than the number of Americans who die annually from cancer (550,000) and from heart disease (700,000) combined. ( Daniel S. Greenberg in The Washington Post, May 8, 1996, p. A25.)

    I did my research. And WOAH....it`s the exact same date that he wrote that!

  237. Profile photo of bwhite12
    bwhite12 Female 18-29
    35 posts
    May 8, 2008 at 5:26 pm
    Mur...do you know that some people have twins at early of pregnancy? Well the strongest one normally absorbs the weaker one. Is that murder?

    I am neurtal in this, I mean I know that the baby can have potental, but killing one for stem cells also has potental.

  238. Profile photo of jolindie
    jolindie Female 18-29
    100 posts
    May 8, 2008 at 5:30 pm
    murder, purposely taking another`s life, accurately describes abortion. the death of a baby in the womb, without being purposely caused, is not murder. that`s not even a question. another one of those false points that people try to add up to win an argument
  239. Profile photo of jolindie
    jolindie Female 18-29
    100 posts
    May 8, 2008 at 5:31 pm
    also, no one has the right to kill another person because they want a piece of their body, no matter how much potential they see in them
  240. Profile photo of Mur-is-bored
    Mur-is-bored Female 13-17
    274 posts
    May 8, 2008 at 5:47 pm
    "Mur...do you know that some people have twins at early of pregnancy? Well the strongest one normally absorbs the weaker one. Is that murder?"
    Yes, I knew that. Supposedly left-handed people have a twin that absorbed back into the uterus. But I`m with jolindie on this one. That`s nature. Abortion is murder.

    "I am neurtal in this, I mean I know that the baby can have potental, but killing one for stem cells also has potental."

    Okay, well my view on that is this:
    ONLY if the mother`s health is in danger should people be able to choose to abort... UNDER THOSE CIRCUMSTANCES ONLY!! And if they do choose to abort if their health is at risk, then those babies can be used for stem-cell research, but ONLY those babies.
    Other abortions are needless and selfish. Just because your "not married","poor","too young","have other things to do other than own up to my responsibility" or "just don`t want a baby" doesn`t me

  241. Profile photo of Mur-is-bored
    Mur-is-bored Female 13-17
    274 posts
    May 8, 2008 at 5:51 pm
    "also, no one has the right to kill another person because they want a piece of their body, no matter how much potential they see in them"
    Great point!
    If you killed someone for their heart because you needed a heart transplant, would that be legal? No.
    But if someone dies (or is aborted for medical reasons in this case), we should make the best out of the tragedy and at least try to help more people through it (stem cell research).
  242. Profile photo of Mur-is-bored
    Mur-is-bored Female 13-17
    274 posts
    May 8, 2008 at 5:53 pm
    I`m probably getting annoying on here.
    I`m sorry. I really am.
    I`m just so determined to let people know the facts and get them to see it`s wrong and there`s other options.
  243. Profile photo of actiongirl
    actiongirl Female 30-39
    13 posts
    May 8, 2008 at 6:04 pm
    Mur...PLEASE stay out of politics! I couldn`t read your last 10 posts or so. So willfully ignorant. Either you`re not old enough to drink or you`re experiencing some severe post-abortion remorse. Nevermind, I just checked - 13-17 indeed.

    There`s a reason extremists use college campuses for their propaganda - young impressionable minds yearning to identify with a cause. Easy to find worker bees. Look at how passionate they get. ^^^

    No way should any woman - especially underage - have to pay for an adolescent mistake for the rest of their lives.

    Mur - go preach elsewhere please. Come back when you start shaving your legs. And by the way, people die in hospitals every day with no one to contact. You logic is riddled with religion. Sorry.

    Don`t like abortions? Don`t have one.

  244. Profile photo of Mur-is-bored
    Mur-is-bored Female 13-17
    274 posts
    May 8, 2008 at 6:29 pm
    Excuse me action girl,
    1. I do shave my legs you twat, so I guess I can stay?
    2. What makes me ignorant?
    3. What does drinking having to do with it? Nothing...look who`s ignorant now.
    4. I`m not even in college yet, so I have not been effected by any type of propoganda whatsoever.
    5. No way, that any woman underage, should be allowed to take the easy way out and abort their child instead of owning up to their responsibility. If they`re not mature enough to take care of a child or at least use proper protection, they`re not mature enough to be having sex.
    6. What does people dying in hospitals everyday have to do with abortion? At least they die naturally instead of being MURDERED!
    7. I never even mentioned my religion. I can name about 20 of my atheist friends who are pro-life.
    8. I won`t have an abortion, because hopefully by the time I`m having sex they`ll be illegal(not that I would be foolish enough to have one anyway)
  245. Profile photo of Mur-is-bored
    Mur-is-bored Female 13-17
    274 posts
    May 8, 2008 at 6:31 pm
    9. Talk down to me all you want. I don`t give a poo. I know what`s right, and I`m trying to enlighten other people on the subject.
    10. Who`s logic is riddled now?
    11. You just got owned by a 15 year old.
    12. People need to learn that they can`t win a debate against me. Why don`t they just give up?
  246. Profile photo of Mur-is-bored
    Mur-is-bored Female 13-17
    274 posts
    May 8, 2008 at 6:34 pm
    13. Since when is protesting abortion extremism?
    14. I`ll get into politics if I want. The whole reason America is so drating screwed up is because lazy, fatass people with no opinions are too selfish to get off their couch and go vote.
  247. Profile photo of Mur-is-bored
    Mur-is-bored Female 13-17
    274 posts
    May 8, 2008 at 6:39 pm
    Maybe I should put #13 this way:
    "so wanting to save fetus, a cause of which both religion and atheist believe in is religious extremism? So the saving of life is an extreme now?" - primetimekin pg. 3 of the posts
  248. Profile photo of actiongirl
    actiongirl Female 30-39
    13 posts
    May 8, 2008 at 6:48 pm
    Yeah, well at least I can stay up later on a weeknight than you! lol Are not - am too! Whatever.

    No longer having fun - I feel like I`m beating up on my kid sister. :-<

    lol regarding #11 - Sweetie, you don`t even own the room in which you sleep, much less me. I bet your mom wishes you`d run away before the weekend comes so she can enjoy an otherwise quiet Sunday. Your preteen self-righteousness is making my ovaries dry up.

    I seriously doubt you know 20 atheists. I can plainly envision you and your friends all in matching Hannah Montana shirts misinforming each other about abortions, each of you striving to prove your vast knowledge on the subject and not one of you knowing a single woman who`s faced the choice of abortion (besides your Aunt Victoria who has since turned her life over to the Lawd).

    Wait...I just have to laugh once more - "...the EASY way out..." HAWHAWHAW

    Thank god I`m not a teenager.

  249. Profile photo of actiongirl
    actiongirl Female 30-39
    13 posts
    May 8, 2008 at 6:50 pm
    Oh I`m sorry...you were STILL posting!
  250. Profile photo of Mur-is-bored
    Mur-is-bored Female 13-17
    274 posts
    May 8, 2008 at 6:55 pm
    What the drat are you rambling on about?
    Who can stay up later has nothing to do with it.
    Beating up on your kid sister has nothing to do with it.
    I never said I owned the room that I sleep in, or you, and that also has nothing to do with it.
    I actually have plans all weekend, and that has nothing to do with it either.
    My mom died of cancer last year, thanks for reminding me you jerk.
    Technically I`m a teenager, not a preteen.
    And I hope your ovaries do dry up. At least then you wouldn`t be able to get pregnant/have an abortion. You sound like you like to kill babies.
    How can you doubt I know 20 atheist people? You don`t know me, and in fact, I do. I can name them right now. Would you like me to?
    Who the Hell is Hannah Montanna? Is that the little bitch from Disney Channel who sings like a drating 3 year old? Yeah, I gave up Disney a long time ago, thank you very much.
    And I can`t believe you honestly think my friends and I have conversations about abo
  251. Profile photo of actiongirl
    actiongirl Female 30-39
    13 posts
    May 8, 2008 at 7:01 pm
    You hope my ovaries dry up because I sound like I like to kill babies?

    Hey, remember that time last year when your mom died of Cancer? X-(

  252. Profile photo of actiongirl
    actiongirl Female 30-39
    13 posts
    May 8, 2008 at 7:05 pm
    How sensitive of you to share such personal details about that girl you know, your aunt, your dad`s ex-wife, and your mom.
  253. Profile photo of Mur-is-bored
    Mur-is-bored Female 13-17
    274 posts
    May 8, 2008 at 7:07 pm
    Yes, I hope your ovaries dry up.
    Yes, I remember that time last year when my mom died of Cancer. I`ll never forget it.
    And I`m very sensitive. A
    And you`re still off the subject.
    You LOSE.
  254. Profile photo of Mur-is-bored
    Mur-is-bored Female 13-17
    274 posts
    May 8, 2008 at 7:09 pm
    And I`m glad your not a teenager, too. If you were, you would get slapped across the face for the way you bitch and use non-legitimate excuses and reasoning to prove a point that you don`t have.
  255. Profile photo of actiongirl
    actiongirl Female 30-39
    13 posts
    May 8, 2008 at 7:10 pm
    No I don`t - abortions are still legal.

    Drat, huh?

  256. Profile photo of actiongirl
    actiongirl Female 30-39
    13 posts
    May 8, 2008 at 7:13 pm
    ...really? Slapped across the face? Good thing fetuses can`t "...bitch and use non-legitimate excuses and reasoning to prove a point that don`t have." They would have been resentfully born just to be slapped across the face by a surly teenager.
  257. Profile photo of Mur-is-bored
    Mur-is-bored Female 13-17
    274 posts
    May 8, 2008 at 7:15 pm
    If you spent any time on this website, you would know there is censors for curse words.
    Drat=F*CK
    Poo=SH*T
    And it`s very immature for a 30-39 year old to be on this website. If you`re almost 40, act like it, get a life, and find something better to do, other than create a profile on a website called i-am-bored so that you can argue with teenagers and lose because of your ignorance.

    Abortions being legal has nothing to do with it either. Slavery was one legal. So was segregation. Or are you a racist, too? I wouldn`t doubt that you are.

  258. Profile photo of Mur-is-bored
    Mur-is-bored Female 13-17
    274 posts
    May 8, 2008 at 7:17 pm
    I never said it would be me to slap you across the face, though I would be more than willing to. I`d rather be slapped across the face than be aborted. You still have no reasoning...EPIC FAIL!
  259. Profile photo of Mur-is-bored
    Mur-is-bored Female 13-17
    274 posts
    May 8, 2008 at 7:21 pm
    You definetely just misunderstood me. Stupid. I don`t really think I`m that hard to understand.
  260. Profile photo of Mur-is-bored
    Mur-is-bored Female 13-17
    274 posts
    May 8, 2008 at 7:24 pm
    Oops, I just realized your the same old woman I owned earlier today.

    "Also, all these prolifers should pony up enough cash to support these would-be babies or pipe down."

    Well, with all the money that is spent on abortions every year, we would have enough money to support these real-live babies. Or how about adoption? Adoption agencies will pay for a child`s needs.

  261. Profile photo of actiongirl
    actiongirl Female 30-39
    13 posts
    May 8, 2008 at 7:40 pm
    Oh, because you said slap across the face...don`t mince your words. 2 posts from now you`ll be backtracking on just calling me a racist.

    Epic fail? ummm...no. Abortions are legal. I don`t have to reason, argue, or defend that. Not only is it legal, it probably always will be legal. Some woman`s probably having one right now. You`re the one getting all huffy over it and all I want is to point out that all the teenager hormone-hazed arguing isn`t going to change that. Enjoy and embrace the freedoms your sisters spent generations securing for you. If you don`t want to use them, if you never HAVE to...great! Then just don`t pee in someone else`s cereal because you "think" abortion is wrong. And by "think" I mean having overheard something someone said that sounded cool and informed enough that when repeated - especially by someone so young - would surely make you appear "...a mature and level-headed person for age..."

    Its immature to be o

  262. Profile photo of actiongirl
    actiongirl Female 30-39
    13 posts
    May 8, 2008 at 7:44 pm
    Its immature to be on IAB? Again with the `owning`? I think you actually have to win this argument before you can claim to `own` anything.

    "Owning" used to actually mean something online, but it has been diluted so much by static like yours that it sounds kind of babyish now to claim it.

  263. Profile photo of Shellie84
    Shellie84 Female 18-29
    4197 posts
    May 9, 2008 at 4:47 am
    yeah mur - seriously, it`s been like 2 days and your still going on about it. virtually taking up every page to yourself. Have your opinion, fine, but DO NOT force your views onto other people. I WILL support to mother. You CANNOT force me to do otherwise. Your not forcing me? Read back the last 10 pages mate.

    OK< over it now? fine. Good. NEXT!

  264. Profile photo of Shellie84
    Shellie84 Female 18-29
    4197 posts
    May 9, 2008 at 5:13 am
    oh yeah, reading past posts... those people who say "abortion bad!" but in the same sentence say "but it`s an exeption if it`s a health risk or rape or whatever..." seriously guys. You say it`s murder, but it`s ok under certain circumstances. It doesn`t change that fact it`s still murder in your eyes. Either go the whole hog or son`t go there at all. If it`s a risk to the mothers health it should still be murder to you. If she was raped it should still be murder to you.

    I mean, you guys don`t usually really care about the mother right, so what does it matter?

  265. Profile photo of Vindicate
    Vindicate Female 18-29
    511 posts
    May 9, 2008 at 1:10 pm
    primetimekin - Sure, kill the homeless, the mentally disabled, superobese, any people being kept alive by machines, etc, etc. Then you can have all the babies you want since natural selection will be back into play - meaning anyone that is subpar for survival status would be dying off so we`d NEED the super high birth rates to counteract the super high death rates. It`s no more cruel than the rest of the animal world.

    For most species, if there`s a baby animal born that won`t survive, it`s left to die. If it`s too small, too sickly, or otherwise lacking, the mother realizes there`s no point in trying to keep it alive, so leaves it to die and focuses on next year`s procreation.

    IF YOU DON`T WANT AN ABORTION, DON`T BLOODY HAVE ONE. But get YOUR religious views out of MY life. And bloody well don`t make LAWS based off the bible. That`s my bottom line.

  266. Profile photo of Mur-is-bored
    Mur-is-bored Female 13-17
    274 posts
    May 10, 2008 at 12:13 pm
    It`s not religous. There are atheists who are pro-life.

    actiongirl: I`m winning by proving points. You`re losing by saying stupid poo about Hannah Montanna. Prove to me why abortion should remain legal, and I`ll tell you why it shouldn`t be legal in the first place. Oh, that`s right...the only arguement you have is "It`s the mother`s body". I can counteragrue that with "It`s the baby`s body".

    "I don`t have to reason, argue, or defend that."
    Then if I go and murder someone just for the sake of it, I don`t have to reason, argue, or defend that? Just because you say something is okay, doesn`t mean it is. You should realize that.

    And you have yet to deny that you`re racist. And you have yet to argue against the point I made.

    Vindicate: That`s nature. If the baby is born and dies...then so be it.
    If you purposely kill the baby because you don`t want it, it`s murder.

  267. Profile photo of Mur-is-bored
    Mur-is-bored Female 13-17
    274 posts
    May 10, 2008 at 12:19 pm
    actiongirl: Yes, it`s immature for you to create a profile on IAB just so you can argue with me, especially if you`re 30-39. I read your posts. You only have 13. And they`re all in this forum. I can put 2 and 2 together.

    Vindicate: Why do you keep comparing humans to animals? Don`t you agree that we are much more supreme, civilized, and intelligent? If not, can I eat you? Cannibalism is part of the animal world.

  268. Profile photo of Mur-is-bored
    Mur-is-bored Female 13-17
    274 posts
    May 10, 2008 at 12:23 pm
    "If it`s a risk to the mothers health it should still be murder to you. If she was raped it should still be murder to you."
    If the circumstance is rape, yes it`s still murder and I disagree with it.

    If it`s a health risk, usually the baby and/or the mother dies. In this case, it would be murder to force a mother to carry a child that would kill her, especially if the child had no chance of survival itself. She the difference?

  269. Profile photo of Mur-is-bored
    Mur-is-bored Female 13-17
    274 posts
    May 10, 2008 at 12:27 pm
    "And by `think` I mean having overheard something someone said that sounded cool and informed enough that when repeated - especially by someone so young - would surely make you appear `...a mature and level-headed person for age...`"

    First off, I base my opinions on what I and only I believe is right. I don`t care what others think. I`ve done my research on the subject, and choosen the side that has a clear viewpoint, MANY clear reasons, and can defend their stance. I choose my opinions and my words wisely, and you have yet to be able to offer me a clear reason on why you believe abortion is okay, though I`ve offered you many reasons why it`s not.

  270. Profile photo of Mur-is-bored
    Mur-is-bored Female 13-17
    274 posts
    May 10, 2008 at 12:30 pm
    "Enjoy and embrace the freedoms your sisters spent generations securing for you."

    Sisters? Try brothers. You do realize that abortion was made legal by men, don`t you? In 1973, there were very few women involved in politics.

  271. Profile photo of Mur-is-bored
    Mur-is-bored Female 13-17
    274 posts
    May 10, 2008 at 12:33 pm
    Shellie: I`m not forcing my views on you. Yes, I`m trying to tell you my opinion. I`m trying to show you why abortion is wrong. I`m not holding you down and telling you to admitt you`re wrong. However, many women are FORCED to get abortions every year. Their boyfriend`s threaten them and even their lives. Now THAT is forcing you opinions and beliefs on someone. Another reason abortion should be illegal for those who don`t really need one.
  272. Profile photo of Mur-is-bored
    Mur-is-bored Female 13-17
    274 posts
    May 10, 2008 at 12:36 pm
    Okay, over it now? Fine. Good. NEXT!
  273. Profile photo of Arthur99
    Arthur99 Male 18-29
    3 posts
    May 10, 2008 at 3:47 pm
    You cannot disagree that Mur has some very valid points. If you want to win this debate, you must say something that cannot be argued against. She has proved and backed up everything she has said so far, yet you pro-choice people have not. And the things you do say to try to make a point are invalid and can be argued against. Good job Mur! I can tell you have done your research. You`re a very smart girl for your age. No matter what anyone says, you can still be intelligent at a young age. Most teenagers don`t even have the guts to stand up for what they believe in. Kudos to you! Keep it up!
  274. Profile photo of Shellie84
    Shellie84 Female 18-29
    4197 posts
    May 10, 2008 at 5:28 pm
    I`m not debating cause I suck at it. I`m saying I think women should have the choice without being made to feel like poo about it and have it thrown in their faces like all those crosses.

    health risk abortions are still "murder" in my eyes just as much as rape or choice. I agree that women who constantly have numerous abortions because they don`t want a child are really just stupid (because they are abusing a system made for woman who see no other way out) Adoption works to an extent, but the back up and red tape would make an overload of unwanted children in the world. Too many kids and not enough homes to go to. Look at Chinese ...umm what are they called...? adoption home thingys. They have actual death rooms in them so the babies only end up dying anyway, albiet more painfully then if those woman had a chance(or choice) to abort in the first place

  275. Profile photo of Shellie84
    Shellie84 Female 18-29
    4197 posts
    May 10, 2008 at 5:32 pm
    health risk abortions are still "murder" in my eyes just as much as rape or choice. - by that I meant people who are pro-life should be against abortion of any kind, some mothers are told it could kill them, but you hear stories where they have survived. So isn`t that a small enough chance that the baby and mother could live, so therefore you shouldn`t be aborting... did that make sense? lol

    If any side I`m really on, it`s with londoncallme (I think her name was) and that`s pro education

  276. Profile photo of Mur-is-bored
    Mur-is-bored Female 13-17
    274 posts
    May 10, 2008 at 6:54 pm
    Shellie,
    I don`t think the point of those crosses were to make women who have had abortions feel guilty. It was more to raise awareness about abortion and prevent people from having abortions and making a decision they might likely regret. If a woman was walking to an abortion clinic, and saw those crosses, she might change her mind.
    Also, adoption can cost upward of %15,000 in America, which is probably why people don`t adopt. If the government made it easier and less expensive, orphaned babies would have a home to go to.
    Also, China is a communist country. Their population is so high, that couples are only allowed to have 1 child. If they have more than one (even accidentally) the government forces them out of the country, makes them pay a fine, or forces them to have abortions. That`s probably why their orphanages are like that. It`s sad, but there`s not much to do about it. We should focus on eliminating abortion in America first.
  277. Profile photo of Mur-is-bored
    Mur-is-bored Female 13-17
    274 posts
    May 10, 2008 at 7:01 pm
    Also, I kind of understand what you are saying. Abortion, in my eyes, is murder no matter what. But if a woman has only a slight chance of survival, she should be able to choose BEFORE 8 weeks pregnancy. You see, if she was forced to carry a baby that endangered her health and she died, that would be murder, too.
    I believe a medical risk to the woman is the only way that she should be able to choose. And if there is a medical risk to her health, she should choose before 8 weeks. For those who have a medical risk, abortions should be available in SAFE places. But abortions should be very rare, and those are the only circumstances that they should be performed.
  278. Profile photo of Shellie84
    Shellie84 Female 18-29
    4197 posts
    May 11, 2008 at 2:19 am
    I think strict guidlines should be placed (some of these are I think) Only up to a certain period of time (say...2 1/2 months max) a certain amopunt of times someone is allowed an abortion (say twice, unless in extreme cases, for example, with a polie report or ruled by judge) stuff like that.

    I still think the woman should have the right to choose. If I fell pregnant tomorrow I would abort as I have 3 month old twins and a 7 year old and I personally cannot handle another baby (aside from other reasons) But to prevent being in that situation in the first place I will take every precaution I can to NOT fall pregnant

  279. Profile photo of Shellie84
    Shellie84 Female 18-29
    4197 posts
    May 11, 2008 at 2:21 am
    And to cut down on costs (didn`t know how expensive it was) people should pay up front. Say it cost $300 to do such a thing, woman should pay up front and then go in that day, or whenever they can be booked in. If you can`t cough up the cash, you don`t get it done, therefore you aren`t costing the taxpayers money.

    Although I do know that America pays their workers peanuts, so that needs to be sorted out first.

    Here`s for a raise! lol

  280. Profile photo of Mur-is-bored
    Mur-is-bored Female 13-17
    274 posts
    May 11, 2008 at 1:23 pm
    I also believe strict guidelines should be placed. However, I believe that we need to start slowly making laws that would decrease the number of abortions. The first one has already been made (Partial-Birth Abortion Act). I think the second one should be that everyone can have one abortion in their lifetime (unless it`s for medical reasons). If everyone was only allowed one abortion, it would decrease the number of abortion deaths greatly. The third law should be that you can only abort if the baby is 8 weeks maximum. 2 1/2 months maximum is very late in my opinion (even though abortion is allowed up until the 2nd trimester). Most women who abort at that time only do it because the father left or threatened them. The last law should be that abortions are completely illegal unless the mother has a medical condition. I say this because most of the women having abortions are teenagers who think "It`s no big deal, I`ll just have an abortion". If abortion was not available to them
  281. Profile photo of Mur-is-bored
    Mur-is-bored Female 13-17
    274 posts
    May 11, 2008 at 1:32 pm
    for those reasons, they wouldn`t view it as an easy way out of a tough situation. Because abortion would not be available to them, I believe it would cut down on the number of pregnant teens in the first place.

    Also, even though I don`t pay taxes yet, when I do, I do not want my money going towards something I don`t support. If they gave my taxes to orphanages and to kids who are loved and alive, it would be fine. But instead, they give tax dollars to abortion clinics, to dead babies and irresponsible (most of the time) mothers, even though the majority (57%) of American`s are pro-life. I think the states need to hold a vote on this issue, then make a decision regarding abortion laws. After that, I believe that all abortions should be handled at the state level until further decisions are made by our countries leaders and law-makers. Then, they can decide if the law would become national based on the number of pro-life states.

  282. Profile photo of Arthur99
    Arthur99 Male 18-29
    3 posts
    May 11, 2008 at 1:39 pm
    I`m with Mur on this one. I think that`s a legitimate and simple way to lower the number of abortions in America. You should really write a letter to your state and share your ideas. I`m sure people would like to hear your opinion, and you might be suprised at how many people would agree with you on the issue. Who knows, they might take your ideas on abortion laws into consideration!
  283. Profile photo of beersapper
    beersapper Male 18-29
    5 posts
    June 18, 2008 at 12:56 am
    Well, this footage happened at my university, in Stevens Point WI. Despite the seeminly political undertones, the real `issue` was use of school property. The student depicted, was, if I remember correctly, a student senator and the use of this area for this display (as the particular land was used for such displays) was not cleared through the student body. Clearly, the student was falling back on his personal upset over the implications this display caused. Now, I may not have my facts 100% on this, but its as I recalled reading about it in the paper.
  284. Profile photo of xiquiripat
    xiquiripat Male 18-29
    2422 posts
    June 28, 2008 at 6:24 pm
    I think that we should stop pregnancy in our own country and just import children from the third world. They make everything else for us...

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