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Date: 04/17/08 12:06 AM

121 Responses to American Flag Art Controversy

  1. Profile photo of fancylad
    fancylad Male 30-39
    18829 posts
    April 16, 2008 at 11:43 pm
    Link: American Flag Art Controversy - Outrage over social experiment art project that involves flag desecration at the University of Maine.
  2. Profile photo of 5577
    5577 Male 13-17
    518 posts
    April 17, 2008 at 12:10 am
    God bless America =`)
  3. Profile photo of luckyaxolotl
    luckyaxolotl Male 18-29
    188 posts
    April 17, 2008 at 12:14 am
    Meh, I`d rather be flag burnin`.
  4. Profile photo of TheBLB
    TheBLB Male 18-29
    237 posts
    April 17, 2008 at 12:15 am
    That`s a pretty cool art project. A blatant example of the cultural shift from right wing to far left. Even at the expense of the broken heart of anyone who isn`t left wing.

    Cool video. Props to the old guy for the balls, props to the artist for the balls.

  5. Profile photo of AnwarNova
    AnwarNova Male 18-29
    2076 posts
    April 17, 2008 at 12:16 am
    I think this demonstrates that people would rather shock and outrage people, than respect. Stupid.
  6. Profile photo of AnwarNova
    AnwarNova Male 18-29
    2076 posts
    April 17, 2008 at 12:18 am
    I understand doing something in demonstration...but who is this helping or benefiting.

    Wow.

  7. Profile photo of Kisato
    Kisato Female 18-29
    695 posts
    April 17, 2008 at 12:20 am
    What did those signs say on the backs of those guys standing on those flags?? I`m curious.
  8. Profile photo of BigBonny
    BigBonny Male 18-29
    2216 posts
    April 17, 2008 at 12:23 am
    I dont understand what was going on... flags on the floor.... what about it?
  9. Profile photo of Zerro
    Zerro Male 18-29
    628 posts
    April 17, 2008 at 12:24 am
    The piece was probably done by some attention starved kid who feels the easiest way to feel like they`re being paid any attention at all is through shock value...

    They want people to stop and say
    "OH MY! Who could do such a thing?!"
    This is what they feed off of.

  10. Profile photo of wowibrandon
    wowibrandon Male 13-17
    822 posts
    April 17, 2008 at 12:24 am
    i agree with AnwarNova

    this is just making an unnecessary problem for people

  11. Profile photo of pvj2000
    pvj2000 Male 18-29
    59 posts
    April 17, 2008 at 12:24 am
    Nice to see people respecting their country tho doesn`t exist here much anymore. But then again I prefer it with a Union Jack in the corner instead of those stars :P!
  12. Profile photo of arasheht
    arasheht Male 18-29
    83 posts
    April 17, 2008 at 12:41 am
    I think you fail to realize what the point of this piece of art is....art is created to raise controversy. An example many of us might be familiar with is Picasso`s art that went from realistic, to boxes and triangles...
  13. Profile photo of iamboredtooo
    iamboredtooo Male 18-29
    215 posts
    April 17, 2008 at 12:54 am
    there exists a difference of opinion between those who see a problem with this and those who don`t.

    creating and placing the art in this way makes people talk about the differences.

    debate is surely a good thing.

  14. Profile photo of Baalthazaq
    Baalthazaq Male 18-29
    4548 posts
    April 17, 2008 at 12:54 am
    So trolling is art now?
  15. Profile photo of Maxim86
    Maxim86 Male 18-29
    139 posts
    April 17, 2008 at 1:01 am
    Just because you are left-wing doesn`t mean that you don`t have respect for the flag. Those people who were standing on it are trying to be rebellious for no apparent reason.
  16. Profile photo of aerionix
    aerionix Male 18-29
    6 posts
    April 17, 2008 at 1:01 am
    It`s called performance art, and it is a legitimate art form. This video is disgraceful in its biased, one-sided portrayal of the piece and I for one would like to see the artists` statement about what point she`s trying to make. Ultimately, I think it`s completely ridiculous that we make such a big deal about a piece of cloth while we`re ignoring the destruction of so many much more meaningful parts of our country. There`s a reason free speech is covered in the First Amendment.
  17. Profile photo of dragosal
    dragosal Male 18-29
    1630 posts
    April 17, 2008 at 1:09 am
    art or not, it is thier right to do so whether we like it or not
  18. Profile photo of blargendarg
    blargendarg Male 30-39
    376 posts
    April 17, 2008 at 1:13 am
    gee, who to pick... the art student who tries to make a point in the cheapest, most overdone way possible, or the addled senior citizen veteran who still doesn`t understand what he fought to defend.

    people are stupid.

  19. Profile photo of MagicPaul
    MagicPaul Male 18-29
    653 posts
    April 17, 2008 at 1:17 am
    i don`t get whats going on. neither do i care.
  20. Profile photo of biffyclyro27
    biffyclyro27 Male 18-29
    151 posts
    April 17, 2008 at 1:41 am
    i found it really hard to believe that people are that pro America. I mean sure, you can be patriotic and all, butno one from any country can stand there and say that their country is perfect. And I`m guessing the art student was trying to express her negative views on America today. America has a lot of problems like any country.
  21. Profile photo of vilem
    vilem Male 18-29
    372 posts
    April 17, 2008 at 1:46 am
    its a flag..have a cry about it.
  22. Profile photo of jjcruiser13
    jjcruiser13 Female 18-29
    706 posts
    April 17, 2008 at 1:57 am
    Get over it. It`s not even all that disgraceful to have flags on the floor. If I find plastic flags that people stick in my yard I rip them up and throw them away. Whatever.
  23. Profile photo of beehappy
    beehappy Female 13-17
    209 posts
    April 17, 2008 at 1:59 am
    do i f-cking care about american flags? EVERYTHING IS ABOUT AMERICA THESE DAYS!!!!
  24. Profile photo of jjcruiser13
    jjcruiser13 Female 18-29
    706 posts
    April 17, 2008 at 2:00 am
    Also, nice use of a song about child abuse and then the abused child burning her parents in the video!
  25. Profile photo of JagaLubnaN
    JagaLubnaN Male 18-29
    46 posts
    April 17, 2008 at 2:12 am
    The video was very biased. But it did present a good argument: should citizens be allowed to burn their own flag under the freedoms granted to them in the Constitution? I say yes; just like how someone can go and say something like "F*ck beaners," they can because of their freedom of speech. This is the same, except with a flag.
  26. Profile photo of Surfingninja
    Surfingninja Female 18-29
    744 posts
    April 17, 2008 at 2:20 am
    I like the "goth" kid standing on the flag, dressed to the nines in new stuff from hot topic, looking just like all his other friends. Way to be counter-culture and rebellious, kid! Stand on the symbol of capitalism and corporate greed while you yourself help support it! GO YOU!
  27. Profile photo of AnwarNova
    AnwarNova Male 18-29
    2076 posts
    April 17, 2008 at 2:26 am
    lol surfingninja. agreed. I also would like someone to answer baalthazars question.
  28. Profile photo of murrymalty
    murrymalty Female 18-29
    2673 posts
    April 17, 2008 at 3:18 am
    its a f*uckin flag get over it jus cos they put a flag on the floor dont mean they hate USA
    get a grip
  29. Profile photo of pariahnola
    pariahnola Male 18-29
    649 posts
    April 17, 2008 at 3:49 am
    beside the fact that all of you are over looking the fact that this is a social experiment art project and that things like this usualy have a point and something to learn of, that aswell yall didn`t seem to get. i did any way what i really want to say is i freaking hate this world when will that damn apocalyps get here and stop the madness. seems like it will never get here. eh screw it
  30. Profile photo of pariahnola
    pariahnola Male 18-29
    649 posts
    April 17, 2008 at 3:53 am
    oh yeah i forgot to atcualy say what the point of the piece was about. its about how sybolism is so deep routed into out unconcious mind that we just step around something that is symbolic instead of walking on it. at least that is what i got out of it. and i think its genius. so about the apocolyps ........any one knbow about what time we should be expecting it?
  31. Profile photo of spocksbeard
    spocksbeard Male 18-29
    55 posts
    April 17, 2008 at 3:58 am
    I don`t get why Americans make such a big deal about a piece of fabric. Yes, you respect your country, I don`t see anything wrong in that, but a flag is just some cloth with some ink on it, why go so crazy about it?
  32. Profile photo of Surfingninja
    Surfingninja Female 18-29
    744 posts
    April 17, 2008 at 4:06 am
    Pariahnola: They could`ve used any symbol, but they chose the flag because they knew it would cause controversy. And that`s exactly what they got, then they bitched about it.
  33. Profile photo of pariahnola
    pariahnola Male 18-29
    649 posts
    April 17, 2008 at 4:15 am
    because if you can`t tell from all the media and things like that that come out of this country,everyone here is insain. basicly 1 out of every 4 people in america has a mental dissorder....usualy depression. so if you live in a house with three other people and they seem to be compleatly ok then that means the problem is you...........nothing on that apocolyps huh?
  34. Profile photo of tispayne
    tispayne Male 18-29
    105 posts
    April 17, 2008 at 4:16 am
    bloody americans. i doubt any other country in the world give THIS much of a damn about a symbol! crazy nob
  35. Profile photo of steven8124
    steven8124 Male 50-59
    116 posts
    April 17, 2008 at 4:18 am
    bigbonny from Europe. We are taught to respect our flag as early as grade school. It should never touch the ground, It should never be tread on,It should never be burned. If you notice most of the people walking around are making a consious decision not to step on the flag but step around it. These are true Americans who respect the flag. Our freedoms have one drawback and you are seeing it here. Even after 9-11 there are those who do not know what this symbol stands for or how lucky they are to live in this country.
    A proud American
  36. Profile photo of pariahnola
    pariahnola Male 18-29
    649 posts
    April 17, 2008 at 4:22 am
    maybe they could have used any symbol but i doubt that it would have worked if they used say a bald eagle or the statue of liberty or anything along those lines. they are all symbols of freedom and of this country but nothing is held more sacred then the flag and thats why they used it. if lady liberty was pictured on the ground i am sure no one would mind walking all over her.....much like what happens in everyday life, but the falg is held most dearly to this country. thats why it got used.
  37. Profile photo of pariahnola
    pariahnola Male 18-29
    649 posts
    April 17, 2008 at 4:24 am
    wow no one bother to mock me for the comments on the apocolyps yet i am shocked. so......................................when will that damn apocolyps get here!
  38. Profile photo of oinj
    oinj Male 18-29
    23 posts
    April 17, 2008 at 4:44 am
    steven8124, I agree, Americans are taught to `respect` the flag at a very early age. I went to preschool in America and already it was drummed into me. But that sort of obsession and cult of the national symbol is wrong and dangerous. Yes you should love your country, but countries are run by insignificant flesh-creatures, and THEY cant be trusted. Always question authority, power corrupts and so on and so forth.
    I`m not particularly happy with having been brainwashed as a child, especially given the controversial nature of that particular symbol throughout the world and some the atrocities it has been associated with over the past 50 yrs.
    Maybe the art in this is to ask where is this symbol going and are the US leaders really doing it justice? They definitely arent doing the Constitution and the Bill of Rights justice, but I dont see anyone getting upset over those far more important symbols.
  39. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5434 posts
    April 17, 2008 at 4:59 am
    oinj- if America is so bad, why does everyone else in the world fight, lie, cheat, and steal to get into her?

    The flag is a symbol of our great nation, and you can say we are brain washed or whatever.. but if you don`t like our country.. leave. Go see how things are in different countries. Go to Bosnia, Serbia, Japan, Mexico or Afganistan. Try to express yourself there. Go to England and talk about a royal like you talk about our President, see what happens there. Go to Northern Ireland, and see how great religious freedom is. Go to Croatia for that matter, and see how great religious freedom is.

    Respect for our country is something every American should have.. left wing or rightwing.

    I think this somehow gets back to Obama not wanting to wear our flag. If you don`t respect and love our flag for the freedoms you get here.. then you should leave America.

  40. Profile photo of adamtastic
    adamtastic Male 18-29
    66 posts
    April 17, 2008 at 5:12 am
    its a flag, get over it.
  41. Profile photo of oinj
    oinj Male 18-29
    23 posts
    April 17, 2008 at 5:18 am
    elkingo- because of poverty.
    I left America and still have family/friends there, I have nothing against the flag, I`ve been to most of those countries you`ve mentioned and lived in two of them, the way the US democratic system is organised is ingenious and the American Constitution and Bill of Rights are beacons of democracy.
    But obviously you dont respect America if you want people who disagree with your view to leave... whats up with that? Why do you hate the Constitution?

    You can respect your country without refusing all criticism... I haven`t been to or heard of any perfect country (yet). Have you?

  42. Profile photo of Vikstar
    Vikstar Female 18-29
    399 posts
    April 17, 2008 at 5:27 am
    Actually, you can bad mouth the royals as much as you like in England! The national press does it most days and no-one bats an eyelid because we have freedom of speech.

    I felt sorry for the veteran. It must be hard to see artwork like that when you have put your life on the line for the country you love. BUT he was fighting to protect freedom and democracy and that`s exactly why a project like this ought to be allowed. The freedom of expression of the artist is something he was fighting to protect.

    I have never felt much towards the British flag - I think it`s nice, but I don`t treat it as being anything more than a representation of something - it`s the thing itself that should be treasured imo, not the representation of it. I do understand how important the flag is in the states though and I respect that.

    This art project is a (slightly stale) representation of the freedom that is much loved in America. This is my interpretation, anyway.

  43. Profile photo of farquaadhnch
    farquaadhnch Male 18-29
    1225 posts
    April 17, 2008 at 5:27 am
    Am I the only one who thinks that the arguments regarding flag desecration are weak on both sides? I respect the flag out of respect for the people who care, but I don`t care one way or the other.
  44. Profile photo of ClearSky87
    ClearSky87 Male 18-29
    227 posts
    April 17, 2008 at 5:29 am
    i was working at a bar and we had to stop serving alcohol at a certain time so we closed...then some non-nice individual kept asking 4 a drink and we said no and he kept saing "you would refuse a drink to a merchant marine veteran???"
  45. Profile photo of Kaizer250
    Kaizer250 Male 18-29
    777 posts
    April 17, 2008 at 5:32 am
    It`s a f*cking piece of patterned cloth! It`s nothing special.
  46. Profile photo of tofep
    tofep Male 13-17
    174 posts
    April 17, 2008 at 5:34 am
    what? i dont get what they were doing
  47. Profile photo of Rman1201
    Rman1201 Male 18-29
    247 posts
    April 17, 2008 at 5:35 am
    I hate how anything involving "the flag" or "the nation" is treated as sacred ground. Stop putting so much F-ing meaning behind it. Its a flag. Nothing more. Its not the lives of dead veterans, it doesnt mean wasted deaths in wars, all that shows is that veterens were successful in their fight to keep the freedom of speech and the freedom to do what you want so long as it doesnt physically infringe on someone else.
  48. Profile photo of bankvole
    bankvole Male 30-39
    959 posts
    April 17, 2008 at 5:36 am
    If only they got so upset about carpet bombing children with cluster bombs
  49. Profile photo of VikingGuy
    VikingGuy Male 18-29
    2160 posts
    April 17, 2008 at 5:46 am
    though i´m not loyal to any country i can say if i would see someone standing on the flag of the culture and society i belong to i would simply shoot them on spot because its simply a disgusting ammount of disrespect,regardless of which flag it is and which society and culture it belongs to,i wouldnt even have done that with nazi flags.And the disrespect to the veteran is also just outrageous,i would have stood by him in full support,he fought for what he believes in and what he thinks is right,anyone disrespecting him for that isnt a artist but simply a disgrace to mankind and freedom,i would have most likely picked up each and every flag,though i´m not loyal to it,out of respect and honor for those who are.This is not art,its a insult to a society and people.
  50. Profile photo of romboy
    romboy Male 18-29
    221 posts
    April 17, 2008 at 5:52 am
    Feel bad for the veteran. Dumb Mainers what will they do next?
  51. Profile photo of marysevier
    marysevier Female 18-29
    81 posts
    April 17, 2008 at 5:52 am
    I thought that veterans went to war to protect freedoms like self expression. The artist isn`t burning a flag or putting an american flag on the ground. he put his art on the ground.
  52. Profile photo of romboy
    romboy Male 18-29
    221 posts
    April 17, 2008 at 5:53 am
    Oh about the APOCOLYPSE last I heard was Dec of 2012
  53. Profile photo of VONLINE
    VONLINE Male 18-29
    578 posts
    April 17, 2008 at 5:57 am
    I say let them do it. You have to. But know the best way to let the "artist" know how you feel is to do exactly what most of the people in the video were doing. Walk around them, not on them. Like someone said before, the only people standing on them are the Hot Topic regulars. A part of this video actually made me feel good, seeing the vast majority people showing respect for our symbol. And that`s what it is, a symbol. Not just a piece of cloth with ink on it. We all have things in our lives that are representative of an abtract idea that we wouldn`t want tarnished. I`d say most people have a photo album or collection. How would you like it if someone destroyed that? Would it bother you? After all, they`re just pieces of paper with ink on them, right?
  54. Profile photo of ClearSky87
    ClearSky87 Male 18-29
    227 posts
    April 17, 2008 at 5:59 am
    bankvole...thank you

    i probly would have walked around any flag, just because i would assume somebody was using it

    also the flag is just a symbol...and people constantly draw the conclusion that if u do anything to it...you hate america and our troops

    though yea...it was probly some dumbass psychology major just trying to be `edgy` just to get attention...

    and those goth kids couldn`t care less about what they did...they just wanted attention because goths suck sooo much ass

    but i think its wrong for something to be taboo just because a veteran tells us so...does that work in every situation or just one involving some Sh*t-tasticly bad attempt at being original?

  55. Profile photo of Baalthazaq
    Baalthazaq Male 18-29
    4548 posts
    April 17, 2008 at 6:00 am
    So according to most people so far, trolling *is* an artform.... who knew.

    Beacons of free speech?
    Heroes of democracy?
    The light that guideth the way?

    Or just random arseholes?
    Personally, I`m going for the latter. You don`t need to be an American to recognise an attention whore.

  56. Profile photo of VikingGuy
    VikingGuy Male 18-29
    2160 posts
    April 17, 2008 at 6:01 am
    oh,before you go saying only goths stood on it,read my post page before and know i´m a goth,those where just respectless idiots and it wouldnt be changed if they wore white and rosey pink either.
  57. Profile photo of ClearSky87
    ClearSky87 Male 18-29
    227 posts
    April 17, 2008 at 6:02 am
    baalthazag is right...he/she was most likely an attention whore...

    but then again...so is he

  58. Profile photo of FxyRoxy777
    FxyRoxy777 Female 18-29
    652 posts
    April 17, 2008 at 6:12 am
    Seriously, no one knows what this man went through during the war to protect all that the flag stands for. God knows how many of his friends died around him while staying true to that flag. At the end of their battles and deaths of those around them, their victory was to be able to keep that flag standing at the end of the day. I`m not the most political person out there, but I can respect those who are. What was the point of them using American flags? To piss people off of course. Some war heroes are turning in their graves I swear...
    Those little goth looking kids stepping on the flag trying to "make a statement" are just looking for attention and to piss the guy off. I want to see what they`ve done in their lives to be proud of. The veteran should go step on Marilyn Manson or something and see how they like it :-p
  59. Profile photo of dsteenbock
    dsteenbock Male 30-39
    60 posts
    April 17, 2008 at 6:14 am
    I didn`t see any art at all. I saw flags on the ground and what looked like ripped up pieces of paper. Flags and trash.... doesn`t look like art to me.
  60. Profile photo of RelaxEnjoy
    RelaxEnjoy Male 18-29
    205 posts
    April 17, 2008 at 6:23 am
    i never understood the whole flaglove thing americans have going
    also a crapload of patriotism in these posts.. i`ve always found patriotism a weird thing to value

    that said, chances are the people that did this are just arses
    i would probably walk around the flag

  61. Profile photo of VikingGuy
    VikingGuy Male 18-29
    2160 posts
    April 17, 2008 at 6:27 am
    peeps,stop for a sec,a true goth would see it as respectless as i did,as i said before,those are just idiots,they come in all shapes and sizes and forms and can look like any element of society,the artist probably chose that shot just to spark even more bullpoo than he/she already has and i find it tasteless.It wouldnt matter if those people wore a white shirt and blue jeans or a fking chicken suit,theyre not goths but just respectless punks who think theyre making some sort of statement for a scene they WISH they belonged to but know drat all about except how to dress in a poor imitation of.
  62. Profile photo of VONLINE
    VONLINE Male 18-29
    578 posts
    April 17, 2008 at 6:40 am
    We mean no disrespect VikingGuy (at least not me). When you see people dressed like that, it`s just easy to pass them off with the goth name.
  63. Profile photo of VikingGuy
    VikingGuy Male 18-29
    2160 posts
    April 17, 2008 at 6:44 am
    k,just wanting people to stop generalizing due to some idiots doing stuff that the main body of whatever scene it is would beat them for,believe in america you call the hot topic people mallgoths anyways,theyre a sorta sad imitation and crossover of many groups usually who go around giving the respective groups bad reputations
  64. Profile photo of stevenash
    stevenash Male 18-29
    124 posts
    April 17, 2008 at 6:46 am
    these people are like those terrorists...easily offended....I thought U.S allow freedom of speech...it sound really hypocritical.
  65. Profile photo of CheesyQueso
    CheesyQueso Female 18-29
    2196 posts
    April 17, 2008 at 6:57 am
    whats the big deal its just a flag with ugly colors
    its a piece of cloth its nothing
    burn it, step on it, put it on the floor it shouldnt bother people its just cloth
  66. Profile photo of krabkat
    krabkat Female 18-29
    1261 posts
    April 17, 2008 at 7:04 am
    Has anyone here ever read the US FLAG CODE?? Did the artist? Just wondering. I`m all for freedom of expression, etc. and I understand the point in this type of art...it is basically a means to cause controversy. I just hope the artist and those who walked all over the flag understand that showing respect for the flag doesn`t mean a person cares about a `piece of cloth` - it means they understand what the flag stands for and what sacrifices were made in order for that flag to be in existence. They can show disrespect if they choose to...just as the veteran can show his displeasure - both, however, must conform to the US Flag Code...bet the artist has never read it!! It says the flag should never be placed on the ground or walked on. It`s a sign of disrespect. So I guess that`s what this whole art project was about - disrespect.
  67. Profile photo of explody
    explody Female 13-17
    104 posts
    April 17, 2008 at 7:09 am
    I see no art here, I just see some flags on the ground. Who organized this? Why? There needs to be more information on that. I`m in the Hot Topic crowd, and all of my friends are too. We all think this is retarded. Why would you step on a flag? What`s the point other than to just piss people off? I feel bad for the veteran, he fought for these people, and they should respect him, not yell at him. If I was there, I`d carefully step around the flags and be on my way. It all seems so pointless... And it may be just cloth for some of you, and it might mean the world to someone else. Can`t we all just respect each other`s opinions?
  68. Profile photo of Helium101
    Helium101 Male 13-17
    54 posts
    April 17, 2008 at 7:12 am
    hmm... stupid people doing stupid things.. America for you =)
  69. Profile photo of TheNineXXX
    TheNineXXX Male 18-29
    395 posts
    April 17, 2008 at 7:16 am
    http://atheism.about.com/od/flagburningd...
  70. Profile photo of maxmcd
    maxmcd Male 30-39
    75 posts
    April 17, 2008 at 7:18 am
    The real problem with this country is it`s divisiveness. If you don`t like the way something is done, do something constructive to change it, why do they feel the need to hurt/incense others when "attempting to make a change" I hate the way we`ve be become so polarized in the US, but I love my country. I respect the artist`s right to express their opinion, but they shouldn`t be able to do it at a public university; I`m sure if it was an homage to the ten commandments it never would have flew.
  71. Profile photo of Kalimdon
    Kalimdon Male 18-29
    114 posts
    April 17, 2008 at 7:42 am
    Silly old people, thinking that anyone cares what they think.
  72. Profile photo of VONLINE
    VONLINE Male 18-29
    578 posts
    April 17, 2008 at 7:50 am
    Watch this and tell me it`s just a piece of cloth. Make sure you watch parts 2 and 3 as well. Show the slightest hint of integrity.
  73. Profile photo of Zuki
    Zuki Female 18-29
    165 posts
    April 17, 2008 at 8:17 am
    It is disturbing to me to see so many disrespecting the men and women who have served in this country. I think it is a shame.

    About the flag? Personally I would have walked on it rather then around it. The flag is just the symbol. It only has the meaning you put into it.

  74. Profile photo of LazyMe484
    LazyMe484 Male 18-29
    10441 posts
    April 17, 2008 at 8:58 am
    Its not just a piece of cloth, its a flag. But it is just a flag, nothing more. Everything I saw here was predictable. This stunt was just a waste of time for many.
  75. Profile photo of leesah
    leesah Female 18-29
    1566 posts
    April 17, 2008 at 9:25 am
    ...I don`t get the `art` part.
    I get the attention whoring your name into the media and mainstream part...

    Saying a US Flag is /just/ a piece of cloth is like saying the Three Musicians is /just/ a piece of canvas.

  76. Profile photo of Lou-Saydus
    Lou-Saydus Male 13-17
    216 posts
    April 17, 2008 at 10:09 am
    im glad they will be dead in a few years. The american flag is a joke.
  77. Profile photo of Shiruba
    Shiruba Male 18-29
    108 posts
    April 17, 2008 at 10:15 am
    patriotism, nationalism, freedom...

    all lies...

    whats is a flag? the flag is not the country, the individual is not the country, who or what is really the country?

  78. Profile photo of Shiruba
    Shiruba Male 18-29
    108 posts
    April 17, 2008 at 10:22 am
    and by the way, attention whores are attention whores because they manage to get attention, if you dont call anybody "attention whore", they dont get attention... then.. well, you get the idea...

  79. Profile photo of Baalthazaq
    Baalthazaq Male 18-29
    4548 posts
    April 17, 2008 at 10:53 am
    Hey clearsky: Your MOM is an attention whore.
    I`m an artist. :P
  80. Profile photo of mjfoxman
    mjfoxman Male 18-29
    336 posts
    April 17, 2008 at 11:17 am
    Personally this makes no sense to me. The flag represents the country that allows u to have the freedom to do what u want as long as u don`t break the law. Even if u are pissed at the guy in charge of the government the government as a whole or whatever y would u desecrate the flag that represents your freedom to speak out against these people. The flag represents this country and the people in it and the people serving to protect it, people that desecrate our flag piss me off the most because i have family that are in the war and they weren`t forced to do it they did it because they believed it was the best thing for our protection. Personally if u desecrate, burn, or do anything to deface this country, then get the drat out of this country u don`t have to live here and if u hate this country that much u don`t deserve to live here
  81. Profile photo of itsdanielle
    itsdanielle Female 13-17
    30 posts
    April 17, 2008 at 11:23 am
    I think the way that man was treated was ridiculous. He`s a veteran, he fought for our right to freedom, and the flag is a symbol of that freedom. I know all of you think it`s stupid to make such a big deal out of a symbol, but I`m sure it means much more than that to him. None of us know what he went through in fighting to protect it, and I think that it was very disrespectful of the student, the faculty, and anyone involved to treat the flag like that. It`s a slap in the face to anyone in the armed forces or formerly in the armed forces. Yet another first amendment controversy. Yes, you have the right to freedom of speech, but throwing American flags all over the floor and walking over them is a pretty damn crappy way to use that freedom. I can understand why that man did what he did, and I, like the student who joined him, (loved that part, by the way!) would stand with him as well.
  82. Profile photo of itsdanielle
    itsdanielle Female 13-17
    30 posts
    April 17, 2008 at 11:29 am
    It IS a disgrace not only to the veterans and soldiers, but to anyone who appreciates this country and the freedoms we have here. If you don`t like America, fine, leave. No one really cares. But don`t throw the symbol of our country, to which many lives have been lost, on the floor and have people walk on it. Absolutely ridiculous.
  83. Profile photo of lightbluenym
    lightbluenym Female 18-29
    272 posts
    April 17, 2008 at 11:30 am
    Ok, I get the whole "this is art" thing, but my question is why they flaunt it at Veterans. Is there any reason to invite people in the service, who are obviously going to get upset at it? You can find mixed opinion on campus, leave them out of it...
  84. Profile photo of woomanfoo
    woomanfoo Male 18-29
    534 posts
    April 17, 2008 at 11:57 am
    Everyone knows that liberals aren`t capable of showing respect. It was unfair for the completely hypocritical vet to assume such a thing.

    "It`s a symbol of our freedom," he said. Freedom to do what? We`re free to NOT disrespect the flag, we`re free to NOT disagree with government officials. This guy has skewed views to say the least. Patriotism is one thing, borderline senility is another.

  85. Profile photo of bomb_tom
    bomb_tom Male 18-29
    522 posts
    April 17, 2008 at 12:48 pm
    why are ppl walking around those flags? i would step right on them :-|
  86. Profile photo of PianoMan21
    PianoMan21 Male 18-29
    315 posts
    April 17, 2008 at 12:48 pm
    Man, I wish I could be called an artist when I piss people off.
    I guess I`m not enough of a pain in the ass.
  87. Profile photo of catbarf
    catbarf Male 18-29
    1455 posts
    April 17, 2008 at 1:45 pm
    ""It`s a symbol of our freedom," he said. Freedom to do what? We`re free to NOT disrespect the flag, we`re free to NOT disagree with government officials. This guy has skewed views to say the least. Patriotism is one thing, borderline senility is another."

    Yes, I`m sure China is a free country because you`re FREE to follow the government blindly.

    Please.

    OMFG! They`re disrespecting a piece of plant fiber with three different colors in funny patterns! How dare they!

  88. Profile photo of catbarf
    catbarf Male 18-29
    1455 posts
    April 17, 2008 at 1:46 pm
    This American jingoism is just ridiculous. They have as much right to protest your flag as you do to defend it. And at the end of the day, a flag is a flag is a flag. Surely you wouldn`t violently harass someone at a rally? If the core principle is to simply show opposition, then it matters little what method they use.
  89. Profile photo of d_chaos
    d_chaos Female 18-29
    3 posts
    April 17, 2008 at 2:10 pm
    What a disgrace. I don`t care about the message behind this piece of `artwork` How dare the artist lay a flag on the ground, and other people walk on it, even just the corner. I would love to shake the hand of this veteran and the people who stood by him, like the student at this university who shook his hand.

    There were times when soldiers were tortured in times of war by being put into a small room. They didn`t have locked doors, the flag was laying outside the door on the floor, because the enemy knew they wouldn`t step on their flag in order to get away.

    I can`t say this enough, this is a huge disgrace.

  90. Profile photo of catbarf
    catbarf Male 18-29
    1455 posts
    April 17, 2008 at 2:14 pm
    "What a disgrace. I don`t care about the message behind this piece of `artwork` How dare the artist lay a flag on the ground, and other people walk on it, even just the corner. I would love to shake the hand of this veteran and the people who stood by him, like the student at this university who shook his hand."

    Mkay. Why is a flag so important to you? And how is desecrating a piece of fiber and dye somehow worse than rallying or rioting?

    "There were times when soldiers were tortured in times of war by being put into a small room. They didn`t have locked doors, the flag was laying outside the door on the floor, because the enemy knew they wouldn`t step on their flag in order to get away."

    So, it`s better for a soldier to rot in a POW camp than to walk on a flag. Absolutely stupid.

    By the way, you are aware that most American flags are made in China?

    Ooh, they must be unclean. It`s not a true American flag unless you`ve got GI Joe defecating apple pies and

  91. Profile photo of trentoneli
    trentoneli Male 18-29
    258 posts
    April 17, 2008 at 2:34 pm
    on the whole desecration of the flag debate, i think what it really boils down to is; are you more in love with your symbols of freedom, or your actual freedom?

    it`s like the song `merican by the descendents

    "i`m proud and ashamed every fourth of july.
    you got to know the truth before you say that you got pride."

  92. Profile photo of jjcruiser13
    jjcruiser13 Female 18-29
    706 posts
    April 17, 2008 at 3:09 pm
    "Personally if u desecrate, burn, or do anything to deface this country, then get the drat out of this country u don`t have to live here and if u hate this country that much u don`t deserve to live here"

    So, you`re free in this country except for the freedom to NOT love the country? I think America is good but we`re not perfect and no other country is. I rip up plastic flags that I find in my yard so I guess I don`t deserve to live here according to you. But I won`t leave because I don`t look to you to tell me who deserves to be here or not so the country will just have to deal with my ass for a while.

    "There were times when soldiers were tortured in times of war by being put into a small room. They didn`t have locked doors, the flag was laying outside the door on the floor, because the enemy knew they wouldn`t step on their flag in order to get away."

    I`m not sure if I believe that.

  93. Profile photo of jjcruiser13
    jjcruiser13 Female 18-29
    706 posts
    April 17, 2008 at 3:18 pm
    "Saying a US Flag is /just/ a piece of cloth is like saying the Three Musicians is /just/ a piece of canvas."
    No, because the painting is a one of kind piece that you can`t recreate (unless it`s a copy and not the origional) so that`s not really true. The flag is made by the hundreds and they`re all copies. The first flag ever sewn would be just as valuable as that painting, though. But no one cares if a copy of a famous painting is destroyed.
    I just don`t see how stepping on the flag is equal to hating america or the troops. I suppose if someone destroyed a flag with the intetnion of disgracing america, then that`d be different.
  94. Profile photo of LissieRae06
    LissieRae06 Female 18-29
    11 posts
    April 17, 2008 at 4:35 pm
    Umaine @ Farmington is my school, and I got to say, I thought it was awesome. That`s the main hall of the school, everyone goes through there... And before that veteran came in, I didn`t see a person walk on the flag. Everyone skirted around it. Not necessarily because we`re all flag-loving, right-wing rednecks, but because you just don`t step on someones project. I`m all for flag desecration, if your trying to prove a point, or if you have a message. But even I didn`t walk on the flags. There was no blatant standing on or walking on the flag until a fuss started being made about it. Once someone started bitching, everyone started trying to make a stand one way or another.

    It`s not the first shocking project to go up this semester. There`s been an outbreak of "offensive" postings and art projects lately, and this is just one of them, meant to enrage and make people think. I say good for her, good for the veteran, and good for the school system for sticking up for the studen

  95. Profile photo of LissieRae06
    LissieRae06 Female 18-29
    11 posts
    April 17, 2008 at 4:37 pm
    Oh, and, if it matters to anyone, which I`m sure it doesn`t... Those weren`t real flags. They were made of duct tape.

    But since it`s about the symbolism of the flag that everyones uptight about, I`m sure that doesn`t matter.

  96. Profile photo of vivisgreat
    vivisgreat Female 13-17
    2 posts
    April 17, 2008 at 4:43 pm
    Personally, the flag to me is a symbol. It represents the idea of freedom. The freedom to burn the flag, let it touch the ground, and express your own thoughts
  97. Profile photo of Beamquake
    Beamquake Male 18-29
    3 posts
    April 17, 2008 at 4:48 pm
    Why the hell is he flipping out so much over a flag? Is that flag in specific important? No, it`s a piece of paper on the ground depicting an image representing a country. For all I cared, they could have defecated and spit on it. It doesn`t mean they were doing that to the United States- he`d be doing it to a piece of paper. People like that guy need to stop taking everything so seriously.
  98. Profile photo of gennale
    gennale Female 30-39
    2 posts
    April 17, 2008 at 4:49 pm
    My ten year old daughter (full Girl Scout, Color bearer for her GS council ect...) said it all best.

    "What`s wrong with those people? Didn`t their parents teach them anything? It isn`t the flag that is important. It`s the respect you give it."

  99. Profile photo of TacoKing
    TacoKing Male 18-29
    4 posts
    April 17, 2008 at 4:51 pm
    This is crap.
    First of all if an american veteran asks you to do anything regarding a flag. Do it.
    To him (and to me and the rest of the soldiers I know) that flag is a symbol of everything he/we fight for.
    I don`t care if you`re trying to be artsy or controvesial, there are boundries. You were given the right to free speech by people like that man, at least try to show some respect instead of essentially spitting in his face
  100. Profile photo of patthebaker
    patthebaker Male 18-29
    1768 posts
    April 17, 2008 at 8:00 pm
    lets put it like this, say someone who`s life was saved by someone else you loved say a mother take a picture of here and burned it in front of you and show no remorse that is what it is essentially
  101. Profile photo of Veritas21
    Veritas21 Male 18-29
    2 posts
    April 17, 2008 at 9:20 pm
    Alright, First off I will say I am a student at U Maine Farmington and I was slightly offended by the project. But I was also glad someone did it.Pre 9/11 america you rarely saw anyone flying the ol stars and stripes outside of military families and such. Post 9/11 everyone was just following the band wagon acting all patriotic. It made me SICK. She, in my opinion made a very good statement to see who would walk around or not. Yes, that vet had his right to protest. But he also had no right to try and rip up her experiement. The America he fought for then has not changed, its still currupted. I believe in our country but the sad fact is freedom has never been free. the Idea of true freedom is a joke and very much impossible. This work was supposed to spark conversation and its gone out of hand. This video is extremely biased.

    FYI - the "goths" werent even apart of that piece of work. they were merely caught in the crossfire. gotta love symposium day.

  102. Profile photo of BigWaFuu
    BigWaFuu Male 18-29
    1163 posts
    April 17, 2008 at 10:37 pm
    Well... when you kill hundreds and risk your life thousands of miles away from home, lets see you act calm aver disrespect of the flag.
  103. Profile photo of infearno
    infearno Male 70 & Over
    381 posts
    April 18, 2008 at 12:00 am
    There are flags on the floor, whats so bad about that? its just a flag
  104. Profile photo of dettox
    dettox Male 18-29
    2 posts
    April 18, 2008 at 4:13 am
    It doesn`t matter what it is that is lying on the ground. Pay respekt to the artist and don`t step on it! If I had painted a picture and sum1 stepped on it, I would be pissed off!!!

    But even that war veteran should have calmed down and realised that this is ART! Analyse it. Ask questions about it! Get upset. But don`t blindly rush in and pick it up of the ground.

  105. Profile photo of Veritas21
    Veritas21 Male 18-29
    2 posts
    April 18, 2008 at 9:03 am
    Dettox, That was the whole point. It was made to be stepped on. That was apart of the the whole social experiment. it was all designed to see who would step on it and who wouldnt.
  106. Profile photo of infearno
    infearno Male 70 & Over
    381 posts
    April 18, 2008 at 9:13 am
    Dettox I`m not dissing the artist but I think Vertias21 is right. I just don`t get WHY it is such an issue, has the American flag reached the point of a religious icon for people to react that strongly?
  107. Profile photo of willem199
    willem199 Male 13-17
    149 posts
    April 18, 2008 at 3:18 pm
    Dear Europeans, feel free to flame the poo out of any blind-patriots you come across on the internet. I fully support it.
  108. Profile photo of 46885
    46885 Female 18-29
    45 posts
    April 18, 2008 at 4:17 pm
    It just shows that some things have far more meaning to some people than others. Had there been bible pages strewn everywhere, would anyone have noticed?
  109. Profile photo of Valark
    Valark Male 13-17
    77 posts
    April 18, 2008 at 4:22 pm
    Yes, it`s a symbol. But it`s a powerful one, at that. A symbol of pride that stands for everything the Americans have fought for and defended over the past 200 years. The Shed Blood of our Soldiers (Red), Purity (White), and Courage (Blue).

    I used to like to think that even though we`ve shed more blood than we`ve lost, become corrupt in multiple aspects of life, and become cowards standing behind a nuclear wall 300 worlds thick, that we still had the flag and its principles to look up to and respect. While I won`t say it`s not the "artist`s" right to disgrase our principles like that, it`s truly sickening that political correctness has run off far enough to let them do such a thing.

    What happened?

  110. Profile photo of Groogle
    Groogle Male 30-39
    2172 posts
    April 18, 2008 at 6:58 pm
    Those who say that this is disgrace are so wrapped in their own self importance that they forgot the very meaning of the word.

    Disgrace: The loss of respect, honor, or esteem; ignominy; shame.

    If that veteran fought for his flag and for the symbol of freedom that it represent then he should give all the money he earned fighting for the US army back and apologize to everyone who are currently suffering all over the world because he defended a selfish system that he used as a blanket all his life.

    "None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free."
    -- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

  111. Profile photo of petle_13
    petle_13 Female 13-17
    201 posts
    April 18, 2008 at 7:47 pm
    Hm... rather controversial indeed. I see both sides, mildly clear.

    I see those who interpret literally, "It`s just cloth."

    I see the defenders of their teachers, "It`s more than a symbol."

    I see the logics, "It`s just a symbol, yes, but it`s also respect."

    Then, I see those who tend to disagree, "It`s all stupid."


    Is it right to say who is the better? I think it would all be nice if we respected each other, but that`s almost impossible now. The Vet, yes, he protected everything he knew and loved, even the Girl who made this art....

    How odd, them meeting face to face....
    "Hello, meet the person who has no idea who or what you are." Same for both sides, naturally.

  112. Profile photo of violingirl77
    violingirl77 Female 13-17
    1426 posts
    April 18, 2008 at 8:18 pm
    That song drove me crazy... I could barely get through the video.

    Those weren`t even real flags.

  113. Profile photo of Shaboobalah
    Shaboobalah Male 18-29
    326 posts
    April 18, 2008 at 9:20 pm
    I can see why people would be so against the project. I can understand the patriotism, but how many of the people against the project truly understand what the flag means? I do admire the Americans in this. They are taught what the flag stands for and why they should respect it. In Canada, we aren`t. Not enough schools have the students stand and sing the anthem in the morning. When we do sing it (At assemblies and such), the students act like it`s a hockey game. Half the students don`t even know the words to our anthem. That makes me sick. But another thing makes me sick, and that is when people go on pseudo patriotic rants about something as simple as an art project. They worship the flag, thinking that it lying on the floor is a desecration of all things when really, that flag is a bit of cloth and dye. It was mentioned earlier that what we should be concerned about is the flag`s *meaning*. Ours is Canada`s sovereignty from England. Of our country gaining
  114. Profile photo of Shaboobalah
    Shaboobalah Male 18-29
    326 posts
    April 18, 2008 at 9:26 pm
    ... independence from her former masters. We too lost men and women, brothers, sisters, wives, fathers to be free, much like our neighbors to the south. They paid the ultimate sacrifice so their children, grandchildren, and other anticendants would not have to face another Nazi Germany. This is how Canada gained her place in the world, and why the maple leaf flies. It`s also why the stars and stripes fly. To show the price Americans paid to attain true freedom and become their own nation. Though it is symbolized in the flag, the flag in itself is not freedom, and people need to see that. They need to see that the flag on the floor is not desecration, but the people standing on it is (the standing on it part is merely my opinion, for some reason, I feel that`s pushing it too far). Then they may call themselves patriots.
  115. Profile photo of sparks235
    sparks235 Male 18-29
    5 posts
    April 19, 2008 at 7:26 pm
    Arasheht, iamboredtooo, would you consider it a work of art if I were to either defecate or leave a pile of excrement squarely in the middle of, say, an elegantly designed, very well maintained public library? How about, as a more prominent and sensitive example, the National Cathedral?

    I could contend that its purpose would be to stimulate debate as to whether, in the midst of humanity`s perceived mastery of nature and humanity`s claim of being intellectually and spiritually superior to all other beings, there still lies at the center of it an animalistic baseness. Further, the duality of the scene could suggest how that kind of intrusion is perhaps unsightly and unwanted, that it permeates a stench throughout this orderly aspect of our lives. After all, look at the duality of the recent church molestation scandals.

    Would it be art?

    Discussion and debate are good, but if you`re looking for shock value, look at the economy, the Second Gulf War and most American news channels.

  116. Profile photo of sparks235
    sparks235 Male 18-29
    5 posts
    April 19, 2008 at 7:44 pm
    Before I start catching too much fire for the last sentence of my post, I ought to clarify that when I reference American news channels, I mean the actual content.

    As an American, it makes me both laugh and cry that there`s just as much or more focus on the lives of celebrities as there is on actual news. Admittedly, I don`t know the extent for which this is true in other countries, but just the same, I don`t agree with it. If we ought to have fluff, we should at least highlight actual role models, someone to look up to. Sure, it might be easy to say that we don`t necessarily want to be like, for instance, Britney Spears, and our problems aren`t so bad after looking at hers. However, it does nothing to say that we can and should work towards making our lives better; it says we`re fine where we are and should work towards not ending up worse.

  117. Profile photo of shadow43
    shadow43 Female 18-29
    42 posts
    April 21, 2008 at 4:57 pm
    petie-well said. I understand where the vet is coming from, and of course respect his opinion, but I would`ve been one of those people stepping on the flags. If I had to meet him, I would have told him simply that I was sorry that he had to be in the war.

    I don`t care about the american flag at all. While I understand why it is designed the way it is, it has no meaning personally to me. It is not something that I associate myself with or want to, even though I am American. If tomorrow they wanted to change the design or get rid of the flag altogether, I`d be fine with that.

    Sparks, I suppose your poop exhibit would be art if it was actually OKed to be done.
    Although the student`s art did seem to blatantly show off the fact that it was violating a social construct, I think it was more of a statement of "why can`t *this* piece of cloth touch the ground?" and making a statement about how the flag is somewhat overrated and does not mean to some as it does others.

  118. Profile photo of shadow43
    shadow43 Female 18-29
    42 posts
    April 21, 2008 at 5:00 pm
    and patthebaker, its more like, say someone you loved saved the life of someone else and the mother of the saved victim drew a picture symbolizing what that event meant to her and then her grandkids laid it on the floor. Not that offensive really.
  119. Profile photo of BikerTeen
    BikerTeen Male 13-17
    2113 posts
    April 22, 2008 at 6:13 am
    anyone who would give desecration to the American flag needs a bullet in the heart and then bullet in the head and god bless America
  120. Profile photo of shadow43
    shadow43 Female 18-29
    42 posts
    April 22, 2008 at 1:45 pm
    You`re one of those "violence is the answer" people, aren`t you?
  121. Profile photo of PrKitty
    PrKitty Female 18-29
    370 posts
    April 23, 2008 at 7:15 pm
    It`s actually against the law to disgrace the flag in any manner. I hate disrespectful pieces of sh*t, we call tomorrow...

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