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Date: 03/27/08 09:10 AM

620 Responses to Creationists Take Young Kids to the Museum

  1. Profile photo of fancylad
    fancylad Male 30-39
    18499 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 5:44 am
    Link: Creationists Take Young Kids to the Museum - Two Creationists take home schooled kids on a tour of a natural history museum and challenge evolution on its own turf.
  2. Profile photo of TheNineXXX
    TheNineXXX Male 18-29
    396 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 9:10 am
    SCIENCE!
  3. Profile photo of Hitaki
    Hitaki Female 13-17
    103 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 9:15 am
    Well alrighty then! Lol.
  4. Profile photo of razordragon
    razordragon Male 18-29
    336 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 9:24 am
    ... So instead of trying to look through all standpoints, it`s basically hey we`re the only side of the story, listen to us. No, that`s bad.
  5. Profile photo of Tiredofnicks
    Tiredofnicks Male 30-39
    5101 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 9:26 am
    Propaganda targeting kids makes me feel all hollow inside, be it religious, political or commercial.
  6. Profile photo of TheGigglebun
    TheGigglebun Male 18-29
    36 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 9:27 am
    Everyone say it with me.... ready? If humans and dinosaurs lived together why are they not in the same sedimentary layer?... Good
  7. Profile photo of TheNineXXX
    TheNineXXX Male 18-29
    396 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 9:29 am
    What we saw there was essentially child abuse!
  8. Profile photo of teph2112
    teph2112 Male 13-17
    650 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 9:29 am
    Quick, get the internet!
  9. Profile photo of Slider388
    Slider388 Male 18-29
    97 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 9:32 am
    How sad.
    DON`T SAY THE "J" WORD!!!!!!

    lol my favorite is:
    Ok everyone, tell me the answer to my question. Look at me, and say "No".

    I feel sorry for all these kids who are brainwashed so early and will be forced to believe this for the rest of their life.

  10. Profile photo of WolfStar
    WolfStar Female 18-29
    455 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 9:32 am
    Bloody hell... talk about brain washing...

    Half of America are creationists?! Wow, we`re all screwed. Please, educated Americans, do something about these people.

  11. Profile photo of Lusus
    Lusus Male 18-29
    3 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 9:33 am
    While I do not agree with Young Earth Creationism, I do find it interesting that the video is VERY OBVIOUSLY biased towards the evolutionary viewpoint and mocking towards the Creationist view. I would not be surprised at all if it left out any good points made by the creationists and any mistakes by the evolutionist. This is not news, it is itself propaganda.

    It should also be said that the 800 x 7 = 5600 statement is ignorant. Memebers of various generations lived at the same time. It is the same as saying that 70 x 7 = 490 (That it takes 490 years, with an average lifespan of 70 years, for 7 generations to live and die).

  12. Profile photo of aven
    aven Female 18-29
    183 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 9:35 am
    wow
    you would rather believe in a book written by people who thought that lightning was an act of god, that the earth was the center of the universe and that a human being, the "J" word jesus who was a carpenter, created the earth and everything. If jesus created the universe and earth, where was he before he created it? in limbo on the moon? hmmm......i see some poor logic here

    why do they even have brains if they wont even use them?

  13. Profile photo of FatAnorexic
    FatAnorexic Female 18-29
    118 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 9:35 am
    Leave the kids alone!!!!
  14. Profile photo of Red5TheFinn
    Red5TheFinn Male 13-17
    1559 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 9:38 am
    Ok im not trying not convert anyone but, last year evolution was pretty much proved. They made connections between bacteria, fish, reptiles, primates, and humans. You cant excuse this as just a something thats there. "how do they know your teeth evolved from scales?" "how do you know they didnt?". And the guy at the start said "half of the world believes god created the world and the other half believe in evolution?" Say Wha? Evolution is only one of the many, many different theories of life. Second point, I know religious people that believe in evolution, concentrated particle waht have you.

    But the main thing is, nobody knows for sure.(but there sure is a hell of a lot more evidence on evolution)

  15. Profile photo of hedonistic
    hedonistic Male 30-39
    103 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 9:39 am
    I say good for them. I believe strongly that science/evolution is correct; however, if the creationists want to tour a museum and attack views accepted as correct by respected scholars, let them. It`s not propaganda, anymore than my sharing my evolution views with my young son will be - so what`s it hurt?
  16. Profile photo of Lusus
    Lusus Male 18-29
    3 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 9:39 am
    What do you refer to with "last year evolution was pretty much proved"? Do you have a link?
  17. Profile photo of Bose07
    Bose07 Male 13-17
    10 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 9:41 am
    This makes me sick, those men should be hung. Brainwashing children at that age. I`m surprised the Museum lets the bastards in there.
  18. Profile photo of BigBonny
    BigBonny Male 18-29
    2216 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 9:41 am
    Talk about brainwashing! "It says it in the bible, thats proof!" yet "how do they prove they evolved from scales? They dont know! Repeat with me, THEY DO NOT KNOW" etc... I wish they`d had the REAL tour guide with them on this tour to answer questions like that instead of just telling little kids what to do with no evidence.
  19. Profile photo of Mantistador
    Mantistador Male 18-29
    2200 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 9:41 am
    lol they are being taught by idiots anyway.... he says Jesus created everything even the earth... WTF? so he created Mary? and then was born out of her? oh but wait, first he had to create earth and a history behind it so he can be born from Mary... well...if ur gunna brain wash at least get someone who has the right idea, so when they grow up to follow their teachings they wont look like complete idiots walking around claiming that Jesus was born out of his own creations...
  20. Profile photo of oxfordstep
    oxfordstep Male 13-17
    4 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 9:41 am
    8 to 10,000 years old. evil telling the kids to believe this, this is no better than telling kids that blowing themselves up will grant them eternity in heaven.
  21. Profile photo of aven
    aven Female 18-29
    183 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 9:42 am
    just curious Red5TheFinn, what is the connection that proved evolution? do you have a link?
  22. Profile photo of TheNineXXX
    TheNineXXX Male 18-29
    396 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 9:44 am
    I think the argument of Science Vs Religion was over when churches started installing lightning conductors on their steeples! ;)
  23. Profile photo of mintycabbage
    mintycabbage Male 18-29
    8 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 9:44 am
    I am a christian myself but I bbelieve in evoultion. To ignore modern science and believe in people who hadn`t even invented wheelbarrows is simply ignorant.

    Also how do they know that god made the big bang.

  24. Profile photo of Lusus
    Lusus Male 18-29
    3 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 9:44 am
    There is a LOT of hostility towards Christianity here.
  25. Profile photo of Mantistador
    Mantistador Male 18-29
    2200 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 9:45 am
    lol i also thought the J-word was Jew at first... lol...
  26. Profile photo of The_Maddog
    The_Maddog Male 30-39
    3371 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 9:45 am
    It say it all in one line in that clip!

    HOME SCHOOLED CHRISTIANS!

    America..your doomed! Retards teaching retards!

  27. Profile photo of sinisterspid
    sinisterspid Female 18-29
    121 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 9:47 am
    how do we know that god meant birds to be birds? because a magic book wrtten by a carpenter a thousad years ago said so? thats right timmy. if there is a god and whatever happens is by his will then why do we try people for murder? surely if someone killed another it was all in the act of the lord right? also, if gods ultimate purpose here is for us to die then what was the point of making us at all? doesnt that somewhat defeat his intial objective? the only worse creationist view than this sort of arguement is the "believe what i say or ill hurt you" one.
  28. Profile photo of ChainsawNbud
    ChainsawNbud Male 50-59
    744 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 9:48 am
    the cynical side of me wants to ask how much these guys get paid for conducting these "biblically correct" tours?

  29. Profile photo of dsteenbock
    dsteenbock Male 30-39
    60 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 9:49 am
    Another theory of evolution vs the the theory of creation video? Why do we have to say thoery of evolution but not say theory before creationism? I always do.
  30. Profile photo of RPossum
    RPossum Male 30-39
    1059 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 9:50 am
    This makes me want to gather up children in christian families, take them to a church and proceed to point out every flaw in the bible whilst actually showing evidence why its wrong instead of having them chant answers and ignore facts.
    I was fine leaving well enough alone for the most part, but this is just war using children. Let Truth, Fact, Evidence win the day. Impressionable children are the only easy target for religion.
  31. Profile photo of karenina
    karenina Female 13-17
    192 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 9:50 am
    I`m a Creationist, but I was still offended by this video....
    I mean when they got to the part where the tour guides tried to debunk fossils and archaeology, their only point was "fossils, are just piles of dead stuff! That`s boring!"
    What kind of an argument is that?
  32. Profile photo of dragonrice
    dragonrice Male 18-29
    632 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 9:51 am
    Creationism is the lazy way out. They are too lazy and stupid to think for themselves because it uses something called a brain which is something they don`t have apparently.
  33. Profile photo of RPossum
    RPossum Male 30-39
    1059 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 9:53 am
    okay, many seem to have a slight misconception regarding Jesus making himself. Let me clear it up (I`m an atheist but was a catholic).
    GOD is made up of a holy trinity. God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit. He is all of these things and all of these things are god (and no that doesn`t make 3 gods, stop counting, they are all one) So Jesus is god. He is just god in human form, he is his own father. (This is seriously how its taught). So when he says Jesus created the earth he is technically right, however, it wasn`t the Jesus portion of God that created the earth but thats the gist of what he is saying.
  34. Profile photo of Overmann
    Overmann Male 18-29
    2600 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 9:54 am
    "Impressionable children are the only easy target for religion."

    Indeed. Any otherwise absurd ideology found that the means of securing its future existence has been through the children who are too young to know better. Prevent parents from pushing their religious beliefs on children and the prohibition of children in churches and see what happens to religion`s longevity.

  35. Profile photo of Rainbow_Haze
    Rainbow_Haze Female 18-29
    45 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 9:54 am
    ;-() that was disturbing! My bro & sis in law are like these people. Their son is the meanest child i`ve ever seen! He lies & steals, I absolutely hate baby sitting him. He`s five and doesn`t know the alphabet or even the difference between a 2 and a 3, or an apple and an orange, but he can tell you about baby Jesus! That`s messed up. Poor kid is going to be home schooled, which I think is a huge mistake seeing they`ve done a such a crap job with him so far. He`ll probably grow up to be one of these weird tour guides.
  36. Profile photo of bmachine82
    bmachine82 Male 18-29
    30 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 9:57 am
    I challenge anyone who believes in evolution to look into the accuracy of carbon and radiation dating. Evolution has been disproved by the discovery of Palonium Halo`s which has been cut from this bias propaganda. If those men teaching those children was unaware of the scientific evidence to back up creationism he shouldn`t be teaching it. I was brought up to believe in evolution but the evidence of Palonium halos that was brought to the forefront of sceince in recent years has completely disproved evolution.
  37. Profile photo of blipflip
    blipflip Male 13-17
    87 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 9:57 am
    I love the line:
    "We`re trying to think like evolutionists"

    Sadly they don`t have the mental capacity.

    I refuse to have the nature of the universe dictated to me by a book that asserts that Pi is exactly 3.

  38. Profile photo of Turnshroud
    Turnshroud Female 18-29
    4230 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 9:58 am
    Wow, what a load a bull.

    Lusus- Only to the one sded children/adults who scuff and whine and say BALAKALA I can`t hear you! When other people talk

    Mantis- Really lol

    But seriously...this is sad

  39. Profile photo of Bekll
    Bekll Female 18-29
    1984 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 10:00 am
    That`s... that`s just disgusting. Absolute indoctrination to the finest degree. Just like "Jesus Camp". *shudders*

    Little brainwashed girl: "...didn`t evolve from a big astroid in a bajillion years!"
    SO many things wrong with that sentence. What does evolution have to do with the Big Bang? And there`s no such number as "bajillion".

    FUNNY ENOUGH... the Creationist jerk asking the kids to say "How do you know?" is kind of inadvertently encouraging them to research just HOW scientists know. Thus, if they`re not totally brain dead from all that Creationist bs, they`ll see the empirical evidence and will ACCEPT (not believe!) evolution as the fact it is.


  40. Profile photo of blipflip
    blipflip Male 13-17
    87 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 10:00 am
    Also, Polonium halos.
    Refuted.
    http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/po-halos...
    That took 3 seconds and google.
  41. Profile photo of s0236078
    s0236078 Male 18-29
    274 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 10:01 am
    im a scientist...and its this kinda stuff that scares me. religious types seem to be always trying to blackmail/convince or blackmail people/kids into believing things that they just plain out believe. at least sience puts all the data out there and lets everyone make their own opinion. religion takes otherwise clever epople and makes them so stupid sometimes. choosing to believe something and fitting things to it is just retarted. fundamentalists are just mad!
  42. Profile photo of RPossum
    RPossum Male 30-39
    1059 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 10:02 am
    The Palonium Halo only proves that in SOME specific areas of earth, an event occurred which may cast doubt on the age of the Earth.
    Radiation dating taken ACROSS THE ENTIRE PLANET confirms the same thing whilst the Palonium Halo is specific to one area thus casting the age of that area in doubt.
    Also, fossil findings show that creatures lived during different time periods, if Paloniums Halo were valid then many, many, fossils would not be seperated by layers of sedement. Plus the Halo does not provide an answer as to the true age of the earth...it just casts some doubt on the estimated age. You can`t go from 6 billion to 6000 because 6 billion might be a little off in one small area. This is why the Halo has been discounted for the most part, its interesting but overall irrelevant.
  43. Profile photo of blipflip
    blipflip Male 13-17
    87 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 10:03 am
    Triple post, sorry trolls.

    From the polonium halo refuting article:

    Gentry`s polonium halo hypothesis for a young Earth fails, or is inconclusive for, all tests. Gentry`s entire thesis is built on a compounded set of assumptions. He is unable to demonstrate that concentric haloes in mica are caused uniquely by alpha particles resulting from the decay of polonium isotopes. His samples are not from "primordial" pieces of the Earth`s original crust, but from rocks which have been extensively reworked. Finally, his hypothesis cannot accommodate the many alternative lines of evidence that demonstrate a great age for the Earth.

    So yeah.

  44. Profile photo of Andyl
    Andyl Male 18-29
    300 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 10:03 am
    I hate organised religion. I used to tolerate it, but they fight a losing battle because they refuse to let anything go. Science is good, because it is constantly correcting itself. But religion? No no no, it`s all in the Bible. And that`s the answer to everything for Christians. How do they know it`s the work of God? How do we know that it`s all right? Because it says so. I could write "God was here" on a piece of paper and it would be right because the piece of paper says so.

    But the thing about science is that we don`t really know anything. We just look at the evidence and make the best assumptions based upon it. The Christians here were doing the same thing - the bones were the evidence, and the "floods" were the assumption. Yet due to the dating the evidence actually suggests that evolution is right, and because they`re wrong the Christians just throw the Bible back up in defence. You just can`t teach a blind man to see.

  45. Profile photo of Sus123
    Sus123 Female 18-29
    3 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 10:05 am
    Im a creationist and in fairness i dont blame any of you for being shocked at that: it looked scarily like indoctrination, telling kids the answers to your questions and then getting them to say it with you over and over again.

    However i would like to challenge an earlier post saying evolution has been proved. How do you know it was proved? were you there when evolution happened? did you see a monkey change into a human? It is, (if i may be so bold as to say...) incredibly unscientific to say that evolution is undoubtably true if nobody was there to see it.
    And also if we did `evolve` from ape like beings, how come theres still ape like beings about? surely they would all be humans by now, going by evolution?

  46. Profile photo of Mrjimmycm
    Mrjimmycm Male 18-29
    108 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 10:05 am
    I loved how the dude said, "Some of these kids need to start thinking for themselves." That isn`t what he wants. He wants them to think the way he does.
    No matter how you look at it, they would or would not be thinking for themselves because they would follow the evidence one way or another. Crazy! Enough with the anti-Christian/Christian debate, IAB! I`m tired of it.
  47. Profile photo of RPossum
    RPossum Male 30-39
    1059 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 10:09 am
    Thanks blipflip, that even cleared up a few misconceptions I had regarding that test. My research was incomplete and I appreciated the article.
  48. Profile photo of Kougaiji
    Kougaiji Male 18-29
    604 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 10:10 am
    These people make me happy that I discarded my faith this year. These people are disgusting. They know they are a dying breed in an increasingly educated and liberalized industrialized world, so they take drastic measures of brainwashing young minds to fit their mold.

    Simply disgusting.
    I hope those kids go to good college, and they will see how laughed at creationism is.

    BTW, to call it a theory is to insult the scientific method. You don`t create a theory by forcing the hypothesis and data to fit an already-decided conclusion.

    His Noodleyness is very offended by these views.

  49. Profile photo of Kougaiji
    Kougaiji Male 18-29
    604 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 10:13 am
    The Bible: Because all the works of science cannot equal the wisdom of cattle-sacrificing primitives who thought every animal species in the world lived within walking distance of Noah`s house.

    Christianity: The belief that some cosmic Jewish Zombie can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him that you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree. Makes perfect sense.

  50. Profile photo of dragosal
    dragosal Male 18-29
    1630 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 10:13 am
    aww isnt that cute? look at all those little drones how adorable "everybody say it with me" "we are all spineless inbred hicks" "thats right!" =3
  51. Profile photo of RPossum
    RPossum Male 30-39
    1059 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 10:17 am
    Sus, every creature that has evolved is a modern creature just like us. Think of it more like a tree, if a branch splits in two, you cant look around at the end of the branch and the other end of the branch and think thats what I came from. You would have to go back in time (back down the branch) to see your common ancestor.
    However, you are right, the observation is in the fact that mutation occurs (this is reproducable) and that mutation combined with survival of the fittest lends itself to its own design. Poor design dies off, advanced reproduces faster.
    However, since none of us live for millions of years we extrapolate an extremely educated theory, instead of using philosophy, or hypothesis. The theory is based on provable laws of nature.
  52. Profile photo of Vindicate
    Vindicate Female 18-29
    511 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 10:18 am
    I have nothing against religious people. However, as a geologist, I have major issues with creationists trying to pass off their religious dogma as science. My favorite argument they have against radiometric dating is that carbon-dating is inaccurate. And yeah, once you get something past around 70,000 years old, carbon dating IS inaccurate. However, K/Ar or Ar/Ar or any other number of dating techniques with million, or even billion, year half-lives are entirely valid. Just another example of why America is screwed.
    Wanna bet that it was these crackpots that voted Bush in both times*? ...Yeah, `nuff said there.

    *Disclaimer: I hate Bush, but that doesn`t mean that the alternatives presented were any better. Actually, presidential candidates for the past while (and this year) have been pretty damn pooty.

  53. Profile photo of Brian 61316
    Brian 61316 Male 18-29
    741 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 10:20 am
    ok ok! I have a coalition of two concepts that will solve our problem: mandatory creationist convention and nuke!
  54. Profile photo of WolfStar
    WolfStar Female 18-29
    455 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 10:21 am
    Sus123, the fact that you even asked that question shows that you don`t have much of an understanding of evolution at all. So many creationists come out with that `If we evolved from monkeys how come there are still monkeys around?` comment as if that`s a valid reason for not believing in evolution. The fact is, according to the theory of evolution, humans and monkeys (and other apes) all evolved from the same ancestors. Evolution isn`t working toward an end goal. Humans aren`t the height of evolution. We`re just the outcome of one branch, while something like gorillas are another. It doesn`t stop here. We are still, and will continue, evolving.
    Maybe you should read up on evolution and try to understand it before you dismiss it as bollocks. Just a thought.
  55. Profile photo of Pikaro
    Pikaro Male 18-29
    64 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 10:22 am
    It hurts me as a genetic researcher and as a Christian to see the word of G-d and the knowledge of the Earth get bastardized like this.

    I don`t mean to offend fellow Christians, but I don`t like seeing children lied to. The tour guides in this video portray the "proof" of science as "circular reasoning", which they claim to be idiotic. However, is that not what they themselves do to "prove" creationism? I do firmly believe that by simply looking at the diversity of the world and the beauty of nature, one can realize that all that made this possible can (and in my opinion IS) more than just some sort of scientific coincidence.

    But does it not occur to the creationists that it is G-d who created science and it was his tool to mold the Earth?

    Evolution is science. Science is the observations of man. Man is the creation of G-d. It may be circular reasoning, but it is what I believe to be the truth.

  56. Profile photo of Sus123
    Sus123 Female 18-29
    3 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 10:24 am
    I know it was naive of me to say about the monkeys...but i dont understand how evolution can work. Take for example, the moon landing: the first thing neil armstrong did was jump back up into the space rocket thing, because by calculations some of the smartest people in the world did, they reckoned there would be 6 foot of moon dust on the moon taking into account the predicted age of the universe (billions of years old). however there was only a couple of cm there, indicating that, in fact, according to those intelligent scientists calculations that the universe is not that old. So, if its not that old, then how can evolution take place, as we all know that evolution needs billions of years to take place? plus you would like to think those scientists did pretty reliable calculations, dealing with astronaughts lives and all...
  57. Profile photo of piscivous
    piscivous Male 50-59
    146 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 10:24 am
    You are all wrong; may the Flying Spaghetti Monster have mercy on your souls.
  58. Profile photo of Tiredofnicks
    Tiredofnicks Male 30-39
    5101 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 10:26 am
    Sus123: Two examples for you.

    Darwin finches and
    bacterial antibiotics resistance (scroll down a bit).

  59. Profile photo of Overmann
    Overmann Male 18-29
    2600 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 10:27 am
    "How do you know it was proved?"

    For one thing, nothing in science is ever "proved" so much as explained. It just so happens (by a rigorous process of experimentation and elimination) that the explanations science provides are the best explanations possible. Evolution is science`s response to the question of the diversity of life.

    "were you there when evolution happened?"

    Well, no, but it`s impractical and useless to resort to a "If a tree falls in the woods and no one`s around..." argument. Making certain intellectual guesses assumptions based on evidence is the largest factor responsible for the wealth of technology we have today.

    "did you see a monkey change into a human?"

    No one but the creationists is claiming humans evolved from monkeys. Chimps and humans most likely evolved from a common ancestor that is now extinct.

  60. Profile photo of LKJSlain
    LKJSlain Female 18-29
    648 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 10:27 am
    www.godandscience.org
  61. Profile photo of Pikaro
    Pikaro Male 18-29
    64 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 10:28 am
    As a separate response to Sus123 and any other "creationists" who want to debate the topic: please for the sake of yourselves and others have an understanding of evolution before you defend creationism. Creationism is fairly simple to understand, but unfortunately, there is a lot of confusion towards evolution.

    When a scientist and Christian, such as myself says "evolution", I am not talking about monkeys into humans, natural selection, or the origin of species. Nor am I denying the existence of G-d.

    What I am talking about is "changes amongst a population over a period of time". And any researcher will give you that definition. Do not debate evolution if you think that we are talking about apes becoming human, or the idea of a single organism suddenly sprouting wings or going through dramatic metamorphosis.

    You don`t make us look wrong, you make yourself look uneducated.

  62. Profile photo of Brian 61316
    Brian 61316 Male 18-29
    741 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 10:28 am
    Sus123 there is even more proof that he never did get to the moon, and even MORE than the world is IN FACT millions of years old.
  63. Profile photo of Red5TheFinn
    Red5TheFinn Male 13-17
    1559 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 10:29 am
    Lusus I watched it on TV on disc/ 2 hour documentary. I will try to find a link but it will probably bore you and you know why.
  64. Profile photo of RPossum
    RPossum Male 30-39
    1059 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 10:31 am
    Well put Pikaro.

    However, science immediately attacks the bible as having MANY falsehoods, including talking snakes, people made of ribs, age of the earth, that all paired animals could fit on a boat, etc.
    Science doesn`t mean to attack these things, it just proves them to be false or EXTREMELY unlikely at the very least requiring you to abandon what science tells you and just believe. Thus `science` the creation of god, is killing its maker?
    That makes a pretty silly god.

  65. Profile photo of Pikaro
    Pikaro Male 18-29
    64 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 10:31 am
    One more thing I would like to add onto this conversation. The debate among creationists and scientists is worse than any of us think. If you really want to know the length to which creationists go to, then visit answersingenesis.org

    This site shows parents how to educate children to understand that if we believe in evolution, then we believe that rape, violence, gangs, pornography, and homosexuality are okay.

  66. Profile photo of Overmann
    Overmann Male 18-29
    2600 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 10:33 am
    "And also if we did `evolve` from ape like beings, how come theres still ape like beings about? surely they would all be humans by now, going by evolution?"

    Except that the ape-like beings still around are most likely not the ape-like beings we evolved from.

  67. Profile photo of Overmann
    Overmann Male 18-29
    2600 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 10:34 am
    "www.godandscience.org"

    Go away.

  68. Profile photo of Eddno
    Eddno Male 18-29
    42 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 10:34 am
    "do you see evidence here ... NO... i see artwork"

    well look at the bible **** face and tell me

    do you see evidence...NO.... i see storytelling :)

  69. Profile photo of Sus123
    Sus123 Female 18-29
    3 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 10:34 am
    Im sorry im not a genetic researcher and dont have you level of undertsanding, pikaro. All i want to say is i find the concept of evolution hard to accept.
  70. Profile photo of Red5TheFinn
    Red5TheFinn Male 13-17
    1559 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 10:35 am
    And one thing you need to think about is, science has existed for a long time: Newton said that gravity was constantly traveling everywhere at everytime and it would effect everything. But since they noticed the abnormal orbit of mercury this was questioned and know we know something new. I dont know exactly but each planet, star, asteroid, meteroid and comet pulls space towards it creating a curved universe somehow disproving Newtons idea.
    Science is constantly being disproved and then new answers will ahve to be concocted to answer everything other than leaving this one point out.
  71. Profile photo of RPossum
    RPossum Male 30-39
    1059 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 10:35 am
    Sus, scientists corrected their calculations regarding the moon once they could do some tests on the moon itself. Based on evidence they discovered they made a correction. Has faith ever done this?
  72. Profile photo of Red5TheFinn
    Red5TheFinn Male 13-17
    1559 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 10:37 am
    Please dont flame me for being an 11 year old who thinks he is smart. Im just contributing.
  73. Profile photo of RPossum
    RPossum Male 30-39
    1059 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 10:37 am
    No one is flamming you red. Its a valid point, it was later that gravity was determined to be generated by mass.
  74. Profile photo of Pikaro
    Pikaro Male 18-29
    64 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 10:41 am
    There is nothing wrong with finding evolution hard to accept Sus123, it is hard to understand first of all. I`m just saying that from the statements you made, I get the impression that your reluctance to accept the idea comes from a lack of understanding. You give the impression that creationists are out to deny G-d, which isn`t true, and that the main point to evolution is a connection between apes and humans, which if you understood evolution, you`d know that what we "evolved" from is quite a different thing that what we`re "related" to on a scientific aspect. On top of which, there is debate among scientists about how related we might be to apes.

    Evolution scientists aren`t trying to figure out how we`re connected to apes and how to deny G-d. They`re trying to use the knowledge of similar genetic make-ups to exploit them for the sake of stopping disease and other threats to life.

  75. Profile photo of RPossum
    RPossum Male 30-39
    1059 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 10:42 am
    I enjoy reading Pikaro`s thoughts though. He is where I was for a long time. I believed in science and molded god to the creator who made man, made science, and gave people a periodical interpretation of his will at the time (the bible).
    Now things like stoning those who work on Sunday is unacceptable and immoral, certainly god didn`t mean that so I discarded it as a work of god at the time.
    However, these thoughts didn`t fit right, which lead me to agnostic...wasn`t sure what was going on. There is an unbelievable clarity that comes with finally accepting atheism as truth. (Maybe some mild disappointment too).
  76. Profile photo of Red5TheFinn
    Red5TheFinn Male 13-17
    1559 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 10:42 am
    Thanks pssum but I get flamed sometime because of my young age and they dont want an 11 year old to exceed their intelligence.
  77. Profile photo of kingdomCome
    kingdomCome Male 18-29
    338 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 10:42 am
    haha...
    "If the t-rex was meant to eat meat then what did he do until eve ate the apple? sit around and wait for the fall?....I don`t think so"
    then he goes on to bash evolutionists for circular reasoning - talk about irony!
    Lets just ignore the fact that what he based his circular reasoning accusation on is a complete fabrication of his own mind....
  78. Profile photo of Tekno
    Tekno Female 30-39
    1212 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 10:47 am
    "But does it not occur to the creationists that it is G-d who created science and it was his tool to mold the Earth?"
    Good point. :)
  79. Profile photo of Mjustin
    Mjustin Male 18-29
    335 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 10:48 am
    I lol`d so hard at the T-Rex part. Reminds me of the "Checkmate, Atheists!" video. It saddens me that these guys are serious.
  80. Profile photo of AyJay
    AyJay Female 13-17
    33 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 10:48 am
    Ok well I`m a Christian but I`m certainly not a creationist...I don`t believe the earth is only 10,000 years old..that in my opinion is impossible...I do believe in evolution and it is a fact that many many scientists are christians too, simply because the only way an awful lot of things can be explained is by there being a God and a creator. And who`s to say God didn`t use evolution to create the inhabitants of the world? Oh and in response to some of those people saying it`s impossible for Jesus to have made the world because he was born through Mary...listen in your RS lessons! Sheesh...God sent Jesus, his only son, to earth and Jesus took the form of man and God implanted the baby Jesus into Mary`s womb, so Jesus was around before he was born as a human. Also it wasn`t just Jesus who created the world, he was there and he definatly helped, but it was the trinity as a whole who created the earth...maybe using the big bang...some things we can never know for sure!
  81. Profile photo of unbelievable
    unbelievable Male 18-29
    1154 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 10:52 am
    this pisses me off. Those tour guides are ignorant little pissants. Those kids are being brainwashed with filth, i cant even believe that the parents condone this kinda trash be tought to there children. Science is NOT about faith or religion, its hard cold FACTS. I would seriously like to punch that bald guy in his face for trying to warp young minds like that.
  82. Profile photo of AyJay
    AyJay Female 13-17
    33 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 10:54 am
    in response to unbelievable...ask any scientist and they will tell you science is NOT facts...it is made up of theories that may be disproved later in the future, as we have done before...so don`t be so ignorant...
  83. Profile photo of kentton77
    kentton77 Male 30-39
    149 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 10:54 am
    Science is not based off of faith, creationism is. I`ll stick with science when the next plague breaks out instead of praying alone, unlike the parents of the 11 y/o girl who died of diabetes.
  84. Profile photo of kentton77
    kentton77 Male 30-39
    149 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 10:55 am
    What is a day or a year to God, are the measurements the same?
  85. Profile photo of RPossum
    RPossum Male 30-39
    1059 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 10:57 am
    I don`t understand how people can believe in God, believe that Jesus is your savior, and believe that science is right. The BIBLE (word of GOD) states that the world is 6000 years old.
    Science says no...gods wrong.
    It should follow then that either science is wrong or God is (or the bible is) at which point if you throw out the bible as a falsehood, then what?
    I don`t understand how fence sitters can get comfortable with that concept?
  86. Profile photo of yellowsquare
    yellowsquare Female 18-29
    1545 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 10:57 am
    I wish they would have educated creationists do these tours. Men and women with PhDs in fields of science who have seen the ALL the evidence, studied it, evaluated it, and THEN made the decision to believe in creationism.

    Not two dudes who took high school biology and read the Bible at home. Who can take someone like that seriously?

    I AM Christian, but I do NOT believe in creationism.

  87. Profile photo of Mjustin
    Mjustin Male 18-29
    335 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 10:58 am
    In response to the tour guides:

    "Is evolution a religion? Yes."

    Idiot alert! Funny when people don`t know the definition of "religion."

  88. Profile photo of AyJay
    AyJay Female 13-17
    33 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 11:01 am
    In response to kentton...I personally think that when the bible says God made the world in seven days, it means seven ages or periods of time, because it says in peter that a day is a thousand years and a thousand years is a day, in other words God is outside of time.

    RPossum please explain?
    The bible doesn`t state the world to be 6000 years old, because it was hundreds of years ago that the bible was written. Some literalists worked it out to be that old but i personally disagree...see above comment on days being ages...

  89. Profile photo of RPossum
    RPossum Male 30-39
    1059 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 11:01 am
    kentton is a genious...explaining that a year to god is different than to man. A brilliant stroke of faith.
    Then 6000 god years is 6 billion human years. He should learn to communicate to his bible writers a bit better though.
    I think those of the faith should run with that, that`s sorta believable.
  90. Profile photo of BlackiPod
    BlackiPod Male 18-29
    1246 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 11:02 am
    That waould mean that one person had a child only after they were 800 years old, and that child would do the same. Their math is off. It just means that each person would live to see like 8 generations of their own family.
  91. Profile photo of AyJay
    AyJay Female 13-17
    33 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 11:02 am
    Oh and btw I think the guys on this video are idiots...
  92. Profile photo of BlackiPod
    BlackiPod Male 18-29
    1246 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 11:03 am
    This community has to be the most anti-christianity one Ive ever known. I just want you all to know that EVERY knee will bow. That means yours too.
  93. Profile photo of RPossum
    RPossum Male 30-39
    1059 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 11:04 am
    AyJay, yeah, if you shift to interpretation mode for the bible, then time becomes irrelevant.
    However, how much of the bible is supposed to be suggestive? I`m assumming you accept Love thy neighbor as literal but not the part that says stone thy neighbor to death if he works on sunday.
  94. Profile photo of RPossum
    RPossum Male 30-39
    1059 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 11:06 am
    BlackiPod steps in with a general threat instead of reason. Well done. Why not argue for the Christian faith instead of saying bow to my master or he will torture you for eternity?
  95. Profile photo of Pikaro
    Pikaro Male 18-29
    64 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 11:06 am
    "This community has to be the most anti-christianity one Ive ever known."

    Someone`s never heard of the Westboro Baptist Church. You know, the ones who publish a list of 700 passages the prove that G-d hates us.

  96. Profile photo of AyJay
    AyJay Female 13-17
    33 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 11:07 am
    Actually it doesn`t say stone thy neighbour to death if they work on sunday, it says keep the sabbath holy, you have to take the bible into context.
  97. Profile photo of jetmark
    jetmark Male 30-39
    1024 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 11:07 am
    The earth is flat.
    Jesus rode a dinosaur.
    And home-schooled children turn out well socialized.
  98. Profile photo of AyJay
    AyJay Female 13-17
    33 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 11:09 am
    "BlackiPod steps in with a general threat instead of reason. Well done. Why not argue for the Christian faith instead of saying bow to my master or he will torture you for eternity?"

    God will not torture non-believers for eternity...Hell is merely a place where God isn`t, which is different to earth because God is on earth! And obviously without God, everyone will suffer.

  99. Profile photo of LoofahBoy
    LoofahBoy Male 18-29
    3302 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 11:11 am
    Once again IAB fuels the flames of ridiculous debate. Bravo.
  100. Profile photo of AyJay
    AyJay Female 13-17
    33 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 11:13 am
    ridiculous? This is an on-going debate which defines the origin of humans and our whole universe...you can`t really call that ridiculous.
  101. Profile photo of RPossum
    RPossum Male 30-39
    1059 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 11:13 am
    Ay Jay I suggest you read: Exodus 31:15
    For six days work is to be done but on the seventh day is a sabbath of rest, holy to the lord. Whoever does ANY work on a sabbath day must be put to DEATH. (In the bible)
  102. Profile photo of Tiredofnicks
    Tiredofnicks Male 30-39
    5101 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 11:13 am
    Everything around us changes. Policies change, land erodes, rain falls or doesn`t fall. Nothing ever stays the same, why should life be the exception to that?
  103. Profile photo of thanatos16
    thanatos16 Male 18-29
    291 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 11:13 am
    this is what happens when people watch The Flintstones and think its a documentary.
  104. Profile photo of RPossum
    RPossum Male 30-39
    1059 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 11:15 am
    Yes loofah, why shout down debate? These are the questions that most need answered and to find intelligent people to discuss it with is great. I love IAB for these opportunities to test my beliefs and be convinced if my position is right or wrong.
  105. Profile photo of AyJay
    AyJay Female 13-17
    33 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 11:16 am
    hmm ok point taken...but I think some things in the bible don`t really apply to modern day life. Though tecnically the sabbath is saturday...I`m not sure why it`s been moved to sunday...
  106. Profile photo of AyJay
    AyJay Female 13-17
    33 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 11:17 am
    Oh just out of interest what do you believe RPossum?
  107. Profile photo of RPossum
    RPossum Male 30-39
    1059 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 11:18 am
    AyJay here is the reference, and yes I realize blaming god for hell is like not taking responsibility for ones own actions. However, God sent Satan to earth where he created sin. Its kinda gods fault sin is on earth to start with because if he had sent Satan anywhere else sin would not have been invoked and we`d all be fine. Its a little hypocritical to send us sin then punish us for it.
  108. Profile photo of BlackiPod
    BlackiPod Male 18-29
    1246 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 11:19 am
    Hey - its not what I believe. Its what you dont. Say what you want, I cant do a thing about it. I just simply find it funny that if this was a video on how hindus were at the museum telling their student about THEIR faith, most of you wouldnt say anything negative about it. Im done trying to share my faith via IAB comment board. Nothing I say will convince any of you any different. Thats why its called FAITH.
  109. Profile photo of RPossum
    RPossum Male 30-39
    1059 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 11:21 am
    oops never included a link, bah I will have to go find it again.
    Anyway I was Catholic for a long time. Just too many things didn`t gell, and when I really dove in on an arguement much like this I started to truly question everything and tie it into a big picture. That picture was a mess until I opened right up and said fine, lets see it without god. All the messy pieces fell away. However, most of those have to do with the bible and the interpretation of gods will. Take that out as a man made thing, take out jesus (unfortunately) and its much harder to argue against a creator. One that does not have a personal relationship with you....
  110. Profile photo of YoSoyNoob
    YoSoyNoob Male 18-29
    57 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 11:21 am
    What most people do not realize is that Carbon Dating only works if the fossil you are dating is only a few thousand years old. So the fact that scientists believe this to be true dating back millions of years just makes me think.
  111. Profile photo of AyJay
    AyJay Female 13-17
    33 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 11:22 am
    Well for there to be a greater good there has to be a counter-acting evil. If you remove all evil from the world there can no longer be free choice. We could not choose to do anything other than what is perfectly good. Satan was sent down because he tried to overthrow God and sin cannot be in heaven because it is a holy place.
  112. Profile photo of Mjustin
    Mjustin Male 18-29
    335 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 11:22 am
    @ BlackiPod - This video wasn`t just Creationists telling people about their faith, it was them essentially forcing the kids to believe it. We would`ve said negative things just the same if it were Hindus doing this.
  113. Profile photo of Infuscation
    Infuscation Male 18-29
    42 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 11:23 am
    Creationist guy:
    "What are you seeing? Artwork. It`s a great fairy tale but it`s not good science"
    Laughed. My. Ar$e. Off.
  114. Profile photo of RPossum
    RPossum Male 30-39
    1059 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 11:25 am
    BlackiPod - there are several things that would convince me. If god spoke to me as he is a personal god, if everyone was raptured, if aliens came down and began preaching any religion that matches one on earth, etc.
    I will accept proof. I can be convinced. So can almost all atheists.
  115. Profile photo of Mjustin
    Mjustin Male 18-29
    335 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 11:25 am
    @ YoSoyNoob - That carbon dating argument is old. Carbon Dating isn`t even used to date fossils or the Earth. There are tons of other dating methods that are more accurate for far older things.
  116. Profile photo of REBELComx
    REBELComx Male 18-29
    477 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 11:27 am
    The guys running these tours aren`t ignorant, they`re quite informed about evolution. They ARE willingly ignoring truth and working backwards from their assumption. That isn`t ignorance, it`s stupidity.
    Why is that Jews who wrote the creation story don`t take it litteraly, but Christians who base their beleifs on it do?
    Two basic points of evolution - growth/adaptation, and survival of a group by passing on genetic information - The average man today is nearly 4" taller than the average man only 1,000 years ago. In about a hundred years, true blondes will be extinct because there aren`t enough of them preproducing and passing on the blonde genes. There, EVOLUTION PROVED.
    I`m curious how creationists account for the existence of cavemen like Lucy or the Ice man. Archeology and paleantology show us that the idea of gods EVOLVED from prehistoric man`s need to understand his world. Man`s greatest folly is to think that he was created by gods, and not the other way around.
  117. Profile photo of AyJay
    AyJay Female 13-17
    33 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 11:28 am
    I`m afraid there is no proof for faith...that is why it is faith but then again there is also no proof for science! But I`m sure if you opened up to God and got some christians to pray with you about it, God would show himself to you in some way or other. The only problem is that if it`s not a huge big ordeal, like an angel appearing to you, it`s easy to forget or think it was a matter of chance.
  118. Profile photo of gorgokid333
    gorgokid333 Male 13-17
    227 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 11:29 am
    Heres what I think, evolutionists say "Its impossible for one creature to have made the universe" note the word impossible. Where exactly do you think possibility came from? and its not just possiblity, its all of the physical laws and properties. I dont know about you, but its alot easier for me to believe that 1 thing has always existed, instead of thousands of things.
  119. Profile photo of RPossum
    RPossum Male 30-39
    1059 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 11:29 am
    eck I read my statements of what I would accept as proof and they seem extreme. Many things, prove the story of Noah, prove a flood covered the earth, prove the earth is 6000 years old (although AyJay arguement is compelling and I can discount the age of earth through that arguement) but along those lines.

    Back to AyJay`s point: I don`t understand what is wrong with only being able to be good?

  120. Profile photo of KoalaMeatPie
    KoalaMeatPie Male 18-29
    2582 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 11:30 am
    Lusus:

    You say the video was biased, I don`t think it was, it`s just reporting what both sides have to say.

    IF every video out there seems biased against Creationists, it`s because it`s naturally ignorant.

  121. Profile photo of BlackiPod
    BlackiPod Male 18-29
    1246 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 11:31 am
    Ok, RPossum, take China as an example. No foreigners were allowed in for the longest time. When people started to get involved in their culture, they discovered that they had the same stories that were in the Bible. This true for a lot of countries in africa as well. So their not aliens, but its the same principle.
  122. Profile photo of BlackiPod
    BlackiPod Male 18-29
    1246 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 11:32 am
    And please dont confuse catholisism or methoists for christianity.
  123. Profile photo of RPossum
    RPossum Male 30-39
    1059 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 11:33 am
    Oh AyJay, I was loving our debate up until this sentence. "there is also no proof for science! "

    I will bet that you would be willing to let a bowling ball touch your nose, while hanging from a pendulum and let me let it go. It would swing away, and due to friction, and gravity, the ball would never swing all the way back to hit you.
    Science is observable, God is not. (faith)

  124. Profile photo of DollyDD
    DollyDD Female 13-17
    14 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 11:33 am
    I`m a Christian. I`m not the type to accept anything at face-value. I`m not going to preach to you. I`m going to give you access to evidence and I`ll let your own thinking take it from there. I was planning on methodically addressing each issue at hand, but this debate is growing too quickly for that.
    I`m going to refer you to some resources. No, I don`t think anyone here is dumb, however both sides have been misinformed about each other. Try this site for evidence: http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/are... I know what you`re thinking: "This is going to be biased!" But where on earth do you truly get unbiased material? Nowhere: everyone has an opinion. I know some of you aren`t going to want to read all that. So if anyone wants a quick answer, just post saying so and I`ll check back later and give some answers. I know my facts from both sides and if you find an error in my thinking, tell me so I
  125. Profile photo of AyJay
    AyJay Female 13-17
    33 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 11:33 am
    Rebel - I agree with what you say apart from the last bit. The idea of God came about because there are many things that cannot be explained without him.
  126. Profile photo of anGiE_O_o
    anGiE_O_o Female 13-17
    488 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 11:33 am
    i just would`ve loved to punch that stupid religious tour real hard!

    "with the amount of damage happening to the earth these days, all the crazy things. it would`ve fallen apart by now,"
    trying to sound intelligent but saying something ridiculous.

    science works with facts. religion works with nothing. especially creationism has no facts at all! tell me one fact, that really proves something they believe in.
    ya maybe there was a guy named noah or jesus, but stop reflecting this huge power in some people.


    poor kids

  127. Profile photo of KoalaMeatPie
    KoalaMeatPie Male 18-29
    2582 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 11:36 am
    dsteenbock:

    Because "Theory" does not mean "Hypothesis"

  128. Profile photo of KoalaMeatPie
    KoalaMeatPie Male 18-29
    2582 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 11:37 am
    When day, When I`m Big Brother, Creationists will be the Proles.
  129. Profile photo of RPossum
    RPossum Male 30-39
    1059 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 11:37 am
    Black, there are over 2000 religions that have had over 1 million believers each. Your odds of being correct are 0.02%. I am nto catholic, I have studied, islam, catholicism, scientology, christianity, agnosticism, etc. Mostly monotheistic faiths, I stayed away from Hinduisum (speeled right?) At any rate let me take you through the moral arguement. You say morals come from god. Well most cultures pray to a non existent god in which they derive their morals. That means they are man made morals, yet these morals turn out mostly similar to the rest of the worlds (except maybe islams). Buddha has fantastic morals.
  130. Profile photo of Mjustin
    Mjustin Male 18-29
    335 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 11:38 am
    @ REBELComx - Actually, that thing about the blondes isn`t true. Check Snopes.com.

    @ gorgokid - Don`t confuse evolution with astronomy. Evolution makes no claims about the origin of the universe.

  131. Profile photo of Rman1201
    Rman1201 Male 18-29
    247 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 11:39 am
    This whole christian thing has seriously got to stop...it was cute way back when we still worshiped Zeus, but its gone too far...
  132. Profile photo of AyJay
    AyJay Female 13-17
    33 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 11:40 am
    Haha yes i saw that video on here just the other day. But it is true that science is made up of theories...maybe i didn`t phase it correctly, what i mean is that many theories have been thought up and disproven over history and I believe many things shall be disproven in the future. All I`m saying is that many things in science are not solid fact...
  133. Profile photo of DollyDD
    DollyDD Female 13-17
    14 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 11:40 am
    seriously, just ask me. I`ve learned about this kind of thing for years. And this may surprise you, but I`m doubting that those tour guides have. They made some very serious mistakes, which many of you have pointed out. But if you really want answers and you don`t just want to bop around venting endlessly, then ask me your question.
  134. Profile photo of RPossum
    RPossum Male 30-39
    1059 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 11:41 am
    Stumbled across an interesting link.
    I`m going to go check out that genisis stuff posted earlier by one of our members so my responses may slow:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkXOwBIRX...
  135. Profile photo of DollyDD
    DollyDD Female 13-17
    14 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 11:41 am
    Rman1201: Zeus is a Greek mythological guy... NOTHING TO DO W/ CHRISTIANITY! sorry.
  136. Profile photo of jetmark
    jetmark Male 30-39
    1024 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 11:43 am
    So to summarize:

    The earth is FLAT
    JESUS rode a DINOSAUR.
    Home-schooled children turn out WELL.

  137. Profile photo of RPossum
    RPossum Male 30-39
    1059 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 11:44 am
    Dolly I have 10 questions for you. My first is do you believe god helps people, heals cancer for some, etc.
  138. Profile photo of TGPZarquon
    TGPZarquon Male 30-39
    166 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 11:44 am
    Although I`m definitely in the "evolution" camp, (which does NOT suggest that God doesn`t exist, btw - just that the way a bunch of shepherds imagined the creation of the world thousands of years ago is not scientifically accurate) I feel people have the right to believe whatever they wish, even if I think it`s sad that they`re programing their kids not to think ("repeat after me...")

    HOWEVER - Religion is NOT science. Scientific theories must be proven through observation, repeated experimentation, and predictable results. The events in the Book of Genesis don`t meet that criteria.

    So while I don`t have a problem with these people choosing what the bible says over what science has proven - or even their belief that religion is superior to science - what I DO have a problem with is their insistence that their "theory" IS a science, and should be taught in a science class.

  139. Profile photo of AyJay
    AyJay Female 13-17
    33 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 11:45 am
    Ok Dolly can you answer some of RPossum`s questions that I couldn`t? Like why do we not stone our neighbours for working on sundays?
  140. Profile photo of KoalaMeatPie
    KoalaMeatPie Male 18-29
    2582 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 11:46 am
    bmachine82:
    Challenge taken.
    Pretty much sums it up:

    In other words, we have all this evidence that it`s extreamly accurate, but all Creationists will dismiss it as faulty, or straight out ignore the science.

  141. Profile photo of CynicalDog
    CynicalDog Male 13-17
    64 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 11:46 am
    You know how hard i laughed when they said the t-rex ate vegetables? A LOT
  142. Profile photo of RPossum
    RPossum Male 30-39
    1059 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 11:47 am
    Okay, we are tossing around the word theory already.
    Here is the scientific use of the word theory which is different than every day use:
    http://notjustatheory.com/
    Please check it out, the word your after is usually hypothesis which is actually more of a guess.
  143. Profile photo of Mjustin
    Mjustin Male 18-29
    335 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 11:48 am
    @ DollyDD - answeringgenesis.com is a horrible source. There was one article where they essentially said that science is based on assumptions. It also cites the bible as proof that the bible is right.
  144. Profile photo of MagicMoose
    MagicMoose Male 13-17
    623 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 11:49 am
    "with all the damage that is being done to the earth, the world would have fallen apart by now" (or something like that)

    yeah. because lifeforms have been driving gas guzzlers for billions of years.

  145. Profile photo of RPossum
    RPossum Male 30-39
    1059 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 11:49 am
    Interesting post Koala. However, the scale of which scientists must be wrong to get from 6 billion to ~6000 is astronomical.
    However, I intend to read up a little bit more before commenting further. Nice post.
  146. Profile photo of Baalthazaq
    Baalthazaq Male 18-29
    4548 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 11:50 am
    Ok, couple of points.

    1 RPossum: The top 4 religions on earth take up about 80% of the world.

    2 billion christians, 1.2 billion Muslims, 1 billion atheists, 750 Million Hindus, etc.

    There cannot be 2000 religions with over a million people. That`s 2 billion people. Simply not enough people on earth to make that work once the other factors are in.

    2) As Lusus said, the math the video shows for number of people if they lived for 1000 years is bull.

    If each generation had a kid when they were 20, thats 20+20+20+20+20+20+20+1000 years. 1140.

    In real life example: I have met my great grandmother, she died at 90. My Grandma died at 60. My mom is currently 50. That doesn`t mean I met her 190 years ago. I met her about 20 year ago. You don`t have your kids after you die.

  147. Profile photo of REBELComx
    REBELComx Male 18-29
    477 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 11:50 am
    AyJay, 6,000 years ago, NOTHING could be explained without god because there was no such thing as science. Hell, science only PROVED the earth was ROUND (discounting christian beleif) about 1000 years ago. Primitive man, new in his ability to think in a way outside instincts, began to try to make sense of everything. The first thing he had to do though, was get food. Thus, "magic" was born in select tribesmen`s attempt to ensure a good hunt by painting the animsals they hunted on walls. This is reffered to as sympathetic magic (to control something in the likeness of another is to control that thing). These primitives beleifs evolved over time into ritual and religions. Therefore, all religions evolved from man`s need to control their environment, kill, and eat.
  148. Profile photo of KoalaMeatPie
    KoalaMeatPie Male 18-29
    2582 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 11:51 am
    DollyDD:

    Answers in Genisis is the biggest load of Creationist BS on the web.

    Every point they make can be refuted. Why? Because they use science out of context. For example, they say that the speed of light is slowing down threwout the universe, but have taken thier sources from an article mentionning how light slows down when around a black hole.

    Yes, they use science, but like morons who say "Because 2+2=4, then the sky is blue, and scince god made the sky on the second day, "4" prooves god."

  149. Profile photo of REBELComx
    REBELComx Male 18-29
    477 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 11:51 am
    Dolly, I`m pretty sure Rman was reffering to the new christian movement as it existed in the Roman empire. Which would still be wrong since to the Romans, he would have been Jupiter.
  150. Profile photo of RPossum
    RPossum Male 30-39
    1059 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 11:53 am
    Baalthazag, I didn`t say today. Over all time we know of over 2000 religions that have had over a million worshipers at one time or another.
    The correct religion may not even exist today...what if zeus is absolutely pissed that everyone is ignoring him.
  151. Profile photo of AyJay
    AyJay Female 13-17
    33 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 11:53 am
    Yes that is how I was using the word theory. I agree that evolution is a scientific theory and it is as close to fact as we can get until we find yet more evidence...as I`ve already said, I do believe in evolution as many christians do. And generally creationists and literalists are not very educated in the world of science. Most christian scientists will believe in evolution because it has been tested repeatedly and it is a near perfect explanation.
  152. Profile photo of KoalaMeatPie
    KoalaMeatPie Male 18-29
    2582 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 11:54 am
    s0236078:

    Marry me, pelase, I want you to have my mentally sound children.

  153. Profile photo of RPossum
    RPossum Male 30-39
    1059 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 11:55 am
    Dolly your link doesn`t work for me :(
  154. Profile photo of KimonoThief
    KimonoThief Male 18-29
    126 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 11:56 am
    Sickening.
  155. Profile photo of KoalaMeatPie
    KoalaMeatPie Male 18-29
    2582 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 11:56 am
    Andyl: But thats the thing.

    Writting "God was here" on a piece of paper would be right, because god created the trees for the paper and pencil, and god created the graphite for the lead.

    So yes, god was there.

    Don`t get me wrong, I`m on your side, if you havn`t read any of my many - many arguments before.

  156. Profile photo of DollyDD
    DollyDD Female 13-17
    14 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 11:57 am
    Mjustin-- I think you may be taking that article out of context... I`d like to know which one it is. Anyway here`s the deal: true science can be tested and therefore proven. As a simple example: If a scientist wants to prove that a bird reproduces by laying eggs that hatch into baby birds, he has only to watch the bird lay an egg and observe the process of its incubation and hatching. Evolution cannot be tested. On the flip side, neither can the Bible. So what`s the difference? LOTS! The Bible contains primary sources within its pages. Also the very evidence that disproves evolution will often hold strong evidence for creation. So those are the basics in less than 1000 characters. If you feel I missed something please speak up.
  157. Profile photo of YoSoyNoob
    YoSoyNoob Male 18-29
    57 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 11:58 am
    Like Blackipod said about other religions; many other prominent religions have stories of a great flood. This for me is some kind of proof because they all talk about how life was destroyed. And for everyone that say that this is propaganda many people would feel the same way if they were doing it with evolution. If its a scientist up there talking about evolution he`s a genius if its a scientist talking about creationism they are a crackpot. I just dont get it.
  158. Profile photo of AyJay
    AyJay Female 13-17
    33 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 11:59 am
    Sorry everyone must go and get food!! Been fun debating with you and it definatly made me think! Have fun with the rest of the debate!! Bye! xxxxxxx
  159. Profile photo of Turnshroud
    Turnshroud Female 18-29
    4230 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 12:00 pm
    Why is it that that stupidity only exists in Christendom? Which is a religion found by a JEW because the ROMANS were afraid he’d create an UPRISING and CRUIXED him like ALL other CHRISTIANS? Wait…he founded it but he died because the Rpmans were afraid.

    Seriously, you are closed-minded.

    Ok, i9f God spoke and he said…. in the beginning there were microorganisms…no one would believe you, and they wouldn’t know what you meant.

  160. Profile photo of REBELComx
    REBELComx Male 18-29
    477 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 12:00 pm
    Baalthazag, there certainly could be 2000 religions with 1 million followers each...are you forgetting that there are about 8 or 9 billion people on the planet?
  161. Profile photo of KoalaMeatPie
    KoalaMeatPie Male 18-29
    2582 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 12:01 pm
    Sus123:

    So, the Japanese attacked pearl harbour right?
    How do you know?
    How do you know it wasn`t really the Egyptiens?
    Where you there?

    Well, for one thing, we have all these papers stating the plans, we have all the evidence at pearl harbour, Crashed Zero fighters, etc etc.

    Same thing with evolution, we have all this evidence it happened, it would be pretty foolish to say that the egyptians attack pearl harbour when we have all the evidence saying otherwise.

  162. Profile photo of RPossum
    RPossum Male 30-39
    1059 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 12:01 pm
    Dolly you just said to an Atheist: Its true because larry told me its true and he wrote it in a book. P.S. Larry died 2000 years ago.
    Science can show you the mutation of cells which is the basis of the theory of evolution. Its observable.
  163. Profile photo of Mjustin
    Mjustin Male 18-29
    335 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 12:01 pm
    @ DollyDD - It was "Creation: `where`s the proof?`" And what evidence is there to disprove evolution and prove creation, and what "primary sources" in the Bible do you speak of?
  164. Profile photo of AyJay
    AyJay Female 13-17
    33 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 12:01 pm
    in response to unbelievable...ask any scientist and they will tell you science is NOT facts...it is made up of theories that may be disproved later in the future, as we have done before...so don`t be so ignorant...
  165. Profile photo of Turnshroud
    Turnshroud Female 18-29
    4230 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 12:02 pm
    Just to add, yes, there is morethan enough proof from around the world that a great flood happened.

    Egyptions, greeks...

  166. Profile photo of TGPZarquon
    TGPZarquon Male 30-39
    166 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 12:02 pm
    AyJay said: "many theories have been thought up and disproven over history and I believe many things shall be disproven in the future. All I`m saying is that many things in science are not solid fact..."

    But that`s what science is! When something disproves a theory, you find a BETTER one. Newton`s physics were imperfect, but they were the best thing around until Einstein came up with relativity. The key word is BETTER- a better theory is one that solves the problem of a previous theory, but can still be proven through reproduced experiments. You can defend anything you want to imagine by saying that science hasn`t come up with a way of proving it.

    What I can never understand is how could anyone`s belief in science challenge their existing faith in God? God gave us brains to figure things out with, not to ignore the evidence around us. How does evolution make God any less powerful or majestic? How does understanding fusion make the sun and the stars any less beautiful?

  167. Profile photo of KoalaMeatPie
    KoalaMeatPie Male 18-29
    2582 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 12:02 pm
    Kougaiji:

    You discarded your faith this year?
    Right on!!!
    Here`s some porn:

    www.orsm.net

  168. Profile photo of DollyDD
    DollyDD Female 13-17
    14 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 12:03 pm
    "My first is do you believe god helps people, heals cancer for some, etc. " Yes. Or were you looking for an essay on the subject?
    _________________
    "Ok Dolly can you answer some of RPossum`s questions that I couldn`t? Like why do we not stone our neighbours for working on sundays?"
    We are not to judge our neighbors. We are to love them as Jesus commanded. God will judge everyone as he sees just on judgement day. The Bible tells us directly that our God is a just God.
  169. Profile photo of Turnshroud
    Turnshroud Female 18-29
    4230 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 12:04 pm
    we should just post a cbox and debate
  170. Profile photo of YoSoyNoob
    YoSoyNoob Male 18-29
    57 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 12:04 pm
    The proof I would need to see to trust that evolution is real is some evidence. I want to see a half bird half pig because if its true that it does take millions of years to evolve then there should be many of these. It doesnt have to be a Bird/pig just something.
  171. Profile photo of RPossum
    RPossum Male 30-39
    1059 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 12:05 pm
    See ya AyJay, its been fun, enjoyed reading your arguements a lot.
    I`m probably going to stop for lunch soon too, it will be interesting to come back to this thread.
  172. Profile photo of Mjustin
    Mjustin Male 18-29
    335 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 12:05 pm
    @ YoSoyNoob - That`s not how it works. Read up a bit on evolution and get back to us.
  173. Profile photo of blackmind
    blackmind Male 13-17
    696 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 12:05 pm
    I have lost all faith in humanity.
    If this keeps happening, I`m going postal.
  174. Profile photo of REBELComx
    REBELComx Male 18-29
    477 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 12:06 pm
    Noob - I would point you to the Archeopterex...half lizard, half bird. A dinosaur with feathers.
  175. Profile photo of DollyDD
    DollyDD Female 13-17
    14 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 12:07 pm
    @ KoalaMeatPie who said: "Answers in Genisis is the biggest load of Creationist BS on the web...etc."

    I`ll ask that you calm down and refer me to the article so that I may read it myself.

  176. Profile photo of Turnshroud
    Turnshroud Female 18-29
    4230 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 12:07 pm
    http://turncloak.cbox.ws/

    If anyone likes, I`ve created a cbox for an easier debate

  177. Profile photo of RPossum
    RPossum Male 30-39
    1059 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 12:11 pm
    Dolly: You referenced the bible saying god will judge when in the bible it says kill thy neighbor if they work on a sabath. It says that you are to do it. Not wait for god.

    The second part of the first question is then: If god heals diseases, why doesn`t he heal amputees? I mean he intervenes when your sick but if you lose a leg it sucks to be you...to bad that atheist cut your leg off. I mean do you really believe that god will heal cancer of some in his divine plan but leave every last amputee to his own misery?

  178. Profile photo of TGPZarquon
    TGPZarquon Male 30-39
    166 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 12:11 pm
    YoSoyNoob - When the ice ages ended, the water levels rose. 10,000 years ago, the sea levels were about 20 meters lower then they are today. (Which is how the Native Americans walked to America from Asia across the Bering Strait.) So it`s possible that what was chronicled in the Bible as "The Great Flood" was merely the end of the ice ages.
  179. Profile photo of KoalaMeatPie
    KoalaMeatPie Male 18-29
    2582 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 12:14 pm
    DollyDD:

    ... I am calm. Telling somebody to calm down is one of the best sure fire ways to piss them off.

    Just because somebody swears, doesn`t mean theya re angry. It could be as an adjective or noun. Like it did with BS.

    As for the article:
    Why couldn`t you just go to your own site and type out Speed of light in the search bar click on the very first link?

    I mean, I have the url right here.

    I`m not your servent, do it yourself.

  180. Profile photo of KoalaMeatPie
    KoalaMeatPie Male 18-29
    2582 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 12:16 pm
    And yes, it`s because you told me to calm down.
  181. Profile photo of RPossum
    RPossum Male 30-39
    1059 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 12:17 pm
    Regarding the Flood there is a fantastic documentary, I don`t have the link I`m sorry, which proves a major flood did occur on a river that passed near a city and one of the only people to survive in the area was a wealthy live stock merchant.
    I bet if the tidal wave `tsunami` that hit thailand a while back were back in biblical times it would make one heck of a story.
  182. Profile photo of swankdat
    swankdat Female 13-17
    85 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 12:18 pm
    wow what a bunch of ignorant non-nice individuals. id like to go on the tour just to listen to the bs they`re feeding the kids.
  183. Profile photo of KoalaMeatPie
    KoalaMeatPie Male 18-29
    2582 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 12:18 pm
    YoSoyNoob, you obviously don`t understand how evolution works.

    However, I will meet your half way there, for people saying we can`t observe evolution because it takes too long, therefore there is no proof or evidence, I`d like you all to turn to the Peppered Moth:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peppered_mo...

  184. Profile photo of DollyDD
    DollyDD Female 13-17
    14 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 12:19 pm
    RPossum said: "Dolly you just said to an Atheist: Its true because larry told me its true and he wrote it in a book. P.S. Larry died 2000 years ago.
    Science can show you the mutation of cells which is the basis of the theory of evolution. Its observable."
    _________________
    No offense, but this is old news- and not in the way you`re thinking either. Sure cells mutate okay but check out >www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v13/il/monkeys.asp< and read the following: cells mutate by accident but are they really going to mutate to such extent that a cell comes from something nonliving and mutates into everything we see today? That`s a leap of faith right there. Mutations are a negative thing. (this is where you try and refute this by telling me about all the lovely mutations that help animals. That`s nice... but the benefit doesn`t outweigh the damage.) Also, can you really say "INTELLIGENT scientists made amino acids in a lab so now we know that INTELLIGENT d
  185. Profile photo of RPossum
    RPossum Male 30-39
    1059 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 12:19 pm
    Dolly please read the passage in the bible that commands you to kill those who work on a sabbath before preaching that the bible says love and accept thy neighbor. It says both, and I referenced the passage earlier. If you are to throw one side of the bible at me as proof, you have to answer why the other side says different.
  186. Profile photo of Lompocus
    Lompocus Male 13-17
    296 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 12:20 pm
    This is just horrible. As a Catholic I can`t believe there`s idiots in my religion (a very loud idiotic group, mind you) that believe what`s in this video.

    A rough outline of how it`s believed and taught in every single Catholic school (And many don`t learn because their parents tell them its wrong. Then they conver to a chrsitian sect.): God made the whole frickin universe.

    That`s it. The rest is there to explain the unexplainable in life. There`s no magical `garden of eden`. There`s no magical `perfect organization of how the world was made`. There`s no magical `7 days = totally made dah w0rld`. It`s an easy way to explain quantum mechanics to the people living back then.

    I`ll continue in that many parts are just wrong in teh Bible. Moses did not part the red sea. That part translates to `reed sea` in the original text . God works through nature. Evolution is His method of making everything work.

    To not believe that and to ignore evolution is to blaspheme.

  187. Profile photo of monktoast
    monktoast Male 18-29
    263 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 12:20 pm
    I wish they would do a story with real creation scientists instead of creation rhetorician`s.

    The scientists who use scientific evidence to disprove many common believed things, destroying universalism.

    The fact is, science cannot and will not have any facts for the origins, because science depends on eye witness observation.

    The bible if it is to be believed, which I do, is testimony from eye witness account, God himself.

    I can go on and on about real scientific evidence that proves God, which most people are disingenuously lied to about and told there is no scientific evidence for God, by humanists and atheistic evangelicals.

  188. Profile photo of KoalaMeatPie
    KoalaMeatPie Male 18-29
    2582 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 12:20 pm
    RPossum:

    OOOO

    I saw that!

    Story of Noah, He bing a merchant and the livestock became the scared animals?

    And how they had to drink beer for substence?

    Also that there is not enough water, glaciers or even subterranian for the earth to be compleatly covered, and that if there was, we`d basically drown by breathing due to the amount of water in the air?

  189. Profile photo of Turnshroud
    Turnshroud Female 18-29
    4230 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 12:21 pm
    Swan- no. Go, and act `curiouse` and ask questions. And at the end be like "This sucks, I`m gonna go in to anthropology (Or some other religion)
  190. Profile photo of Lompocus
    Lompocus Male 13-17
    296 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 12:21 pm
    One more part: Yes, the old testament says kill your neighbor, stone him, burn him, etc. when he does these things. The point: Jews and Catholics don`t do these things anymore in the modern world.

    Muslims will, however.

  191. Profile photo of KoalaMeatPie
    KoalaMeatPie Male 18-29
    2582 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 12:22 pm
    It`s a very good documentary, it tries to PROVE the flood happened, but keeps hitting on everything which makes it impossible for the Noah`s sotry to hold up roight.

    Like a ship that size would literly break in half because they didn`t have the right materials or enginearing know how. (as specified in the bible how it was made)

  192. Profile photo of piscivous
    piscivous Male 50-59
    146 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 12:22 pm
    The links, the arguements, oy.

    I doubt if we`re going to hear any pigs singing...

    (is that ref. too obscure?)

  193. Profile photo of Lompocus
    Lompocus Male 13-17
    296 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 12:22 pm
    repost

    This is just horrible. As a Catholic I can`t believe there`s idiots in my religion (a very loud idiotic group, mind you) that believe what`s in this video.

    A rough outline of how it`s believed and taught in every single Catholic school (And many don`t learn because their parents tell them its wrong. Then they conver to a chrsitian sect.): God made the whole frickin universe.

    That`s it. The rest is there to explain the unexplainable in life. There`s no magical `garden of eden`. There`s no magical `perfect organization of how the world was made`. There`s no magical `7 days = totally made dah w0rld`. It`s an easy way to explain quantum mechanics to the people living back then.

    I`ll continue in that many parts are just wrong in teh Bible. Moses did not part the red sea. That part translates to `reed sea` in the original text . God works through nature. Evolution is His method of making everything work.

    To not believe that and to ignore evolution is to blaspheme.

  194. Profile photo of RPossum
    RPossum Male 30-39
    1059 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 12:23 pm
    cells mutate by accident but are they really going to mutate to such extent that a cell comes from something nonliving and mutates into everything we see today?
    This is the greatest arguement to face, the one I ask myself. Not where did the universe come from but where did life come from and yes, it is my BELIEF that matter has organized itself throughout time for longer than I can imagine, and in one of endless combinations life occured, and due to the vast amount of time, space, and matter, a form of life was inevitable.
    After that evolution began to take place. However, I will grant that I am relying on the theory of probability of virtually infinite time, and space. I will simply answer here that ultimately I don`t know, but I don`t immediately leap to God from a lack of knowledge to fill that gap.
  195. Profile photo of Turnshroud
    Turnshroud Female 18-29
    4230 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 12:24 pm
    Lompocius. Dude, if I had to choose between a religion with crazy one sided morons and one with the same releifs as Martin Lutho, which has not changed that much and is defamned countlss times and attacked metsphorically and literally, I`d choose the later
  196. Profile photo of Mjustin
    Mjustin Male 18-29
    335 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 12:26 pm
    @ DollyDD - Stop citing Answering Genesis. We all know that website is a load of BS. Evolution has nothing to do with abiogenesis, so stop saying it does.
  197. Profile photo of monktoast
    monktoast Male 18-29
    263 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 12:26 pm
    And to theistic evolutionists, saying God made evolution, I just ask for one scientific lab work that shows a species turning into another, step by step.
    or

    show me one species that you claim evolved from another, and give me the step by step how it did it. Every atom and nuetron.

    This does not include speciation or one species changing, but remaning the same species, ie a dove and a crow, they are both birds.

    failing this, you belief is non scientific and you are using faith to believe the hype of universalism.

    God could not have created evolution (one species changing into another) if evolution does not exist.

  198. Profile photo of Lompocus
    Lompocus Male 13-17
    296 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 12:26 pm
    We havn`t been able to create living from nonliving as of yet. Granted, given enough time we could probably recreate whatever occurence it was that created the first living anything...but I doubt so.

    Therefore, I give credit to God for creation.

  199. Profile photo of DollyDD
    DollyDD Female 13-17
    14 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 12:29 pm
    RPossum says "The second part of the first question is then: If god heals diseases, why doesn`t he heal amputees? I mean he intervenes when your sick but if you lose a leg it sucks to be you...to bad that atheist cut your leg off. I mean do you really believe that god will heal cancer of some in his divine plan but leave every last amputee to his own misery?"____
    The Bible says do not murder, I wonder where it says the opposite. Hmmm? Do tell.

    Then there you go again with your yes or no questions. (very conveinient when trying not to go over 1000 characters). Again the answer is yes. Some people God chooses to heal and some people he doesn`t. When you read about miricles in the Bible, God heals only those who have faith in him. If you have a deep doubt in your heart, then you`re not expecting anything good anyway-- what have you lost? Also, God is outside of human understanding. It is not surprising that we don`t understand everything about him. If we did, he wouldn`t be

  200. Profile photo of Lompocus
    Lompocus Male 13-17
    296 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 12:29 pm
    @ turnshroud: Most christian sects pick and choose whatever they want nowdays! You stupid idiot, you continue to believe in a backwards group in the hope that you `return to the original christian values and traditions`...albeit cutting out all those little traditions and values you deem too problematic for your lifestyle.
  201. Profile photo of Mjustin
    Mjustin Male 18-29
    335 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 12:29 pm
    @ monktoast - Scientific evidence that proves God`s existence? Do tell.

    Plus, telling how one species evolved from another ATOM BY ATOM is unreasonable. That`s like saying "count the exact number of atoms in each of these ten thousand similar creatures and compare the differences."

  202. Profile photo of elway
    elway Male 18-29
    185 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 12:29 pm
    I really hate all this one sided bullsh*t, those people need to let the kids hear both sides of the story and figure this sh*t out themselves, otherwise its just unfair for the children. The children!!!
  203. Profile photo of TGPZarquon
    TGPZarquon Male 30-39
    166 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 12:31 pm
    monktoast said: "The fact is, science cannot and will not have any facts for the origins, because science depends on eye witness observation.

    The bible if it is to be believed, which I do, is testimony from eye witness account, God himself.

    I can go on and on about real scientific evidence that proves God, which most people are disingenuously lied to about and told there is no scientific evidence for God, by humanists and atheistic evangelicals."

    You can claim anything you want to imagine is real, as long as you imagine some reason why it can`t be scientifically disproved.

    How exactly do you know that the Bible is God`s eyewitness account? Because the Bible says so? THAT is circular reasoning. Proof, please.

    This issue of evolution has NOTHING to do with disproving God - it`s saying that the stories shepherds came up with thousands of years ago are not scientifically accurate. There`s a huge difference. Having said that, I would love to see any "scientific

  204. Profile photo of Lompocus
    Lompocus Male 13-17
    296 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 12:31 pm
    @ Dolly: you`re an idiot.

    If you believe in the good Lord, and if you lose your arm today, you will not grow it back.

    Bad stuff happens to good people. Doesn`t that suck? I can sprinkle some of that powder someone designed to heal his amputated finger (featured on a few sites, gizmodo, dailytech, etc.) and I would be performing a god-like miracle, wouldn`t I?

    I think the matter of healing is a bit more complicated than what you`re thinking about.

  205. Profile photo of Turnshroud
    Turnshroud Female 18-29
    4230 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 12:34 pm
    Lambocus: I`m not Christian. Ok, maybe I sounded a little to But stilll, you have to admit, there have been alot of issues with in the church itsel.

    But alas, all religions took spomthing from the other, so, hyard to explain.

    IT`s just that there`s a small percent, mostly Americans (Guilty! This is because of the media that I think it) That are moe `seriouse`

  206. Profile photo of DollyDD
    DollyDD Female 13-17
    14 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 12:34 pm
    "One more part: Yes, the old testament says kill your neighbor, stone him, burn him, etc. when he does these things. The point: Jews and Catholics don`t do these things anymore in the modern world.
    Muslims will, however."
    ____
    Ahhh... the old testament. We don`t sacrifice animals to be forgiven of our sins anymore, now do we? This is because when Jesus died on the cross we were freed from our sins because Jesus is the ultimate sacrifice. Many things changed when Jesus came to Earth, died on a cross and conquered death with his resurrection back to life after 3 days.
  207. Profile photo of KoalaMeatPie
    KoalaMeatPie Male 18-29
    2582 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 12:35 pm
    Lompocus: Not exactly, it still happens.
    But then again, every Religion (or lack thereof) can be violent, just religious people have the bible to back them up... Like passages from the New Bible. Being Quoted from Jesus.

    Luke 19:27 :

    "Those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them - bring them here and kill them infront of me" - Jesus

    That pretty much says Kill Non Catholics in the name of Jesus Christ.

    The Question is, why arn`t you?
    I mean, the bible says It, Jesus / GOD said it.
    First in many many passages in the old testament, and reafirmed it with Jesus in the New.

    Are you not Christian? Why arn`t you doing the Bible`s Bidding? It says it right there.

    Or do you doupt?

    Do you not know that Doupt is the one Unforgivable sin?

    Luke 12:10,
    and
    Mark 3:29:

    Whosoever blasphemes against the holly spirit can never have forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin.

  208. Profile photo of Lompocus
    Lompocus Male 13-17
    296 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 12:36 pm
    Start speaking an intelligible form of english that isn`t brought about by some idiotic need to say you`re right, turn, and the iambored community and I will be more than happy to talk.
  209. Profile photo of DollyDD
    DollyDD Female 13-17
    14 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 12:36 pm
    To Koala: I`m sorry that I angered you. I am a little on edge too. I`m not a very fast typer and I am having trouble keeping up with the comments addressed to me.
  210. Profile photo of Mrjimmycm
    Mrjimmycm Male 18-29
    108 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 12:37 pm
    Holy Cow! Stop the freakin arguing! Trust me, it causes more harm for both sides than good.
  211. Profile photo of KoalaMeatPie
    KoalaMeatPie Male 18-29
    2582 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 12:37 pm
    I mean, it says it right there,

    If you Speak out against Killing Non Catholics like Jesus Said you should,

    You`re Blaspheming the Holly Spirit.

    And if you are, then you can`t be forgiven, and Will go To hell.

    Intresting Isn`t it?

  212. Profile photo of zoinks
    zoinks Male 13-17
    438 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 12:37 pm
    at the begining when he said "the j-word" i was reminded at south
    park

    DOnt say the f-word!!
    what, jew?

  213. Profile photo of RPossum
    RPossum Male 30-39
    1059 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 12:38 pm
    Dolly: so no amputee has ever had enough faith for god to heal them? Only those with diseases have?

    Also: The bible commands us to kill in the following passages, please read: Exodus 31:15 - Commands us to kill those who work on sabbath.
    Deut 17:12 - Asks us to take those who do not believe in God and stone them at our gates and Deut 13:13-19 then asks us to attack and kill EVERYONE in a town that does not beleive in him.
    Leviticus 20:10 commands us to kill a woman who has sex before marriage.
    Deut 21 commands us to KILL OUR CHILDREN if we can`t control them.
    Mathews 18:7-9 Command us to cut off our sinful limbs if they commit sin.
    Leviticus 25:44 advocates slavery. I`m out of room but you get the gist.

  214. Profile photo of Lompocus
    Lompocus Male 13-17
    296 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 12:38 pm
    @ koala: It pretty much says that, yup.

    It`s also part of a parable. There`s another one about a wedding where the king totally pwns everyone who`s not dressed in a certain ways. It`s not meant to be taken literally, is it?

    As far as the unforgiveable sin is, it`s more of doing something stupidly terrible, knowing it`s stupidly terrible, and doing it anyways (ala saddam, hitler, or someone who decides to kill someone for th hell of it).

  215. Profile photo of DollyDD
    DollyDD Female 13-17
    14 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 12:39 pm
    to Koala: there are 294 results for "speed of light"
  216. Profile photo of TGPZarquon
    TGPZarquon Male 30-39
    166 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 12:39 pm
    Monktoast, may I ask - why would it make God any less majestic if evolution were real? God gave us all brains to solve problems. Science is the exploration into how God`s universe works. If it were true that all of God`s creation evolved from primordial soup, wouldn`t that make all of God`s creation closer to each other and part of the same whole? Does knowing how fusion works make the sun and the stars any less beautiful?

    In fact, if God created evolution and if it were a constant factor in life, wouldn`t that be proof that God has a constant hand in existence?

    I`m not trying to put you on the spot- you have your beliefs and I respect them. I`ve just never understood how using the brain God gave you to understand his creation rather than just taking it as read what people wrote thousands of years ago could possibly shake your faith in Him or all of His glory?

  217. Profile photo of Lompocus
    Lompocus Male 13-17
    296 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 12:40 pm
    Just an aside (I havn`t refreshed the page yet so I`ll reply to everyone later on): There`s so much false information in this thread a moderator should just purge the comments list so we can start up again.
  218. Profile photo of Turnshroud
    Turnshroud Female 18-29
    4230 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 12:40 pm
    Damn, this debates growing harsh. I`m just going to watch on the sidelines, at which point in time i will crearte a nice long speech (Maybe) and post it.

    Lombocus so are you a creationist or not?

  219. Profile photo of 8276069
    8276069 Male 13-17
    52 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 12:40 pm
    I can`t believe that half of Americans are creationalists, even my pastor believes in evolution. That`s just brainwashing that they`re doing at that museum. "You`re trained to be an evolutionist, but you NEED to be a creationalist." This is just stupid.
  220. Profile photo of Lompocus
    Lompocus Male 13-17
    296 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 12:40 pm
    @ dolly: STFU
  221. Profile photo of KoalaMeatPie
    KoalaMeatPie Male 18-29
    2582 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 12:40 pm
    It says it TWICE within the Bible, If in doupt, thrown out (of the kingdom of god)

    Doupt the word of God, speak out against the bible, go to hell.

    The Bible, (New testament) Freakin` Jesus said to kill Non Believers, or at the very least, people like me speaking out against him.

    If you have a problem with that, even just thinking it, in your mind, saying thats wrong, they you`re immidiatly going to hell, never to be forgiven.

    The only way to Not be cought is to NOT THINK.

    Which seems to be the problem in the first place.

  222. Profile photo of Mrjimmycm
    Mrjimmycm Male 18-29
    108 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 12:41 pm
    Koalameatpie- That was Jesus speaking in a parable. He didn`t actually say "Those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them - bring them here and kill them infront of me". That is just twisting it all around. He was speaking as a character in the parable.
  223. Profile photo of KoalaMeatPie
    KoalaMeatPie Male 18-29
    2582 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 12:41 pm
    Dolly:

    http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs2002...

  224. Profile photo of Turnshroud
    Turnshroud Female 18-29
    4230 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 12:41 pm
    KMP: Say what?
  225. Profile photo of DollyDD
    DollyDD Female 13-17
    14 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 12:42 pm
    To Mjustin who said:"@ DollyDD - Stop citing Answering Genesis. We all know that website is a load of BS. Evolution has nothing to do with abiogenesis, so stop saying it does."
    ________
    When you prove that evolution is true and that AIG is all that you say, then I shall stop citing it. I don`t think that`s unfair do you?
  226. Profile photo of RPossum
    RPossum Male 30-39
    1059 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 12:43 pm
    As far as the unforgiveable sin is, it`s more of Lomp: "doing something stupidly terrible, knowing it`s stupidly terrible, and doing it anyways (ala saddam, hitler, or someone who decides to kill someone for th hell of it)."

    Know, the unforgivable sin is denying the holy spirit. Thats it...thats the only unforgiveable sin.

  227. Profile photo of Turnshroud
    Turnshroud Female 18-29
    4230 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 12:44 pm
    I agree with Dolly, stop citing that stupid site! GET A REAL CITATION!
  228. Profile photo of Lompocus
    Lompocus Male 13-17
    296 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 12:46 pm
    Last comment, for turnshroud and everyone else:

    I believe, as a Catholic, that the Lord created the Universe. At an interdeterminte point in time, something happened which created life. 13 billion years a chain of various lifeforms arise on Earth, and over the next billion more and more advanced forms of life evolve. Humanity eventually comes about. We seek the answer to how we came to be. We try to create life from non-life and fail to get life, various times (though we`ve succeeded at making new life from other life). We see God as the way we came about. We see that life came up through what we call Evolution.

    So I`m a mix. Everyone should be. I think it`s preposterous to see such a line between evolution and God. It`s stupid to think that all of science can`t be in line with the Bible.

    And with that, I gotta say adios. Now I`m gonna go see if staring at titties for 30 minutes is as much exercise as running on a treadmill for the same amount of time!

  229. Profile photo of monktoast
    monktoast Male 18-29
    263 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 12:46 pm
    I know that the bible is God`s written account because it is the only document in history that has proven historically that its prophecies came true.

    I believe it is God`s written testament because it can be compellingly proven that Jesus DID raise from the dead, hence validating His words that the bible is God`s written testament, and that Jesus himself is God and was described as being " the word of God" jn 1:1,14

    so you see, this is not circular reasoning.

    and may i add that it is impossible to prove or disprove atheism? so your reaosningthat you can believe anything if it cant be proven applies to the opposite as well.

    When I asked to describe an evolutionary cycle, one species to another atom by atom i was usign hyperbole, I just meant, without the use of speculation. Describe how its done, that has been tested and verified. Such as, how does something "evolve" feathers? not speculation, but how is it done by showing the dna sequence lineages step by st

  230. Profile photo of Turnshroud
    Turnshroud Female 18-29
    4230 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 12:46 pm
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creation-evolution_controversy>Contraversy">http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...
  231. Profile photo of RPossum
    RPossum Male 30-39
    1059 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 12:46 pm
    Please, allow Dolly to pull whatever resources she needs to make her case. As long as she accepts that we do not accept these resources as proof, as its content does not show proof.
  232. Profile photo of KoalaMeatPie
    KoalaMeatPie Male 18-29
    2582 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 12:47 pm
    Yes, it`s from a parrable, but that was the Moral of the story.

    And right after he says this, Jesus Steals a Donkey:

    LUke 19:30
    "Go to the village ahead of you, and as you enter it, you will find a colt tied there, which no one has ever ridden. Untie it and bring it here. 31If anyone asks you, `Why are you untying it?` tell him, `The Lord needs it.` "

  233. Profile photo of Mjustin
    Mjustin Male 18-29
    335 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 12:47 pm
    @ DollyDD - And why should I have to prove that evolution is true? Creationists don`t seem to feel like they should prove God`s existence.

    That`s beside the point anyway. Answering Genesis is a horribly biased site that twists around any scientific information it can find to fit its own agenda.

  234. Profile photo of Lompocus
    Lompocus Male 13-17
    296 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 12:47 pm
    @ koala: For lack of a better way to explain it, take that particular parable of the wedding banquet, teh second time it says to kill the nonbelievers.

    Replace `kill the nonbelievers` with `don`t listen to them, they are a lost cause`. Back then it was more fashionable to use kill so informally.

    NOW that`s my last post.

  235. Profile photo of Turnshroud
    Turnshroud Female 18-29
    4230 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 12:48 pm
    The only thing that doesn`t fit is the gap of modern man and ape.

    What if Adam and Eve were the first MODERN humans? IS that possible? I don`t truely know

  236. Profile photo of KoalaMeatPie
    KoalaMeatPie Male 18-29
    2582 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 12:49 pm
    Lompocus:

    Yeah, of course, if you start moving words around from the bible to fit your own cause, it doesn`t sound that bad.

  237. Profile photo of RPossum
    RPossum Male 30-39
    1059 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 12:49 pm
    "I believe it is God`s written testament because it can be compellingly proven that Jesus DID raise from the dead"

    A missing body is not proof of rising from the dead. Its just not, unfortunately many bodies have gone missing between then and now.

  238. Profile photo of DollyDD
    DollyDD Female 13-17
    14 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 12:50 pm
    To Lompocus who said :"@ Dolly: you`re an idiot.
    If you believe in the good Lord, and if you lose your arm today, you will not grow it back.

    Bad stuff happens to good people. Doesn`t that suck? I can sprinkle some of that powder someone designed to heal his amputated finger (featured on a few sites, gizmodo, dailytech, etc.) and I would be performing a god-like miracle, wouldn`t I?

    I think the matter of healing is a bit more complicated than what you`re thinking about."
    ____________
    That`s all very nice. I`m glad that science (which God created) has a cure for amputation. However that last sentence was completely untrue. I could write an entire book on what I`m thinking about right now. In fact, it`s practically giving me a headache. What I did earlier was give you some breif main points to chew on. I just want you to know that my scope DOES go beyond that for several miles. So let`s not be throwing around posts full of assumptions and name-calling.

  239. Profile photo of KoalaMeatPie
    KoalaMeatPie Male 18-29
    2582 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 12:50 pm
    This shall be my new Sig:

    Jesus Steals a Donkey
    Luke 19:30-36

  240. Profile photo of KimonoThief
    KimonoThief Male 18-29
    126 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 12:50 pm
    Would you rather marry an attractive man or an ugly man? Hopefully that question isn`t too tough! Assuming that most women are like you, then that means most women will find attractive men and have children with them. Ugly men will not have children with as many women. Now assume that children born to attractive men will be more attractive than children born to ugly men. After a long enough time, ugly people will eventually diminish in the population, leaving the vast majority of the population attractive (because every generation, there is a greater ratio of attractive babies born to ugly babies born, meaning less women will have to settle for ugly men). This is the basic idea of natural selection.

    As far as how actual speciation occurs, that is a more difficult concept concerning the actual genetic makeup of an organism, which I frankly don`t understand enough to explain :)

  241. Profile photo of TGPZarquon
    TGPZarquon Male 30-39
    166 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 12:51 pm
    Monktoast - which prophesies are these that have been historically proven true? What proof is there that Jesus rose from the dead, other than the Bible says so?

  242. Profile photo of monktoast
    monktoast Male 18-29
    263 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 12:52 pm
    i`m sorry but as usual i cant stand the iambored arena, its too hard to follow threads and too many people to answer to. its to casual for this kind of discussion, and to often it occurs, i have spoken on this many times in here but i rather not anymore.

    i just wish to add, in closing that the religious bigotries at iambored is sad, we are here to have fun and share things we find ont he net and share ideas, not codemn or convict others for those ideas.

  243. Profile photo of RPossum
    RPossum Male 30-39
    1059 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 12:52 pm
    Wow, I`d hate to have that misunderstanding lomp. When my neighbor was complaining about my dog barking and I said, hey budy, why dont you just kill my dog then...well I MEANT why not just not listen to my dog...but that jerk killed my dog anyway! Gah.
  244. Profile photo of catbarf
    catbarf Male 18-29
    1455 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 12:52 pm
    That video was simply sickening. Those children are indoctrinated before ever having the knowledge or logical reasoning to defend themselves.
  245. Profile photo of Mjustin
    Mjustin Male 18-29
    335 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 12:53 pm
    @ monktoast - I`ll ask again, what evidence is there for God`s existence?
    What prophecies from the Bible have come true?
    What proof is there that Jesus rose from the dead (And don`t cite the bible like you just did. That`s circular reasoning)?

    That is very true. You cannot prove Atheism. However, that`s only because Atheism is not a belief; it is a lack of belief.

  246. Profile photo of piscivous
    piscivous Male 50-59
    146 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 12:54 pm
    ook, ook. Me ape-like thing.
    (grunt) Me proto-human
    Little john the conqueroo -- I`m a Man.

    There. Bo Diddley proves Evolution. We can all go home now.

  247. Profile photo of KoalaMeatPie
    KoalaMeatPie Male 18-29
    2582 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 12:55 pm
    monktoast:
    Says the person on the losing side of thea rgument.

    Guess what?
    This is a religious debate.

    This hapens each time a Religion vs Scince post is... posted.

    If you don`t like it, don`t click on the comments, if you do, yes, you will be counter argued and people will poke holes in what you said.

    This goes both ways, it`s called a debate.

    People who participate usually have fun out of it.

    At least I do.

    PLease, don`t expect to say something then not be counter argued because the word of God is not infaliable.

  248. Profile photo of Turnshroud
    Turnshroud Female 18-29
    4230 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 12:56 pm
    monktoast, agreed, maybe we should all head ouut for some beer or coffee, maube get our nerbves cooled one wqay or the other and come back in to thge harshness that is the iab arena.

    But seriously, if this was for real, in a real room we`d all be haorse of speech and your cloths and hands stained with blood

  249. Profile photo of TGPZarquon
    TGPZarquon Male 30-39
    166 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 12:56 pm
    Monktoast - here is some evidence that birds evolved from dinosaurs Can it be proven completely without a a shadow of a doubt? No, because evolution takes millions of years, which is a little slow to observe. Does it make more sense than "God found Dinosaurs (which he created) evil, so he killed them all in the flood."? Yes.

    Life is constantly trying to adapt to the world around it. That`s why frogs are mutating from pollution, why diseases are resisting antibiotics... the list goes on and on. The evidence is all around you.

  250. Profile photo of catbarf
    catbarf Male 18-29
    1455 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 12:57 pm
    KMP, your link provided the following quote:

    "In one fell swoop, this theory, called ‘c decay’2 (CDK) had the potential to supply two profound answers vitally important for a Biblical worldview."

    This is the most disturbing part of Christian `science`- the fact that they decide on their beliefs, and then force all of science to conform to their world-view, looking for any answers that support them and throwing out those that do not.

    "When you prove that evolution is true and that AIG is all that you say, then I shall stop citing it. I don`t think that`s unfair do you?"

    Evolution is as close to proven as gravity is. Go look up what it requires in order to be a scientific theory.

    Creationism, on the other hand, has no credible evidence. It is relying upon fantasy, a `I read it so it must be true` system.

  251. Profile photo of Turnshroud
    Turnshroud Female 18-29
    4230 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 12:58 pm
    MJ- apparently according to these close minded guys...they can wave the Bible and say "THIS IS PROOF OF GOOD! BOW DOWN NOW!"
  252. Profile photo of monktoast
    monktoast Male 18-29
    263 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 12:59 pm
    all i can say to you guys inquiring about this is to find your own answers, i mean, when i want to know about evolution i go do research, so just research it in google. like " historically evidence that Jesus rose from the dead" i`m sure you will get both sides on the matter. i know that answer is lame, but im just admitting i cant use this forum for this.

    but i will say atheism is not a lack of belief, it is a belief that we came from natural causes outside the realm of spirituality or other dimensions, this cannot be proven. you cannot prove that we justappeared, or that the universe is infinite or that soemthign came form nothing.

    thus, atheism is intrinsically impossible to prove.

  253. Profile photo of REBELComx
    REBELComx Male 18-29
    477 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 12:59 pm
    Whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa...Lois, this is not my Batman glass...
    Monk, the bible is the only document in history that has proven historical prophecies? How convenient that these prophesies were all fortold AND came true BEFORE either were actualy written down. Oh and what about Nostradamus? Didn`t his historical prophesies come true? You can`t compellingly prove Jesus rose from the dead because there isn`t any historical or scientific proof he even existed at all! only what is written IN the bible. Romans were sticklers for details, and the only roman historians to even mention jesus did so nearly 100 years after he supposedly died and were referring to the figure the Christian religion was based on. There is no physical evidence of Jesus existing anymore than there is evidence of Hercules, King Arthur, or Beowolf.
  254. Profile photo of TGPZarquon
    TGPZarquon Male 30-39
    166 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 12:59 pm
    OK, I`m reposting as Monktoast has left the building. Will someone on the creationist side please respond?

    May I ask - why would it make God any less majestic if evolution were real? God gave us all brains to solve problems. Science is the exploration into how God`s universe works. If it were true that all of God`s creation evolved from primordial soup, wouldn`t that make all of God`s creation closer to each other and part of the same whole? Does knowing how fusion works make the sun and the stars any less beautiful?

    In fact, if God created evolution and if it were a constant factor in life, wouldn`t that be proof that God has a constant hand in existence?

    I`m not trying to put you on the spot- you have your beliefs and I respect them. I`ve just never understood how using the brain God gave you to understand his creation rather than just taking it as read what people wrote thousands of years ago could possibly shake your faith in Him or all of His glory?

  255. Profile photo of DollyDD
    DollyDD Female 13-17
    14 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 1:00 pm
    Before I leave, I`m just going to say that practically everyone here is taking everything out of context. And to those who aren`t: good job! This obviously isn`t going anywhere because everyone each has their own opinion. I can live with that. What I can`t live with is when good, intelligent people argue for extended periods of time and can`t sleep until a "winner" is proclaimed. Well guess what, for now you can all be winners. Now go take a breather and some asprin.
  256. Profile photo of Mrjimmycm
    Mrjimmycm Male 18-29
    108 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 1:00 pm
    The moral of the story is not to kill non-believers. It simply means that they will face judgement. It isn`t from us. But from Him. This is what happens when you take the story out of context. And Jesus did not order them to steal on Donkey. If someone would say, We are taking your car, the president needs it. I would say.. umm... no... so it is totally implied that it was ok.
  257. Profile photo of catbarf
    catbarf Male 18-29
    1455 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 1:01 pm
    Lompocus, the point is that in rejecting the word of the Bible you are, according to the Bible and thus fundamentalists, condemning yourself to Hell.

    The reason evolution and religion appear to be opposed is because religious people are those who are willing to readily accept something without any evidence. The person who follows evolution does so because it is supported by large amounts of evidence and does not require the implausible at best idea of a mystical creator in order to exist. This person is more likely to be an atheist, since he is demonstrating an unwillingness to believe in things that lack empirical data.

  258. Profile photo of RPossum
    RPossum Male 30-39
    1059 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 1:01 pm
    Its nto to say you can`t get information from a book, you can. However, if the claims in that book are extrordinary they must be cooberated, and tested and verified. If I get 12 people to say there is a flying spaghetti monster I still think you will say prove it. If I write a book on it, I STILL think you will say prove it. You know why...its extrordinary. However if I write a book that says I let go of a fork and it fell to the floor, I`m pretty sure no one is going to say much more than, oh.
    The Bible is just not enough. It is not proof in and of itself, it needs to be cooberated, its claims validated such as the flood.
  259. Profile photo of Baalthazaq
    Baalthazaq Male 18-29
    4548 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 1:01 pm
    "There could be 2000 religions with over a million people" + "The earth has 8-9 billion people".

    http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Ad...

    + from wiki: The world population is the total number of humans on Earth at a given time. In March 2008, the world`s population is believed to have reached over 6.70 billion

    There are 19 current religions with over a million members. Give or take. I seriously doubt it`s gone up %10`000.

    The maximum possible is 450 million people who describe themselves as "other" even using your figure of 9 billion people on earth. (I.e. giving you a fictional 2.3 billion people).

    Next time, look it up yourself instead of trying to contradict me with drivel. "There could be..." pffft, like hell. Mathematically impossible even using your made up numbers.

  260. Profile photo of monktoast
    monktoast Male 18-29
    263 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 1:02 pm
    tgb,t hat is all specualtion, sorry. i don`t respect the word "probably" in any scientific explanation.

    "dinoisaurs" that have feathers do not prove birds came form dinosaurs. it just proves that there were things that had feathers, and they coudl be just birds as much as they coudl be dinosaurs, there is not enough scientific data to say otherwise, thus speculation is used for propoganda in teaching evolution as truth.

  261. Profile photo of KoalaMeatPie
    KoalaMeatPie Male 18-29
    2582 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 1:03 pm
    catbarf:

    I`m on your side, I was providing the link to Dolly because it was such bad science.

  262. Profile photo of Turnshroud
    Turnshroud Female 18-29
    4230 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 1:03 pm
    God made he universe, wha what he all so made resulted in man as life evolvved.

    Is modern man an invenfrion of God DIREC TLY? Maybe

  263. Profile photo of TGPZarquon
    TGPZarquon Male 30-39
    166 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 1:04 pm
    tgb,t hat is all specualtion, sorry. i don`t respect the word "probably" in any scientific explanation.

    Yet you respect that the Bible - which has no facts or even a "probability" to back it up - is scientifically accurate?

  264. Profile photo of RPossum
    RPossum Male 30-39
    1059 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 1:06 pm
    Good night Dolly, I found your comments interesting.

    To those that remain, the bible is rarely clear and consice, but when it is...who are you to change the word of god to fit what you think he meant?

  265. Profile photo of Turnshroud
    Turnshroud Female 18-29
    4230 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 1:06 pm
    Sciencem, being the THEORY of things is an `invention` of man. But the rest is God`s work.

    Wait, am I sounding like a creationist?

    Anywys, the Bible doen`t really PROVE anything/.

    You call dinosours art, I call ther book a very interesting allegorical story which is read around the world

  266. Profile photo of RPossum
    RPossum Male 30-39
    1059 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 1:08 pm
    Baalth, why are you quoting that, I said over time, why would you not read my response. 2000 religions since religion began that have had over 1 million worshippers. That religion does not have to exist today!! There have been Zeus, and Rah, etc...Your assuming I meant right now in that statement.
  267. Profile photo of Mjustin
    Mjustin Male 18-29
    335 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 1:09 pm
    @ momktoast - No. Atheism (in the sense of a weak Atheist, which is what I am) is a lack of belief in God. You are referring to Humanism.

    Atheism has two definitions. One is a belief that there is no God, and one is a lack of belief that there is a supreme being or beings. The first definition openly denies the existence of God, but the second, which is what I`m referring to, leaves open the possibility that there is some sort of deity.


    Why must people mix up definitions so much? It`s like people calling Atheism and evolution "religions."

  268. Profile photo of TheNineXXX
    TheNineXXX Male 18-29
    396 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 1:10 pm
    Is man merely a mistake of God`s? Or God merely a mistake of man`s?
    Friedrich Nietzsche, Twilight of the Idols, Maxims and Arrows
    German philosopher (1844 - 1900)

  269. Profile photo of Turnshroud
    Turnshroud Female 18-29
    4230 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 1:10 pm
    Technically, there are still apparently people that still beleive in the old gods of the Greeks which is cool, but that`s irrelevent.

    Looks like the boil went to a simmer.

  270. Profile photo of Mrjimmycm
    Mrjimmycm Male 18-29
    108 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 1:10 pm
    @Mjustin in other words- agnostic
  271. Profile photo of stevenash
    stevenash Male 18-29
    124 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 1:11 pm
    God created Jesus and the world...Adam and Eve were in heaven when they tasted the forbidden fruit...later on sent to earth where they at the time animals were already in it living, dying, eating each other...these animals evolved and so do humans...evolutions are correct...only the fact that humans were monkeys were hardly opposed by religious views...and earth is not 6000 years old as Jesus was the second last prophet of God...it`s all in the old testament...
  272. Profile photo of Lompocus
    Lompocus Male 13-17
    296 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 1:11 pm
    OK. I come back 10 minutes later and everyones still a drating moron.

    @catbarf: I never rejected the bible and in fact drew parralells between the Lord`s Book and Hard Science!

    @ Koala: You`re just flat out mentally flatlined. Read MrJimmycm`s post.

    @ Dolly: You`re intentions are good but you don`t know how to speak.

    We need to take God on faith. That`s the whole basis of religion. Faith. Jesus is a verification of the Bible. It also happens to tie in with all forms of modern science.

    Hey, let`s get a muslim in here! Let`s see what those backwards morons think!

  273. Profile photo of Turnshroud
    Turnshroud Female 18-29
    4230 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 1:11 pm
    I` consider myself aghnostic, it`s easier. You just beleive in a god
  274. Profile photo of Lompocus
    Lompocus Male 13-17
    296 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 1:12 pm
    *edit* nvm, apparentlyi stevenash is one of those illegal arab muslim immigrants to europe.
  275. Profile photo of RPossum
    RPossum Male 30-39
    1059 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 1:12 pm
    For definition purposes:
    Agnostic = Unsure.
    Nostic = Sure

    So you can be an:
    Nostic Theist = Sure there is a god
    Agnostic Theist = Unsure but leaning towards a diety of some sort.
    Agnostic Athiest = Unsure but you don`t believe there is a god.
    Nostic Atheist = Sure there is no god (deity)

  276. Profile photo of Stentorian
    Stentorian Male 13-17
    426 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 1:12 pm
    Let me straighten everything out.

    Fact: evolution.
    Myth: story of creation.

  277. Profile photo of Lompocus
    Lompocus Male 13-17
    296 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 1:13 pm
    @ stentorian: You pretty much summed it up. We`re talking about how idiots are now trying to say all the Bible is false because of a method to tell antient people of how we got here.
  278. Profile photo of Mrjimmycm
    Mrjimmycm Male 18-29
    108 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 1:13 pm
    Stevenash- God did not create Jesus
  279. Profile photo of Turnshroud
    Turnshroud Female 18-29
    4230 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 1:13 pm
    Eff you Lom, see- you yourself are a one sided guy because that`s what the ape president had you all beleive.

    Searcgh it. I`ll give you a link that shows the cont5rast and comparison of the two. I`ll give you TEN

  280. Profile photo of Lompocus
    Lompocus Male 13-17
    296 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 1:13 pm
    Who did, then, mrjimmycm?
  281. Profile photo of Turnshroud
    Turnshroud Female 18-29
    4230 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 1:14 pm
    Jesus is a MORTAL MAN, History proves it. HISTORY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  282. Profile photo of Mjustin
    Mjustin Male 18-29
    335 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 1:15 pm
    @ Mrjimmycm - Nope. Agnosticism is the belief that the truth about God is unattainable, or that there can be no proof for or against God.
  283. Profile photo of Tonyjet
    Tonyjet Male 18-29
    3299 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 1:15 pm
    Religions work only by scaring people:

    if u take away the belief of hell.... then nobody would give a poo about Christianity Catholisism, or wuteva u like to throw in there

    six thousand years old??? John Mcain is older than dat

  284. Profile photo of cha-chi13
    cha-chi13 Female 18-29
    47 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 1:15 pm
    I normally don`t religious bash, but the soncept the are presenting is completely absurd, and just because you leave information out doesn`t make your views true.. Its ignorant and frusterating! **sorry I`m done now..
  285. Profile photo of REBELComx
    REBELComx Male 18-29
    477 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 1:15 pm
    Speaking of mad up number, Balthazaq, how old do you think the earth is again? Wether there are 6.4 or 9 billion people on the planet, it is still possible for there to be 2000 religions with over 1 million members. I was not saying this IS the case, only that it is POSSIBLE. Even with my incorrect estimation, that would still leave nearly 4 billion people unaccounted for. Stop taking everything so literally (which is, ironicly, what this argument is about anyway).
  286. Profile photo of Mrjimmycm
    Mrjimmycm Male 18-29
    108 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 1:15 pm
    John 1:1- In the begining there was the Word and the Word was God and the Word was With God.- No one created Jesus because Jesus is God.- That is a basic Christian belief. This is not aimed toward a non-believer.
  287. Profile photo of Lompocus
    Lompocus Male 13-17
    296 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 1:15 pm
    damn, we seriously need an edit button.

    Turnshroud, I am a one sided guy. I believe what is fact. What everyone else is bringing up is just plain stupid.

    And our president does suck. In what way am I influenced by that tard?

  288. Profile photo of Lompocus
    Lompocus Male 13-17
    296 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 1:16 pm
    O_O...poo. I`m out. 10 posts in 5 seconds? WTF/???
  289. Profile photo of RPossum
    RPossum Male 30-39
    1059 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 1:16 pm
    Turn, yes I believe Jesus lived, I feel there is sufficient evidence that he existed as a man. However, there have been lots of men who aren`t there fathers and didn`t turn back into gods after they died.
  290. Profile photo of Lompocus
    Lompocus Male 13-17
    296 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 1:17 pm
    @ turnshroud....I guess I`m not out. Whether Jesus is mortal or Divine, we`re taught to believe in his Divinity. The mortality part is not necessarily important.

    The fact that he started the single largest and most imporant movement in the History of the World which influenced how we live today and which preaches a doctrine to respect your fellow humans and live peacefully, however, IS important.

  291. Profile photo of Turnshroud
    Turnshroud Female 18-29
    4230 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 1:18 pm
    The Tard? Ah, sorry mate., It`s just that I think some of his speeches make alotta americans believe they are #1, is all. Yes, Fancylad, be a fancylad and please we need an eit button
  292. Profile photo of Lompocus
    Lompocus Male 13-17
    296 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 1:18 pm
    He was influenced by God`s power. He performed miracles. He resurrected himself and others. Forgot to add that.

    ADD A FRIGGIN EDIT BUTTON, MODS!

  293. Profile photo of Mrjimmycm
    Mrjimmycm Male 18-29
    108 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 1:19 pm
    America sucks and we aren`t God`s chosen. Thats rediculous.
  294. Profile photo of Mjustin
    Mjustin Male 18-29
    335 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 1:19 pm
    Nope, agnostic doesn`t mean unsure, and gnostic doesn`t mean sure. Gnostic means either pertaining to knowledge or possessing knowledge, especially in spiritual matters.
  295. Profile photo of Lompocus
    Lompocus Male 13-17
    296 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 1:19 pm
    America = #1. We didn`t need a monkey`s speeches to tell us that. Since you speak as if we can`t blow up the friggin world at the push of a button, we should send you to canada!
  296. Profile photo of RPossum
    RPossum Male 30-39
    1059 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 1:19 pm
    REBEL , Baath, I wrote the statement you two are argueing about. The 2000 religions are over the entire time that religion has been in existence....
    NOT JUST TODAY
    stop argueing over it because it has been studied, entire societies have worshiped Rah, where none do now.
  297. Profile photo of Mrjimmycm
    Mrjimmycm Male 18-29
    108 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 1:19 pm
    He was influenced by God`s power, or was He in fact, God?
  298. Profile photo of Lompocus
    Lompocus Male 13-17
    296 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 1:20 pm
    Last post: I`ll beat the crap out of everyone who says america aint #1 since 1911.
  299. Profile photo of Tonyjet
    Tonyjet Male 18-29
    3299 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 1:20 pm
    Jesus wasnt a holy man right away...

    i was done as an roman emperor`s plan to unite its nation

    he made jesus into Jesus Christ

  300. Profile photo of Mrjimmycm
    Mrjimmycm Male 18-29
    108 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 1:21 pm
    America is number 1? Wow... sounds like the world is playing a game, huh? Dude... America is not God. It isn`t that great.
  301. Profile photo of RPossum
    RPossum Male 30-39
    1059 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 1:21 pm
    Mj I was just trying to simplify Gnostic and Agnostic, but thank you for qualifying the definition with more information.
  302. Profile photo of RPossum
    RPossum Male 30-39
    1059 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 1:22 pm
    Okay, I`m freakin starving now...can`t pull myself away from this discussion. lol
  303. Profile photo of Mrjimmycm
    Mrjimmycm Male 18-29
    108 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 1:22 pm
    Tonyjet- That is a crackpot theory. It holds little evidience and is mostly disregarded in history.
  304. Profile photo of Lompocus
    Lompocus Male 13-17
    296 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 1:23 pm
    OK...God and all things God = #1, america = #2.

    Saying otherwise = GET RID OF THE NON-AMERICAN!

  305. Profile photo of REBELComx
    REBELComx Male 18-29
    477 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 1:24 pm
    Tonyjet, I don`t think ALL religions are based on scaring people. Most pagan relgions certainly aren`t. But Christianity, judaism, islam definitely are. Christianity more than the others. Hell and Satan were concepts created by the catholic church in the middle ages to scare pagans into converting. Jews don`t beleive in Hell, the first christians (including Jesus) were Jewish. The old testament makes no mention of such a place existing...so why do Christians beleive it? Because the church invented when it was the only authority on scripture and the masses weren`t even allowed to read it.
  306. Profile photo of Mrjimmycm
    Mrjimmycm Male 18-29
    108 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 1:24 pm
    Well... get rid of me then... this country isn`t my home. I have a place prepared for me. Dude... you worship a country.
  307. Profile photo of Turnshroud
    Turnshroud Female 18-29
    4230 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 1:25 pm
    I still think Vlad- the guy who made Russia Christian and Justinian are cool though.

    Oh no, not Canada! Nogt the non-contraddictale place where the commericials are better, where they have free health care and sell booze and smokes in seperate stores! Anything but that! I lives in Canada for 14 years before being foirced toi move here.

    Thing is, America pays better for ntertainment stuff like acting and screenwritting. And Juno or no June, America;s films are BEST! Even tjough alot of things here suck.

    But calling it Jesus Day instead of Christmas is less offense since most beleive in Jesus. It`s just the prophet part the Jewish dislike

  308. Profile photo of Turnshroud
    Turnshroud Female 18-29
    4230 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 1:27 pm
    Mrjimmy: "You worship a counbtry`

    Lolz.

  309. Profile photo of Mrjimmycm
    Mrjimmycm Male 18-29
    108 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 1:27 pm
    Damn Republicans and their Damn Bush with his damn war! Damn country
  310. Profile photo of KoalaMeatPie
    KoalaMeatPie Male 18-29
    2582 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 1:28 pm
    "Hell and Satan were concepts created by the catholic church in the middle ages "

    Not only that, they based it on Stories. Fictional Stories.

    Dante`s Devine Comedy.

  311. Profile photo of catbarf
    catbarf Male 18-29
    1455 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 1:29 pm
    "but i will say atheism is not a lack of belief, it is a belief that we came from natural causes outside the realm of spirituality or other dimensions, this cannot be proven. you cannot prove that we justappeared, or that the universe is infinite or that soemthign came form nothing.

    thus, atheism is intrinsically impossible to prove."

    Buzz, wrong answer, please try again. Atheism is the lack of belief. It is the default position. It does not require a leap of faith or logic, unlike every religion on the planet, and asks those religions to prove themselves before they can be accepted.

    If the atheist says that he believes in Big Bang theory, he believes in a scientific theory, like evolution- an idea that is heavily supported by modern evidence such that there is no significant, credible refutation for it. It is not like Creationism, because it has extremely strong evidence in the forms of cosmic background radiation and movement of galaxies.

    An atheist need not prove a

  312. Profile photo of Turnshroud
    Turnshroud Female 18-29
    4230 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 1:30 pm
    !!!THANK YOU!!!

    What we need is a coount of who is for and who if not, like a congress debate.

  313. Profile photo of catbarf
    catbarf Male 18-29
    1455 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 1:31 pm
    "But calling it Jesus Day instead of Christmas is less offense"

    No, it`s a major offense, seeing as Christmas is as secular a holiday as can be.

  314. Profile photo of Mrjimmycm
    Mrjimmycm Male 18-29
    108 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 1:31 pm
    Koala... you really don`t know what you are talking about. The concept of Hell has been traced back as far as we can trace human history. Could it be that Dante developed his idea of Hades from Christianity? Yes. Dante was a Christian. And you are thinking more of Dante`s inferno as opposed to Dante`s Devine Comedy.
  315. Profile photo of REBELComx
    REBELComx Male 18-29
    477 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 1:32 pm
    Um. Lompocus...I`m American, We suck. The only thing we`re #1 at is obesity. Our economy is sinking, our dollar is now worth less than Canadian money, our healthcare system sucks, our government is corrupted by greed and religion, and there are plenty of European nations who are way ahead of us in Civil Rights. We went from the Land of Opportunity to "Stop Crossing our Borders." We are the fat, drunken douchebag at the world`s dinner party - bragging about poo we do badly just to get attention, blaming everything bad that happens to us on other people, even though we clearly got ourselves into it. Sure there are people far worse than us *cough*Iran*cough*, but we are from being the coolest guy around. In reality...we`re probably only #12
  316. Profile photo of Lompocus
    Lompocus Male 13-17
    296 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 1:32 pm
    @ MRjimmy: Which country you going to?

    WE BOMB IT NEXT WITH NUKES! W00T!

    :). I don`t worship it, I love it and our capability to do whatever the drat we want!

  317. Profile photo of Turnshroud
    Turnshroud Female 18-29
    4230 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 1:33 pm
    Yeah but, Christmas reconizizes it as Christiondom. Whereas Jesus the prophet...so you can only call it....the deay dedicated to the contraversial prophet named Jesus. I havde no clue.

    But the X-mas tree still isn`t Christ related

    All so, w

  318. Profile photo of KoalaMeatPie
    KoalaMeatPie Male 18-29
    2582 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 1:33 pm
    http://torrents.thepiratebay.org/3812309...
  319. Profile photo of aven
    aven Female 18-29
    183 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 1:34 pm
    i`m really enjoying reading this debate. Everyone makes fairly valid points (most valid points seem to be all on the evolutionist side though)
    I just think that humanity is in a transition from old world, where all we believed in was god, jesus etc and didnt have any real advanced forms of science, to the new technology world, where science is pretty much the back-bone of our society, our economy, our governments, our exploration etc.
    Change takes time just as it took about 200-300 years before people actually believed that the earth wasnt flat.
    Humans are naturally resistant to change because we have to rework out neural networks in our brains in order to work through and understand new information.
    Just be patient humanity, everything works out (somewhat) if you give it a little time.
    And think about it, pretty soon our generation will be history told by humans in the future and they will think that we are naive.
  320. Profile photo of Mrjimmycm
    Mrjimmycm Male 18-29
    108 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 1:34 pm
    Wow Lompocus... You claim Christianity, yet you seem to love the idea of killing people you don`t agree with. You are the reason why there are so many atheists. You are a hypocrite. I am sure Jesus would Nuke a country, wouldn`t he... Shh... don`t tell anyone this... Jesus wasn`t an American... neither is God... shhhhhh!
  321. Profile photo of RPossum
    RPossum Male 30-39
    1059 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 1:34 pm
    Oh please, leave Christmas out of it. Christmas is Christs Mass and he deserves credit for this little gem if nothing else. As an Atheist I have the flexibility to celebrate anything I want, and I love the traditions involved, and since I believe there is evidence that Christ did exist I`m more than happy to tilt a beer in his honor and throw gifts at my loved ones for kicks.
  322. Profile photo of Turnshroud
    Turnshroud Female 18-29
    4230 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 1:35 pm
    Dude, Iran isn;t that bad. It`;s better than allk them arab places, although definietly nott like Canada, it`s that El Presidente
  323. Profile photo of KoalaMeatPie
    KoalaMeatPie Male 18-29
    2582 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 1:35 pm
    Mrjimmycm:

    Y&es, river styx, etc etc I know.
    But specifically The description of the Christian Hell and heaven is taken from Dante`s Devine Comedy.

  324. Profile photo of Turnshroud
    Turnshroud Female 18-29
    4230 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 1:37 pm
    Lompocus...Why most people in America are or portrayed as morons
  325. Profile photo of RPossum
    RPossum Male 30-39
    1059 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 1:38 pm
    Why are all the theists turning on each other? You`re as vicious towards each other as you are in your arguements against Atheism...its odd.
  326. Profile photo of Turnshroud
    Turnshroud Female 18-29
    4230 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 1:38 pm
    I call on Fancylad, master of the bored, to conme down upon us doomed mortal men and shine the light of rightiousness on us and bless us wih ann edit button and an anti-flood for posting
  327. Profile photo of catbarf
    catbarf Male 18-29
    1455 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 1:38 pm
    "Yeah but, Christmas reconizizes it as Christiondom. Whereas Jesus the prophet...so you can only call it....the deay dedicated to the contraversial prophet named Jesus. I havde no clue."

    Do Christians reject mistletoe, seeing as it is originally from Pagan rituals? Do you think no atheists ever say `Bless you` when someone sneezes?

    This is a heavily Christian society. But there are many elements of it that are secular in nature, and are easily divorced from their roots.

  328. Profile photo of Mrjimmycm
    Mrjimmycm Male 18-29
    108 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 1:39 pm
    Koala- No... That is how people imagine it because it is creative and seems rather... well... hellish... The only thing that is taught in the bible is that it is a place of eternal punishment and torture. Thats it. That is what I believe... As far as Hell goes- Dante was a Christian. He thought of what he thinks hell would be like. He isn`t wrong. He isn`t right. He doesn`t know. It isn`t bad to adopt the ideas of exactly how souls are tortured there... as long as people don`t preach it like its truth. Most of them don`t.
  329. Profile photo of REBELComx
    REBELComx Male 18-29
    477 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 1:39 pm
    Jimmy, Jews didn`t beleive in hell. They beleived in Sheol, which simply means the grave. Egyptians didn`t have a hell, canaanites, babylonians, celts, gauls...no hell. Even the word Hell is derived from Hel - the Norse goddess of the underworld where EVERYONE went unless you died in battle or childbirth. Hel`s domain was also FROZEN. Most people attribute hell`s aspects to Hades, the greek underworld named after it`s patron god which existed LONG before christians idea of Hell. In Hades, only the very WORST people actualy went to Tartarus where they were punished in a way befitting their crime. The only other culture to come up with the idea of hell separately is the Chinese. And they only refer to the great amount of domains as hell in english because there isn`t any other word for it.
  330. Profile photo of RPossum
    RPossum Male 30-39
    1059 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 1:40 pm
    At any rate: I would like to ask again one question. If god says something clearly in the bible, and he rarely does this so when he does, who are you to reinterpret his word?

    This is going back to the `kill thy working neighbor` arguement.

  331. Profile photo of Mrjimmycm
    Mrjimmycm Male 18-29
    108 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 1:40 pm
    RebelCox. I know all this. We, however call it Hell. That is the english word for both Hades- which is what the jews also called it- and the lake of fire- two completely different places. Dude- I know all this stuff already.
  332. Profile photo of Turnshroud
    Turnshroud Female 18-29
    4230 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 1:41 pm
    od of the Sea and the Romans called him Aquaman. Hehe, THE SIMPSONS RULE.

    Greeks > Romans?

  333. Profile photo of matsch888
    matsch888 Male 18-29
    91 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 1:42 pm
    They are fuc--- freaking brainwashing those kids!
  334. Profile photo of KoalaMeatPie
    KoalaMeatPie Male 18-29
    2582 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 1:43 pm
    Mrjimmycm:

    Yes, it is.
    It actually is.

    Sure, you can trace it back to other sources and those sources arn`t wrong, it`s not exclusively based on Dante, but it IS taken from Dante`s Il Inferno and Il Paradiso.

    How do I know?

    Simple, education.

  335. Profile photo of catbarf
    catbarf Male 18-29
    1455 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 1:43 pm
    Exactly, matsch.
  336. Profile photo of Turnshroud
    Turnshroud Female 18-29
    4230 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 1:45 pm
    YAY! We agree, but thenn where are the creationists ready for the charge?

    I`d hate to see another religion oriented post in the next month. Curse you Fancylad

  337. Profile photo of Mrjimmycm
    Mrjimmycm Male 18-29
    108 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 1:45 pm
    Koala- I know... but as a Christian- I would know what is being taught in church... and we don`t teach that it is exactly how Dante`s Inferno describes it- with different layers- different punishments and so on... we simply believe that it is a place of torment away from God. That is it.
  338. Profile photo of REBELComx
    REBELComx Male 18-29
    477 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 1:48 pm
    Jimmy. clearly you don`t. Jews did not call any place Hades. the word Hades is used in the bible because it was translated poorly from Hebrew texts which used the word Sheol. Sheol simply means The Grave and was more like the modern Catholic idea of Limbo. This is why christ talks about everlasting life, as opposed to simply being dead. For surely if you go to hell, your life is still everlasting, it`s just bad. Hades is a greek word and thus would not have had any place in the Hebrew language. Hell is the english term which came FROM the name of the norse goddess - which existed before the bible was even put together.
  339. Profile photo of Mrjimmycm
    Mrjimmycm Male 18-29
    108 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 1:49 pm
    It isn`t saying different things. The fact is, Dante was a Christian. He wanted to write a story about what he imagines hell would be like. It`s a great concept- a great story- but not what we teach in church... most churches anyway... for all I know though, Dante could have very well had a vision... I don`t know though... I do know that that is not what the church teaches.
  340. Profile photo of Turnshroud
    Turnshroud Female 18-29
    4230 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 1:49 pm
    *Looks around* Wait, so are all the creationists gone leaving only intelligent debatersd? That, I like.
  341. Profile photo of KoalaMeatPie
    KoalaMeatPie Male 18-29
    2582 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 1:49 pm
    Turnshroud ...

    I`m of Greek Descent, so I`m going to say yes.

    (I`m also a Direct Descendent of Isaac De Abravanel, who in turn is Direct Descendent of the infamous King David

    ...

    Jesus is my Uncle. )

  342. Profile photo of Mrjimmycm
    Mrjimmycm Male 18-29
    108 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 1:50 pm
    What I was saying, Rebelcox, is that Hades and Scheol are used to describe the same place. That is why I used it as I did. I know all about it.
  343. Profile photo of RPossum
    RPossum Male 30-39
    1059 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 1:53 pm
    Get the paddles, the debate is dying! Someone rush some Christians in here before we lose the thread completely! Or at least some thiests!!
  344. Profile photo of REBELComx
    REBELComx Male 18-29
    477 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 1:54 pm
    Yes Jimmy they are used to describe the same place...but incorrectly. Hades conjures up an underworld of fire and torture and has become synonymous with the modern idea of Hell. A place like this does not exist in Hebrew lore. Sheol is simply a place of death, darkness, and an absense of god`s warmth. The modern image of hell was painted by the Catholic church. Such a place does not exist in any other culture or religion known to have existed.
  345. Profile photo of Turnshroud
    Turnshroud Female 18-29
    4230 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 1:55 pm
    I hope you are being sarcastic Koala
  346. Profile photo of primetimekin
    primetimekin Male 18-29
    7936 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 1:55 pm
    "Do Christians reject mistletoe, seeing as it is originally from Pagan rituals? Do you think no atheists ever say `Bless you` when someone sneezes?"
    Catbarf: Achoo
    Me: When you die nothing happens.

    And yeah they took a literal account of the bible. I am not for evolution but I cannot accept what they are saying, it was not 6 24 hour days. And they did the math wrong. 7 generations thing, they assumed once one generation died is when another began. They didnt take into account they occured with a few years difference


  347. Profile photo of KoalaMeatPie
    KoalaMeatPie Male 18-29
    2582 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 1:56 pm
    Turnshroud: but then how would I know of Isaac?

    Well, the Church was founded, no debate there...

    Anyways, I don`t consider myself special, But I do like the humour in saying "Jesus is my Uncle"

  348. Profile photo of Mrjimmycm
    Mrjimmycm Male 18-29
    108 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 1:56 pm
    Of course- However- it was understood by the jews- the pharisees- not the sadusees (sorry for the spelling) that hell was a place of torment. the sadusees did not believe in an afterlife at all. I know all about this. You don`t have to argue with me.
  349. Profile photo of Turnshroud
    Turnshroud Female 18-29
    4230 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 1:56 pm
    Isacc became Isaaq and and...I;m an idiot. But the point is it is all one religion but we argue on the book
  350. Profile photo of Turnshroud
    Turnshroud Female 18-29
    4230 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 1:57 pm
    Doen`t that mean James existed and that he in turn iis your Great etc gtranda?
  351. Profile photo of primetimekin
    primetimekin Male 18-29
    7936 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 1:58 pm
    layer by the fossil and fossil by the layer. That was funny
  352. Profile photo of Mrjimmycm
    Mrjimmycm Male 18-29
    108 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 1:58 pm
    It could be jude or John too... who knows how many brothers Jesus had.
  353. Profile photo of Gunit1
    Gunit1 Female 13-17
    851 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 1:58 pm
    At my school, we can`t have Halloween, but we had easter and christmas.... So basically, I said that was crap and refused to do stuff just to make their job tuff. So basically i was sent to the office for causeing trouble and told my (bitch) of a princple what i thought and that it was CRAP that we cant celebrate ALL holidays not just some and not others and I am CHRISTIAN! I hate it tho... And basically, now whenever someone says that I`m a pagan. I thank them and say yes i am! Then smilr to piss em off. :-) But now... We still dont get all the holidays due to the fact that "it wouldn`t b fair to others" well, then i told my principle that she was a hypocrite. And she was PISSED and i got detention....
  354. Profile photo of Turnshroud
    Turnshroud Female 18-29
    4230 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 2:02 pm
    Histou Channel rules.

    Have you read the Lasdt Templar> Gah at the end I just wanted to jumop in the book and save the text.

    I was like, NOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THEY CAN SAVE US!

    But it`s not impossible.

    I like being Iranianian. I can say we got our asses kicked by the greatest warlords ever and SURVIVERD

  355. Profile photo of ProSlacker
    ProSlacker Male 18-29
    92 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 2:02 pm
    Finally there is a group of people I can relate too. Okay I`m going back into my Camaro with my wife beater shirt with a mustard stain.

    Why can`t we just believe in Evolution and in a God as a creator?

  356. Profile photo of Gunit1
    Gunit1 Female 13-17
    851 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 2:02 pm
    And since when does god exist? If god does exist why are there:
    Rapists
    Murderers
    drugs
    war
    weapons
    child molestors
    kid nappers
    extinction of animals
    poverty
    floods
    world debt
    hunger
    dehidration
    racism
    sexism
    Hate in general
    alcohaul
    homelessness.
    The list goes on and on..... Keep adding if u want! :-)
  357. Profile photo of duckinfuh
    duckinfuh Male 18-29
    891 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 2:03 pm
    it`s probably already been said, but i don`t feel like reading 14 pages of comments to see, so here it goes...

    creationism is not science. science is backed with evidence that is observational and testable. saying "it`s true because the bible says so" with no evidence to support it at all is pretty ignorant.

    i almost want to go to this church... er museum, and take the tour just so i can show everybody just how ignorant this guy is about science.

    "they date the fossil by the layer, and the layer by the fossil, and the fossil by the layer...that`s circular reasoning." sorry, but, no, they dont. you lose.

    and just for the curious - evolution proof, part 2

  358. Profile photo of Turnshroud
    Turnshroud Female 18-29
    4230 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 2:05 pm
    It`s ok if it`;s already aid, no ones gonna beat the poo outta you.

    Hey, remember the guy who sued God?

    Damn, we need the creationists back on here!

  359. Profile photo of Dante135
    Dante135 Male 13-17
    2 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 2:05 pm
    they`re blatantly brainwashing those kids...how the hell are people so stupid?!
  360. Profile photo of Mrjimmycm
    Mrjimmycm Male 18-29
    108 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 2:05 pm
    ProSlacker- Because if you throw out certain parts of the Bible- you may as well throw the rest out. Seeing as Jesus himself taught about Adam and Eve, as he is the son of God, it makes it hard to believe in both evolution and Creationism. So if you get rid of the story of creation, then you need to ignore those things that Jesus taught of Adam and Eve--- and if you have to throw those out then you may as well admit that Christ was full of poo and deny christianity.
  361. Profile photo of Turnshroud
    Turnshroud Female 18-29
    4230 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 2:06 pm
    Maybe we can have poeople play the role of an intelligent creationist.

    I know, it`s btrainwashing

  362. Profile photo of Mrjimmycm
    Mrjimmycm Male 18-29
    108 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 2:08 pm
    It isn`t really brainwashing. It is teaching them what Christianity believes as truth. Just like the scientists would say what they believe as truth- either way you look at it... it is technically brainwashing.
  363. Profile photo of EstiloPanama
    EstiloPanama Female 18-29
    2074 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 2:09 pm
    J word? OMG...dude...are these Christians? I couldn`t finish watching this whole thing. I`m not a perfect `Christian` (don`t even belong to a religion, just believe in my heart), but this video is ridiculous

    I mean. Seriously. THE ::J:: word? WTH?????

    Like I said, I`m Christian, but I also believe in evolution. For me, God had everything to do with evolution. He knew what he was doing, he knows what he`s doing, and what he will do. He knows our hearts. Evolution happened because of him. The only thing that can not be explained is the existance of God. That is because he is the beginning and the end. There is just no science in that. But of course, life is science. God is the teacher of all teachers. The doctor of all doctors, and the scientists of all scientists.

    But it`s plain ignorant to think that the Earth is only a few hundred years old. These creationist people...I mean..WTH, man?

    WTH????????

  364. Profile photo of Turnshroud
    Turnshroud Female 18-29
    4230 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 2:10 pm
    They don`t even co nsider...

    Now if you don`t mind, I`m going to brew some tea. No seriously...BTW Starbucks hazelnut coffee is better than Dunkin Donuts hazelnut coffee

    I`ll be backk...with weapons. Hehe

  365. Profile photo of Mrjimmycm
    Mrjimmycm Male 18-29
    108 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 2:11 pm
    Estilo- No one said it was a few hundred years old. They said like 6-10 thousand. I don`t believe that... people lived a long time back then... I think maybe 100000 years may be more like it.
  366. Profile photo of KoalaMeatPie
    KoalaMeatPie Male 18-29
    2582 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 2:11 pm
    Mrjimmycm:

    It`s brainwashing.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brainwashin...

    It`s what they`re doing here.

    Wiki article not taken for myself, but to back myself up.

  367. Profile photo of Mrjimmycm
    Mrjimmycm Male 18-29
    108 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 2:12 pm
    As I`ve said- it goes either way. No matter how you look at it, it`s brainwashing.
  368. Profile photo of Turnshroud
    Turnshroud Female 18-29
    4230 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 2:13 pm
    Thank you KMP. TEN POINTS! Ok, fine, no point scoring, but still. In a debate yopu vcan have it.

    But there are line 46545674574578457847847865756 debates at once here.

  369. Profile photo of REBELComx
    REBELComx Male 18-29
    477 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 2:14 pm
    Wait, Jimmy...if you throw out one part of the bible, you have to throw the whole part out? Doesn`t that fall into the point people were making earlier about Killing unbeleivers and stoning misbehaving children? Or eating shellfish or Pork for that matter. How about killing homosexuals and being allowed to have slaves as long as they are from a different country? We don`t follow any of that anymore, for the most part (except in iran where they execute gays). So haven`t we called part of the bible into question and should then throw the rest out?
  370. Profile photo of Mrjimmycm
    Mrjimmycm Male 18-29
    108 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 2:16 pm
    RebelComx- No- That part of the bible is history and is not thrown out. We just live by a new law now.
  371. Profile photo of Turnshroud
    Turnshroud Female 18-29
    4230 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 2:16 pm
    The way I look at thwe pork thing...I think it`s ment to say, you want to be pure so eat pure.

    Because when you call someone a pig hound or b word...

  372. Profile photo of Turnshroud
    Turnshroud Female 18-29
    4230 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 2:17 pm
    apparently we don`t kill gays. I dunno. I dunno the truth of it. We have beer though.
  373. Profile photo of KoalaMeatPie
    KoalaMeatPie Male 18-29
    2582 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 2:19 pm
    Luke 12:10,
    and
    Mark 3:29:

    Whosoever blasphemes against the holly spirit can never have forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin.


    IF you`ve thrown out part of the Bible, that would be doupt and blaspheme, you can`t be forgiven - EVER and you`re going to hell.

  374. Profile photo of Mrjimmycm
    Mrjimmycm Male 18-29
    108 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 2:21 pm
    Blaspemeing the holy spirit is total denial. A total apostacy. You can always go back... but if you never go back then you can never be forgiven. That is what blaspheming the Holy Spirit is.
  375. Profile photo of KoalaMeatPie
    KoalaMeatPie Male 18-29
    2582 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 2:21 pm
    Turnshroud .. aaaactually, you do:

    Leviticus 18:22:
    "If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have commited a detestable sin, they must be put to death."

  376. Profile photo of Mrjimmycm
    Mrjimmycm Male 18-29
    108 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 2:22 pm
    Koala- Under he levitical law- which we don`t need to live by anymore.
  377. Profile photo of Turnshroud
    Turnshroud Female 18-29
    4230 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 2:23 pm
    Ok, and now we are just agreeing on a statement. There is no debate to debate. Unless…anyone want to come up to the podium and make a good argument?

    Ok, aparently we are not

  378. Profile photo of REBELComx
    REBELComx Male 18-29
    477 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 2:25 pm
    Um. Jesus - "I come not to abolish the law and prophets, but to complete."
    At no point does Jesus say that the old rules no longer matter. The first Jews that converted to Christianity were still expected to follow Jewish tradition. Just as jews today would IF the person THEY beleived to be the messiah were to show up.
    Christians, however, are mostly of European decent now - Gentiles. Gentiles who converted to christianity were expected to follow their own culture`s moral codes AND seek salvation through christ.
    Your point is still Valid. It is part of the Bible, If you take exception to one part of the bible, you must call into question the whole thing. If God told moses that you can`t eat Pork, then it is God`s will. To discard it as outdated would mean you have to discard Adam and Eve as a myth as well.
  379. Profile photo of KoalaMeatPie
    KoalaMeatPie Male 18-29
    2582 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 2:27 pm
    Mrjimmycm: Nope, not exactly, it doesn`t work that way. People say it works that way so it`s ok to interpret the Bible and not take it at face value.

    It never says Total Denial.

    Taken from Wikipedia:
    In a broader sense, blasphemy is irreverence toward something considered sacred or inviolable

    From Dictionary.com:
    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/b...

    Irreverence:
    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/i...

    Nowhere does it ever say Blasphemy is total denial. It can just be Doupt or denial in certain aspects.

    Irreverence:

  380. Profile photo of Mrjimmycm
    Mrjimmycm Male 18-29
    108 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 2:28 pm
    He completed it. We are no longer slaves to the Law. Paul explains this further. So did Peter- a follower of Jesus. Being that I am very much a gentile, I can break the jewish laws. Paul said that if we follow one of the levitical laws- expecting that we reach salvation through that, then we must follow the whole because then Jesus` death would mean nothing to that person. He would have died in vain. So- It`s history. We don`t throw it out.
  381. Profile photo of REBELComx
    REBELComx Male 18-29
    477 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 2:29 pm
    Turnshroud, at this very moment there are two gay men from Iran seeking asylum in England because if they were go to back, they would be persecuted and executed by the iranian government for being Gay. Last year, at least three teenage boys were HUNG for having concensual sex with other men.
  382. Profile photo of KoalaMeatPie
    KoalaMeatPie Male 18-29
    2582 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 2:29 pm
    OHHH Ho ho ho -
    This is going to be good:

    Mrjimmycm said: "Koala- Under he levitical law- which we don`t need to live by anymore."

    GEEE - Good thing we have science to understand the world around us now!

  383. Profile photo of Turnshroud
    Turnshroud Female 18-29
    4230 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 2:29 pm
    Hey, we’re still different even if it’s true.

    Maz Jobrani rules BTW.

    I like the Iranian-heroine Arab-Covaine joke

  384. Profile photo of KoalaMeatPie
    KoalaMeatPie Male 18-29
    2582 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 2:30 pm
    Turnshroud - I like you, but I`m an ass :-/
  385. Profile photo of Dragonlord
    Dragonlord Male 18-29
    734 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 2:30 pm
    I`m a little unsure as to what to think. On one hand, this video is very biased toward science and evolution. On the other hand, it`s basically impossible to back creationism via any logical argument, and therefore impossible to be unbiased when thinking logically.
  386. Profile photo of Mrjimmycm
    Mrjimmycm Male 18-29
    108 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 2:30 pm
    Yes- its irreverence- But in this sense- it is a total denial of the Holy Spirit. A total apostacy. That is what it is to blaspheme the Holy Spirit. It is an irreverence... but last time I checked- I have not shown an irreverence to the Holy Spirit. Most Christians don`t. But it is a total apostacy. Not just irreverence.
  387. Profile photo of catbarf
    catbarf Male 18-29
    1455 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 2:31 pm
    Gunit, the typical knee-jerk Christian response is `God gave us free will, and part of free will is the ability to do evil if we want`. Which is, of course, crap. I can very easily imagine people being able to choose from a number of equally *good* options, and I personally dislike the idea that people who are purely good are thus robots with no free will. Furthermore, by the same argument, God would be a mindless automaton since he is perfect in every way, and thus would have no free will.
  388. Profile photo of Turnshroud
    Turnshroud Female 18-29
    4230 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 2:32 pm
    Ok, what else can we debate that;s about religion?

    I thiink I`m burned out. Maybe Moses and the Red sea, but...

  389. Profile photo of Mrjimmycm
    Mrjimmycm Male 18-29
    108 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 2:33 pm
    I`m not following you, Koala...
  390. Profile photo of RPossum
    RPossum Male 30-39
    1059 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 2:35 pm
    For my post earlier regarding my stumbling block of where life came from, this was the basis of my response. Thought I`d come back and post it:

    http://www.socialtext.net/wired-mag/inde...

  391. Profile photo of REBELComx
    REBELComx Male 18-29
    477 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 2:35 pm
    Ok Jimmy. I`m glad to see you no longer whole Leviticus Code as Valid. I actualy make a point of that in arguments myself. I`m testing you though on how you deal with the contradiction. Since we`ve mentioned the gays, and the leviticus code says that men lying with men is abomination and that their blood is upon their heads....Do you think it is still right to condemn homosexuality, even though leviticus code is no longer valid as per your words?
  392. Profile photo of KoalaMeatPie
    KoalaMeatPie Male 18-29
    2582 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 2:36 pm
    Turnshroud:
    A well known type o, it`s not Red sea, but Reed Sea, which are marshes not to far from where the action happened.
  393. Profile photo of KoalaMeatPie
    KoalaMeatPie Male 18-29
    2582 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 2:37 pm
    Mrjimmycm,
    Where does it say it "has" to be Total Denial for it to be unforgiven?

    A lot more - if not all - evidence points towards it being just denial of certain parts.

  394. Profile photo of Turnshroud
    Turnshroud Female 18-29
    4230 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 2:38 pm
    Really? ALl this time...I`m gonna research it

    I seriously want to try making my own religion as an experiment based on the Seven in George R Martins Song of Ice and Fire Basically, Martin is an ‘Unknowing prophet’ and God gave him images. I’ll find the passage I made up, it’s kind nice.

    I even made a zetaboard forum

  395. Profile photo of Turnshroud
    Turnshroud Female 18-29
    4230 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 2:40 pm
    rossing the sea of reeds, son of a gun.
  396. Profile photo of KoalaMeatPie
    KoalaMeatPie Male 18-29
    2582 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 2:40 pm
    Turnshroud:

    "The best way to get rich is to start your own religion"
    - L. Ron Hubbard

  397. Profile photo of Mrjimmycm
    Mrjimmycm Male 18-29
    108 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 2:40 pm
    RebelComx- It says in the New Testament that homosexuality is still an abomination to God. So I believe it is. However- Paul says in Romans that the ones who condemn those who do wrong are condemning themselves because they do wrong too. He also says that we are not to judge those outside the church- but those inside the church, we may to hold them accountable. Therefore- I never tell a gay man or woman that he or she is wrong- and if they claim to be Christians, I simply let them know that that is not a Christian behavior... just like premarital sex or getting drunk- which in the past- I have been guilty of both.
  398. Profile photo of REBELComx
    REBELComx Male 18-29
    477 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 2:40 pm
    Whoa...Koala, did you see that History Channel show about the Exodus too? how the volcanic eruption in greece caused the egyptian plagues?
  399. Profile photo of Mrjimmycm
    Mrjimmycm Male 18-29
    108 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 2:42 pm
    Koala- it is simply a matter of inductive and deductive study of the Bible- you look at what it says and judge from that. Paul himself said that he has been guilty of the unpardonable sin- yet he stays fairly confident that he is going to heaven. It isn`t disclaiming God out of ignorance. There is more to it than that.
  400. Profile photo of Turnshroud
    Turnshroud Female 18-29
    4230 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 2:42 pm
    http://www.towerofthehand.com/blog/2008/... It has the info on how I got the idea.

    Would you do it? IOt`s better than scientology

  401. Profile photo of Turnshroud
    Turnshroud Female 18-29
    4230 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 2:43 pm
    Just find/replace turnshroud
  402. Profile photo of Mrjimmycm
    Mrjimmycm Male 18-29
    108 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 2:43 pm
    I saw it
  403. Profile photo of Turnshroud
    Turnshroud Female 18-29
    4230 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 2:43 pm
    OOO, nevr saw that
  404. Profile photo of BikerTeen
    BikerTeen Male 13-17
    2113 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 2:46 pm
    I LOVE IT!!! i am glad they are going to let kids in there the earlier the better when it comes to Christianity i just hope i hear more about it
  405. Profile photo of Mrjimmycm
    Mrjimmycm Male 18-29
    108 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 2:46 pm
    Good News- I`ve become a four star member of IAB now!
  406. Profile photo of REBELComx
    REBELComx Male 18-29
    477 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 2:47 pm
    Jimmy. the new testamant speakers are telling STORIES about events that took place in the old testament, stories that supposedly occured before the exodus and using judgements based on previous moral codes. AND the new testament language is highly ambiguous due to mistranslation. There was no word for homosexuality in biblical times. There was a word, however, for effeminancy. There are plenty of straight, effeminate men. Homosexuality existed in other cultures and was actualy revered by many of them. Jesus himself did not say anything about homosexuals, only the people who wrote sermons to other churches later did - Jews who were imparting their previous moral code on the new religion. To say it is not Christian behavior is to forget that in the early catholic church, monks and priests were allowed to have relations with each other, since they could not marry. Only in the middle ages did the pope outlaw sodomy, claiming it causes earthquakes.
  407. Profile photo of Turnshroud
    Turnshroud Female 18-29
    4230 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 2:50 pm
    Hey, we`re both 4 stars.

    Hey Koala, your probablty not the type, but what if you announced to the Christians that you were his decendent? What woiuld happen?

  408. Profile photo of KoalaMeatPie
    KoalaMeatPie Male 18-29
    2582 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 2:52 pm
    REBELComx,
    Wasn`t it a flood in Etheopia, at the Nile`s mouth which washed Ehtopian red soil down stream into egypt, colourinng it red, choking the life out of water, fish, dying. Frog leaping out of the water.

    The locusts came (which, isn`t very extraordinary, they come every so often and are as bad as the biblical cloud, even today) No frogs to eat part or even a lot of them, majour ravaging of fields.

    Roting fish and crops next to the Nile is a breeding ground for amthrax.

    Then the Killing of the Son, basically killing of the Pharoh`s son, IT was at the reed sea, with armed Hebrews (Hebrews where are well trainned in combat..) And using the timeline, there is no way the Pharoh could have pursued them. When he was unearthed it was discovered he suffered from majour arthritis.

    Anyways, it would be his son that followed the Hebrews out, and they killed him. Documents confirm this.

  409. Profile photo of Mrjimmycm
    Mrjimmycm Male 18-29
    108 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 2:53 pm
    No- Paul wrote letters to the church. He didn`t tell any stories. I know that there was no word for homosexuality, however there was pedastry- which is almost the same thing. It didn`t simply say homosexuality is bad. It did say that a man laying with another man is detestible. It is ignorance to say that the Paul`s letters never said that it was immoral behavior. Here is the thing. We don`t have the original copies of his letters, but we have very old manuscripts- and the differences in the older manuscripts compared to the newer isn`t very significant- with an exception to the book of Mark. It wasn`t just a catholic decision. It was a biblical mandate.
  410. Profile photo of KoalaMeatPie
    KoalaMeatPie Male 18-29
    2582 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 2:53 pm
    Turnshroud - I`d be laughed at :-p
  411. Profile photo of Mrjimmycm
    Mrjimmycm Male 18-29
    108 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 2:54 pm
    I wouldn`t laugh at you, Koala. I think its interesting
  412. Profile photo of paulmvr
    paulmvr Male 18-29
    89 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 2:54 pm
    GOD GOD GOD GOD GOD..... Jesus f-ing Christ... I love taking the "lord`s" name in vain.

    Lucifer is king, praise Satan!

  413. Profile photo of Turnshroud
    Turnshroud Female 18-29
    4230 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 2:55 pm
    I know, just saying. No, they`d look at you and scorn you, THEN laugh.

    ok, but-don`t laugh. laugh and you will see the truth- do ou beleive in psi? *Gets ready*

  414. Profile photo of Turnshroud
    Turnshroud Female 18-29
    4230 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 2:58 pm
    Yep, I’d say it’s cool that you are the descendent of King David, Solomon and Jesus.

    And lets not forget the Jews believed in a TRUE house of God.

    Paul, that`s sopam but who cares. The creationist- the suoer christians would probably rip you apart

  415. Profile photo of KoalaMeatPie
    KoalaMeatPie Male 18-29
    2582 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 2:59 pm
    Psi?
    PsiPog?
    PsiPog.net?

    PsiPog Pisses me off as much as it makes me laugh, they think they all have mental abilities.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMzdLTWDQ...

  416. Profile photo of Mrjimmycm
    Mrjimmycm Male 18-29
    108 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 2:59 pm
    Oh- RebelComx- I forgot to mention- I know that Jesus didn`t say anything condemning homosexuality. However- since it was said by Paul who was writing under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit- it is safe to say that his words are just as good as Christ`s himself.
  417. Profile photo of Turnshroud
    Turnshroud Female 18-29
    4230 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 3:01 pm
    It`s not a `ability`. We always had it. IT`s basically- how should I saw it, we tought ourselves not to beleive in a way. I don`t really care if you beleive or not. Want me to direct you to a site so we can debate?
  418. Profile photo of REBELComx
    REBELComx Male 18-29
    477 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 3:01 pm
    So we don`t have the originals, but a possibly flawed copy, written years later, which doesn`t actualy say anything about homosexuality as it exists today is why you condemn gays. And for the record, Pedastry is only one type of homosexuality as it existed in some cultures and is NOT what anyone in the bible talks about. The hebrew word used or the greek word used is always the word for Effeminate. The vast majority of homosexuals are not effeminate.
    All of the bible is a catholic decision. It was written by men, edited by men, compiled by men in an effort to unite and control other men.
  419. Profile photo of Turnshroud
    Turnshroud Female 18-29
    4230 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 3:01 pm
    Thing is, if a post it, 500 jackasses are gonna spam it. Even though you may not
  420. Profile photo of Turnshroud
    Turnshroud Female 18-29
    4230 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 3:02 pm
    Hell, I`ll post it anyays, even though some of the phylosphy isn`t too great

    http://houseofancients.com/forums/index....

  421. Profile photo of Mrjimmycm
    Mrjimmycm Male 18-29
    108 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 3:08 pm
    Woah! No... RebelComx- I told you... I DON`T condemn gays- I don`t condemn anybody. That isn`t my job. And I think God protected the text. It is likely that it could be flawed- but I tend to doubt it. Why? It`s a matter of faith and knowledge of how the Bible was put together. Pedastry actualy was talked about by Paul in Romans... and Effeminate too. And of course the bible was written by men and not edited- but put together by men in not only an effort to unite- not control men. It was put together so that we can know who God is. That is the whole reason behind it. Catholic means Universal. there is a huge difference in the catholic church and the Roman catholic church. The roman catholic church was the one that wouldn`t let it`s followers read the bible and they said it said things that it never actually said- exactly why Luther started the reformation years and years later. I think we finally have it right- or close anyway.
  422. Profile photo of REBELComx
    REBELComx Male 18-29
    477 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 3:14 pm
    You just said that in the new testament is still says that it is an abomination, and because of that, you beleive it. How can you possibly say that you beleive it`s an abomination and sit here and say you do not condemn people for it? Simply by beleiving that, you have already passed judgement on people wether they are christian or not. I`m gay. You think it`s wrong - wether i`m a christian or not doesn`t enter into it. Just because you don`t say it directly, doesn`t mean you don`t still think it. And the bible says that thinking is doing. Therefore, simply thinking its wrong, you condemn me for it, wether you choose to say it or not. The christians were united into the catholic church so that they would be easier to control by the roman government. Up to that point, christians were fighting amongst themselves about who was right, much like they all do today.
  423. Profile photo of ProSlacker
    ProSlacker Male 18-29
    92 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 3:18 pm
    Can we stop bashing God and Christ? Like common, bash the stupid Christian extremists! I don`t think these guys should be teaching children. This is exactly like Terrorist extremists teaching kids that suicide bombings = 72 virgins in heaven. I think everyone is entitled to believing in what they want. But if you have the nerve to go around saying that another faith or belief is wrong. Then this is where I take offense. And I still think we can believe in God and still believe in Evolution. I do and I`ll stand by it `till I die.
  424. Profile photo of Lompocus
    Lompocus Male 13-17
    296 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 3:19 pm
    so, um, I figure I shouldn`t come in 10 pages after I left?

    What HAVE you guys been up to while I was gone? Still acting drating stupid?

  425. Profile photo of Lompocus
    Lompocus Male 13-17
    296 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 3:19 pm
    proslacker says is how it needs to be said!
  426. Profile photo of Mrjimmycm
    Mrjimmycm Male 18-29
    108 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 3:19 pm
    I can believe it... it doesn`t mean I am in a place to judge a person. That is God`s duty not mine. And I am not in the place to tell a person if they are going to heaven or hell. My belief- if it is an unrepented sin- the destination is hell. I don`t condemn the person there. I don`t even think about it when I talk to my gay friends. I think of who they are... not what they claim to be. To say that I am the one who condemns is ignorance and very unfair of you to say. Just because I think its wrong doesn`t mean I pass judgement. I don`t do that. Everybody sins, dude- I`m no exception.
  427. Profile photo of REBELComx
    REBELComx Male 18-29
    477 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 3:20 pm
    the bible was in no way put together so we can no who god is. Constantine wanted to unite the christians because they were practicly warring with each other. Constantine commissioned the bible, and it took a long time for everyone to agree on what should go into it. Whatever didn`t go into it was labled as blasphemy, even though some of the apocrypha were far more popular than some of the books actualy included. That the bible was commissioned by a man in an effort to unite and control a population is not a matter of faith, it`s documented historical FACT. They were forced to come to an agreement by the government...not because they all suddenly decided they should see eye to eye on something.
  428. Profile photo of Lompocus
    Lompocus Male 13-17
    296 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 3:21 pm
    Nevertheless, rebel, the commissioning of the single Bible allowed for more peace within Christianity to act as a cohesive entity.

    And you`re saying that`s a bad thing?

  429. Profile photo of REBELComx
    REBELComx Male 18-29
    477 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 3:23 pm
    You beleive its wrong - that IS a judgement. IF not, please tell me your definition of judgement and condemnations.
    You think their destination is Hell...a place invented by the catholic church and never mentioned by christ or moses. That is a judgement. Just because you don`t say it to their faces, doesn`t make it any less a condemnation.
  430. Profile photo of Lompocus
    Lompocus Male 13-17
    296 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 3:24 pm
    Nevertheless, rebel, the commissioning of the single Bible allowed for more peace within Christianity to act as a cohesive entity.

    And you`re saying that`s a bad thing?

  431. Profile photo of KoalaMeatPie
    KoalaMeatPie Male 18-29
    2582 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 3:24 pm
    Lompocus
    He never said it was bad, you`re missing the point.
  432. Profile photo of REBELComx
    REBELComx Male 18-29
    477 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 3:25 pm
    Peace within Christianity, yes Lompocus. It united the christians and instead they started to fight with the Pagans, causing more violence and bloodshed and caused a centure of civil rights issues favoring one group or the other in the roman empire, eventualy leading to its downfall and setting us back philosophicly, technologicaly, scientifficly nearly 1000 years... yeah i`d say it was a bad thing.
  433. Profile photo of Mrjimmycm
    Mrjimmycm Male 18-29
    108 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 3:25 pm
    It wasn`t labeled as blasphamy. Just uninspired works. And Constantine did not force everyone to become Christians. He just made it the official religion of Rome. I know about all this stuff dude. I know my church history, yet you speak to me like I am one of the ignorant Christians that doens`t know his own religion. I know it. I know it well. The things you say are no surprise to me. Atheists tend to have this idea that just because they don`t believe in God, they are smarter than everybody- as if they have had some sort of powerful enlightenment. Let me tell you something, RebelComx- I know this stuff- I am not your average uneducated Christian who is one simply because he is an american. I am a Christian because I know it`s truth- In fact thats my religion- TRUTH. Now... you stop condemning me.
  434. Profile photo of Lompocus
    Lompocus Male 13-17
    296 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 3:26 pm
    damn double post sry.

    How is it I believe it`s wrong to have a single, unified group of people? Our "Catholic and Apostolic Church"? I`d say that, even if you don`t think there is hell (there is mention of damnation in the bible, however), I`m pretty it is preferrable to NOT SHOOT SOMEONE IN THE FACE.

    Just curious, u Christian or catholic?

  435. Profile photo of Mrjimmycm
    Mrjimmycm Male 18-29
    108 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 3:27 pm
    Hell was spoken about by Jesus. We talked about that already.
  436. Profile photo of Lompocus
    Lompocus Male 13-17
    296 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 3:27 pm
    @ koala: This is what happens when I try to jump into the thread 7 pages later (lol!).

    Yes, the middle ages and christianity`s role in it sucked. I`ll add the rest of my idea after I refresh page.

  437. Profile photo of Lompocus
    Lompocus Male 13-17
    296 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 3:29 pm
    @ Rebel: And did anyone do a better job, technologically, in those 1000 years? IIRC a lot of europeans, whose entire history was heavily influenced by Christianity and the Holy Catholic Church, ended up settling around the world, creating multiple world-spanning empires, and creating the US.

    The problem wasn`t exclusive to my religion.

  438. Profile photo of Lompocus
    Lompocus Male 13-17
    296 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 3:30 pm
    EDIT BUTTON, MODS, EDIT BUTTON, WE NEED A FRIGGIN EDIT BUTTON!
  439. Profile photo of REBELComx
    REBELComx Male 18-29
    477 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 3:32 pm
    The fact that you think you know the truth is the exact reason you don`t know anything. The sheer arrogance of your religion and beleifs is quite apparent. While you may know a little bit, you clearly don`t know the whole story, or are twisting facts to suit your own beleifs, just like the people in the video. That`s not ignorance, it`s stupidity.
    I`m not a christian. I can condemn anyone i damn well please. I abhor your religious ego driven arrogance like nature abhors a vaccuum.
  440. Profile photo of Lompocus
    Lompocus Male 13-17
    296 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 3:34 pm
    Religion is based on faith, rebel. how am I being arrogant?

    You`re incredibly hypocritical, rebel.

  441. Profile photo of REBELComx
    REBELComx Male 18-29
    477 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 3:34 pm
    Lompocus, we are still discovering just how advanced the Romans really were. It took us nearly 1000 years to match their technology after they fell. That`s why we had a Renaissance - a rebirth of classical roman, greek and syrian thinking and influence.
  442. Profile photo of catbarf
    catbarf Male 18-29
    1455 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 3:36 pm
    1. The mods will not trawl through this crap.

    2. If you think that Rome falling and creating the US happened well within a thousand years of each other... Hoo boy, you`ve got some learning to do.

  443. Profile photo of Lompocus
    Lompocus Male 13-17
    296 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 3:36 pm
    And you hate Christianity for an even over 1000 years old, already forgiven for?
  444. Profile photo of Lompocus
    Lompocus Male 13-17
    296 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 3:36 pm
    @ catbarf: I think you missed a few things.
  445. Profile photo of catbarf
    catbarf Male 18-29
    1455 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 3:37 pm
    "Religion is based on faith, rebel. how am I being arrogant?"

    Because you think you know the truth. When you then go and say that it`s a matter of faith, you then add hypocrisy to your list of crowning achievements.

  446. Profile photo of Mrjimmycm
    Mrjimmycm Male 18-29
    108 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 3:37 pm
    I haven`t twisted anything. And I am not speaking arrogantly as I believe you are... as I believe not only a lot of Christians do, but a lot of atheists as well. Why is it that when a Christian says he knows truth, he is scorned. When a budhist says he knows truth, he is ignored, yet when an athiest says he knows truth, he praises himself? Arrogance. And of course you can condemn anybody... but it certainly doesn`t make anyone want to listen to you. Now.. This started out as a pleasent conversation- then you pretty much said that I said things I didn`t say and turned it all around. I was enjoying this until now. You may be Bipolar.
  447. Profile photo of Lompocus
    Lompocus Male 13-17
    296 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 3:40 pm
    @ cat: Faith = having faith in that something is true.

    So if that`s my reasoning for being arrogant, and I`m in the wrong for having faith in the Lord, then I figure every one of these 6.7 billion on Earth is in the wrong for having faith in anything at any time. If we followed your stupid line of thinking, cat, there`d be no advancement at all.

  448. Profile photo of ProSlacker
    ProSlacker Male 18-29
    92 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 3:41 pm
    If we didn`t have faith in our lives. And if we didn`t go on acting upon faith. Then we wouldn`t be as far as we are today. I love of inventions, scientific theory`s start with a man having FAITH and a hunch that something will work. Einstien didn`t just wake up and say, "E = MC motherdrating square".

    And I`m sorry rebel. You are posting a lot of sense. And you do have a lot of points but. "I can condemn anyone i damn well please. I abhor your religious ego driven arrogance like nature abhors a vaccuum." You can`t just go around judging people because they have different values then you. Not out of religious reason, but because if all of society did so. Then where would be now? No where.

  449. Profile photo of EstiloPanama
    EstiloPanama Female 18-29
    2074 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 3:42 pm
    This whole thing is very sad. No one is going to one-hundred percent agree with what another person said on here. No one is going to change anyone`s mind. In the end, we`ll find out. At that time, we`ll be like, "Yay, I was right!" or "Dang it, I totally messed up!" Or more like, "Wait, I`m confused."

    Either case, it`s something that is going to happen personally to each of us. For those that don`t believe in anything, maybe you`ll die and there will be nothing more. Just rot, rot, maggots, rot. OR there might be something there you didn`t know about. Vice versa. All this mumbo jumbo that has trailed 18 pages long isn`t going to matter in the end. Either you`ll:

    A. End up rotting, become one with the Earth
    B. Reincarnate
    C. Meet God
    D. Meet Satan
    E. Float around in a weird void wearing some strange white toga thing.

    Who the heck knows? None of us truly do. I choose to believe there is God and Jesus, and Heaven or Hell. It`s a strange conc

  450. Profile photo of REBELComx
    REBELComx Male 18-29
    477 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 3:42 pm
    I have not praised myself. I have simply condemned your eagerness to claim you have the only one true way. There is no such thing. This is why the Romans didn`t like the Christians. They thought they were right, everyone else was wrong, and therefore a threat. You still have this attitude. Romans on the other hand were syncretic, and adopted other cultures ideas and beleifs to expand their own. That`s why the romans didn`t persecute the gauls or the norse for their religion. They saw their gods as analogues of their own. Christians though, stormed in, claimed they had the only answers, no one could tell them any differently, refused to listen to any other point of view, and were adamant about forcing their logic down other throats. That is what i am condemning. Your eagerness to claim you are the only one who is right. that is arrogance.
  451. Profile photo of matsuri_aka
    matsuri_aka Female 18-29
    252 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 3:44 pm
    Ah well. Well...well....hmm. Where to start? When I first fully understood evolution in high school, it was very satisfying. I find it hard to digest that people actually think the world is only 6000 years old, and that people used to live for 800 years. Who`s spewing fairytales? It should be against the law to lie to and warp the minds of children like that.
  452. Profile photo of Pooptart19
    Pooptart19 Male 18-29
    2442 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 3:44 pm
    Creationists make me feel ashamed to be American sometimes. Get this people: Many of the United States` founders were NOT CHRISTIAN. George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Ben Franklin, John Adams, etc. were Deists. They believed in science, logic, and reasoning. They believed in a non-intervening god.

    Yes it is sad that about half of Americans believe the creation story to be actually true. This is why we need to stamp out these morons. Not killing them or beating them. That would be crazy. Argue with them. When you present your mountatins of evidence for evolution, they just MIGHT think about. But unfortunately most Americans are far too ignorant and have been brainwashed by these fundamentalist dumb@sse$. I have a fundy friend who ALWAYS tries to get me to go to church and ALWAYS tries to explain how his fairy tale is true. Trying to explain evolution & a 4.5 billion year old earth is difficult. Why think for yourself when you have FAITH? Faith is moronic.

  453. Profile photo of ProSlacker
    ProSlacker Male 18-29
    92 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 3:47 pm
    If we didn`t have faith in our lives. And if we didn`t go on acting upon faith. Then we wouldn`t be as far as we are today. I love of inventions, scientific theory`s start with a man having FAITH and a hunch that something will work. Einstien didn`t just wake up and say, "E = MC motherdrating square".

    And I`m sorry rebel. You are posting a lot of sense. And you do have a lot of points but. "I can condemn anyone i damn well please. I abhor your religious ego driven arrogance like nature abhors a vaccuum." You can`t just go around judging people because they have different values then you. Not out of religious reason, but because if all of society did so. Then where would be now? No where.

  454. Profile photo of Mrjimmycm
    Mrjimmycm Male 18-29
    108 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 3:47 pm
    Romans didn`t like the Christians because they refused to bow down to the statues of Caesar. Other than that, they didn`t care what a person believed- That is why the church endured such harsh persecution. I guess you aren`t as smart as you think... I don`t know. Maybe you are... just do a little more research. Have you tried unbiased research maybe? I doubt it.
  455. Profile photo of Lompocus
    Lompocus Male 13-17
    296 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 3:47 pm
    @ rebel: And now around 33% of the world believes in Christianity and HAS THE CHOICE not to, yet they continue to believe.

    Now, can you point out to me, rebel, a recent time when Christianity has come in and forced the world to believe?

  456. Profile photo of Mrjimmycm
    Mrjimmycm Male 18-29
    108 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 3:49 pm
    For the record- it isn`t arrogance to claim your religion is right and all others are wrong. That is called a religion. Most are actually like that.
  457. Profile photo of Lompocus
    Lompocus Male 13-17
    296 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 3:50 pm
    tart19: shush. 90% of teh US is Christian, around 2% of that believe the world was made 4 thousand years ago. It`s part of the whole idea that 25% of the world has to be stupid. You`re in that group, tart.

    You know...someone should get some university`s theology professor to start free, online, bi-weekly seminars or something! Advertise it like crazy!

  458. Profile photo of primetimekin
    primetimekin Male 18-29
    7936 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 3:50 pm
    "Lompocus, we are still discovering just how advanced the Romans really were. It took us nearly 1000 years to match their technology after they fell. That`s why we had a Renaissance - a rebirth of classical roman, greek and syrian thinking and influence."

    The Renaissance was nothing more than an increase in trade. Thats it.

    And jimmy I agree with most of what you say but I am not to sure about the condemn thing. If by condemn you mean assuring that they are going to hell, then yes it is wrong. But if you tell them that you believe it is wrong then no.

  459. Profile photo of ProSlacker
    ProSlacker Male 18-29
    92 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 3:51 pm
    Lompocus, sorry man but a lot of kids are forced to learn about Christianity and force to adopt it as a way of life. I can`t give you a percentage, but I generally see kids being forced to learn and adopted it.
  460. Profile photo of primetimekin
    primetimekin Male 18-29
    7936 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 3:52 pm
    "Ah well. Well...well....hmm. Where to start? When I first fully understood evolution in high school, it was very satisfying. I find it hard to digest that people actually think the world is only 6000 years old, and that people used to live for 800 years. Who`s spewing fairytales? It should be against the law to lie to and warp the minds of children like that."

    There are several facts supporting the 6000-10000 year earth, and carbon dating is flawed.
    The 800 year thing is completely misinterpreted. At that time they measured ages by moons. Some where still pretty high (I remember someone in the Bible who was 100) but it is possible

  461. Profile photo of Preeemo
    Preeemo Male 18-29
    69 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 3:54 pm
    Those guys really need to take a BioChem class.
  462. Profile photo of primetimekin
    primetimekin Male 18-29
    7936 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 3:54 pm
    "Creationists make me feel ashamed to be American sometimes. Get this people: Many of the United States` founders were NOT CHRISTIAN. George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Ben Franklin, John Adams, etc. were Deists. They believed in science, logic, and reasoning. They believed in a non-intervening god."

    They believed in Christ therefore they are Christian. Just Deist Christians

  463. Profile photo of REBELComx
    REBELComx Male 18-29
    477 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 3:55 pm
    Romans didn`t care what gods they worshipped, and didn`t really care if they bowed to ceasar. The fact that they didn`t bow to ceasar would have been anti-christian anyway, since Jesus said to give ceasar what is ceasar. Romans didn`t make the gauls or the norse or the celts bow down to statues of ceasar, why would they take acception to the Christians? The church endured persecution because they were trouble makers. Rioting in the streets, toppling roman deity statues and attacking pagans in their temples. The christians weren`t the victims of a crime. They were terrorists.
    Prime...nothing more than an increase in Trade? So all of the philosophical and artistic wonders to come out of that time were a result of better sales? READ A HISTORY BOOK.
  464. Profile photo of Mrjimmycm
    Mrjimmycm Male 18-29
    108 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 3:56 pm
    While Thomas Jefferson and Ben Franklin were deists, John Adams and George Washington were not. TJ and BF didn`t believe in miracles at all. TJ even wrote his own bible because since he believed God was impersonal, one would have to throw out Jesus. So he did.
  465. Profile photo of Lompocus
    Lompocus Male 13-17
    296 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 3:56 pm
    @proslacker: It sucks that that happens, but go to any Catholic HS or elementary school and you will never, ever see the kind of poo3 being taught in thsi video taught to children or teenagers.
  466. Profile photo of primetimekin
    primetimekin Male 18-29
    7936 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 3:57 pm
    An increase in trade that brought already existing ideas together and thus spawn an increase in learning, In the end it was just an increase in trade that caused it.
  467. Profile photo of REBELComx
    REBELComx Male 18-29
    477 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 3:57 pm
    Jimmy. just because most religions are like that, doesn`t mean it isn`t arrogance. it just means they are all arrogant.
  468. Profile photo of Mrjimmycm
    Mrjimmycm Male 18-29
    108 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 3:59 pm
    RebelComx- I do read history books. And the other religions were picked on just as much. The difference is, they all bowed to the statues of Caesar. Your logic is faulty too. You see... It was specifically a tax thing. Caesar wasn`t due worship by anybody! Holy cow... I`m ignoring everyhing you have to say now. You really are ignorant.
  469. Profile photo of Lompocus
    Lompocus Male 13-17
    296 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 4:00 pm
    @ rebel: yes they did. The church endured persecution BECAUSE THEY DID NOT WORSHIP THE EMPEROR.

    It`s a cult, originating from egypt, which made its way to Rome. It was summed up into this: worship the emperor and pay tithe to him or die.

    Christians willingly died for their faith. Thsi attracted attention from many other Romans and thus spread the faith around, until Constantine found it necessary to make it the official religion, which continued on into a very succesful and prosperous eastern roman empire until 1400 when it was assimilated into that one other empire (some middle eastern empire).

  470. Profile photo of REBELComx
    REBELComx Male 18-29
    477 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 4:01 pm
    Da vinci didn`t paint the mona lisa, draw designs for tanks, or create miniature helicopters because there was better trade in his Italy. Michealangely didn`t carve David or paint the sistine chapel ceiling because someone opened a new traderoute. None of the accomplishments by the great minds of the Renaissance can be attributed to better trade.
  471. Profile photo of Turnshroud
    Turnshroud Female 18-29
    4230 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 4:02 pm
    At last there was some peace, violence, but still the rest were gone-fled. But that’s when she heard the trumpeting and her heart sank. She could se the skies darkening and the sound of hooves. She dreaded this moment. She could see the face of Lompocus and the others on their black stallions, and red’s and browns.
    “They have come.”


  472. Profile photo of Lompocus
    Lompocus Male 13-17
    296 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 4:03 pm
    Rebel, either you`re borderline mentally ill or I don`t know what you are.

    Better trade = better education. More money into people`s pockets. More opportunities to do more things. More people available for doing things.

    Thus, da vinci, michelangelo, and the other minds of the renaissaince were byproducts of more productive economies.

  473. Profile photo of primetimekin
    primetimekin Male 18-29
    7936 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 4:04 pm
    "Da vinci didn`t paint the mona lisa, draw designs for tanks, or create miniature helicopters because there was better trade in his Italy. Michealangely didn`t carve David or paint the sistine chapel ceiling because someone opened a new traderoute. None of the accomplishments by the great minds of the Renaissance can be attributed to better trade."
    Wealthy merchants were able to make better roads. Ideas from all over the continent met in Italy and caused an interest in learning. Many artist were hired by wealthy merchants. Trade= Renaissance
  474. Profile photo of Toucan28
    Toucan28 Male 30-39
    12 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 4:05 pm
    OK, first off Im not a Christian, but I do believe in Intelligent Design as opposed to Evolution. Theres too much to life and microbiology that functions at a minute level perfectly and together within a single cell to have come about by chance and mutation. Im not saying natural selection doesn`t exist within closed species, it does. However the idea that every animal came from a direct desendant is daft. I know that it goes against what is taught now, but bear in mind that 90% of sciencetific `fact` from 100 years ago is now disproved, and Im sure alot of what is fact now will be disporoved in time. Im expecting a tirade of respones telling me how stupid I am, but its a subject I find interesting so I just thought Id share my views! Anyone agree/disagree?
  475. Profile photo of Cyberbob87
    Cyberbob87 Male 18-29
    49 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 4:05 pm
    "The Renaissance was nothing more than an increase in trade. Thats it."

    Just an increase in trade? Hardly, it was a change of ideas and ideals, huge leaps and bounds in art, music and the sciences, a total reformation of European culture.

    "There are several facts supporting the 6000-10000 year earth, and carbon dating is flawed."

    Do you have any evidence to support either of these ideas? Human history certainly predates the 10,000 year mark, and I`ve yet to hear any credible opinion on radiocarbon dating being inaccurate.

  476. Profile photo of Turnshroud
    Turnshroud Female 18-29
    4230 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 4:05 pm
    They were thinkers, it was a re-birth. That`s whgat it means
  477. Profile photo of REBELComx
    REBELComx Male 18-29
    477 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 4:05 pm
    That`s right, Jimmy. Ignore me. The truth is you actualy chose to ignore me long before this discussion even took place. You were already set in your FAITH, blinding you to any point of view other than your own. Just like the guys in this video ignore science and blindly beleive in the stories in a book written by men 2000 years ago.
  478. Profile photo of ProSlacker
    ProSlacker Male 18-29
    92 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 4:05 pm
    Lompocus, I did go to a catholic High School. I took Christianity, World Religion and Philosophy(in the views of Catholicism) in High School. I did learn a lot. They did teach Evolution to the bone. They never left anything out and taught me how an evolutionist would teach it to me. I know these schools won`t brain wash yo. But these extremist do. I feel bad for all who are in contact with these bloody extremist (Catholic, Jews, Muslims, or Atheists).
  479. Profile photo of Monsdurr
    Monsdurr Male 13-17
    741 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 4:06 pm
    Ugh. Religion is for primitives made by primitives. Look, we NEEDED it, but with science and our common sense WE DO NOT NEED THOSE STUPID SUPERSTITIONS ANYMORE.


  480. Profile photo of Turnshroud
    Turnshroud Female 18-29
    4230 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 4:08 pm
    Monsdur is RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!
  481. Profile photo of primetimekin
    primetimekin Male 18-29
    7936 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 4:08 pm
    ""The Renaissance was nothing more than an increase in trade. Thats it."
    Just an increase in trade? Hardly, it was a change of ideas and ideals, huge leaps and bounds in art, music and the sciences, a total reformation of European culture.

    "There are several facts supporting the 6000-10000 year earth, and carbon dating is flawed."

    Do you have any evidence to support either of these ideas? Human history certainly predates the 10,000 year mark, and I`ve yet to hear any credible opinion on radiocarbon dating being inaccurate."

    It wasn`t new ideas it was old ideas brought together and perfected. Painting in perspective was all because Massacio was able to travel and thus spread his ideas.

    Carbon Dating does have outside influences and were all assuming its a consistent pattern. And the decrease in poles along with the amount of sediment in the ocean floor would contradict that the earth is more than thousands of years old

  482. Profile photo of primetimekin
    primetimekin Male 18-29
    7936 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 4:09 pm
    "They were thinkers, it was a re-birth. That`s whgat it means"

    That was a term coined by someone who was overly in love with it. I believe it was Burke but im not sure

  483. Profile photo of Lompocus
    Lompocus Male 13-17
    296 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 4:10 pm
    Monsdurr, that`s the crappiest, most inaccurate graph I`ve ever seen.

    Considering this thread is almost over, I`ll bring up Kennedy. A Catholic. Very smart. Whole family was Catholic. Whole family was involved in politics. Whole family affected the world. The President Kennedy helped initiate American Space Travel.

    I doubt you`ll find an Atheist in the highest echelons of the military.

    I doubt you`ll find an Atheist in a life-death situation.

    I doubt you`ll find an Atheist knowing he is at the last 10 minutes of his life.

    Now let`s all invade that other Catholic VS Atheist thread further up the main page!

  484. Profile photo of primetimekin
    primetimekin Male 18-29
    7936 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 4:10 pm
    Monsdur, what do you call the big bang then? It is scientifically impossible but apparently scientist need it.
  485. Profile photo of Turnshroud
    Turnshroud Female 18-29
    4230 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 4:11 pm
    it`s a big bang THEORY
  486. Profile photo of Mrjimmycm
    Mrjimmycm Male 18-29
    108 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 4:11 pm
    Lompocus- chill out. The graph was a joke
  487. Profile photo of Monsdurr
    Monsdurr Male 13-17
    741 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 4:14 pm
    Trust me, if there were less religious people there would be less wars because Atheists value their lives much more than any person of religion.

    Lompocus
    I really doubt the graph is inaccurate. Even if it is, it would be close to the truth. Look at the majority of those who have faith.

  488. Profile photo of Lompocus
    Lompocus Male 13-17
    296 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 4:15 pm
    So what`s up, guys?
  489. Profile photo of azzerbdx
    azzerbdx Male 18-29
    24 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 4:15 pm
    It`s funny but i just went to Egypt which predates Jesus` time, so how the hell can Jesus be the creator? :S

    Not only this, but it also links in with how much the Bible copies from so many religions, not just the Pagans but also the Egyptions. There were a whole load of gods and mythologies which were pretty much converted from Ancient Egyption religion to Christianity.

    Even 300AD Christians were making a hash of things. If you look at the temples about 90% of the damage isn`t caused by age, it`s caused by Christians defacing things because they don`t comply with their religion.

  490. Profile photo of REBELComx
    REBELComx Male 18-29
    477 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 4:15 pm
    Prime, it was old ideas that had been LOST for 1000 years because of Rome`s fall. The dark ages were a stagnant period of little to no creativity or breakthrough. Renaissance - french for Rebirth. It is a rebirth of classical thought.
  491. Profile photo of primetimekin
    primetimekin Male 18-29
    7936 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 4:15 pm
    "Trust me, if there were less religious people there would be less wars because Atheists value their lives much more than any person of religion."
    Atheism is a religion. If there were only atheist there would be wars between atheist sects. SCIENCE DAMMIT!
  492. Profile photo of primetimekin
    primetimekin Male 18-29
    7936 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 4:16 pm
    Not all of the ideas were lost. There were several ideas made in the late middle ages. Trade allowed them to come together and prosper.
  493. Profile photo of Lompocus
    Lompocus Male 13-17
    296 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 4:17 pm
    blargh!!!
  494. Profile photo of REBELComx
    REBELComx Male 18-29
    477 posts
    March 27, 2008 at 4:18 pm
    Lompocus...Kennedy? You really wanna bring up Kennedy as a Catholic example? The guy who`s american empire was named after King Arhtur`s court and who spent most of his time not in the oval office shagging people he wasn`t married too? You really wanna reffer to him as an exemplary example of Catholocism?
  495. Profile photo of AustinPrince