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I think that the point of Moore`s movies isn`t to present perfect facts, but rather to present ideas and ideals to members of the population who would not otherwise think much about world politics (the uneducated, the young, the people who just ignore such things). I don`t think he`s really trying to teach us, he`s just getting thinking so that we`ll seek more accurate info ourselves. And now look, people online are comparing and contrasting different countries and types of governments in a not all together immature way.
Who knows? I could be wrong. At least it`s a possitive take on things, right?
but we also have other priorities, we want good health instead of a large army..
and usa will never become like us, not because the population difrence, but simly because the avrange amarican is to selfish and greedy.
Just thought I would piss someone off with a Reagan quote.
The US does not have to become socialists to fix things like health care. Let doctors be doctors by limiting legal liability for any normal procedures that natural have a form of risk to them lowering insurance liability and stop trying to force them into HMO`s.
now to learn to speak the language.
Yes, he makes aggressive film-making, and yes, his documentaries are one-sided, but then again, so is everything in the media nowadays. - While you go on about how he makes things so `black & white`, take a look at aspects of the Bush administration`s global policy.
What Michael Moore is doing is pulling off the same propaganda tricks that you see on TV every day, but he`s telling the other side of the story.
And, quite frankly, good luck to him if he`s making millions! That`s the American way, right? Tell you what, let`s also berate Noam Chomsky for making money by writing those evil books, and give George Bush jr. a prize for his continuing nurturing of big businesses, liberating oil fields, ensuring that all those good US soldier boys have something to do in their spare time, and allowing all those nice people the chance to earn loads of money from your illnesses. What a guy!
6: You say "My research points to oil revenue actually making up over 60% of the necessary revenue to keep these programs rolling." In 2007 Norway used NOK 71 billion of a National budget of NOK 689 billion. That is 10,3%!
7: You say we have a 48% repat offense rate. Actually it`s 47,2%. But that`s If you include all the traffic-offences (like speeding or DUI). Look closer at the numbers, you will find that 13,9% repeats violent crimes, 6,7% in sexual crimes, and so on.
So the next time you try to find our flaws, do your homework better!
2: The muslims: No, No, and No!
3: And why do you think the target is the US? Maybe because of your wars and your military presence in the middle east?
4: Norway was built up before the oil...
5: What happens when the oil runs out: We still have the money! Ever heard about The Government Pension Fund - Global? It`s the largest pension fund in europe, and second largest in the world, around the same size as the California public-employees fund. By the end of 2009 it will reach NOK 3.044 trillion or US$563.7 billion. That`s as if every Norwegian had us$119,936 in their bank-account. We also have other businesses, you know!
So your arguments are a bit flawed.
Also, what personal choices do the norwegians have to sacrifice in order to live like this? That argument makes no sence, the people elect the government, so the people decide in the end.
But that`s beside the point. My point is that Norway has a much, MUCH smaller population and it isn`t just about tax revenue. The more people you have, the more government it takes to run the country -- so the real problem is the size of the American buracracy. Such a large government is not viable for the US right now because the system is so inefficient. Americans already complain that our education, military, law enforcement (etc.) systems are underfunded and inefficient. If we could ever have a system like this, our government needs to modernize (e.g. most of Europe is using fibre optics and the US is not).
Norway is a wonderful paradise, I do disagree with their prison system; giving a chainsaw murderer a job with chainsaws just doesn`t make sense to me. Where are their armed guards? Where is the appearance of a prison? Such a system couldn`t be run on the mainland <sarc> hmm I wonder why </sarc>
hi there, idiot, im from canada and we have an amazing health care system.
And thats the way it should be here, too, coren. Maybe then we wouldn`t have so many drating douche-bags walking around knowing that whatever they do they will basically get rewarded.
When you have people who would rather go to prison that live at home because PRISON is better than the street/home, there is a big problem.
I think thats what Varg Vikernes got...he`s not seving the longest sentence ever in Norway surely?
Golden age, built up on tax revenue on oil. So what happens when the oil runs out? Then what? No tax revenue = no money to sustain programs for people. Eventually your dark ages will come. Perhaps sooner than you think. Have you checked the latest statistics for oil reserves world wide. The earth is running out of oil and Norway is high on the list of depleted reserves. Dont worry you time is comming, and it wont be long.
As for all the benefits for high taxes. I refer back to my above statements. Income and sales taxes dont make up the whole pie for revenues for programs and benefits. My research points to oil revenue actually making up over 60% of the necessary revenue to keep these programs rolling. So what happens when you lose that 60%? Programs start going away or other taxes start going up. What do you think the masses will do then? Fewer and fewer benefits (or lack of quality of those programs) will result in unhappy citizens that will demand change.
And this is all considering that it`s against the law not to accept a patient for emergency care who cannot pay, so the myth about someone being denied at the ER entrance because they don`t have a check book is complete BS.
If you are pointing to the genital shaped part on the map of the European Union, it is Sweden that is the penis, and Finland the testicles. Norway isn`t in the European Union.
Norway`s educational system sucks.
I`m going to move to Norway. Right now. So long America, land of working 3 jobs so you can live in a cardboard box.
Hey, Snalin? Could you marry me too? I can cook!
To the Americans out there, pull yourselves together, tear down your society and rebuild it to something other than the “celebrate the ones that make it, crush the rest to the ground”-principle that you are so proud of building your nation around.
“Norway rewards killers by sending them to some spa?”Norway uses therapy to make killers understand that what they do is wrong. And the spa is only for the ones that have been declared mentally stable and willing to change by shrinks. It works. It heals them. It gives them back a worthy life and allows them to contribute to the community, instead of being parasites in prison. Everybody wins. I cannot remember any stories about anyone getting out after 21 years and then kill someone again.
“but look how vulnerable they are to terrorists”No terrorist attacks against Norway. Ever. Some delegates were attacked in Iraq, but that’s it.
“Anyone here tell me what follows golden ages?” Our golden age has lasted from the sixties, from before we had the oil. We build up a socialistic welfare-nation. And it worked. Tada!
“Sure-great health care system-paid for by the almost 50% tax rate! So, give us half your money every payday, and we`ll "give" you free health care.”And free school, pensions, a good piece of money to physicaly challenged people, protection of Norwegian farmers, and a hell of a lot of stuff to make you happy.
You see, there’s no f*cking chance that you would find someone with a full-time job here that’s poor, unless that person has some
Thats such crap. What about countries like Japan where there are hundreds of millions of people crammed together very tightly and yet the crime rate and standard of living are better than the `almighty` US?
Like I said, I lived in Denmark and when I had to move back to the US I was just...so upset. I hated it, and having lived somewhere else in the world that actually cares about their citizens made me realize just how much Americans are willingly ass-raped (without lube) on a daily basis.
I want to move back, but its almost impossible for me because some many are moving over to Scandinavia and abusing the welfare system (as someone else mentioned); they see its basically a utopia and move their lazy asses over there and drat up the process for people who want to go over there, work, pay taxes and actually CONTRIBUTE to society.
There. End rant.
more like Snoreway.
Holy drat, Moore thinks these are good ideas?
please remember that you are seeing a Michael Moore propaganda movie here. For one thing, Bastøy is a MINIMUM-security prison, reserved only for a select few who has shown good behaviour during most of their stay in normal prisons. We also DO have the opportunity to lock people up for life, although it is then not referred to as "prison", but as "protective care" (for the public, that is).
In addition, lots of what Moore said was technically true, but he did not mention the downside of living here, such as overcrowded retirement homes, public buildings (schools, town halls etc) practically falling down from disrepair, all the bureaucracy to get said benefits, etc.
Yes, life here is pretty good, but there are problems here, as in every country. Moore just chooses to gloss them over to present his own agenda.
Who has a sea ready to kill them if they don`t ensure the dikes become higher ? THE DUTCH !
Who has a growing percentage of people who tend to lean towards to extrme right wing politicall toughts ? THE DUTCH !
And which country has the most laws in Europe !? WOOOHOOO ! YHEA IT`s Holland baby ! Oh man why was I ever unhappy to live here ! :0
Face it people where to hot to handle ! The Netherlands is the way to go.
Anyone here tell me what follows golden ages?
Anyone want to take a guess as to what would happen if the Norwegian government had our population to serve (and I don`t mean just the numbers, I mean the individuals)
Michael Moore is pathetic. I can`t argue against this video, but I would be willing to bet a large sum of money that if I took the time to research (which I won`t) the country would be no where near the utopia he makes it out to be.
Half of this is based on the fact that I know the U.S. is no where near the hell he, and asses like him, make it out to be.
Sure, it looks good on a Video, but I don`t see Michael Moore moving there for some reason. Norway is now where the U.S. Was in the fifties, with a Predominantly White Population. By the time you twenty somethings watching this video are getting ready to retire your country *WILL BE* facing the exact same bull poo we are because in the Fifties, the rest of the world was reading the same bullpoo propaganda about how great the U.S. was.
you`re a moron
Well, we`re a bunch of vikings... What`d you expect?Nice vid... Made me feel good about being a norwegian viking. We also have the biggest annual LAN-party in the world and some of the worlds best gamers.(a little sidenote for all you geeks.)
Try it on a larger scale (i.e. the US) and a similar program would be doomed to failure.
^^ Look at the united states and it`s suicide levels? The #1 reason teen boys kill themselfs is because they`re gay and people won`t accept them. 1/3 of all gay and lesbians in collage attempt suicide. And there`s probably plenty more scary statistics.
Norway evidently spends the money on welfare, and luxury, while I`m guessing US spends a lot more on military than norway, so probably that`s why even though US may produce more money, but is not living the same standards.
Besides, if 2 countries produce the same amount of money, and one country has less population, obviously there`d be more money to spend for the people there, no?
As much as I like America, the education system and health system are no where near as good as they should be.
Thought this might be relevant to the video. This is the United Nations ranking of countries based on quality of life (list from 2007).
1.Iceland 2.Norway 3.Australia 4.Canada 5.Ireland 6.Sweden 7.Switzerland 8.Japan 9.Netherlands 10.France 11.Finland 12.United States 13.Spain 14.Denmark 15.Austria 16.United Kingdom 17.Belgium 18.Luxembourg 19.New Zealand 20.Italy 21.Hong Kong 22.Germany 23.Israel 24.Greece 25.Taiwan 26.Singapore 27.South Korea 28.Slovenia 29.Cyprus
...and think that people used to be wikings...
What does the number of citizens have to do with the quality of their government? If at all, I would expect that a system working for more people could be more efficient.
The "who will protect you in case of an invasion" argument is also turning in recent years. Who says it won`t be the US that`s going to invade again? ;)
I went to Norway for 2 days to visit a couple of friends, and they were living the life of luxury. And I couldn`t find any technically poor people anywhere (maybe I wasn`t looking hard enough).
Stuff is relatively expensive though...
Anyway, Norway looks amazing, but they have less than a tenth the population of Britain.
Imagine an entire national government spending it`s efforts (and the citizens taxes - ranging from a little under 30% up to almost 50%)only on the state of Alabama.
It is easy to point at small (population, not area) countries and go "Why can`t American be like that?" And the answer is we have way to many people to do something like this. And before someone starts to preach the reduce military spending sermon again think about this. If Norway was suddenly invaded, who would that ask for help? NATO. And who provides a large majority of the resources for NATO? The United States.
Face it, we pay the price of the military to keep things under control and this allows countries like Norway and Denmark and anywhere else you want to mention to focus more on health care.
"He worked in the forest with a chainsaw"
But cigarettes and alcohol is so expensive in norway! 20 dollars for a pack of cigarettes, and this shows that they are trying to prevent cancer and the same goes with alcohol diseases. i don`t know the price for alcohol, but you often see norwegians coming to denmark to buy alcohol. the danes just goes to germany... I think the average dane starts drinking at about the age og 14. i did, and all of my friends did aswell. looking back, i regret it. Alcohol is quite a big part of scandinavia, but also very very dangerous. it is not against the law to buy alcohol, only selling it to people under the age 16 is illegal. in theori, you can buy cigs and alcohol at the age of 0.
To Cashcleaner: Yeah, but I`ll take a country with alcoholism over a country with war, bad health, an obese, uneducated population, dying economy, etc. anyday.
Almost like how in Canada now the United states is now listed in a section of an official world travel brochure that lists countries where you have a possibility of being tortured. I almost wish I was kidding, but hell. We now live in a world where Barb Wire may just be the holy prophesy.
Our giant breasted blonde savior will come! Just you wait!!!!
I was about to say the same thing. I used to live in Denmark and its almost exactly like Norway in terms of their health standard.
But I couldn`t get over how annoying Michael Moore is.