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Are you attributing the above quote to me? Because I assure you I said no such thing (it was horn4231 on page 9 actually).
Please do not quote me on things I didn`t say. Nor would I ever say such inane horsewank as this statement anyway...
That`s precisely the point, is it? I don`t agree. I think that there are certain beliefs out there in the world that encourage no merit whatsoever, nor have any inherent, intrinsic value. Religion is a devious mechanism for causing one to commit immoral acts while feeling justified that they are indeed moral because some imperceptible deity, for which there exists no evidence, claimed they were. I don`t need to tolerate the beliefs of the mentally ill or criminally inclined. Explain to me why religious beliefs deserve some special recognition and treatment.
There are a few. Check this one out: http://scriptures.lds.org/en/isa/29/11-1...
Then read Joseph Smith`s History: http://scriptures.lds.org/en/js_h/1/63-6...
If you even care & want to know more let me know.
I simply ask you this: I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, better known as "Mormons". A majority of us Mormons try not to insult one another`s religion. Please don`t insult ours.
And for all of you who say, "The Mormons worship a guy named Mormon!" or "The Mormons worship Joseph Smith!" or "The Mormons worship the devil!" I`d like to ask WHO told you such things? Were they a member of the church? If you said yes, they are lying to you.
Before you TELL us what we believe, you might as well ASK us what what we believe.
If you still are going to berate and insult Mormons, fine, go ahead. If you don`t accept the facts, that`s your problem, not mine.
What people are missing about what Dawkins said is that there have been literally thousands of religions. So even if Dawkins is wrong and there is a god, then chances are that woman was wrong because it`s not the god she believes in.
I enjoyed watching an intelligent person speak about the importance of examining flaws in logic in regards to religion. However, it`s all irrelevant to me as it`s all one big lovely, man made book ( a very interesting book, but a book nonetheless).
nobody knows the answer
Scientists, athiests, agnostics, christians, jews, muslims, buddhist monks, whatever the hindu like to call themselves, confucianists(?), taoists, animists, shamans, sikhs asdkjfalksjf eh i`m not continuing...
nobody knows the drating answer and everyone is pissed at everyone else for thinking it`s something that they don`t believe in and miss the drating point altogether.
WE ARE HUMANS. YOU AND I, BROTHER AND SISTER. We need to care about each other and somehow make this poo work outside of the irrational AND COMPLETELY dratING SUBJECTIVE beliefs
and live together to make sure our children don`t grow up listening to the same arguments we`ve heard for generations
According to you, so far, on the "Going to Heaven" team we have: Chistians, 144000 Jews, and some people who lived before Jesus, but only as long as they followed the rules (sacrifices and stuff).
On the "Going to Hell" team we have: The other 13.1 million Jews worldwide (who decides on which 5% of Jews makes the cut BTW?), and the entire world population of Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, etc etc. Regardless of whether they have led their led good, moral lives. Let them burn, right?
Am I the only person here who sees how abhorrent this whole idea is?
Just because you believe in god does not mean god exists!
Think before you post a lie.
In the original film, `From a Frog to a Prince`, the `information content` question is put to me by a MAN. We see him in a bare room, very obviously not the well-furnished room in which I am shown (not) answering the question. The new version on YouTube is different in at least two respects. First, the question is put to me by a WOMAN (we don`t see her). And while she is speaking I am obviously not listening to anybody asking questions (I would be looking straight at the questioner if so) but I am clearly lost in thought, the same long train of thought that persists for a long time after the question ends (intended to look embarrassingly long, as if I am incapable of answering the question).
"A full account of the hoax is given by Barry Williams, in the (Australian) Skeptic. I don`t have the reference with me (I`m in Miami Airport, on my way to Galapagos) but it is given in the chapter of A Devil`s Chaplain, called The Information Challenge. Briefly, the long pause occurred when I tumbled to the fact that the film-makers were creationists, and I had been tricked into allowing them an interview. I was trying to decide how to handle the difficult diplomatic situation. Should I throw them out immediately? Should I answer the question? Should I stop the interview and discuss their dishonesty with them before deciding whether to allow the interview to continue? I eventually took the third option. It later turned out that they used the long pause to make it look as though I was unable to answer the question.
And yes, the Book of Mormon DOES testify of Christ, just as the Bible does. The Book of Mormon is not a book to replace The Bible, but to embrace and uphold it`s teachings.
On a lighter note, that`s a nice Mercedes-Benz GL that man was driving. Man must be making some serious money or getting into some serious debt.
I think he answered the question ("What if you`re wrong?") excellently, but that`s my personal opinion, and I respect yours.
OK Bubba and tayreed, who accuse Dawkins of dancing around the question. Here`s a question for you, (no dancing around the answer now!)
Are you guys seriously saying that the only people getting into heaven are Christians? So hell is going to be reserved for the Atheists, Agnostics, Pagans, Hindus, Muslims, Buddhists, Jews, people who have never heard of Jesus (unlucky for them), and presumably the entire population of the planet who (really unlucky for them, they had no chance!) died before Jesus was born?
Please elucidate for me (simple question) which of the above groups are getting into heaven and which are going to hell, so I can understand your viewpoint.
What`s your point caller? He answered the question. Sure, he had to think about it for a second to formulate his answer. So what?
Ya know what... if you don`t believe, and you turn your back to God, and deny him, what do you care if I think you`re going to hell. It doesn`t exsist to you anyway. Sadly (for you), just because you don`t believe in something, doesn`t mean it`s not true. (Wait, that`s been your arguement, hasn`t it?) <--- not directed at a specific person
I believe the term you trendy kids use is "pwnage".
Get off the ol` high horse there,
"I can say is that one day, you`ll turn your eyes to the one you always chose to ignore and try to ask for help, but by then, it will be far too late."
If I turn my eyes to heaven, and I regret the choices I have made, then I am repenting. If the bible is to be followed, then it is never too late. You can`t judge someone for their beliefs, or preach to them your own, without being hypocritical, or contradictory to your own beliefs, in general.
So thanks for your warning, oh high authority! But I think I`ll live my own life, be it religious or not.
"The $2.4 million study found that the strangers` prayers did not help patients` recovery."
"It is unsurprising and not a little ironic that patients in the study who were told unequivocally they were being prayed for did worse than those who were told only that they might be."http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/11/opinio...
There is zero scientific, objective, verifiable, validatable evidence of any gods - INCLUDING the Christian god. To believe in this positive claim, despite this blatant fact, is delusion.
Religions are not true. No religion on Earth has the exact truth. None. Mormons claim their religion is superior to all religions on Earth. Their claim is wrong. It is very, very wrong, and I can say this because I had front row tickets to this religious show for six years..and did not appreciate what I was experiencing.
And for those who do not believe in Christ, God, or the Bible...all I can say is that one day, you`ll turn your eyes to the one you always chose to ignore and try to ask for help, but by then, it will be far too late.It doesn`t sound like reality. It may seem to be in the realm of Disney tales...but it is indeed truth. Keep denying it, keep ignorning if you so desire, but please trust me, one day you will regret this choice.
No amputee has ever been healed through prayer.
Now we know that God does not discriminate, so it`s not that He hates cripples.
And the Bible does say, `Ask and ye shall receive`.
And yet, people tout prayer as the thing that saved their loved one from an illness (always an invisible illness, like a virus, so people only see it as a miracle), yet nobody has ever regenerated a limb.
Not necessarily true, you show a gross misunderstanding of how that experiment went.
It wasn`t so much that merely viewing the electrons changed their pathing, it was HOW you had to view them. You can`t view them without, say, a light source. What is light but photons. Photons are denser than electrons, and move at a much quicker rate. The photons then bombard the electrons causing them to only take the 2 open pathways.
I`m not ENTIRELY sure about all this but I believe that is how it works. I`m currently reading The Elegant Universe and that is more or less how it is explained in there.
gl on your mission defendors :]
I`m not sure if this has been discussed earlier, I`m not really wanting to read 8 pages of comments on it.
The black fellow was very cunning with his words and his whole goal was to make them look stupid. Good job dude, you succeeded.
Unfortunately he`s not as smart as he thinks he is. The "people" did reject Christ and his teachings. Yes, he had followers, but there were many who rejected his teachings. From my understanding it was the Jewish leaders who had Jesus taken to Rome to be tried under their law. Pilot wanted to free him, yet the Jews cried "Crucify Him!"
If theres anything we have learned from Quantum Physics it is that studying something can change the results.
Also the Christianity is all about faith. If you could prove that the Bible was true with science, then everyone on the planet would be a Christian, and it would defeat the purpose of faith.
Which is why it pisses me off to see so-called Christians get insulted when they`re told they have blind faith. No poo we do.
I think that if there is a god he`d prefer that I live honestly rather than go with the masses out of fear of being set on fire for eternity.
Kinda funny from a 3rd person view.
Having a lack of belief in god does not mean a lack of morals. If one believes that one will cease to exist when one dies(aside from the corpse part), then one would want to make one`s time alive better for themselves. Any normal person will grow up with the morals given to them by their environment, more or less. A smart person will realize that if they keep those morals and values then it will make their time in existence that much easier. To me, an afterlife would be encouragement to throw away my morals; I would have an infinite amount of time to be virtuous afterwards. However, having no afterlife would make me want to keep and apply those morals to make my life as good as possible.
Liars for Christ.
Sheeple. 21st century living in 1st century backwardness. The majority of humans don`t deserve to be called homo sapiens (i.e., wise humans).
Wow, you`re ignorant. First of all, agnostics are either atheist-agnostic or theist-agnostic. Agnosticism is not a position in and of itself. Second, it`s spelled ATHEIST not athiest. And it ONLY means absence of belief in a god or gods. If you`re in a monotheistic religion, you`re ATHEIST to all gods, but one. The general word for "atheist" is going one god further - dismissing all gods. Atheism does not imply ANYTHING about morals or lack of.
Mormons worshipping the pentagram, my arse (oooh, Mormons are Satanists because they have vaguely 5-sided shaped on the door of their church!).
Now that I think about it, the American 1-dollar bill has the Evil Eye of Satan printed on it, staring out from on top of a pyramid! (check it out if you don`t believe me). Obviously a sign of the Freemasons, agents of Satan! Therefore the american dollar is a SIGN of SATAN! Priory of Sion etc, wank wank wank...
Sorry, I lost interest and started playing with my willy for a second. Did I miss anything?
Listen, arguing about different facets of christianty is like arguing over whether Santa Claus wears red or green underwear. It`s all bollocks.
Religion. Sh*t it.
Read some Kant.I don`t think you understood my first post.
The act of completing this equation requires you to follow unchanging laws of logic, requires you to reason. Now, you are free to choose whatever answer you want, but unless you choose the *right* answer, you`re not reasoning, you`re just arbitrarily picking.
To reason we have to choose, but we are also compelled by reason to choose the right answer. As rational beings, we are free to act in whatever way we want, but our reason commands us to act in accordance with the laws of logic. So we have the law that I stated in the previous post. And we are all compelled by our reason to follow it.
when we don`t, we have guilt.
Morals stem from our rationality. Reason`s laws are absolute and immutable. Reason compels us as rational beings to act in accoradance with these laws. Morals come from our reason, and command us. Here`s a law that all people subconciously know to be true: that we should only act in such a way that we wish it could become a universal law. Our rationality commands us to follow this. If we lie to get ourselves out of trouble, we cannot wish this to be a universal law because the very act of everyone lying, negates the whole concept of truth/lying.
Now, we may be weak, and we may not always follow our rational side, but nevertheless we recognize it when we do this.
you have a lot to learn...
Um, that my friend, is a complete fallacy. A lot of people convert to different religions. A LOT of people. Just because you don`t see it or read about it in your daily activities doesn`t mean it doesn`t happen.
Did I ever accuse them of that??No. I asked why they have them incorporated into their architecture and Im actually looking for and answer and not an argument with this one. ;-)
Notice how it says "often"...
It doesnt need a circle around it to have satanic connotations...
Check out this site for a few.. Or google search it, the changes are Obvious..
http://www.irr.org/mit/changingscrips.ht...or this http://www.challengemin.org/8400.html
and heres the closeup of the window
I`ve never seen a mormon missionary get so blatantly told wrong by anybody else like that, in my entire life. And I find it hillarious after all the crap I got for leaving. I watched the video twice, and must say the black man knows his scriptures, and knows where his heart lies.
He actually has a grip on the notion, that you have to search for your entire life, to recieve your own answers on something like religion, but I think he`s found it. I hate mormonism with a passion.
what kind of changes? prove that there have been changes and that you are not basing this accusation off of some BS you read on wikipedia.
whites are not better than blacks. but in the Book of Mormon there is a short section that explains this. read that and come back when you feel like an ass.
they baptise people for the dead in every mormon temple. it is just a way for people who did not have the opportunity to join the church before they died (mainly member`s ancestors) to join the church in heaven. (but i don`t want to get into all that)
pentagrams? please..... stop being an ignorant retard and actually back up your accusation.
If I was holding a gun to your head why shouldn`t I shoot you? (according to your ethics)
Don`t be so ignorant. True, some atheists may be complete douchebags with no moral values, the same can be said of theists. Admitting that morals exist isn`t admitting the existence of a divine power. You don`t need God to have good, if you get what I`m saying.Morals don`t come from some heavenly being, they come from man. They`re the same thing as laws, just less strict. Man created morals as guidelines of how to get along with each other. They`re more customs than anything, really.
As for the Priests, the answer is simple- Hypocrites. Wolves in sheeps clothing. Giving in to Temptation. Becoming a christian doesnt mean your automatically perfect, it means your attempting to strive to God`s standards, and these people are failing at the moment.
Wow. You can`t give any credit to humanity when it comes to morals, huh? We all require some spaghetti monster in the sky to tell us not to be cruel to, steal from, or kill one another? What a load of programmed bull! One does not need religion to have ethics; they mostly only need basic human empathy, and common sense.
Atheists don`t have morals? If this is truly your position, and all it takes for a person to have morals is a belief in a higher power then how do you explain all the molestations by catholic priests over the last 20 years, or any of the thousands of other atrocities committed by other `righteously devout` people?
Religion serves many purposes; unfortunately those purposes are not always in the best interest of the people that follow them. Sure, most religions preach to be good to one another, but alienation, segregation, hate, and violence are also preached by most religions in one way or another.
Atheists are not any less ethical then anyone else. ;-(
Unpack that statement.Prove it. Right here and now. Ad if your a Mormon, please answer my questions on the previous page.
For one thing, that guy quoted just one scripture that was referenced properly and took it out of context. Why people think he was all-knowledgeable is beyond me.
Another is the fact that people are saying the Mormons didn`t know how to respind. That`s right, not because of lack of scripture knowledge but because that guy had amazing charisma but little valid to say.
That wasn`t a religious discussion, it was a one-sided lecture. He was trying to provoke anger in the mormons by not letting them get a word in and by making several consecutive comments, some outrageous claims, without letting them respond.
I can`t believe you people can`t see this.
And if you notice at the end, the more experienced missionary cut the conversation short because he knew he the guy was a waste of time and because they knew there was contention.
Watch it again and you`ll see what I mean.
by admitting that there are morals they are inferring that there is a God or something greater than us that has a standard that we should live up to.
Otherwise, where would morals come from???
Also the black guy went arrogant at the end and completely ruined his own argument.
Either way, lol religion...
"My toilet`s broken, I think it`s the Ball-Rooster""He can`t see straight, he`s rooster-eyed""What a Rooster-and-Bull story""My gun is roostered and ready to fire""I really roostered that up"And finally, in the words of Han Solo, "That`s great kid, now don`t get roostery!"
My general impression is that Mormons are caught up in religion and belief, rather than faith. The black guy called them on that too, "we all believe in the bible, we should be having a wonderful conversation" but then he went and started to be ignorant, and spoiled his point.
I disagree with most religions on principle, but I won`t disrespect someone with religious beliefs on purpose. I have my opinions, they are mine, they may be prejudiced or just wrong, but I don`t force them on people. When it the black guy made his point, and they had no reply, that was enough. Those guy were ignorant, ignorant to the fact that their religion is just a manifestation of human interpretation of divine intervention, and in itself imperfect because of that.
Again, only my opinion, don`t mean to rub anybody the wrong way.
on another note, i am quite enjoying the use of the word rooster. makes me chuckle.
This reminds me of the Douglas Adams book "Dirk Gently`s Holistic Detective Agency", where Adams introduces the character of the robotic Electric Monk, a labour-saving device that you buy `to do your believing for you`. The de luxe model is advertised as `Capable of believing things they wouldn`t believe in Salt Lake City`.
i don`t like arguments about religion - seems really odd, and the rooster went looking for an argument
i think guy won in the rooster competition, and the mormons won being a better example of their religion
To my eye it looked more like a man arguing with kids in an effort to convince himself of his own righteousness. And the Kids were striving to make their families proud by forwarding their religion without intimate conviction.
I don`t believe that Jesus would have wanted to see either of them argue in the name of the Same God. I would rather be in the Mountains thinking about God than in Church thinking about the Mountains.
seriously what about these things-
Why have there been over 2000 changes to the book of mormon since it`s berth. I don`t mean different translations, or versions, Im talking direct changes like taking the word not out of a sentence.
Why weren`t african americans allowed to be mormons until the 60`s. Are modern blacks better than older ones? Are whites better than blacks?? I dont think so...
Why do they baptize the dead at the main church in Salt Lake City?
Why are there pentegrams integrated into the architecture at the main church in Salt Lake City?
Myself being an agnostic, my stance on (most) religion is that it is good. Good in the sense that most of their teachings encourage individuals to contribute to human society in a positive manner. HOWEVER, when religions start to say they know HOW a human should live their life (Sexual preference, political preference, attitude towards other people of different age/ethnicity/whater) they not only are discredited in my view. They look downright drating ignorant.
Cheers ya`ll, nice video. They were asking all the wrong questions though!
I am a Mormon.Out in the Virginia, there are not many people of LDS faith and as such, I am usually the only Mormon in school. Since I am the only one I try my best to inform people of the religion if they have questions and I try to represent The Church Of Jesus Christ the best I can.
Sure online I may swear, and say things which may be crazy, but if you actually knew me, you would find that I am a humble, open minded person who respects other religions, even if people threaten to KILL ME over mine.
At least one of those is always true, at least one is true depending on which of the at least 9 definitions of "Moral" he`s using, and at least one is wrong if he means it inclusively.
Misinformed? He`s probably just not using your particular favourite form of the word.
Debates are based on claims and warrants - one side makes a claim and supplies a warrant to justify that claim. There wasn`t a chance for justification when the mormons weren`t given a chance to open their mouths.
combative != winner
Now that is all cleared up, i`ll move on. The mormons got their just desserts, thinking they can go to people who they think they are ignorant (look at their faces when they come up). But, that guy was wrong to, becuase he should have given them a chance to speak. A discussion or debate is not one person talking. Well, those are my thaughts.
Salam (a little hint to see what religion i am from).
wtf was that video?? lol. That was the most bizarre thing I have ever seen. I really love the scewed, spinned facts that they pulled from where? And, of course, Lucifer`s face was priceless.
The Christian guy should have been more humble, gentle, and welcoming to them, and the Mormons should have known their stuff better. Well, in truth all of them should have known their stuff better. But for the most part that video was awesome! Other than his lack of humility, the Christian guy made a very good argument. :)
first off, I am mormon, and I got a laugh out of that. I hate nothing worse than seeing unprepared kids who go on missions, and end up getting owned like this. But that is a big problem, the culture is so big on go on your mission the minute you turn 19 than most kids aren`t ready, they end up going and struggle the whole time. I wish they would tell them to wait until they feel ready.
Also, let`s not bash too much on the missionaries. They only mean well. Think about it, if someone is willing to spend $10,000 and 2 years of their life on something they really believe in, at least you can give them a little bit of respect. Even if you don`t want to hear what they have to say, just be polite. They just want to share with other people what is making them happy.
Yeah, these damn preachers, getting all up in peoples face going on about what they believe. Cos that never happens with anyone here.
Count in this thread of:Atheists/Agnostics preaching: 6, either gabbing about what their beliefs are or "Try Atheism Pal" in one case. Everyone else combined: 2, 3 if you want to count me ;).
in other words, lol- mormons
Revelations 22:18...------... is a reference to the book itself, and not the bible in its entirety. The fact that it is at the end of the Revelation (no "s" at the end, that`s just annoying) and that the Apocalypse of John falls at the end of the approved bible is mere coincidence (especially considering that several books of the bible are believed to be dated years past the Revelation). But what do I know? I`m Catholic. I eat death cookies and worship saints and all that.
I saw a documentary about the true origins of the Mormon religion. It said that Joseph Smith ate some kind of mushroom and saw a purple lizard that told him to start the Mormon religion. crazy sounding, right? anyways, people were murdered off sometime within the last 30 years in an effort to keep that fact a secret. Religion = A Product of man.
If you believe such theories that would mean that the entire Mormon religion is based off of a hallucinogenic experience... lol. personally, i think that most major religions are based off of similar experiences. The humans all seem to need a `being in the sky` to validate their existence. i say, just be a good person, and do what you can for your fellow man. Beyond that, it`s all pretty much relative to circumstance.
Mormons clearly aren`t very familiar with the Bible if they can ignore practically the last sentence in it.
Revelations 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: 19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
If I wanted just a string of videos I`d go to YouTube.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^Hey Baal....why don`t you try Google....and nobody`s ever going to take you seriously when you`re trying to give the camera "the eye".
What I don`t like about religion is the idea that I needed some other guy to tell me those things and that it`s all thanks to him. I figured those rules out a long time ago on my own. Plus too many people use religion as an excuse for their own agendas, e.g. jihad (the idea of a "holy" war is pretty ridiculous), the crusades (use "converting non-believers" as an excuse to seize land in other countries and execute people who don`t convert).
Regarding the video, that guy knows his stuff. He argued extremely well, and they looked pretty embarrassed. Good work.
"Do what you think is right, honest and true"Whatsoever things are right and forthright and true, these things do
"don`t do what is obviously morally wrong, hurtful or that which would make tougher someone else`s life"A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another as I have loved you… do to others as you would have them do to you.
Sounds like you know Jesus better than you think, man.
My `religion` is simple:
- Do what you think is right, honest and true - don`t do what is obviously morally wrong, hurtful or that which would make tougher someone else`s life
eg - stealing is wrong no matter what. White lies (Santa) - are fine - they harm no one and actually make people happier
A couple of Mormons approached me at a bus stop a few days ago, and gave me The Good News: They saved a bundle on their car insurance by switching to Geico!
By the way, saying "First," is pretty stupid.
The first person to complain about Christians, or insist that someones faith is above another, or the like is officially a homosexual.
I didn`t realize that "always bet on the black guy" worked for boxing AND religious debates!
If I wanted just a string of videos I`d go to YouTube.