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a guy called Jesus used to live near me, doesn`t prove much else though
they probably get out more and have fresher air
mate, i could write something today and it would fit in with the bible and make sense. that doesnt make it true
neurolru is right
pianowire, im impressed
ps. if anyone is going to pray for me i dont mind
just please dont pray to someone that killed the first born child of everyone in an entire nation... i dont want that persons attention pointed my way
Say horn-meister, couldja ask The Big Cheese to get rid of this eczema on my ankle?? Or maybe it`s psoriasis, I`m not sure, but it itches and it`s making me NUTS!!!! Many thanks!
Hey, if you`re gonna pray, may as well pray for something helpful.
Oh, I`ve totally stopped taking this discussion seriously.
"If religion were true, its followers would not try to bludgeon their young into an artificial conformity; but would merely insist on their unbending quest for truth."
Thank you for your compliments, NeurolRu. Maybe not marriage, but I`d definitely consider adding you to my buddy list. ; )
To those of you who were exposed to religion from a young age... I encourage you to explore. Children are highly impressionable and teaching a young person religion is tantamount to brainwashing. Imagine if you were raised Buddhist or Muslim or Pagan, or any religion other than your current one, from the time you could first comprehend language. I guarantee that is the religion you would believe now, and other religions would seem ludicrous to you. If upbringing is the primary reason for your beliefs, maybe it is time to look beyond what you`re comfortable with, because under other circumstances, things could be completely different.
You`re truly creepy.
excellent point. thank you.
"And I truly doubt that ANY of you are actually going to pray for an atheist. You have better things to do, trust me. You could be contributing to the community, helping out a friend, volunteering someplace, fighting for a cause to help the world"
I actually don`t have better things to do. And yes, I have already prayed for you individually, as well as many others from this site. I tend to believe that trying to help someone find the Lord is a much greater cause than "helping out a friend"
....still praying :)
Even if there r 66 books there are books called "fiction" meaning fake just cause you read it in a boook (or books in this case) doesnt mean it`s true Take harry Potter for example you r going to have one hell of a time convincing HArry Potter is real and he can do everthing he does in those books
Different men wrote the bible over thousands of years. Yet they all seem to come together and make sense. Shouldn`t that tell you something.
Maybe if everyone read my post, this wouldn`t be going on still...Oh, you lazy I-A-Bers. You dig your own graves.
Ohhh, and PLEASE stop saying that you`re "praying for me". Do you realize that you`re basically insulting an atheist when you say that? You`re insulting their lack-of-faith by trying to tell them that you can use the magical powers of God to... well, just why are you praying for us anyway?
And I truly doubt that ANY of you are actually going to pray for an atheist. You have better things to do, trust me. You could be contributing to the community, helping out a friend, volunteering someplace, fighting for a cause to help the world (all things Atheists do as well, because we don`t need a God to guide us in leaving a mark on the world) instead of wasting your time praying for an atheist. Because THAT`s a lost cause. Do something better with your time, please.
Even eating a sandwich would get more accomplished.
I cover my mouth when I meme around people; it`s just rude otherwise.
I`m in the mood for pizza.
blah blah blah blah God blah blah blah everyone that doesn`t agree with me is a moron blah blah blah blah
I don`t intend to change anybody`s beliefs by simply putting a post on IAB.com (however if I did, that would be awesome), but, I am just hoping to put a seed of doubt in somebody`s mind that God actually does exist, and maybe someday they would look to learn more about Him.
and i`m praying for you guys (whether you like it or not lol).
Still BIG Kudos to Buddy, 15 pages of argument over a mis-interpretation/inappropriate title of a 7 year old census study. Seriously, it`s like people were just WAITING to fight about deities.
Seriously though, interesting read. And true to the promise of the site, killed off my boredom.
If you`d like more of Einstein`s thoughts on religion and other things, check this website out: http://einsteinandreligion.com/. You`ll find his views are most consistent with the description for his "religious" I provided.
Also, here is the back story of the letter I mentioned: http://skeptically.org/thinkersonreligio...
Then perhaps you should refer to the post addressed to you on the previous page, page 13? You`re only half done.
wow i`m aghast, i think you and algore should go bowling
time is they key here, just a little clue, the "winner" writes your history
can anyone here help, brainwashing...anyone, i know i harp on this & global warming to the nth, although this definately supports the manchurian candidate part
i have goose bumps, this is kinda barbra streisand creepy
You can believe what he said or not, that is entirely your option. *I* would say you shouldn`t trust anything one person has said just because that one person said it. Einstein was a scientist and as such I would especially advise taking anything he said with reservation and doubt. We can trust his scientific work now only because it`s been peer-reviewed and accepted, whereas his opinions on God still remains in the realm of uncertainty and likely always will."
well overmann, that right there was a misinterpretation of what i said. I was merely making a comeback to what a person said. they were talking about how all christians are dopes, and that everybody who isn`t atheist and watnot was on crack or was stupid. i was just pointing out that einstein believed there was a god.
Thanks for wasting 5 minutes of my life. time to go somewhere else
Man this thread shows the many different personalities of I-A-Bers. Xp being the flame starter, with his ignorant comments, people who take this as a joke, the god (buddy), people who argue a lot, people who are ignorant to opinions, the i`m right you`re wrong atheists, the i`m right you`re wrong christians, watnot.
gota love the personalities
Prove it: reply to my postings that were addressed to you.
You are describing belief, which is fine as long as you can admit that that`s your sole justification for your religiosity, which is fine because I think you`ll find that`s precisely what atheists have been saying all along. There is no proof of God, only a belief in God that stems from the mind, the seat of all consciousness.
"I will pray for you guys..."
Please don`t, as scientific studies have indicated that praying for those who know they`re being prayed for will lower their state of well-being.
On another note, I notice you are very young (13-17). Tell me, what religious persuasion do your parents hold? Did you attend church as a younger child? Was it your parents` request that you attend church?
in the end, i think buddy is victorious. HE is the God of I-A-Bers
So if I wrote 67 books explain that god doesnt exist wouldn`t that mean he doesn`t exist (just the impression you`re giving me here)
Even if there r 66 books there are books called "fiction" meaning fake just cause you read it in a boook (or books in this case) doesnt mean it`s true Take harry Potter for example you r going to have one hell of a time convincing HArry Potter is real and he can do everthing he does in those books
Srry to rain on your parade honey but that would be this stuff called blood that you feel in your heart Cause your heart pumps said blood throughout your body keeping you alive by providing oxygen to vital parts of your body to fuel the cells that work in your body.
The simple answer to religion is this: Religious text was written by "man", no? Can you really trust your fellow "man" to lead you through the darkness?
Yes, please flame me, for leaving a logical post. And yes, by that old map, I live in the "godless" state of Washington. And I`ll leave on a slight note: Does faith make you a better person, or does religion close your mind? Let that stew in your head for a while... :-P
I agreed with your point, "i am soooo surprised i havnt seen one person say "shun the non-believer...shuuuuuuuuunnnnnnnnah".."
`the rest was my own`
One minor note that is bugging me, first. One never writes `a God` but rather either `God` or `a god`. The whole Holy Trinity thing really mucks up the works so to be safe, just write `a deity`. Saves the grammarians a bother. On to your point.
I do not consider the writings in the Bible to be evidence of anything other than man`s profound capacity for imagination. Nowhere in reading the Bible does one find an objective method for establishing the existence of God or any proof of God beyond that which can be deemed as opinion by consensus. Finally, I am not one to believe any concept or notion simply because a group of people were prolific in their description of this same concept or notion. To do so without substantial backing is insanity and unscientific.
With this in mind, disbelief in a deity through the Bible becomes natural.
hmm, books about santa...more than i can count
aliens, hmm...its claimed we have physical proof, thousands of people claiming to be eye witnesses. but yet...saying you believe in aliens is shunned by society.
but ur right, ur 50+ books written by biased source s (mostly the same guy), that arent meant to taken literally are 100% pure fact. but its ok, you said its obvious, so it definetly is.
and another thing...the church says "doubts are to be expected, but faith will see you through."
ur right, there are 50+ documents supporting the belief in god. but the problem is, those 50+ documents are not proven to be true.
im getting sick and tired of people saying "its obvious" one way or another. come on, your are NOT some religious expert, cuz if you were, you wouldnt be saying that!! if it was obvious, it would be obvious to every one.
there is no way to say for sure one way or another. and also, jesus said in the bible that the belief in god is not something that can be proven, why?? god doesnt want it that way, he wasnt people to have FAITH!!
its crazies that say its obvious that gives the religion argument the stigma it has. so stop
there are 66 books in the Bible. THE BIBLE IS NOT ONE BOOK. I don`t understand how you can doubt the existence of a God when there are that many documents of evidence. and yes, i did post almost this exact same thing earlier. But, basically, there`s not many things in History that we doubt the authenticity of when there are 50+ documents supporting them.
I`ll take that a bit further and say that whether or not Jesus actually performed miracles, assuming he even existed, cannot be proven or disproven. That a record from so long ago can be taken literally is unwise at best.
That`s all I`ve seen that needed addressing, which is to say that`s all I have time for. I would like to offer special praise to envyrain as she appears to have it all figured out. Kudos to you.
Anyone proclaiming to have proof that a deity exists or doesn`t exist is equally off his rocker. There simply is no evidence to support either conclusion, and any such argument isn`t actual proof but is instead just a rebuttal to a previous claim of God`s existence\non-existence.
Even while I don`t believe there is evidence either way, I am atheist because I feel it is wisest to assume a negative than to throw myself on a perceived positive. Scientifically speaking, if not enough evidence exists to support a hypothesis, we must by default reject that hypothesis until something better comes along. I feel the God question is inherently a scientific question that we simply lack the tools or even intellect to adequately answer, but that does not mean we lack the tools to address the question scientifically, as I have just demonstrated.
You can believe what he said or not, that is entirely your option. *I* would say you shouldn`t trust anything one person has said just because that one person said it. Einstein was a scientist and as such I would especially advise taking anything he said with reservation and doubt. We can trust his scientific work now only because it`s been peer-reviewed and accepted, whereas his opinions on God still remains in the realm of uncertainty and likely always will.
In the context of the Universe, yes, I am meaningless. The Universe will continue to accelerate in its expansion with no regard for the destruction and desolation such an act will eventually bring and I`ve absolutely no say in the matter. But you see, that also means I am free to define my own meaning. Personally I do not feel I am meaningless; I tutor at my college and that position enables me to help other students achieve what they want to, in essence fulfill their own meaning. I do not define helping others as the apex of my existence but at least it`s a worthy cause, one I assigned to myself.
I would hope someday you will recognize the difference and distinction between opinion and actual evidence. I can say that a banana is evidence of God and from that conclude God created the banana, but at heart is the *opinion* that a banana is evidence of God. Factually speaking, I could only correctly conclude that a banana is evidence of life and should stop there, because I can no more explain the origin of life and shouldn`t try to.
We are the end product of billions of years of chemistry. That`s it. We do not have any more specific reason for being here than certain elements having a natural electric attraction to other elements. And I think that if you looked at things in a grander perspective, what purpose does hydrogen serve? What purpose do stars serve? You`ll find there`s not much difference between understanding how things are caused (and what they in turn cause), and perceiving their purpose; these two notions are one and the same.
With all that said, I personally feel we are in control of whatever meaning we desire for ourselves and that this freedom is free for the taking. I`m overjoyed at the fact I am not here for any purpose (meaning) other than one I can assign myself, as living solely under some prearranged destiny or contract would just depress me.
I`m assuming by `world` you mean Earth, in which case you are wrong. The formation of the Earth (or any planet, really) was accomplished through a process known as accretion, where collections of rock debris in a common area (usually around a star) collide with one another and build upon each other. These rock parts collide because gravity places them in a common area and in the path of other rock parts; in essence, it`s no coincidence these rock parts are in a position to collide with one another. Is this indeed what you were referring to? If on the other hand you meant the whole Earth system as we know it today (biosphere and all), I`ll happily explain why evolution is not an accidental process and is actually rather directional and predictable.
Berthaballs: "u all need Jesus"
Nice tits, by the way.
caboose117: "Einstein DID believe a God existed, not a specific one, but he did believe there is a God."
No he did *not*. Einstein`s God is a substitute for the nature and rules of the Universe. When he said "God doesn`t play dice" he meant that the Universe does not surrender to chance and is perfectly caused and ordered. Here is a direct quote from Einstein in a letter he wrote:
"It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it."
this is the most retarded argument you can have on the internet
i am an atheist, personally i cannot understand how anyone can believe in a god that would send the majority of the world to eternal hell just for believing in a slightly diff god, or trusting evidence.
when religion doesnt affect people who dont believe all is good. sadly this isnt the case
i dont argue my case over the internet because its impossible to have such a discussion not in realtime. i also dont argue with anyone that doesnt want toplease just stop this worthless discussion: as stated above we all agree with eachother already!!
in real life this can be a very very interesting discussion.on the internet its JUST dratING RETARDED
blahblahblah Atheism blahblahblah
humans are emphatically retarded,sceaming religion is a silly belief while running off to support algore & his global warming socialism movement"
whoa whoa whoa, thats not what i said at all!!
i find no fault in religion. if you read my entire post, i said something along the lines of "it makes the world a better place" and "its a perfect way to make people behave".
so come on, dont misquote me.
How do we know that people like George Washington, Caesar, etc. lived? We read about them. We read about the things that they`ve done. We believe lots of historical figures existed because we have one or two documents that talk about them. There are SIXTY SIX different documents that were combined to make the Bible. All other figures in history who have that much evidence supporting their existence.....we just take it as fact. However, because all the 66 books were combined into one, people think one or two looneys just made it up.
if anybody wants to discuss this with me, shoot me an email at [email protected] because i don`t check this too much.
Seven: I don`t want to live my life knowing that I`m only a good person because I`m afraid of being set on fire by my deity. I want to live knowing that I am a good person simply because I choose to be.
These seven reasons are why I`m an atheist.
First off: There is no evidence for a god.
Second: Big Bang theory explains the beginning of the universe. Asking me what there was before the Bang is like me asking you what there was before God.
Third: There are so many religions, and none of them give any sort of proof.
Fourth: For all we know, the Bible was written by two drunks who wanted money. It`s 2000 years old, we have no idea.
Fifth: The Bible says some guy`s donkey talked. I think any sane person should be a little less likely to adhere to its dogma after reading that.
Sixth: Evolution. Evolution has been proven conclusively, just ask any biology teacher or professor. Or, just use the internet. `Thoery` is the closest term in science for fact. Now, why do I bring up evolution? Because it flies in the face of what is written in the Bible about God creating man and all the animals and crap.
At school we`re learning about things that completely contradict Christianity. Evolution, plate tectonics, formation of the Universe, and we accept those things as true. Why do people learn about this and believe something that states the opposite at the same time?
humans are emphatically retarded,sceaming religion is a silly belief while running off to support algore & his global warming socialism movement
choose your poison, understnd though, your still just a talking monkey
"Aaaww, they took my frikkin` kidney!!" >-(
I will play for you the Banjo. :-O
That is the greatest video ever. :)
And I agree with your "live and let live" approach.
i am soooo surprised i havnt seen one person say "shun the non-believer...shuuuuuuuuunnnnnnnnah"
and i dont take offence, im not a spiritual person in a religious sense, and im sure thats what you mean.
however, in the sense that a "spiritual compass" leads a person to do good, and live a life worth living: i dont believe religion is needed, i can be a good person without a god.
which actually continues my rant...
i used to be christian, and the whole religion (in a nut shell) says, be good, and you will be rewarded. and as far as i know, most religions say the same. and i do too, be a good person, and you will be rewarded in the end of your life with the satisfaction that you know youve left something good in the world. i still follow the 10 commandments. not because a god tells me to, but because i want to. i agree with them (with revisions such as, "gods name in vain" now meaning "dont speak ill of others").
You have earned my respect. I expect others should follow your example; whether they believe in God or not.
Once more, I take my leave. Goodnight.
i do believe that we all need to root our lives in something, and religion is perfect for that, but it wasnt for me.
religion helps people, and i think its great if people believe in god and better themselves through it, it makes the world a better place.
good evidence for god would be "the case for christ" by lee strobel. i have read the book cover to cover and it definetly makes good points.
As with just about everyone else; it seems they`d rather bash the person they claim non-existant, than to convice people to stop judging.
It seems only Panther managed to pass my test. Kudos. I have regained minor faith in those without a spiritual compass (no offense).
but yea, i just wanted to say, if youre looking to make a point, do so with good high quality evidence.
i do believe that we all need something to ro
thanks Aristotle i agree 100%
those of you talkin poo about believers only give people who dont believe a bad name, i mean...come on...why cant we just let people believe what we want to believe. i dont believe in god, if you dont like it, thats great, i hope what you believe makes you happy like what i believe does for me
But the frivolity of this whole argument in relation to the original post is cracking me up, I am compelled to say something.
The thing is, if you read the map, belief in God has nothing at all to do with it. The question is how many religious adherents belonging to the 149 "bodies" (churches?) that participated in the study. So, basically, belief in God has nothing to do with it, it`s just about either going to church or identifying with a specific religious group that happened to be participating in the study. Some area certainly have more people that identify themselves as being part of a religious group, but no where on the bit of evidence we were given does the question "who believes in God" come up.
Cleaver way to stir up debate though I-A-B mods, I tip my cap to you.
Which, I guess proves we live in our own version, or our own universes. If that is so, then why the hell am I arguing with a bunch of people I "created" just so I have something to talk about and whatnot?
I wanna try something out... :Wills the world to follow different rules:
...Crap. I guess I don`t know how to master my own domain yet. I need a spiritual hacker to debug the matrix, so I can understand it a little more. Anyone know where I can find a Linux with extra-dimensional hacking tools?
There, so yeah...Stop Arguing people, we are all atheists!
Soviet Union. Started the Cold War. The whole dang place was chock-full of atheists. (or at least led by them, religion was banned)
Who is a fascist? If you mean Bush, he is a long ways off from being a fascist. If you think otherwise, you are not very smart.
I have never blown up a building. Muslims haven`t either. The ones that blow up buildings follow a corrupt version of religion. Certainly not approved by other muslims.
I don`t hate gay people. I disagree with their lifestyle. I had two neighbors who were gay, they were some of the nicest people I`ve met.
Booze is bad for you anyway. :-/
Burn, internet, burn.
1) Maybe the education system is flawed? Universities and Colleges (in general) are very, very liberal and the majority of professors are athiest. The bible says that "if you think you are wise by this world`s standards, you have to become a fool to be wise by God`s standards"
2) Religious systems are also flawed, but it`s not God`s fault (or Jesus`s). I say they are flawed because many churches are letting few in and shutting themselves off from the rest of the world instead of going out there trying to help people.
Really, it all boils down to love. No dogmatic, systematic rules and regulations; it all comes down to love, because God=love
Here are some actual words of wisdom you learn in religion, that doesn`t seem apparent in any non-religious "culture".
"Judge not, lest ye be judged."
You spring the trap of making bad words towards religion, and judging it with uneducated crap; expect to get flak heading your way.
It`s you non-believers that stared this; not us. We`ll take no responsibility if war or lawsuits break out on these forums due to these riduculous "debates".
I`m not quite sure how to end this war... however, I do believe it`s a lot more complicated than either side would like you to believe with their victory/surrender rhetoric. I wish I had some answers to that whole problem. It`s just an awful mess of a situation with only bad and worse options thanks to our worst president ever.
Speaking of "worst evers" did anybody catch that new papal decree that every other religion asside from Catholicism is wrong and blasphemous?Yeah, that`s gonna go well in the Mideast.
Worst. Pope. Ever.
Why don`tr we come up with a solution to end this damn war, without either side conceding defeat, and without conversions on either side, and no more deaths?
Whatever happened to diplomacy?
On my part, perhaps "indicate" or "prove" would have been a better word to use as opposed to "imply".
You`re right, it shouldn`t be happening and it`s a damn shame it is. I personally don`t know how to stop them, so all I can do is live my own life and try to be better than them. I try not to force my own beliefs on others and shame them for what they believe. While I cannot personally do anything to stop what our leaders are doing, I have complete control over my life, so I do the best I can to set an example for myself and the others around me. :]
I hate our leaders. They only care for themselves and thier kind.
I call shenanigans.
Also, this is a really dumb debate.Person A: I believe in God.Person B: I don`t.Person A: You`re wrong and you`re going to hell!Person B: No, you`re wrong and you`re an idiot!
Come on guys, isn`t there something more interesting to be arguing about here?
"Obviously, it seems I`m talking to a bunch of people that never learned anything about anything."
Yeah, you`re just always right, are you not?We`re just all dumb and we don`t know anything. Learn to accept that just because people don`t agree with you, doesn`t mean that they`re wrong.If you really need purpose in your life, then make the world a better place. Then you have a purpose. And you don`t need some guy in the sky to tell you that. But if you really want to believe in him, go ahead. But we all don`t have to. Some of us are content with just exsisting.
It isn`t that big of a deal, anyway. I am a Pagan and my fiancee is a Christian. We get along perfectly, despite our difference in beliefs. We like having that difference, it`s more fun that way. I disagree with what he believes in, and he disagrees with me. With that, we get to talk and debate about things, and it brings us very close. He loves me, I love him. Religion means nothing in that.
I don`t understand why people feel like someone else`s belief system affects them. I mean, I can understand if you fight back when someone is hounding on you about what you believe, but it`s just pointless to hunt people down and try to shame over them over personal belief.
I honostly think our exsistance is nothing anyhow. We could all suddenly try to get along and be good, yet nothing on the world would change. If this whole planet would change, the galaxy wouldn`t. Even if the galaxy changed, the universe wouldn`t. Get what I`m saying? We`re all just grains of sand in the sahara desert....
If you don`t have some sort of guiding light, and you don`t follow any sort of instict. Then why the hell do you still exist? You`re not serving any purpose for anything, or anyone; and you`re definately not helping nature in any way whatsoever either. You don`t sacrifice, you gain without doing so; so that must mean you spontaneously existed one way or another.
Unfortunately, my own logic in that area perplexes me. Because where`s the equivalent exchange? By what means do you exist? What purpose do you serve? As well, in what methods of being raised have the person been subjected through to know anything? What trials and consequences have been encountered for the existance to hold meaning?
I mean... Eh?! :blinks repeatdly: What are you if not human then?
well you saying anything like that is starting a "war" in its own right. anything someone disagrees about can start and argument or fight whether it be religion or anything else. as soon as you started saying god doesnt exist you did exactly what you said you dont do
maybe you should think about what your saying before you make your argument
What are you guys? The next "Arian" race? Did Hitler ressurect himself and plague the entire west coast? I mean, what the hell? Okay, if you don`t believe in God, do you believe in Satan/Devil (AKA El Diablo)? Do you believe in demons?
If so, then what`s the polar opposite of that? Nothing can exist without a polar opposite. It`s theoretically impossible to exist without one.
That would make more sense about God being more a principality, than just a singular omnipotent being; plus, who`s to say that God doesn`t use his saints and angels to help run maintainence on the universe?
I mean, see everything as a hypercube (or tesseract; IE 4-dimensional block):
or a Tetradeca-7-tope (hepteract):
or a mythical unnamed 11-dimensional area:
If greater beings exist; they can do alot to us, and we wouldn`t even know they exist. You can see and touch alot of things, in that "small" a space.
Thus the complication to people who deny God`s existance; he may exist; but we can`t be sure whether he does
Maybe that`s why it`s been over 100 degrees here, we`re such heathens & hell has come to earth...:-D
Well, if noone`s going to join, or practice any religions; then at least learn and practice some friggin` spelling and grammar. No wonder there are so many people that don`t believe in God. They can`t read, let alone write properly; so they can`t understand the concept.
I`m taking on a logical standpoint on this now. I mean; ever notice just how many non-religious people can`t spell, or follow standard grammar rules? They`re pointless to debate with, because they don`t read or know how to research.
We`ve got crappy, rainy weather here on the east coast, and it`s 110* in Oregon. Talk about extremes.
As for the link, well, I see no evidence for a god at all. I don`t believe in things I don`t see any evidence for, thus I don`t believe in a god. If it helps someone else, fine. But don`t make laws based on your religion [gay marriage ban], and don`t try to convert me, or flame me, or attack me in any way, or I`m going to take the picket and fight back. That`s all there is to it.
I totally couldve of guessed theyd be on opposite ends of the spectrum
I said to them that Darth Vader was like satan, and how when luke showed that he cared for him, he became a good jedi. and they said, "hmm, never thought about it like that" and said that they would become a satanist.
it was awesome.
no gods for me, no sir!
Your link does nothing to prove anything. The statements are not at all referenced to their origin, or a way to double check them. It only fits the way YOU see the world. This is a poor example of a proof. It is the argument of a sophist. Look it up if you don`t know that word.
Since when was it evil to practice faith, or mention God; but if you insult Scientology or those that have no faith or belief in God or higher powers; you`re evil, and must be killed or sued? (I cite from the WTF about Issac Hayes AKA "Chef" leaving South Park because he made some cracks on Scientology, and left the show because he was ashamed of it. Yeah; like shooting flak at Christians and Catholics alike, as well as Bhuddists and just about every other faith, including Muslims, wasn`t shameful enough. You THEN, see the light after mocking a false religion based off a f***ing fictional book`s "religion". I hate people.)
Sorry, this circle is a roller coaster.
Just because you lack faith, doesn`t mean you cruicify those with it; and because you do have faith, doesn`t mean you hold all the answers. Not everyone believes, and not everyone pracitces faith the same way (reason why seperate religions exist; for those of differing methods).
Thanks to an episode of Futurama, we need a church of Amaglamated faith. (Amaglamated = combination of all forms into one united form); but I think it would just turn into the UR (United Religions; the cousin of the United Nations). But I think it would serve only an exclusively small amount of members, considering the lack of faith in the world as a whole.
Sorry, I was riding the edge of a circle there for a moment (going off on a tangent, for you non-nerds).
"Why don`t all atheists just kill themselves... (Death is inevitable, and time is infinite. To live 100 years is to live 0 years. Therefore, existence is futile. Literally. For those of you who have trouble with literacy, heres some math. If n < infinity and n / infinity = x, x = 0.)"
That`s not true at all. n / infinity has no meaning. Infinity is NOT a number; therefore, you can`t divide a number by it. If you mean, "the limit of x as y goes to infinity of n/y equals 0, then you are correct, BUT the function never actually reaches zero. Please, next time you tell me to kill myself, take a little calculus first.
God is an omnipotent being which cannot be proven to exist or not exist. End of argument.
I`m Catholic BTW, just so noone would jump me about it (though, considering the denisity of ignorant fools (again, I had to deal with quite a few in another topic), I think that`s unavoidable.).
No wonder most people don`t like me. They know somehow that I was born there.
California....ehhh not so much. xD
I didn`t know that my part of Michigan was so "godless" so to speak (too tired to use proper adjective or whatever o_o). It seems that everywhere I turn, someone`s like, "Accept Jesus into your heart! :-D".
I`ve been thought of as "sinful" in the past by others who were religious just because I`m an Atheist. I wasn`t sure if that was brought up in this thread but I didn`t feel like skimming through all 9 pages... :)
Did anyone say you were a sinner for not believing? I`m just wondering.
I`m happy that a lot of you do believe in God, but no matter what kind of "proof" you try and give an Atheist that there is God, an Atheist will always shoot down your attempt to do so.
We`re Atheists for a reason. We have already thought through all the possibilities of existence and decided that there is no reason to believe in God or follow organized religion. It doesn`t mean we`re all "sinful" people with absolutely no morals. It doesn`t mean we`re uneducated about the Bible. It just means that we live life as it`s presented to us in terms of science and human nature.
Atheists will probably never change their minds about what the believe and don`t believe. So stop trying to give us "proof that God exists".
And to all you "Atheists" that say that you`re not sure whether there is a God or not, you`re not an atheist. It`s called being Agnostic.
And second of all, ImNoGod, you cannot prove anything by quoting the laws of the universe. Just because there are laws does not mean there is a law-giver. Of course, there is no proof that there ISN`T a law-giver, either. However, do not tell me that to *IMPLY* something is to prove it. Any person schooled in science will tell you that implications are by no means conclusive, substantive proof.
For instance, earlier I implied that 0AmY0 was ugly, by suggsting that if she looked in a mirror, it would break. I have absolutely no proof, but implying it doesn`t necessarily mean it was true...
Oh, and that reminds me, 0AmY0, I wanted to ask you: Why are you acting all hurt when you were the one who told XP to shove it up his ass in the first place?
oh man, there`s a lot of anger.i`m about as antireligious as they come. but i`m not against god. you can`t prove one way or the other.
but, for religious people, God if he created man gave him a brain. i think it would be highly disrespectful to not make full use of it and swallow anything whole before analyzing it yourself.and for christians (not all, just the ones throwing angry comments), there are really col bibles that have anything that Jesus said highlighted in red.read all the red text and ignore everything else.
and to the atheists (which for lack of a better term i usually refer to myself as) what good does it do to slam people of faith.nothing proves/disproves god.by all means, fight against silly dogma that can be harmful to people or their liberties, but there`s no reason to be an non-nice individual.it`s not helping your fight, and ironically, i`ve seen too many wannabe atheist martyrs.
please don`t flame me, i love you a
In the universe we have laws. Let`s say I toss my pen into the air. Naturally it will come to a turning point from rising, to falling. The descent, is caused by gravity. The universe is held together by laws such as these. With out laws, the universe could not exist.
Well laws my friends, Imply there is a law giver.
But then places around the Gulf coast seems to be more religiously based, despite, historically, containing a plethera of other cultures.
Don`t start something else!
Thank you, Big. Thank you very much!
Now I`m going to go give God another three or four reasons to send me to hell...
And I`m happy too, and I actually have a boyfriend, and I didn`t need God at all to get here! In fact, when I was Christian, it only made me depressed and morose!
So, if the fact that you`re happy proves God`s existence, why is it I can be happy without God?
Oh and about the weather. It`s cold here :P :(
You have not helped my opinion of fanatics at all, whether or not you are one.
And 0AmY0, I thought I WAS making fun of the less fortunate. I don`t know you personally either, but you sure are fun to insult. You know why I insult you? Because you decided to insult somebody who was much more intelligent than you in the first place.
Oh, and haven`t you ever heard that song "Life is Like High School"? Because its true. Nobody ever really grows out of insulting other people (as evidenced by IAB posters) or gossiping, or anything like that.
I am not heartless. I love many things, and many things love me. I just don`t love you. Ignorant? No, I`m very well-educated and very smart. 1420 on SATs, and 33 on ACTs, if you want to know.
Immaturity will never be outgrown by the majority of people...
I was just stooping to your level for a minute to say something you might have understood.
You are also right...leave the teasing for school. We should be more reasonable than that...But you also shouldn`t call sunnysongbird a "heartless, ignorant person." Don`t bring yourself down to someone elses level.
unless the religion is about a god bent on the genocide of all humanity that is not part of that religion. then i think it`s pretty bad
and i believe this chart probably isn`t the most accurate, but i think you guys can do what you want
I told you that I understand that certain things from the Bible (especially from the Old Testament) can be proven...
What I was asking for was your "thousands" of instances where things could be proven, applied to the NEW Testament, because that`s the one I have a problem with...
And you couldn`t tell me one.
I said maybe for a reason... I myself have nothing better to do than this... And I freely admit it, 0AmY0.
And now I hope I`ve killed the religious debate here...
I must say one more thing and leave -
" So maybe we should all just leave the comments page and do something with our lives???"
It took you how long to realize this?
My point proven once again. Goodbye.
I don`t. I was merely insulting you. And you spelled intelligence wrong, but at least you didn`t use Internet-speak this time...
But I detest internet-speak. It gives me a headache to read it, and even the smallest "ur gonna die!" makes me cringe...
I can`t help it. I speak four languages, and nowhere have I ever seen one more mutilated than English is on the Internet...
Every single religion ever believed in by humans did not exists at one point. Evey single religion had a point in time where no one on earth had even heard of it... then some human came along and invented it.
For Christians there was Jesus, for Jews there was Abraham, for Mormons you have Joseph Smith, Islam as Mohammed, 7th Day Adventists have E.G. White, for Jehovah`s Witnesses there is Charles Taze Black Muslims have Wallace D. FardRussell even the idiots at the Church of Satan have Anton LaVey`s weird ass.
I could go on and on but there are hundreds and I`m not gonna list them all here. The point is, if you believed in any religion, you are shaping your entire life around a magical invisable wizard just because a few thousand years ago some random looney said you should... D U M B, Dumb.
StphnHrrll, I appreciate yor thoughts, and merely offering my own opinion as if anybody cares- I don`t think that it is hard to believe our world came together by "coincidence," considering that there are billions of galaxies and planets. It seems as though it is just an act of probability that at least one such planet would put together the ingredients necessary to develop and sustain life.
Not a single word conclusively proven wrong, hmmm?? Well, that`s fine, I`ll give you that, because its nearly impossible to prove myths wrong. For that matter, I`d like to see how you could prove to me that my belief in the fact that Zeus is among the stars, watching us, waiting to unleash his next lightning bolt down on us is wrong...
And where is the proof for the Bible?? Yes, historians regard it as a treasure trove becuase it does document several older kings and such in the Old Testament, but as far as the New Testament, show me how you prove that water turned to wine, or that the fish and the two loaves fed 5000, or that Lazarus was raised... I really want to see that.
And then learn how to spell.
the word faith can have more than one definition.
i dunno if i should really take this debate seriously : / i didn`t know people were so biased and loved all em stereotypes
i don`t see why we`re debating so much on IAB...
when you yourself gave input into the debate not 5 comments ago, don`t you think?
Yeah, that title was misleading...
I mean, my neighborhood had three Mormon churches within one square quarter-mile!
*sigh* if anybody is going to take over the world, its them... They`ve got a hive-mind, I know it!
Interesting, no? I thought so.
Oh, and for those who can take a joke, check out mrdeity.com... Very great skits based on the Christian belief system...
Human beings congregate towards water, whether that be oceans, rivers, etc. A body of water is a catalyst for civilization, as water can be used to transport goods, water fields (in the case of rivers/lakes), and so on and so forth.
It has also been shown that the more civilized a group of people is, the less faith overall they have. Yes, it has something to do with education, it also is related to technological advances (if we can figure this out on our own, why do we need >insert deity`s name< to help us?) and overall better self-sufficiency.
I am actually not surpised, because people tend to put their faith outside of themselves when they are not someone anyone should put faith in.
And before anyone goes bitching... I used the United States Education Departments reports for 2006-2007 and 2000-2001."
I believe you`re insulting us believers, but if you want to know, Einstein DID believe a God existed, not a specific one, but he did believe there is a God. So you`re saying we can`t believe what Einstein says now?
Anyway . . . I, myself believe in intelligent design, as I don`t think something this huge could happen solely by evolution and all.
But that`s just me.We all have a choice to do and think what we want to believe. And I know, that I probably am not right in my beliefs, but that`s okay. Because we have free speech. And as long as we`re keeping it on an intellectual level, and not too absurd, then I think it`s great.
If you say the _lack of evidence_ is evidence, you are wrong. And dumb. If you say your holy book is evidence, I ask you what about person B`s holy book which contradicts yours and which also declares to have the unassailable, absolute truth.
The only logical thing to do is to ask ourselves, individually what makes the most sense, and to act upon that. Whether our answer leads us to believe in the supernatural or not, by relying upon our reason, and our reason alone, we will come to good conclusions. [/quote]Though i believe in god, i agree with you all the way.
It`s not a matter of thinking differently. If someone said they think red is the best color in the universe, then that`s fine. I can observe red by its wavelength, and for whatever reason it causes them enjoyment to wear it, see it, etc.
Now, delusions, crazy ideas, and nonsense...I can`t respect that. If a child believed something insane, then I`d have to help the child realize that it`s wrong, so the child will not grow up to believe in a delusion.
The same goes for adults. Essentially, religion is the adult`s imaginary friend, and I find it very dangerous.
Yea, but the correlation between education and religion actually contains merit and, although are not directly dependant, show a strong relation. Mainly because most of education is based on science and math which do not make leaps of faith of blatantly ignore facts to support their claims, which religious fundamanetalists often do. (I use fundamentalists becaue not all theists follow blindly.)
And as for your labeling of me and others who argue agaisnt religion as atheists. I adementally believe in the presence of God but despise religion. Religion is not created by God, but created by man, which is why most of religion is crap.
The belief in God does not ignore science and/or fact... but religion does.
So you think yourself better than a believer since you don`t require that support?
I never said that...and I don`t think non-believers are better than believers in any way. I was just saying that God is what you want him to be and that can be a good thing. You don`t have to be a religion to believe in "god" and it can be a good thing for people..to have some hope and stuff like that.
I always find it funny how when religion is brought up, everyone goes flying off their handle bars! Everyone can state their own opinions, but that doesn`t mean you should attack that other person for thinking differently.
Thank you for all the people who leave nice comments and remain peaceful. After all...isn`t that what religions for?
You can link the increase in global temperature to the drop in number of pirates if you want. The correlation is there. It doesn`t mean it`s true.
You know all these philosophical tools you learn about to defend atheism and talk about how clever it is, why do so many of you fail to apply any of these philosophical arguments to any other aspects of your lives?
Why blurt out philosophical catchphrases like:"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.""Flying Spaghetti Monster"."Invisible Pink Unicorn". "Proof denies faith".
Etc, all pulled directly from text when you can`t apply the MEANING of any of those to your own thoughts and ideas?
If you don`t know the reasoning behind the catchphrases you`re using all you`re doing is following other people because you have blind-faith in their logic, not your own. So why the self righteousness?
From Dictionary.comDefinition 2: A specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.
There`s also a direct correlation with annual rainfall.
Well, it`s not that strong, but if I wanted to believe it I could make a strong case for it.
Again, you`ve displayed your ignorance of history.
You must be unaware that the Bible is made of several genres, some histories to be read as such, some allegories, some poems, and an apocolypse (a genre).
If you want to debate the Bible, I`d suggest taking a look at Calvin, Luther, Sproul, Piper, and a host of others before you open your mouth & insert your foot.
Thats cool, I was just wondering if I was correct in my understanding of where Buddhism stands in the realm of belief systems.
From what I understand of Buddhism, is that it isn`t a religion but a philosophy. please correct me if I`m wrong.
I don`t believe in god. No one knows if god exists or not. Do I think god exists? No. Could god exist? Sure, along with the Flying Spaghetti Monster and the Invisible Pink Unicorn. I also don`t believe in spirits, ghosts, demons, angels, magic, and other mythical nonsense. It`s the 21st century, and it`s okay not to be religious. Being skeptical is a GOOD THING. Yay Atheism! WOOT : )
I must say, I`m pleasantly surprised, though: I thought the comment sparking the debate would be political in nature, not theological. I`m glad to see that not every issue has been reduced to blue and red.
And before anyone goes bitching... I used the United States Education Departments reports for 2006-2007 and 2000-2001.
The Bible is a historical document, not a source of historical information.
I`m all for an intelligent debate, but at least bring something to it.
If you`d do a little textual scholarship, you`d see how wrong you are.
And I believe that people who use the Bible as any sort of evidence are stupid. It`s a f*cking book full of allegories, not a scientific or even historic textbook! (But don`t misquote me, reading the Bible doesn`t make you stupid--It`s believing in God for no other reason than "The book says he exists, so he must".)
i believe it is ok to share your beliefs, and even to encourage others to do the same. but there is a major difference between "I want to show you this" and "YOURE GUNNA DIE, FAG! READ THE BIBLE!"theres no need to be extreme, yes, but that doesn`t mean everybody needs to sit on their hands and keep away from each other.