Log in with a social network:
Log in with your username or email:
More problems with socialized health care are that it eliminates the incentive for excellence that only capitalism encourages and reduces overall quality of health care due to the inevitable increase in doctor visits and number of patients. Plus, we have the problem of illegal immigrants leeching off our system, a problem that would be exacerbated by nationalization of the health care industry.
Strange how that goes.
I`m pointing out how rich people can`t spare a penny for the poor.
Guess that`s what separates liberals and conservatives.
And who, pray tell, does not deserve to be healthy?
I`m all for socialized health care, having grown up in the German health care system in my youth. America has so much potential but it`s wasted on the pursuit of superfluous profit and at heart a `me` mentality. A lot of the problems with the American health care system can be readily fixed by removing health care from the grips of the private sector, capping doctor salaries (excess can go back into the system as opposed to being spent on that summer home in Connecticut), and capping malpractice law suit claims.
For those of you wondering why so many of us abhor the idea of nationalized health care, here it is:People have certain rights. The right to not be murdered, the right to defend oneself, the right to control over one`s possessions, etc. Rights of one person end where another`s begin. No one has a right to anything that already belongs to someone else.
Do you know what that means? No one has a right to anything that someone else must provide. That means there is no right to health care. After all, health care is provided by doctors and paid for (in a socialized universal health plan) by taxpayers. Forcing doctors to work amounts to slavery, and taking money from others to give to people they don`t know (and who probably don`t deserve it) amounts to theft. Both are violations of basic rights.
Both sides want the most money possible, so doctors and hostpitals drastically overcharge for all their services, fully knowing that they wont get that full amount from the insurance companies who are trying to cut costs.
But those who dont have top notch healthcare are having to pay those outrageous fees.
As for why drugs cost so much, its because the clinical trial process takes so much money and time, mostly because pharm companies use paper to track everything. If they moved over to PDE, EDC, eSafety, and Analysis tools throiugh computers (they slowly are), the process will get much cheaper and drug cost lowers.
Anyone who wants more info on this, check out companies like DataLabs (bought out my ClinPhone), Phase Forward, and Relsys (disfunctional but really good safety and trend analysis company).
fyi, I work in pharmaceuticals and health services.
We live in society based around money, sad as it is, thats that. As for those who want to have national healthcare, move. Simple as that. The taxes I paid in Canada and the UK far outweighed the services I receieved. I would much rather be here and paying for my higher plan.
But that was awesome.
The system should be set up as kerry said. Have the more well off pay more taxes, and let the poor pay less taxes. That way 18,000 people still have their lives.
Just think of how you would feel if your mom or dad died, because they did not have health insurance and they died of something rare like a brain tumor when their only complaint was that they just had frequent hedaches. Now you are a child without your mother for the rest of your life.
Also many people cannot simply afford health insurance. It is so damn expensive in america, its either paying your rent or paying paying for your health.
It should be a countries duty to provide for their citizens instading of starting false wars.
More proof that it`s time to redesign our future.
And you morons think it`s a good idea to add socialized medicine on top of that?
Are you trying to destroy the economy? Do you even know what "economy" means?
I haven`t seen SiCKO, mostly because I can`t stand any of Moore`s craptastic documentaries, but also because I don`t believe in watching a documentary with a political agenda.
The way I look at it, there are four types of people in America when it comes to health insurance: those who are rich enough to easily afford it, those who are smart enough to find a job that offers it, those that receive government help (poor people, old people, disabled people), and those inbetween poor and middle class who can`t get it.
There are a lot of nice things about socialized health care, but there are plenty of nasty things about it. Rather than write 80 million replies about it, you really should look up facts, or at least read arguments from both sides.
However, please, PLEASE don`t praise Moore. Ugh...
Okay, I understand your feelings there, but... This is a give and take situation. You aren`t the only one getting healthcare. You break your nose, everyone else is "Responsible" for that, via their taxes. However, anyone in that "everyone else" who gets injured a year later, is then returned the favor because you`re paying your taxes.
It’s not a matter of fairness it’s a matter of ethics. Doctors take an oath to “do no harm”. That includes refusal to treat a person simply because they don’t earn enough. It’s also not a matter of CEO’s not getting good treatment, it’s a matter of everyone getting the kind of treatment that only people like CEO’s can currently afford. Health care isn’t a consumer product or a luxury item. It’s a basic necessity. Try telling a kid that he or she can’t be treated because their parents can’t afford insurance. Try telling the volunteers that helped clean up ground zero after 9/11 that they can’t afford treatment for their subsequent respiratory illnesses because they aren’t officially city employees and thus aren’t covered by the city workers health plan. Sure other systems have their flaws but the benefit that America has going into this is that we can study those systems and avoid
Now on the other hand, I firmly believe that hospitals, clinics, and doctors should make a profit, otherwise why in the hell would they bother to go through years and years of school? America is a capatilist economy, which means you either make money, or you go out of business. So next time you want to yell at someone for the price of getting better, look towards your fellow Americans (where it applies) and see what they are awarding at Malpractice trials. Most doctors will have to pay $50,000+ a year on premiums. :(
Way to call the kettle black fat ass. I thought for sure his waddled neck would explode he was so pissed.
On that same note, I would rather pay an arm to choose who does my life threatening surgery than have to be on some list and get some moron to do my surgery. Besides the only people who don`t have insurance or healthcare here in the states are poor people and to be honest they don`t deserve it. Don`t work zero benefits.
As for your other comment about is "re-enactment" of the history of slavery. do you really think all the history of slavery could be summed up in a 3 min cartoon? As for your last other statement about doctors. Errr WHAT? Everybody does something to earn money. We all have mortgages. I`ve never met a rich doctor...The 2 doctors I know (and several nurses) got into medicne for one reason only. To HELP people and save lives. I`m pretty sure that how all doctors start. It may change along the way but thats the first step (well..not for nurses..they never get paid enough). Ask any doctor over here in the UK where the real money is and its medical research...DRUGS to be exact. Companys can make billions for developing and patenting new drugs. So think about that..oh..and please, whilst your at it, just check out which of your politicians are funded by pharmaceutical firms..you might want to check out the ones in cahoots with the oil companys too. Dont take my word for i
Wrong answer! Totally and utterly wrong answer. Your thinking "me" instead of "us". Dont get me wrong. I couldnt care less about America`s healthcare. Its not my healthcare. But I do care about more than myself. If america had a similar system to ours, things are bound to be better for you. the problem is exactly how you see it. Its "my" responsibility to look after "me". There may come a point when you can do that anymore. Insurance for an individual has a cut off point...something he acctually discusses in depth in the movie. What if you have insurance to the best you can afford but you get totally mangled in a hit and run. What if your medical bills come to close to $500`000 but your insurance only covers half of that. He is after a better system that is fair to all. >>
Again I can`t say with the new flick, I haven`t seen it...but I want to.
On another note...why are people so shocked that doctors become doctors to make money, and taxing them becaseu they make all that money is wrong...the earn their money...they don`t owe me any of it.
In California Arnold proposed a modification to the health care system and to help pay for it doctors, nurses, and hospitals would be taxed a small amount. The whole medical profession revolted against this proposal, which is disgusting in itself. Some people in my family work as doctors and dentists and I know for sure they make more than $200,000 a year. I know not all doctors make that much but a good number do in California.
Furthermore, no one is mentioning the whole implementation of a free health plan. The US has over 300 million people compared to Germany at about 82 million, France at 64 million or even Sweden at 9 million. Also, the US population is much more heterogenous and there is sure to be some backlash among cultures.
The current system is bogged down with too many frivolous lawsuits and attorneys with clients looking for an easy buck.
And Michael Moore is a tool.
...(Which shouldn`t be so high that it practically brakes them.) Nothing comes without a price, and that includes freedom. But I`m not going to get into the subject of the War. Unfortunately medical help comes at a huge price. My opinion is that medical care shouldn`t be free, but it should be much less expensive depending on your current status. (Doctors need to be payed or they wouldn`t be doing it.)
But now think of this: Maybe the reason that you can`t pay for it is because you weren`t ready for the world and you thought people were just going to take care of you so you didn`t try at all and you just got yourself into this. In that case do you really deserve the discount prices? If you had a good healthy job but lost it somehow then that is a different story. But I don`t want to pay for someone`s health care if they didn`t deserve it, but that`s what would happing in national health care.
Think about That.
If I have missed anything please tell me, but don`t be ru
And my family is still paying the bills. It is becoming a real burden, but until something massive happens we have to pay those bills. Now imagine if we didn`t have to pay those bills. Those expenses would be incorporated into taxes and other fees. The government would find a way to charge us. Now think of those families who are struggling as it is. If their taxes are raised then what happens to them? If they were barely making it, then they wouldn`t be making it at all anymore. (Of course this depends on the rate of the tax, but you can`t deny that it would make it even harder if not impossible.) There are a lot of people out there who are barely making it or not making it at all. So if taxes were raised then what would happing to them? So in the light of this, my opinion is that hospitals should keep the patient stable until there are background checks on financial status and insurance status to decide what they should pay...
Part 3 below
(No comments on this until done
Time for an opinion that gives credit to both sides:
I think Michael Moore (MM From now on) has some very good points although there are some flaws in National Health Care. First of all, of course CNN was being bias, all news media is. It`s practically their job. Now on to National Health Care. I do agree with MM when he says that "when It comes to taking care of people, it shouldn`t be about profit." That is completely true. Prices of getting medical help are outrageous, and I can`t think of why. Why should it cost $60,000 to get the tip of your finger back on when you can drive perfectly fine without it in the new car you just bought with that money? But it`s not only the procedure, you also have to pay for the medications that they give you and there is an entrance fee and a boarding fee and blah blah blah. It`s freaking crazy. I think it was three years ago that my sister broke her arm at the elbow.
Part 2 bel
edit: in b4 flamewars (there was ALMOST one above!)
And rather than repost i will respond to the clip.
CNN did lie. I`m a Brit. I get free healthcare. Yes I pay Tax. Acctually..to be honest we call it national insurance rather than TAX which is divied up between health care and other benefits (such as child or welfare). The payment is a minimal...tiny..its a very small percentage of your pay packet. So should you be injured, ill, out of work...your not just left out to rot. Its not a perfect system but damn is it better than yours..CNN talked crap. The system works as well as can be expected which in my case has been very well. I get into an accident..I`ll be ok..it wont cost me thosands i cant afford. I lose my job..to a point I`ll be helped till I get employment again..etc etc. Its system that suffers abuse from some but that happens to everything now.
So rather than calling him an ass and a liar..why dont you get some hard facts